/jp/ - Otaku Culture

>>2451516
...Why meaningless?
Different events and circumstances lead to a different person.
It's not like each routes continues of the previous one.

Shinji is the best written character in F/SN.

>thus making his implied redemption in UBW ending totally meaningless

Shirou says he's acting more like the old Shinji.
So, when he still thought he was gonna be a magus and learn the ways of the Matou Shinji, not the can't be a magus so I'll rape my sister Shinji.

Shinji is a faggot and I'm disappointed that Shirou could never kill him with his own hands.

Shinji would have been a better protagonist than Shirou

>>2451521
Well obviously not meaningless IN-universe, but as far as presentation goes. I suppose Fate Stay Night's route order has always just pissed me off. You had a formula with Tsukihime Nasu! You start with an intro route, reach LOL GRIMDARKness in the middle, and end with a totally awesome route with an insanely happy ending! ...Basically I just feel UBW should have been the last route.

We all now that he's a gigantic delusional faggot. Think of him as an /a/ level shounen faggot who suddenly gets his hands on some power-up.

>>2451534
I too hope for a VN where you act like the biggest dick possible and try to avoid the resulting bad ends that will follow.

>>2451537
No, not really.
Besides, the fate of Shinji ranks somewhere 19th in the scale of importance.

F/SN is mostly about Shirou and his growth when it comes to characters, and the order presented is appropriate.

He has half a sense in the everyday life part of the story and half in the grail war part, he's supposed to be one of the many bridges between the two (the others being Sakura and Rin).
Also, Shirou and Shinji's friendship is one of the things Nasu did well, avoiding most cliches that are frequent in japanese fiction.

>>2451550
Yeah, I know that's why it's in that order (and I wasn't just talking about Shinji, UBW is the happiest/ most awesome all around except for Ilya). It's just something that annoyed me when I played this right after finishing Tsukihime.

>>2451547
It's not playing as Shinji, but the protagonist of Virgin Roster: Shukketsubo is a pretty big scumbag.

>>2451547
There is one translated sex romp from ZyX starring mc as girls raping school teacher on a rampage. Can't remember the name ;_;

>>2451562
And the only 'Bad ends' are ending up with one girl he rapes REGARDLESS of your choices or making a teacher a drug addict.

>>2451562
>It's not playing as Shinji

BUT THEN HOW WILL IT SATISFY MY NEED FOR TYPE-MOON

I think in some side material or other, Nasu mentioned that they had planned on a route where Shirou cooperated with Shinji and we would have seen a bit more of his "good side".

However, obviously it went the way of the Illya route. Goddamn it, Nasu.

>>2451643

Tiger Dojo.

>>2451643
The amount of ideas that did not get implemented, or barely entered production phase and then cut off would make the story DOUBLE in size.
What to do?

>>2451643
Damn, I want a Shinji bro route almost as much as the Illya route.

>>2451658

Make Fate/Stay night expansion packs.

>>2451653
They mentioned it there too, but there was one of the side material books where they said a liiittle bit more about it.

Shinji really seemed like the type of guy who deserved redemption. He only treated Sakura as garbage because she really was less than useless.

>>2451662
I want a route where all you do is strangle him to death more than any remake of any game ever.

>>2451653
I think it's universally agreed that Rider, Taiga, Ilya, or Caster routes would have all been acceptable substitutes for Heaven's Feel. In an ironic twist, if we had gotten all of those we'd just be bitching about not being able to fuck Sakura.

A Shinji route? Don't know if want.

>>2451674
...Yeah, sure.

>>2451674
I probably would have actually disliked Shinji if he had been repeatedly abusing one of the other heroines instead.

As it was, I was kind of just like "well, it IS just Sakura..."

They should have replaced Sakura with Ilya for the last route. Sakura is shit.

>>2451685
I doubt it. She has an annoying voice and her breasts are too big.

>>2451685
Taiga route is pointless, and Caster is one of the few that apparently was not planned at all even at the days when Shirou had a ginorums harem..

And HF is still damn good for a Sakura/Ilya hybrid, only regret is no Ilya romance at all.

>>2451692
Well amusingly, Ilya does make quite clear that most of the other routes got dropped because Heaven's Feel took so long more than anything else.

>>2451685
>Rider
maybe
>Taiga
comedy relief character
>Caster
maybe
>Ilya
only one that would work

>>2451701
Except I don't mean amusing, I mean clusterfuck bomb inducing.

ITT: People too stupid to go on breathing without constant reminders.

>>2451701
Well, the other two routes were already pretty damn big, and HF was forming to be bigger, so they dropped a route and made a mix for a big final one.

>>2451705
Thanks, man, I knew there was something I was forgetting to do...

Better yet they should have made Ilya the main heroine and Sakura the side heroine for HF.

>>2451705
>You like a character I don't like so you must be bakas.

>>2451706
Except nobody ended up really liking Heaven's Feel, at least not compared to Unlimited Blade Works. I here more bitching about Heaven's Feel than anything else in FSN. Though... Nasu IS a troll, so maybe that was part of the point.

>>2451705

<--Well at least we got HA.

>>2451735
And speaking of pure win.

ITT: worthless characters

>>2451730
HAHAHA, no.
People complain a lot for EVERY route, and /jp/ is not the only demographic.

An people liking a route a bit more=!not liking another.

>>2451741
I still don't really understand why she has so many fans.

>>2451741
Who are you again?

>>2451735
I just know that Rider is gonna make me cum barrels.

>>2451741
YOU DOUBLE NIGGER, YOU DIDN'T JUSTFFFFFFFFFFF

>>2451743
>>2451743
But /jp/ is the only demographic that matters to those on /jp/, and even then only a little. Aside of bitch tears over the whole Ilya and Berserker thing I've never heard anything but "FUCK YEAH UBW" about UBW. And I've never heard ANYTHING about Fate.

>>2451730
Funny, its seems all the rage nowdays

>>2451747
What little you see of her is likeable and she's not around enough to outstay her welcome. That's generally why people like side characters.

>>2451747
The same reason Arihiko has fans. We only see a little and it's awesome.

>>2451741

Where the fuck is my Ayako route Nasu?

You gave that worthless slut, Sakura one. I think it's about time another worthless side character gets one.

>>2451761
Well, you must not have been here a lot for 'Crying emo archer', 'Rin is bland', 'Stereotypical violent tsundere even if she doesn't do anything violent', 'Caster was boring', 'Last battle sucks' yadda yadda.

Or 'Saber is boring and bland, suddenly Ilya is good, how come', 'shitty fights', 'Shirou is a misogynist idiot ONLY and nothing else matters'.

We have just OVERDISCUSSED this stuff.

And a good number of complaints for HF are not actual arguments about the quality of the route, but shit like 'Are Sakura and Shirou Evil', 'Should have been Ilya route', 'Is she a slut' etc.

>>2451747
Hawk like stare?
>>2451790
Got canned.
They run out of direction.

>>2451791
The quality of the route?

It created huge plot holes all over the place. There's nothing to discuss about the quality.

>>2451800
...No, unless you are an idiot.

>>2451791
>We have just OVERDISCUSSED this stuff.
D-does this mean that eventually we'll stop having DAILY DOSE "is Sakura evil" debates too?!

>>2451804
They stopped being daily long ago.

The end of the year 09 was all about how awesome HF had been.
ILYA + SAKURA + KOTOMINE = BEST ROUTE IS BESTEST

>>2451800

>It created huge plot holes all over the place

Point them out, please.

"pieces about the plot I don't like" =/= plot hole.

>>2451790
In the pile of unused ideas with everything else.

>>2451809
You mean 08 perhaps?

>>2451773
Her interactions with Shirou and Rin were pretty interesting, especially with Rin; there's so much sexual tension between them that you could cut it with a knife.

There's also Rider's stalker crush on her.

>>2451811

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

>>2451810

Shiro knows about the effects of Rule Breaker.

>>2451816
>>>Rider stalking Mitsuzuri
HURRY UP WITH THAT DAMN PATCH AMUKUNAU!

>>2451822
When Shirou sees a fucking sword, he records it's history, effects, abilities and techniques that belonged to the fucking hero who used the weapon and not the weapon itself.

And he sees Caster holding it.
Do the math.

>>2451809

Surprisingly, /jp/ was bitching about how terrible the route was in October and November. Then some random guys showed up and all of a sudden HF is the best.

Now /jp/'s just mellowed down, and most of us can come to a consensus that UBW is the best. Or that SHiro is an idiot. It's a win/win either way.

>>2451822

Shirou can analyze weapons just by looking at them.

Though he didn't realize its effects in a heartbeat, he was dangerously aware of its powers in the Fate route, too.

>>2451832
So he knew he was Archer when he saw Kanshou and Byakuya, then?

Damn! Why didn't he tell us?!

>>2451836

Ah, my mistake. I haven't played the Fate route in so long I've been slowly forgetting this shit.

>>2451838
Shirou is aware of his status as a visual novel protagonist. He knew just blurting out such a twist would cause the rest of the route to be boring for the audience.

>>2451836
No, he wasn't. He saw that Caster didn't seem to be fearing for her life and caught on to the fact that something was up.

Also, Zouken. Explain him. Not only is it almost certain that he hadn't been created as a character with Fate and UBW were written, seeing as how signs of his existence are shaky and seem to have been pasted in as an afterthought, but his decision to take action came out of nowhere and could not have possibly been the result of Shirou's different actions.

Archer. He acted like he knew exactly what the Shadow was at one moment and only had some vague idea the next.

Zouken again. He was deathly afraid several times even though later revelations made it so that he should not have been afraid at all.

I can go on.

>>2451838
He knew of the skills and craftsmanship, but the sword doesn't reveal WHO the hero was.

Also, Shirou figures it much sooner than you'd expect, but not that early.

>>2451840
...It's emphasized in UBW and HF, mostly, in Fate it's only shown somewhat with Caliburn.

>>2451860
When Fate and UBW were written, even.

>>2451860
1: It's a combination of both.
2: Shinji doesn't lose immediately, so he doesn't emerge.
Like Archer, he looks for an opening, but he is not FORCED to appear eitherway.
3: He has fought pure manifestations of evil as a Guardian.
What he has a vague idea of is what CAUSED it to appear this time.
4: Losing most of his worms in one fell shoop, or True Assassin or Sakura(she is not almighty after all) would be a problem, no matter what.

>>2451860

>Archer. He acted like he knew exactly what the Shadow was at one moment and only had some vague idea the next.

He met it as a Counter Guardian (there is at least one world in the Kaleidoscope where Angra Mainyu comes out alive and angry), and decided "let's not let on that I'm a Counter Guardian". In short, he lied.

>Also, Zouken. Explain him

Shinji splortched in Fate and Shinji got Gilgamesh in UBW. When Shinji failed but didn't die, he came onto the stage. However awkward that appearance was doesn't matter.

>Zouken again. He was deathly afraid several times even though later revelations made it so that he should not have been afraid at all.

Acting.

>I can go on.

Please, do.

>Acting.

Fuck, I'd have him in my movies any day.

>Zouken again. He was deathly afraid several times even though later revelations made it so that he should not have been afraid at all.


SO yeah Zoken.

I can't believe he said he didn't have any plans for Sakura when he totally did.

What a plothole, right guys?

>>2451917
THAT...LIAR!
HE LIED!
DAMN!

>>2451935
A five hundred year old madman with a body made of worms that devour human beings lying?

Why I never.

>>2451899
>He met it as a Counter Guardian (there is at least one world in the Kaleidoscope where Angra Mainyu comes out alive and angry), and decided "let's not let on that I'm a Counter Guardian". In short, he lied.
So he died and let Shirou know everything about him because he didn't want anyone to know about him. Yeah, fucking brilliant.

>Shinji splortched in Fate and Shinji got Gilgamesh in UBW. When Shinji failed but didn't die, he came onto the stage. However awkward that appearance was doesn't matter.
Derp. He appeared before that. Try again.

>Acting.
To no end. Things don't happen for no reason. If he acted for no reason, it is every bit as much of a plot hole as if he wasn't acting at all.

>Please, do.
No need. You can't counter my arguments as it is.

>>2451879
>1: It's a combination of both.
Prove it.

>2: Shinji doesn't lose immediately, so he doesn't emerge. Like Archer, he looks for an opening, but he is not FORCED to appear eitherway.
Wrong. Zouken's appearance marks the beginning of HF--you cannot do ANYTHING differently from how you could at the beginning of Fate or UBW until after Zouken has already shown up for no reason.

>3: He has fought pure manifestations of evil as a Guardian. What he has a vague idea of is what CAUSED it to appear this time.
Wrong. He acts as if he knows everything about it the first time it shows up and then as if he has no idea what it can do in the period before it kills him.

>4: Losing most of his worms in one fell shoop, or True Assassin or Sakura(she is not almighty after all) would be a problem, no matter what.
No, he's always afraid for HIMSELF. Losing most of his worms? Shown to be no problem at all several times. He also acts like "OH GOD NO THE SHADOW IS GOING TO EAAAAT ME" when it first shows up even though it's later established that the Shadow would have to eat itself to have even the slightest hope at killing him... and he can make it do whatever he wants for the greater part of the path. Even though he has no power over it at all later. For no reason, again.

>>2451960
>To no end. Things don't happen for no reason. If he acted for no reason, it is every bit as much of a plot hole as if he wasn't acting at all.


He was acting to make people drop their guards about him.

And it fucking WORKED.

Shirou let him go, and didn't even realize how badly that had fucked him over until Saber was dead.

>>2451960
>To no end. Things don't happen for no reason. If he acted for no reason, it is every bit as much of a plot hole as if he wasn't acting at all.


He was acting to make people drop their guards about him.

And it fucking WORKED.

Shirou let him go, and didn't even realize how badly that had fucked him over until Saber was dead.


>
Wrong. Zouken's appearance marks the beginning of HF--you cannot do ANYTHING differently from how you could at the beginning of Fate or UBW until after Zouken has already shown up for no reason.


So Shirou going out every night to actively hunt other Servants leading to his encounter with Shinji early on wasn't a different starting point?

>>2451960

>So he died and let Shirou know everything about him because he didn't want anyone to know about him. Yeah, fucking brilliant.

Shirou never learns about Archer in Heaven's Feel, except that they're the same person which he learns by arm-grafting mind-infiltration.

>Derp. He appeared before that. Try again.

Really?
Shirou's meddling with Sakura, then.

>To no end. Things don't happen for no reason. If he acted for no reason, it is every bit as much of a plot hole as if he wasn't acting at all.

Don't let people understand what your capable of?
He was hiding his cards the entire time, and wasn't able to show his hand before Sakura ripped him out of her chest.

>>2451962

>Wrong. He acts as if he knows everything about it the first time it shows up and then as if he has no idea what it can do in the period before it kills him.

He doesn't know everything about it, just that it's Angra Mainyu, something that probably took more than 1 Counter Guardian to defeat.
He probably wasn't even AWARE that it ate Servants.

>Losing most of his worms? Shown to be no problem at all several times. He also acts like "OH GOD NO THE SHADOW IS GOING TO EAAAAT ME" when it first shows up even though it's later established that the Shadow would have to eat itself to have even the slightest hope at killing him.

Acting. He didn't want Shirou and co. to know he had power over the Shadow.

The only adequate plot hole (which is more of a gameplay-function hole) is the contradiction that HF cannot be started without UBW completion, despite having the same options. That's all.

>>2451979
Shirou? The same Shirou who knew the Shadow was Sakura all along? It didn't fucking work, Shirou is just a dumbass. Hell, Shirou couldn't have even scratched the guy anyway, so how the fuck does that help him? And everyone else was still as "wow this guy is really hard to kill!" as ever. Oh, and Zouken somehow had a way to control the Shadow when Sakura didn't even need to undergo coercion, yeah? Then he would have known that part of it was in Kotomine's chest and not thought he had won when True Assassin didn't kill him. Oh, and then there was that whole thing about Zouken acting horribly afraid of death when Kotomine was nearly dead and no one else who could care was nearby. Of course, Zouken wouldn't die there and he knew it...

Use some logic.

>>2451962
Not the same guy and though I can't remember all of it but:
control over Sakura != control over Shadow on rampage caused by uncounscious Sakura

Zouken planned to break Sakura using Shiro.
That is all.

>>2452010
>Shirou never learns about Archer in Heaven's Feel, except that they're the same person which he learns by arm-grafting mind-infiltration.
He has access to everything about Archer's existence. Even if he doesn't use that information, concealing it for so long and then giving it out for free is retarded.

>Shirou's meddling with Sakura, then.
Could be done in Fate and UBW without him showing up.

>Don't let people understand what your capable of?He was hiding his cards the entire time, and wasn't able to show his hand before Sakura ripped him out of her chest.
He was so damn determined not to show his hand that he wouldn't do so even when everyone else at the table had left the building for dinner? Interesting.

>He doesn't know everything about it, just that it's Angra Mainyu, something that probably took more than 1 Counter Guardian to defeat. He probably wasn't even AWARE that it ate Servants.
Except for the part where it showed up and he knew it might eat one of them? Or the part where he talked about why it can and can't eat certain Servants with expertise? Hell, he COULDN'T have known the latter unless he knew EVERYTHING, but OH NO, he was just so terribly unprepared that it SURPRISE-KILLED HIM.

>Acting. He didn't want Shirou and co. to know he had power over the Shadow.
They should have all died then, anyway. The fact that they didn't is another plot hole. Oh, Sakura liked Shirou? She sure didn't hesitate to try to eat him several times after that when she had even more direct control over her actions.

>>2452015
>Zouken acting horribly afraid of death when Kotomine was nearly dead and no one else who could care was nearby. Of course, Zouken wouldn't die there and he knew it...


Right. Nobody else.

Nobody else except Kotomine, Anti-Zoken incarnate with his prayers and capable of taking down a Servant in a fight.

Even as your opponent is dead, if you start gloating you can give him the motive he needs to get back up one last time to shut you down. What better way to get someone to stop being an unstoppable in a fight killing machine than to convince them there's no reason to fight anymore?


He shows fear to the shadow because he doesn't want anyone to realize even if Shirou wouldn't kill Sakura, or even figure out their connection, he had reason to believe at that point that Rin or Archer would. And at the least Archer would take action over it.

>>2452042

>Even if he doesn't use that information, concealing it for so long and then giving it out for free is retarded.

Being retarded is not a plot hole.
He wanted Shirou to live, because it was quite obvious that as he was forsaking thousands of people for one, he was not going to be a superhero.

>Could be done in Fate and UBW without him showing up.

Gameplay function.

>He was so damn determined not to show his hand that he wouldn't do so even when everyone else at the table had left the building for dinner? Interesting.

Sakura hadn't broken yet.

>Except for the part where it showed up and he knew it might eat one of them?

He said don't go near it, because it was WALKING CURSE. I don't remember him saying "it will consume you and turn you evil".

>Or the part where he talked about why it can and can't eat certain Servants with expertise?

Angra Mainyu can't corrupt the corrupted.

>Hell, he COULDN'T have known the latter unless he knew EVERYTHING

He fought Angra Mainyu, not The Shadow.

>but OH NO, he was just so terribly unprepared that it SURPRISE-KILLED HIM

Oh my, he was caught off guard by something he wasn't certain he could kill anyway. How ruinous to the plot.

>Oh, Sakura liked Shirou?

She only wanted him hurt so he wouldn't leave home. That part was obvious.
The Shadow just wants to eat.

>>2452045
>Right. Nobody else.
Yep.

>Nobody else except Kotomine, Anti-Zoken incarnate with his prayers and capable of taking down a Servant in a fight.
Irrelevant. Kotomine was going to die. There was no way to escape it.

>Even as your opponent is dead, if you start gloating you can give him the motive he needs to get back up one last time to shut you down.
Not when he doesn't have a heart or the power to make one.

>What better way to get someone to stop being an unstoppable in a fight killing machine than to convince them there's no reason to fight anymore?
Nonsense. Kotomine's target was never Zouken and this was obvious. What act Zouken put on could not change whether Kotomine would have reason to fight or not, and Zouken knew it.

>He shows fear to the shadow because he doesn't want anyone to realize even if Shirou wouldn't kill Sakura, or even figure out their connection, he had reason to believe at that point that Rin or Archer would.
Should have died. Even if this wasn't the case, he was showing fear even before the Shadow showed up when Archer was just cutting at him, and he sure didn't seem to care whether or not it was known that he had artificial immortality at any other point.

>>2452088

>he was showing fear even before the Shadow showed up when Archer was just cutting at him, and he sure didn't seem to care whether or not it was known that he had artificial immortality at any other point.

He didn't want Archer knowing that he was residing in Sakura's heart, as Archer would not have held back.

>>2452088

There's a distinct possibility I'm not remembering the scene right, but I don't think Zouken knew when Kotomine was going to die.

It's quite possible he knew Kotomine would die eventually at that point, but he didn't know how long it would take.

On the same vein of thought, I don't think Zouken had any clue what Kotomine had in mind at that point.

>>2452069
>Being retarded is not a plot hole. He wanted Shirou to live, because it was quite obvious that as he was forsaking thousands of people for one, he was not going to be a superhero.
You have bad memory. The previous argument was that he was hiding the information all along. If so, this would have been the cause of his death and the reason why he gave away the information. Even Archer wouldn't hide information no one cares about which could save everyone's ass for no apparent reason just to force himself to give it away like it's nothing immediately after.

Either he saw the attack coming, which he should have, and ignored it to protect important information when everyone would probably die as a result and then gave that information away to save someone he had just forsaken to death

or he didn't see the attack coming, which he should have.

Plot hole~

>Gameplay function.
So you admit that it's a plot hole. Good, we're getting somewhere.

>Sakura hadn't broken yet.
What are you talking about? I'm talking about when Sakura was already having casual chats about how she really was evil all along.

>He said don't go near it, because it was WALKING CURSE. I don't remember him saying "it will consume you and turn you evil".
So he didn't know anything about it. Even though he had already fought it. Or he hadn't already fought it, but he had fought something else. And he remembered this something else he had fought and knew it was the same even though he didn't know anything about it. And the plot in UBW talked about how there was so much shit to remember that he'd never remember the most important part of his afterlife. But he somehow remembered this other thing which wasn't important. And he had no clue that the Grail's curse would eat/corrupt things even though he had faced off against it himself at some point. Oh, and there's the part in Fate where Saber is weeeird to Rin because she can remember her previous summonings clearly which is, like, totally impossible for anything which could be a Servant, but when Archer does it it's just to be expected and Rin isn't surprised at all.

>Angra Mainyu can't corrupt the corrupted.
Angra Mainyu can't corrupt Gilgamesh, but Gilgamesh isn't a corrupted hero. If there aren't set rules for this kind of thing, Archer can't just spout off about them, but there aren't and he does. How do you explain this?

>Oh my, he was caught off guard by something he wasn't certain he could kill anyway. How ruinous to the plot.
You don't get caught off-guard by something if you know how to fight it. So Archer didn't know how to fight it, so he had no information, but he did have information because he kept going on about stuff he couldn't know unless he did but...

Let's face it--Archer had as much or as little information as Nasu wanted him to have at any given point with zero explanation. Plot hole.

>She only wanted him hurt so he wouldn't leave home. That part was obvious. The Shadow just wants to eat.
Either Sakura was able to tell the Shadow how to act or Shirou should have died. If Sakura was able to tell the Shadow how to act, her later attempt to kill Shirou, foiled by Rin, should never have happened.

>>2452205
Sakura doesn't have direct control(It can go berserk or out of control), Archer doesn't have exact knowledge on how this Shadow works, apart from being evil manifest and that it's a good idea not to touch it, especially if you are a goody goody with no protection.

>>2452146
>There's a distinct possibility I'm not remembering the scene right, but I don't think Zouken knew when Kotomine was going to die. It's quite possible he knew Kotomine would die eventually at that point, but he didn't know how long it would take.
He did not. However, you can't run all the way from the middle of a forest to the depths of a cave in the middle of a town without a heart, can you?

>On the same vein of thought, I don't think Zouken had any clue what Kotomine had in mind at that point.
He came to take back Illyasviel, so it was clear that he wanted to do something with the Grail. In such a case, Zouken's fate is of no significance.

I don't see any major plot holes. If you think you found one, then you should shift your pov a little bit.

Ah, once again the classical 'Instead of applying rules and knowledge to explain how these different events and situations work, I'll try to dig up points that only apply specifically with speculation added to prove there is no logical train of thought in the events'.

>>2452230
>it's a good idea not to touch it, especially if you are a goody goody with no protection.
He knows this for a fact. Either he knows enough about the Shadow to know how it works or there's some universal rule. However, there can't be a universal rule because true heroes like Gilgamesh aren't bothered by it. So he must know about the Shadow. But he doesn't. Or does he? He does and doesn't because Nasu didn't care enough to keep everything consistent.

ITT: Type-Moon fanboys don't want to admit their favorite writer makes mistakes.

>>2452259

How about there's no universal rule about the Shadow, but he knows a little from his inference from battling Angra Mainyu?

He knows some stuff (don't touch the curseblob it will curse you), but not all stuff (look how fast that fucker can go).

>>2452259
Gilgamesh doesn't resist because he is a 'true hero'.

There is no definition of 'true hero' in F/SN.
Gil is just powerful and has strong will.
Archer who is not a goody two shoes by that point, is not affected either.
Assassin prolly would not be corrupted easily too.

There is a UNIVERSAL rule about evil manifest and it's corruptive influence, which Archer has fought and knows , but not every manifestation works in the same way and has the same abilities or origin.

So, the fact that he has basic knowledge, but NO details is simple enough. And Archer doesn't like to give away too much info about who he is and what he has done.

Your arguments of 'inconsistency' make not much sense.

>>2452267
Well, to be fair, the ones that hate HF are Nasu fans too. We just hate Heaven's Feel.

>>2452267
He has faults aplenty. and there may be actual plot holes.
But what a specific fucker tries to prove as 'plot hole', aka,Archer's role and knowledge and Zoken's actions are not.

ITT We don't know what "infer" means.

By the way, the reason why Zouken hasn't done much of anything in UBW was because Shinji had him killed almost immediately after he got Gilgamesh.

>>Angra Mainyu can't corrupt Gilgamesh, but Gilgamesh isn't a corrupted hero.

Yes, he is ... that Archer was corrupted in the previous war when the Grail spilled on him.

Missed the Fate route?

kotomine lost his fake heart fighting against sakura, AFTER dealing with zouken, so the old fag couldn't know he was going to die.

>>2452319
My favorite tripfriend is always the voice of reason in these shitty threads

>>2452341

He wasn't corrupted completely.
He only got weaker and slightly more rude.

Did YOU miss the Fate route?
"All the evils in the world? Hah. Bring at least three times as much if you want to stain ME."

>>2452376
Indeed.
General consensus:
Contact with this ichor normally corrupts a Servant's ego, but Gilgamesh resisted submission to the evil influence. However, the saturation converted his spiritual body to one of flesh and blood, and Gilgamesh also become more eccentric and excitable.

>>2452319
I blame parallel universes. It's the only in-story explanation for why Zouken shows up in HF when the same events don't cause Zouken to show up in UBW and Fate.

>>2452341
IIRC, in HF it said that the corruption couldn't taint Gilgamesh, so it instead flowed into Kotomine and formed his black heart. Not sure how the hell that works though.

>>2452376
Yeah, it's not an issue they make a big deal of, but it certainly shows how badass Gilgamesh is.