/jp/ - Otaku Culture

There's already an oversaturation of Touhou material. Why don't you be original and stop having the mentality of "Oh, I'll just create a sub-par doujin / doujin game / etc but everyone will love it because it will be TOUHOU!!!"

Getting people to post shit on /jp/ will be a problem. I'm pretty confident we can actually make some quality work, however I think the trolling masking as constructive criticism will just discourage most of the talented portion of /jp/ to not post shit up.

Awhile ago when /jp/ project was more active I was working on the idea of a Touhou MUD. Was fucking around with a lib (one I think is rather shitty, but served as a good enough base for me to mold into shape) but I kind of lost motivation since there was no interest and I was working solo.

Everything they've produced is shit

All translations are handled by a group of elitist fuckfaggots who make translating/editing things go through a process similar to tax returns, and if you don't your work is gaurunteed to never be seen by anyone.

>>2424789
I'll draw something

I have a Touhou remix idea and a VN idea (not Touhou related), but I don't want to talk about them before they're seriously put into motion, because it's embarrassing to talk about beforehand if I don't go through with it.

>>2424808

Just like we discussed in the previous thread, criticism shouldn't even matter. If you have an idea that you want to see portrayed, no one is stopping you. If your works suck then thats all the more reason to keep doing it for practice. I don't mean for this thread to provide quality material, I expect failures. But we all need a starting point, and its good if people are starting in the same place. Post your doodles in MS paint or ideas that have come up in your mind, it doesn't really matter.

>>2424816

Western fans tend to have an attitude that they NEED to have their name known. They aren't like the asians where they do it because they love the fandom.

>>2424789
I have been working on a Danmaku shooter on XNA. Too bad my algorithm file reader don't work at all nor I could get some original sprites since I'm no good with pixels art.

>>2424821
That's what.....msn is for, or something of the sort

There was also a Touhou VN project last year, but once school started again everybody disappeared, was a shame, I really wanted to make it happen (I made the Ren'py prototype). Maybe I should try to revive it and take over, dunno' if there's enough interest, though.

For people who want to draw, I suggest drawing your own portrayal of Nazrin as a starting point. She could use some love.

>>2424832
I post my stuff anonymously on here. I stopped caring about name recognition a while ago.

But you're right about most other Westerners.

>>2424831

The only person stopping drawfags is themselves. But still, trolling them doesn't help. /jp/ anons don't have good self esteem. That's why we're here in the first place.

>>2424836
I have no idea what you're talking about, but I have actually discussed it slightly with people on MSN before. People I knew wouldn't troll me.

I remember back when the work on the Touhou VN started. While a lot of effort was put into it, a number of routes getting storyboards and plenty of talk over its overall structure and lining up artists and such, it's predictable that nothing working has come out of it over a year later. (In fact, it's been just a little over a year, I think.)

Doujins just... don't get made by Westerners, and there's a damn good reason for that. We don't have a market for them. The Japanese do. You can make money--sometimes a lot, often not, but some in any case--by making doujinshi in Japan. In someplace like the US? Hell no. We just don't do that stuff. Expecting people to be able to put out the same work for free is just ridiculous.

>>2424802
A Scarlet-Stained Memoir, on THP

>>2424839
Ok

>>2424852
>We don't have a market for them.
Sad, but true. In Japan this sort of thing is acceptable and encouraged, over here in the U.S. it gets people sued more often than not.

>>2424813

Touhou MUD?

Oh, man. I can see that going...not so well, as a former frequenter of MUDs, MUXs, and MUSHes.

>>2424839
I still think the smirk I made of her was pretty cute.

>>2424831
Actually, someone brought up a good point before. People tend to just bash idiotically, providing almost no help or direction, and they simply justify their post by saying "it's constructive criticism."

>>2424848
That's what I meant, it's more....selective.

>>2424837
You're moosem?

The IRC channel is still there and at least some of the people involved are still around. I talk to one of them semi-regularly.

>>2424863
We're not all from the US you know?

>>2424835
here

Here is an actual screenshot of the game. Yeah, I pretty much ripped off the sprites from MoF and CtC.

You can moves, shoot (focused, unfocused), enemies can kill you if you touch them, collision with bullets is working, angles movement is actually kinda glitchy too, lives system works, bombs are drained but they don't do anything. The border stop of the gameplay zone stop you from moving.

I have been trying to make my file reader work, no luck.

Just think of this thread as a piece of draft paper. It can get ugly, but it is working towards building a finished piece. And when the piece is actually finished and you want recognition, you won't be tied to your previous works because no one looks at the drafts or even knows who did the draft in the first place.

>>2424865
Oh I know the kind of people it would attract. But the concept appeals to me. 99% of MUDs are shit though, so it would have to be handled with care.

>>2424852
The majority of doujin artists don't make money. Though it might be possible that some make it because there's this tiny chance they can make money. But mostly I think the motivation of having a market is knowing that there are people who will enjoy your works.

>>2424884

Yes, or else you will have FURRY TAUR YUUKA WITH TEN BREASTS WITH DICKNIPPLES AND FIVE DOG COCKS running around on your MUD.

>>2424873
I'm Kimeraki, I made the very initial version with the cheesy walfas graphics, not as many people remember that one.
If the IRC is still up I'll have to go visit, although, is there a web interface for it? School blocks IRC ports and I spend most of my day there, thus why I stopped being able to go there as much. I graduate in a month though so that'll be nice (except for the lack of a job part, yay!)

>>2424883
I'm still very fucking wary about posting my stuff. I don't know why, it's probably not going to happen, but I have a terrible fear that some artist will beat me to my idea before I develop my art well enough. I actually remember a topic quite a while ago talking about this exact thing.

I guess I'll just use this thread to practice drawing.

Pic related to my current art skills (orlackof).

>>2424903
lack of

>>2424891
But yeah, I know the type.

>>2424875
I said "someplace like."

>>2424888
You're a very silly person.

>>2424875
The servers are located in the U.S., so it's perfectly acceptable to refer to the location as "here in the U.S."

In any case. Myself, I am a drawer, but without any particular skill, experience, and definitely no motivation. I have to say, there's not alot of reason to draw when Japan is pumping out literally thousands of touhou images a day, at least like five doujins a week, untold mountains of music, and doujin games here and there. There's just not a whole lot of reason to do it, even if you love the characters. Those that do deserve recognition, but more often than not all they get is "PIG DISGUSTING AMERICAN BAD ART BAD STORY BLAH BLAH BLAH" Some of it deserved, but alot of it definitely not deserved. Then we get threads like these where people wonder why our fandom has so little production; I think it should be obvious at this point.

I want to make a Touhou black metal arrange album, but I lack the gear.

Regarding criticism: There are some people who just believe that animu related stuff should be left to the nips. It's like saying that Don Giovanni wasn't an opera buffa, because Mozart wasn't Italian. Suggesting that there's some metaphysical concept in opera buffa that you need Italian blood to grasp. But no, it's a format, a format that happens to be associated with Italian culture. And culture is not genetic.

Basically, a bunch of retards will try to put down any westerner who tries to contribute in the same style as a nip, no matter how much potential they show or how good of a job they do. So don't listen to them.

The problem with writing tales of Gensokyo is that everyone has their own set ideas as to how a character would act.

Using Cirno as anything other than a retarded joke character results in LOL 9 BAKA LOLOLOL, for example.

Also, I think Fanfiction is horrible as a basic rule. George R. R. Martin hates it, Ursula K. LeGuin hates it...all the accomplished writers have a disdain for fanfiction.

I personally consider it to be a bad habit, which is why I don't write long and lengthy explorations into my view of Gensokyo.

My works are merely short vignettes and slices of action, or parodies and satire. I also did a shit-ton of work about the war between the Moon and the Earth in the '60's, but it's all appendices and information, not story.

>>2424911
No, I'm not.

>>2424909
I'll probably start coding it again, I don't really have any good design ideas yet but I can atleast work on fleshing out the lib.

>>2424936
Well, with something like Gensokyo you only have so much canon material to work with. There's a lot more room for creative license.

>>2424936

Fanfiction is horrible because 99% of the people writing it don't realize how much effort it takes to actually get a decent story going. They'll just write whatever the hell is off the top of their heads and expect it to be awesome. They don't realize the painstaking hours put into editing, proofreading and drafting that real writers have to go through to get a decent story.

>>2424949
>>2424949
This. Polite sage.

>>2424948
>>2424949

There are good works of fanfiction out there, but I dare not grow too accustomed to it, as not developing your own characters and plot leads to you becoming a crippled, half-cocked writer.

I am aware of the fact that writing isn't just about vomiting words and purple prose onto the screen as hard as you can, it takes a lot of proofreading, re-writing, copyediting, and annotating to get a decent finished product.

And then there are those with a natural talent. Stephen King can just write stuff off the top of his head that he thinks is awesome and scary, but that's because he's mother fucking STEPHEN KING.

>>2424936

I don't think people really have a problem with their favorite character not being portrayed the way "they" want it to be. It's more like you aren't portraying the character well. Take Cirno for example. I have no qualms with her being treated like an idiot. But give her some emotion. Like FLIPFLOPs(I think...). He still made Cirno to be an idiot, but when Letty had to go away because spring has arrived, Cirno gave a tearful goodbye to Letty and promised to play next winter.

>>2424958
>as not developing your own characters and plot leads to you becoming a crippled, half-cocked writer.
We just want to have some fun with doujinshi, yo.

I'm not looking to be a pro writer. I just want to have fun with the Touhouverse, and present an idea about it.

>>2424964
This. A good doujinshi won't always necessarily be one that has the exact same idea as yours, but it'll be one that presents their own idea well.

Works in progress, you say?

I don't think the problem is the lack of western material. As mentioned here before, it's kind of pointless to produce a doujin if you know there is almost no market for it. And I'm not talking about making a profit, I mean people being interested on it at all.

What lacks is what OP already stated, translations. For a "franchise" as big as this to be so behind on even official works is a shame really.

Another thing that we as westerns could work on is more game related stuff that the Japanese haven't done yet. Stuff like porting the game to a portable or something, whatever makes the series more popular here.

All I do is spread the word to fellow gamers. They are addicting and fun so it is a relatively easy thing to do. But I don't think I would be able to do much else.

>>2424964

Yep it was flipflops. And yeah I agree. I just got off a downloading binge of grabbing Touhou doujins and I really hate the ones that make Cirno out to be LOLBAKABAKABAKABAKA flat character. I almost bawwwwed like a bitch at that scene. You don't need over dramatic events to make me bawwwww, but just something touching I can really relate to like losing a friend, and there isn't anything either can do about it.

>>2424964

Indeed, fleshing out a character and making them three-dimensional should be supremely important.

If your readers don't connect with your characters or they don't care about them, they close the window and that is that.

>>2424969

I still have qualms about reinforcing bad habits in my writing. I already have quite a few that I'm struggling to eliminate.
I don't want to further this by growing used to fanfiction and developing an inability to create original, inventive characters.

On the other hand, I could be using this as an excuse for not wanting to write, period.

>>2424977
I'm gonna sound /ic/ish but....anatomy. Draw from life.

Honestly, I've been thinking that a sort of expansion on the Perfect Memento series, characterized entirely by fandom gags and creations (Articles about Yukkuris, Mannosuke, etc.) and so on done from Akyu's perspective, or perhaps the story of an outsider who gets sucked into Gensokyo and has everything horrible imagineable happen to him (It'd be a he because it's inevitably funnier that way), with absolutely nothing good at all or any break of luck.

I COULD write either of them if I wanted, I'm a writefag, but I worry about the 99% of all Fanfiction is crap law.

>>2424992

Yeah not having a market is pretty discouraging. I really don't want to spend hours toiling to make a kickass doujin only to have 15 people tops read it.

>>2424977
That's not a bad pic. The only real flaw I see in it is the way her right (viewer's left) thigh seems to be mounted on her body higher than the other leg. Lower the top line a bit.

>>2424936
There is some kind of compilation of the Earth's invasion to the Moon? Info images and doujin wise.
if not, then could you upload a compilation of YOUR work on the matter? That thread was quite interesting.

>>2424899
I use mibbit when I don't have an IRC client handy.

>>2424936
People don't tend to have many problems with characters being differently portrayed, actually. I have noticed this in practice, specifically with Touhou. Part of the reason is the scarcity of canonical material--and the unreliability of some of it (Aya admits that she writes the truth only when it will sell, in Bohemian Archive).

Showing characters from many possible perspectives is part of the fun of it all. I'm half-tempted to dredge up a rant I did last week on the personalities of the Scarlet sisters in regards to this issue.

>Also, I think Fanfiction is horrible as a basic rule.
Well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

>not developing your own characters and plot leads to you becoming a crippled, half-cocked writer.
As if ZUN's characters don't need development to be used at all.

>>2425011

There was precious little to work on, so I visualized the conflict myself and thought about the machines of war that each side would use. For example, the troop carriers that the US Marines would use, the ships of the Lunarian Navy, the equipment and armor of the Lunarian infantry, etc.
Most of it is half-done and incomplete, as the project is not one I felt like ever completing. There's no market for it.

>Well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

Not really, I adopted that stance on fanfiction after hearing of how accomplished writers consider fanfiction to be little more than exercises in futility and idiocy.

I remember George R. R. Martin going on a huge rant about fanfiction and how he would sue anyone who even so much as dared to write one chapter of story in his storyverses...

>>2424996
>On the other hand, I could be using this as an excuse for not wanting to write, period.
>>2425001
>but I worry about the 99% of all Fanfiction is crap law.

Even writing crap is better than writing nothing at all. You will not improve by not writing. You will just continue being a lazy fuck.

>>2425005
Thanks, I'll fix it.

>>2424998
I've been trying to work on my anatomy. Is there anything in particular that you see wrong? I don't mind criticism.

>>2425061
Same goes for drawing

>>2424964

Fucking this. It's more that people feel that their favorite character isn't being done justice. Anyone can make Cirno into an idiot or Chen into some catgirl that acts like a kid. But it takes someone who really loves the characters to make them feel alive.

>>2425057
>Not really, I adopted that stance on fanfiction after hearing of how accomplished writers consider fanfiction to be little more than exercises in futility and idiocy.

And that's their opinion.

Getting your opinion from someone else doesn't make it any less of an opinion.

And threatening lawsuits only shows him to be an asshole, not a master of what should and should not be written. Being a great writer doesn't give you the right to decide what should be written.

>Showing characters from many possible perspectives is part of the fun of it all.
This. I've read Yandere Alice, Tsundere Alice, Apathetic Alice Baka Cirno, Retarded Cirno, Cute Cirno, Powerful Cirno. Shy Chen, Retarded Chen, Smart Chen, Twisted Chen, Shin-ra agent Chen. Evil Ran, Slave Ran, Smart Ran, Kind Ran and the list goes on and on.

I, for one, don't believe that there is a 'right' version of each character. Maybe some versions are closer to what ZUN thought, but - and I think this was intentional - with the little info we have about their relationships, we MUST use our imagination. And, since we're different people, our versions differ. But that's the great thing about all of this isn't it?

>>2424882
here.

So ... no programmers around here? A western Touhou project would be awesome. It just pack everything up, music, art, story.

>>2425084
I would make some art but....I'm not as "shitty" as ZUN.

>I remember George R. R. Martin going on a huge rant about fanfiction and how he would sue anyone who even so much as dared to write one chapter of story in his storyverses...

And him being a douchebag proves what?

>>2425076

>And threatening lawsuits only shows him to be an asshole, not a master of what should and should not be written. Being a great writer doesn't give you the right to decide what should be written.

Well, if someone wants literary opinion from a writer, who are they going to listen to? Me, or GRRM?

Naturally, it wouldn't be me. Everyone will side with Martin because he's the one who wrote bestselling novels(Wild Cards, A Song Of Ice And Fire)while I have nothing to show for myself.

Now THAT is just my opinion on the subject. If people didn't hate fanfiction with such an overwhelming passion I'd write fanfiction until my computer burned out.

/making excuses. Yes, I know I'm only offering up reasons to be a slovenly fucktard.... -sigh- ...it's why I considered writing more Touhou stories, but I keep putting it off until the next day, and somehow that next day never comes.

>>2425084
Shit tier programmer here (and MUD guy), I'd be interested in helping out. Though as I said, shit tier and not familiar with XNA, but perhaps I'll read up on it.

>>2425078
And then there's The Last Stand of Cirno the Valiant, which I recommend.

>>2425084
Writer and programmer, but not enough free time to join a new project.

>>2425099
I love Martin, but I think he's got a bad attitude regarding this.

I'm about to shit in my pants in anger at my computer. I typed a fair bit and now it's all gone. I'll have to condense it, because hell if I'm typing all that again.

>>2424977
The dress looks way off. It seems like you're adding unnecessary folds just for the sake of adding folds, likely because you're only working with lineart. Reference dresses. You'll find that you'll rarely ever have skirts "ride into the crack" between the thighs and the crotch, but it may depend on the fabric. However, oftentimes, it's very smooth overall, slight shadows and highlights marking a slight depression between the two points where the thighs stretch the dress. But again, if it's a poofy Touhou-style dress, you'll have to reference that, since it doesn't work anywhere near the same way as "traditional" skirts.

I would suggest at least trying to shade, so that you can gain a better understanding of the shape of the objects, and gain a better understanding about how all the parts of the body is exactly interacting in regards to the clothing and light. Learning shadows never hurt either.

Also, I would suggest drawing the chair, even just a rough sketch of it, so you can draw the things better in relation to it.

Here's a site with a bunch of old ladies wearing dresses/skirts while sitting.
http://www.bartlam-madeley.com/htm/Femalehtmfiles/Femalesitting/fulllenghsettingdarkdress.html

>>2424996
>I don't want to further this by growing used to fanfiction and developing an inability to create original, inventive characters.
That seems to be at the fault of the writer rather than fanfiction in general. But fine, I see where you're coming from, but really, I don't understand why you need to be so demeaning about it. Like we said, we're just doing this for kicks more than anything else.

Anon trying to make Touhou Total War here. Making 3D skins is trying. I don't want to just use the same fairy sprites to represent all the basic grunt units. I've been spending alot of time trying to design light infantry and heavy infantry for all the different factions that use fairies.

>>2425108

>That seems to be at the fault of the writer rather than fanfiction in general. But fine, I see where you're coming from, but really, I don't understand why you need to be so demeaning about it.

I'm just voicing the internal dialogue I have whenever I open Dark Room and decide to write something about Touhou.
Rest assured, it bothers me as much as it bothers you because it prevents me from getting anything done.

>>2425099

Do you somehow lack the ability to think for yourself? Get some opinions of your own rather than slavishly adopting those of others.

>>2425108
Bookmarked

>>2425084

C++fag here with experience in DirectX and OpenGL. Next project or the one after is danmaku (oh lawd original content - not a Touhou clone).

I can speak fluent Japanese and read and write fluently but I don't have the time to translate stuff. My excuse is that I've been busy trying to get an internship. Seems like it's easier to get a job offer than an internship. The last place I applied to, the minimum requirements was a BS and 5 years work experience. What the fuck? Internships is for people who are trying to learn. Anyways once summer rolls around and if I'm still internshipless or jobless, I'll start translating the Marimite light novels.

>>2425099
>Well, if someone wants literary opinion from a writer, who are they going to listen to? Me, or GRRM?

I didn't ask for his opinion. Fuck 'im.

>Yes, I know I'm only offering up reasons to be a slovenly fucktard

Then just stop doing that, get off your ass and write. Write regardless of the size of your audience and regardless of who hates it. If they hate the genre or the medium then their opinion is meaningless anyway.

I've been writing Touhou fanfiction since last fall. I was a decent but lazy writer of short original works before then but, regardless of the fact that what I'm doing borrows (and universally reinterprets) known characters, I've improved greatly over these past few months. I probably only have a few dozen people at most reading my work, but that's more than enough.

>>2425118
Come on, now, let's not be hostile. It's not really a big deal. Fanfiction's got a bad reputation, and although he just might be "following the crowd", but he's made it pretty clear he has his own personal justifications for bashing it. Admittedly, it's in pretty bad taste to bring up the point in the first place in the topic, but come on, let's just take it easy in this topic.

You guys are missing what I think is a very big reason for the lack of doujin creation in the US: the age of the fandom.

Before the internet, the 2D fandom in the west was tiny, consisting only of random spinoff groups from the SF fandom and little groups of friends trading fansubbed VHS tapes through the mail. Only since the birth of the internet has it begun to grow at all, and only more recently still has it begun to encompass anything more than just anime.

In Japan on the other hand, the fandom has been very active for ages. The first comike was held in 1975, versus A-Kon, which bills itself as the oldest anime convention in the US, having started in 1990. You can't expect the same level of quality production from a fandom so young. Look at other fandoms in the West: while there may not be anything close to Japan's doujin community in size and scope, there is a lot of quality production in fantasy/SF/gaming fandoms (at least I believe there is, from what I've seen and heard, correct me if I'm wrong).

Obviously copyright issues and whatnot are also a problem, but it's not like some great talented Western doujin community would magically appear if all of a sudden all rules about selling fan made content were lifted. There just isn't a community in place yet to back something like that up.

>>2425108
Thank you! That is very useful.

On the topic of original materials, if you want to paint, here are some adive. Always start with a huge canvas, preferably one that is 3200 x 3200. I've noticed and heard that the difference in size generally adds to the quality of your textures, and you are able to paint more in-depth.

Also the first thing about drawing in general is having a good program. If you can't get photoshop, get SAI. The program is tiny (3mbs) and contains basically everything you'll need to paint and draw with. Somebody on /jp/ placed it in /rs/ previously. Get it here
http://www.sendspace.com/file/2p1css

Do it faggots.

Whats this and why should I try and draw this? Educate mans (I posted in the non-bumping thread too) - reference would be ideal too.

>>2425150 but he's made it pretty clear he has his own personal justifications for bashing it

No, he's made it clear that other people have their own personal justifications for bashing it and that he's mindlessly following them on the assumption that they must know more about it than him. Ethos should not take precendence over logos when forming an opinion.

>>2424977
Use a reference, You'll see major improvement.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say it's bad, but that your sketch could receive a major boost from an actual reference( a photo, a doll, imitate the pose on a mirror, now with google a world of possibilities is open)

>>2425196

>and that he's mindlessly following them on the assumption that they must know more about it than him.

If they're making large amounts of money doing what they are doing, then it's perfectly safe to assume that they are in the right, or at the very least have an educated opinion about certain things.

Besides, isn't that the way 4chan teaches you to think? To follow the majority and ignore the one or two that go against the grain?

>>2425207

They've made their money writing novels, not being expert witnesses on fanfiction.

It's not like this is some advanced scientific topic where getting enough understanding to have an educated opinion would be impossible for the average person. Put the facts together and form your own opinion.

>>2425207
>If they're making large amounts of money doing what they are doing, then it's perfectly safe to assume that they are in the right, or at the very least have an educated opinion about certain things.

No, it's safe to assume that he's at least a decent author.

This means he can probably give some advice on how to become a successful novelist, though even this is sketchy, since it will only be one man's experiences.

It does not in any way, shape, or form indicate that he even knows anything about fanfiction, because he does not write fanfiction.

If one were to accept the reasoning you have just proposed, one would have to conclude that the winner of an automotive race is the final authority not only on what economy cars are a good buy, but how those cars should be built.

>>2425100
>>2425102
>>2425124
Wow great to see I'm not alone. I program in Java and I'm kind of new into XNA, but it is really easy to learn.

The danmaku patterns is the real problem here. I have used some CtC scripts as reference, but I have no idea how does it work for the program to read this scripts and refresh them on screen every frame.

I have read several books of 2D programming, but it seems there is nothing there.

Alright, hope I see another one of these.

>>2425207 then it's perfectly safe to assume that they are in the right

No, you should never "assume" that some authority figure is in the right. If they're so knowlegable, they should be able to convice people of their opinions through logical argument, not by saying "Trust me, I'm a doctor". Ethos does not beat out logos, ever.

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>>2425261

Well, he didn't just say FANFICTION SUX DON'T DO IT. He offered some fairly good points as to why one should not write it.

>http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Fan_Fiction/

However, if you want a compelling argument FOR fanfiction from me, just look at the Star Wars Expanded Universe. It's basically published fanfiction.

I particularly like the way George Lucas chose to endorse and condone the fleshing-out of the world he began with the Original Trilogy, and he makes an excellent counterpoint to GRRM's rather negative stance on fanfiction.

It's a complex issue. But what all this boils down to is that I want to avoid doing what must be done, and so I dish up reasons not to.

Anyone remember which program allows drawing in a chat room. Was it paint chat or something similar? I remember some good materials came out of those. Maybe we can get one set up constantly or something.

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>>2425207 If they're making large amounts of money doing what they are doing, then it's perfectly safe to assume that they are in the right
AHAHAHA OH WOW

>>2425207
>Besides, isn't that the way 4chan teaches you to think? To follow the majority and ignore the one or two that go against the grain?

That's true up to a point. There's conforming to the culture of a place and then there's being a windsock

>>2425352
Ok, let's look at this.

>The reasons most authors frown on fan fiction are legal. If you do not defend your copyright, legally the case can be made that you have abandoned it, and you lose all ability to protect your work.

This has nothing to do with whether fanfiction is good or bad.

>I also think that doing fan fiction is bad training for any aspiring writer. With the world and the background all provided, the writer does not learn to create these things for himself. Fan fiction is to fiction as paint-by-numbers kits are to painting.

An accurate analogy would be that fanfiction is to writing as drawing life or landscapes is to drawing purely from imagination. A harsher analogy would be that fanfiction is to writing as photography is to painting. (One may wish to recall that photography is generally considered an art in and of itself.)

Further, it assumes that the fanfiction author does not create his own setting, characters, and history, all of which I have seen done in fanfiction. "Alternate universe" or "expanded universe" settings necessarily imply that the author is not simply using the setting as-is, but is making his own decisions, and the latter specifies that he is adding original material. Original characters are also original material.

>Of course, it is very flattering when someone likes your world so much that they want to write stories in it, and you hate to douse any fan's enthusiasm... but ultimately it's a bad idea, for both fan =and= pro.

And this is not a point at all.

>>2425352

How many other stories do you think were based on older stories? Sure, they didn't have a neat term like "fanfiction" back then, but I have no doubt that it happened. Really, such a stance seems a bit silly to me. If you want to get REALLY technical, one can claim the most of the Big Two's comics today (DC, Marvel) are nothing but glorified fanfiction, as those particular books are made by people who grew up with superheroes, and not the original creators.

>>2425352

>The reasons most authors frown on fan fiction are legal. If you do not defend your copyright, legally the case can be made that you have abandoned it, and you lose all ability to protect your work.

I think we both know this is nonsense. Parody is not an invasion of copyright. If fanfiction is something an author is trying to "protect" his work from, he never had any right to do so in the first place.

>I also think that doing fan fiction is bad training for any aspiring writer. With the world and the background all provided, the writer does not learn to create these things for himself. Fan fiction is to fiction as paint-by-numbers kits are to painting.

I would argue that not every story need be considered "training". Some people write simply because they enjoy writing. Neither is there any nescessity that an aspiring writer create either fan or original materials exclusively.

Furthermore, consider what "training" one does get out out of such an endeavour; you might not be creating a world, but writing with a setting and/or characters you do not have full creative control over give more practice at keeping settings and characters consistant and in-character.

I didn't read the old thread.
I haven't read this one.
I've only come here just now.

Can someone give me a tl;dr on what's been discussed and how I can contribute?

Is anyone making a L4D Touhou skin?

>>2425442

>>The reasons most authors frown on fan fiction are legal. If you do not defend your copyright, legally the case can be made that you have abandoned it, and you lose all ability to protect your work.

>I think we both know this is nonsense. Parody is not an invasion of copyright. If fanfiction is something an author is trying to "protect" his work from, he never had any right to do so in the first place.

Not only is it nonsense, it's also explicitly stating that the reason it's being frowned upon has nothing to do with quality or lack thereof, but rather because of the authors concerned being butthurt about other people using their precious universes.

>>2425408

It's more of a case that the argument against fanfiction dishes up an overwhelming amount of reasons why you should not do it, while there are very few reasons why you should. Peter Chimaera, Squirrelking, and FF.net come to mind here.

All of these things greatly influenced my stance on fanfiction, and discouraged me from doing it.

>>2425423

Continuing in the technical spirit, the Bible could be called a gigantic repository of fanfiction. 'Fanfiction' is as old as the hills themselves, but recently the term has taken on a negative stigma to many.

>Furthermore, consider what "training" one does get out out of such an endeavour; you might not be creating a world, but writing with a setting and/or characters you do not have full creative control over give more practice at keeping settings and characters consistant and in-character.

This is precisely why I endeavored to create more Touhou fanfiction. It's an excellent way to exercise one's ability to work with pliable characters and setting. However....the rose tinted glasses came off at some point in time.

>>2425452
Someone mentioned a VN. There was a Touhou VN in the works since spring of last year. Some people are still at least semi-active in it.

Someone mentioned a danmaku game they'd like to code.

Some people are attempting to draw.

Some people are discussing whether or not they should write.

>>2425456

Reimu HAS to be the Hunter.

>>2425452
OP started a Eastern vs Western fandom.
-Majority of Western fandom is shit.
-Anons trying to change that.
-etcetc.

>>2425460
>Peter Chimaera

What.

What.

Peter Chimaera DISCOURAGED you?

You know it was a complete joke, right? He writes like that on purpose, and only when using that pseudonym.

People can discuss their philosophies about subjects and why shit never gets done, but it all ends up in the same situation; shit not being done. If you have an idea then get working on it. People are bound to have conflicting opinions, why worry about them. And fan fiction wise, you can basically say all doujins are fan fictions with art included. When the doujin is bad, people will complain. Everyone has seen their share of crap doujins with some of the worse stories imaginable. But when it is good, people do give praises, the same with all other created materials. The world of Gensokyo is basically what the the reader makes of it anyways, that is part of the beauty of the series.

>>2425452

Right now its mainly been discussions. For artists, it is suggested they start with their own portrayal of Nazrin as a starting point in this thread. There were also some talks about basic programming.

>>2425460 It's more of a case that the argument against fanfiction dishes up an overwhelming amount of reasons why you should not do it, while there are very few reasons why you should. Peter Chimaera, Squirrelking, and FF.net come to mind here.

Hey, guys, Twilight isn't a very good series. I guess that means no-one should ever write books again, right?

Finding a good novel requires wading through just as much dross as finding a well-written fanfiction.

By the way, Peter Chimaera is a parody.

>>2425465
>>2425465
Reimu is the zombie.
Witch - Yukari
Hunter - Youmu
Boomer - Utsuho
Smoker - Yuyuko
Tank - Suika

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>>2425470

The Peter Chimaera issue is that there are people who actually, honestly write like that, and they make up a large portion of the Fic community - see FF.net for details on this.

I understand that he is merely taking a satirical view on the world of fanfics, but my main gripe is that it's unnervingly close to a good percentage of fanfiction.

>>2425475

I concede my point to you, sir. Well done.

Another good example is Eragon. lololol self inserts and plotrips from Star Wars + Lord Of The Rings.

I meant to post this earlier in the thread, but it took longer to draw than I thought it would.

Take it as you will.

>>2425491
smokan touhous thread?
derp

>>2425463
>>2425467
>>2425474
Cool.

Well, all I think I can do is write, probably shit writing at that. Guess I'll quietly wait in the shadows and step forward to lend the occasional helping hand.

>>2425490
>Another good example is Eragon. lololol self inserts and plotrips from Star Wars + Lord Of The Rings.

And just think: This is crap that got PUBLISHED.

Can you even imagine how much bad fiction never gets that far?

>>2425491
This.

You know what is sad about the western fandom. Eventhough >>2425491 is a rough sketch and quite shitty, it is still better than 90% of the shit done by the western fandom.

>>2425498

>>2425507

>Can you even imagine how much bad fiction never gets that far?

Boggles the mind, really. Most of it just goes straight from the slushpile into the garbage.

>>2425529
Or, like with the stuff on ffnet, it gets posted online because no one expects it to be publishable.

There are, for those who don't know, sites like fictionpress that do the same thing as ffnet but for fiction in general.

>>2425522

That's because you're blind and are following a blind interpretation that "Western = BAD!"

This is the magic of the Western fanbase, it's so infatuated with hating itself that it can never hope to be productive in anyway.

There's some good fanfiction, and very small amounts of excellent fanfiction. The problem is that all the rest is awful fanfiction.

>>2425544
I'm >>2425491, and I think you're missing my point. I'm saying that Western fandom needs to try harder, not just slap shit on the table and compare it to Eastern fandom work.

>>2425544
Eh, it's true that the West produces a lot of crap.

And since most people go to rehost sites for Eastern fanart instead of taking it straight from pixiv or artist sites, the evidence is prefiltered, giving a positive bias.

That being said, I'm of the opinion that the necessary artistry skills have a higher frequency of occurrence in Japan than the US fandom.

>>2425544
>>2425544
10 sec in google.
http://touhou-club.deviantart.com/gallery/

Can you really say that more than 10% of the "things" are eye pleasing?

>>2425562
Somehow I'm not getting a vibe of seriousness, here.

>>2425540

Fictionpress makes me want to find a quiet hole in the ground to lie in for a few hours.

/channeling Yukiho Hagiwara

>>2425562

You can do a similar search on pixiv and a lot of the works aren't pleasing either. Albeit, its not as much as deviant art but still quite a lot.

The image attached is from a western artist, I think the guy is a Chinese American. Anyways hes done a lot of amazing paintings, and many of you will probably recognize them when you see them. Don't focus completely on the ugly side of things. The idea right now is to get people started so that they can hopefully reach the point where they can provide quality works in the future.

>>2425587

Yeah, fictionpress has a problem.

In short: If you write good fanfiction, you're still going to put it somewhere online, but if you write good original fiction, you're going to try to get published.

Here is another one of his works.

>>2425590
>>2425590
Well yeah you are right.
All I am trying to say is this, those guys need to have higher standard and not be satisfied with half hearted doodles and shit and just post them on the net.

>>2425598

Hey, you know what's even better for crushing what little spirit you might have possessed?

Writing.com.

They even have collaborative works of fiction where you can jump in and add your own garbled rubbish to the mess.
There was one that stuck out in my mind - a Furry story about a Cock Vore competition, in which largely-endowed male furs would attempt to consume others with their sperm-dripping members.

I wish I could say I was making that up.

>>2425552

And yet the first response to this is, effectively "All western stuff is crap!". This isn't a case of people not trying hard, or comparing themselves to Japanese, as the Japanese has artists who are just as "shitty", and still manages to get a good amount of attention in the western fanbase.
Take Subesuta, for example. His retarded looking, twig like lolis are UTTERLY hideous. They fail to even be cute, which is quite a feat as "anime-style" is geared toward making things look cute. Lets not even get into his sex scenes. That stuff is so bad, it can make a dedicated 2d lolicon run to 3d healthy in an instant. And yet, I see many people looking foward to, and even praising his work. It's not even like Doyora, who draws his characters ugly on purpose (And he can actually draw well), Subasuta just plain sucks.

Also, I find it funny how >>2425562 picks the worst examples of Western fanart, and tries to judge the whole as being that bad. I could probably do the same thing with Pixv, but I don't have a pixv account as of current. Meh, have this.

I guess this is as good a place as any.

>>2425625

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

>>2425604

I guess right now one of the reasons for maintaining one of these threads is to maintain interest in the topic but also to work as a transition for people who are just starting out. Slowly build up their skills and techniques here anonymously (or not) and then go move onto expressing their own ideas where ever they want once they have achieved a certain level.

Western fans complaining about the lack of Touhou fanworks is like Eastern fans complaining about the lack of Avatar fanworks.

>>2425237

Another shit-tier programmer here.

Yup, pretty much in the same boat as you except I'm still too deep in algorithm coursework to do anything useful with it.
Not only that, my time seems to disappear quickly these days.

I hate how most Touhou "fans" don't have a clue how the game works and just read/make fanon stuff all day.

That's like saying you're a fan of basketball because you think "Kobe Bryant is cute".

>>2425663
They are generally called secondaryfans or secondaryfags.

Im drawing a doujin on the life of Yuka Kazami.

Youre not going to see it, nobody is. Ill have it lying for myself thats it. I can draw to a reasonable standard, but I dont feel its good enough to show off.

Basing it alot on Tohonifuns doujin though...

Here is an attempt at Suika, though no really that good.

>>2425625
>>2425663
>>2425668

Oh hey, would you look at what I managed to unearth(again)...

http://www.writing.com/main/interact/item_id/1310014/map/1

>>2425663
take that debate to another thread, it has nothing to do with what we're talking about here.

>>2425663

That's 'cuz shootan gaems is so icky! Why does I have to play a dumb gaem to get mah loli fix! Toehoe's too hard anyway, only rowbots can beet toehoe on normal!

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>>2425671

Hey thats pretty good, I like the tooth in particular. You going to color that?

Secondary fags.

>>2425671
Hands and face.

>>2425683

I have got no idea on photoshop, or colouring... So its unlikely... Might try sometime

>>2425681

Is...is that Teh Rei?

It looks like Teh Rei.

Bracing for AWESOME.

>>2425671
Everything look fine except for the face. Look too wide imo.

>>2425681
un, yes, but why is she rei faced?

I'm currently trying to remake the PC-98 games. I have basically finished the engine, and right now it gives me about 300fps on a shitty laptop with a fuckload of bullets on screen and lots of enemies. But now I have the usual problem: I can't draw for shit, so unless I rip off every single sprite from the original games I don't think I'll get much further.

>>2425678

Touhou "fan" detected lol.

Saying "but there are a lot of shitty Japanese artists too!" is completely missing the point. It's not how many shitty artists there are, it's about how many good artists there are. If there are good artists, good stuff gets created. And the Western 2D fandom lacks good artists. For every image like >>2425590 there are thousands if not tens of thousands of good Japanese fan produced images. Saying "but there are shitty ones too!" doesn't really have anything to do with anything.

Quick sketch of Nazrin's face with reference used.

Nitori flying with a cucumber-pepsi rocket, was it?

I might clean it up and paint it later, if I don't frown the next time I look at it.

>>2425717

WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO HER DELICIOUS FLAT CHEST

YOU MONSTER

>>2425137
Link?
Or a hint, even.

Someone needs to make more parodies of Rhythm Heaven using Touhou characters like this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUZ8-3qAdGc

>>2425700
Specifics?

>>2425717
Cool. The legs seem off though.

>>2425709
no not really, I just don't want this marginally interesting debate thread to degrade into a Touhou secondaryfag vs. shooting game elitist shitstorm, since you know /jp/ is so good at those.

>>2425729
Jesus christ all of the pictures of her have tits. I'm not really a touhou fanatic, just a casual gamer, sorry bro. Will burn and do something else closer to home.

>>2425750
>Jesus christ all of the pictures of her have tits

Here's a remix of Romantic Fall that I was working on for the Aki Sisters Project. I never got a reply from the organizer but I'll still finish it sooner or later. Just got to work out the kinks whenever I find some time.

http://tindeck.com/listen/ifpl

>>2425771
http://gelbooru.com/index.php?page=post&s=list&tags=kawashiro_nitori&pid=50

I see lots of tits.

>>2425731
I probably shouldn't do this, but what the hell. I can't reason things at 4am anyway. It's on touhouproject. Archives are linked from /th/, and they're probably the fastest way to look through the stories. There's a fair amount of crap and a smattering of awesome, like the already mentioned Last Stand (not mine). Lighthouse is an utter mind trip and worth looking at for that reason. Retrospective and Resonant I both enjoyed but the authors are MIA.

etc.

Goodnight /jp/.

>>2425739
Currently building the first level of SoEW. Everything but the bombs works fine, and if I was a competent artist the graphics could be on par with MoF. I'll probably start begging for sprites or images I could convert into pixel art somewhere if and when I have finished a couple of levels.

>>2425798

Good night, Anonymous. Thanks for the info.

Touhoumon was fun.

Are there any other Touhou mods of existing games? Fire Emblem, perhaps?

>>2425824
There's Touhou Mother.

>>2425841
http://www.sendspace.com/file/2qf3qu

>>2425824
It'd be even better if it was easy to track versions and all. Unfortunately, being a ROM hack...

Is there some sort of reason why every single story on touhouproject is second-person and collaborative? I can't get into any of them.

>>2425912
A lot of them are CYOAs.

Which I despise, since I wasn't there at the time to make my own choices.

>>2425925

That shit is making me want to choke a baby.

>>2425925

I just don't like them because I want to read about Touhou characters, not some poorly-defined audience-insert wish-fulfilment protagonist.

>>2425945
lol, that too that too.

If I were to write something I probably wouldn't be afraid to go against pre-defined fanon and make up my own shit about characters.

Nothing like this shit though.

>>2425935
edgy

Touhou MUD would be awsome if:
A)People start as new characters (no thousand Reimu clones), and interact with ZUN characters.
B)No over 9000 penis jokes
>>2425925
Yup. It was fun at the beginning, but some people don't use their brains when voting and shit story up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGk8FM51xaA
Have some Touhou Dota

>>2425698

Well, I never said I was that talented. I mostly draw in class, some lessons can be awfully boring.
I tend to be creative in Physics and chemistry.
Math rules though...

I might post my skecth of Yuka when I get home...

>>2426107
Are you sure you're not me?.

>>2425773
Quite nice.

>>2426696

I dont think Im you. Then again who knows?

Are you at a top boring physics class right now?

>>2425773

I concur with >>2426769. This is a pretty good rearrange out of the very few that I have actual heard from the western fanbase.

>>2425001
I'd like to see this.

>>2425773
Have you done more of these Touhou arranges?

Well, I can't draw to save my life, but I'm a decent writer (comes from years of being GM and reading everything that falls in my hands, I guess). I have wanted to try my hand at making a couple fanfics, but I wondered whether it was worth it, given the kind of hatred everyone seems to have for fanfics. I mean, I can run the stories for my amusement just fine in my own head - if I write it down, it's because I hope someone will read and enjoy it too.

For the people asking about programming help, what exactly are you looking for?

SPOILERS: most western fanfiction is terrible because most western fan writers are writing for an audience of 1. And because they are usually attention whores who think they're the greatest thing since sliced bread, they never proofread or edit their works, because they believe everyone else should enjoy their pathetic masturbatory fantasy as much as they do. And everyone else is to lazy to start and finish the process as a whole, so the only finished works are works that were finished in less than a week by shitting onto a piece of paper.

Also, I need to find a programmer and artist who can help with Yuyukkuri's Dream Land. Time to go pester some friends. In before I enjoy my hat.

'Morning /jp/.

>>2425945
It's funny, 'cause that isn't true of any of the four I mentioned. Resonant is about Reisen, Retrospective and Last Stand about Cirno, and Lighthouse is about a guy who's fucked in the head.

It's also funny, though entirely expected, to hear such a complaint after wading through a discussion of fanfics being bad primarily for the reason (as there can hardly be any other justifiable reason) of not requiring the author to make up their own characters. People tend to avoid putting original characters in fanfics for this very reason. They are generally unwanted, despite their literary usefulness.

>>2425925
Eh. All three of mine are ongoing. Just read recent things.

>>2425190

guess no-one wants to help

>>2427248

Plus, there's much that can be done with characters that are already defined and set out.

ZUN has never explored the politics between the Noble Houses, never gone to great lengths to illustrate how they interact with each other and keep each other in check - defending their territory, expanding their borders where their rivals have relaxed their grip.

We see none of the intrigue, drama, and power-struggling that naturally occurs when there are many rival factions all opposing each other.
The idea of there being this relaxed atmosphere where humans are spirited away merely for show does not fit in very well with the tension and atmosphere of the games.

Instead...let us say that the Humans are a valuable resource, as valuable to the Youkai, Vampires, and Oni as oil, for example. Cattle. Animals to be corralled and bred for eating later.
They protect the humans from wild forest-dwelling entities, keeping a close eye on them all the while, using their mouthpieces or their loyal followers to influence the humans' way of thinking. Keine ensures that the village's children are properly brainwashed. Aya spreads propaganda about whoever she has been commissioned by to improve their image. Or she smears the reputations of others, filling the villagers' heads with misinformation.

The household that maintains control over the Human village is the one that can maintain a steady flow of imports and exports to the other houses.

>>2427347
(..cont'd)

Sometimes, a human will be abducted by lesser Youkai and used as a gift of supplication to the older, more powerful heads of the houses. Remilia can be coerced into sending Sakuya to assassinate some youkai by being presenting with a fresh, unbloodied human, or Yukari will consider attacking the Oni for a price of three plump, juicy Human villagers.

Using subtle play like these, one can manipulate and mastermind the heads of the households - Remilia, Kaguya, Yuyuko, Yukari, etc...into fighting each other and forcing their borders back, freeing up valuable resources or giving one more leeway in one's territory.

And, of course, when not sending their subordinates out to fight the others, the nobles plot how best to kill(or at least severely incapacitate)the others so that they can claim some more territory.
Bitter sieges erupt whenever one house chooses to launch a full-scale attack against another, Some sections of forest can be so hotly contested that merely walking through can result in one being beset by packs of slavering, yowling demons or youkai.

Naturally, all of this requires a guide for ordinary humans to travel through, which is where Keine comes in.
And then there are the grand balls and banquets that each house would hold, to prove their might and majesty, to say nothing of the luxuries and fleshly pleasures that the powerful heads of the households have at their fingertips.

The stuff practically writes itself. /jp/ could churn out ten VN's on all this.

>>2427347
We have always been at war with Eurasia.
Sorry, it's immediately what I thought of, sounds like the geopolitical setting of 1984.

>>2427271
Thread got too confusing

>>2427352
>Yukari will consider attacking the Oni for a price of three plump, juicy Human villagers.

No. Why would Yukari be bargained into attacking trusted friends and allies by a few humans when she can damn well go get some with no effort whatsoever? She's only mess with the oni if she deems it to be entertaining enough.

>And, of course, when not sending their subordinates out to fight the others, the nobles plot how best to kill(or at least severely incapacitate)the others so that they can claim some more territory.

Also no. Youkai powerful enough to claim substantial territory on Gensokyo don't give two shits about it. Lunarians, too, just want peace.

Youkai start incidents because they want to be entertained. That's why danmaku rules are obeyed, they allow the the youkai to get their entertainment without a faggot shrine maiden bumping in and sealing your ass.

>>2427347
You're correct in that this could be very interesting, and it's no surprise that alternate-world stories are popular for a similar reason--they ignore the canonical tea party ends and the supposed nonlethal nature of spell card duels and Gensokyo's SOP as according to Akyu.

Though another interesting point is presented by PCB's prologue, which indicates that the human village was founded by heroes and hunters and is therefore left alone, but that youkai cooking teams regularly cross the border and bring in materials from the outside (which would also explain why Akyu doesn't know about it).

>>2427369

well, if people want more original content then all they have to do is listen instead of ignoring people who are at least trying to provide a service

>>2427433
You never even said what the hell you want help with. Don't be so damn vague.

As someone who produces fanfiction and original stories, I've learned to recognize a lot of the dirty little tricks that make both work. As with all things, practice is required to improve. "Natural talent" simply means that a person gains more from equal effort, or that they learned how to learn more effectively. I've found that a person who says they have no talent usually means that they don't feel like making the effort to improve.

On the fanfiction versus original angle, It's not much of a surprise, but "originality" is long dead. The characters and stages may change, but any good story can be simplified to a few very basic premises that have been around since humans became sentient. A current work of mine can be simplified down to "Man loves woman, family/society disagrees, conflict erupts." There are a few side plots, but everything of importance can be traced back to that very simple premise. A lot of aspiring writers don't know this, and wind up getting caught up on their set pieces and costumes to such an extent that they overlook simply telling a story. Fanfiction just lets you jump into the "meat" sooner since the characters and stage have already been defined, but even the best marinades won't make rotten meat taste good. Interestingly enough, I've found fanfiction to be the harder of the two, because you're forced to operate under the constraints of someone else's work.

You Western cunts fail really hard.

>>>/co/9048854

>>2427433
You can draw? Ok, then draw.

The only people I know specifically needing artists are the VN people, if they're still active to that point.

>>2427615
>Fanfiction just lets you jump into the "meat" sooner since the characters and stage have already been defined

This brings up some interesting ideas. Particularly in short works, there's only so much you can tell without watering down the main point, so good authors gloss over things that aren't primarily relevant. When the stage is already set, that can only help.

I'm talking about writing a story that focuses on something specific, like particular characters, relations, or events. Especially with something like Touhou, where the majority of character personality is fanon, this lets you build up characters from many different perspectives. I think >>2425078 was saying this.

>you're forced to operate under the constraints of someone else's work

This is true to some extent. I've spent a lot of time going through stuff like Cage in Lunatic Runagate trying to get my work not to contradict the canon, or worrying if I'm doing justice to a character. On the other hand, some of the more interesting stories I've seen are set in a future Gensokyo or a genre shift (like 1920s American crime drama), and that lets the writer just use the characters and some reinterpreted relations and personalities and shift around or make up everything else on his own. The balance between original and canonical content varies.

>>2425945
>>2425912
Second person is traditional to CYOAs, as it is common to RPGs, as first person is common to VNs. Some of the CYOAs are written in third or first person, it's only most that are second person present-tense. Of the stories that aren't CYOAs, nor connected with them, all I can recall were third person, as is most common in Western writing.

Very few are collaborative. There's only one round robin story I can remember.

There are several advantages to the CYOA format, as well as to making the protagonist NOT a Touhou character.

One of the frequent problems in (bad) fanfiction is the assumption of knowledge of the setting. Some fanfic authors go so far as to completely omit all description. Naturally, giving the reader an outsider's perspective solves this.

Second, no insert character could ever be half as Sue-ish as the entire Touhou cast. Making it a farmboy or a modern outsider limits the protagonist's ability to screw the setting.

Third, the problem in >>2427098 of authors writing only for their own reading is directly solved by making continuation dependent on reader input.

Much of the result is still crap, because 90% of everything is crap, but it's not the fault of the medium.

Sup /jp/ pooshlmer shitting you up
Western games
http://dev.rpgmaker.net/forums/index.php?action=printpage;topic=3230.0
http://pooshlmer.com/wakaba/res/313335.html
Western webcomic
http://thmahoudan.smackjeeves.com/comics/485940/pg01/
Shitty western mods
http://pooshlmer.com/wakaba/res/315872.html
Western drawings
http://pooshlmer.com/wakaba/res/321920.html
Western fanfic
http://pooshlmer.com/wakaba/res/316223.html

OH WOW