/jp/ - Otaku Culture

If you're drunk it doesn't hurt. Everyone knows this.

Please do not post gacha whores on /jp/ kudasai.

>>23400186
She didn’t. That’s why she’s a head shorter than everyone else.

>>23400186
Kasen was also supposed to have been killed. So was Nue. The answer is they actually survived. How? We'll probably never know. ZUN doesn't do backstories because muh doujin culture.

>>23400268
Kasen seemed to have just gotten off with a lost arm. And I think Nue still has a scar somewhere, although that might just be fanart. Either way, I am curious what exactly happened in the Touhou verse considering a decapitation is a bit harder to walk away from even for a Youkai.

>ZUN doesn't do backstories because muh doujin culture.
Sometimes he does. Just, not often.

>>23400186
Douji possess youmu tho

>>23400283
It's wishful but sexy thinking. Well suited to nue.

>>23400283
SSiB and the Mokou/Kaguya story is the exception. IN was supposed to be last game in the series after all. I can almost guarantee you that ZUN will never show the identity of the Hakurei God, expand the past Hakurei shrine maidens, expand on the beginnings of Gensokyo, reveal what the connection is between Sakuya and the Lunarians is, reveal what the connection is between Maribel and Yukari, ever expand on Youki (or Tenma, or Tsukoyomi, or the Dragon God(s) or etc...), ever end Marisa's character arc involving her possibly turning into a youkai magician, ever kill Akyuu and introduce her next reincarnation, etc etc etc. These open and unfinished plot threads will remain until the series ends, as they have been for years already. There is only one reason for this and it's ZUN's attitude toward the doujin scene. He doesn't want to close any ends in Touhou because he doesn't want to take away material from doujin writers or step on their "what-if" headcanons. Touhou will never get satisfying conclusions to any plot threads or character arcs. ZUN himself says that he wants the series to turn into something like the "Cthulu Mythos" when he stops making content/dies. It's shitty for people who actually care about the canon storyline but that's how it'll always be.

>>23400455
To be fair, some of the spin off manga´s tend to have decent resolutions. On average though, I've pretty much accepted that nothing will ever be revealed or reach a satisfying conclusion in canon. Best I can hope for is the occasional Doujin that actually tries and follow canon somewhat.

>IN was supposed to be last game in the series after all.
It was?

>>23400455
>Touhou will never get satisfying conclusions to any plot threads or character arcs.
That's only true of older plot threads and character arcs. ZUN doesn't seem to have any problem with giving definitive conclusions to new ones. I agree though that ZUN is hesitant to step on any built up fan theories for his older works.

>>23400455
That depends on what you consider satisfying. It’s true that he doesn’t like to turn everything into some shitty morality tale many people seem to consider “character development”.

>>23400186
i thought one of his horn have this ring that holds it in place, so maybe its only her horn that got decapitated?
And now that i checked i guess i just recalled this comic so nvm.

>>23400787
I mean "A ending" would be satisfying already. It doesn't have to involve Yukari dying, Human Villagers liberation, or any of the other countless things that should, but never will, happen.

>>23400857
>I mean "A ending" would be satisfying already
What did he mean by this

>>23400872
That any resolution would be better than no resolution. Even if it ended with evil winning forever or all of Gensokyo blowing up, I would still take that over the alternative.

>>23400186
she was taking it easy for a while

>>23400898
No need for any "resolution" at all, what's even the point?

>>23400957
It's called good storytelling.

>>23400966
It's called thinking every story should be a Disney movie.

>>23400186
there's no telling that he did

>>23400186
Legend isn't necessarily canon in touhou, so I'm not sure why you'd assume that it is.

Like, Shuten was a boy who was human once and definitely kidnapped people. Suika is a girl who seems to not have any connection to humans and is explicitly stated to refuse to kidnap people. The Mt Ooe massacre is referred to in a spell card, but that doesn't mean that it actually happened, it's just the name of a spell card. And if it happened, there's no telling that it happened as it did in legend. The alleged canon impetus for oni leaving the surface world wasn't a massacre, it was that, in general, humans were cheating to beat and kill oni in games, so they left.

>>23401000
You do realize that it´s not just Disney movies that have endings. In fact, literally 100% of all well liked stories, Disney or otherwise, have a ending.

>>23400966
ZUN's universe is a setting, not a story. Stories take place inside it, which end, and after which new ones begin.

>>23401123
Legends aren't necessarily canon, but considering that we know 1: Kintoki exists. 2: Suika is supposed to be Shuten. And 3: The Mt Ooe massacre has been referenced. I'm going to assume something similar to the legend did happen.

>>23400966
>>23401173
define "good" storytelling, i think its completly hypothetical and not dependant what people think is good or some arbitary thing that elitist critics think is necessary for good story

>>23401197
Well, duh. My point is that he set up a lot of stories and story hooks without ever ending them.

>>23401229
Normally, I would agree with you. But "The story has a ending" is one of the rare few objective standards around.

>>23401227
Personally, same here, but I would say rather than Shuten/Suika dying she merely survived and was able to get away. My personal headcanon, based simply on their friendship, is that Yukari was involved in rescuing them. Yukari is one of Suika's closest friends, immortalized her and oni in the stars, and protected her upon her return. I like to think Suika helped out Yukari when she first arrived in the past as Maribel.

Pretty much total headcanon. We don't know either of their pasts most definitely, I'm just assuming based on their closeness and how nice Yukari has been to Suika (and how Suika still calls her a friend despite being critical of how Yukari operates)

>>23401256
ending? yes. good story? maybe? Kinda depends from reader or watcher of story.

>>23401271
It's certainly possible. Personally though, I kind of like the idea that Kintoki either spared her or she was able to get away due to sheer luck. Either way, the whole experience caused her to mend her ways. Going from the fierce Oni of legend, to the mostly harmless goofball she is today.

I mean, assuming that she did get her head chopped off, that had to have been a pretty humbling experience.

>>23401256
Every Touhou work tells a story that has a beginning and end. Just because a plot point was never explained in detail doesn't mean the story isn't over. Tolkien never did tell us who Tom Bombadil was, but the Lord of the Rings is a finished story anyway.

>>23401256
>Normally, I would agree with you. But "The story has a ending" is one of the rare few objective standards around.
it isn't though

the non-ending is a valid ending. That said even non-endings tend to not feel "incomplete". In the case of Touhou it's not a constant narrative, so honestly if it ever suddenly stopped I personally wouldn't feel disappointed. I wouldn't say ZUN's made any promises about future story events aside from Akyuu confronting death, and he addressed that in an interview saying she simply won't die. It's not like 40k where there are a bunch of inevitable "to-happen" events. Instead Touhous unresolved matters are just "something happened in the past, and we don't know what it was". That can be aggravating, sure, but it's also not needed for a story.

>>23401281
Again, there is a 100% correlation between "Story is good" and "story has a ending". Just like there is a 100% correlation between "Food is edible" and "Food is good".

>>23401291
Okay, but Touhou Project isn't a story.

>>23401291
correlation have nothing to do with something someone like or not, and it is just that.
either person like the story or not ending or without.
and i thought ending is part of story no matter what, unless i just missed something in depate which is possible since i am just having fun having drink and such.

>>23401289
Sure. But who Tom Bombadil is was never a important plotpoint. It's more like if the LoTR ended with everybody just kind of forgetting about the ring.

>>23401290
>the non-ending is a valid ending.
There isn't really such a thing as a "non ending". You have ambiguous endings, sure. But those aren't the same thing as a story just kind of stopping in the middle.

>hat said even non-endings tend to not feel "incomplete". In the case of Touhou it's not a constant narrative, so honestly if it ever suddenly stopped I personally wouldn't feel disappointed. I wouldn't say ZUN's made any promises about future story events aside from Akyuu confronting death, and he addressed that in an interview saying she simply won't die. It's not like 40k where there are a bunch of inevitable "to-happen" events. Instead Touhous unresolved matters are just "something happened in the past, and we don't know what it was". That can be aggravating, sure, but it's also not needed for a story.
I kind of half agree. Setting things up and then now following up on them doesn't have to be a deal breaker. But, I do still think it's just kind of lazy and bad writing. Especially when their doesn't seem to be much of a point behind it. Like, there isn't any reason not to follow up on everything that he's set up expect that he's seemingly afraid of fan backlash.

>>23401361
Bit of advice, don't write while ridiculously drunk.

>>23400455
Gosh I hate how my post turned into someone else's autism this quickly.
>>23400569
Yeah he said it in some interview. IN was actually planned before he even started working on EoSD. It was the final entry because when he wasn't working at Taito, he spent all of his free time working on his doujin games.
>>23400706
Eh whatever there's new ones know like with Okin and Miko and stuff and basically the entirety of Hell (which we still haven't seen yet) but I hope he actually does something with those.
>>23400787
Wasn't ever talking about Grimsokyo bullshit. Just loose ends that will probably never be tied up.

>>23401376
thanks, still point stands unless i missed something, which you can surely point me.

>>23401372
I don't see how you can complain that we never found out what Sakuya's one-line special moon magic was but then turn around and claim that it's perfectly find not to know who Tom Bombadil was.

>It's more like if the LoTR ended with everybody just kind of forgetting about the ring.
Every installment of Touhou Project resolves the primary plot point which that installment is about.

>Like, there isn't any reason not to follow up on everything that he's set up expect that he's seemingly afraid of fan backlash.
ZUN is happy with the Touhou universe in its current state and doesn't want to make any major changes to it. Over ten years ago he decided that time doesn't actually pass in Touhou and none of the characters are ever actually going to get older. You can argue that this is shit writing but you don't need to invent conspiracy theories about why he did it.

>>23401380
I've done it before. It is quite fun but most times annoying.
On boards with shizos, it's like a golden hook lined with cheddar. Back then it was funny, now it isn't.

>>23401372
He's not afraid of fan backlash. I think he just doesn't go into it because he doesn't care to. Touhou is always about moving on, and rarely does it examine the past. In fact, the only example I can think of of a backstories explained outside of their game is for IN with the Bougetsushou arc. You get Kaguya, Mokou, the Watatsukis, and Mokou's backstory. You even get the two Reisens, a bit. ZUN hasn't done anything else like that since, for whatever reason. I say it's because it's not his preference, because he obviously doesn't always MIND dumping a long backstory, but he tends to do it in a single game's profile. Even stuff like the extra materials from Akyuu don't really give anything extra about characters' pasts.

>>23400455
>reveal what the connection is between Maribel and Yukari
he did, fairly explicitly

They're the same person, which is why Maribel (past version) is named Hearn and Yukari (future version) is named Yakumo, because of Lafcadio. Like he said that was what the connection was outright, though he didn't say "they're the same person". It's a "figure out the obvious, numbskulls" sort of thing. Not everything needs to be explicit to be good storytelling or something. There's something neat in knowing they're the same, but also knowing it HASN'T been said outright.

>>23401395
I don't even know what your point was, honestly. It was so hard to read.

>>23401408
>I don't see how you can complain that we never found out what Sakuya's one-line special moon magic was but then turn around and claim that it's perfectly find not to know who Tom Bombadil was.
I think it's fine if we never discover Sakuya's connection with the Lunarians, actually. Hell, I even think it would be perfectly okay if we never discover Sakuya's backstory in general. It's more the backstory of the actual main characters that I have a problem with.

>Every installment of Touhou Project resolves the primary plot point which that installment is about.
Most of the lingering plot threads remain unresolved. Hell, most of the time, not much expect the actual incident is resolved.

>ZUN is happy with the Touhou universe in its current state and doesn't want to make any major changes to it.
No, he isn't. The man has constantly been changing the Touhou universe.

>Over ten years ago he decided that time doesn't actually pass in Touhou and none of the characters are ever actually going to get older.
I don't even have a problem with that if he was just more consistent about it.

>>23401445
Again, I kind of half agree with this. Touhou is very much about examining the past, insofar that most of the plots are driven by the past actions of characters. It's more that Touhou rarely takes time to look back at its own past. Not helped by the fact that continuity is often loose and prone to changing. Especially since a massive amount of the elements that would normally be fundamental to a story aren't really present.

Who knows the end? What has risen may sink, and what has sunk may rise. Loathsomeness waits and dreams in the deep, and decay spreads over the tottering cities of men

Just a gentle reminder that wanting every single plot thread neatly resolved and every single plot point fully explained is a symptom of autism.

Holy shit milo is farming that reddit gold here again. Please do not reply.

who?

I’m too tired to care. I just hope you all die a horrible death.

>>23403769
cared enough to bump this ruined thread apparently
kill yourself

>>23401504
>It's more the backstory of the actual main characters that I have a problem with.
Sakuya is an actual main character, technically.

>>23403790
put a bullet in your head.
an hour on /jp/ means page the top of page 3 or the middle of page 2 if the board is moving slow.

>>23400213
oh im sorry
https://twitter.com/Touhou_CB/status/1248491148319936513

>>23404072
It´s a pretty big "Technically".

>>23402086
Reminder that thinking "Every single one of them" and "Some of the big ones" means the exact same thing is a symptom of being a retard.

>>23405790

>>23400186
she got short

>>23405849
Well, aren't you a clever little boy?

>>23405790
At this point I actually feel bad for teasing you.

>>23406038
Good. That kind of thinking is the first step of growth.

what's with those threads attracting crossboarding fags
there's always this one moron that writes "hurr why Touhou isn't like my ebin fanfiction durr" walls of texts

>>23406110
Just be happy that people are actually trying to discuss canon for once.

>>23406110
I'll let you in on a secret, it's always the same person too.

>discuss canon
saying that ZUN sucks because he refuses to give characters backstory or any kind of "muh superior opinion" post isn't discussion, that's just TV tropes tier shit-flinging
>>23406143
no shit, the dude should just get a trip

>>23406110
This thread was linked somewhere else.

>>23406192
>saying that ZUN sucks because he refuses to give characters backstory or any kind of "muh superior opinion" post isn't discussion
1: Yes, it is. 2: It's still better than 99% of content on this board. 3: That wasn't my argument anyway. Try again.

>>23406013
yes, and you're a retarded adult

>>23400186
subhuman fate addicted people are not allowed on /jp/. "please", leave

>>23402612
who?

>>23404764
canonball sucks

>>23406126
The problem with discussing any aspect of canon in /jp/ is that literally no matter what the thread is about, the same person will come along and hijack the thread to be about his own personal issues with Touhou every single time.

>>23400186
maybe

>>23411132
Not really. While there was some vague arguments here and there about the quality of Touhou as a franchise, most of the discussion here so far has been about canon.

>>23412002
This doesn't contradict his post.

>>23400186
go away fgo nigger

zun must die

>>23408705
touhou sucks

Nah, probably not

Maybe.

>>23429458
That can't be Shuten. Why isn't she a cute anime girl?

>>23429458
Cute...

Cancer

>>23429458
Based Nioh poster.
Here's an Orin for you.

milo has to show up every time

>>23400186

>>23454444
It´s TheMilo, you pleb.

never