/jp/ - Otaku Culture

>>22134279
Hate everything with people trying to do anything "Serious" with characters
Even more Zounose and Alison

>>22134291
You're not reading Alison right.

>>22134279
i really fucking hate when my lady, Yuyuko, is interpreted as a one dimensional eating machine. YYK is smart and perceptive! okay?

I absolutely detest every single fan interpretation of Sanae to the core of my soul. They make no sense and are dead and decayed memes at this point. Her actual character is a lot more entertaining.

>>22134556
and hungry

I wish people would stick to the canon autistic/unsocialized and calm Flandre instead of making her out to be a sadistic, psychopathic monster.

>>22134586
Wacky slut Sanae is funnier

>>22134556
Youre not fooling anyone myon, we all know shes a gluttonous eater

Slut Kasen. She is not a slut.

>>22134556
Pretty sure in canon she's both a hunger machine and a smart, she's about as perceptive as Yukari but likes to pretend she doesn't know shit.

>>22134586
Care to enlighten me about her personality?
I want to appreciate her properly as well but I'm kinda in the dark.
All I know is she's kinda excitable but sometimes to the point of rude, but I could be wrong.

>>22134670
seconding this
Kasen is pure

>>22134291
But Touhou canon is serious sometimes?

>>22134291
Fuck you Alison is based

I just hate most, if not all, Touhou ships in general. Marisa and Alice specifically because I don't think they have that kind of chemistry, and Marisa/Reimu for enforcing this idea that two characters can't be close friends without wanting to fuck.
Also Reimu is way more gay for Kosuzu than she ever was for Marisa.

>>22134698
Not him but it can be a bit hard to pin down in part because she has an actual character arc, a rarity in Touhou.
She goes from arrogant to a bit nutty to matured (relatively) and independent.
If I had to plaster a few traits on her, though, I guess I'd say she's straight laced, a bit naive, loyal, and generally a huge nerd. At least that's how I interpret her.

>>22134805
>Also Reimu is way more gay for Kosuzu than she ever was for Marisa.
That's my new ship.

I like interpretations of Ran as an oneesan type who dotes on Chen as a caretaker would. Lolicon Ran interpretations make me sad. She'd never want to hurt Chen. Don't do my sweet but protective waifu so dirty.

>>22134291
>alinson
>serious
Excuse me what the fuck?

>>22134291
Bait post

>>22134942
ran is literally just a supercomputer slave with a new "shikigami" personality installed onto her according to canon. the fox you waifued is not the real ran, but a toy by yukari. that's why yukari doesn't feel bad smacking her with the umbrella

>>22135087
it's still my favorite interpretation, anon. And I hate it when people depict Ran as a lolicon.

I don't know if I like the interpretation of Junki being an actual psychopath but I do like the HecaJun ship where Hecatia helps her cope and heal her past wounds

Like: Any time Momiji has some character outside of being Aya's "rabid pet dog". Seriously, what's with that. Zounose's in particular is my favorite.

Dislike: When a character gets abusive, even for comedy. Fuantei's Byakuren can be an asshole like in that diet doujin. Miko did nothing wrong, damn it.

My favourite is relatively less popular, so I don't see many interpretations I dislike. Some are kind of interesting too, like her being a delinquent or that she's starting to apotheosize her friend.

>>22134279
Like:
Yuyuko as Kirby on steroids
Eiki as a bossy brat loli
Komachi as a comically lazy tittymonster
Sakuya as secretly in love with Remilia
Retarded Utsuho
Mima as Marisa's mentor
Mistress Yuuka
Junko wanting to groom Reisen as her replacement kid

Dislike:
Rumia as a serious threat
Dork Youmu. I just don't get it at all.
MarisaxReimu

>>22134643
It was annoying ten years ago and it's just fucking tiresome now. It's like if Sakuya threads were still full of people shitposting about pads. Find a new view of a character, one with at least a slight basis in canon.

>>22135429
>Dork Youmu. I just don't get it at all
That might be because you've never read any of Touhou's printworks.

>>22135543
Which one has "dork" Youmu?

>>22135429

I'm still stuck with fanon overpowered Yukari from the PCB era.

>>22135546
CoLA, SSiB, OaSP, WaHH and VFiS, to name a few. Even in IN she's constantly being teased and made fun of by Yuyuko. Perplexing how you managed to miss her main character traits.

>>22135546
Her own chapter in CiLR.

>>22135696
can she cut her dorkness with her hakcucken and bukkaken?

>>22135429
Do you still laugh at PAD jokes too?

>>22134805
>Reimu is way more gay for Kosuzu than she ever was for Marisa.
She literally just cares about her, like an older sister. She cares about kids, consistently.

You could genuinely argue Reimu and Marisa, on the other hand, are like a married couple. This being said they NEVER demonstrate any actual romance or attraction to one another, they're just extremely close. You could use a sister comparison for them as well, but with them being very close in age.

I like the idea that Mokou and Kaguya eventually grew to be friends with a love/hate relationship after they've been at each other's necks for so long.

I can imagine them casually playing Mahjong and sipping tea after rampaging through the forest and killing each other several times.

>>22135546
Literally any time Youmu shows up she demonstrates how much of a dork she is. Every single time.

>>22135429
Bad post.

>>22134698
Sanae's quirk is that she "isn't" rude, at least not intentionally. She's kind of socially awkward owing to the fact that she's half outside world highschooler, half goddess in training. She's knowledgeable but naive, a bit like George W. Bush; someone with a whole lot of power but very little idea on how to actually use it.

>>22135116
shes not a lolicon but shes not a mom either shes just a dumb computer

>>22134279
I dislike all fan interpretations that have no relation to actual character and are just memes caused by some single phrase or fan video or whatever:

glutton Yuyuko
slut Sanae
masochist Tenshi
creepy stalker Alice
baby Chen
lolicon Ran
sadist Yuuka
ditzy Shou
NEET Kaguya

Also some fan takes that exaggerate some character traits beyond all reason, like absurdly powerful godlike Yukari, or super ripped Yuugi.

>>22137174
Not liking sadist Yuuka is not okay.

>>22137174
The others I agree, but ditzy Shou does make sense since she always loses her pagoda. Glutton Yuyuko also makes sense since in IN her and Youmu's entire route was a "food trip" to Yuyuko, not to mention in HM's background Youmu was constantly feeding her food.

>>22137202
>she always loses her pagoda.
She only lose it once.
When are other instances where she lose the pagoda other than in UFO?

>>22137174
I dunno, at least Kaguya being a Neet jokes have some basis, it's fine as long as it doesn't turn into full on "EIRIN HELP ME" tier stuff.
Same could be said of sadist Yuuka. An obvious exaggeration of her canon characteristics, but at least it's an exaggeration founded on a basis.

>>22137202
>ditzy Shou does make sense since she always loses her pagoda
Once.
> her and Youmu's entire route was a "food trip" to Yuyuko
It was a joke. She didn't actually eat anything.

>>22137201
Your meme stopped being funny 10 years ago.

>>22137174
Yuuka canonically likes to tease weaklings for fun and has a weird sense of humor. It makes sense why she's sometimes depicted as a sadist, especially given how she behaved in MS.

>>22137284
Fitting then that a joke for an entire route became a popular recurring fan joke.

>>22137174
Know what I dislike?
People thinking
>glutton Yuyuko

is just a meme based off a single phrase of fan video. Go play the games and read the print works.

>>22137284
There's also how hungry she is in SSiB, her references to food in IaMP, and her wanting a feast in CiLR.

we need more people writing sakuya as the awkward human she is rather than the stereotypica perfect meido or obsessed with lolis
though i guess its too close to canon to be considered headcanon, i just want to see fans do something different with her

dislike: evil Yukari
like: untrustworthy and manipulative, but has everyone's best interest in mind Yukari

>>22134279
I broke the Tenshi posting.
I regret it to this day.

Marisa, I hate the western the casuals obsession with her. For fucks sake she's the worst yokel and thief in Gensokyo and her status as 'player two' doesn't help. Make Youmu the new Marisa. The casuals would be slightly more tolerable.
Rapey Sanae. The girls from the outside world, stop making her your stand-in for what you'd do to the Gensokyo girls if you had the power.
Konpaku is alright, it'd be nice to see a little more slice of life with her.
Sakuya and overall the EoSD cast. Meme bait, they're ruined characters at this point. Same for Kaguya and Tewi. Reisen and her master almost fall in this ruined character category if ZUN didn't rescue them in the canon story occasionally. Particularly, Reisen in a suit is ruined.
Alice, alright if she's doing mage things. Otherwise the ship with Marisa can sometimes come off as strange.
Yukari, the only thing the fandom cannot scratch. Her ambiguous mastermind nature never falters and only on occasion will she be reduced to a onenote troll.
Aya, the pantyshot meme has mostly passed. So, it's alright. Her character mostly become a sort of mentor like tengu who's still eager to chase the next story.
After MoF the fandom shorts out kind of for me.

>>22139770
Imagine hating Marisa, the best protagonist.

>>22139475
what you described is the canon yukari

Reminder: Flanderized characters don't exist in canon Touhou
Yes, Youmu is a bit of a chuuni but not in the way fanworks portray her. Same goes for other common shitty fan portrayals. You can't deny this no matter how hard you scream and cry.

>>22139821
She should stay as manga character, and Reimu should be the icon for the games. I won't deny her character is important to Reimu's own.

>>22139193
How is Sakuya awkward? In most instances in non-game appearance, she's a bit more mischievous than anything.

>>22139843
I mean, anon, think about what you're saying seriously

Canonically, Youmu wore a moustache and beard for days after being convinced by a plate-woman that she was a hermit, and she maintained this image WHILE Yuyuko paraded her around because that is fucking retarded

She also "spied" on Patchouli by muttering to herself and openly taking notes while "hiding" in her library.

And so many other stupid, dorky things.

>>22139835
the latter? yeah, I know. I like when they portray canon Yukari over generic evil

>>22139770
Finally notes on what ruined characters are. Ruined characters are those so blemished by fandom it's left a void that cannot be filled. The memes will forever pour out these characters and the locations associated with them, forever defining them.

>>22140019
Is Momiji ruined or has she gone further beyond?

>>22140042
Japan isn't affected by the local memes. If you just clap your hands and honestly ignore the english
speaking fandom, Momiji is redeemable. Only if, you can block out the casuals. That being said on Momiji she's literally just a satellite character for Aya and sometimes Hatate open to interpretation.

Portraying Marisa as a yeehaw rootin' tootin' cowgirl is something that irrationally pisses me off.
Game translators like doing this for some reason.

Image related

>>22140042
She's beyond help. The jap already ruined her by depicting her as typical dog girl 80% of the time.
The western only picked up what the japs have already done.

>>22140138
>>22140120
>>22140042
I have always loved her even if she is basically a nothing in canon. The memes hurt, especially at first, and the horrible threads that are made about her don't help either but in the end those things don't matter to me. I love her for what she is and do my best to ignore the bad things.

I don't really like how most artists depict Komachi and Eiki as the antithesis of each other. Like, you have slacker Komachi with the big jugs and the older sister attitude, and then you have the Yama who's a brat that proceeds to berate and chide everything she sees. That's not how it works at all.
I also don't like how Meiling is portrayed as a lazy and incompetent bum, and that depiction kind of bled its way into canon. I don't really mind it if it's played for humor, but turning that into a cornerstone for her character? That's not okay.

>>22141741
Well, everything about Komachi and Eiki other than their body proportions are based on canon, at least.

>>22139878
her interactions with the other humans seem really "stiff" if that makes sense? likely because she's lives a way different life than them, like in wahh when she loses the chupacabra everyones freaking out and she's just smiling and standing there.
its also a really minor detail and probably doesn't mean much in the long run but when sakuya does talk in the mangas (ssib mostly) her speech bubbles overlap over others often which makes me think she talks over people.
maybe awkward isn't the right word for her, but anytime sakuya doesn't do her usual maid duties or talk to anyone outside of sdm she seems to have a whole different side to her. i just wanna see fans explore it more.

>>22134698
She's just a regular high school girl, that's what makes her stand out.

>>22140110
Translators that have no idea how to localize ze just turn it into a lazy Texan drawl, despite that being a 4kids tier decision.

>>22140019
There is no such thing as "ruined" characters in 2hu, because 2hus are completely subjectively defined per person, only ruined if you choose to see them like that.

>>22141971
What makes being high school girl stands out? There are different kind of high school girls.
Besides, it should've stopped being a thing after staying for years in Gensokyo.

>>22142036
Thing thing is, I've thought about that. It's just some characters are likely to be revealed by memes to others.
That first impression sticks, psychopathic Flandre will stick around it's a lot of individuals first exposure. The SDM being exploded will stick because it's common plot in fan manga. The SDM cast is a bunch of memes at this point. From Cirno to Flandre.

>>22142048
She's a girl her age from our world, she isn't an otaku caricature of the 16yo schoolgirl outside of fanworks like Memories of Phantasm, this makes her special. Even after spending years in Gensokyo,she'd still have that charm.

>>22142036
>2hus are completely subjectively defined per person
No they aren't.

>>22142052
The first impression sticks isn't true. The memes are replaced by developing subjective interpretations, using the ZUN-related content as the baseline ground-zero, you're speaking as if no one except tertiary fans is a 2hu fan.

>>22142079
Explain how they aren't.

>>22142103
A lot are trinaries though

>>22142169
What does that change?

>>22142110
Because official works exist?
Unless you want to tell me pedo sakuya with pads doesn't ruin Sakuya's character. Touhou characters aren't blank canvases.

>>22142048
>What makes being high school girl stands out?
No one in Gensokyo goes to any schooling besides child villagers, so anything higher than the equivalent of elementary school is a novelty to them. And that's obviously not even getting into the fact that a contemporary Japanese high school girl from the outside is the equivalent of an eccentric youkai in how much it diverges from the norm.

>>22142176
It doesn't ruin her character, that's just someone's subjective interpretations of her, and while they aren't blank canvases, the characterization differs from person to person based on what they are lead to believe, and even official works could be excused as ZUN's interpretations.

>>22137174
>sadist Yuuka
Did you even play MS?

>>22142173
The types who become secondaries are primaries. It's like asking what influences who comes into our board? When we get flooded every Cirno day.

>>22142216
What does that change?

>>22134279
>Dislike
Reimu poor, she eats dirt DIRT YOU GET IT LITERAL DIIIIRT
Kleptomaniac Marisa, she cut that out in canon by this point
Everything EoSD except Cirno. I especially hate non-characters, meaning Daiyousei, Koakuma and Flandre
Chen and Rin being cute fluffy kitties. Chen is pretty feral, and Rin is cunning and not cuddly
Alice liking Marisa
Yukari being a pervert
Aya being a pantyshot obsessed pervert
Momiji, Kyoko, Kagerou and Aunn being cute cuddly doggies, especially Momiji. In her case there's also a residual dislike because /pol/ tertiaries have hijacked her a few years ago
Suwako being all frog all the time
Dork Satori

>Like
Sleepy Yukari
Womanlet Eiki
Emo Hatate

And I kinda expected to remember more things I like, but I either don't care for many of them or I can't separate fan interpretations from canon.

>>22142228
The amount of fans who'll probably buy an official or fan game when they get released onto steam.

>>22142241
>non-characters
>Flandre
I'm sorry what?
>Chen is pretty feral
I get what you mean with Chen, but Yukari does treat her like a house cat, cattail and all.

>>22142244
What harmful thing does that end up causing that irreparably damages 2hu?

>>22142241
Flandre is a NEET, that's a character

>>22142266
Bsides giving ZUN enough beer to kill his lever?

>>22142203
> even official works could be excused as ZUN's interpretations.
That's not how interpretations work. An author has authority over the characters, and an author's intent exceeds anything made by fans in terms of say.
This is why canon is far more respected than fanon in every case, since fanon tends to look to the canon to make something of it. This is why many uncharacteristic interpretations of characters are depicted as being ruined by it, since at that point you could've just made an entirely different character at all.
Making a character so unbelievably different betrays the idea of using a preexisting character, and ruins said character in your work. What you're talking about is a super post-modern attempt of looking at it, and doesn't take the idea that even in subjective and opinionated reasoning, some ideas are more right than others.
If someone tells you Evangelion was about a chicken and a horse taking care of a frog, then calls it their subjective interpretation, it doesn't make it any less stupid.
This is also why stuff like cookie are barely considered Touhou any more. Why would they be when the only Touhou they're using are the character designs, and nothing else?

>>22142263
>>22142268
Yeah I guess I went too far with labeling her as a non-character. Still, her disproportional popularity annoys the hell out of me.

>>22142241
>Reimu poor, she eats dirt DIRT YOU GET IT LITERAL DIIIIRT
She literally died from eating rotten food, granted that was attributed more to her extreme laziness than to poverty.

>>22134279
I like "10,000 yen" poverty Reimu because it's oddly wholesome feeling.

>>22142293
Regarding Flan's popularity, is it mostly because of her design and her theme and its association with memes?
Hell, I don't even know what Flan's canon character is supposed to be. Do the fans fill it in with what they see in-game, and then, it spread from one guy to another in a way that Chinese whispers does?

>>22142325
UN Owen memes are doing its thing, but I personally blame it on the fact that EoSD is the first game nearly everyone gets into. Like if DDC was the first Windows game, everyone and their mother would be memeing Raiko or Benben, and Flan would be a nobody. Though these days it might be less EoSD popularity and more self-sustaining - fans like Flandre because she has a ton of content created over the years and Flandre gets new content because fans like her.

>>22142280
The author has authority over how they view their work, authors who don't want something to be subjectively defined by the reader should either find a way to make subjective interpretations impossible, or not release it. ZUN has never shown a problem with people doing whatever they want with his works, his works are loosely defined since the get-go.
>Making a character so unbelievably different betrays the idea of using a preexisting character
Agreed to an extent, canon should be used as a baseline, but if a character is enhanced by interpretations and fanon, what is the harm?
>and opinionated reasoning, some ideas are more right than others.
This is based on perception, some ideas are more right than others, if those ideas are perceived as more right by the individual. It's all about perception.
>If someone tells you Evangelion was about a chicken and a horse taking care of a frog, then calls it their subjective interpretation, it doesn't make it any less stupid
True, but that doesn't invalidate it.
I don't really know much about COOKIE.

>>22142241
>Chen being cute fluffy kitties

Hmm about that

>>22142379
Who said anything about authors not wanting their works to interpreted? That's not the implication.
The implication is that there's a baseline and an origin to how characters act in the original author's work. They are not blank canvases.
How people perceive a certain fan interpretation depends on what they take from the character, and how they form and exaggerate said character in their own works. Things like pedo Sakuya have zero basis, and are therefore often looked down upon.
>what is the harm?
The harm is flanderization and stagnation in fanwork, and that fans will look more to the bastardized fan interpretation more than the canon. This has happened many times in Touhou and has annoyed many.
>It's all about perception.
Once again, this is a very post-modern approach to literary analysis. As "free" as literature is, it isn't inherently chaotic. It has a structure.
There's authority in literature, and the original author's words are more respected than some rando. Why do you think it's called author in the first place?
>True, but that doesn't invalidate it.
No, but it ruins it, as per the original point. Imagine how hardcore fans would think if at that point everyone else thought Evangelion was about a chicken and a horse.

>>22142483
>The implication is that there's a baseline and an origin to how characters act in the original author's work. They are not blank canvases
Agreed,
>How people perceive a certain fan interpretation depends on what they take from the character, and how they form and exaggerate said character in their own works. Things like pedo Sakuya have zero basis, and are therefore often looked down upon
but if those interpretations are where the reader was lead to, naturally, based on their own personal experience of the work, how is it different? If you asked the first person to believe in pedo meido, they'd probably have arrived at that interpretation naturally from playing the game.
>The harm is flanderization and stagnation in fanwork, and that fans will look more to the bastardized fan interpretation more than the canon. This has happened many times in Touhou and has annoyed many
If fanwork stagnates and flandrizes, that's the choice of individual fanwork-makers, fanworks that aren't that will not cease to exist or to be produced because of that, tertiary or secondary fans will become primaries if they want to, so overall, this doesn't cause real harm.
>re's authority in literature, and the original author's words are more respected than some rando. Why do you think it's called author in the first place
With 2hu, every fan is technically just as much the author as ZUN himself is, it's subjective collaboration. No one who has headcanons or interpretations believes they are the authority on the work for anyone other than themselves, they define for themselves.
>No, but it ruins it, as per the original point. Imagine how hardcore fans would think if at that point everyone else thought Evangelion was about a chicken and a horse.
I'm a hardcore fan, and wouldn't really care, because it doesn't affect how I see it, and arguing with people who believe that would be novel. That'd be a lot fresher than Rei v. Asus ad infinitum, more variety than some of the newer ideas.

>>22142624
>based on their own personal experience of the work, how is it different?
Because stupid people exist, anon. Not every opinion is weighted at the same regard, not just in Touhou. If someone went to a conclusion to when there was no path leading to it to begin with, it becomes a problem. Literature needs structure because of complications like this.
> that's the choice of individual fanwork-makers
Trends exist, and other people follow it. This is why fans dislike certain interpretations to begin with, when they overshadow the canon so much it almost swallows it.
>With 2hu, every fan is technically just as much the author as ZUN himself is, it's subjective collaboration
Where the hell are you getting this? Just because the Touhou fandom is dedicated doesn't make it any different from any other literary work.
Your headcanon does, in no way, have as much authority as ZUN has over Touhou. ZUN can say "that's not how it works buddy" on your doujin and it would be considered instantly null. A fan can't do that to ZUN.

And the idea of people misinterpreting something so hard seems fun to you now. Wait until people add in all sorts of extravagant ideas and politics and see how annoyed people get.

>>22142280
There's a level of transformation when a text leaves the authors hands. I agree overt differences aren't exceptable but if you can actually argue your interpretation unless zun himself says no that interpretation it is a valid interpretation. There's only so much zun shows us, and that translations will permit. So 2hus have some subjectiveness in our opinions

>>22142721
I didn't argue against anything you just said. In a sense, no interpretation is truly valid, no matter how accurate or stupid it is since in the end it's simply an interpretation. But I'm not talking about validation, here.
We're talking about ruining a character, which many off-base interpretations do.

Hate:
Diapers
Smelly feet
Bedwetting
Slut Sanae
Fairy C*nny

Like:
Wholesome 2hus

>>22142810
Do the diaperposters actually like diaper2hus?
At this point I think they're just doing it to get (you)s.

>>22142810
t. weak mortal lungs

>>22142717
>Literature needs structure because of complications like this
There's really no reason why, because no real harm is done, structure defeats joy.
>Trends exist, and other people follow it. This is why fans dislike certain interpretations to begin with, when they overshadow the canon so much it almost swallows it
It's not really possible for canon to be swallowed, because fanon doesn't erase the original things ZUN created, or has said.
>Your headcanon does, in no way, have as much authority as ZUN has over Touhou
>ZUN can say "that's not how it works buddy" on your doujin and it would be considered instantly null. A fan can't do that to ZUN
It does for my understanding and perspective of Touhou, but for no one else's, as specified, you misunderstood the meaning. If it does define for anyone else, that is their personal choice, to let others define for them. If ZUN goes out of his way to do that, that will be simply him saying "that doesn't fit my vision of Touhou", but that doesn't change that it fits my vision and perspective of Touhou, unless I choose to let ZUN define it for me.
>And the idea of people misinterpreting something so hard seems fun to you now. Wait until people add in all sorts of extravagant ideas and politics and see how annoyed people get
If it gets that bad, there's a thing called filtering it out, ignoring it. When people started believing that The God Emperor of Mankind is some political candidate no one except them and their adversaries actually care about anymore, I laughed and proceeded to ignore it, like anyone can do with anything like that. People will engage if they want to, crap like that gains traction because of shock value, not because of meaningfulness.

>>22142828
I can confirm

>>22142828
Anyone with half a brain would immediately recognize them as trolls and ignore their posts.

>>22142810
>Hate:
>Fairy C*nny
How does it feel being the queen of fruits?

>>22142852
To think literature needs no structure is downright foolish. Even post-structuralism movements like Jacques Derrida's deconstructions notes on how literature needs some sort of structure.
And yes, it can overshadow canon. It might not be able to erase but it'll be able to be bigger than it and more prevalent.
>If ZUN goes out of his way to do that, that will be simply him saying "that doesn't fit my vision of Touhou"
And his vision of Touhou far outranks the authority and the vision of others in regards to Touhou. Again, we're talking about how characters can be ruined. Don't how you spun that to "sure, but it's not ruined for me".
You see, your arguments focus a lot on individualism. However, we are talking about fan work, something inherently dependent on the works of others and the community behind it. You can't just handwave it to dependent on the individual.
And similarly, you can't just handwave authority and trends like that either, which is what happened to the so called God Emperor. No matter how you try to ignore it, if you're in that country you will get affected by it.

Similarly, if you try to ignore trends or interpretations you don't like, if they get popular enough your experience will get affected by it. Suddenly your favorite doujin circle writes about pads and your favorite artist draws Kancolle instead. You're in a community and not closed-off to your own interpretations.

>>22142241
>Kleptomaniac Marisa, she cut that out in canon by this point
Maybe. She still seems to be a hoarder at least.

Alice does like Marisa, unless you mean romantically.

>>22142325
Flan is easy to like for her striking design and seemingly generic crazy girl personality.

In actuality she's a slightly-off hikikomori who can definitely be dangerous but for the most part would rather keep to herself. She's also kind of a prick to her sister, in a teasing way. There isn't much to her character, but that's what we've got.

Surprisingly, despite plainly not wanting to leave, she actually joined Remilia in the fireworks contest of GoU.

>>22142418
what this dude said, cute fluffy kitties can be feral and cunning too, theyre cats for gods sake. if anyone is being 1 dimensional its you.
this whole thing about fanon interpretations is a pointless discussion anyway, these charaters can be interpreted in any damn way a person pleases, thats why these fan interpretations exist anyway, theyre just the ones that got popular. theres nothing wrong with straying from canon anyway

>>22142031
Translations in general are just 4kids. What's funny is that they don't want their translations sounding like 4kids, and have a separate patch just for those. Ironic. Why can't they just use the wiki translations instead of running everything through three languages in Google translate?

>>22142297
Almost died. Almost.

>>22144052
Only because Marisa fed her magic moon pills laced with whatever forbidden medicine Eirin was messing with at the time.

>>22134942
Not all lolicons want to "harm" anyone

>>22143824
You do know you can just make an autismo patch that grabs everything from the wiki if you want it so badly, right

>>22144339
Yeah, but I don't have the time, patience, or motivation for that. They'd probably delete it anyway, if the VD drama is anything to go by.

>>22137202
HM was likely Twilight Frontier perpetuating the meme

>>22144382
That wasn't a separate patch
And if you're that paranoid you can go the OkinaPatch route and no one will stop you

>>22144476
What's this OkinaPatch?

>>22144508

>>22144569

>>22144275
Ran's type of lolicon is definitely the one to molest Chen if left alone.

>>22143824
That's pretty much identical to the wiki translation. Not a good example.

>>22145705
The wiki has a better sentence structure, calling it identical is insulting.

>>22144469
do they still live?

KKHTA the only canon

>>22134586
The problem is that, while her actual character is somewhat entertaining, it's about as thin as a piece of paper.

>>22134279
Yukari as a genuinely good person still bugs the shit out of me. Even if you view all of her actions in the most favorable light possible. She is still a utterly ruthless murderer with a body count that would make Hitler blush.

>>22154381
>She is still a utterly ruthless murderer with a body count that would make Hitler blush.
Do you have the source to back that up?

>>22155407
she also confirms she is the one behind the 'spiriting away' phenomenon in the outside world

>>22155496
Screw it, I thought you were talking about Yuuka.

>>22155496
Funny thing is, kamikakushi *does* happen without Yukari's involvement, but she seems to think that those don't count. Even when they involve actual kami, which she isn't.

>>22134279
Likes:
-Anything with Byakuren being generally patient and calm but tough as hell when needed (see Kakao for an excellent example with Soga)
-Soga ditto.
-Alice and Marisa snarky to each other but not actually fighting
-Hifuu without angst (yuri optional)
-HecaJun ditto
-Seiga embarrassing/swindling Miko (comedy only)
-The old maids being silly
-Meiling being competent/badass (especially Azuki Okamitsu)

Dislikes
-Sakuya pad jokes (except Bomber Grape)
-Koishi angst
-Yuyuko food jokes (except Colonel Aki)
-Rinnosuke portrayed as a female hater/disliker instead of just someone annoyed by annoying girls

>>22155995
Her PCB profile claims that she is always the one behind them. Then again, that info is pretty outdated. So, it's hard to tell just how many people she's killed. Even if one can say with reasonable certainty that it's a lot.

>>22143449
I'd say Flan is also a lot more intelligent then she is capable of expressing but that is about it.

I mean really the thing about Flan is she is the character we know least about in the entire canon. Most of the midbosses have had more spotlight and spoken moments in the official works then Flan has. She barely even has that much dialogue back in EoSD and hasn't said anything since BAiJR.

>>22154381
It's foolish to attempt to gauge the morality of a creature as alien to a human as youkai through a humancentric lens.
Youkai prey upon humans, even the hypocrite Byakuren can't stop her followers from doing so, can you really call something unethical for just doing what it was born to do? Is a wolf evil for eating sheep?

>>22141741
It's easy to somewhat misunderstand their relationship because Eiki complains about her, but people not getting that Komachi is extremely serious about the subjects of sin and death (just like Eiki) is annoying.

>that depiction kind of bled its way into canon
well... I mean, this was in 2004, just a year after EoSD, and there are other quotes referring to her slacking. In fact, every other SDM resident refers to her as negligent in one way or another.

>>22141809
naw, often Komachi completely doesn't care and Eiki is MUCH harder on her than in actuality, though that bridges into the "generally, most fans use fanon Eiki" territory, as many assume she is an angry, anal midget, when she's actually a mindful, kind, tall judge.

>>22157406
misread, it was 2 years

I'll admit, I can't speak for Meiling's depictions from 2002 to 2004

>>22141874
I wouldn't call her stiff, I would call her legitimately airheaded to some degree, or at the very least similar to Yuyuko she pretends to be airheaded.

It's hard to tell, unlike with Yuyuko who you can always tell is just fucking around

>>22156149
>annoyed by annoying girls
annoyed by all people*

>>22154366
It has a lot more depth than the shitty slut depiction of her. She's exceedingly intelligent, especially when it comes to things like nuclear physics, but very eccentric, excitable and especially fond of robots and manga. It's also interesting that throughout the games you can see her attitude of Gensokyo change. At first, she thinks it's bizarre and tries not to associate with its residences, but later on she makes an effort to get used to them and eventually starts to fit in. Not many other characters in the series actually develop over time. Too bad people are too busy posting the haha funni sex girl memes to notice.

I like the idea of Remilia trying to act like a big bad vampire but is actually a nice person.
What I don't like is her being depicted as evil incarnate
I also dislike Remi bully so there is that.

>>22157734
On the other hand, Remi being literally 5 years old is wrong too.

>>22157787
Yeah, she can be childish but not that childish.

>>22157412
>Angry, anal midget, when she's actually a mindful, kind, tall judge.
It's because she's the only character willing to call out fan favorites on their bullshit.

>>22156578
But Yukari "was" human, which holds her to entirely different standards then natural youkai. She chose the yook life.

>>22143449
>She's also kind of a prick to her sister, in a teasing way.
Well that's easy to explain; Remilia likes to embellish her abilities, intelligence, and ruthlessness up to make herself look special when in reality it's very likely she has no special powers beyond being a vampire (which is a significant thing on its own, but is small potatoes compared to most of the protagonists), while Flandre has all the actual power.

It's basically a more believable version of Cirno's posturing.

>>22141874
>>22157433
I wouldn't call her airheaded, but I'd say that she's socially stunted considering that she spent most of her life training two things; how to fight, and how to be a maid, and that was on top of growing up among fairies and probably having very little contact with people of the opposite gender.

Whenever Sakuya does something stupid, it's not because of a dull wit, but due to having no experience in the subject matter. Like that time she tried to open a window in space.

>>22141874
>like in wahh when she loses the chupacabra everyones freaking out and she's just smiling and standing there
So this is purely headcanon, which is ironic considering the thread, but still. She probably stops time, has her freak out moment while in stasis, composes herself and restarts time. This way she can manage to always appear calm and smiley to everyone.

>>22156578
>the hypocrite Byakuren
Speaking of distasteful fan interpretations.

>>22134291
>Alison

>>22156578
1: I don't care. All morality is subjective anyway. 2: Yukari's nature as a utterly murderous and inhuman youkai still means that portraying her as a decent human person is stupid. Inhuman beasts are not decent people, they are beasts.

>>22157412
I think the main reason for that is because PoFV makes her come across as a massive hypocrite that encourages Yuuka to murder people while telling Reimu it's wrong to kill.

>>22157583
I honestly never got the sense that she "needed" to fit in. The girl never seemed to have any problem getting used to Gensokyo.

That's kind of what I mean when I say her characterization is about as thin as a piece of paper. Girl reads like a bad self insert fanfic character. Her entire "Is a outsider" stick only shows itself in wacky references. There are no family or friends she left behind with her old life. No problem getting used to a life without electricity and other modern comforts. And no disgust towards the society of Gensokyo. Hell, she doesn't even seem to care much that outsiders are regularly butchered by youkai.

>>22157995
>and probably having very little contact with people of the opposite gender.
She had plenty of contact with people of the opposite gender. Moments before she slices open their necks and collects their blood in a bucket, sure. But it still counts.

>>22157949
Not confirmed. For all we know, she's Maribel's shadow or something.

>>22134279
The way Chen is seen by general fanbase, contradictive to her being when she first makes appearance, the fact that Ran says "Have you seen a cat around?" then proceeds to be angry about Chen getting raked proves that she's a caring master but also a master who cares for her too. So there's a chain that supports the 3, but with Ran having so many responsibilities, and learning how to basically be the next Yukari, less likely or to help Yukari expand Hakurei Barrier much more? That is just my little theory, but there is a very good reason their spellcards, and themes are nearly indentical and why Yukari, who always plays 7D chess on everything chose Ran, a 9-tailed to become a literall Goddess eventually (source. kitsune youkai lore) to become her right hand in all matters

And now you know why posters of Yukari hitting Ran with umbrella because she felt like it for no reason is just fanbase using a picture taken out of context, when they are all actually clueless.

I'm not sure fanon Alice thing, tho for one part but in general anyone who read stage 3 dialogues with anyone, is aware that Alice is just her own league of psychopath, but powerless in comparison to other youkai.
One thing I don't understand why she hates Shinki, and how the two are actually related. If it's a master - student just like Ran and Chen, then Alice is not only a washed up psychatric ward escapee but also retarded biogically because she could learn thing from a literall God

>>22134805
>a huge nerd
A huge nerd in what topic?
The gundams and other robot animu stuff, or something else?

Not really character fan interpretations, but I never get why people sympathise with FT. I mean Dude literally killed himself first and escaped judgement from ministry already, they should be after his ass sooner or later.

>>22158722
Because he's a dude. If he were a she and Reimu killed her, there would be no problem. It just cemented the idea that Gensokyo is unfair towards male youkai.

>>22158722
>but I never get why people sympathise with FT.
It is really that hard to understand? Guy realized Humans in Gensokyo have a shit deal. Managed to come up with a plan to get out of being stuck with such a shit deal. Plan was foiled by ruthless and unlikeable tool of the system.

It's like needing to explain why people sympathize with oppressed minorities fighting for their freedom.

>>22158748
>shit deal
It's truly such a shit deal, yeah I don't really get this either.

>>22158764
>It's truly such a shit deal,
It is. Pre modern standards of living are absolute trash.

>>22158538
>that encourages Yuuka to murder people
Where?
>while telling Reimu it's wrong to kill
Wait a minute, you're the guy who claimed that extermination = killing, aren't you. Nothing to see here I guess.

>>22158683
source for spoopy chen?

>>22158538
>massive hypocrite
Nah, she just tell each species to do what they are meant to do. She doesn't follow specific set of moral.

>>22135087
And you are a retard that took for granted few posts by general trolling done by ironic posts, while Ran is trying to be educational and learn from her master dilligently, thus the number crunching and in being "a computer installed onto a body" her master Yukari is in her own category, Yukari who can be beaten by literal multi-dimensional all-powerfull being, "the strongest in all of Gensokyo, Hecatia" to quote ZUN, basically existence comparable to ZEN-oh from Dragon Ball Super. Secondly you don't install someone's personality, but you may thinkso by watching too much of Ai-fantasy shit, that you think a youkai can be a machine. Ran was Ran before encountering Yukari, and a powerless Senko-san level of fox kitsune youkai, there is a thing about them that as they gain years they gain more tails (100 years or not far off for each tail) By CANON Yukari is said to be like more-less 1000 years since firest appeared "but not everyone is100% sure about her real name", even the source nerding hardcore fans tho this makes more sense than your ass-pulled knowledge little man. Ran being acknowlegded by Yukari as "Yakumo" which means "Under 8 Clouds" folklore and is one of the oldest if lyrical pieces of Japan thus belief-powered by humanity, simply as a hystorical study - able to exist in both real and etheral "Dream world" powered by the faith.
Makes sense why Yukari generally lets in forgotten beings into her comfy zone?

1.Why Yukari even decided to cooperate with someone for once when she saw some crazy alien rabbits trying to steal it. Her logic is easy to figure out in this case if you know what moon is responsible of doing with water leveling, so in other words entire human race would die in matter of few days maybe a week maximum. (no power from believing in her , no tanoshii)
2.Why did Yukarii cooperate against mindless and powerdrunk crow, who has been bio-engineered by the Goddess who decided to seek believers in Gensokyo, but failed with peaceful means and Reimu was touched in her special spot of "the" miko, so she got angry a lot first time.

What do you think makes a youkai? A Goddess or even a human like Sanae awaken their power and characterisitcs? Again, quoting articles documentaries and books I've read about folklore unlike the meme'd autist that you are. i know my urban mystical, and folklore shit so no matter how hard you try to disagree on these matters, I know I am right so don't @ me faggot.

Humans or animals depending on how they lived or were treated by others i.e.every life aspect, before becoming such a being.can turn either to youkai, celestial half-god, half-youkai and eventually God/goddess

1/2

>>22135087
Before you shit on with more straigh'outa moron fandom shit, know that for example animals (being a lesser soul, which is true in many cases) Can STILL become a youkai. Example:
cat is born > cat is bullied to death by neithbourhood psychopaths in outside world > nekomata level 2 or 7 depending how hard it's been bullied. How objects or even plants can become a youkai? That depends on how much the locals, thus "urban legends" think they are cursed and make their characteristics, so first thing that comes to mind an existing youkai that is a fucking tree is the one Gensokyo is the I can assume, more less a cousin of Japanese Suicide Forest..One girl who had such a depression /jp/ collective doesn't stand up to it, sacrificed herself to that tree and wanted to un-suicide herself when she became bored as fuck in middle of nowhere accompanied by an autistic child and an old man, child's grandfather whom she commaned and slave-drove so much that old man decided to be rather eaten by youkai, and being the mindbroken human lady Yuyuko implemented a 2nd, ghostly half to Youmu.

Also, Yuyuko by stealing Spring from real world and Gensokyo (that's still other dimension's real in a sense) also, Spring is the season that is most life-abundant, when everything becomes alive. (It's a common thing in most of folklore to be very keyword specific) Keeping her totally normal human thing, that is walking around and making everything die and suffer with (all for Yukari's enterntainment, because the gap youkai could border her to another dimension anytime once bored of her, and well "bored or life and death" makes Yukari basically invincible *to Yuyuko*

1.A random despicable HUMAN ending up in Gensokyo still as a human,
Human Village is just probably Reimu being nice and lazily comforting to lost people, she doesn't literally gives a shit about anything unless she has to, Not even naming a stupid village, so it's just a "human" Rumia, Remilia or Yukari's idea of "Youkai's food Meatmarket and Blood drink bars" would probably not be as peaceful. These people could get off much worse, like the hell or subterrean, but either way they were fated to suffer being in constant fear, by the the Yama.
(Yama can be beaten too, so she's not the all mighty Judge however one has to know the Yama's tiniest sin against any life in existence, before they became the Yama. But since Yukari and Reimu for being a two-faced greed driven hoe just doing what she has to, they avoid being caught by her and judged. They would get pinned down by (not so pretty statue Yama's and enema'd with conrete 20 cm in diameter poles, And nuked out of existence.

2 human who turned into a youkai before even dying, but our dimension doesn't allow a kamehameha and related things. because of it's laws and common sense of. In contrary to Gensokyo where both of these things mean jack shit,so for example Sanae (miracle creation) Yuyuko (the deathreaper's daughter in flesh) or the Sumireko(not entirely sure on her background, so don't take my word for this on)

>>22135087
part 3. Forgot to mention, but I know you won't even read all that shit above if anything, tho I still had fun typing it.
Get fucked.

>>22159037
Chen no spoopy ;_; really really cute and not at all capable of mind and will breaking insults, being enchanted by Yuuka's destructive powers, he made me cry mistress Ran!

>>22158722
>they should be after his ass sooner or later.
Reimu executes him for a different reason: he's a villager and he became a youkai. But, judging by his words, it doesn't seem this rule is even known among villagers.

>>22159205
Should have gone for magician or hermit route instead of killing himself.

>>22159227
A magician is a youkai.

>>22135087
That's one dumb interpretation I keep seeing.

>>22159239
Not really the same despite the name.

>>22159227
Not to mention Hijirin is literally two blocks down.

>>22159239
Marisa is a human but still a Magician who's been sent to Gensokyo to suffer but believed in ghosts so one became her 2nd parent, and was physically visible to her. She teached her magics and stuff, and being adept and eager to reasearch more she didn;t turn into a youkai learning her mastahhh spakuuu but got a tool which is capable of firing it, without becoming youkai herself. Gensokyo's belief and magic powers as contrary to real world's fantasy cartoons, were possible to achieve even by an ordinary human like herself.

>>22159250
Byakuren isn't a villager and she became a magician youkai way before Gensokyo was a thing.

>>22159239
>>22159275
>Marisa is a human but still a Magician
There are three types of magicians.
The first one is human magicians. Marisa is one. They can use magic, but they are still human and are subject to wordly issues like food or aging.
The second type is human magician turned youkai. That's Alice and Byakuren. These magicians have completed the rituals required to rid them of desires like food, and have cast their humanity aside in the process.
The third type is a youkai magician. That's Patchouli. The only way to be a third type is to be born as one. But IIRC they aren't that different from the second type in practice.

To someone like Reimu, type 1 and type 3 are fine and can keep existing. Type 2 are technically violations of the "don't turn into youkai" law, but Reimu overlooks the two known magicians because a) they transformed way before her time, and b) they aren't part of the human village.

>>22159315
That wasn't my point at all.

>>22159343
There are no source on them being rule violations. Really, they are only called Youkai cos it's an umbrella term. They are pretty different in the end.

>>22159315
i just love how people get got in this thread trying their hardest to be not called a secondary like this guy
>>22159250
not in a bad way because it's cute when they try posting facts that don't make a sense from most basic usually introduced already in game release.

>>22159343
The differences with natural magicians are 2 afaik. One, they naturally don't need to eat. Two, they have a lot of magical power naturally

>>22159357
You mean he should have asked Byakuren to teach him magic while remaining human?

>>22159240
ZUN is pretty dumb, I guess! Considering those are his words

>>22158538
Are you still being fucking stupid about confusing extermination for killing? Look up the kanji used, it doesn't mean kill

She never tells Yuuka to kill either

>>22157995
>she spent most of her life training two things; how to fight, and how to be a maid, and that was on top of growing up among fairies and probably having very little contact with people of the opposite gender.
All speculation, anon. We technically don't know anything about Sakuya's past aside from that 1) she's been a maid for a long time 2) her (new?) name was given to her by Remilia

>>22159179
;_;
i-i just meant where the image of chen was from

>>22159343
If the Yama is technically the purest (I have no idea what to classify her as, but let's say a trinity of a religion, or THE God - no clue thats why i'm asking), since she's the judge of all beings, what she is doing in Gensokyo when she is beyond real world and Gensokyo's bound laws?
I mean by her role description alone, she is logically even more powerfull than Hecatia officialy being the strongest in any way, yet she still would be slapped on the ass so hard her everything even the fanbase bully the Heca meme wouldn't be giggle-worthy anymore.

>>22159504
a Yama in buddhism is just a judge of the dead
iirc theres a number of them?
I'm not sure if they are even technically gods per se
they don't really have any powers except for just judging the dead, so they aren't actually *that* powerful.

so presumably the Yama is just the Yama of Gensokyo (Yamaxanadu- Yama of Paradise), rather than a sort of universal judge
she probably only judges beings within Gensokyo when they die

>>22159358
People tend to forget that magician youkai is just a sort of immortal humans under a term for generic supernatural beings. Iirc, Forest of Magic was implied to have many magicians.
Imo, magician and hermit route are very likely not law violations simply because they are low success routes.

>>22159474
The fact that she's been a maid for such a long time would probably explain the social awkwardness from her, I imagine it'd be hard to interact with those outside of your master, and understand other humans when you usually kill them for a meal.
>>22158140
Would be extremely cute and endearing of her but if she stopped time I'm sure she could have just grabbed the chupacabra after that.

>>22158556
>Girl reads like a bad self insert fanfic character. Her entire "Is a outsider" stick only shows itself in wacky references. There are no family or friends she left behind with her old life. No problem getting used to a life without electricity and other modern comforts. And no disgust towards the society of Gensokyo. Hell, she doesn't even seem to care much that outsiders are regularly butchered by youkai.
Sanae had a thing where she could be kind of detached from reality at times, seeing herself as the hero and everyone else as a supporting character in her story. Basically she gets carried away easily, and does dumb stuff like fighting youkai by absorbing their power into herself.

Nowadays Sumireko can dip into a similar mindset, though it's less "I'm the hero who beats up monsters" and more being a KY who acts way too friendly with people she barely knows. Even Rinnosuke spits out his drink when he hears her refer to Reimu and Kasen by nicknames.

>>22159489
Since I'm in a good mood, because of this thread I will help you get to the source you god damned lurkmoar faggot, the filename of this image is a pixiv gallery id so go to any gallery so URL part is a
"member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id= "
copypaste the filename after the " jd=
_p0 is a page counter so it's irrelevant, don't be a retard and look up what settings on bottom right corner can do.

It can do wonders filtering 3dpd shit out of your sight on /jp/, that arrow at each post number can do 2 spellcards like you would be a real OG internet youkai, how cool is that?! Holy mothefuckin shit anon,check it out like Tewi her clients
"-hide away- Everything is Ok*not* Surely next game we get Mima"
-ability to

2nd one but with Reisen to do so consider it "extra mode", there is
"-lunatic ruledo-gays- ''from snacks to moot, now rabbit-jew-slut"
Once you achieved that, lurk more. Then very important one too - lurk more And now that you are basically the hacker known as 4chan. you can only lurk more

>>22159401
Anon, he says that they can stop following their scripts at any time, and that Chen barely ever follows hers in the first place.

式 (shiki) means script or instruction, and their depiction isn't something ZUN made up. He first introduced shiki 17 years ago, and hasn't said anything shocking since then unless you have no clue what a shiki is.

It's like if he introduced the Orochi and 17 years later people started interrupting any discussion of Orochi to say "Orochi isn't an orochi lol, it's secretly an eight-headed snake".

>>22159524
So how was she created then, did she just poof out of thin air being ity bity Eiki ''THE LAW'' Yama? Or did everyone pronounce her being the Chuck Norris of Gensokyo, since she can floor Yukari if she wanted to and make Reimu as well get the h-doujin by Gemuo's treatment? And since Marisa is just Reimu's frustration relief magical girl next door, she's there by default but this time she wished she didn't.
Problem is, how and what would Eiki ever need to do to catch these 3 to get them straightene with equal suffering, because their list of attone for X is way longer than -true- good intentions and attitude of ''notto disu shito agen''. Had to make that clear, because many people got the general opinion of "yeah , but they also save and resolve incidents." To get their butts be in the unquestioned ''i say what is ok'' position, take for example Reimu's rule on human not becoming youkai, while she by needlessly to write further details drinks on each and every ocassion.

>>22159401
Not his words, it's just the dumbest and grimmest interpretation from idiots

>>22159775
Oh, right, Hecatia, that makes more sense
I think she is a goddess of some kind yeah
and the gods in touhou seem to be the shinto gods, or at least meant to be shinto gods/kami/whatever
so presumably at some point she came into existence in pre-Meiji Japan and then migrated to Gensokyo like Suwako and Kanako

I'm not actually sure if gods in Shintoism die (do they?)
but presuming they do I guess the Yama would sentence her to some form of punishment, probably some sort of hell, probably same with Marisa etc.

so they're probably a bit boned if/when they die

>>22159637
I had meant the original picture I had replied to, which hadnt had a pixiv id in the filename: "cute and all-loving...")

>>22159775
>So how was she created then
She was a jizou statue that has gathered enough belief and got an upgrade. Komachi mentions this in Oriental Sacred Place chapter 6.

>how and what would Eiki ever need to do to catch these 3 to get them straightene with equal suffering
Yeah, she can't do much to them. That is, while they're alive. Once they're dead, they don't have any powers anymore. All they are is wandering souls, not even on the level of a vengeful spirit that's mass exterminated by Reimu and co. This solves the "how" - she doesn't need to catch them, they'll be delivered to her in a powerless state.
As to what she could do - there's an infinite amount of Hells. Stick them in one like picrelated, except make them feel hunger or inescapable pain or something along these lines.

>>22158740
>If he were a she and Reimu killed her, there would be no problem.
If he were a she and Reimu out-and-out killed her, FT would have been a much, much bigger deal for people.

>>22158748
>Managed to come up with a plan to get out of being stuck with such a shit deal
A plan which involves becoming part of that shit deal.
Not trying to escape from it, not trying to make his or others' life less shit, not even trying to spread the knowledge, futile as it is. But just go straight to killing himself in order to become the very thing oppressing him.
He's a full-blown race traitor being romanticized as some sort of tragic hero, so yes I'm having a hard time understanding.

>>22134279
Speaking of Kosuzu, I like the interpretation that Kosuzu has a special place in Reimu's heart, in a sort of big-sis or motherly way.

I'm taking this from the fact that Kosuzu is the only girl that Reimu ever addresses with "-chan" and that she sees red whenever Kosuzu got endangered. I also can't help but feel like she likes to show off in front of Kosuzu (see the Suzunaan chapter where she broke the seal on the ouija board) I think that's enough to establish she gets special treatment from Reimu.

Even if this theory had shaky ground, it's still worth it to consider to add some much needed depth to Reimu's character. She'll be more interesting if she's not just some eternally bored youkai-hunter who doesn't care about anyone that much. If she truly cared about someone and held her precious, Reimu would be more grounded.

Though this goes against Reimu's themes of flying, ethereal, divine, etc... contrasts like this in one's character makes for interesting developments.

>>22156149
>-Rinnosuke portrayed as a female hater/disliker instead of just someone annoyed by annoying girls
On the flip side, him becoming some sort of harem protag is just as bad if not worse. It's insulting to both him and the girls.

That said, I could make an exception for Hidefu; his Rinnosuke still kept the "get annoyed by the girls" part.

>>22158683
>there is a very good reason their spellcards, and themes are nearly indentical
It's because ZUN ran out of time while making the game. He wanted Yukari to be a unique fight and not just hard mode Ran.

>>22135087
I'd just like to interject for moment. What you're refering to as Ran, is in fact, Ran/Yakumo, or as I've recently taken to calling it, Ran plus Yakumo. Ran is not a shikigami unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning Yakumo system made useful by the Yakumo corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full shikigami.

>>22159868
Enami Hakase
has couple of versions drawing his 2hus, but the shorts with Keine-sensei bullying in mature style characters , are nowhere near as good as Tewi being slave rabbit onahole for Chen, who's idol is not Ran it's Yuuka instead being the psycho overpowerered terrorist Chen aspires to be,
Ran-sama is still loved "more than everyone else", with situations saying something else.Haven't found more hilarious shit than his.

Do villagers even have it bad? I mean I can't really see it from print works so far. Also isn't the place pretty much a small town at this point?

>>22160442
Within the village they have it a fair bit better than your average late 1800s Japanese village. The standards of living are basically the same, but the youkai also protect the village from typhoons and such of course, the humans don't know that. Outside of the village is a death sentence. Youkai can and will kill you.
So if you're content with never venturing outside the village, you're in a good place.

>>22159045
Yes. And that means she holds everybody to a double standard that, if not downright hypocritical, makes her seem like a real asshole.

>>22159439
That just makes it even worse. As that means she's mad at Reimu for occasional beating up people.

>She never tells Yuuka to kill either
She does tell her to terrorize them.

>>22160324
ah thanks

>>22160442
>I mean I can't really see it from print works so far
Print works mainly focus on anyone BUT the human villagers, so that's not saying much.
I won't say bad, but it could definitely be better. The humans exist for the sake of the youkai and the gods, and they in return provide for them (okay, maybe not most of the youkai). But danger lurks in every corner, both in and outside of the village, and knowing inhuman beings walk among you is pretty terrifying.
That said, FS does show they're living a pretty carefree life otherwise.

>Also isn't the place pretty much a small town at this point?
Harukawa definitely made it like so.

>>22159605
>Sanae had a thing where she could be kind of detached from reality at times, seeing herself as the hero and everyone else as a supporting character in her story.
The problem I have with that is that such a mindset just doesn't really make sense with her personality. Which is a generally nice and pleasant girl. Not the must altruistic, but way less of a asshole than everybody else.

Like, in my opinion, Sumireko is pretty much Sanae done right. Since she actually acts like somebody that would treat a land of human flesh eating monsters as her personal playground. It helps that she actually, you know, has a real backstory.

>>22159928
>A plan which involves becoming part of that shit deal.
Not really. His only goal after becoming a youkai was to just live in peace. Outside of escaping from Gensokyo altogether, it was about the best he was going to get without kick starting a revolution.

I'm not saying the guy was a tragic hero. But compared to most of the cast, his sins were pretty much nonexistent.

>>22160442
The living standards are crap. And you will run afoul of youkai if you leave the human village or do something you aren't supposed to do. It's like living in your average dictatorship, expect even those have better living standards nowadays.

>That said, FS does show they're living a pretty carefree life otherwise.
I wouldn't say carefree. Just... liveable. Which is honestly about the only good thing you could say about Gensokyo. It's liveable, in much the way North Korea is liveable.

>>22160529
>She does tell her to terrorize them
Where?

>>22160734
Eiki's dialogue if she wins in Versus mode.

>>22160512
Youkai won't kill humans from the village as it's their lifeline. It would be dumb to spend time and energy protecting the village just to kill anyone going outside of it. The village is not a prison, it's not like you'll get attacked the moment you step outside. Yes the villagers are told to fear youkai and they do but they still go outside for gathering food or other things.

The entire point of the village is to be a youkai-fearing garden. Humans don't know youkai are in fact protecting them to keep the garden intact, so they fear them even more when leaving the safety of the village which is good for the youkai.

If a youkai decides to kill a villager anyway it would just become a big target for both the other youkai and the incident-resolving humans because it disturbs Gensokyo's balance. They can freely kill spirited away humans from the outside world though (and that spiriting away thing is probably intentional in order to please the man-eating youkai without reducing the number of villagers, see >>22155496).

>>22160832
If you could go outside the village and not die then there'd be no reason to have fear, no matter what you're being told. It seems obvious to me that humans from the village are killed on occasion, maybe even frequently. The facade needs to be kept at all costs and human population needs to be kept in check in some way lest they reproduce their way into being too many to manage. That same reproduction is going to keep any "example" deaths from lowering the amount of humans to harvest fear from as well.

I can't find it right now but there's a chapter of FS where Mamizou talks, in present tense, about tanuki murdering humans. And we do know for a fact fairies kill humans with their pranks. So village humans are a protected class of sorts but they're not untouchable.

>>22160832
The thing is, unlike the outside world, Gensokyo's youkai don't even need people to fear them in order to exist. I'm a little unclear why Yukari spirits people away to Gensokyo and heck I'm not really sure why there's a human village at all.

>>22160832
You don't need to have intelligent youkai actively hunting human villagers for Gensokyo to be dangerous. Feral youkai that are too stupid to follow rules exist. It's mentioned that Fairy pranks can have deadly consequences. And there are even places in Gensokyo that will just kill you.

>The village is not a prison
It kinda is though. Or at least, Gensokyo as a whole is a prison.

>>22160895
I am pretty sure youkai still need believe to exist. That is something only a established settlement like the human village can provide.

>I'm a little unclear why Yukari spirits people away to Gensokyo
I don't think it's ever been 100% confirmed. But it seems to be mostly done to keep the predatory youkai population happy. Even if they don't need to eat humans, they still enjoy it enough that they would cause trouble if they didn't get a supply of outsiders to hunt down and kill.

Yukari is also a inhuman monster. It's quite likely she thinks Gensokyo wouldn't be a paradise if there wasn't a group of humans you could murder without consequences.

>>22160779
Where she tells Reimu that it is ok to exterminate youkai or Medicine that she should lose her hatred toward humans. You see the pattern chief?

>>22160948
She also tells Reimu in the main storyline that it's wrong to exterminate youkai for "no reason".

>>22160948
>Medicine has a unhealthy hate towards humanity
>Reimu's a bully
>Yuuka should be more proactive like a proper Youkai
Iunno chief she seems to make sense.

>>22160880
I think that is why the balance is fragile: the youkai need the humans to fear them without actually killing them.

In FS there's various events involving youkai inside the village. Some of them are just random youkai doing youkai things while others are from much more organized groups like the kappa, tengu or tanuki. In both cases they remind everyone that yes, they exists and that they're powerful enough to do a lot of weird things, making the humans both fear and respect them.
This also creates tensions between those groups as they all want more presence in the village since that means more power for them, pic related.

Also, there's things like the Gensokyo Chronicles where youkai appear more dangerous than they really are. Why? Because it's one way to keep people fearing them without reducing the population.
In Memorizable Gensokyo (the manga based on PMiSS), Yukari visits Akyuu about the Chronicles asking her if she can review it and eventually make some changes to it. Yukari knows that today's Gensokyo is in fact pretty safe for humans (or at least, much more safe than before) so she don't want to let Akyuu write that it's ok for humans to not fear youkai these days. She wants to make sure that the Chronicles depicts youkai as fearsome creatures.
The Chronicles were originaly made as a tool for the humans to protect themselves from youkai but since the creation of Gensokyo it's more like a tool for the youkai to advertise themselves. Like, "hey we're still here and we can still kill you in an instant you know".

But I agree that keeping the human population in check could very well be a thing. As for fairies, yes they're dumb enough to do that sort of things but also dumb enough for not knowing how Gensokyo works.

>>22160917
I don't deny that there's feral youkai, those are still really dangerous. When I say "youkai" I mean mostly the intelligent ones, as the others might not be able to follow rules but they also probably doesn't know that human fear is what keeps them alive. So they might attack mindlessly since it's what they exists for, without knowing that it's in fact not that good for them in the context of Gensokyo. On the other hand the intelligent youkai know that they need the humans, and since they protect the village they would probably also take care of feral youkai if they're a threat just like natural disasters after all.

>>22159504
But she's not in Gensokyo? She's just the Yama stationed by Gensokyo's portal to the underworld.
Also, saying Eiki is the most powerful character in Touhou is a misnomer. She's an arbiter of divine law, and if you're in violation of it, she has basically unlimited resources to stop you. If she has no reason to apprehend you however, she is rather weak.
>>22158538
I wonder how the yama view the Lunarians. They've violated all sorts of laws, including claiming divinity and possibly impersonating actual deities, creating youkai which violate the natural order, creating elixirs of immortality, claiming purity when it's very obvious that they collectively suffer from the worse excesses of Pride...

>>22161752
>I wonder how the yama view the Lunarians.
I don't think anybody in the Touhou universe expect the Lunarians view the Lunarians as anything other than absolute assholes. They are the lawful evil to the chaotic evil of Youkai.

>>22161442
>I think that is why the balance is fragile.
It is. Yet, at the end of the day, it's always going to be the humans that will pay for the balance being maintained. At worst, the youkai will "only" be allowed to kill outsiders and troublemakers.

>>22160880
>And we do know for a fact fairies kill humans with their pranks.
Which is also why human villagers are allowed to murder fairies at their leisure.
Or, perhaps fairies kill villagers with their pranks because villagers are allowed to murder them without reprieve? It's a chicken/egg scenario.

>>22161781
>Or, perhaps fairies kill villagers with their pranks because villagers are allowed to murder them without reprieve?
Nah. Fairies have the memory of a goldfish. If anything, it's more likely that their pranks turn deadly because they legitimately don't understand that humans that die don't come back.

>>22161790
Maybe it's just bias because all the named fairy characters represent prodigies by their standards, but fairies are definitely capable of being vengeful and fearing for their lives. Cirno fears Yuuka and the idea of both dying and dying permanently, and the three fairies of light show fear of youkai during the period they were gathering fruit/nuts/mushrooms. The three fairies want to terrorize humans so that they're properly respected at least, and Cirno wants to become overlord of Gensokyo because she interprets the way humans react to being pranked as humans overreacting, which given her understanding of death might mean she doesn't realize the pranks can become fatal.

Indeed, she gets angry enough to start the events of GFW when the three fairies collapse her igloo in a way that could have been lethal to her, which shows she probably wouldn't approve herself.

There's probably a gulf in intelligence between the named fairies and the nameless ones, and the named fairies are smart enough to have a sense of morality, but stupid and ignorant enough to assume that all fairies think like them.

>>22161832
All of the named fairy characters are indeed essentially the top of their race. Most fairies are more like the once you fight in the games. Who don't do much expect charge at you and get butchered en masse.

>>22161843
Not butchered, knocked out, because Reimu has this weird love/hate relationship with fairies where even though she's as rude as ever to them, she'll treat them as gently as she can while still giving them the message to cut out whatever mischief she's doing; she'll never kill them if she can help it, lets them stay in her shrine even if they try and burn it down, and lets them join in events with important youkai, even praising them in the most recent ending to VFiS. It's how the zombie fairy trick is able to work.

This extends to the other protagonists, if Marisa using non-lethal substitutions for Master Spark on Cirno indicate anything.

>>22161790
>If anything, it's more likely that their pranks turn deadly because they legitimately don't understand that humans that die don't come back.
I thought that was already canon?

>>22161886
I'm honestly not sure if that mercy also extends to the fairies she fights when dealing with incidents.

I really doubt it extends to the other protagonists though. Marisa and Sanae, maybe. Sakuya and Youmu, possible. But somebody like Remilia, Yukari, or Yuuka is going to blow them all apart without even a second though.

>>22161907
Could be. I'm not sure if it's said flat out, or just implied.

>>22161843
>Who don't do much expect charge at you and get butchered en masse
Man I don't really think that gameplay mechanics count as a real thing.

>>22138961
not him but I think it's more about the flanderization by the fans (and possibly some of the canon) of Yuyuko as nothing but a glutton. Having a character trait take over the entire character is never a good thing.

>>22142828
I do and I've been commissioning them from a Japanese artist who likes them as well.

But I don't post them since I find trolling to be incredibly boring after the novelty of like 5 posts.

>>22134279
Like i said in >>22162158
>Having a character trait take over the entire character is never a good thing.
I want all of the 2hus to have a bit of depth to them. The reason why I like Miyase Mahiro's (Mahiro Miyase's?) art of Sanae (pic related) so much is because her smiles look like she is faking it, as if something is deeply troubling her and she is forcing herself to smile. But maybe that's just me reading too much into things, I dunno.
Also, while they do cater to the annoying Slut Sanae meme somewhat (Miyase Mahiro has even drawn NSFW art of her) they're still true to the canon "Good Girl Sanae", for the lack of a better word.

>>22160677
Nah it's not really that "crap", also they are indeed living pretty carefreely.

>>22164194
>Nah it's not really that "crap"
By modern standards, it is. Pre modern standards of living are the worst.

>also they are indeed living pretty carefreely.
Again, they are never shown doing anything expect just living. The Human Villagers still have to work, still have poverty, and are shown being constantly troubled by the various going on of Gensokyo.

>>22164194
>Nah it's not really that "crap"
By modern standards, it is. Feudal living standards are awful, and the human villagers are never mentioned or shown having anything above that.

>also they are indeed living pretty carefreely.
Again, they are never shown doing anything expect just living. The Human Villagers still have to work, still have poverty, and are shown being constantly troubled by the various going on of Gensokyo. Their lives are less carefree than most of us.

I like to sing Touhou arranges with or stuff from PV's (like Chiisana koi No Uta one) and I also cover animu songs or remix them into whatever I feel like at time. I compose my own stuff as well, but I can't decide which stage's
theme or boss theme do I to start with, all of them are too good.
I don't trash wanna shitpost in /jp/'s OC thread, should anything above considered off-topic or that it's not welcome here one way or another. So I'm gonna be a complete lazy faggot and post something from months ago, This chuchu-ru and her mommy was probably best I could do.

>>22164920
I'm such an unattentive retard, wanted to post this in oc general thread. gomen /jp/

>>22160066
That's cute.

>>22159768
>>22159815
>3: Shikigami on the outside world are called computers, and are said to be used for similar purposes.
>ただ調べるだけなら式神(コンピューター)でも出来る。 ((shikigami, furigana is "computer"))
>外の世界で言うところのプログラミングのようなものらしく、式は主人の命令の通りのことをこなす。 ((shikigami use roughly equated to programming))
Yukari's article in BAiJR has several instances that Ran isn't a fox, she's a shikigami, which taken together with every other statement about it corroborates the idea of the shikigami being roughly equivalent to a program running on a body.

This, however, is the only indication I've seen of an idea of Ran and Chen truly having wills of their own (though Chen is stated to be running a faulty shinigami program that breaks easily)
>橙も藍も式神になるとパターン化します。でも普段も見た目や性格は大差ないのですが…
from http://web.archive.org/web/20040404190222/http://www16.big.or.jp/~zun/cgi-bin/diary/nicky.cgi?page=1
Which if I'm understanding correctly is basically saying that the two of them don't change much when they're in full on shikigami mode.

Anyway, the point I was making was that these "dumb" interpretations are all canon, and if anything I'm more irritated by the people who obviously haven't seen these things but insists this computer comparison arose from thin air.

>>22165172
oh and of course there's the infamous
>藍と同様、橙もまた「化け猫に憑りついた式神」のことであり
outright saying that Chen and Ran aren't the Cat and Fox, they are the shikigami taking control of the cat and fox body. Goes on to remind that Chen's lousy shikigami makeup means the cat part of her is still obviously willful

>>22160965
She says this along with "you are beating up literally everyone just because you suspect them, stop it"

Reimu's proper job is to perform necessary youkai extermination, not be a fucking thug

>>22160529
>occasional
Reimu is extremely violent, especially but not even only when an incident is on. She can and has beat up others because she noticed they were around, and she has a firecracker personality that will result in her attacking you if you piss her off

>>22160066
she likes kids

Look at how incredibly gentle her demeanor is when dealing with kids in the fox chapters. It's 100% abnormal Reimu

>>22160066
>>22161886
I wonder if Reimu acts like a hard-ass because she's afraid if she makes any strong attachments to other individuals, it'd weaken her resolve and leave her vulnerable if youkai exploited those connections. It might be that a part of her wants to care about the young and the innocent a lot, doesn't think she'd be allowed to as both those traits have little use in Gensokyo's Darwinistic setup.

Her making the spell card rules and enforcing them stringently is her way of trying to make it up for the weak, since she was basically given her strength for free.

>>22165220
Well, her actual job is basically to serve as a brutal enforcer for a murderous dictatorship. But I guess she is supposed to do that by only "exterminating" the actual perpetrators.

>>22165230
She is a twat, i'm well aware. It's just a massive double standard that such things are apparently perfectly okay if Yuuka does it.

>>22165261
Reimu is a pedo!?

>>22165495
it isn't a double standard because Yuuka and Reimu are not the same sort of creature

>>22165261
I doubt her fondness is anything more than skin deep. If she actually cared even one bit about their wellbeing, she would be tearing down the Hakurei barrier.

>>22165368
Reimu doesn't have much of a issue with forming strong connections though. If she comes across as a unpleasant person most of the time, that's only because she actually is a unpleasant person doing a thoroughly evil job. The only thing keeping her from being a full blown villain being her own stupidity and gullible nature.

>>22165616
Both are sapient lifeforms capable of making decisions. Even if you want to argue it's justified, it is a double standard.

>>22165641
No, retard. A human is just a human. A youkai requires interaction with humans, often through spreading fear, to continue to exist. Oh boo hoo, youkai have to scare people. What a travesty. Lions will just fucking eat you if they get the chance. Some youkai will too, but so what? The basics of life are kill or be killed, etc. Not being edgy I mean, that's just how it is. If you don't "eat", you die

>>22165368
Naw she's just a bit strange. Reimu doesn't think that hard about anything. Like potentially that could be a subconscious aspect of her personality? But much more likely, so long as you get her affection, you have it, no matter how curmudgeonly she tends to be.

Keep in mind that it took three series for Reimu to finally actually like the three fairies. She had no interest or care for them in the first place because "whatever, they're fairies". Look at her spell card ratings in SCoOW to see how generally dismissive she is of most people, too. She doesn't care to remember names or events that mean nothing to her. However, for anyone who's become a friend to her, she's generally a lot warmer. Marisa is of course the best example.

>>22165637
>If she actually cared even one bit about their wellbeing, she would be tearing down the Hakurei barrier.
No point in destroying paradise. Keep in mind that Reimu is also concerned with the right youkai have to live. She doesn't patrol Gensokyo, saving outsiders who get chomped on, but she will help outsiders should she happen to be around. She believes in what Gensokyo stands for: fantastic freedom

>>22165654
A alternative to scaring people exists. Any youkai that chooses to murder humans is still doing something they don't have to do.

>>22165657
>No point in destroying paradise.
But it's not a paradise for those children. They will spend the rest of their lives trapped in Gensokyo. Only able to dream about the way better life they would have had in the outside world. Assuming they don't die horribly at the hands of a youkai.

>She believes in what Gensokyo stands for: fantastic freedom
Then she is a evil person aiding a evil cause. Just as much responsible for the thousands of people killed in Gensokyo as the likes of Yukari.

>>22165679
>A alternative to scaring people exists.
You'd better not be talking about Byakuren.

>>22165781
No. I'm talking about the spell card system. Byakuren didn't exist when PoFV was made.

>>22160642
>His only goal after becoming a youkai was to just live in peace
Pardon me for finding it hard to believe the word of someone who would readily kill himself and be revived in a stupidly convoluted manner all for the sake of becoming a youkai.
Even if he wasn't telling a lie, there's no reason for him to actually uphold his word, especially since he would have years of living among the youkai if he wasn't dead.

>I'm not saying the guy was a tragic hero
Could've fooled me with the oppressed minorities comparison.
Snide remark aside, that's where we disagree isn't it. You see him as a man fighting for his freedom, I see him as a coward who would throw everyone under the bus if it means saving his own ass.
Everything he does is for his own sake, not the human, which I suppose is why I can't really root for him. It's more insulting than rooting for Reimu.

>>22165679
Okay, where does that apply to the Yuuka-Reimu point? Eiki told the former to terrorize people, not fucking murder them. Hell, her smile alone could scare off people, all she needs to do is add a little sharp grin to it whenever she went to the village. From PMiSS:
>I saw her at the Garden of the Sun. Her smile was terrifying, so I immediately ran away.

>>22165684
Not to diminish your point, but the human villagers aren't clean innocents, either. They're willing to rat out outsiders at a moment's notice to save their hides and they abuse and trod on fairies. They'd rather kick the few people lower then them down further then try and improve their circumstances by cooperating, which is a cornerstone of humanity.
>>22165637
That would screw the fairies, which Reimu also cares about. This isn't a situation that could be easily resolved, and Reimu would rather not disrupt the status quo she's spent so hard maintaining, even if she doesn't agree with aspects of it.

>>22135861
this is probably my favorite as well.

>>22166216
> but the human villagers aren't clean innocents, either.
The human villagers have consistently been shown as nothing but victims. I genuinely can't think of anything they did particularly wrong outside of occasionally abusing fairies. Mind you, fairies they caught while they were trying to play a prank on them. As far as sins of a society go, that might as well be nothing.

>They're willing to rat out outsiders at a moment's notice to save their hides
They've never done this. In fact, most printworks make it clear they are very fond of outsiders and generally treat them as minor celebrities.

>That would screw the fairies
Why put the lives of child like nature spirits above that of the wellbeing of your fellow humans? Most of them have lived for centuries, if not thousands of years. To say they've "had their time" is a understatement. Especially if by doing so, thousands of lives would be saved on top of the thousands whose standards of living would increase tenfold.

And all of that is assuming that the fairies would even be hurt much by Gensokyo disappearing. As nature spirits whose very existence is tied to the thing they represent. Most of them would do just fine.

>and Reimu would rather not disrupt the status quo she's spent so hard maintaining, even if she doesn't agree with aspects of it.
If the status quo is this utterly abhorrent, murderous, and vile. Then supporting the status quo is inexcusable. Like, it would be one thing if she was simply neutral. But Reimu is actively maintaining the Hakurei barrier. She is just as much at fault for every human that perishes in Gensokyo as the likes of Yukari or Okina.

>>22166035
>Pardon me for finding it hard to believe the word of someone who would readily kill himself and be revived in a stupidly convoluted manner all for the sake of becoming a youkai.
Why would he lie though? Does he have a reason to hurt humans, when his stated intent is simply to improve his lot in life?

>Even if he wasn't telling a lie, there's no reason for him to actually uphold his word, especially since he would have years of living among the youkai if he wasn't dead.
Most youkai are very solitary creatures. I doubt they would influence him at all. Also, again, why would he not uphold his word? Whatever you want to say about the guy, he did not seem to be some kind of serial killer or sociopath waiting to break free.

>You see him as a man fighting for his freedom, I see him as a coward who would throw everyone under the bus if it means saving his own ass.
I see him as a man trying to make the best of the situation he has. Somebody whose methods caused no real harm to anybody. And somebody who, compared to almost every other character, did not deserve to die.

>It's more insulting than rooting for Reimu.
Even if I agreed with your logic. Then I would still argue it's more insulting to root for Reimu. A woman who is actively conspiring with youkai, seemingly just for the sake of maintain her own privileged position.

Why do all lore and lore-related threads turn into a discussion about why the humans should tell Gensokyo to fuck off

>>22166371
Because Humans should tell Gensokyo to fuck off. Duh.

I should add, by the way, that I don't actually think Reimu is a genuinely evil people. She's too dumb to be genuinely malicious in her intent. She does what her mother, or Yukari, told her to do, not understanding the consequences of her actions.

>>22166371
Because Humans should tell Gensokyo to fuck off. Duh.

I should add, by the way, that I don't actually think Reimu is a genuinely evil person. She's too dumb to be genuinely malicious in her intent. She does what her mother, or Yukari, told her to do, not understanding the consequences of her actions.

While I find grimsokyo to be somewhat annoying, I find fan interpretations that Touhou is a 100% happy-go-lucky series with zero dark elements to be an equally as annoying overreaction to grimdark fanworks and fantheories. One of the things that makes Gensokyo such an appealing setting is that it has a lot of dark elements (the entire place is a prison of humans artificially cut off from the outside world by youkai solely to perpetuate their existence), but ZUN never dwells on these elements. They're always there, and commented on frequently, but he somehow manages to not make Touhou a dumbass grimdark shithole *or* a world that's artificially light-hearted and tonally inconsistent. Given how rare such a balance is in a lot of otaku media (just look at how many light novels are either artificially stakes-less or grimdark headassery), no wonder people like it so much.

>>22166371
Humans fuck yeah faggots have small egos
This is not just in Touhou

>keep seeing muh humans village bad in various ways here
>meanwhile in that not so recent fighting game, human villagers are having fun from random shits and listening to Prismriver sisters

>>22166312
>actively conspiring with youkai
Wrong. Reimu only "conspires" with youkai through happenstance. What you have to understand about Reimu's character is that she is the kind of person who does their duty no matter the circumstance. If Gensokyo's basis was the total culling and control of wild youkai, Reimu would do it. If Gensokyo's purpose was to foster a youkai population and let no human in, Reimu would do it.

This is why several characters remark that she has more in common with a Taoist monk than a Shinto shrine maiden. She fits her situation no matter what it is with absolute adherence to her moral code. She is where she is because that's where she was born, but takes no sides. She's neither pro-youkai nor anti-youkai. She's the defender of Gensokyo, and it just so happens that Gensokyo is a natural reserve for youkai.

>>22166371
>why the humans should tell Gensokyo to fuck off
Humanity has already told Gensokyo to fuck off. That's why it's a tiny, marginalised place housing a mostly extinct species, and only through the active effort of its builders.

Gensokyo is a retirement home for youkai, whom the Outside World left behind a long time ago.

>>22166312
>Why would he lie though?
Not necessarily an outright lie, but more like he's saying what he thinks Reimu wanted to hear. Embellished truth, to put simply.
Why? Who knows. It was mostly directed to myself anyway, like you cannot make me believe someone who was revived out of spite to be anything resembling "peaceful".
>Does he have a reason to hurt humans
He's a youkai. It's mere conjecture considering that we don't know if what he became is any different than a magician like Alice, but it's a possibility.
Also I never said anything about hurting humans. Terrorizing them is probably the least he could do.

>Also, again, why would he not uphold his word?
A youkai. Not peaceful by nature. Conjecture? Yes it is. Still won't convince me otherwise.

>I see him as a man trying to make the best of the situation he has
You know, being a hermit or a magician is still a viable option; PMiSS and SoPM certainly doesn't shy away from mentioning how humans can become these two with enough training/research. Seems to me like he just want to get out of being under the youkai as fast as he can. I would say I can relate, but that'd just make it sound worse than it already is.

>A woman who is actively conspiring with youkai
A woman like that wouldn't exorcise (kill) a youkai who only came to possess someone after he had his horse killed for the meat.
But that's what Reimu did.
Her priority has always been for Gensokyo. Killing youkai if they harm human within the village, or killing human if they ever turn youkai, they're both just another duty of hers.
As a side note, she seems a lot more regretful about what happened to the salt merchant than she is about the fortune teller.

>>22166517
I mean to be fair, aren't we the weird ones? It's normal to sympathize with your own species after all.

>>22166583
B-b-but they don't have a 2ch to shitpost in so we have to come in and shit on their idyllic, peaceful way of life to "save" them!!!

>>22166583
You can watch fun fights and listen to music in the outside world as well.

Like I said earlier. I´m not going to argue that it´s impossible to have fun living in Gensokyo. Unless sex is literally impossible, people are going to have at least some degree of fun in their lives.

>>22166696
I´m aware. Like I said a few posts ago, I don´t think Reimu is a bad person. She´s just incredibly stupid.

>>22166802
>Idyllic, peaceful way of life
That's not actually a thing. Either in Gensokyo, or the real world.

>>22166791
>It was mostly directed to myself anyway, like you cannot make me believe someone who was revived out of spite to be anything resembling "peaceful"
He explicitly didn't become a mindless evil spirit though.

>A youkai. Not peaceful by nature.
I mean. Somebody like Kogasa or Kyouko is genuinely harmless. Not to go #NotAllYoukai, but we don't really know if he was inclined to commit violence.

>You know, being a hermit or a magician is still a viable option;
Not really. Unless you can somehow find somebody willing to teach you the secrets of magic/Taoism, you're kind of out of luck. And before you say "What about Miko?", it's made pretty explicit that she isn't interesting in teaching more people how to become hermits.

>A woman like that wouldn't exorcise (kill) a youkai who only came to possess someone after he had his horse killed for the meat.
Killing feral youkai like that is a part of her job. Her job that only really benefits Youkai like Yukari or Okina.

>>22166791
>It was mostly directed to myself anyway, like you cannot make me believe someone who was revived out of spite to be anything resembling "peaceful"
He explicitly didn't become a mindless evil spirit though.

>A youkai. Not peaceful by nature.
I mean. Somebody like Kogasa or Kyouko is genuinely harmless. Not to go #NotAllYoukai, but we don't really know if he was inclined to commit violence.

>You know, being a hermit or a magician is still a viable option;
Not really. Unless you can somehow find somebody willing to teach you the secrets of magic/Taoism, you're kind of out of luck. And before you say "What about Miko?", it's made pretty explicit that she isn't interesting in teaching more people how to become hermits.

>A woman like that wouldn't exorcise (kill) a youkai who only came to possess someone after he had his horse killed for the meat.
Killing feral youkai like that is a part of her job. Her job that only really benefits Youkai like Yukari.

I leave for one day and suddenly this thread which is about character FAN interpretations turns for some reason into that Gensokyo needs to be destroyed or some shit, I don't know I refuse to read all that shit which for some reason replaced the original topic. Why would you want destroy Gensokyo? You want to ZUN stop working on Touhou and let him do regular job again or what? Might as well turn Touhou into gacha.

>>22167723
Um, anon, Gensokyo is a fictional setting. I don´t want it to be destroyed expect in that kind of vague way I want the Death Star or Mordor to be destroyed. ZUN could also keep milking Touhou for decades even if he blew the entire place up.

As for why it happened in this topic, I guess because "Gensokyo is not bad" is a fan interpretation that some people really dislike.

>>22167818
>As for why it happened in this topic, I guess because "Gensokyo
>Gensokyo
The topic is character fan interpretations. I certainly don't remember Gensokyo the character and its fan stuff that is on par with stuff like "Kaguya is NEET that plays videogames all day" or "Patche gets screwed by Koakuma every day at 5AM". Guess it is another case of too dense for funposting.

>>22166583
When they obey and never even think of doing anything that angers Reimu makes Yukari check what you're up to with Ran's report or herself .Then maybe even Yukari shows a human-like feature of letting them have some fun in life before beicoming a dinner being gapped to a random location filled with starving youkai's, and maybe even Yukari herself having fun killing them or with Ran and Chen devouring that poor guy.

>>22165540
It's not wise to leave the shrine maiden alone with either female children or fairies.

>>22166696
>Reimu only "conspires" with youkai through happenstance.
Her being a dog for Yukari is not really happenstance. She's less a defender of Gensokyo itself and more a defender of the current status quo and hierarchy of Gensokyo. At best you'll get small reforms out of her like the spell card system, but if you wished for a complete change in how Gensokyo operates while still maintaining its existence she will want you dead like Seija.

>>22134279
>On the other end, I never got the masochistic Tenshi thing.
It's literally the plot of her game. She caused an incident specifically because she wanted to get beaten up, and in a couple routes she goes there in the dialogue.

>>22168459
Why does Marisa do nothing about the pedo maiden!? Surely she knows something about it! She hangs out with her all the time!

>>22167927
To be fair, Gensokyo may not be a character, but it is still subject to fan interpretation. Zounose's and Karaagetarou's setting for example are vastly different.

That said it's not like these people are doing any of that.

>>22167927
>I certainly don't remember Gensokyo the character and its fan stuff that is on par with stuff like "Kaguya is NEET that plays videogames all day" or "Patche gets screwed by Koakuma every day at 5AM".
Gensokyo isn't a "character" in the literal sense. But it's probably had more different interpretations than most of the cast put together.

>>22168523
>Her being a dog for Yukari is not really happenstance.
Not to defend Reimu. But it kind of is, insofar that by all accounts its just a family thing she inherited. Obviously, abandoning the position is something she could do. So, it's up to debate why exactly she decides to stick with it. She might have a good reason, or she might just be in it for herself.

Either way, the job itself is absolutely immoral. And I very much doubt the previous Hakurei Shrine Maidens were pleasant people.

>>22170562
>Gensokyo isn't a "character" in the literal sense

>>22170627
Sometimes the obvious needs to be stated, unfortunately.

All those reeee opinions on human village, reimu and gensokyo are always halirous to read.

>>22168230
Becareful you might cut yourself.

Flandre

>>22174399
is

>>22174408
not

>>22174417
a

>>22174427
yandere.

>>22174436
She´s mostly just kind of a annoying mouthy brat.

I like this flan interpretation the most.

>>22176175
How would Flan taste?

>>22176212
Like cranberry and pomegranate.

>>22176212
sweat and innocence

>>22176212
Like my dick.

>>22176212
Rotten flesh.