/jp/ - Otaku Culture

>they only survived because they got lucky.

Ironically, it's one of the things Nasu stresses the most in his comptiq/magazine interviews, fights are a lot more than just POWERLEVELS comparison.
But yeah, I think it's one of the weakest points of Nasu, a lot of fights are built around plot and convinence.
It's supposed to be an eroge, though, the main focus are the relationships between the characters, it's not supposed to be the fighting bible or something.

>>2131575
>F/SN
>supposed to be an eroge
No. Just no.

>It's supposed to be an eroge
what part of Nasu's writing gave you that idea?

>>2131587
Sorry, it might be built in a great way and without some of the more silly clichès in the genre, but it remains a porn/relationship game aimed at social retards, you're deluded if you think otherwise

>>2131564
Excluding Gil and GOLDEN EGO, in all other cases, they either fight at full or withhold for proper reasons (plot or mechanics). Circumstances, abilities matching and timing determine the rest.

>Its good that Nasu managed to make the villains actually seem like a threat, but he just needs to figure out how to have the protagonist's team deal with them without making it look like they only survived because they got lucky.

>Fate Stay/Night: The story of how a young japanese boy beats the greatest heroes from history and fiction.

If luck didn't play a major factor in things, then I'd be more annoyed.

>>2131575

>Ironically, it's one of the things Nasu stresses the most in his comptiq/magazine interviews, fights are a lot more than just POWERLEVELS comparison.

There's a difference between putting skill or strategy over brute force and having the leads only survive because the villains always conveniently act like complete idiots right when they're about to win.

Of course, you just agreed with me there, so...

>>2131613
He actually really BEATS on his own a majorly weakened one by having the perfect ability to match.
You make it sound much worse than it is.

>>2131598
Nothing says erotica like mollusks.

>>2131629
If he used it in all 4 discs, it'd make more sense to mention it that much.

>>2131601
You're retarded if you think it's an eroge just because there's a single added-at-the-last-minute mollusk-filled sex scene on every route. The main point of the game is shonen fightan' even if it has erogeish elements.

And in before quoting Wikipedia.

>>2131636
Actually, neither lover relationships nor the fighting itself is the focus of F/SN.
...Anyway.

>>2131644
True. F/sn is basically an overly-convoluted telling of Nasu's philosophies and ideals.

>>2131644
Enlighten us, o great guru. What's the focus then?

>>2131669
I would not call it convoluted.
It's actually easy to distinguish.
The over-exposition and hammering of details to explain them is the problem, gets tiring.

>>2131669

I'll buy that.

Isn't Fate Route his favorite route, even though I think Rider is his favorite girl (appearance-wise)?

>>2131697
I know Saber is his favorite girl, but I dunno about the whole route.

>>2131636
>shonen

You know what.

Fate was very epic, but I think UBW had the better main character, which is why I prefer it. Other than Shirou's attitude, though, Fate should be considered the best of the three by anyone with taste.

>>2131697

Dunno, lol

I remember seeing a chart where the big three at type moon decide who's their favorite heroine, of the main heroines anyway.

Nasu and Takeuchi both picked Saber as their number one, with a 9 out of 10 and a perfect 10 on the scale respectively.

I forgot who the third guy is, but he picked Sakura.

>>2131723
Of note is that Nasu didn't like Sakura very much at all, as I recall.

>>2131708

All I can remember is that Nasu REALLY REALLY likes Rider. He probably just thinks she's hot, since he makes tons of stuff for Saber.

>>2131729

Yeah, she got a 7. As I recall, she only got that 7 because she was physically attractive.

>>2131723
>>2131723

>>2131715
I know you're an idiot. There being a couple of sex scenes don't make the fights any less shonen. Hell, that's even the demographic of the manga and anime.

>>2131715
I know you're an idiot. There being a couple of sex scenes doesn't make the fights any less shonen. Hell, that's even the demographic of the manga and anime.

>>2131749

Shit, Takeuchi hates Sakura. I think that's Takeuchi anyway, can't read moon.

>>2131755
Writing, pacing, the way the battles unfold, focus they have on storyline etc have VERY LITTLE to do with MOST action shounen series that focus on fighting.
Seriously.

>>2131749

>>2131749
Do you have the one where they rate the other characters? Isn't it sad, Taiga? ;_;

>>2131772

Yukika route where?

It's not the idiot ball they're holding--it's the over-confidence ball. Usually justifiably, since everything seems to be going their way until it all screws up at the last second. E.g. True Assassin deciding to take a hit from Kotomine instead of wearing him out some more; Shirou getting toyed with by Gilgamesh until a sudden revelation lets him UBW Gil's ass.

>>2131782

>>2131787
Actually not 'overconfidence' problem for Hassan.
With the info he had ,aka human without much mana concentration, he made the best trade-off, minor wound for sure hit kill.

Mud heart was Kotomine's trump card.

>Caster
>3
TAKEUUUUUCHIIIII

>>2131806
He is clearly upset he could not use the loli form.

>>2131805
Yeah, that's the point. The villains really have every reason to be confidence. There's no reason for them to expect Shirou or Kotomine to suddenly whip out Reality Marbles or immunity to what should be a fatal attack.

>>2131811
このロリコンどもめ！

>>2131819
The point is, that the 'over-confidence' shtick, no matter the opponent ONLY applies to Gilgamesh.
Who is 1/3 of the major opposition of F/SN.

The OP exaggerates the issue.

>>2131755
...gee, seems like you don't. Demographic, not genre, only for printed works, etc.

It's a bother to talk with dense and rude people and I guess I won't bother explaining this any more, so... just don't use words you don't understand, okay?

>>2131832
I said shounen fighting, by that I mean fighting like is usually found in shounen fighting manga and anime. What's so hard to understand, retard?

And yeah, F/SN fights are shounenish. Random power-ups and plothax everywhere, not that much unlike Bleach or Naruto or whatever.

>>2131852
...Err...
Nah, never mind.

>>2131852
>What's so hard to understand,

Well, a few things. For example it's hard for you to understand that no genre is limited to one demographic, no demographic to one genre, and the two have little to do with each other. I can only guess that this is caused by the fact that your experience with manga was limited to the few most popular series, which happen to be both fighting and shonen.

>retard?

/a/ is that way ->

Happened to Nrvnqsr and Roa too. Nrvnqsr got overconfident and decided to torture Shiki, while Roa... well, he pretty much had the equivalent for a living program that stuffs memories in people and drives them insane throughout the entirety of Tsukihime, not having remembered how to do his Sorcery in time for the final battle.

>>2131933
I've seen quite a bit of shounen fighting and am quite sure F/SN fighting is quite atypical to the genre. Please do tell me exactly how it's soooo superior and mature compared to other shit like it, mister Type-Moon fanboy sir.

And no, I haven't been to /a/ after the split.

>>2132091
>I've seen quite a bit of shounen fighting

...and not a lot of anything else, apparently.

>Please do tell me exactly how it's soooo superior and mature compared to other shit like it

And here's another thing you don't understand. You think shonen is an insult meaning "immature". Well, wrong. It's just a demographic. A general indication of the target audience of the anthology the comic appears in. You're like those people who think M-rated movies are more mature than PG-13.

>mister Type-Moon fanboy sir

Huh?

>And no, I haven't been to /a/ after the split.

>>2132155
What the fuck, what makes you think I used shounen as a derogatory term? I used it because it correctly describes the fighting in F/SN as it's akin to most shounen fighting series, period.

And I've watched quite a bit of everything, including shounen fightan'. I also haven't said I particularly like the genre either.

Fuck, go back to wherever you came from and stay there. Please.

>>2132210
>What the fuck, what makes you think I used shounen as a derogatory term?

>Please do tell me exactly how it's soooo superior and mature compared to other shit like it

As the jury can see, the defendant clearly implies that stating something is not shonen means it's superior and mature, which in turn implies that something that is shonen is inferior and immature.

>the genre

Not a quick learner, are you?

>>2132210
The point is, your argument 'F/SN fighting ois like generic action Shounen fighting' is only supported by 'LOL,random powerups and plothax', which do NOT happen in F/SN.

I do not say the fighting is actually good, but it's very different then what you suggest.

>>2132234
You know exactly what he means and are being deliberately obtuse because THAT'S NOT WHAT THE TERM MEANS MY POWER IS MAXIMUM.

>>2131782

Poor Taiga. ;_;

>>2132210
>Fuck, go back to wherever you came from and stay there. Please.

I'd honestly prefer if you did this, instead of the person you're talking to. We have powerlevel threads all the time, as well as just about everything you could possibly discuss about TM, but I've never seen anybody in those threads be so blatantly disrespectful to their peers as you are.

>>2132251
Yeah. That's why I didn't even want to talk to him in the first place, just point this out. Then he started writing long posts insulting me and "explaining" himself... and now we're here.

You faggots have short term memories.

Caster got her pride hurt and told Kuzuki to back off, even though he would have finished Saber.

Ilya spared Shirou over plot convenience.

Rider never took her visor off during her Fate fight with Saber.

Gilgamesh definitely isn't the only F/SN villain that blew his chances of victory on stupidity or just holding the villain ball. Almost all of them continuously pass on surefire chances of victory until Shirou and company can come up with a way to win.

>the villain ball

Is this where they drink wine and dance to classical music?

>>2132234
Look, I was being sarcastic. You were the one that was implying F/SN isn't, in fact, like typical shounen fighting. Thus I thought you were a Type-Moon fanboy that can't accept the facts and thinks F/SN is something, in your opinion, more mature and better. That wasn't my opinion on it, I thought it was yours though. I'm glad if we've both come to the conclusion F/SN fight are typically shounenish, though. You haven't provided any evidence to the contrary, at least, and thus I haven't changed my opinion on the fightan'.

>>2132291
You were the one writing the longer posts.

>>2132286
I insult the guys insulting me.

>>2132335
Nothing about Pride.Tried to rule break her and gain her as a servant. Saber recovered fast.
Ilya did not lose the fight or anything. She also has conflicted feelings about Shirou, due to him stealing Kiritsugu, but also wants to know him better due to that connection. Seeing him jump to his death made her to postpone the death (and as seen later, she tries to make Shirou 'hers'). Not exactly plot convenience.

Rider is the only sketchy point, and it could be that either cause she doesn't WANT to fight at Fullest ( I blame Shinji) or because it would barely be effective against Saber's resistance, it would be off.

Well, you got about HALF out of 3.

>>2132335
Caster had Kuzuki back off because she wanted to Rule Break Saber.

Ilya is a special case; killing Shirou too quickly would've ruined her fun. She wanted to corrupt/enslave him, remember?

Rider arguably didn't have time, and really didn't have any reason. She was on top for pretty much all of their fight, so why bother taking off the mask when she could be attacking/blocking an attack?

>>2132374

Rider at the school had all her mana put into maintaining the bloodfort. She couldnt have used another nobel phantasm in tandem. Once the bloodfort was stopped she instantly used pegasus to get away. Not really any chance to take her visor off there.

On the building, she instantly used Bellophon, believing that it would beat Saber in one hit so it was unessercery for her to remove her visor then either.

In Fate, if Kotomine hadn't been all "Look at me! I have tentacle things to hit you with!" and had just stabbed that dirty little fucker, everything would have been fine.

>>2132550
He doesn't have perfect control over the mud, and is not in the same condition as HF so no reason to go at it like a deadman.
He'd rather keep his distance, play it safe and let the curse do the work. Bad tactic choice, as proved in the end.

Besides, Kotomine is very unconventional as a villain and mastermind.
He always chooses the 'FUCK EVERYTHING UP AND TORMENT', then the practical solution, since he desires chaos, amusement and his unique goals moreso than 'victory'.

>>2132569
After knocking Shirou down one of the ten or so times, he could've stuck keys through his hands or some shit, and just burned him away slowly while going on about Kiritsugu this and that.

I don't think torture works as an excuse, but whatever.

sure is tvtropes in here

>>2132596
Shirou calls upon a little Avalon, so the result would have been nearly the same.