/jp/ - Otaku Culture

Sure is repost around here.

No.

HF is considered shit here, I liked it though. UBW was definitely the best route for me though

UBW is the best route. HF is a bit screwy, but it reveals the "true mystery" behind everything and you get to see True Assassin and Kotomine being badass. Shirou does a few cool things too, although he's more of a faggot than in UBW.

Why do you ask?
You're going to play it anyway.

gb2/a/ and take your GAR with you.

I thought HF was the best route by quite a bit.

That said, I don't think Fate/stay Night is particularly GAR overall and would rather play MinDead Blood or Ayakashibito for that sort of thing. As such, I liked FSN mostly for the naki/utsu elements that are only really present in Heaven's Feel. (same reason I liked Kohaku and Hisui routes in Tsukihime the most)

Just coming in to say that I consider HF to be easily the worst of the three.

If you've liked F/SN so far why the hell would you not play the last route?

>>2073826

Me too, I much preferred UBW.

>>2073789

Fuck yes, this is probably one of the most badass CGs ever made.

>>2073835

Too bad Assassin looks ugly as dick in every other CG.

Stupid sickass arms and bony chest.

UBW would be great if it's not for that tsundere shit.

>>2073842

Real men prefer crushing bone over useless meat flab

>>2073805

Go to /a/ and they'd all bitch about taking it here.
No one has even mentioned the anime in this thread yet.

Why is UBW the best route you say ?

Because of this.

HF IS THE BEST ROUTE, IF YOU DISAGREE YOU ARE A FAGGOT

>>2074022
Because Sakura is the best girl and Shirou acts so GAR

>>2074022
You get to turn your back on the potential of becoming a badass superhero just so you can fuck some slut with big tits.

How is that "best route" material?

>>2074027

The only times Shirou were GAR was when he stood against the face of all odds for his pure love and dedication towards his impossible dream despite being weak, living his life with no regrets one step at a time.

Fate route, bitches.

>>2074053

Fate Route + Last Episode is so happy I tear up just thinking about it.

UBW Good is really awesome too.

And, OP, you might as well just stop now, or play through on skip to collect your Tiger Stamps.

Sakura > Saber

I just finished UBW too. I had a shit-eating grin on while Shirou was kicking Gilgamesh's ass.

>>2074063
I was sort of depressed. I didn't want to see my hero defeated by that punk.

Generally, people who loved UBW absolutely hate HF, OP, so it's your call.

>>2074073
See my post >>2073785

>>2074072
brofist sir, gilgamesh is the only man with his shit straight .

>>2074062

You aren't going to troll me with that tonight.

>>2074062

I agree, Sakura is larger than Saber in more ways than one.

That slut.

>>2073775

HF is like the Antithesis of the message in Fate and UBW.

Also, too long and too much cookan'

>>2074073
I thought they were both mediocre and about as good as Fate.

>>2074122
Then what, pray tell, is your favorite visual novel?

>>2074114

No, UBW gave the same message but added in a "WELL FUCK THAT SHIT".
It's the opposite of Fate's message, and UBW is having your cake and swording it too.

I was bawling at the end of UBW, but then again, Archer was my favorite character. Just his good bye with Rin and then the fact he couldn't be saved . . . Yet he wasn't wrong.

>>2074136

So in essence:

Fate: YES I CAN

Unlimited Blade Works: SCREW YOU, I'M DOING IT ANYWAY

Heaven's Feel: NO, I CAN'T

>>2074151

Mind of Steel: I did.

>>2074129
I dunno...offhand I'd say Tsukihime was better, Ever17 and probably Phantom of Inferno, which are pretty much the big 3 here anyway.

Quick thought, what would happen if Fate Shirou found himself in the Heaven's Feel route?

>>2074181
He would die to black saber after fruitlessly trying to get her to turn back.

>>2074181

Caliburn Spam.

>>2074184

Black Saber probably wouldn't even exist.

>>2074189
I dont see why not, Saber disobeyed shirou in Fate and ran off to the temple, and she would probably do the same in HF.

>>2074181

Probably something really, really awesome.

>>2074196
You do realize that she only got defeated in HF because Shirou was in her way, right?

>>2073835

His left hand.

>>2074196

Yeah, but Shirou caught on and saved her before shit went down.

Also, she only ran off because she thought Shirou was being a coward.

Could someone explain something real quick for me?

What exactly did Shioru do in the beginning that set everything in motion for HF?

The difference between Fate and UBW make sense to me at least, since Rin doesn't join you. But what exactly made the 'powers that be' decide to go down the HF route?

Did Sakura's grandfather suddenly get REALLY into the war after seeing Shioru? Did he just go 'man, fuck this- this guy's a total pussy, Ima fuck him up for mah grail'

>>2074181
The same things would probably happen, except he wouldn't give up on his ideal and would try and save everyone. So basically all the same stuff would happen, except Saber wouldn't die because he'd just go after Sakura instead of dealing a finishing blow.

>>2074208
Plot hole. There's no valid explanation for it.

Pretty much the whole HF route is like this. It's like Nasu didn't give a fuck anymore.

>>2074208

You can go through the motions of getting onto the HF Route before you can get on it, (hang out with Sakura. Yeah, that's it) and nothing happens.

So, I don't rightly know why. It didn't make a lot of sense to me either.

>>2074208
There's nothing really that Shirou does that can explain how Zouken gets involved. HF isn't "you make different choices so things happen differently". It's more like a completely different universe.

>>2074208
He could've been killed early on (like by Gilgamesh, he was hanging around their house a lot), but because Shirou was there in HF they didn't have a chance, for example

>>2074211
>>2074214
>>2074215
Then how sure are we that Shinji was raping Sakura in the first two routes?

I mean, if Zoken can suddenly decide he totally wants that grail now, but ONLY in HF, maybe the worst thing Shinji did in Fate/UBW was just beat the slut out of her. Maybe he was the hero.

>>2074219

Like Gilgamesh gives a fuck if another mongrel is there to skewer.

In all honesty, there's no explanation. As >>2074214 pointed out, you can do pretty much all the things required to get on Heaven's Feel when you first boot up the game, but nothing happens. It doesn't make sense, and Heaven's Feel seems to be Nasu's personal faproute. That's the only real reason I can see why it's there.

>>2074229
So Shirou died in the Normal End just because Nasu was jealous and wanted Sakura for himself, huh?

>>2074208

Sakura had no hope that she would ever hook up with Shirou. When he starts to pay attention to her she, however unwillingly, starts to hope for this. Zouken notices and decides that this is the perfect oppotunity to make his bid for the grail.

>>2074235
You can pay attention to her all you like and not trigger it the first two times through. Did you read?

this is the best part of UBW

>>2074235
Then where was Zouken earlier?

>>2074235

Kind of weak reasoning but it's better than nothing, I guess.

>>2074237

Arbitery design decision to stop you getting on her route first. No different from any VN with an unlockable route.

>>2074244
Yes, it is different from how other Nasuverse VNs have been set up. In them, you were not permitted to make a certain choice to change the story. For HF, you could make the right choices and it would randomly just not happen without explanation.

>>2074244
They had that design for UBW, but it was only as if you were FORCED to let Saber attack, instead of given a choice.

HF's transition is different.

>>2074235

You can garner the same feelings before Heaven's Feel is accessible. It would be one thing if there was a magic new choice like "Stop Saber", but really, nothing changes but the outcome.

>>2074247

>>2074247

Seriously. You do all the right choices, Shirou walks her home...and that's it.

>>2074247
Hmm, yeah, that's probably why HF felt off to me. Tsukihime, Kagetsu Tohya, and Fate/UBW unlocked different choices to produce new routes and events.

Fine, think of it like this. Instead of Shirou doing something to change events, Sakura made a choice and set the whole thing in motion. In the other two routes she chickened out. In HF she decided to allow herself some hope.

>>2074254

Yeah, didn't Shirou feel a chill, like somebody was watching him, but that was it?

>>2074258
So, in other words, PLOT HOLE.

>>2074208
Butterfly effect

>>2074258

Doesn't hold water. Nothing else changes except this outcome. Why should it be any different this time? There is no answer.

>>2074265
Then what was butterfly?

Regardless of the "why did HF happen" I still found it to be the most enjoyable route, though UBW was cool as well.

>>2074266
Actually, it does. While your choices have most of the effect in F/SN, making Heavens Feel accessible through this method makes the whole thing a bit more immersive, because somebody else is making a decision that affects the outcome.

>>2074274
Who is making the choice and why?

>>2074274

It sounds like you're making excuses. I didn't feel any of the extra immersion you're talking about and, once again, the process was exactly the same the previous two times. There is no reason why it is suddenly different.

>>2074274
More immersive?

Do you know anything about physics?

I liked UBW a lot because of the MANLY VIOLENCE, but Sakura's backstory really touched me. A woman sold to a dirty old bastard, raped daily by men nearby and her very bodily appearance altered to suit their whims. It fucking saddened me that her only happiness came from MAKING FUCKING BREAKFAST FOR SHIROU. Goddamn. I'll never think of women the same, they've got it rough. I mean, the stuff that happened to Sakura is fictional, but I mean the emotional damage that was inflicted on her by her family was just wrong. No one deserves to be treated like an object.

>>2074181

Dual wielding Caliburn against Black Berserker.

>>2074286

14-Lives Taker!?

>>2074291
That sounds ridiculously awesome.

>>2074288

It made me fap, I don't know what your problem is.

Saber pic because she's the best.

>>2074288
I only really came to appreciate Sakura's backstory after I read volume 1 of Fate/Zero and read about Kariya.

Goddamn I actually feel for this guy.

The more obvious reason for HF's odd start would be that it's supposed to be the grand finale of the VN, even if the way the story gets there doesn't really make sense it'd make even less sense for you to be able to reach the final chapter first.

>>2074277
Sakura is making the choice, for the same reason that you choose whether or not to let Saber fuck up Archer's shit. It's a choice that's there, and this is a rare occasion of somebody else doing something that affects the outcome (though you could argue that every time you die because of not enough relationship points is such a time).

>>2074278
It's suddenly different for the same reason that somebody who gets the True UBW End on one run and then gets the Good End on the next is different. Somebody made a decision, and it altered the outcome; this just happens to be somebody making a decision from within the game, who only makes that decision starting from the third run.

>>2074282
Not much. My guess is I heard the word somewhere, or tried to work off of a different word. You understood what I meant, though, right?

>>2074299

The word you were looking for is verisimilitude, and no, even if you're right it really doesn't help it. In fact it's quite a let down.

I was expecting some extra scene or something, but nope, all I had to do was kill time with Sakura, something I had been doing in the other routes.

>>2074299
...No, no. I'm saying that it's physically impossible for Sakura to make a different choice.

That's why one path is always chosen as canon in games. It's clear that the other paths couldn't have really happened.

>>2074303
And this time, Sakura decided to let herself hope. Considering every route is an alternate universe, is that really so hard to believe?

>>2074304
She doesn't actually make a different choice, but then again, Shirou doesn't actually make hundreds of swords out of nothing. It's fiction, and is it really so difficult to extend your suspension of disbelief to include the story being written as though characters within could make a choice?

>>2074304
Ah, but the other paths DID happen. As did an infinite number of others that we didn't get to experience.

>>2074299
Nah, here's the thing.

With the relationship "decisions" these choices are basically just reactions.

It'd be like you choosing to swing a sword at a guy's head. He ducks. That was his choice, but you're the one that made him choose. Choices by other characters are just reactions to what you have already chosen.

There's nothing different between taking the same exact route from before finishing Fate for the first time and after finishing UBW.

Nasu kinda tried to pull this shit off with Tsukihime, but the reasons there were very, very clear.

>>2074312

But nothing changed.

There was no different input for her to reach a different conclusion. No different stimulus, no different factors.

The idea doesn't make sense because events determine decision making. 1+1 will always equal 2. While human interaction is vastly more complicated, considering that NO additional variables are brought into play and all other things remain as a constant your theory becomes bullshit.

>>2074312
I don't think you understand the difference between "internal consistency" and "inconsistency."

Just because it doesn't fit every rule of our world doesn't mean it doesn't have rules. For the story to exist at all, it must be impossible for the characters to exist. There's no other way.

>>2074312
I don't think you understand the difference between "internal consistency" and "inconsistency."

Just because it doesn't fit every rule of our world doesn't mean it doesn't have rules. For the story to exist at all, it must be impossible for the characters to make decisions. There's no other way.

>>2074319
No, they didn't.

>>2074320
But they could choose to react differently. They don't, of course, because it's not written that way, but they could. It only happens once in F/SN, but it does happen. Somebody besides Shirou makes a decision based on Shirou's hanging out with Sakura. Being with her in the first two routes doesn't get you into the third route because whoever made that crucial decision decided otherwise for the first two.

The PROBLEM is that Sakura's decision is NOT random. It is based solely on whether or not you have finished UBW. Which of course is impossible.

There is a difference between automatically making one choice for a route, then giving them options the next run, but the necessary fan-wanking logistics to make Sakura's decision possible are mind boggling.

>>2074331

But nothing changed. There is no factor causing the events to be different. That doesn't hold up to scrutiny

>>2074324
1+1 will always equal 2, but if somebody ends a Nanaya blockstring against me badly, there are many different ways for me to take advantage of it. The exact same stimulus is present no matter how many times it ends that way, yet what I choose can change.

You're thinking too linearly.

>>2074334
No factor that we know of, no. But how do we know that the 6 billion-some-odd other people in the game's world go through the exact same motions regardless of how many times we make the same decisions in-game? We don't know, and we can't assume, because we are never let into their lives. So why is it so hard to believe that, regardless of what you do, somebody else in the game's world has a say in what happens? Why is it hard to wrap your head around the idea that people are, at heart, random, and that such a trait could quite easily translate into the game's fictional world?

>>2074337

Unfortunately, that's incorrect. You were bound to make the choice you did based on comparing external factors to internal tendencies. Without the ability to compare your choice to an earlier one, you will make the exact same choice every time.

Meaning if I could rewind time to that blockstring, you would choose the exact same way to punish him no matter how many times I reset you, into infinity.

Visual Novels are a perfect example of this.

>>2074341
>random

And therein lies your problem.

There is no randomness, the decision is clearly influenced by whether or not YOU have unlocked the route. In fact, that's the ONLY factor (provided you've given him the opportunity to make the decision by hanging out with sakura)

>>2074341

People aren't random.

See >>2074343

A Visual Novel resets the timeline to zero but allows you to change aspects of the situation. If you choose the same choice, the reactions will always be the same. Shirou never has a different internal monologue if you choose the same choice twice.

The real world also follows this logic.

>>2074349
>>2074343
So what the two of you are saying is that there's no such thing as free will, and that humanity is governed entirely by chemical processes.

>>2074344
I'm not saying it isn't, I'm suggesting that it was written like it wasn't. It's written that, once you've completed UBW, certain actions will cause certain things to happen. But the game is designed in such a way that allows the player to, if they are fully allowing themselves into the game world, feel as if someone within the game has made a decision.

>>2074353

Nope, it was certainly your free will that made that choice. It's just without the ability to compare that choice to another, or factor in new experience, you will always make the same decision.

>>2074343
Araya also demonstrates this in KnK 5 with his Death-Repition experiment

>>2074353
You're free to do whatever,

And you'll, of your own volition, chose the same thing under the exact same circumstances.

>>2074356
You realize you're questioning the entire base theory of quantum mechanics, right?

>>2074353
You're confusing determinism and fatalism. We do have free will, but... >>2074356.

>>2074359
So you're claiming to understand quantum mechanics?

I can now safely say that you don't understand quantum mechanics.

>>2074359

Decisions in life aren't heavily dependent (if at all) on quantum mechanics.

>>2074359
Yeah well I don't use Planck's constant for biology either.

>>2074351

I don't buy it, and the posts above me show why.

>>2074361
Nobody really understands it, but I do understand that at least one application is that electrons have no pattern, only probabilities. So why is it so hard to understand that we, with such a strong link to electrons (it's how our brains work, after all) would have no element of randomness?

Of course, it's genuinely impossible to test; in the end, you have your beliefs and I have mine. I think, given a thousand reruns with the exact same circumstances, I might choose orange juice with my breakfast instead of apple juice. You seem to think I'll always take the apple juice.

Our beliefs are irreconcilable, so there's really no reason to continue this discussion (also, I made the mistake of bringing up quantum anything, so it's just going to go to shit).

Why is /jp/ discussing Quantum Mechanics?

>>2074353
"Free will" is a terrible holdover from the past with too much historical discussion attached to it. The decisions people make are based on everything that has gone into making their character at the time of the decision. What would influence a person to choose one thing or another, if not those prior factors?

>>2074373
Because we're magnificent bastards who think we know everything.

Pic related; it's my role model.

>>2074370
Then let me ask you this: Shirou has the exact same stimulus, experience, etc. no matter how many times you go through a choice, so what makes him choose otherwise? You, of course. Whoever causes Heavens Feel has the same situation; they choose otherwise because the writer decided they would.

>>2074373
This is exactly what I was talking about when I said
>(also, I made the mistake of bringing up quantum anything, so it's just going to go to shit).

>>2074372

Our brain does work off electrons, but it's a misconception to say that motions on a quantum scale would effect decision making. The process we call thought is actually a highly advanced response to external stimuli and much of it is based as much in the chemical as in the electrical.

Even if your quantum motions were different, you would reach the same conclusion due to the external factors and your internal processes to understand, interpret and decide on these factors being 100% the same. Humans are incapable of true random thought, after all.

LETS TALK ABOUT CALCULUS NEXT!

>>2074379

But there are no changed stimulus, for anyone. The only input in the world is YOU.

>>2074386
Fucking hate Bernoulli's equation. Not so much because of what it is, but because I'm being forced to learn it for (get this) a computer programming degree.

What the fuck, college. What the fuck.

>>2074388
And the writer, who decided that once you've completed UBW, somebody who isn't you will do something different to spark Heavens Feel.

In fact, to be honest, I'd have to say we lacked free will if the world really was indeterministic. After all, we wouldn't be making a decision, but instead allowing some random factor to make one for us.

>>2074390

But there is no something different. There is no someone different. There is NOTHING DIFFERENT IN THE WORLD. Only a bit of source code in your Fate/Stay Night program has changed.

Your logic is faulty.

>>2074394

This is the kicker.

Nothing about the actual Fate/Stay Night story has changed, just a bit of the game. It wrecks the sense of a cohesive setting.

>>2074394
How is it faulty? Given the exact same situation, Shirou makes completely different and usually conflicting choices, because WE DECIDE that he will. So why is it so hard to understand that somebody else in the game makes a different decision because THE PROGRAMMERS decide that he/she will once you've passed a certain point?

So, basically, we've learned that by all accounts, HF should not happen, seeing as how all the major factors have the ability to go through the same processes and circumstances down to a T.

Okay, good to know. Can we talk about the awesome idea of Dual Caliburns now?

>>2074399
Shirou just about burned out the right half of his body making ONE. Making two would kill him.

>>2074397

Because that someone shouldn't exist by all accounts. Everybody relevant to the story will stay constant.

>>2074402

Dat's what you think.

Actually, Rin was pissed off he was just fine, if you'll remember. Berserker did more damage to him than the tracing did.

>>2074397
Because the developers aren't making a decision. No one is.

There's a difference between making a decision and programming something to make a decision for you. The idea is that the game is the game and cannot make decisions while the user is the user and can make decisions. Anything the game does is a direct response to this, so it's only logical for the same decision to have the same results time and time again. If the results arbitrarily change, the game has made a decision, which ruins the experience--you're not longer reading a story, but instead playing a game, and you are suddenly acutely aware of this.

>>2074401
Except, of course, Shirou, the single most relevant person to the story, who changes his mind and ideals on a whim of the player.

So why shouldn't some other character make a choice on the whim of the writer?

>>2074402
You're forgetting that Shirou was immortal in Fate--until the final battle, at least.

>>2074402

Shirou was actually very much okay from projecting Caliburn. Getting his arm nearly broken off from the shock of taking Berserker's blow head on many times in a row was a hell of a lot worse for him.

>>2074407
But if the game never makes any decisions, you get the exact same results no matter how many times you do something. That doesn't seem game-like to you?

>>2074417
No, it doesn't. It seems realistic.

Basically, games are supposed to seem like they're not games, else they become less immersive.

>>2074411

A character that makes a different choice cannot exist. All the relevant characters will be experiencing the same events and influences and circumstances.

This theoretical person is irrational and illogical, and can't exist.

...God dammit, I should've just stopped after pointing out that we see things differently.

>>2074425
Because you don't want to reconsider your position?

>>2074428
No, because the conversation will never go anywhere as all of our positions are based on something that accounts to little more than blind faith.

>>2074419
But VNs also shouldn't make jarring changes, or else risk a WTF response.

"Suddenly, HF, Zouken, and the Shadow!" when you've done nothing different is not consistent with the earlier hours of gameplay. It produces dissonance, like a strategy RPG suddenly turning into a FPS halfway through.

>>2074431
"A game is not supposed to seem like a game or else it's less immersive" is blind faith?

Are you stupid?

>>2074431

Fool! My argument is from SCIENCE!!

>>2074436
...What? That's not what we were discussing, we were discussing whether or not people who aren't Shirou can affect the outcome of a run-through.

>>2074438
And the answer is that it shouldn't be so, because it seems more like a game if they can.

>>2074438

Which was disproven.

>>2074442
Shouldn't be, but it apparently is.

>>2074443
Except Heavens Feel says otherwise.


And, dammit, I'm not going to respond anymore. We're going around in circles.

>>2074399

More of this.

Less of existential shit

>>2074449

YAY! I WON AN INTERNET ARGUMENT!

WHAT DO I WIN!?

Listen, if quantum mechanics can affect our decision-making, it should also be able to affect computers, making them useless for calculations.

It just doesn't make sense. Whether there's some element of randomness to the world or not, it's impossible for a human being to make a different decision when placed in the same situation over and over.

>>2074452
Didn't look much like an argument to me, just some people discussing stuff and then going their separate ways. Pretty bizarre stuff to discuss, though.

>>2074449

You're referring to the Nasu Fairy, who sits on Zouken's shoulder, and only prods him to do evil things after you've finished the best route in the game.

>>2074450
Stop being a retard with ADD.
Any topic is fair game.

>>2074450

Okay then, Fate Shirou in HF would kill Berserker by SHOOTING CALIBURN AS A BROKEN PHANTASM!

>>2074458
As long as it's related to Fate/stay night, of course.

>>2074459

Win. Shit would be SO cash.

>>2074459
I'm pretty sure that kind of ridiculous shit could one-shot any enemy.

>>2074459

Better yet. Original Nine Lives Taker, but instead of shooting homing lasers, Shirou tricks it out to shoot homing Caliburns.

>>2074472

This Anon posits that this shit be off the hook.

It would also have a Saber and Rider threesome. And Archer and Saber would both survive the war somehow.

>>2074477

FUND IT.
Just, fucking fund it. Someone.

So, what would Fate Shirou do when his arm gets busted by the shadow?
Destroy the shadow with B0rken Phantasm Caliburn and shit never happened?

>>2074479
NEETs can't fund.

Maybe you should ask us to cooperatively produce it.

>>2074481

He'd probably blow the shit out of it with Caliburn, yeah. Or just shrug it off like when he gets covered in Angra Mainyu juice at the end of Fate Route.

>>2074481
Regenerate it.

>>2074480

Everyone saves up as much money as they can by fasting if nothing else works.
Then we can't find anyone who takes care of the collecting the money and funding stuff, we give up and use the money on new figs or something.

>>2074481

Yeah, Fate Shirou is practically immortal. I don't see him having a problem with this.

>>2074481

Trace On.
Avalon is the sheathe of my blade.
HEART OF STEEL, BLADES AND AVALON ENDING.

>>2074487
Figs are for fags. Real men spend all of their money improving their computers and Internet connections.

>>2074486

Could Shirou actually project his own arm? I mean it's not like he doesn't know how it's built or anything.

>>2074493
Protip: Arm != Sword

>>2074495

That was kinda the problem I had in mind but sheath =! sword is also true.

>>2074493

He has a really hard time with non-sword things

>>2074493
Shirou is the bone of his sword, not the bone of his arm.

In fact, a key plot point is that he actually uses himself as his energy source for magic, so trying to regenerate himself by destroying himself... Sounds weird, doesn't it?

Personally, I think this new Shirou would actually use a bow and phantasm-arrows, kind of like Archer.

>>2074500

It does. Guess I'll have to believe he's not going to be doing that kinda stuff then.

>>2074453
But human brains are highly parallel, and evolution didn't carefully design them to be free of race conditions. It's very plausible that the brain is non-deterministic.

hey I only have the patch for ubw installed currently, if I install the final patch will I lose my game saves?