/jp/ - Otaku Culture

>>20545425
what a cute goblin

God trying to learn this language makes me feel retarded

>>20545425
Is keeping a diary in japanese a decent "beginners" consistent writing practice?
Have any of you done it?

>>20545474
japs feel the same way about English though

>>20545474
Surrender to your queen already

>>20545496
yes but the day I can actually write about everything I want to say will be the day I'll become near-native. if you just want to string together baby sentences then sure it's fun

>>20545496
do it on lang 8, so you can get it corrected.

I studied today!

>>20545799
おめでとうの勉強

>>20545814
「おめでとう」と言われてからのさらのお勉強なのか

>start of 2019
>start of 4th attempt at learning japanese
This time for sure!

>>20545891
Just remember the end goal. Reading shitty moege no one else can

does anybody know where I can find eromanga sensei ln vol 2-10 in a kindle friendly format?

>>20546193
In the Amazon store

How do I get off refreshing 4chan and just start studying every single day?

>>20546249
binge on japanese sns instead

>>20546249
every since they changed the refresh time i find it a lot less satisfying to pound f5

i haven't really read in like 2 months so i'm gonna go back and read the beginning of that VN to see if it magically has gotten easier to read even though i've only been reading example sentences from DoJG in that time.

Wat do djt

>>20546403
Delete all the easy cards that you know come up frequently enough in reading that you dont need them in anki (you are reading right?)

better yet delete anki and start learning japanese.

>Delete all the easy cards that you know come up frequently enough in reading that you dont need them in anki
When does this effect kick in? 6 months? 12 months? Definitely doesn't happen in 3 months. I'm living proof.

>>20546424
idk dude anki helps quite a bit with kanji reading retention, whenever I fall off on my reps its quite noticeable

>>20546426
if you have a card for 食べる stop existing

>>20546442
That's a rare instance where a word feels both distinct enough, and appears frequently enough that I learned it without anki. But that's only because it popped up with extreme frequency in certain grammar guides.

how long have u been "learning" nihongo and how much of this do u understand

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5y4L4bneyM#t=77

I love when misa doesn't wear a bra.

some of u guys should prolly be wearin a bra

>>20546249
I use the stopwatch on my phone to time my reading. That way, even if I get distracted, which I do, I can still see exactly how much time I've spent studying and I just don't call it a day till I reach 2-3 hours.

>>20546451
but eventually every word is distinct if you read more. i deleted ~3000 out of ~4000 cards at the 8 month point and felt no difference other than my reps going from 30 mins a day to 10. there comes a point when you don't need a card for shit like 嘘、約束、塩

>>20546464
where didn't she wear a bra?

>>20546457
if you're gonna post hip hop at least post the good stuff
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFAvZtrJhZk

>>20546476
how much reading every day

>>20546403
しかく
anki頼みにやってながらこれくらいも読めないと語学者失格と思う
普通に読書とかやれよ
蛇丸さまのおっしゃるとおり

>>20546476
>had a card for the first 2 words
>still couldn't read them

>>20546457
Tomodachi to fuck it up is my favorite line in all of your reposted rap vids just thought id bring that up

>>20546485
>how much reading every day
depends how hard the material you are reading is to you. what u reading?

>>20546457
Lil YamaGucci is honestly a really cool name

>>20546515
that tracks fuckin fiyahh dude

half of it neway

>>20546524
yah also ftw

anki droning is like a fucking a 10/10 in the ass compared to the bullshit stats lectures I just had to memorize, fuckin hell

>>20546535
you can use anki for stuff other than japanese, you know

>>20546535
I'm so glad I dropped out of education. I wouldn't have stood it.

>>20546542
i can learn it all to completion by the time i'd finish making the flash cards, what's the point

my IQ is too high to understand anki

how do you even install decks, what is a deck, and how come there's no interactive things you can do with it, i dont get it

maybe watching more anime is the only way for me

hows about you suck a deck

>>20546249
I only use 4chan on mobile and limit myself to a couple generals. That way I can still scratch the 4chan itch, but it’s a lot less addicting and I am spending a lot less time (from all day to about 1h)
A couple minutes ago I was just about to browse /wsg/ becuse I remembered a funny webm, then I remembered I’d need to use mobile which is a lot more inconvenient and I suddenly lost interest and decided to vist DJT instead.

>>20546570
if you learn kanji from anime I think you should be teaching the japanese their own language

>>20545891
Who are you quoting?

>>20546570
>how do you even install decks,
you dont. anybody who ever has doesnt deserve japanese 熟女sとSWERVIN'

>>20546570
if you can't figure those things out i worry you might not have the cognitive capacity to function as a human being

>>20546579
its not kanji specifically, just japanese in general

ive been told you need to learn kanji from the beginning or you'll be left behind or something

>>20546606
For a while romaji was most commonly used, then hiragana, now finally kanji. the reason for this was that not teaching gaijin hiragana made them feel that japanese text didn't matter or wasn't strictly important. and teaching hiragana but delaying kanji only made gaijin notice that they still couldn't read jack shit. so now everyone is pushed into kanji from the start

>>20546648
i feel like everyone is discouraging me to learn all the time in here, maybe you are right

>>20546673
>i feel like everyone is discouraging me to learn all the time in here,
That's our favorite pass time round these parts.

found the esl

>>20546673
you don't need to use anki my dude
my knowledge of kanji is average native level and I think I've used anki for about a week before dropping it. I'm not Chinese either. 2-3 years and you'll be there.

>>20546673
Nah, once you start learning kanji you'll be actually able to read shit which makes everything easier. When Jap natives say that the language is easier to read with kanji they are not just flexing on how many kanji they know, they are correct.
If you want to learn conversational Japanese you're better of joining a class where you get to speak with people instead of doing self study.

>>20546193
just download the regular manga and use kindle comic converter its ez

>>20546681
Isnt that the other way around? ESLs output English that sounds weird spoken but has perfect spelling, and natives can't spell; or was that a weird sentence all around?

>>20546741
>pass time

>>20546748
yeah it's properly spelled pastime, so what?

>>20546741
>>20546748
I'm a native though.

i personally had it as 50/50 while erring on the side of intentional

manga is just boneless novels

i like my novels like i like my chicken

boneless

I like my novels like I like my ass
boned
だってあたいはゲイだもん

shame on a ninja

>>20546476
>but eventually every word is distinct if you read more
Well yea that's why I asked for the specific time frame. Of course reading seems to get you there eventually but it seems to waste a ton of time compared to just using anki.

>>20546820
how is it a waste of time. you just want to learn kanji? you're not interested in japanese content?

Is anyone familiar with the Japanese "Test of Employment Aptitude"? It sounds like it asks basic stuff and is multiple-choice. Has anyone here taken it?

>>20546828
Looking up every word or looking up enough words to make something comprehensible while reading is not interesting.

>>20546820
the timeframe is different from person to person. delete the card when its easy. you'll just know

>>20546833
So you don't want to learn, OK

>>20546833
it was interesting to me

>>20546831
I don't remember the specific English name for it, but I saw something that sounds like that for gaijin and getting work visas and residency, but can't say I took it.

>>20546833
ye sure but that ends pretty fucking quickly not that you'll ever know

spend 5 minutes reviewing your forgotten cards for the day

>>20546841
"So you don't want to acquire" and my answer to that is "Correct because it's boring as fuck".
>>20546842
I envy you.
>>20546844
>ye sure but that ends pretty fucking quickly
You're full of shit.

>>20546842
do what u like no matter what the haters say

>>20546852
How do you envision getting to a place where you don't have to lookup words?

>>20546858
Reading and mining.

>>20546852
>You're full of shit.
literally 6 months in i could read most manga without too much trouble. 10,5 months in there's about a new word every 3-4 pages in most novels. if that isn't quickly you'll never learn anything.

>>20546852
Found the EOP

>>20546860
Huh? Isn't this you >>20546820

>>20546862
Well maybe I have to go back to reading for another 3 months and I'll be where you were at. Somehow I doubt it and somehow I think you're lying or telling half-truths or just a genius.
>>20546868
Yea. Reading is more "fun" than anki but 5 minutes of anki help more than an hour of reading.

>>20546880
>I think you're lying or telling half-truths or just a genius.
watch any 1 year ajatt update video other than https://youtu.be/bD5ppr2cvaU and you will see that literally anybody can do it

>>20546880
Reading has other benefits like actually teaching you the language though

>sonic shirt
>retarded hair
>neckbeard
>white
>zero proof of proficiency

yep looks like a typical ajatter vid

>>20546887
All of those people are still shit at Japanese and just make vague claims without demonstrating any skills.

>>20546853
ありがとナス

>>20546880
my experience is similar to that anon's but I'm native in russian and spent a long time getting better at english before starting japanese, so it could be the bilingual boost that yurotrash and spics like to talk about.

>>20546896
kek

>>20546912
I'm a native speaker of both a Slavic language and of English and I learned a third language on my own later in life and have found 0 benefits from any of it. Sounds like some bullshit.

What happens when an AJATTer who hasn't been studying for 4+ years attempts to demonstrate their skill
https://youtu.be/z1O1halQ74A?t=14
Same guy claimed in an earlier video he could "read and listen to most stuff without problems"

>>20546936
like i said he doesnt count (im not knocking him, he's definitely busier than me, but still theres no way hes reading legit novels at that level)

>>20546936
dang he sounds like he just learned kana too thats legit sad dont be like this guy

>>20545425
>中出ししてくれたありがとう
>たありがとう
Someone purge this disgusting thread please

>>20546996
oreha musiro sonohouga djtni uttetuke to思う

>>20546996
shamefur dispray!

>>20545474
We're are all basicallt retarded when we're born, you spend your first decade learning to hide it. Now you're just exposed again.

>>20546996
The one that would have to do that is the one that made this early thread, so...

i didnt even read the text on the op image lmao what a disaster i cant believe he made the thread so early just so he could ensure he posted that lmfao

someone put up perfect japanese in the op, we can't let the japs know that our skills actually suck fucking ass because our nihongoの kankaku is obviously hineitibu

>>20546457
>ShutUpお願い
ｂａｓｅｄ

maybe her name is arigato and she has a big dick

42tai

don't worry, you will have a big dick when you grow up too

does djt have a discord?

should i make one

>>20547117
yes

>>20547117
no

>>20547117
make it, but dont put it in the OP

>>20547117
not interested if jamal isnt coming

>>20547133
what if we all try to act as jamal-like as possible

>>20547117
するな
酷いアイデア

>>20546936
>鳴動する
>ahhh, what’s the best way to translate this, it’s like a fearful trembling

Yes yes Japanese cultural words cannot be translated well to English, stop acting like all Japanese has some deep nuance that you have grasped and must now convey to the unenlightened. What’s worse he wasn’t even on the right track, the word rumble fits it perfectly what the fuck man.

thing is if i make one yall just gonna go in there and act weird

>>20547145
All lowercase fags do that anyways

>>20547168
nah aint none of yall can do it like me

>>20547176
Yeah it's a very difficult to type out retarded shit with no punctuation.

what are you mario

>>20547164
I dislike this as well, perhaps my greatest peeve learning Japanese.
My parents got me some coffee table book that is ridiculous with this. It says 花鳥風月 is untranslatable and is some divine concept about the origination of the soul out of nature. Shit just means nature is poetic.

>>20547164
It's good to check Chinese-English dictionaries sometimes because the chinks are ruthless at conveying accurate nuance. they don't try to dress up definitions or to make them literal

Are there any manga other than Yotsuba that have transcripts available?

>>20547167
You're talking to a bunch of otaku that like cartoons too much, after all.

u have 10 seconds to prove ur otaku

We already have a discord and it's in the op

>>20547167
no we will have civil, humane conversation about japanese

and people will learn and be more proactive

definitely not makin the discord now

>>20547233
i see links to two sites and a previous thread

previous thread has nothing, two sites dont have discord on their front page

>>20547230
I went to Christmas with relatives and they all would give me the looks that seemed to imply that I was living trash, but I read the atmosphere and did not ask them what they really thought about me.

In the newer site's "Threads" section

>>20547230
I am in taiko club and play go

>>20547230
I watch anime.

>>20547241
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhPC8W769HY

>>20547248
i said otaku not normie with a dash of weeb

>>20547230
I do this

just got my mind blown when I realized that つとに and つとめて ("morning") are related

>>20547261
does it make me more or less otaku if i watch anime series because their premise gives potential for a specific type of fetish scene to occur

>>20547189
>Shit just means nature is poetic
There are a million Japanese words that mean that, however that one specifically draws a picture of those four things in your mind which you can't do as concisely in English.

>>20547270
example?

>>20547270
maybe

>>20547274
Flower, bird, wind and... moon..?
Woah, nature

>>20547261
涙腺崩壊

>>20547276
dont say i didnt warn you tho tbf i didn't watch this shit series someone just posted the clip and i went for it
https://youtu.be/R6FwIQC2hS8

how do i delete other peoples posts

what a bad op dont change shit just because you dont like it

>>20547302
dw holmes ill do it and itll just be our little secret

can u all just delete ur posts

don't delete my posts jackasses

>>20547261
um okay I like classic japanese boxing and own a hiroshima carp's hat
also I want to follow sumo wrestling

*teleports behind you*
hehe nothing personal my ninja
*deletes your posts*

死にます

>>20547326
its really too late to give a shit about sumo its actually dead its been plagued with bs for a long time

i used to watch it when asashoryu was shittin on kids

but i digress

not otaku

>>20547326
It's heavily corrupt and ripe of bribes and throws, etc. It's well documented that people will intentionally throw matches to save friends from getting fired and stuff too. I watched it for a few years and it's aight though.

>>20547371
what is otaku then? Is it just anime and manga, cause that sucks.
There are history and train otaku, aren't they?
too bad about sumo desu

日本語、わたしの経験上だいたいちんぽとかマンコの話をするための言語な気がするが違うか
あとは生死だけどそれもせーしだし中出しだもんな

>>20547395
ur on to something there but the shit u were saying in no way indicates any otakudom on ur part

dont force yourself to produce the nihongo if youre gonna go and make basic grammar mistakes

>>20547397
そっか

>>20546464

any videos of this?

>>20547409
すみません
もっと具体的なご指摘をもらえますか

thats the most basic i can say it man sorry

>>20547397
>>20547443
日本語は私の経験から察すると、エッチなことについて話せる様になるため作った言語だと気がする。

Im a noob too but is this better?

>>20547443
す・ご・い・へ・た・く・そ

>>20547487
oh shit ために作った is probably better

>>20547487
Classic case of translating an english thought, and not even correctly.

>>20547488
I don't understand where the basic grammar mistakes are supposed to be ;_;
な気がする was bad? I can't think of anything else...

>>20547518
show me the way great leader

>>20547540
I'm not spoonfeeding you newfriend.

>>20547551
nice copout. if youre so good translating one sentence shouldn't be so hard

tfw you finally ask djt for help you get nothing

友達、do you know any YouTube channel specialized in subbing Japanese game shows? I used to be subscribed to one, but it got shut down because of copyright infringement.

I need an Anki deck for Terrace House Girls Next Door

>>20547556
I learned my lesson, it is people insecure about their own ability that makes those kinds of posts and then offers no help

>>20547564
>subbing
Take the dive. Magical zunou power will make you fluent.

unko in ur manko lol

I'm starting to get like 60 reviews per day due to all my cards going to mature pile, should I bump it up to 20 new cards a day or is this a bad idea?

u should bump it up to learning japanese and delete ur flashcards idiot

Aside from よつばと！！what are some good first reads? Asking so i can grab a bunch of shit whilst i have good internet.

>>20547568
what do you need it for, nuke learns with those stupid decks and he can't speak Japanese for shit

>>20547621
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCMx9DGl9Y0

>>20547621
chi's sweet home

>>20547621
Eromanga.

People with a mining deck : when you run into a word you've never seen, but you understand from context, do you add it to your deck, or do you figure next time you see it you'll probably have the same amount of context and be able to recognize it again?

>>20547643
I only add cards for shit I have trouble reading.

>>20547608
I do 30 per day and it's easy as shit

>>20547621
I'd recommend you d. gay man if you can find a readable scan of vol 20

Can anyone recommend me some good slice of life visual novels?

Currently in the process of drinking the slime isekai manga, although it has furigana for everything it seems to be quite hard and even has made-up words
Is this good drinking practice? Should I switch over to something easier on the stomach vocabulary-wise?

>>20547784
Read/watch whatever you want to, don't take into consideration how difficult it is, the most important thing is that you're engaged and having fun.

>>20547784
do what you think is best

>>20547793
>>20547795
he's asking because he wants to learn, not because he wants to have fun you fucking mongs

>>20547801

>>20547801
You'll learn a lot more while having fun.

>>20547784
Reading manga is shit practice in general.

「魔女の宅急便」は日本語を習う人のためにわかりやすいとされている。これ本当？

>>20547808
so if his fun was to watch peppa the pig, he should pick that up in japanese to learn it lmao

>>20547824
Why?

>>20547855
Cause it isn't reading.

>>20547872
It's listening

>>20547855
Low text density and complexity.

>目が斜視になる子どもが多い　スマホと関係があるか調べる
>何かを見るとき、右と左の目が違う方向を向いている状態を「斜視」と言います。
Fucking lmao

>>20547919
And how exactly is this a bad thing for a beginner?

obviously u want less comprehensible input so goin with the thing that has a bunch of words u dont know and no way to make them comprehensible is a great way to go

certified djt way

>>20547974
I'm surprised your vocabulary includes the word comprehensible. I don't think I've ever seen you write something with more than 8 letters.

>>20547974
1. save up to buy yourself a one way plane ticket to nihon
2. declare statelessness once in nihon
3. you will be forced to learn japanese to survive
^good way

that sounds like a plot nasu would write

>>20548010
How do the 99% of English teachers that move there and never learn Japanese fit into your little model?

>>20547987
stop stalking me anon-kun

仏頂面 makes me crosseyed

>>20547801
>doesn't know about Krashen yet

>>20548010
Except I can show you a bunch of people that lived there for 20 years and can barely speak it, and I can show you dozens of people that got fluent in their own house in their own country in a year.

If I can't study on Anki for one day will Anki skip that day or...?

u can show the former u cannot show the latter and i challenge u to do so

if you cant study for one day you're not cut out to learn jabonese sorry

Is there a point where you gain superpowers and can actually read furigami for ants or am I being trolled by Kadokawa? I didn't even pick the worst offending line.

>>20548151
Unironically I think I am quite a big piece of shit too and I feel pretty bad myself

beginner here
do you guys learn with a schedule or do you just learn when you feel like it?
i think i should make a schedule ( 3 times a week) because im a procrastinator

>>20548166
phonetic components make it so you don't need much. 左右’ｓ右 has the reading ゆう, 真 is really common with the reading ま. with that in mind the silhouette of the kana is enough

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejRkuX1RGf4
18 months (damn near perfectly fluent)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROh_-RG3OVg
if you watch these polglot conferences most of them are fluent in japanese and less than 1 year. There's people that are decent after a year but I guess you couldn't say fluent yet. 2 years seems to be the magic number. Still way better than the people that live there and can't so much as read after 20 years.

>>20548139
except show me these people you are talking about because every "fluent" self-taught person I have met can't speak a single coherent sentence to save their life. If they can it sounds fucking awful because they "learned from anime".

>>20548178
making schedules is a form of procrastination in my opinion

>>20548178
Every single day. Different activities depending on what I feel like do.

>>20548194
https://www.youtube.com/user/Dogen/videos
fluent
https://www.youtube.com/user/MATTvsJapan
fluent
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qWqIo1FR-8
fluent

All self taught. There's litteraly tons dude how new are you?

>>20548178
Every day at least anki reps which takes 20min and an hour of reading at least, sometimes more.

>>20547409
Don't tell me what I can't do.

>>20548178
At least 5 hours a day and you might be somewhat fluent in 2 years.

>>20548220
>three guys self taught
>all save perhaps the second live in japan
sure buddy

>>20548220
I don't know if Dogen really fits that bill. He did do all of his pitch accent training by himself tho.

literally tons lol

can u post 1 that isnt trying to sell u something ahahahahahahahaHAHAAHAHAhAHAHAhaha

>>20548178
You need to study every single day

>>20548178
12 hours a day while awake and then i listen to it in my sleep. just learned how to read my first hiragana word yesterday :)

>>20548178
NO BREAKS
WHATEVER IT TAKES

>>20548251
not bad senpai
i hope i can be as good as you someday

>>20548178
Have you read the guide? Set up Anki and be sure to do your reps every day. This should be your bare minimum.
Learning the first 2k Kanji takes ~100 days, so after your Anki reps I recommend studying grammar and trying some basic reading.

>>20548220
Dogen has lived in Japan for like 10 years and works for a Uni
>>20548259
One day you may

Just google polyglot + japanese, there is lots that speak fluent nihongo and polyglots all self teach. Classes are a scam.

>>20548178
I don't really learn. I just read to have fun every single day.

>>20548245

>>20547621
侵略！イカ娘

>>20548272
there's a difference between self teaching like that poster implies, where it is some neet self-studying at his computer everyday, and self-studying by having a japanese gf, a job that travels, living in japan etc. like how so many of these famous youtubers learned.

>>20548178
Study every day. Make goals at the start of a week or something if that helps.

>>20547621
You shouldn't pay much attention to difficulty and just read what you want to read. No matter how easy it is if it's boring you'll quit soon.

Though having something that's both easy and fun is a plus. So I'd recommend Kino no Tabi

>no time to be a neet
>no gf
>no job that travels
>not in japan
Imagine being a weeaboo that does any of those things haha

Did you just make a New Year's resolution to learn a new language? How productive! Let's assume you're learning Japanese. There's a LOT of misinformation and bad advice out there on the internet! Let's go down the basics.

- The Input Hypothesis

"The Input Hypothesis" is the only credible scientific theory for how people actually become adept at languages.

To paraphrase it, you get good at understanding things by putting practice into trying to understand things (i.e. input), and that you can't say/write (i.e. output) things that you wouldn't be able to understand when you saw them.

In other words, your "input" skill is always better than your "output" skill, and producing output itself (saying things) does not make you better at input (understanding things).

This does not mean that output can't make you better at output. It means that output alone will only make your output almost as good as your input. You can't say something if you don't know how it's said. If you try, you'll probably produce broken Japanese.

This doesn't mean that having conversations is a bad way to learn, just that the actual act of speaking doesn't make you better at understanding things. Instead, you get better at understanding things when you understand what the OTHER person, your conversation partner, says.

This also means that it's entirely possible to get extremely good at understanding Japanese without speaking or writing a single word of it.

The Input Hypothesis also says that studying grammar rules and vocabulary does not directly lead to being able to use those rules or words in a conversation.

The Input Hypothesis does not, however, make any predictions about how your learning ability changes based on what you've studied in a textbook, or whether the importance of speaking changes as you approach a native-like level of comprehension. It's much simpler than that.

In practice, people who approach native-like Japanese end up plateauing if they don't do enough production (speaking/writing) practice, and studying very basic grammar and vocabulary as a beginner makes it a lot easier to learn to understand things when you would otherwise understand nothing.

This means that you must always be consuming input (i.e. doing reading or listening), and that everything else you do (memorization, speaking, writing, etc) only affects how well you're learning, and the ideal amount of those things depends on your skill level.

In short:

Read and listen always. To things you can understand. Background noise that you're not paying any attention to doesn't help.

In practice, studying small amounts of grammar and vocabulary early on, outside of reading/listening practice, makes it a lot easier to begin reading/listening. But it won't make you ABLE to read/listen, it just makes it easier to BECOME ABLE TO read/listen, which you do by reading/listening.

In practice, very advanced learners reach a plateau if they do not use the language for communication. You will know when this happens to you. It will also be multiple years from now.

- Culture

Someone I know described the main way people "fuck up" learning Japanese very plainly: instead of doing the things that they would do in English, but in Japanese instead, they do random bullshit that doesn't matter.

I'm going to go one step and put it this way: If you don't do the kinds of things that you WOULD be doing if you WERE a native speaker of Japanese, you won't get good at Japanese.

If you shitpost on forums in English, then once you're able to do so in Japanese, you should do so in Japanese too.

If you would play porn games in English, you should do so in Japanese too.

If you would watch youtube in English, you should do so in Japanese too.

If you would sit around shitposting in chatrooms in English, you should do so in Japanese too.

This is important for reasons beyond getting used to grammar or vocabulary or word patterns or collocations. Language exists within a greater cultural context.

Memes are born and die in the span of months, sometimes weeks, sometimes days. Cultural references are everywhere, and you won't know them unless you use the language in enough ways.

When the time comes that you're ready to do these things in Japanese, you will know, and you should start doing them.

There are some things you just won't know unless you were born and grew up in Japan and went through its education system, but you shouldn't want to be that way either. No culture is perfect or complete, and anything you're missing out on by not growing up in Japanese culture, you're gaining a replacement for it somewhere else.

Mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell.

>>20548350

- Different sources of practice

Youtube, games, manga, web novels, light novels, "real" novels, social media, news, chatrooms, and everything else you can think of are all valid sources of Japanese reading/listening practice.

There are, however, a few things that you need to ensure that you're not lacking. Just like you need a balanced diet for your body to maintain itself.

This isn't broken down into types of grammar or words, it's broken down into "registers of speech".

This is not an exhaustive list.

* Heavily slurred speech (like fishermen or old countryside people)
* Extremely well-enunciated speech (like news show hosts or voice actors)
* Gendered speech (both genders)
* Memetastic internet cancer speech
* Vulgar/rude and gangster-like speech
* Modern colloquial speech
* However people spoke colloquially 50 years ago
* Normal dialogue
* Polite/formal/humble speech
* Narration of all kinds
* "Item name" or "news article title" syntax (where verbs and particles are heavily omitted)

If you consume too little of one of these, your brain won't develop the right compartmentalizations for it.

You will misunderstand its significance when it's used, and might use it accidentally in the wrong contexts.

Once the time is right, broaden your horizons and consume as many different kinds and sources of Japanese as possible.

- Kanji

A lot of people talk about Kanji like it's some kind of magical thing or like you absolutely must study it to learn Japanese.

While it IS important, and you DO need to be able to deal with Kanji if you want to be literate, you do NOT want to spend any significant period of time at the beginning of your studies to just Kanji.

You will ALMOST NEVER write arbitrary random kanji out by hand, even in the distant future. There is zero reason to learn to write isolated kanji as a beginner. You will know the right time to learn to write Kanji when it comes.

Kanji is just a writing system. The language itself exists in another dimension entirely. You don't want to spend a month straight studying symbols you don't know any words for, and don't hvae any real use for yet, even if you're not learning to write them.

I'm not telling you to avoid Kanji. You do, in fact, definitely need to be able to read Japanese written in Kanji. I'm telling you not to jump in head-first into something you don't understand the significance of.

How will you ever learn to read at all, then, you ask? Well, it turns out that your brain is very good at what it does, and unless you have some kind of incomprehensible brain problem, you should be able to learn to read words without learning the individual Kanji beforehand.

The Kanji will definitely look like scribbles for a while. If this doesn't go away on its own, you can study Kanji if you really want. But you should stop the moment they stop looking like scribbles and go back to reading and listening. Not because Kanji is worthless, but because you will get trapped if you spend too much time on it too early.

- Romaji

No, it's not realistic to learn Japanese without learning the hiragana and katakana. Romaji is almost exclusively used for acronyms and very specific loanwords.

- Vocabulary and Core Decks and Anki

"Core" vocabulary decks are all at least a little bad. Some of them are worse than others. I can say with great confidence that whatever word frequency tools they used to make these were really bad, or the material they used to make them was very limited in scope.

If you insist on using flashcards (like with Anki), you should stop using "Core" decks as soon as possible and switch to "mining" - that is, making your own flashcards from words you find while using Japanese normally.

The only exception to this is studying material from JLPT prep books if you want to take the JLPT. It's basically cheating, but studying JLPT prep books does indeed make it easier to pass the JLPT because some of the stuff the JLPT covers is only used in certain contexts that you're unlikely to experience if you don't live in Japan.

- Ankidroning

"Ankidroning" refers to people who don't actually use Japanese and spend all of their time studying only doing memorization like using Anki. The same concept applies to other memorization tools too, like Wanikani. Don't do this. Memorization is not Japanese, it's preparation to actually learn Japanese.

Don't be that guy who makes Anki decks for 10 years and still can't read ordinary Japanese.

- Gamified subscription services

This includes things like Wanikani. Don't use them. They're designed to be slow (so they can take more of your money) and prevent you from progressing if you take breaks.

- Free gamified services

This includes things like Duolingo. Don't use them. The quality and scope of their material is very poor. You would actually, really, unironically learn more Japanese just by watching Japanese youtube with hardsubs and looking stuff you don't know up in Google.

>>20548272
Classes are a scam for non-languages too. The mentality of "just go out there, use it, fail, improve and above all have fun" worked wonders for my math as well.

>>20548306
Except I see tons of foreigners in japan who lived there for decades and can't speak it. I lived there for 5 years and didn't learn anything except the basics. Then there's ajatt people, polyglots, etc. who do it in a couple of years. If anything spending time there slows you down. You don't learn through osmosis.

>>20547113
https://itazuraneko.neocities.org/threads.html

>>20548350
>>20548354
let me be the first to say did not fucken read lol

>>20548357
hey nigger how about you learn japanese while you are in japan.
it isn't a choose one or the other scenario. People learn faster when they are living in an immersive environment. Most people who work in Japan and don't learn japanese aren't trying to learn japanese and just stick with english because their job requires it an they live in tokyo where you can get by with minimal japanese.

in a lot of ways living in japan youre just as far from learning japanese as living anywhere else

but if your goal is just to learn japanese and not something else where japanese can be the byproduct of said other thing youre gonna struggle even more cuz u aint gonna get good socialization

How long do people actually spend on Anki everyday? I've just restarted learning, but I remember in my previous attempt I got to about 1300 words and it would take 50-60 mins every Anki session, which eventually made me quit.

>>20548357
>I lived there for 5 years and didn't learn anything except the basics.
You're a fucking loser lol

any more than 10 mins and ur a flashtard guaranteed

that includes time spent making cards and other flashcard related shit

>>20548408
0 seconds in total.

>>20548408
10-15 minutes learning new words, 10 or so minutes on reviews

>>20548371
Based.

its funny because jamal agrees with everything that massive wall of text said

>>20548431
>10 or so minutes on reviews
How do you even click through that fast?

so what if i agree still not fucken reading it

no no i was just saying thats why the response was funny like the punchline to a joke

How do you guys deal with the pain when you make a mistake writing something? It's been like 3 days and I'm still not over it.

>>20548468
I either know it or I don't. Couldn't care less about my retention rate so I don't struggle for 20 seconds to remember a word just to keep from hitting again like some retards do.
>>20548483
I pile drive jamals wife in the ass

>>20548350
>>20548354
This is all pretty accurate except I would simplify it and say:
1. Have fun, if you don't enjoy it your subconscious wont want to remember it
2. High frequency and time spent with the language
3. It must be comprehensible
4. There is no absolute method except these three rules that are universal for everybody

>>20548408
20minutes, back when I started it took longer but now that I'm at ~1000 words I keep encountering more and more words I've learned from reading so it's pretty fast to review them.

get over it and do something else

i know u got em so get em out and lets see em

ps feel free to repost that wall of text on reddit and take the credit (i just want to see how they react)

i wanna do sexual things to misa

>>20548510
I thought the text was from reddit. Did you write it?

>>20548522
why

How hard is nekopara for someone who just read Tae Kim and has been anki droning for a while

>>20548536
lmao literally read anything that isnt nekopara pLEAse

>>20548528
why would it be from reddit tho

>>20548408
Anki says an hour, but I do my reps while watching Japanese TV or listening to radio programs, so it's slower but less painful.

>>20548417
Ok kid, go there and watch how much you learn living there. You'll quickly find out how retarded you are.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOOMOVnsMk8

i mean going to japan and going ok japanese flow into me now plz isnt an effective strategy to learning a language

>>20548545
People copy paste shit from there all the time

>>20548575
You just showed that you are in fact a retard. Nowhere did I say immersion guarantees learning. You're a loser because you lived in a country and didn't put any effort into learning the language for 5 years.

>>20548600
I aws busy having fun faggot. There were hundreds of foreigners there who didn't learn shit either and there are people who live there for decades and don't learn it. I learned more in 6 months of self study back in teh US than I did in those 5 years. Why would I go to japan and study the whole time you retard.

>>20548616
>people who live there for decades and don't learn it.
They're called losers, like you.
>Why would I go to japan and study the whole time you retard
It's kinda hilarious how you're incapable of making a post without a strawman.

>preschool ad hominem
>brings up strawman
lol you're so stupid I can tell you'll never learn japanese or go to japan

>>20548544
Why tho

>>20548654
shit is tRASH

>tfw my anki reps take an hour a day, feel so brainlet at times
>but tfw I can remember certain words
I just finished day 12.

is it better to try to understand as much as possible when reading or to read as quickly as i can even if i dont fully understand everything in order to consume more.

i dont like the wording of "try to understand"

you shouldnt try to shit you should just shit

but its fine to read a line or a paragraph a few times and think about it but not "try to understand"

>>20548702
>but its fine to read a line or a paragraph a few times and think about it
What do you think try to understand implies if not this?

>>20548697
Totally up to you. I skim each paragraph, then go back and read it looking up anything I didn't figure out. Then after a few paragraphs I go back and reread it. The next day I reread it again and that's when I start to truly understand it. I mix it up a bit. Sometimes if its boring I skim more but if I really want to know everything I in there hard.

Ok jamal I take it back after reading this >>20548740

>>20548739
idk some ppl force some kinda bs understanding thats completely wrong and start reinventing japanese

do you senpaitachi reread? generally, i reread what i've read during the day before bed and then again the next day before i being studying new material. i also do this a week and a month later for a sort of spaced repetition reading effect.

>A study from Barcelona looking at Spanish speakers trying to learn English found that the worst way to learn was by putting Spanish subtitles on an English movie. This resulted in a 0% improvement in their English ability. Watching with no subtitles provided a 7% improvement, and watching in English with English subtitles provided a 17% improvement.

So watching anime with Japanese subs is the best way to learn?

>>20548792
jamal on suicide watch

>>20548791
no but sometimes i watch/read other versions or adaptations of stuff i've already seen, i watched both of the devilman OVAs yesterday raw and today i started reading the manga

i dont think thats really applicable here but lets say it is i never said 10000 hours of eng subbed anime was the best way to start learning japanese

just that itll work

>>20548792
JDrama or Tv shows. anime characters' lines don't consist of a normal way of speech

>>20548804
>itll work
>This resulted in a 0% improvement in their English ability.
Why is it not applicable? Kanji is irrelevant in this case so in what way is Japanese differentiated from Spanish in this context? If anything, I'd say it should be easier to acquire English this way than it would be Japanese.

>>20548818
actually true i learned a fuckload of english as an esl just watching anime with english subs, i still did learn a lot of stuff in japanese and i rarely needed to look up grammar because of that so 10000 hours of anime is no meme

>>20548697
It's best to understand as much as possible as quickly as possible. 2x2 is more than 1x3 or 0x4. Find your 2x2.

Kaufmann and his son re-read things up to 50 times with the audio book going. That's how you truly understand it.

>>20548833
I'm not convinced either way but your single anecdotal experience definitely isn't gonna push me over the edge

instead a study of two languages that arent japanese is what youre gonna hold to ur chest

gl bruv

>>20548872
I watch a lot of anime regardless so if there are benefits to be had I'll get them. Nice one ignoring my question though lel

not interested do it or dont idgaf all the best : )

>>20548868
why is that? did you never learn a few words while watching anime with english subtitles before starting to do this? this should be axiomatic to anyone who has watched a fair amount of subbed anime i think. i'm not saying it's ideal or even a good idea to watch anime with english subtitles to learn japanese just that you can learn some from it

lmao finally good night

>>20548901
Just use mnemonics lol

>>20548896
nah u dont do it to learn japanese u do it to start to learn japanese

basically 10000 hours of eng subbed anime puts u in position to succeed

>>20548895
Can't say I'm surprised, you never do back up anything you say. Hard to believe you don't give a fuck when you repeat your little mantra dozens of times per day, every day.
>>20548896
Big difference between picking up a few words versus achieving significant competency in the language. I doubt the latter, not the former.

is anyone gonna repost that massive wall of text onto reddit i really wanna see how it's received

>>20548913
i dont need to back it up

the ppl that have watched extensive eng subbed anime know how valuable its been and continues to be as they learn more japanese beyond anime

>>20548901
I just finished kana at 3750 / 3782
Now time to try the alt fonts for 1 or 2K...

>>20548935
seriously what the fuck do you think you are doing, these nyr fags i swear

imagine literally going yosh this is the year i finally learn nihongo lmao

I achieved last years NYR of losing 40 kg so there's no doubt I'll attain N2 in 362 days.

>>20548792
Spanish ESLs have probably watched a lot of English movies with Spanish subs already and this is just forcing them to take off the training wheels, which should be taken off as soon as possible.

>>20548920
post it on reddit, I'm curious

>>20548965
dont have an account

>>20548939
I like to make sure I'm 100% confident and can answer instinctively before I move on.
I have unfortunately done more autistic things in the past than droning through kana with music.

>>20548974
I don't think you need an email to register iirc.

>>20548980
they probably block posts from new accounts

>>20548901
based

i don't wanna post it cause you'll know my reddit account

>>20548993
>having a reddit acount

>>20548896
You cannot learn anything from watching anime because the translation's are shit and not accurate. They just write down some simplified summary or a complete different alternative of what was actually said or worse they could be completely wrong. You will understand this more once you get better at Japanese.

surely someone here has a throwaway

there are a bunch of niche hobbies that only have active communities on reddit, sue me

>>20549007
i've been learning for quite a while now, how much more do i need to learn until i understand that it is literally impossible to learn 花火 from watching characters starting at it and constantly see "fireworks" on the subtitles whenever that word is mentioned?

>>20548909
>mnemonics
Brainlet detected

>>20549028
he says as his anki reviews takes him twice as long

>>20549030
you don't need mnemonics for kana unless you're below 100 iq

>>20549039
below 60 iq*

>>20549016
Seriously you need to at least study 3-5 years full time depending on the person after that watch anime without subs this makes your brain work at trying to immerse and understand what is being said instead of relying on brain dead subs. I have studied Japanese now for 3 years 2 years full and 1 year a bit less to make it worse I haven't studied for the last 4 month's. However I'm gonna start learning from now on full time for 3 years and after that will reduce the hours and instead watch anime and play video games more and other things good for immersion. By the way I can watch anime without subs and understand mostly all of it though but sometimes I understand half of it. I still have to study much harder.

わたしはゲイ

>>20549039
who said anything about need lol. if you want to take longer learning things because you think it's higher iq or something be my guest.

>>20549063
nobody is saying you shouldn't immerse or that watching subbed anime is more efficient, but you saying you can't learn simple names of objects in japanese from watching subs is simply wrong, i have and i'm sure many people have. would we be better off just watching anime without subtitles or with japanese subtitles instead in that time? yeah we would but that's besides the point.

>>20549071
it took me 3 hours to learn both hiragana and katakana with djt kana

>>20549064
Yes we already know that.

>>20549080
I'm just saying that it's much better once you have grasped a decent understanding of Japanese to watch Anime without subs because it's much better immersion wise.

you haven't learned kana until you can fluently read it in context without having to piece together the symbols in your head

>>20549105
u can literally just not read the subs instead if u dont want to

or is self control really this impossible for u zoomers this is rhetorical dont @ me

>>20549081
I was like you too but you are probably gonna struggle for a few month's just reading hiragana text.

>>20549113
No you have to force your brain to understand better that's all. Don't rely on shitty subs too much.

>>20549118
It was 6 months ago, I did struggle a little, mostly on katakana, but nothing major

>>20549064
> ゲイ

Thanks anon, I learned a new word today.

~ aint gotta force sHIt ~

>>20549126
Don't forget to start learning kanji immediately. Kanji required lots of study and time to master starting too late is a death sentence for your Japanese.

if u listen to posters like the 1 above me u will never learn japanese and when u die someday ill be there to laugh at u for having died never learning japanese

im gay for yuzuki yukari

>>20549145
Hehe transparent brainlet detected.

>>20549145
Bitch it's indisputable that you're gonna die before anyone else in this thread

>>20549145
No wonder this thread is full of dekinai's. It's people like you.

>>20549161
nah some of u fucks are gonna have heart attacks at 30 or have ur undected colon cancer spread and kill u cuz thats on the rise to in u young ppl

>>20549170
You're still more likely to have either of those things and you know it old man

im still lolling at how bad that post came out good lord

undected lmao

>>20549039
Seriously the thought of having to use mnemonics for kana is pretty scary. I'm quite dumb myself and learned hiragana and katakana in few days.

terrace house is actually good

cant be its normie trash

>>20549231
I watched every episode at least once. Fun show. Japanese people can be intense. When everything is so subtle it's crazy. Like the girl crying because the dude was looking at sun glasses he couldn't afford lol.

What's the purpose of the string that comes out of the waistband of pajamas. This has bothered me for years. I googled it but there's no answers, apparently everyone else understand the purpose of this stupid fucking string or has never bothered to question it??

>>20549265
pull on it ya dink

>>20549265
you tie it so your pantsu dont fall down

>>20549212
Watch this if you haven’t already. It’s not as bad as it sounds.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=U6PoUg7jXsA

The example he gives about “Bakers and bakers” is especially relevant. The goal is to give the Kanji some sort of associational hook that’s easier to recall than a generic definition.

>ted talk

get that ass back to r3ddit

>>20549279
he clearly said kana you dense fucko

Have you guy's give up on Japanese study yet?

>>20549287
No, I think I can't learn Japanese but I won't stop trying.

>>20549297
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MYYYYYYY POOOOOOOOOOOOOOWEEEEEEEEERSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

General question to those who are fluent: How far into your studies did you guys realize you were becoming proficient and started to process sentences autonomously?

>>20549313
When I decided to watch cure dolly

>>20549313
idk even the ecelebs say they still have to process things so maybe in like 10 years it gets automatic.. Some things feel automatic to me like the easy greetings and what not.

>>20549313
>those who are fluent
lol

im fluent ask me anything

can sorta confirm

never studied

prolly not until around 5 years of casually being with and around japanese

>>20549313
Fluent isn't enough boiii. atleast study 10 years or more to get close to Native lvl.

>>20549333
ok
does your mom know your gay? rofl

ママはおばけになっちゃった : (

at this point im hoping to get put into a coma just so i can wake up and be fluent in japanese like those people you hear about in the news

>>20549352
それは本当に残念です。

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IOZbJ7PCPk
Don't worry, Chris-sensei says you can be fluent in 6 months.

>>20549353
OMEGALUL is this how normies think?

>>20549370
go back to twitch chat you fucking cancer

>>20549369
This guy is a faggot. Ordering food at a restaurant doesn't mean you are fluent is Japanese.

poggers lmao

>>20549369
Hasn't he been there for about 7 years? I'm probably better than him in a few areas, he practices writing and I'm shit at that though

>>20549373
No you must go back.

yall gots to go imo

>>20549388
what game is that? It's about my level

>>20549401
Boku no Pico.

is listening to japanese audio with minor / no comprehension a meme or is it legit

>>20549404
thnx

>>20549401
No idea I got it from this ero artist off twatter.
https://twitter.com/magaeshikun

>>20549405
It's a must desu. I got expensive headset and amps and shit and when I take em off and here audio through soundbars and shit I can't understand nearly as much. Good audio is realy underrated for listening practice.

>>20549405
who fucking knows what's legit at this point, just do what you want and see what happens lol

>>20549405
its basically the most retarded thing u can do besides be itt

>>20549401
Looks like Dragon Quest Builders

lads i never know if で is just "and" or "with/by means of" or what

>>20549401
dq builders 2

>>20549405
It's fucking retarded. At least be at a intermediate level of Japanese first.

>>20549405
https://youtube.com/watch?v=J_EQDtpYSNM

Skip to 1:35 for your answer. Audio alone is worthless, but with visual context you could learn something.

How far should I be in Tae Kim before attempting Flyable Heart? I just made it to the Essential Grammar section.

>>20549436
you're too far i'd go back a bit

>>20549430
It has no meaning it's a particle. Look's like you don't even know basic grammar.

>>20549435
by this logic text alone is worthless but with visual context u could learn something

thus webm related

>>20549430
it can be either, depends on the sentence

>>20549440
when it indicates a location it's usually kinda obvious but when it means the two things i listed i'm never quite sure which it is.

>>20549436
fucking newfags in my thread, don't read shit kim, go watch cure dolly

More nihongo = get better
Whatever gets you more exposure = better
This trick and that trick only change this factor by like 5% tops

if you think these threads have sucked more than usual recently its probably due to my increased posting over the holidays

>>20549439
>>20549453
Can I get a non-meme answer please? I actually want to learn japanese instead of just choking my meat tube to e-celebs all day.

>>20549447
で particle is used when indicating doing a action a verb so to speak at a location. But when it comes to existence and being at a location you use に　instead.

>>20549447
the で for location is used to mark just a location, the で that means "and" that you're talking about is just the copula だ and marks a whole sentence or idea, like in "I brushed my teeth and dressed my clothes"

>>20549464
dream lover until then i'll go to sleep and dream again

>>20549464
Don't read the english parts in taekim, yw in advance

>>20549467
i know that technically but the distinction seems pointless for me to bother caring about at my level.

>>20549469
if you're saying it's the て form of だ then that's interesting but i don't see how it helps me

>>20549472
You should care this is basically the first thing you learn in grammar.

>>20549486
yea but i don't think it matters right now. maybe it will in a couple months but even then i bet not

>>20549477
you just have to look at what で is marking, if it's a location it's destination で, if it's between two different ideas then it's て form of だ

そうかもしれない

>>20549492
You will be those people 5 years later still making shitty grammar mistakes lol.

>>20549492
what the fuck are you talking about, knowing the difference between に and で is the most important thing after knowing that every phrase has が in it

>>20549500
nah it's no big deal

>>20549502
i've never confused them but maybe in a few months i'll see what i was missing

>>20549500
you mean the people that didn't read?

>>20549506
You have literally no idea what Japanese grammar is like.

all wrong the most important thing is

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87qdxfJIz4E

one step forward and two steps back, nobody gets too far like that