/jp/ - Otaku Culture

SHIROU DON'T GO
YOU STILL HAVE TO FULFILL YOUR FATHER'S IDEAL

I thought it was pretty deep myself.

No, really.

Shirou was A TRUE BRO ;_;

>>2009177
...........
...................__
............./´￣/'...'/´￣￣`・，
........../'/.../..../......./¨￣\
........('(...´...´.... ￣~/'...')
.........\.................'...../
..........''...\.......... _.・´
............\..............(
BRO FIST FOR A TRUE BRO

Kara no Kyoukai is now my favourite anime. Oh god, I really loved Spiral Paradox.

Tomoe and Mikiya brofist scene was unexpected but awesome.

Tomoe's circumstances and end were predictable, but sad, considering he didn't get to do much for Shiki.

The movie could've been better. The fact that Alba didn't do anything was bad, too.

WHY IS THE SIXTH DVD SO FUCKING NOT ANNOUNCED?

Touko <3

>>2009200
I agree with you on all counts, but I still loved this animu.

If only ufotable made the Tsukihime or F/sn animes...

>>2009156
If shirou was really like tomoe, I think Fate/Stay night would be miles better.

...........
...................__
............./´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸
........../'/.../..../......./¨¯\
........('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...')
.........\.................'...../
..........''...\.......... _.·´
............\..............( He died like a man, fighting against impossible odds with BURNING LOVE FOR HIS FAMILY.

...........
...................__
............./´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸
........../'/.../..../......./¨¯\
........('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...')
.........\.................'...../
..........''...\.......... _.·´
............\..............( He died like a man, fighting against impossible odds with BURNING LOVE FOR HIS FAMILY.

>>2009228

Word to your mother, man. Word.

Has a US license been announced? I would gladly pay for these dvds.

>>2009217
Now you've gone too far.

I liked Shirou, but I couldn't STAND tomoe. I hated him.

>>2009217
Shirou shoving his thumb through Shinji's eye and bashing his head against the wall would have been impossibly cooler than just breaking his arm.

>>2009235

I bet you hate your family, too.

They probably don't like you, either.

>>2009238
I thought that scene was a little over the top. I mean, was it really necessary or even believable for him to pop the guys eye out?

>>2009241
Nah, I'm a huge family man. It's just tomoe was too much of a whiny insane cunt for me to like him. I know his circumstance was fucked up, but still, Shirou > Him in everything.

>>2009248

Yes

>>2009249
Watching yourself get stabbed to death by your mom over and over again and people not dying when they are killed would kinda do that to you.

>>2009249

Your family still doesn't like you

>>2009248

I think it was to show that this character was capable of murder and that he had a brutal side in order to convince you of the earlier events you saw him in.

What the fuck is this? Are these threads type-moon related? I never bothered reading them, I thought it was just some random anime.

>>2009261
It didn't work, considering the whole time I was expecting Tomoe to trace Kanshou/Bakuya and charge Araya.

>>2009271

Yeah, that's just you.

>>2009272
Kara No Kyokai.

>>2009272
Shiki cuts the barrier between /a/ and /jp/.

>>2009271

>>2009275
Come on. It's Proto-Shirou and George Nakata.

I guess it's closer to >>2009281

>>2009278
Oh they made an anime based on that book?

Isn't it non-canon?

>>2009287
I think Enjoy Tomoe and Emiya Shirou are WAY to different to be compared.

Tomoe actually reminds me more of Shinji with just a /dash/ of Shirou, excluding appearances.

>>2009289
Kara no Kyoukai is canon. It was made before Tsukihime/Fate, after all.

>>2009287

Fine, fine. Yes it's very similar. Maybe it was just me that wasn't thinking about it then.

Worth watching for the scene after the credits alone.

>>2009294
>>2009298
He's not Shirou, to be sure. Just Proto-Shirou. All the basic hallmarks of Shirou's psychology aside from THERE WAS A FIRE A LONG TIME AGO.

Also:

Who's the best incarnation of George Nakata? I've always thought it was Kotomine. Araya never seemed interesting enough and Nero gets his too soon.

>>2009308

Definitely Kotomine

>>2009308
>Araya never seemed interesting enough and Nero gets his too soon.
Kotomine, for me. I think the same way about Araya. While a good character on his own (flaws lol), Kotomine just seems a lot more interesting.

>>2009308
Kotomine's doomed fist fight takes the cake.

>>2009308
giroro

>All the basic hallmarks of Shirou's psychology aside from THERE WAS A FIRE A LONG TIME AGO.

Really? I thought Shirou was supposed to be a 'blank slate' or whatever with only the philosophy that all people should be saved. Tomoe didn't seem like that kind of guy at all. A lot more selfish, aside from the love thing.

Didn't this come out like a year ago? Why is everyone talking about it now?

Also, is that Shirou in OP pic?

>>2009340

>>2009325
Type-Moon related. I would say the Count, otherwise.

>>2009341
Shirou disregarded most emotions and focused on the ideal of saving people, after the disaster.
Both for his own sake and admiring it and to inherit his savior's dream. He is distorted in the sense that while he is conscious and values life, he disregards himself.

Tomoe on the other hand, is scarred by his disaster and still copes with it. He is not as 'blank' as Shirou.
He came to like Shiki and would do anything for her.
And in the end, regardless if he was fake or not, because he valued his existence and memories, did what he did.

tl.dr; The trauma and their reactions to it are much different, Tomoe's somewhat more normal.

>>2009308
>>2009322
wait for the 7th movie for more Araya.

Why is it that Type-moon heroines are always superior to the male heroines?

Why is it Type-moon heroines are always superior to the male heroes? Ryougi>Tohno Shiki, Saber>Pretty much everyone in fate, Arcuied>Everyone in Tsukihime.

>>2009397
I dunno. Shiki isn't inferior to heroines, though. In fact, he kills most of them at any given time.

The only one you don't get a chance to kill is Hisui.

>>2009374
>Tomoe's somewhat more normal.
Probably what makes me like Shirou more, then...? I was apathetic towards Tomoe. I was kind of rolling my eyes at the part where he leaves, too. Oh well...

>>2009408
I think it was about 'Character wise', not 'battle wise'

>>2009408
Thats only under certain conditions, Shiki couldn't kill Arcuied even with the boost that comes with being infected by Roa

>>2009406
Because girls are sexy.

>>2009414
Lol no, it was battle wise, Saber superior as a character? I don't think so. I posted that btw.

>>2009201

Because it was only in theaters what, a month ago? Figure at least six months from theatrical run to DVD release.

>>2009406
What? Archer, Gilgamesh, Lancer, Nero, Roa, Kouma, Araya, Kotomine aren't good enough for you?

>>2009414
The measure of a male hero's superiority to the female heroines is the extent to which he can kill or rape them, or some combination of the two.

>>2009374
If Tomoe's hair was a different colour, people would stop making the stupid Tomoe=Shirou comment.

>>2009427
Im just pointing out that most of the hax characters are female, you know? Besides all those you mentioned are inferior to Saber (Not too sure about Kouma since there's not much about him.)

>>2009406
It's the same with a lot of anime. It's always about the japanese feeling useless/boring and wanting some impossibly beautiful/strong/dependable person coming to save their ass from everyday life.

>>2009435
This!! For fucks sake...

>>2009438

You're just begging for someone to post that chart. Aren't you?

>>2009435
Something like "People who wear glasses, have black hair and are kind are Shiki".

>>2009446
No idea what you are talking about.

>>2009438
There are just as many hax males as females.

Plus, Saber gets beaten around far too much (she loses her first goddamn match in the VN).
Shirou and Shiki, despite awesome abilities are far weaker then most of the cast, so a more powerful heroine doesn't say much.

>>2009446
No stop, ignore the troll. Let's just keep talking about KnK please.

>>2009458
If you think about it, Saber only lost because of certain occasions, she couldn't have predicted Gae Bolg (hell its surprising she even survived it but she had "LUCK") and then lost to berserker because she was already wounded and Shirou provided no backup or mana.

>>2009156

Three times? Holy shit, I didn't even get watery eyes.

>>2009465
Yes, anyone with a valid point is a troll.

>>2009475
Regardless of knowing about it or not, she lost the first match for most intent and purposes.
And the fact that Servants are dependent on mana makes them more fickle than people like to think.

>>2009475
>If you think about it, Saber only lost because of certain occasions
And all the others didn't?

>>2009499
The fact that she survived, against an attack which is supposed to be instant kill, goes to show just how hax she really is.

>>2009524
And female don't?

>>2009519
The others did, but look what happens to most of the male characters when they lose. Hint: They die.

>>2009491
Reported for trolling and offtopic discussion.

>>2009519
Well, Berserker was simply Overpowered by Gilgamesh.
Rider was overpowered by Saber, in the battle of NPs.
Lancer went all-out before Saber did.
There are situations where there are no team-ups, Noble Phantasms the character was not supposed to have, abilities that are effective especially against opponent etc.
Simple power vs power.
They are fewer though.

>>2009520
So did Shirou (concerning instant death at least).

>>2009533
Saber didn't die even after being completely destroyed, Rin didn't die even after having took a huge blow by Kotomine, but still Gilgamesh gets fucking eaten by Sakura.

Hey guys, remember when this thread was good?

>>2009549
Nothing escapes the erotical black hole.

>>2009549
...What Saber moment are you even talking about?

Someone has to keep underage out of KnK discussions for a few days.

>>2009558
The beginning, where Berserker knocks her around the place.

What was so special about this thread anyway? OH LOL TOMOE LOOKS LIKE SHIROU.

>>2009571
Well, either Shirou takes the blow or she moves the fight to the Graveyard and avoids hits.
Why should she die.
Also, if Kotomine really wanted to Kill Rin, he would (remember him about to pluck the heart out in a different case). He just punced her and took Ilya.

And not only Gil, the only one who was not immediately swallowed by the Shadow is Archer, so stupid point.

>>2009578
We were trying to discuss the movie and then you faggots showed up with your shitty trolls.

Okay then lets make it relevant to the topic, Cornelius, despite being supposedly stronger than Touko is still killed by her.

So why again Touko's hair are red in the movies?

>>2009551
Yes, when it was about KnK

>>2009587
Battle Moon Wars is RUINED!!!

>>2009586
Greater magical potential, power or whatever does not mean everything, except in the world of POWERLEVELS.

Greater power would mean greater advantage if he thought a bit more and was not completely off his rocker.

>>2009584
We are just talking battle wise here, remember? Berserker would have killed her if Shirou didn't do anything, but we can't have a female heroine die, can we?

Less powerlevels, more paradox spiral. Ignore the trolls. That is all.

>>2009587

Because she looked bad with blue hair.

>>2009597
This is exactly my point, he was a fucking retarded male character, they had to give him some handicap because there can't be a stronger male magus, right?

>>2009601
That was an official announcement? The novels never talk about her hair colour so it's not that strange but still I can't imagine that noone ever asked them that.

>>2009598
So take away an important plot point that also indicates Shirou's character and allows us to continue the story so that the heroine would die?
Your logic is retarded.

Unless you wanted the story to end in the second bad end, where you run off and Saber gets killed, followed by Rin.

Fate/Stay Night, the 45 minute+Prologue visual novel.

How exactly Tomoe "helped" Shiki get out of the barrier? Cause of the sword?

>>2009620
No, of course I understand that shes important to the plot, but the fact shes so important and powerful to the damn plot just supports my point.

>>2009607
So, in other words, you want in your fictional stories the BOYS ALWAYS BEAT GIRLS part despite everything else the plots and characters and the events stand for?

>>2009633
I never said that you dumb faggot, all I said was Type-moon heroines are always superior, I said nothing else about GUYS BEATING GIRLS. I just pointed out a trend.

>>2009626
I'm pretty sure he didn't help her at all. He just got himself killed pointlessly.

IN THE END
IT DOESN'T EVEN MATTER

>>2009631
But Archer survives the first fight against Lancer, so men are equally coddled!

...I really don't see how you plan on proving anything, here.

>>2009631
Dude, she is made the PARTNER of the main character.
The first scenario was made to focus on her.
And despite all this, she is overpowered SO MANY times, despite her acclaimed strength.

Your point is fucking retarded.
With your logic, Shirou should have died when hit by Lancer, and have the story end there.

>>2009637

You really want that chart posted. I know it.

>>2009637
Simply enough, they are not.
Only Arc in tsukihime is really a 'superior' being yet for the greatest part, she is pushed around.
You are just retarded.

>>2009641
Lancer didnt use Gae Bolg on archer, and if he did, he would have been dead (look at Archer's Luck).

That movie was awesome.

>>2009649
Lancer would have used it if Shirou, didn't interrupt, but we can't have a male hero die, can we?

>>2009653
Yeah he would have died, that's my point moron, but Saber didn't die and he executed it perfectly.

>>2009642
Exactly, Shirou is a weak fuck and should have died but is saved by Saber, who is hax. It does support my point you moron, type-moon heroes are always weaker.

>>2009650
I thought Araya was catching her to be sentimental...

Then suddenly decapitation a la Kishima Kouma style.

That was quite delicious.

>>2009650

Wait. So who was the puppet?

>>2009660
I thought the same at first. Also Ode to Joy.

>>2009665
But he didn't die, that's my point moron, but Saber would have died if he followed it up.

>>2009671
The first one...I think.

Didn't it show NotShiki on the ground with blood on the wall in front of Willy Wonka when fake red haired girl first walked in? What's up with that?

>>2009665
Concerning Shirou survived it long enough to be treated, Saber getting a bad wound that handicapps her for most of the story seems a fair trade.

>>2009658
So, the fact that Saber was saved from Berserker due to Shirou makes her hax.
Her summoning and fight with Lancer, which she survives due to Lancer being ordered to retreat , thus Shirou survives too, makes her hax.
...

You know what buddy, you are beyond me.

>>2009694
Of course he didn't die, he was relevant to the plot. He would have though, and that's much more different than surviving.

Rin > Saber

Far Side > Near Side

>>2009701
I need to rewatch it and keep notes this time.
By the way, how much time Tomoe spend with Shiki? 1 month?

>>2009716
Judging from the ice-cream cups, about that, yes.

>>2009706
K lets look at my point again. Type-moon usually favors female heroines. We got this down right? Now I can understand what your saying, but the fact she had to be saved by plot armor does not mean she was weaker than those servants. She is still much stronger than the other servants.

>>2009735
I meant flashforward, I'm stupid.

>>2009701
Yes. That was a little flashback, but you only realize it when you see the second Touko.

>>2009713
Saber was, for all intents and purposes, killed by Lancer. The only reason she survives is because she was relevant to the plot, that's "much more different" than surviving due to power inherent in being a heroine rather than a hero.

Touko actually done something. Wow.

What's up guys?

>>2009706
Also, Shirou only survived because Lancer was playing with him, one Gae bolg and he would have been finished, not the same case as being Gae Bolg'd and still surviving.

>>2009724
No, what we have down is that you feel that female heroines are usually favoured by Type-Moon, and that's fine. We don't mind, just make sure you back it up if you want to convince anyone else.

>>2009724
She does not survive due to 'plot-armor'.
She is of the strongest Servants but then you have Gil and Berserker.
Plus, in TM, abilities are what matter the most and almost everyone has very strong ones that can change the course of battle or suit certain opponent best.

TM favors males as much as females, concerning prowess and plot importance.
You are just a biased faggot.

>>2009740

It was kind of lame, though. Cornelius just stood there and let himself get eaten by Touko's box monster.

This show is so amazing and deep

Everything type-moon makes is made of win and epic

>>2009740

>>2009736
She was not killed because she has the relevant "stats" to prevent Gae Bolg from killing her, hell it says in the damn description somewhere that you need a certain amount of luck to survive it. Anyway the fact is the luck thing is probably just something type-moon came up with just so Saber could have an excuse for dodging Gae Bolg, but she is still very much a hax character.

I liked the "greeting" look Shiki did.

>>2009751
>She is of the strongest Servants but then you have Gil and Berserker.
whom she is both stronger than, thanks for trying fag.

>>2009761
...Just go read the fucking Status page.

>>2009754
Judging by Araya comments after that, I think her pet was too strong. Does the novel has more info about her "pets"? Also I'm interested into Araya "powers". I don't get what the circles where.

>>2009772
Saber can only defeat Gilgamesh if he's not actually trying or if she has Avalon.

Otherwise, he would rape her if he was serious.

>>2009781

The circles were "barriers"

That's all I know.

>>2009740

I don't get this part. If she has clones of herself that "activates" when one of them dies, how does she transfer the experience, knowledge, etc. to the other clone?

>>2009787
Oh so Saber is only stronger than Gilgamesh if she has the all important sheath to her sword? Thanks for pointing out the obvious, I wonder what would happen if Gilgamesh didn't have Ea

>>2009787

Say Saber has Avalon...

What if Gilgamesh uses Ea?

Araya was trying to enter Akasha right? I dont understand where Shiki would help him. He wanted her eyes to find the gate?

>>2009792
The all important sheath to her sword THAT SHE DOES NOT HAVE AND IS SUMMONED WITHOUT?

>>2009781
Extremely powerful Barrier Fields.
While usually you deploy them in a certain place, he can carry them around, which is 'absurd'.

>>2009794

magic

>>2009744
Faker.

>>2009792
The point is that she only has Avalon in one path. Otherwise, she doesn't have it. Ergo, Gilgamesh would utterly rape her in UBW and Fate if he was serious.

But Gigglemesh's biggest flaw is his ego, so she could probably still win.

>>2009795
In this topic, fucking idiots that have not even read the fucking VN and actually try to make points.

>>2009800
Plot is Irrelevant, we are talking battle wise remember?

>>2009649

In the VN, Archer blocks it.

This must be like the best movie I've watched my entire life.

It's fucking EPIC.

>>2009805
And by Fate, I mean HF. And by post, I mean cocks.

>>2009798

Opening an origin can make you vanish or blow up the world or something... Shiki's eyes are already an opening to an origin so he could trace them back to the beginning or some shit.

Full-strength servants, in serious mode, fightan ranking, approximate:

1. Gilgamesh
2. Berserker
3. Saber
4. Lancer
5. Archer
6. Fake Assassin
7. Rider
8. True Assassin
9. Caster

Women: 3, 7, 9.
Men: 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 8

Paradox Spiral is after the previous movies, so SHIKI should be dead right? But Shiki acts a lot like SHIKI during her flashbacks while she returns from Akasha. Is SHIKI back or what?

>>2009811
I can't tell if you're trolling or not, but it is mine as well.

>>2009808
If we're talking powerlevels, Avalon is irrelevant because the heroic spirit Arthuria does not come with it.

Saber just needs to get her worthless ass back to Gilgamesh's kitchen.

>>2009814

Who made this ranking? Is it based on the chart?

>>2009809
This doesnt matter, its two heroes fighting, two weaklings compared to Saber.

>>2009823
I whipped it up right now, but it should be reasonably accurate, though some ranges like 2-3 and 5-6-7 are less certain than others.

>>2009802

Ah. That explains it.

>>2009815

That's just Shiki trying to fill up the void left by SHIKI. So no, SHIKI is still gone.

>>2009792
I wonder what would happen if lancer was 2" shorter.
powerlevel discussion.

>>2009815
She acts like SHIKI because she wants him to be remembered ;_;

>>2009815
As Touko says, she tries to act out the personality(it's important to her and wants Mikiya to acknowledge SHIKI too).

>>2009827
There really is no cure of fucking idiots who refuse to face facts, is there.

>>2009814
you gotta be kidding me right? It isn't hinted several times that Saber is stronger than Berserker and would win if both were in top form. If he wasnt a Berserker now that would be more interesting since he would have his noble phantasms. And if Gilgamesh is stronger than saber, why did he lose?

>>2009829
>>2009831
;_; I loved that guy.

>>2009308
LONG AGO THERE WAS A FOOLISH SAMURAI WHO DARED TO OPPOSE ME

>>2009835
(And not that 2-5-9 being women does little to change my point.)

>>2009815
This is Shiki acting like a girl. Shiki is the girl, this is her being a girl. SHIKI was yandere, Shiki was kuudere. The Shiki that survives is composed of 50% kuudere and 50% moe.

Saber survived Lancer because she is lucky
She won a Noble Phantasm battle against Rider
She won against Berserker because Shirou managed to trace Caliburn and it somehow killed Berserker 7 times over. Yet when she tries to kill him with Excalibur in a bad ending it fails. whut?
She won against Assassin because his sword was bent
She won against Gil because of Avalon
She won against Archer in Hollow Atraxia because it was two against one and Archer neglected to prepare for possible melee combat
She was killed by Bazette in HA

I'd say Saber is somewhat broken but only because the plot tends to favor her

>>2009811
>KnK

>best movie I've watched my entire life

That's because you probably don't watch/play/read anything else that isn't written by Nasu or whatever the shit type moon makes.

>>2009839
Because Gil never gets serious in F/SN. The only time that we see him truly serious is in F/HA.

>>2009842
And then he died!

>>2009839
If you really actually ask this question, then you are either a faggot who trolls or you actually believe 'ONLY RAW POWER MATTERS ABOVE ALL' .
Which makes you a fucking idiot.

Are the novels translated, and if so, where can I read them?

>>2009850
>Yet when she tries to kill him with Excalibur in a bad ending it fails

I believe it was due to Saber not having enough mana to fully use it or somesuch.

( ﾟдﾟ)
That part was hilarious.

>>2009858
Quit putting words in my mouth, faggot, I just send there's a trend, and it doesn't look like you have much left to say to prove me wrong, so quit spewing this dumb shit already.

>>2009156
In all honesty, who didn't think for an istant "ARCHER ARM" during that certain scene?

>>2009867
Honestly, they're not very good. High School Nasu.

Just watch these movies, there's not much adaptation decay.

Everybody shut the fuck up. Ado Edom would fuck up everybody's shit.

>>2009815
how about you pay attention?

Gilgamesh is stronger than Saber

That's why he was immune to the grail's corruption and why he is worth 3 to for 4 times more mana that other servants when Sakura ate him

The last movie is murder case part 2 right? Do we get more Nakata?

>>2009853
In other words, he's just like every type-moon fanboy ever.

Nothing new here.

I know the point im trying to make sounds like I just care about power levels, but thats not the case. Look at all the male heroes, take a good fucking look at them. Aren't they all handicapped and fucking weak in some way? (Archer has his past + Retarded Idea Shirou is the same, Gilgamesh has an ego that causes him to lose, Cornelius is fucking retarded despite being powerful, Shiki has amnesia ffs.).

>>2009850
It's called 'Divine Protection'. She survived the attack, not avoided completely. She still lost to Lancer.
Rider's NP was just weaker.
She has too little mana to make Excalibur effective enough to kill many times. Shirou traced a near- Perfect Caliburn, and when attacking with it normally had the desired effect(against Berserker, Rank is more important than actual damage). She wins DUE TO SHIROU.
The sword was bent in the course of Battle.Excalibur>Simple Sword.
She won Agianst Gil both because of an NP she does not have normall and Gil fucking around.
The way you phrase it, it's pretty much Archer's fault.
Well, Bazzete has a good trump card.

She is on the top 3, but it's not such a vast gap other cannot beat her.
Lancer is the proof.

THE FILM ASSUMES YOU HAVE READ THE BOOK

READ THE BOOK

I know the point im trying to make sounds like I just care about power levels, but thats not the case. Look at all the male heroes, take a good fucking look at them. Aren't they all handicapped and fucking weak in some way? (Archer has his past + Retarded Idea Shirou is the same, Gilgamesh has an ego that causes him to lose, Cornelius is fucking retarded despite being powerful, Shiki has his weak body ffs.)

>>2009900
If you do a psyche analysis on the females too, it's not really good.

>>2009908

I haven't read the novels and it makes sense to me

>>2009859

>>2009912

All the men are handicapped, fine. That's true.

But all the women are handicapped, too. Otherwise they wouldn't be women.

DOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHO

>>2009914
But they have it much, much better. Saber has some righteous "I am the king" bs and must reverse everything I did wrong, which gives her a decent prupose. Shirou is like "OMG I SAW PEOPLE BURNING I WILL NEVER ALLOW ANOTHER PERSON TO DIE."

>>2009873
The point is:
You are wrong.
Females get jobbed as much as males.
You ask a question that pretty much makes all the battles of F/SN have no meaning at all.
You use a retarded standard to judge battle and storyline focus.
Any proof I present, would be rejected or twisted.
I really don't care what you do or think after this point, enjoy your opinions.

>>2009932
To the point that she seeks a miracle to erase all her work and her life and what made her who she is.
Enough self-loathing, don't you think?

Cornelius was just dumb to began with. He was like that in the novels too. There's a reason why the academy valued Touko more than him.

>>2009935
Way to leave the conversation. You're right, everyone has their opinions, its just mine is more true bro.

>>2009944
Don't try to make it seem like Saber has it worse, she doesn't. Shirou fucking lives as a counter guardian who's bitter, and is only waiting for a chance to KILL HIMSELF just so he MIGHT be able to paradox vanish, that's how bad Shirou has it.

>>2009949
There are facts and things that are wrong.
Whether we go by the stroy and plot, or the numbers the game itself offers at the status screen, make your point wrong.
Of course, you could make the scene Saber losing to Shirou in HF proof that she is almighty.

>>2009948
It's a pity, he had a nice TATARI thing going on.

>>2009967
Okay so Saber (under strict conditions) loses to Shirou. You're right, Type-moon usually doesn't favor female heroines, nice one bro.

>>2009958
That's how bad Archer is, not Shirou.

So you have a King who thinks she failed at life and spends EONS seeking a miracle to erase all that made her important at life, fighting at battles and Grail Wars instead of resting.

Then you have a man who regretted his life pursuing his ideal, is forced to be a counter Guardian for EONS, and seeks a miracle to let him erase his life.

Hmm...

>>2009982
The point is Saber is working for a just cause, and regardless if Archer isn't Shirou, they are both male. How can you say fighting in a way to prevent what happened during Saber's life is actually worse than fighting in a way to somehow come across yourself in that war, and then kill yourself so you can die.

>>2010010
Just cause?
Who says things will be better if Saber was never King?
Why is it right to change events that happened?

Both pursue a foolish wish that makes it seem like their life was wrong, and they make it their only salvation.

While in Fact, their life, no matter what, should be something they were proud of.
In Fate for Saber and Archer in UBW, they finally realize that.

>>2009798

He explains it to Touko, he was going to take control of her body in order to gain access to Akasha

>>2009781

Touko's pets are made of ether projected from her suitcase. I think she can control all their movements as the "strongest puppet master"

>>2009815

SHIKI is dead, and she's not pretending to be him; you'll find out in later chapters but if you want to know: it's her third personality which was created specifically for combat, which was the same personality Mikiya met at the beginning of chapter 2

>>2009867

Only up to half way through chapter 5, which you can find on Baka-Tsuki. The novels are going to be published in English by Del Rey Manga, the first one to be released some time this year.

>>2010026
True but its not what we are discussing. We are discussing the quality of thier past life. Saber lived as a king who did everything she could to unite the country, Archer did something similiar but he only wanted to save lives on a smaller scale but still ended up getting betrayed by his idea and eventually came to hate himself and sold his afterlife just so he could prevent ONE tragedy. He then lived as a counter guardian getting summoned in shit storms of people dying and had to fix the situation many times. He had to kill people to save people, he hated his life very much to the point where he wished he was just never born.

>>2010047
So did Saber, really.
She came to think as Archer, 'It's better if I wasn't the king'.
She has millions of regrets, things she considers failures (wars, betrayals, killing her own people while she just wanted them to be happy etc.)

Claiming Archer's tragedy is bigger makes not much sense.

>>2010043
Thanks for the answers.

>>2010047 lived as a counter guardian
No. He's dead. He doesn't experience anything as a counter guardian. He only receives information for what his copies that are summoned by the world had done. There is no concept of time for Archer.

So does Mikiya ever man up and sleep with Shiki or is their relationship going to remain dull?

>>2010087
There are getting it on since the 1st movie. Also >>2009994