/jp/ - Otaku Culture

You can't argue that those bottom character designs aren't better.

>>20028728
Because they focus on making profit. To achieve that they need to sell their product to larger audience and keep up with whatever popular on the market.
If you feel they lose their soul it is because conflict of interest and disconnection between you and the companies.

Why's Ishtar got the asymmetry going on anyway?

>>20028728
Because then their focus becomes "let's STAY big" and to do that, they have to focus on making as much profit as possible. And to do that, they have to appeal to the largest audience possible. And to do that, they can no longer thinks in terms of what they want to do or what would give their customers the better experience, but simply what would them MORE customers.

>>20028752
I don't know shit about Fate but I'll be that person and point out that the armour in the bottom ones is lazy fanservice. Boobs are not made of steel.

But overall yeah, they're better.

yeah, how did fate, a niche weaboo fandom, turn into a gachashit shovelware?

>>20028728
Lancer Artoria with armor looks decent though.

>>20028728
Rin and Saber are still sluts, nothing's changed

>>20028728
the chicks got hotter? whats the problem

>>20029012
And much like any system that relies on having more customers per business cycle to be viable, the moment it stagnates it's going to have a crisis and its death would soon follow.

That's what separates shit like Fate from the likes of Touhou, Vocaloid/UTAU or even VTubers. Those are sustained by the ones who like it and don't even need input from the ones who created it to continue their existences.

>>20028728
Because then all creative decisions start to come from comitees instead of artists.

>>20028728
I dunno, Type-moon keeps having more authors and artists who are fans of their stuff actually doing their stuff officially.

Maybe they're having more fun than ever as creators and it's the so-called old school fans that chained their souls down to the past because none of the things they dreamed up came true.

>>20031099
Official fanfiction is rarely a good thing.

type moon never had a soul to begin with, it was always garbage

>>20028728
Fate always tried to appeal to the mainstream though. Why else do you think he changed the MC into a male and turned King Arthur into a qt3.14 womyn stronk character for weebs to jack off to? I don't like shitting on what people enjoy but most of Fate has been entertaining schlock at best and absolute trash at worst (the last few years it's definitely more so the latter).

>>20032083
>changed MC into a male
I don't know Shirou was a tranny
>turned King Arthur into a girl
Well duh, how else are you supposed to improve on history and myths? What you're referring to as mainstream appeal is just plain and simple improvements.

>>20028752
I can. They are more elaborate and more generic-fantasy-anime than the original characters. They lack the distinctive Type-Moon faces. A lot of ornamental detail (patterns on clothes, small accessories) was added apparently to compensate for the new characters' more generic designs. In the end, none of them is as simple and iconic as Rin.
>>20032083
>womyn stronk
That's a complete misinterpretation of Saber and one of main themes of her route. It is completely forgivable to think this at the beginning of the route, but you were asleep at the wheel if you still thought it by its end.

>>20028728
They sell out, essentially.

FGO is basically printing money for comparatively zero effort. They're not just big, they're rich now.

>>20028728
Nothing is exempt from pic related.

>>20031859
"Garbage" and "soul" are independent variables. Something can go from garbage with soul to garbage without.

>>20033337
Reading this made me feel very sad.

>>20028728
How did TM become so successful, anyway? I have the impression that they were doing unusually well for a doujin circle even before they struck gold with FSN.

>>20032584
The original plan for FSN had a female Shirou and a male Saber but they were swapped into the versions we know now during the development process.

>>20034084
Is there original art?

They gave us Astolfo, so I don’t care.

>>20033337
>>20033790
Everything has a lifecycle, and it’s best not to spend to much energy trying to save a dying franchise. That being said Type Moon does have the potential to produce at least one more work on the level of F/SN or Tsukihime, but I doubt Nash can pull himself off his lazy ass long enough to accomplish it.

>>20034110
It became Fate/Prototype, if you look that up you'll probably find whatever the original designs were.

>>20028752
This.
Losing their soul was an improvement in this case.

>>20034127
gay

>>20028728
Companies never had souls to begin with, so there was nothing to lose.
Nerds were just more catered to in the beginning, but when more cash started coming from normals, nerds were dumped like a prom date backup on the dance floor.

If you want to avoid that, go the 2hu route and never corporatize at all.

>>20028728
Because money.

>>20035275
This.

>>20033193
You're mistaking your nostalgia for good design

The original type moon designs are objectively terrible and poorly made. They're so utterly unimaginative and unrepresentative of the characters, the world, and their narrative purpose that it's laughable. They're the kind of designs you find autists on deviantart making that are literally just "person in blue shirt" "person in red shirt" "person in blue shirt with white hair" There is absolutely zero aspect of design that they even reach the bar on. The nicest thing that you can say about them is that they aren't cluttered.

The fact that you actually try to play off type moon's shitty ayylmao same face as a good thing that the new designs lack is the most laughable part.

>>20036707
Not him but did you not realize that's the fucking point of Shirou and Sakura's designs? They're just everypeople, of sorts.

>>20028728
Shirou became a nigger? WTF?

>>20030930
Rin look better with DFC. Pettanko ftw.

>>20036793

There's a difference between ordinary and aggressively plain. You can show that a character is an ordinary or unremarkable person without making them utterly featureless.

Like yeah, okay real people don't always dress their personality (except you can usually tell a hell of a lot about a person by how they dress) but if you're going to use a visual fucking medium, you should be using it for a purpose. You can use details of a character's clothing and appearance to convey information about them without going into nomura territory. Outfits aren't even the most significant part of a character's design. A simple test of character's design quality is if the character is distinguishable without their clothes and hair. The fact that King fucking arthur and a japanese schoolgirl would become literally identical should be objective proof enough of how garbage the type moon designs are.

>>20036895
>you should be using it for a purpose
Like showcasing how these people are ordinary by having them look ordinary.
You're just an idiot.

>>20037018
>being ordinary means being a featureless blank slate

Why are you willfully retarded?

They aren't even supposed to be "ordinary" anyway. What a stupid fucking point to try to push. Sakura's a fucking wizard full of magic worms and Shirou's the fucking protagonist of the game with novels of bullshit going on in his life and background. What is this horseshit about having to look "ordinary". They sure weren't thinking about that when they gave two japs red and purple hair because anime.

>>20037056
>>20037018

Adding onto that, as if those two characters are specifically the problem. Like it isn't every single type moon design ever, that's the exact same shit. They were drawn by a bad artist. Get over it.

>>20037056
>Sakura's a fucking wizard full of magic worms and Shirou's the fucking protagonist of the game with novels of bullshit going on in his life and background.
But we don't know that at the start, and we're not supposed to know that at the start, and that's not the sort of thing they would wear on their sleeves. Thus, ordinary designs for the ordinary people we're supposed to see them as and that they pretty much are, on the outside.

What, is this normal person supposed to wear blue spandex and hold onto his throbbing lance everywhere he goes?

>>20037085
I dunno, maybe a character who's been undergoing torturous abuse for years would show some kind of visual sign of that.

As for all the heroic spirits, they're easily worse than the regular characters. They're so utterly divorced from the spirit of the characters, the source materials and culture that it's frankly stupefying. They couldn't even find some bullshit reason for why they look the way they do. Blue spandex bodysuits were just real fashionable in medieval ireland I guess.

>>20037115
>I dunno, maybe a character who's been undergoing torturous abuse for years would show some kind of visual sign of that.
Why? Because you say so? I mean hell, she doesn't WANT anyone to know what's going on with her, she actively tried to stop Shirou from finding out the truth.

>They're so utterly divorced from the spirit of the characters, the source materials and culture
This isn't fucking Age of Empires dude, this is an eroge about a kooky secret war between myth heroes to see who gets the Dragon Balls.

>>20037141

If you're going to abandon any pretext of realism, then you're throwing your value entirely on pure aesthetics, and type moon designs are just flat out ugly dude. Even if they weren't do dedicated to preserving their ayylmao heads as an integral aspect of their designs, they still just look bad.

>>20028728
why did you post this on both /v/ and /jp/

>>20037175
Nice opinions.

>>20036707
Simple, which is what these character designs are, is not the same as unimaginative. It is much harder to produce a simple character design than a complex one, because you can just pile on elements to create the latter.

Rin in particular has a brilliant design with very few elements. You can draw her from memory and it will be accurate enough for anyone to recognize. Virtually every element of her design is used in some way: the red color of her shirt suggest a fiery personality (Rin and Sakura's colors are like Asuka and Rei's), she plays with her long hair when she talks, etc. The same is true of Saber, Sakura, Tagia, Archer and others. In other words, the designs are memorable, expressive and don't waste the artist's time and the reader's attention on unnecessary elements.

I do agree that they suffer from sameface but at least it isn't the generic 2010s anime girl sameface. I'll take sexy ayylmaos over that.

>>20036895
>The fact that King fucking arthur and a japanese schoolgirl would become literally identical
Are you complaining about Japanese characters not looking Asian?

>>20037115
>maybe a character who's been undergoing torturous abuse for years would show some kind of visual sign of that
>>20037141
>she doesn't WANT anyone to know
She still shows it, though. Sakura is timid and shy, looks to the side a lot and unlike the two other love interests has what they call tareme eyes.

>>20034127
capitalism.txt

>>20037115
>maybe a character who's been undergoing torurous abuse for years would show some kind of visual sign of that.
>As for all the heroic spirits, they're easily worse than the regular characters. They're so utterly divorced from the spirit of the characters, the source materials and culture that it's frankly stupefying.
But that happens on both old TM and current TM

>>20038692
It's like how anime pussies out of making any actually-cosmic-horror girl too weird and inhuman under the surface. Nobody is willing to write and draw how really different characters from different places and eras would look and interact. I wish someone would, but I recognize it would take 10 times the effort of how FSN did it (even if all of them magically understood Japanese) and appeal to a narrower audience.

>>20039114
>even if all of them magically understood Japanese
On that, didn't Gil have furigana to indicate "he calls himself Ware but he clearly means Ore"? Though when they added voice acting they just had him say Ore.

>lose their soul
Typemoon never had a soul, it was always a waifu simulator, F/GO simply concentrated its essence.

>>20039220
A waifu simulator (or rather, a waifu interaction simulator) can have soul. Besides, soul is not a binary, it's a spectrum.

>>20030668
Is this sarcasm, Anon?

>>20028728
Bottom: soulless

Top: also soulless

Fate never had any soul to begin with.

Tsukihime and Fate both seemed like stories it's creators wanted to tell, with very personal ideas imbued into it. Though nobody can prove one way or the other what's true, very few people who I've talked to and have read these stories tell me they're "no soul". It really does feel like a story somebody wanted to tell to many people.

Almost nothing Type-moon has made since then feels this way.

also grand order designs are shit, making it over-elaborate doesn't distract from having the same face every single time, and making the male into a female is genuinely frustrating. Saber was that way for a reason that ties into her identity.
basically all this is to say if you play grand order you brush your teeth with cock and rinse your mouth with piss.

>>20037809
>tareme eyes.
>drooping eyes eyes

>>20046417
>making the male into a female is genuinely frustrating
It's a common pattern. Some fictional work has a character with a gimmick, like a cool special ability or an unusual origin story. The gimmick is extraordinary, but the setting is fairly normal. It looks reasonable over all when only that one character has it. The work becomes popular, and in an effort to replicate its initial success the creators add more and more characters with the same gimmick. In time the setting becomes ridiculous, because having a lot of people with the same gimmick was not part of the original premise and the setting is not designed around it.

I don't see any difference