/jp/ - Otaku Culture

How does it feel modern literature is worse than eroge?

Illya is cute

>>19949957
Maybe one day the light will come back and modern literature will stop being so shit, for now we fap to h-games in between Tolstoy

>>19949973
Wouldn't get my hopes up desu.

>>19949888
i'm reading marcel proust atm and ur not missing anything rly

>>19950535
I love Proust though, I never said I don’t read it I am just saying I should be reading even more instead of VN’s especially when I have 1000 books in my house that I need to read at one point.

Imagine a Proust VN though, I wonder how that would work....

>>19950639
*I am not saying I don’t read real literature, I am just saying

>>19949888
>I should be reading real classic literature instead.
Why do you think so?

>>19950684
Because it is a far more fulfilling and better experience then a VN, as it is far better written then anything found in a VN, and I have a lot to read but I still kind of like VNs even though I feel like kind of a pleb when I read them so it feels wrong. I decided to devote myself to literature and writing, and I also decided to never read a book that is not real literatureч, so reading anything that isn’t really well written kind of feels like a sin for me. I feel like I am being sinful for playing Muv Luv or Fate, but not because of H-scenes.

>>19950768
Autism.

classic literature is overrated

>>19950799
Admittedly you are right but I just can’t help myself
>>19950820
No u

>>19950768
If it was really so satisfying you wouldn't be here.

>>19950857
Just read what you like. If you like to read VNs read them.

>>19950639
>I love Proust though
really? i mean, it's well written and i can appreciate it in away but after 10 actual pages full of descriptions about a church, as nice as they were, i sorta wanna have some movement

>>19949888
Fate is by no means low-tier literature. It explores some very interesting themes, especially with Shirou and Archer in UBW and Kotomine in HF. That being said some classic literature is worth reading. Off the top of my head Jane Austen’s more mainstream works, One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest, Brave New World, and anything by HG Wells or Jules Verne are worth giving a try.

classic literature is dogshit. if it was any good then the humanities like english wouldn't be 90% women. that's not even talking about how if it was good then people could write similar stuff/improve it so "modern literature" wouldn't be so absolute shit too. results are reality. it's just circle jerking of losers patting themselves on the back. so-called classic literature won't even be looked at in the future

>>19951107
Jesus Christ your level of ignorance is insane, thousands upon thousands of
years of respect for literature and art that had helped to influence the world we live in and society itself and now we have this - no wonder books are now shit. You make think you are in a position to judge literature, but you are not, you are no different then a teenage girl who is annoyed that she is reading a book for English class. If you actually read, if you actually tried to understand works of literature then your perspective on the world would completely change. Literature has a very real effect on the real world, Tropic of Cancer has changed how we view sex and the Iliad was used as a standard (almost a bible) in society and how the Greeks saw the world. You simply “do not understand the significance of this room”, that is the importance of thinking and reflecting in every day life. Literature has survived since beyond 2100 BC, what makes you think it won’t survive in the future? Also, up until the 21st century literature has been male; the reason why it is female now is that people are becoming stupider, and are thus rejecting literature as effeminate since it is being discouraged in societ right now.

>>19950768
I think it's a bit of a misunderstanding to say that you can only have a fulfilling and good experience reading something if it's classic literature. While yes, a lot of the greatest works of classic literature are most definitely profound and worth investing time into and thinking about, that doesn't mean other written works aren't.
I don't think you should focus so much on reading something that is universally accepted to be "good" in order to ensure a fulfilling experience, but rather, focus on thinking about and really exploring the themes and concepts of whatever it is that you personally happen to enjoy reading. If you're into VN's and enjoy reading them, then don't just mindlessly absorb one after another, but really think about what you're reading and what's happening in the same way you would whatever you consider a "good" book.

I'm really shit at putting it into words, but I really dislike this notion that the only good literature is classic literature and anything else is shallow junk. Sure, there's tons of trashy VN's out there, but there's plenty that are seriously well thought out and that push the limits of the medium. It's up to you yourself to make reading a meaningful experience.

>>19951317
Autism

>>19949888
Saya no uta is classic literature.

>>19951317
board posting are literature. my shitposts are literature. welcome to the future old man i look forward to the jay being studied as the forefront of development in literature

>>19951752
>all writing is literature
Wrong again. There are some 4chan stories that are literature, well used greentext can even be considered a form of poetry, but that does not make your autistic hissyfits literature.

This post is literature.

>>19949888
It's okay to enjoy both. Sometimes you need to take a break from hard and deep literature and you just enjoy some catchy story that's easy to read and keeps you hooked to your screen for hours on end.

>>19949888
Why "should" you be reading anything? Just read what you want you stupid fuck.

>>19950768
I hope for your sake that you're underage and this is a phase.

>>19950639
>Imagine a Proust VN though, I wonder how that would work....
it'd probably work pretty well he did say his novel was trying to be like a painting after all

>>19950639
>1000 books in my house
Do you happen to have a lamborghini?

This guys pathetic and obviously doesn't read, literature or eroge. You'd think if he read all these classics he wouldn't write and think like an edgy middling intelligent teen. Romeo is one of my favorite writers as well as tolstoy. Pleb

>>19953213
Reading classics doesn't make you smarter.

>>19954180
Reading eroge does though.

>>19949888
>Type-Moon
Might as well feel bad for not reading more ABC books.

>>19950768
If it really were so fulfilling, you'd be doing that instead. It seems like you're holding on to the standard of "high art" others have set.
>>19952582
This is almost certainly the case, and I don't mean that in a rude way for once. I think it's typical of people who have only just begun to explore the world and use the opinions of others as a crutch before truly forming their own point of view.

There is a critical lack of doujins that explore this route and becoming Illya's play doll.

>>19949888
at least read a vn with solid art

>>19952582
only good post itt

>>19955598
God I wish that were me

>>19955953
What's stopping you from forming a one-man doujin circle and creating nothing but doujinshi with that theme?!

>>19955978
the same thing that's stopping all of /jp/ from doing anything productive with their life presumably: a completely lack of motivation, talent or any skills whatsoever

>>19955978
>>19956009
This, I can’t fucking draw I make early ZUN look like Velasquez

Pic related is supposed to be Russia Girl

>>19949888
Why is it impossible to enjoy both? Why must you hold yourself to an asinine standard of extremes where something regarded by others as exemplary should be the only thing worthy of consumption?
In other words, stop being an insecure bitch and learn to appreciate your affection towards VN's while being able to enjoy classic literature like the rest of us. Quit your black and white thinking.

bumping potentially interesting thread

300 years from now kids will be reading FSN for literature class and discussing if Tohsaka really does please old men for money and how pure Sakura is.

>>19962823
>Tohsaka really does please old men for money
This single topic will have more essays then all of Hamlet

You can't complain about VN writing if you're reading translations. That's your own fault for reading a watered down version. With that being said most VN writing is garbage anyway, but that's to be expected of a medium that has such a fuckhuge amount of works. Same with anime and anything else; it can't all be good. Anyway, the point of otaku media is not to be deep or "good", it's purpose is to be entertaining. I don't go to Mcdonalds expecting a 5 star burger, and I don't open a VN expecting some literary masterpiece.

>>19952582
probably this, I remember being young and super cautious/elitist about what I'd read/watch until I grew older and came to the conclusion that I should just appreciate what I truly appreciate

>>19949888
you should feel guilty for reading a piece of shit like fate

I can guarantee that in 50 years, games like Subahibi, Muramasa and Cross Channel will be studied alongside the works of Conrad, Dostoyevsky, Kafka etc.

>>19951317
So you're not only an avant-teen ESL /lit/ crossie, you're also a /pol/ crossie.
Kill yourself out of /jp/.

>>19963157
Being a /mu/ crossie is not much better, you know.

I feel guilty because I keep reading classic literature instead of comfy VNs.
VN about a nymph in mythological Greece when?

>>19963157
I FUCKING HATE POL AND I COME FROM THE UK, POL IS THE BANE OF MY EXISTENCE WHY DO YOU GUYS KEEP ASSUMING STUFF ABOUT ME THAT ISN’T TRUE? I WOULD KILL EVERYONE ON POL FOR RUINING 4CHAN! WHAT PART OF MY POST HAS ANYTHING TO DO WOTH POL, POL IS KUSO, KUSO, KUSO, KUSO PLEASE DON’T ASSOCIATE IT WITH ME - EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER!

THIS IS THE 7 BILLIONTH TIME I HAVE BEEN CALLED ESL ON THIS SITE, I WRITE LIKE THAT BECAUSE I HAVE OCD AND I NEED TO DO CERTAIN THINGS - STOP BEING MEAN!

>>19963402
You need to calm down little fox.

No route

>>19963762
HF

>>19949888
I feel guilty jacking it to hentai because I know I should be jacking it to real Renaissance paintings instead.

I feel guilty about not being a cute loli. I'm so sorry for failing you jay pee...

>>19967505
:-(

But I do read the classic literary works of yonder. I even went through Subahibi again the other day.

Don't feel bad, OP. No work, penned by man or alien, will ever topple the literary masterpiece that is Light and Dark the Adventures of Dark Yagami.

>>19968012
You could have at least made the joke about some PC-98 eroge, since Subahibi came out after Fate/ stay night so it makes no sense as a comparison in this context.

>>19968470
It makes sense because Subahibi is in fact a work of literary fiction, in the same way that Infinite Jest is more "literary" than The Stand despite being more recent.

I found the perfect substitute for Fate!

What is the literary equivalent of Muramasa?

For learning, vns are a bit of a waste of time but it's nice to chill for a while sometimes.

When will visual novels become the default story-telling medium? "Interactive storytelling" games were popular for a bit till people realized your choices actually didnt do anything but change a line or so of dialogue. Choose-your-own-adventure books had their time in the spotlight a couple decades ago, but the format makes it a pain in the ass.

Visual novels perfectly combine all of the above and can be as simple or complicated as the creator wants. It can be as basic as a white screen with black words or as complicated Sengoku Rance or Muv-Luv. This perfect medium can be used by the same people who would normally just write a book or even by an entire game development company.

How do we go about normalizing vns and bringing out in the open. Bring creative minds to the format outside of eroge developers.

>>19969509
>How do we go about normalizing vns and bringing out in the open
That would ruin them

>>19969509
I think the sociology works out right (or at least was working for a solid decade) so that you had a lot of creative people bringing their ideas to the format. Hollywood is noramlized and out into the open and produces comparatively little despite their massive budgets.

Perhaps something can be said for revisiting that old Iron Cage article.

>>19969509
>This perfect medium can be used by the same people who would normally just write a book
Not really, since it also requires art, music, and some programming ability.

>>19971676
I mean, I've often thought that I'd like to write a VN, as I have some ideas for stories and it's my favorite medium. I have some ability with writing and music, but the biggest hurdle for me would be art. I can't draw very well and I don't know anyone who can, so it would be a huge pain in the ass to deal with, either through trying to develop the skill myself or finding someone else to work with. Of course, I also think, "If I wrote one then people would just call it shit because it was originally written in English," which might be the larger discouragement, perhaps for the better.

>>19971676
As far as barriers to entry go, it's lower than film with about the same phenomenological richness in terms of creative possibilities.

Definitely higher barriers to entry than writing fanfiction, but even a published book needs to have corporate backing, needs to be physically printed, etc.

What the west lacks is a good doujin market.

>>19971723
>it's lower than film with about the same phenomenological richness in terms of creative possibilities.
I have to disagree slightly. One difference that I have noticed is that film has the ability to coordinate sound and visuals in a choreographed manner, whereas visual novels generally cannot. For example, editing a scene so that the particular part of a piece of music beings at a particular moment in the scene, or at a certain spot of dialogue. In a VN you would have to simply play a looping song in the background of the entire scene as the reader has to be able to progress through it at his own speed. There are also a lack of visual variation in how things are presented and issues with pacing. A good example of this is the anime adaptation of Clannad, particularly in its adaptation of After Story in season 2. Comparing it to the VN, the VN seems rather flat. The show takes full advantage of audio timing and a more complex visual presentation to dramatically increase the emotional effect of the scenes in a way that was not possible in the VN. Likewise the ending in the VN is stripped of its catharsis through ruined pacing due to its adherence to normal VN route structure, a problem which is obviated in the anime by shifting to a singular narrative progression.

>>19971769
Also, I don't mean to imply that VNs are an inferior medium. VNs have their own strengths as well, such as being able to provide textual narration, inner monologue, etc., which aren't possible in film to the same degree. It's kind of a trade-off, going from one to the other.

>>19971769
I agree with you insofar as: we havent had a visual novel that truly knew how to use ambience and musical pieces.

What we have had so far is just songs or sound effects programmed to start when a certain line appears, but so much more can be done. Roght now its a one way street, but if you have the lines of dialogue working the same way, you can manipulate emotions in much the same way as movies and video game cutscenes. Let me try and describe what Im thinking, it's an idea Ive wanted to implement eventually or at least see implemented.

The music and sound doesnt need to be composed as one file pieces. First what you need to do is have timed text, not simply "reading speed and click", but as though the lines were spoken. An example would be a loud crash represented by rapid bold text. But to work in tandem with tge text, you need ambient sounds and single instrument pieces that play in tune with the text, and instead of a normal song playing on repeat till the next one starts, what you have is multiple separate instrumentals coming together to form a piece that carries on with the text. A new song wouldnt start once the mood changes as normal, but certain instruments would drop and new ones come in.

This of course would be very time consuming to create as every line would have to be "directed" instead of just thrown in, but shorter vns of course could easily use this to their benefit as they dont have the massive amount of time as say Umineko would in building atmosphere and emotion.

>>19971723
>What the west lacks is a good doujin market.
It's got Steam. The _market_ part of the market is there. What there isn't is any sort of proper community.

>>19972130
>What we have had so far is just songs or sound effects programmed to start when a certain line appears,
Reminds me of the part at the end of Little Busters in Refrain where it's playing a certain song, then when it reaches a certain point of dialogue it abruptly switches to a later part of the song. It ends up sounding sudden and rough because it can't be timed properly, whereas in the anime the switch is choreographed with the dialogue so it changes naturally.

>>19971718
>If I wrote one then people would just call it shit because it was originally written in English,"
Dude, just go all out and James Joyce on the prose then. Make it less understandable then Finnegan's Wake, peoplw would be flocking at it in no time.

>>19972130
>>19972130
The fact that you can’t read what is going on puts greater impact on the cinematography, film has the use of constant movement, film has the use of the camera etc. Films and VNs are completely different, even the 1-3 hours length films normally take is important for how the medium is structured. The medium and working of films allows it to experiment with themselves, there are things in film you cant describe due to how surreal they are, you can’t have a constant non-linear narrative that keeps jumping in a VN. Films have been inspired by plays not books, plays exist for a reason, dialogue only works exist for a reason. Some scenes have a level of mystery to them simply because there is no description for what is going on, especially in strange scenes, not knowing what is going on can be extremely impactful.

Ivan the Terrible would lose its impact as a VN, and you can’t create the Mirror as a VN.

>>19972602
Was in no way suggesting that a vn could be on equel footing with cinema. The comparison I was trying to make was that with that process, visual novels could manipulate emotions closer to real time in much the same way. Word by word instead of frame by frame. Instead of the emotions slowly welling up as you process what you're reading, the emotions would be, in a sense, delivered, and much quicker.

>>19972602
You absolutely could have a constant non-linear narrative. It would just work different than Mirror.

I also think Sans Soleil could work as a VN, for example. More "filmic" modes of storytelling are possible than what are currently explored.

>>19949973
>>19949888

Who invited /lit/ here?

I only read real classic VN's.

>>19975127
>>19974140
Seems interesting, maybe this is a project that could be done if anyone is up from it. Something could actually come from this thread.

>>19975462
How do I stop this?

>>19950768
They are very different experiences, ч-man. The biggest advantage that conventional novels have over VNs is that the constraints of their medium and of the publishing business generally force them to get to the point. I find VNs too wordy and their language flowery, but then I think Hemingway's writing is ideal. However, the wordiness isn't always a waste. Fate creates a sense of the characters' everyday life thanks to it. The magical elements have more impact with that background. Maybe a greater writer could establish it with five times fewer words, but it's fact that Fate still has it.

You should not look down upon yourself for playing Fate. In the end, it's a thrilling, visceral and sexy boy's adventure story. It's fine to enjoy all that, at any age. It is even better if you learn from its mistakes: note when the character psychology is unrealistic (half of the time, really), when events occur that are too convenient, when they didn't have a Taiga route, the fuckers, etc. It will make you a better reader and writer.

Finally, you shouldn't be comparing VNs to just literature. They have writing, but also art, sound and interaction. Compare them to anime, comics, movies, television and video games. VNs are a better use of your time than almost anything on television, that's for sure.

>>19975462
Classic VNs?

>>19949888
Is this particular image in the PS2 version of FSN?

>>19975665
That’s a great reply, thanks. Also,
>they didn't have a Taiga route, the fuckers
Are you me? Gets me angry every time.

>>19975682
Probably because it is not really erotic, I only played the PC version though.

>>19975685
>Gets me angry every time.
As fun as it is to imagine, honestly, I think it's for the best. They likely would have either changed her character in unfun ways or run her shtick into the ground if the route were the same length as the other three. A shorter fan disc, though? That could work.

>>19975712
The holy fan-disk with all the missing routes...

>>19975615
Its something Ive had on my mind, been planning to do it for a while. I just can't seem to force myself to start writing and practice drawing. I already have a pen tablet and Corel Painter for the art, WriteItNow for the writing, and Visual Novel Maker for puting everything together. Just missing the electric piano keyboard and software for the music.

>>19975722
Which would that be?

>>19975749
I mean, which routes would those be.

>>19975747
It may be worth for you to find an artist to cooperate with. Even if you learn to draw well, people are usually stronger at either writing or drawing, and it would help to have someone who is the opposite of you.
>Visual Novel Maker
Not Ren'Py?

>>19975127
La Jetée is like a VN on YouTube with no good ending.

>>19975755
Taiga
Ilya
Ayako
Berserker rape route

>>19950639
>I have 1000 books in my house that I need to read at one point
You don't need to. It's better to read a book out of interest than out of obligation. Look for books you would travel to another town and pay $100 for to find what really interests you.

>>19975864
*Illya

>>19975865
Anywhere a translation of Orlando Innamorato is available? In verse, unabridged? I would pay a lot for that....
>>19975747
Post of an example drawing so we can see your skills as >>19975772 said it may be better to find an artist that can collaborate, maybe someone here can help you?

>>19975864
>>19975868
>Illya
It would prevent the franchise from having adaptations.
>Berserker rape route
Imagine poor Saber reacting to that.

>>19951091
>after 10 actual pages full of descriptions about a church
What's for breakfast, Shirou-kun?

>>19975902
You question sounds like something a librarian at a good library should be able to answer.

>>19975913
>It would prevent the franchise from having adaptations
Who needs adaptations when we have loli sex?

>>19975948
Type-Moon.

>>19975902
>Anywhere a translation of Orlando Innamorato is available? In verse, unabridged? I would pay a lot for that....
Slavitt's abridged translation was updated in 2012 and should be complete now. I think Reynolds' was complete back in the 70s, though.

>>19971676
>>19971723
The problem is that for a VN to be consistently enjoyable to a wide audience, all of those aspects have to be there and each one has to be done well and work together. Pulling all of that together without detracting from the creative vision is a lot to ask, especially on the programming side. Combine that with the fact that people dont read or view still art as much and it becomes not worth the time for people who have something that they actually want to express when the alternatives of film and animation exist. It ends up being relegated to people with small means and small creative vision, for the same reason comics haven't taken off as a medium despite there being a lot of opportunity to express ideas in interesting ways.
I'm pretty hopeful that Steam will start to change that eventually, though

>>19975772
I was actually planning to use Ren'Py but when VNM came out, I thought I'd try it to see how it compares or how the it develops further over time. As far as the art goes, I'm fairly decent at it, only what I've mostly done is realistic sketches instead of anime or something similar.

>>19975902
Im in the middle of a roadtrip, won't be home for about 6 hours. I'll take a picture of a sketch I did of a girl once I'm back. Could have a couple people doing the art, like someone doing the backgrounds and another doing the sprites.

>>19956049
>>19970745

>>19976009
His January is pretty much impossible for me...
Do you think someone with this handwriting can draw well?

>>19976117
Anon, are you using this as an excuse to post your handwriting? Unless you have a problem with fine motor skills and it shows that, your handwriting doesn't matter.

>>19976134
>Unless you have a problem with fine motor skills
That is my point, I find that very difficult.

>>19976170
Then you may want to see a doctor to confirm this.

>>19975985
/jp/ has strangely been more useful than anywhere else, thanks.

>>19975987
>especially on the programming side
Maybe it's because I am a programmer, but this sounds funny to me. What do you mean? VNs and VN engines aren't hard to program. It's something a 14-year-old can do. I bet there are fewer artists than programmers that age who are capable of doing commercial-quality work for a VN.

>>19962959
I think you can complain about the writing in translation, because some qualities of the writing will survive even bad translation. Of course, sometimes it is obvious the translation itself is to blame.

>>19976207
I've been trying out making my own VNs for only a year and even I agree. As long as you're primarily making a novel and telling a story instead of making something like a video game with visual novel elements, it's pretty simple stuff. Anything too complex and unnecessary might end up coming off as less like a VN and more like something else, but it's still not terribly difficult.

>>19972130
>First what you need to do is have timed text, not simply "reading speed and click", but as though the lines were spoken.
Fuck you, make a fucking movie if you wanted to fine tune the pacing that much. Don’t make me spend an extra 5 seconds on a line I’ve already read, or worse, reveal the words at a snails pace.

>>19976739
This. Aside from the effort people don't do this shit because it's fucking annoying. It's a written medium and can be read at the reader's own pace. That's a plus, not a minus.

>>19976828
>>19976739
It'd be no different than reading subtitles you obnoxious cunts.

>>19976859
You know most VNs aren't all dialogue, right? There's a lot of monologue and narration. If you want to make something that's all dialogue and the pace is entirely controlled, it just becomes a movie you were too cheap or lazy to animate. It doesn't sound much like a VN anymore, nor particularly enjoyable as an experience.

>>19976909
I might not have made it clear and I apologize for that, but I didnt mean controlled text for everything. I only meant controlled text in dialogue and where its of emotional relevance. Like if its just casual dialogue then of course theres no point, but when emotion is needed to be conveyed, then what I suggested could be applied.

>>19976859
Then make an anime you unreformable autist

>>19976968
Plenty of VNs already do that, then. I think it's hard to make the switch not feel jarring or awkward though.

>>19976739
Do you hate voice acting, too?

>>19976976
God forbid an anon wastes his spare time trying to do something new with the medium.

>>19977030
I don’t usually listen to the full line, if that’s what you’re asking.
>>19977036
No offense, but your idea was shit. The reader will naturally slow down and take their time going through important or emotional moments, if you capture their interest of course. Not to mention plenty of visual novels already have something similar.

>>19977082
Not that anon, but did you read his post? How is your reading comprehension? He wasn't saying slowed text at all. He was talking about music that corresponds to the text. Not single file pieces that play on repeat till the next one, but individual instrumentals that come in one at a time and join together in conjunction with the lines of text etc etc

>>19977082
>>19977036
If anything I think triggering a forced pace in emotional moments can easily cheapen them. It's like sending a big alarm to your audience "hey, look, it's time for an emotional scene now!" before or just as it happens. It's damaging to immersion and robs you of the ability to be subtle when segueing into an emotional moment.

>>19977167
Did you miss the part he quoted that started the whole discussion?

>>19975665
Tsukihime was better than Fate.

>>19977749
Incorrect, but understandable.

>>19977835
I finished Tsukihime feeling satisfied. I finished Fate feeling kind of upset and disgusted and relieved that it was over. I think Heavens Feel ruined that game for me, as I had enjoyed it quite a bit up to that point.

>>19975902
poutchouli.s-ul.eu/PDMlkIJM.jpg
poutchouli.s-ul.eu/wdqQ2Gmz.png
poutchouli.s-ul.eu/DcEFWUDK.png

Sorry for the long wait, it was a long drive. Anyways, here's a couple examples.

>>19977862
>upset and disgusted and relieved that it was over
Typical for a long visual novel.

>>19977862
What do you think of Fate/Zero and Kara no Kyoukai?
>>19977883
Do you have any stylized human faces and figures? You probably don't want to draw realistically for a VN.

>>19977890
Nah, I've experienced the normal burnout with other games, e.g. Dies Irae, where by the end I'd just lost interest and wanted it to finish already. This was different and specifically due to the content of the game.

>>19977913
>What do you think of Fate/Zero and Kara no Kyoukai?
I watched Zero on a whim after hearing everyone sing its praises, but wasn't particularly impressed. My favorite parts were Alexander the Great and the Kotomine/Gilgamesh relationship. I didn't bother with Kara no Kyoukai as I had decided to avoid anything else by Nasu at that point.

>>19977913
Sorry to barge in, but Fate/Zero was Epic.

Reading Heavens Feel made me feel like I was reading something written by a person with a fetish for being with a sexually abused woman who gets off by imagining all the abuse she suffered and having his face rubbed in it.

>>19977968
In a strange way, this ties into the game's theme that to want to be a hero is to want there to be victims to rescue.

>>19977994
I can see that to an extent. But compare it to Tsukihime, which also deals with prolonged sexual abuse; but it presents the material in a more restrained and tasteful way that primarily focuses on the psychological aspects of it and doesn't give you much detail about the physical abuse.

>>19977862
>Heavens Feel ruined that game for me, as I had enjoyed it quite a bit up to that point.
Horrible taste. Also strange considering you liked tsukihime.

>>19977968
This seems more like your own extrapolations. There's nothing wrong with graphic portrayals.

>>19978125
>Also strange considering you liked tsukihime.
See >>19978009. They deal with the same subject matter in very different ways.

>>19977913
Haven't really tried my hand at stylization yet but I'm going to start practicing soon, if I can motivate myself that is. Haven't done hardly any art in the past several months but Im really trying to push myself to be productive again.

>>19978174
Good luck, anon. Remember that (at least in art) the only enemy you need to defeat is yourself.

>>19978180
And the only way to get better is to practice.
I've kinda been thinking that the first style I want to use as inspiration as far as in the anime realm goes is Wakfu. There's a certain charm to it I find very appealing. The style also seems to fit both lewd and innocent motifs funnily enough. Also for Wakfu's style, I actually prefer the look of it while theyre working on animating it vs the final product.
not to mention they actually animate it uncensored before they censor it for public release

poutchouli.s-ul.eu/yENmybHg.jpg
poutchouli.s-ul.eu/1PsC5KaL.jpg
poutchouli.s-ul.eu/xieNSQTD.jpg

>>19975688
It is still inappropriate behavior.

>>19978241
>they actually animate it uncensored before they censor it for public release
I would expect nothing less of the French.

>>19976207
>>19976691
It's not that it's too difficult and I might overcompensating because I program but have never worked with VN software, but I feel like while art is way more important, not enough people spend as much time on programming, beyond the the kind of thing a 14 year old could do. A lot of the VNs I've seen feel like they are made by people who learn to code just for what is needed and wont put in extra effects like timing ambience to parts of text, fading in multiple parts of a screen or things like that beyond pretty simple effects. I think a lot of VNs don't take that opportunity to immerse people in what they're seeing and make things cinematic as much as they should, though from what I've read here people disagree with me so I might be nit picking

>>19978310
I heavily agree with you, and this is what I eventually want to implement someday in a vn whenevet I get around to creating one. I don't think the text should be slowed like cinema dialogue however like others were suggesting.

Perhaps theres a middle ground tho. Like the ambient effects or the musical pieces like that one anon was saying could come in as the words in the line of text fade in like some vns have them appear. The speed of the text fade-in could be changed in settings which would adjust when the sound effects play. So if you adjust it to your reading speed, then the effects would play at the right time for you. This is just a thought, but... what if instead of just pressing enter once to go to the next line, what if you hold it? As you hold it, the text fades in to the speed you set and stops when you release.

>>19978366
Add gamepad support. Have the analog stick control the text speed. (I am only half joking here.)

>>19978366
I think something like fading sentences or phrases when you scroll while keeping the overall speed the same might be a nice change that might take wouldn't take much to implement, but I feel like most people would just hold enter all the time with that method, which would turn some people off. It might be better in practice though. I think theres got to be some way to guide text so that more dramatic and cinematic scenes dont feel out of place. I'd love to see more VNs do things like this so I wish you luck in creating one.

>>19978422
I'd actually really appreciate gamepad support, I read VNs on a TV from my bed pretty often and using the gamepad from that position can be a lot easier than a mouse and keyboard.

>>19978310
I agree with you but I don't really think VNs should be too cinematic. The sprites and CGs graphical style is forgivable because it's a written medium first, and the visuals and sound support the text. When you give too much prominence to the other elements, that's when it's gonna get annoying to stare at sprites and CGs for hours, no matter how much you add in effects.

>>19978310
A 14-year-old could totally do all the effects in Fate. The main problem with teenage programmers is that they don't debug things enough.

>>19982756
These are so bad.

>>19983677
Seems like they fit the game then

>>19984177
Some games are good because they have very little bad. Some games are bad because they have very little good. Fate is one of those cases when a game has a lot of good and a lot of bad. They're usually divisive, because you may or may not be able to get over the bad to enjoy the good.

>>19978705
>I'd actually really appreciate gamepad support
I, too, frankly. You can set up XPadder if a VN doesn't have it.

>>19949957
You can thank the CIA for that. See: https://www.chronicle.com/article/How-Iowa-Flattened-Literature/144531/
for just one example.

>>19987618
The CIA surprisingly keep feeding my hatred towards it despite me thinking I can’t hate something enough.

>>19978705
>>19986867
Huh, I was always under the impression that almost nobody used gameads. I myself prefer visual novels that only require the mouse (click to advance, right click to open menu, etc.). Then I can just lay on the couch and use my wireless mouse as a remote control.

>>19987618
>>19987677
How do we get the CIA to sponsor VNs?

>>19988643
First wr convince a communist nation that the world's youth is interested in anime, and get them to personally fund it (including vns) while also sliding in communisy ideaology to try and lure them in. Then, we tell the CIA about this grand plan, sit back, and watch them take care of the rest.

>>19989615
Would China count? They are already creating anime-inspired content, though it is not particularly communist.

Perhaps Juche could be an adequate substitute for communism. In that case step 1 should be to get Best Korea to produce competitive anime and VN content, which may prove challenging. It does suggest an interesting question. If you had to recommend one VN to the Dear Leader, which would you recommend?

>>19949888
I think the times when the VN writer accidentally creates a compelling moment or idea are just as valuable as a piece of classic literature. Perhaps his writing style is clumsy, but when he writes a good moment, character, or simply toys with a interesting concept, he has used literature more correctly than 99% of humans even will understand.

>>19989707
A caveat I would add is that if a VN writer tries to create something compelling over and over again and finally succeeds, as is often the case, you can't call it accidental.

>>19989669
the Rance series

>>19988137
I use a wireless mouse as well and I find clicking a whole bunch of times or scrolling to be a bit obnoxious and imprecise, by comparison to just holding or tapping a button or trigger when I'm playing down. Also makes taking screenshots a little more annoying and I tend to do that a lot. Small things, but it'd be nice to have. I think people'd use them if they had more support since a lot of VNs are on Steam now

>>19991862
>I tend to do that a lot
I can relate to that. I am not actually sure if it isn't a bad habit that distracts me from enjoying the VN, but on the other hand it lets me enjoy shitposting quotes and pictures from it later.

>>19990066
Probably objectively the best choice, but you have to wonder how it would impact Korea's future.

>>19989904
I'd agree with that, yeah. I wouldn't even say accidental, just that I think VN writers tend to have some interesting ideas they let slip in there by accident or otherwise, and they usually end up being truly thought provoking ideas to a much greater extent than most purpose-written philosophy. If only because, it's much more interesting to see an event playing out and view it intellectually than it is to just ponder baseless fluff.

>>19994395
For the best is all I can really say.