/jp/ - Otaku Culture

>>19806119
Just animate Forbidden Scrollery, or Silent Sinner in Blue.

hell yeah, another epic "why doesn't touhou have an ANIME??" thread that we've had hundreds of times

touhou doesn't need "saving" and certainly not by the likes of you

>>19806211
It needs saving, you just refuse to admit it.

>official 2hu anime?
No.

my question is, if everybody forgets about touhou project, will touhou project banish itself to gensokyo?

>19806119
Nice bait.

>>19806119
Touhous should die and be replaced by something else. Too much of the doujin world has revolved around it for too long.

If toho is reclining why worry? Maybe real worry is ships' decline, and that we manage it better?

>>19806599

Saving from what?

>>19807354
>Maybe real worry is ships' decline, and that we manage it better?
Kantai collection is here to stay. They give a rather insightful view of how Japan thinks of WW2

>>19807457
>attacks pearl harbour
>gets wrecked by #1 navy and then nuked

sasuga nippon

>>19807457
And how would that be?

>>19806119
Get a actually decent fanbase that doesn't consist of shitty waifufags taht don't actually like the characters they obsess over. Touhou could become popular and well liked as a actual fantasy story, but not with the fanbase and reputation it currently has.

>>19806747
>will touhou project banish itself to gensokyo?
We have to go deeper.

That "Touhou is declining" schtick is older than this board.

I think I'll start worrying about the series' long-term prospects when threads like this one cease appearing.

>>19807784
>Touhou could become popular
Nice meme.

>>19806119
Because popularity is clearly why ZUN started doing this in the first place.

>>19808031
It's not a meme, you fool. Touhou is filled with good ideas, in the hands of a talented and ambitious storyteller it could be a massive fantasy franchise.

>>19808161
Touhou is already very popular, you dumbfuck. That's what I meant. And it shouldn't get more popular than this. The Touhou fans don't give a shit about making good storytelling, they just want to have fun and enjoy pretty girls.
Kill yourself out of this board.

>>19808194
>The Touhou fans don't give a shit about making good storytelling, they just want to have fun and enjoy pretty girls.
What you mean is that they don't actually give a fuck about Touhou, they just want to use the designs and broad outlines of the characters as a means of implementing their own creepy wish fulfillment fantasies. I say those people should all fuck off, and be replaced with fans that actually like the lore and the characters.

>>19808200
Isn't that pretty what all doujin artists do, you idiot? Go complain more, tell them what to do.
If anything, hardcore fans who tell people how to enjoy things should remove themselves from life.

This thread seems familiar somehow...

>>19808207
>Isn't that pretty what all doujin artists do, you idiot?
No. Some doujin artists actually try to represent characters and Gensokyo like they are in canon. I call those people "good doujin artists".

>If anything, hardcore fans who tell people how to enjoy things should remove themselves from life.
Actually, the more of those people are around to tell whiny wish fulfillment crybabies that don't actually like Touhou to fuck off. The healthier the fandom is going to be.

>>19808223

>>19808236
There is a difference between the occasional fun speculation, which you people all hate anyway, and flat out ignoring canon to turn Touhou into something it's not.

>>19806119
How do we make yuyu boobies bigger?!!?

>>19808223

You're so fucking clueless

>>19808411
The only without a clue is you. Otherwise, you might have actually have actually made a argument.

>>19806119
Popularity =/= Quality

The descent into obscurity will be slow and gradual, probably too slow and gradual to notice. It's a part of internet and convention subcultures for a good part of their respective histories, and is unlikely to fade with much notice.
While the music and the doujin works may more quickly cease to be made, what's already out will last a while. Just look at Bad Apple, more than 10 years old and still quite widely known.


>>19807457
Not really.
Here's a 122 page Master's thesis on Japanese perceptions on Kantai Collection.

From the summaries (page 105 specifically)
>Hypothesis 2 stated that as a work not aimed at a specific ideological nichie, Kantai Collection would not take a definite ideological stance regarding historical issues. This was deemed true in section 4.4 : through the split nature of its discourses, Kantai Collection carefully avoids taking a definite ideological stance regarding history. This unwillingness is correlated with the split nature of national memory, though causation cannot be shown.
>Hypothesis 3 stated that similar to the previous, the audience would also not take such stances. This was considered in section 5.2.5 , and deemed proven in a qualified sense. In a strict interpretation, no explicit commentary on the representation of war and history in the original works was observed, and therefore the hypothesis was falsified. But in a wider sense, several works contained implied criticism of themes such as militaristic states, while expressing sympathy for the victims of warfare.

https://helda.helsinki.fi/bitstream/handle/10138/229753/Vuorikoski_Valtteri_Pro gradu_2017.pdf

Also, you should get yourself checked if you think that cute girls doing mostly cute things with a bit of naval battle ice-skating sprinkled in between is comparable to the activities of a literal 50,000T steel and concrete vessel manned by strictly trained guys who pass their time lifting at the gym.

>>19808554
Did touhou have an existential crisis?

>>19808494
>Master's thesis
what the fuck? Who the hell decides analyzing a weeb gacha game is enough for a thesis? Who even gives a fuck or cares? And what kind of shitty institution lets students get away with it as valid education? Last but not least, how the hell do you even know about this, down to the specifics? You're most likely the author aren't you

>>19808494
Didn't like in the Anime, the ship girls used IJN naval plans that were used against America? Operation FS comes to mind, I know they're others as well that they use. How is that not taking a stance.

>>19808621
I mean. It's Sweden thesis. What did you expect?

>>19808373
And when have people done that, you fucking idiot? I'm talking about mindless fun. What do you care if people want to turn Junko into a sex craving beast? What do you care if people make fun of Eiki by exaggerating her lectures well into caricature levels?
Even official works don't manage to agree precisely on Reimu's character, hence the famous "CRIMSON SLASHER" meme that goes around
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlBRGXEZFmI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wFDWP5JwSM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOKfaD7cSdE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVtTNN8jJXU
It's all out of canon memes. Let people have fun and stop being such a "MUH CANON ONLY" idiot. Thank you.

You lmade the same thread with the same Yuyuko animation less than two months ago.
>>/jp/thread/S19422997
Fucking kill yourself. Most everyone in that thread told you exactly what most everyone will tell you this thread: ZUN will never fucking allow an anime. If there, in some alternate universe, were an anime then it would obviously be adapted from the official games or manga. If you want a false speculation circlejerk go to Reddit or MoTK. Kill yourself out of /jp/. Take your schizophrenia somehwere else. This is not your shitting grounds.

>>19808669
Christ

Touhou is still getting a ton of art, 3D animations and music pretty much daily

>>19807457
Azure Lane has way better designs and gameplay though.

>>19806119
>How do we save Touhou
We make other franchises fail.

>>19808842
I'd like it if shitposters would stop using Yuyuko-sama for their shitposting. I don't want any bad association.

I made that webm too long I didn't even realize there was a Reimu frame till anon pointed it out.

Touhou is as popular as it needs too be. There seems too be this belief among some people that if you aren't the top dog then you're irrelevant. This simply isn't the case. It has managed too maintain top 5 at Comiket for so long and has actually been on more of a plateau than a decline, with small up and downs for years. Its still insanely popular and gets more content than you could ever keep up with. If numbers are what you care about, they should speak for themselves.
Touhou isn't dying, it just isn't the queen anymore. I literally see people all the time who are asking about how too get into the series and we already know that the younger generation in Japan has taken a keen interest too the series.
Touhou isn't going anywhere, it isn't declining, it wont be replaced, and it doesn't need an anime. Stop making this thread.

>>19808698
I think a bigger implication is that there are different versions of the same 2hus. The 'dream' versions of characters in 15.5 and 16.5 were much more rude and honest with their feelings, but doesn't this tell us that even in canon there isn't one set characterization for any one 2hu (except Doremy, always Doremy, always smug)

>>19808698
>And when have people done that, you fucking idiot?
Constantly, at the detriment of everything else. Both on this board, this site, and the fanbase as a whole. I can say, without any doubt in my mind, that 90% of this people in this very thread don't actually like Touhou. Like, complaining that I only want Canon is nonsense when 99% of the posts have nothing to do whatsoever with canon.

>>19810431
There is a difference between interpreting a character in different ways. And ignoring everything established about them for the sake of fetishizing them.

>>19808661
Pretty much,

Reminder TH16 made ZUN more money than any other game. Say something nice about Okina, who blessed Jun'ya with success.

>>19813008
Okina's (Matarajin's) aspect, Daikokuten, the god of wealth, has blessed ZUN. Praise Matarajin! Praise Okina!

>>19809420
> Azur Lane
> Better designs

Loli battleships and carriers? That's shit design to me.

Make a mobage and become the FGO killer.

Haven't we had this exact same thread, with the exact same OP like 2 months ago?

>>19814305
No

>>19814305
I ask myself that whenever I see shit threads like this.

>>19806119
Kancolle was about to replace it but Kadokawa happened. Kemono Friends was about to replace it but Kadokawa happened.

FGO is not replacing it no matter how hard it tries.

>>19810431
Their dream selves are their true self

>>19806119
A racing game.

>>19807457
>represent asian race
>fucking rounded eyes

>>19808460
This. Fucking this. Nothing good will happen if plebs try touhou.

>>19807457
>represent the asian races
>fucking rounded eyes
>western clothes

Support maikaze. Buy their DVDs so that their fan anime can save Gensokyo from being destroyed!

>>19818994
who are you quoting?

>>19819317
Read the speech on the other picture.

>>19818310
I never thought of KF as a replacement, just another great thing.

I never liked any other "contender" cause they tend to just be blatant cash grabs. KF was INTENDED to be that, and is now, but it wasn't for one glorious, brief moment.

>>19819456
I can't find those lines man

>>19819004
>maikaze
Fuck that, I'd rather support Kyoto Fantasy Troupe.

>>19808200
>lore and the characters.
Found the secondary. Try playing the games some time

>>19806119
That's up to Japan now. The Burger and Russian communities have done all we can, up to an including lobotomizing /bant/ and an entire chan to host Cirno's fanclub. If you want to know what you can do personally to ensure that more people know about Touhou, you should be encouraging to more members of the fandom instead of trying to shoo them out. Educate them on why they should really stick to Touhou now that they have an interest in it, and they'll tell their friends, too!

And since ZUN doesn't listen to his fans' unput, you can't say that they'll ruin the series no matter how low quality they are.

>>19820223

>>19821118
I think i saw the cirno chan link a while a go but I remember only getting a blank white screen
I don't remember the URL anymore

>>19821326
Disregard name please

>>19808669
TIL Helsinki is a Swedish city

>>19813755
>Loli
>That's shit design to me.
Have you tried acquiring taste?

>>19808200
>>19810661
Anon, you're mostly alone on this. Not only here, but most likely in the entire world. There's nobody within the entirety of the Touhou fandom that spergs about how other people ruin Touhou's reputation by having fun while interpreting them wrong, neither in the Western nor Eastern fanbase. I haven't even seen those who've lunatic NMNB cleared the games and bought ZUN's CDs and books make these complaints. Not even ZUN himself, who sang parts of "Help me, ERINNNNNN!!" with beatMARIO, celebrated the 20th anniversary of Touhou with doujin artists such as IOSYS, and hired manga artists who make yuribait doujins of his characters, dislike the very things you complain about. He acknowledges these people as genuine fans. Even the people who make meme interpretations of the characters most likely loved his works, considering plenty of memes and fanmade personalities came from reading a small bit of detail with a great deal of humor. For example Cirno's relation to 9 didn't come out of nowhere, they saw ZUN's joke on PofV's instruction manual and embraced it. Sanae being a bully was an exaggerated take on her UFO dialogue and exacerbated by her insulting Hecatia. Many of these doujin artists also show off pictures of their copy of the official manga and CDs. You have no claim that these people don't give a fuck about Touhou just because they make things that don't fit the canon, something which happens within every other Japanese fanbase of a franchise with an unrealistic setting.

As for there being too little serious discussion, official releases are too few and far between to warrant constant speculations and real discussions, so it only happens within a few months after a major release, and a few days when it comes to manga chapters. There's no discussion board that could survive for more than a few years if all it allowed was discussion of Touhou canon. If the fanbase allowed only discussion about canon, /jp/ might have not existed, neither would the Touhou boards on 2chan, NND might have had less of a chance of surviving this long, you might as well have removed a huge chunk of late 2000s Japanese internet history and culture.
>complaining that I only want Canon is nonsense
Nobody's talking about cameras here.

>>19807784
>Touhou could become popular and well liked as a actual fantasy story, but not with the fanbase and reputation it currently has.
Ah, the fanbase famous for making different kinds of fanworks and considerably more non-H doujins than other large fanbases, what a degenerate and pathetic group they are. I bet kids today won't ever touch Touhou because of them.

>>19822351
I have already acquired one, anon, thank you. Still, Kancolle is at least consistent in its designs. Lolis are smaller ships, normal girls are battleships, cruisers, carriers, etc.

I dropped Azur Lane shortly after seeing how inconsistent and messed up are some of its designs. Belfast and Akagi are majestic, though.

Anyways, this is a touhou thread, so I'll stfu.

>Wanting things you like to be popular
What's wrong with you? Surely you've learned better by now?

>>19822974
It's either a newfag or an extremely delusional newfag that knows not a single thing he is saying.

>>19806119
More Gachimuchi

>>19806119
Get rid of self-important sperglords like >>19807784 and the grimsokyo faggot, assuming for the moment that they aren't the same person.

>>19820527
Why?

>>19824718
Grimsokyofag has become our zeta-poster, hasn't he?
also, sage, shit thread

>>19807784
>that don't actually like the characters they obssess over
Speak for yourself. Wanting to have weird wish fulfillment wank over your favorite character(s) doesn't cancel out loving them as well, it's possible to keep them separate, and even if you don't, one doesn't diminish the other, you can fetishize and genuinely love/care for your character. Waifufaggotry means both "dutch wife" and "surrogate girlfriend" for a reason.
>so it can be liked as an actual fantasy story
So basically you want to remove all the magical realm content and cease all porn/doujin production to appease old critic-type people? Why? If they aren't adult enough to handle 2hu and it's fandom without being disgusted by "it's absolute degeneracy that I, me, am morally above. I, me, am superior to these horrible, awful degenerate otaku, those disgusting perverse deviant manchildren", then why should they be catered to?

>>19825253
>So basically you want to remove all the magical realm content and cease all porn/doujin production to appease old critic-type people? Why? If they aren't adult enough to handle 2hu and it's fandom without being disgusted by "it's absolute degeneracy that I, me, am morally above. I, me, am superior to these horrible, awful degenerate otaku, those disgusting perverse deviant manchildren", then why should they be catered to?
Oh lookie here. A simple paragraph that sums up every little issue with faggots catering to sjw retards.
Sorry to be off topic but this shit is a prime example of why you shouldn't back down to anyone.
Do what you fucking want. People will deal with it whether or not they like it.
DoA6 seems to be removing fanservice, to which I only have to say suck my cock dude. That series is gonna tank. People play that game for one -simple- reason. Removing it removes any reason to play said game.
Removing what makes the touhou fandom the touhou fandom means to have no touhou fandom.

>>19807784
What do you want? To be able to tell yourself how cultured you are for being a Touhou fan? Ridiculous, let people enjoy things.
Touhou works like it does because ZUN has the integrity to not let greed and appeasing the loudest fans take priority over his own feelings (well, maybe a little, i'm looking at you tanned cirno).

>>19825896
What the fuck are you talking about? There was no huge demand for tanned Cirno, it happened because ZUN probably thought it was funny.

>>19818994
Japan was the only nation strong enough to liberate Asian from Oppressive European Rule

>>19825253
>Waifufaggotry means both "dutch wife" and "surrogate girlfriend" for a reason.
Both are bad, at least in the context of a series like Touhou which has no romance or characters that could serve as either a "dutch wife" or a "surrogate girlfriend". In fact, I can say without any doubt that Touhou is one of the least romantic or sexy video game franchises. Even Mario has more sexual undertones and romance than Touhou.

Now, most people would simply accept that and move on towards something that's more receptive to their desires. But Touhou fans, at least the bad kind, will move heaven and earth to turn Touhou into something it's not. And will force any character they "like" into the mold of "dutch wife" and "surrogate girlfriend", canon be damned.

>So basically you want to remove all the magical realm content and cease all porn/doujin production to appease old critic-type people?
No. What I want is for the Touhou fanbase to not be known as a bunch of creeps, perverts, and pedophiles. Which at the moment, at least in the west, they very much are. So that people that just want a decent fantasy story might get into Touhou.

>>19825896
>Ridiculous, let people enjoy things.
If people actually enjoyed Touhou for what it is. Rather than making it something it's not. Then I could be willing to do that.

>>19828448
>has no romance or characters that could serve as either
Every (or almost every) 2hu girl is perfectly capable and compatible with both, even if you were to do the strictest interpretation, what the hell are you on?
>least romantic and sexy
The characters don't have be dressed in battle lingerie and taking part in romance drama to be capable of either, or compatible and fitting for either.
>even mario
princess peach isn't really that good looking and has a shitty personality, low-quality waif-material. Having more sexual undertones and romance? Sure.
>most people would accept that and move on to something more receptive
Well, they haven't, and won't, and don't pretend that any other fandom or fanbase doesn't do the same thing with that or any other thing that isn't native to the work.
>will move heaven and earth...
>canon be damned
Black Tewi, there are as many Gensokyos as there are people to imagine it, the canon serves as a basis, and you can magical realm it while conforming to canon, you just fill in the blanks and slopes with either your own interpretation of the given subject, or something that fits in the absence of further explanation. Gensokyo is magical realm by it's very nature, and waif-candidates go hand in hand with that, and the characters are definitely waif-material.
>the touhou fanbase to not be known as creeps, perverts, and pedophiles
Why is that a bad thing? Who is being hurt by that? You? How? Why? There's plenty of other decent fantasy stories, and plenty of them hit a scale and depth that 2hu can't rival, and those are probably more to the interests of people just looking for a decent fantasy story, not a magical realm of cute girls who fight using harmless magic bullets that was created by a pencil-thin alcoholic nerd. Honestly, the creeps, pervs, and pedophiles that infest 2hu and places like /jp/ seem a lot nicer, mellow, and open-minded than the people you would want to replace them. You do realize that everyone knows who you are and what threads you habit by how you type? There's not very many people who browse /jp/ on an 1890s telegraph.

>>19806119
Both Touhou and KanColle are dying.

>>19818994
Most of the girls in KanColle are fucking generic and trash.
Takao-class, Kumano-class, most of the destroyers, most of the submarine and Kashima.

>>19828448
>Even Mario has more sexual undertones and romance than Touhou.
Are you serious? If it wasn't for Bowser Jr, one would think reproduction doesn't even exist in the Mario world. Meanwhile, we have a bunch of 2hus that have fucked and that we know have fucked.

>>19808621
>Kancolle
>weeb game
It's a Japanese game. By definition it can't be weeb. Why does nobody here know basic things like this?

>>19828985
Posters that make arguments like that aren't from /jp/.
They are crossies and not native to the board.

>>19828793
>Meanwhile, we have a bunch of 2hus that have fucked and that we know have fucked.
Citation needed.

>>19830389
Junko's son came from somewhere

>>19830389
Fucking Seiga?

>>19828649
>Every (or almost every) 2hu girl is perfectly capable and compatible with both,
They are genuinely unsuited to either roll, and anybody that actually likes the lore would realize that. Most of them are literal inhuman monsters with zero visible interest in romance or sex, let alone romance and sex with a Human. And they are not wife material, anon. There is nothing about any of their personalities, lifestyles, or mannerisms that makes them wife material. The fact that you, and countless other people, somehow deluded yourself into thinking that they are doesn't change the characters canon personality.

>and don't pretend that any other fandom or fanbase doesn't do the same thing with that or any other thing that isn't native to the work.
I won't. But in most of those fandoms, such fans are a shunned minority rather than a incredibly vocal majority.

>Black Tewi, there are as many Gensokyos as there are people to imagine it,
Oh, stuff it with your Black Tewi nonsense. Gensokyo's lore is occasionally vague and ambiguous, but there's a difference between filling the deliberately empty blanks and just flat out ignoring canon so you can turn Gensokyo into your own personal wish fulfillment fantasy.

>Why is that a bad thing? Who is being hurt by that? You? How? Why?
It's bad because the people I mentioned are horrible. There is nothing nice, mellow, or open minded about them. They are pathetic whiny privileged elitist scum, the only reason why I can't bring myself to despise them is because they are genuinely not worth the mental effort that would take. And it wasn't always like that, once upon a time I genuinely liked and admired the Touhou fanbase. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised that sensible normal people left about a decade ago, but it still frustrates me just how far this fanbase has fallen.

>You do realize that everyone knows who you are and what threads you habit by how you type? There's not very many people who browse /jp/ on an 1890s telegraph.
That people are obsessed enough with me that they can detect, or at least that they think they can detect, my writing is just more proof that most of the Touhou fanbase is ireedambly bad.

>>19828793
There are literally only two confirmed mothers in Touhou. Even if you define sexual undertones and Romance as "parents exist", Mario still wins.

>>19830729
>just flat out ignoring canon so you can turn Gensokyo into your own personal wish fulfillment fantasy.
ZUN flat-out ignores the "canon" of reality in order to turn Gensokyo into his personal wish fulfillment fantasy (was Prince Shotoku ACTUALLY a girl?), and has no problem with people doing the same to Gensokyo.

>It's bad because the people I mentioned are horrible.
The singular worst "fan" in the Touhou fanbase is you, because you spend your time shitting on all other fans and ZUN himself like it's a full-time job.

>>19830468
Seiga is pure.

>>19830759
That's not what ZUN did, you imbecile. He never positioned Gensokyo as any kind of wish fulfillment fantasy, let alone his own. This is exactly the kind of delusion i'm talking about.

Btw, I also got nothing against the guy. I think there is more he could with Touhou, but I do still respect, if not downright admire, him.

>>19830792
Pure shit.

>>19830792
Pure sex.

shit fucking thread. Touhou isn't in danger of dying any time soon nor does it need "saving", much less from the likes of either of these crossboarding fags >>19824718

>>19830819
>That's not what ZUN did, you imbecile. He never positioned Gensokyo as any kind of wish fulfillment fantasy, let alone his own. This is exactly the kind of delusion i'm talking about.
I saw you go to town on Black Tewi and assumed you were one of those incredible "canon-only" faggots who lashes out at anything any doujin author every presumed to create that deviated from canon in any way. Touhou's not self-insert wish-fulfillment garbage but he still fills it with the kinds of things he likes.

As for your obsession with the "inhuman monsters" of Touhou, ZUN is on the record as referring to the characters of Touhou as ordinary girls in an extraordinary environment and Iku's Symposium article indicates that non-humans can do the wife thing as well if they so choose.

>>19830860
"Crossboarder" as an epithet was a term imported to /jp/ by faggots from /a/ in the year 2012.

>>19830819
>That's not what ZUN did, you imbecile. He never positioned Gensokyo as any kind of wish fulfillment fantasy, let alone his own. This is exactly the kind of delusion i'm talking about.
I saw you go to town on Black Tewi and assumed you were one of those incredible "canon-only" faggots who lashes out at anything any doujin author every presumed to create that deviated from canon in any way. Touhou's not self-insert wish-fulfillment garbage but he still fills it with the kinds of things he likes.

As for your obsession with the "inhuman monsters" of Touhou, ZUN is on the record as referring to the characters of Touhou as ordinary girls in an extraordinary environment and Iku's Symposium article indicates that non-humans can do the wife thing as well if they so choose.

>>19830941
>I saw you go to town on Black Tewi and assumed you were one of those incredible "canon-only" faggots who lashes out at anything any doujin author every presumed to create that deviated from canon in any way.
I dislike it when people downright contradict canon. But going in a different direction with a idea or filling in the blanks is totally fine.

>Touhou's not self-insert wish-fulfillment garbage but he still fills it with the kinds of things he likes.
And? Most authors do that, often without even thinking about it. It doesn't justify flat out ignoring what Gensokyo is in favour of making it something you want it to be.

>As for your obsession with the "inhuman monsters" of Touhou, ZUN is on the record as referring to the characters of Touhou as ordinary girls in an extraordinary environment
Do you have a source for that claim?

>and Iku's Symposium article indicates that non-humans can do the wife thing as well if they so choose.
Have you actually read that article? There is absolutely nothing romantic about it, and it downright encourages the reader not to start a relationship with the non human for very good reasons.

>>19806119
There is one way...

>>19830976
>I dislike it when people downright contradict canon.
Doujin artists no more wrong ZUN when ignoring parts of canon Gensokyo than ZUN disrespects reality by ignoring parts of the real world when creating his story.

>Do you have a source for that claim?
Ｑ．「幻想郷」少女達の日常
Ａ．東方は、幻想郷に棲んでいる一部の集団の日常の断片です。いつも言っている事ですが、環境こそ違うも彼女達は普通なんですよ。
https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/ZUN%27s_reply_to_messages_on_the_former_Gensou_Bulletin_Board_3

>Have you actually read that article? There is absolutely nothing romantic about it
It's no more inherently unromantic than the way dating works IRL.

>>19830389
Aya.
She's a thousand years old, she's bound to have a child or two in her life.

>>19831005
>Doujin artists no more wrong ZUN when ignoring parts of canon Gensokyo than ZUN disrespects reality by ignoring parts of the real world when creating his story.
Those two situations are incomparable. One is a guy creating a fictional setting based on the real world, making sure that nothing in that setting contradicts our own perception of history and the world. And the other is a fan fic writer ignoring established canon facts so he can fantasize about living a idealised life in Gensokyo.

>https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/ZUN%27s_reply_to_messages_on_the_former_Gensou_Bulletin_Board_3
I read that quote, and it's pretty obvious to me that he was just talking about Reimu and Marisa, not the Youkai, Demons, and Vampires they fight.

>It's no more inherently unromantic than the way dating works IRL.
Why, aren't you mister cynical? I don't have the highest opinion of marriage myself, but even I know it's not nearly as shitty or horrible as what the celestial maidens are trying to pull.

>>19830389
The Watatsukis.

>>19831080
Do you have actual canon evidence that she has fucked somebody though?

>>19831091
>And the other is a fan fic writer ignoring established canon facts
It is canon, IRL, that Prince Shotoku was a man. ZUN ignores canon historical facts to do whatever he wants. It's fiction. If you want to get mad about some kinds of fiction but not others that's up to you but don't expect anyone else to go along with it (let alone set up it up as an expectations that all others need to follow.)

ZUN himself gets along just fine with people who produce non-canon work so getting mad about it on his behalf is just retarded. He even publishes such non-canon work in official Touhou publications (where they remain canon because they are marked as such).

>I read that quote, and it's pretty obvious to me that he was just talking about Reimu and Marisa, not the Youkai, Demons, and Vampires they fight.
It's embedded in an entire section about how all the girls in Gensokyo are just playing around. 彼女達 is used later to explicitly refer to a group that includes opponent characters as well: 「だから、あれは彼女達のゲームなんです。」Youkai characters, too, participate in everyday lie activities like tea parties and festivals of the boring variety.

>Why, aren't you mister cynical? I don't have the highest opinion of marriage myself, but even I know it's not nearly as shitty or horrible as what the celestial maidens are trying to pull.
They're trying to guilt-trip men into marrying them. Bad? Sure. Everyone agrees it's not great. It still establishes that non-humans in Gensokyo are still capable of wanting to get married and presumably the whole nine yards.

>>19831091
>And the other is a fan fic writer ignoring established canon facts
It is canon, IRL, that Prince Shotoku was a man. ZUN ignores canon historical facts to do whatever he wants. It's fiction. If you want to get mad about some kinds of fiction but not others that's up to you but don't expect anyone else to go along with it (let alone set up it up as an expectations that all others need to follow.)

ZUN himself gets along just fine with people who produce non-canon work so getting mad about it on his behalf is just retarded. He even publishes such non-canon work in official Touhou publications (where they, of course, remain non-canon).

>I read that quote, and it's pretty obvious to me that he was just talking about Reimu and Marisa, not the Youkai, Demons, and Vampires they fight.
It's embedded in an entire section about how all the girls in Gensokyo are just playing around. 彼女達 is used later to explicitly refer to a group that includes opponent characters as well: 「だから、あれは彼女達のゲームなんです。」Youkai characters, too, participate in everyday like activities like tea parties and festivals of the boring variety.

>Why, aren't you mister cynical? I don't have the highest opinion of marriage myself, but even I know it's not nearly as shitty or horrible as what the celestial maidens are trying to pull.
They're trying to guilt-trip men into marrying them. Bad? Sure. Everyone agrees it's not great. But not utterly unconscionable, and it still establishes that non-humans in Gensokyo are still capable of wanting to get married and presumably the whole nine yards.

>>19830990
Touhou collab written by ZUN when?
That would be the final nail to GBF

>>19806119
The next Touhou Manga Artist should be Space Jin. That will draw a large crowd

>>19830990
Bros....

>>19831833
The next Touhou Manga Artist should be go fucking kill yourself and take your godforsaken fetishes to hell with you.

>>19806119
>Soon it would be replace with something that's soulless and awful.
It already has.
Kill all the boats if you want to save Touhou.

>>19831860
CBT is the Future.

>>19831763
but if anything would get a touhou collab it sure would be GBF

>>19806119
this is yuyuko reaction as i unzip my magnum dong

>>19806119
>>19807784
>>19808161
touhou is already wildly popular and isnt in trouble at all. a mainline stg, fighter, and spinoff stg have all been released in the last two years. its comiket numbers are good and stable. reitaisai is as strong as ever. there is still tons of fan content, doujin music and art, even if the internet has moved away from churning out nico videos.

>>19828448
>If people actually enjoyed Touhou for what it is. Rather than making it something it's not. Then I could be willing to do that.
crying this hard on /jp/, a very small section of the western scene, about how people aren't enjoying touhou the way you want them to isn't going to stop doujin artists from drawing sanae taking fat cocks in all holes.

the idea that it "if only you got rid of all this degeneracy it could be popular with just fantasy fans" is laughable. the touhou fanbase in both the east and west was always incredibly autistic and full of memespouting retards and people in it to jack off. youd get even more porn content if it was more popular. look at what FATE has become. you think people weren't drawing a fuckton of porn at MoF's peak?

you just want the entire culture of touhou to be shaped to your own personal desires. it will never be that especially as ZUN encourages doujin culture, even refusing to do things like make an "official" anime because he doesnt want people to think there are "official" voices and ruin the image in their head. this is ZUN's creation and if you don't like the direction it's been taken in then tough shit. he doesn't have to cater to you nor is there any obligation for doujin creators to stop what they're doing because you cry loudly. this guy said it right >>19825253

now fuck off, delusional faggot. youve made and responded to multiple threads about this shit. your posting is extremely obvious and people are sick of you. go tell the /vg/ general, maybe they will care.

>>19830792
Pure evil.

>>19831930
This

the reason most public touhou communities suck (or maybe just the /jp/ touhou community) is because it's got three kinds of people in it:

1. people who think exclusively with their dicks
2. elitists who feel the need to dictate to everyone the correct way to be a touhou fan
3. everyone else

and since everyone else does their best to interact with the other two as little as possible, most of them end up retreating away from all non-event discussion, leaving the everyday discussion to be populated entirely by garbage

>>19831151
Oh, how naive of you.

>>19831091
>Why, aren't you mister cynical? I don't have the highest opinion of marriage myself, but even I know it's not nearly as shitty or horrible as what the celestial maidens are trying to pull.
Holy shit. Iku!

>The original legend ends with the heavenly maiden finding the hidden veil and returning to the heaven, leaving her children and husband. Maybe the heavenly maidens intend to return to heaven whenever they become bored of the life on surface, but that would just be heartless.
Looking at Tenko, this miiiight be something they would do. Maybe.

>However, I heard that very rarely these veils will be found for sale at the Kappa's bazaar or an antique store suspected to deal in stolen goods. They would likely be impossible for a collector to pass up. If a human sells the veil before the maiden can get to him, he'll be the clever one in that situation.

>>19832330
Fine.
Fine.
I'll talk more when my toaster starts working again.

>>19832532
Would You do such a thing

>>19832532
Would Iku do such a thing

>>19831194
> ZUN ignores canon historical facts to do whatever he wants.
Again, one is a creator coming up with his own fictional setting based on the real world. And the other is a fanfic writer spitting on the work of the creator for arbitrary and shallow reasons.

I'm not mad on ZUN's behalf, by the way. I'm mad about the shitty state of the Touhou fanbase and "the discourse".

>It's embedded in an entire section about how all the girls in Gensokyo are just playing around.
I've read that entire section, and I don't see anything to imply that the Youkai girls are ordinary. They aren't written "ordinary" in either the games or the print work anyway.

>But not utterly unconscionable, and it still establishes that non-humans in Gensokyo are still capable of wanting to get married and presumably the whole nine yards.
The only thing it establishes is that faceless celestial maidens might be willing to marry people for incredibly shallow reasons, and you should ignore them at all cost. It doesn't say anything about Youkai, the characters people actually care about, or trends in Gensokyo on a whole. And the main takeaway from the whole thing is that marrying supernatural creatures is bad.

>>19832198
I don't give a fuck if people make Touhou porn, get that through your thick stupid skull. My problem is not the fact that smut exists, it's the way most of the fandom just flat out ignores the established lore and characters to turn Touhou into something it's new. It doesn't matter if they do that with hardcore porn, romantic stories, or weird wish fulfillment posts, all of it is a disease that needs to be cured before it kills the body.

>now fuck off,
No. You stupid, intellectual, coward. The only reason I don't loathe people like you is because you are genuinely too pathetic, and there's nothing I could do to you that you haven't already done to yourself. Go obsesses over a franchise that actually deserves scum like you around.

>>19832330
Pretty much, yeah.

>>19832529
>More nonsensical delusion.
Like I said, a disease that needs to be cured at all cost.

>>19833462
*it's the way most of the fandom just flat out ignores the established lore and characters to turn Touhou into something it's not.

>>19833431
>And the other is a fanfic writer spitting on the work of the creator for arbitrary and shallow reasons.
This is a distinction without a difference. Both involve contradicting things that are "true" to tell the story that you wanted to tell. ZUN doesn't consider it spitting on his work. The people you think are arbitrary and shallow he invites to collaborate with him and gets along well with.

For you to shit on what ZUN is fine with is literally nothing other than self-satisfaction on your part.

>I've read that entire section, and I don't see anything to imply that
彼女達 is used to refer to Touhou characters in general in the section. There is no need for me to find an "implication" that the word is being used the same way. The burden of proof is on you to show that it doesn't say what it says.

>They aren't written "ordinary" in either the games or the print work anyway.
SaBND is almost all SoL shit. SSiB pretends to have a plot but is also approximately 90% that way. In the vast majority of the print works youkai characters behave much like people.

But hey, let's once again ignore completely what ZUN actually thinks and substitute your interpretation instead.

>>19833462
>Pretty much, yeah
You're the living embodiment of 2.

>>19833523
The difference between the two actions is the intent, context, and result. And stop presuming ZUN is totally okay with it because he published a few scraps of non canon gag comics. The protagonist of his last game is a deliberately obnoxious parody of bad Touhou fans. Just because he doesn't put a stop to it doesn't mean he actually likes it.

I don't need to translate Japanese quotes to find any proof. Here is the full sentence and question in context:
>Q: "Gensokyo" The daily life of the girls
>A: Touhou is a fragment of the daily life of a part of the group that live in Gensokyo. It is something I have always said, but even when the circumstances are different for sure, the girls are assuredly ordinary.
He's talking about the daily life of a PART of the group (the protagonists) that live in Gensokyo and that THOSE girls are assuredly ordinary.

Unless you live in a mental war, I don't know how you think any of the Youkai characters act "normal" in the print works. All of them are either fucking insane, inhuman in a very "fair folk" kind of way, or literal monsters.

>You're the living embodiment of 2.
I don't dictate how people should be a Touhou fan, I just want a certain type of fan gone so that more people can get into Touhou. Which I wouldn't call very elitist.

>>19831957
So who’s the BIGGEREST 2hu?

>>19833773
>The difference between the two actions is the intent, context, and result.
Intent: to create a work based off but not ideal to another universe.
Context: doujin creation.
Result: a creative work of some sort.

>And stop presuming ZUN is totally okay with it because he published a few scraps of non canon gag comics.
We presume ZUN is okay with it because he actively collaborates with these people on both canon and non-canon Touhou work over the course of years, invites them for friendly conversations on his radio program, participates and advertises doujinshi events, and generally does everything in the world indicating that he has no problem with them while you have literally nothing to show that he's not.

>The protagonist of his last game is a deliberately obnoxious parody of bad Touhou fans.
A personal interpretation not shared by, well, anyone, least of all ZUN.

>Just because he doesn't put a stop to it doesn't mean he actually likes it.
He officially endorses it.

>He's talking about the daily life of a PART of the group (the protagonists) that live in Gensokyo and that THOSE girls are assuredly ordinary.
Nothing indicates it's limited to the protagonists. You don't even think Marisa or Reimu are ordinary.

>All of them are either fucking insane, inhuman in a very "fair folk" kind of way, or literal monsters.
Pure projection on your part. SaBND is mostly fun and pranks from everyone involved. What is fucking insane, fair Holi inhuman, or literally monstrous about hosting a garden party or flower viewing?

>I don't dictate how people should be a Touhou fan, I just want a certain type of fan gone
It's the same fucking thing. Only certain kinds of fans being acceptable to you is dictating how people should be fans. You want two-thirds of Reitaisai and official ZUN collaborators burned down so that "more people," mostly jack-off Western fantasy fans capable only of shitting on things, can get into your warped interpretation of Touhou shared by literally nobody else.

Create your own fucking series.

>>19833773 #
>The difference between the two actions is the intent, context, and result.
Intent: to create a work based off but not identical to another universe.
Context: doujin creation.
Result: a creative work of some sort.

>And stop presuming ZUN is totally okay with it because he published a few scraps of non canon gag comics.
We presume ZUN is okay with it because he actively collaborates with these people on both canon and non-canon Touhou work over the course of years, invites them for friendly conversations on his radio program, participates and advertises doujinshi events, and generally does everything in the world indicating that he has no problem with them while you have literally nothing to show that he's not.

>The protagonist of his last game is a deliberately obnoxious parody of bad Touhou fans.
A personal interpretation not shared by, well, anyone, least of all ZUN.

>Just because he doesn't put a stop to it doesn't mean he actually likes it.
He officially endorses it.

>He's talking about the daily life of a PART of the group (the protagonists) that live in Gensokyo and that THOSE girls are assuredly ordinary.
Nothing indicates it's limited to the protagonists. You don't even think Marisa or Reimu are ordinary.

>All of them are either fucking insane, inhuman in a very "fair folk" kind of way, or literal monsters.
Pure projection on your part. SaBND is mostly fun and pranks from everyone involved. What is fucking insane, fair folk inhuman, or literally monstrous about hosting a garden party or flower viewing?

>I don't dictate how people should be a Touhou fan, I just want a certain type of fan gone
It's the same fucking thing. Only certain kinds of fans being acceptable to you is dictating how people should be fans. You want two-thirds of Reitaisai and official ZUN collaborators burned down so that "more people," mostly jack-off Western fantasy fans capable only of shitting on things, can get into your warped interpretation of Touhou shared by literally nobody else.

Create your own fucking series.

>>19833773
Despite the fact that most of the girls are youkai they do behave as ordinarily as possible. Even Reimu acknowledges in WaHH that they're just a bunch of weirdos rather than the actual beasts.
I still don't understand why you cling so hard to Touhou if you clearly want it to be something else. Have you not thought of going to another francise? And I'm not even telling you this because I hate you so much but because I genuinely think you'd be better off with a franchise that caters your taste.

>>19834069
He's not actually reading or playing the same series as the rest of us. He chooses to see something different from literally everyone else in the world.

It's no different from your average conspiracy theorist who looks at the same set of facts, jumps to an absolutely retarded conclusion, then sets out on the Herculean task of saving the world from itself.

>>19834115
How he stretches things to fit his views is hilarious but somewhat worrying.

I just want to point out that in The Untold History of Japanese Developers, ZUN mentions that he actively dislikes shipping shit, which a lot of the fan people he was seen with makes

>>19834046
Intent: Creating an original universe filled with things you find interesting VS Taking the original universe of somebody else and ignoring all of its established lore because you want to fantasize about fucking the characters.
Context: A completely original work VS Basically published fan fiction.
Result: An well regarded franchise of bullet hell games and spin offs VS Unhealthy wish fulfillment fantasies that attract the wrong kind of people to Touhou.

I don't know any examples of ZUN collaborating with somebody that straight up ignores canon. How about actually giving some names?

It's shared by countless non delusional people, almost certainly including the creator. The only reason why you don't realize what kind of a person Sumireko is parodying is because you are one.

Him endorsing fan work is not the same thing as him endorsing certain types or trends in fan work.

The actual quote makes it clear that it's limited to Reimu, Marisa, and maybe Sakuya. There is nothing to indicate he was talking about everybody in Gensokyo, or even just all Youkai.

SaBND is about fairies being weird blue and orange morality childish trickster spirits. Fairies being Fairies is literally the entire joke of that spin off manga.

It's not the same kind of thing. Elitists would imply that I would want less, rather than more, people to get into Touhou.

>>19834069
That most, not all, of the characters are more eccentric weirdos than fear personified is not the same thing as being "ordinary".

And stop acting like I dislike Touhou. Even if I am "wrong" about my view on Gensokyo/Reimu/Youkai/whatever, I do still genuinely enjoy the games and print works. It's the fan base I have a issue with.

>>19835323
The guy is clearly supportive of fanwork, I don't deny that. But that he approves of certain trends I find a bit more doubtful.

>>19836246
>That most, not all, of the characters are more eccentric weirdos than fear personified is not the same thing as being "ordinary".
You claimed
>I don't know how you think any of the Youkai characters act "normal" in the print works. All of them are either fucking insane, inhuman in a very "fair folk" kind of way, or literal monsters.
But they do behave as proper as possible despite being supposed to be human eating monsters.
> It's the fan base I have a issue with.
Then why do you keep coming to the western communities that you seem to have a huge issue with? You're not doing anything other than being annoying and being antagonized by everyone. Don't you think you'd be better off learning japanese and distancing yourself with the community?

>>19836794

>>19836246
fuck OFF grimsokyofag and stop fucking making and derailing threads. go back to /vg/ already.

>>19833773
>I don't dictate how people should be a Touhou fan, I just want a certain type of fan gone
This is the same thing you stupid fucking faggot. Only people who act in accordance with your views are allowed to be Touhou fans.

>>19830729
nobody is "obsessed" with you, you retard. you are extremely obvious when you post because you derail threads to kick and scream about the same shit constantly. it would be stupid to NOT recognize that a person with the same exact writing style and talking points is posting and ruining multiple threads. everyone in your little /vg/ thread always recognized you immediately too. the fact of the matter is YOU are the obsessive loser who thinks constant bitching on /vg/ and now /jp/ will somehow change what people like about Touhou, how people view characters, or stop doujin artists from drawing what they like.

thank god ZUN and the Japanese fanbase will never interact with you or entertain your ideas to turn Touhou into something its not. why don't you go find and discuss an actual western fantasy instead of trying to turn this series into one?

>>19835830
>and ignoring all of its established lore
Rarely does somebody ignore ALL of the established lore. Like ZUN, they pick and choose what parts of the original setting to keep.
>Context: A completely original work VS Basically published fan fiction.
So what? ZUN doesn't have a problem with published fanfiction.
>Result: An well regarded franchise of bullet hell games and spin offs VS Unhealthy wish fulfillment fantasies that attract the wrong kind of people to Touhou.
There are plenty of well-regarded non-canon works. As for "unhealthy" and "wrong", that's literally your opinion. Nothing about it makes the situations "incomparable."

>I don't know any examples of ZUN collaborating with somebody that straight up ignores canon. How about actually giving some names?
Of those people who have been called on to lend their hand to serialized Touhou Project work or official games:

Aki Eda (SSiB Official): Shipping.
Makoto Hirasaka / Clash House (Faeries Official): Shipping; ecchi comedy.
Toshihira Arata (IMIE Official, SCoOW Comic): Shipping; non-canonical liberties in IMIE itself.
Tasogare Frontier: Random, absurdly non-canonical shit like mecha Patchouli.
Chabo (HM Spriter): R18 work.
Haniwa / Haniwa's Store (EoTW Official, SDV Comic, SCoOW Comic): Shipping; gag comedy; fanon.

If you add in officially released non-canon material from BAiJR, SDV, and SCoOW, you have to add groups like Sekken'ya (SCoOW arrange CD, responsible for dozens if not hundreds of idiotic memetic songs), Paranoia Cat (a circle which does R18 work, and whose entry in BAiJR itself features yuri shipping), and Hitori (who did an actual piss-drinking Touhou fanbook). I could probably put in another ten names here at least but I'm not going to search several hundred doujinshi and music CDs searching for the thousandth canonical violation.

>It's shared by countless non delusional people
Find a single one other than yourself.

>The only reason why you don't realize what kind of a person Sumireko is parodying is because you are one.
Sumireko is annoying because she is 1. an instagram user and 2. a modern Japanese high school girl. Without these features she becomes utterly unremarkable. Neither of these are remotely representative of the average Touhou fan in /jp/.

>There is nothing to indicate
The question was about the girls of Gensokyo. The most natural reading of this includes all the characters, who are girls, as the girls of Gensokyo as a term explicitly include antagonist characters. It does mention a subset of the people who live in Gensokyo but that subset is the subset that appears on screen.

>SaBND is about fairies being weird blue and orange morality childish trickster spirits.
This shit like "blue and orange morality" and "inhuman fair folk" do not exist anywhere in Touhou Project. It's all solidly Western philosophical shit never once referenced or suggested by ZUN anywhere in anything. You injected this fanon interpretation into Touhou Project out of whole cloth. When the faeries visit the SDM Remilia is holding a garden party. During new years youkai gather for a perfectly ordinary-looking Japanese festival. When Aya visits the shrine it's to play a practical joke on Reimu for shits and giggles. Nobody could find anything sinister or incomprehensibly inhuman in this unless they set out to look for it as you do.

>Elitists would imply that I would want less
Of the ten thousand people who have chanced to pass the pages of /jp/ in these last ten years, you are the singularly most elitist person in it.

>>19806119
Release a tabletop game.

Shit would be so cash

>>19839450
There is already one fan made out there though. Something something Danmaku Yuugi I think.

>>19830729
>That people are obsessed enough with me that they can detect, or at least that they think they can detect, my writing is just more proof that most of the Touhou fanbase is ireedambly bad.
You can't be doing this on purpose. Are you expecting anyone to take you seriously? Holy shit.

>>19839676
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Touhou_Danmaku_Yuugi_Flowers_RPG
There's a link to an english translated copy in here, it says.

>>19837420
>Rarely does somebody ignore ALL of the established lore. Like ZUN, they pick and choose what parts of the original setting to keep.
They ignore all of the established lore by making Gensokyo into something it's not.

>So what? ZUN doesn't have a problem with published fanfiction.
I never said he did. And that wasn't the point anyway.

>There are plenty of well-regarded non-canon works.
All fanfiction is non canon. What matters is if it deviates or ignores, and with what intention.

>As for "unhealthy" and "wrong", that's literally your opinion.
Nooooo, you think?

>Nothing about it makes the situations "incomparable."
If you can't understand the difference between "Published fanfiction" and "Your own original property" then you are genuinely hopeless. I'm going to play devil's advocate here, and assume that's not the case and you just don't care about the difference. Which I disagree with, but I at least somewhat respect. Death of the author, and all that.

>Of those people who have been called on to lend their hand to serialized Touhou Project work or official games:
That's actually a pretty decent list. However, I don't think any of the examples you mentioned reach the kind of level some artists, and almost everybody on this board, does. The "worst offenders" are shipping, which is usually more of a deviation than flat out ignoring canon, and gag comedies, which I do somewhat begrudgingly admit is acceptable if it's genuinely funny. So, i'll concede on this point, even though I still don't think it should be taken as a endorsement for everything. Like somebody else pointed out, he genuinely dislikes shipping and I get the sneaking suspicion he might be trying to discourage it by making it not a thing in canon.

>Find a single one other than yourself.
People on this site, people on other sites, people I actually know, ZUN.

>Neither of these are remotely representative of the average Touhou fan in /jp/.
Sumireko is annoying because she 1: Is a massive hipster. 2: Is a social outcast because of her own actions, yet blames others. 3: Is obsessed with the supernatural in a childish superficial way. 4: Thinks she's "Different" and "Better" than other people when she very obviously isn't. 5: Views Gensokyo as her own personal playground.

I would say that's pretty representative of your average Touhou fan, at least the annoying ones, both on /jp/ and elsewhere.

>The most natural reading of this includes all the characters, who are girls, as the girls of Gensokyo as a term explicitly include antagonist characters.
>of a part of the group that live in Gensokyo.
>a part.
Wrong.

>This shit like "blue and orange morality" and "inhuman fair folk" do not exist anywhere in Touhou Project. It's all solidly Western philosophical shit never once referenced or suggested by ZUN anywhere in anything.
They are universal concepts that can be applied every easily to Youkai, who run on what can only be described as bizarro logic most of the time.

>Nobody could find anything sinister or incomprehensibly inhuman in this unless they set out to look for it as you do.
The way they behave during all of these events that makes them inhuman, which can take more forms than just "They murder people". I mean, most grown ass woman running newspapers don't go to religious shrines to play pranks on the priests there.

>Of the ten thousand people who have chanced to pass the pages of /jp/ in these last ten years, you are the singularly most elitist person in it.
I'm less elitist than literally anybody who ever used the word secondary or normie unironically.

>>19837121
No.

>>19837138
Nonsense. I actually like disagreement and different interpretations, it's just a certain type of fan and "interpretation" that I think is harmful to this fanbase.

>>19837225
>>19839804
I'm not going to pretend that my writing style isn't pretty recognizable, or that I don't sometimes make the same points. But in between the constant false accusations of other anons, the almost boogeyman nature i've gained just by posting my opinions on Touhou, and your constant failed efforts to chase me away. I do think I am proof of how terrible you people are.

>>19841496
>They ignore all of the established lore by making Gensokyo into something it's not.
That's like saying ZUN ignores all Japanese mythology by making Gensokyo into something that's not Japanese mythology.
>What matters is if it deviates or ignores, and with what intention.
The only "intention" that seems to matter to you is whether you personally like it or not.

>If you can't understand the difference between "Published fanfiction" and "Your own original property"
Everybody knows the difference. Explain why they're "incomparable" or must be evaluated on a different basis.

>I don't think any of the examples you mentioned reach the kind of level some artists
Futa pornography and piss drinking are plenty "high level." What's worse? Like, shit eating? Guro?
>Like somebody else pointed out
Where, and on what basis?

>People on this site, people on other sites, people I actually know, ZUN.
Point me to posts indicating that they believe such. As for ZUN, provide textual evidence from ZUN that can't be explained by you projecting what you think onto him. You project a LOT of shit onto ZUN, such as contempt for half the people he's chosen to work with and invites to his parties, right up until proven otherwise.

>1: Is a massive hipster. 2: Is a social outcast because of her own actions, yet blames others. 3: Is obsessed with the supernatural in a childish superficial way. 4: Thinks she's "Different" and "Better" than other people when she very obviously isn't. 5: Views Gensokyo as her own personal playground.
1, 2, and 4 describe you better than anyone else on this board. As for "childish" interest in the supernatural, there is nothing to have ever - even once - indicated that ZUN does not approve of such. And as for 4, that attitude has been a staple of LN protagonists (who ZUN explicitly compared Sumireko to) since Haruhi.

>They are universal concepts that can be applied every easily to Youkai, who run on what can only be described as bizarro logic most of the time.
You CAN apply them to youkai. Nothing in the text indicates that you should.
>The way they behave during all of these events that makes them inhuman
This is like asking what actions demonstrate their inhumanity, and you answer with "their actions." Identify specific actions indicating incomprehensible inhuman fair folk bizarro logic in, say, SaBND.
>I mean, most grown ass woman running newspapers don't go to religious shrines to play pranks on the priests there.
Touhou Project is literally nothing but girls playing around. Playing around is not "inhuman."

>I'm less elitist than literally anybody who ever used the word secondary or normie unironically.
Shitting on the vast majority of the fanbase for not meeting your expectations is elitist as all fuck.

The claim that you want "more people into Touhou" doesn't even pass the laugh test. You want to expel half of Reitaisai / Comiket from the Touhou Fanbase (several hundred thousand people) for the purpose of getting "more people" into Touhou? Where the fuck are you going to find a hundred thousand Westerners who think like you to become new Touhou Project fans?

>>19841539
Either you're the greatest, most enlightened, most insightful, most knowledgeable Touhou Project fan who ever visited /jp/, or your conception of Touhou Project is complete fucking bananas. It turns out that pretty much everyone thinks its the latter.

Pretty much nobody actually cares what you think of the fanbase on the grounds that you are essentially an insane conspiracy theorist, the Infowars of Touhou Project. People here will argue with you, as people elsewhere argue with conspiracy theorists, but not a single one of them thinks your assessment of anything is worth anything. The fact that people misidentify your particular brand of lunacy doesn't do them credit, but at the end of the day you're just going to have to deal with the fact that pretty much everyone in /jp/ treats you like a lunatic and values your opinion that much accordingly.

>>19841689
>You want to expel half of Reitaisai
That's an underestimation, Reitaisai wouldn't actually take place if things were to happen according to his criteria.

>>19841539
How is telling you to fuck off because you are an admitted shitposter who PURPOSEFULLY goes into threads with the intention of derailing them an indication of a problem with US? It's a much bigger indication of your own absolute insanity that you twist the world to fit your own viewpoints and remain in a community that wants nothing to do with you and has expressed so multiple times. You don't debate anything, you concede nothing, you don't consider other views at all, you have a warped view of Touhou you think is superior and everyone else's is inferior, you elitist faggot. Talking to you is like speaking to a brick wall and you seem incredibly dense to the idea that people are sick of you derailing threads to talk about how you think Touhou should cater to you specifically and everyone else is a shit fan for their interpretation. This is not a western series. You wanting it to be some big stupid western fantasy like LOTR will never, ever happen.

/vg/ didn't want you and neither do we. If you have so many people who agree with you on "other sites" as you claim to have then go fucking talk Touhou with them. You have no audience or sympathizers here and your experiences in the /vg/ thread should have told you as much. You're not going to convince any doujin artists to stop drawing porn or fans to not enjoy it as long as the series is popular. You also won't ever convince official artists like Aki Eda and Hirasaka to not draw shipping and ecchi, nor will you ever convince ZUN to disown them or his fans with your little crusade on 4chan.

>>19841854
>You don't debate anything, you concede nothing, you don't consider other views at all, you have a warped view of Touhou you think is superior and everyone else's is inferior, you elitist faggot. Talking to you is like speaking to a brick wall and you seem incredibly dense to the idea that people are sick of you derailing threads to talk about how you think Touhou should cater to you specifically and everyone else is a shit fan for their interpretation.
Well shit, I'm not knowledgeable of this guy but he's pretty much the ACK of Touhou according to what you're saying and what I see in this thread. Just report and ignore.

>>19841886
Don't write out that particular poster's name. He has a script that scans 4chan for it and invites himself to every thread where he's mentioned.

Also, reporting won't work since being an insane conspiracy theorist is not actually against the rules.

>>19841539
>I'm not going to argue that my writing style isn't pretty recognizable
This is an anonymous website, anon. By having a signature, a method of identification, an online presence that doesn't dissipate once your post hits the archive, than you're not being anonymous, you're being a narcissist, an attention-whoring narcissist, a namefag. Get your shit together.
>>19841854
Fucking this!

>>19841906
What the fuck? Who does that?

>>19841906
>>19841953
Don't reply to yourself trying desperately to make people think you're more than one person. Seriously, who the fuck does that?

Really, don't you get it? Everyone fucking hates you. That's why there are always people telling you to fuck off for shitposting.
And as always, literally all you can do is screech that your boogieman is real and never actually prove it.

>invites himself to every thread where he's mentioned.
I like how you genuinely think you should just be able to attack and slander people, while you yourself are shitting up the thread, and no one should say anything to you about it.

if you're going to be a shitposting crossboarding retard the least you can do is at least ATTEMPT to learn /jp/ culture and use sage. there's a reason this thread doesn't bump for everyone else's posts

>>19842139
What're you going on about?

Oh fuck, you were right. A fucking script. This is absolutely insane.

>>19842189
Again, everyone fucking hates you, you subhuman.

>>19842189
It's actually funny how you are here purenoff topic meta posting. This breaking the rules. And you try to pretend you boogieman is the problem.

The only saving grace here is that this thread didn't actually get any worse.

What the fuck is happening?

>>19842139
If you're not real, how did you find this thread?

>>19842293
What are of fucking everyone hates you is hard to understand. Again, here you are shitting up threads with objectively off topic meta garbage. And in your own rules breaking posts you are trying to claim other people are the issue.

>>19842321
How did you find this thread?

>>19841689
>That's like saying ZUN ignores all Japanese mythology by making Gensokyo into something that's not Japanese mythology.
That's something you can totally do, actually. ZUN just doesn't do that.

>The only "intention" that seems to matter to you is whether you personally like it or not.
No, even if I did like it. I would still disapprove of the effect it has on the fanbase.

>Explain why they're "incomparable" or must be evaluated on a different basis.
Because one is made by fans, and the other is a original property. Like, there's a reason why "The inmates are running the asylum" is a common complaint with long running properties.

>What's worse?
Well, for starters, the things you mentioned.

>Where, and on what basis?
>>19835323

>Point me to posts indicating that they believe such.
No idea where to find archived threads on this site, or any other. Best I can give you right now is this alternate character interpretation thread on Tv Tropes, which is somewhat in agreement with me on the point of her character:
>https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13831956960a58027100&page=148

>You project a LOT of shit onto ZUN, such as contempt for half the people he's chosen to work with and invites to his parties, right up until proven otherwise.
I don't project my contempt of anybody onto him. I simply look at this work, and deduce that he seems to dislike certain trends.

>As for "childish" interest in the supernatural, there is nothing to have ever - even once - indicated that ZUN does not approve of such.
I would say the entire story of ULiL disagrees with you.

>1, 2, and 4 describe you better than anyone else on this board.
I'm not a hipster, my taste is too boring and mundane for that. I'm not a social outcast, and I would never blame anybody else. And I don't think i'm different than other people.

>And as for 4, that attitude has been a staple of LN protagonists (who ZUN explicitly compared Sumireko to) since Haruhi.
That doesn't exclude such behavior from also being a parody of Touhou fans.

>You CAN apply them to youkai. Nothing in the text indicates that you should.
Have you even read PMISS, SoPM, BaiJR, or AFIEU?

>Identify specific actions indicating incomprehensible inhuman fair folk bizarro logic in, say, SaBND.
The fairies engaging in weird childish pranks because they want to proof that fairies are just as terrifying as other Youkai.

>Touhou Project is literally nothing but girls playing around. Playing around is not "inhuman."
It can be, depending on the circumstances. Grown ass adults, which most Touhou characters are, playing around like a bunch of little girls is inhuman.

>Shitting on the vast majority of the fanbase for not meeting your expectations is elitist as all fuck.
I shit on a large part of the fan base, mostly on this site, because they are terrible and toxic. Not because they don't meet my expectations.

>You want to expel half of Reitaisai / Comiket from the Touhou Fanbase (several hundred thousand people) for the purpose of getting "more people" into Touhou?
Let me be absolutely clear with what I want, because you aren't going to get it otherwise. What I want is for a certain type of Touhou fans to stop treating Touhou like their own personal wish fulfillment fantasy. Something its not, never was, and never will be. I don't care about shipping, black tewi, porn, or fanfiction in any way expect that they might lure in more of such people, which 99% of the time is a unintentional side effect for which they cannot be blamed. I want this for the simple reason that I think those people are annoying and harmful to the fandom , nothing more nothing less.

>Either you're the greatest, most enlightened, most insightful, most knowledgeable Touhou Project fan who ever visited /jp/, or your conception of Touhou Project is complete fucking bananas. It turns out that pretty much everyone thinks its the latter.
The truth is far more simple, i'm afraid. You people are delusional, I am not.

And as for people on /jp/ thinking i'm a lunatic, I don't care. People with such opinions have, time and time again, shown themselves to be the lowest of the low. If anything, I view their disapproval as clear evidence that i'm right.

>>19842329
How did you?
Why were you meta shitposting in it?

>>19842366
kill yourself

>>19842366
>It can be, depending on the circumstances. Grown ass adults, which most Touhou characters are, playing around like a bunch of little girls is inhuman.
What the fuck am I reading? Sounds like you need to go out more often.
> If anything, I view their disapproval as clear evidence that i'm right.
That's typical hipster syndrome right here.

>>19841705
Nonsense. I don't want to expel even 1%, at worst just a few people making particularly cringeworthy and blatant self insert porn.

>>19841854
It's a problem with you because you are delusional, slanderous, liars, close minded, overblowing, nonsensical, and downright stalkerish, all because I think Canon Gensokyo just isn't a very nice place.

>>19841906
>He has a script that scans 4chan for it and invites himself to every thread where he's mentioned.
>He has a script.
And here we have a perfect example of the kind of delusional obsession i'm talking about. I literally do not know how to use a script, let alone program one. If I did, I would be using it for literally anything other than browsing, of all websites, 4chan. It's this kind of, admintently hilarious, nonsense why I think you people are scum and the fandom would be better off without you.

>>19841943
Believe me, if I could change the way I write I would.

>>19842366
>That's something you can totally do, actually. ZUN just doesn't do that.
Explain the distinction.
>No, even if I did like it. I would still disapprove of the effect it has on the fanbase.
And whether you disapprove of that effect depends solely on whether you personally like it or not.
>Because one is made by fans, and the other is a original property.
Explain why derivative work and original work must be evaluated on a different basis. Citing a catchphrase is not an explanation.

>19835323
I checked the source. It does not indicate that ZUN "actively dislikes" shipping, only that it's not his thing, and that he doesn't include it in the games because he's not interested in it.

Oh, bonus; ZUN explicitly telling an ero doujin artist to continue drawing ero doujinshi: https://twitter.com/itolife/status/655303031211233280

>https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13831956960a58027100&page=148
As expected of the shithole known as TVTropes. That aside, quote the specific post you're referring to.

>I simply look at this work, and deduce that he seems to dislike certain trends.
Your "deductions" consist entirely of taking what you think of Touhou Project and assuming that ZUN thinks it as well.

>That doesn't exclude such behavior from also being a parody of Touhou fans.
It excludes that such behavior was written for the purpose of being hateable.

>I don't think i'm different than other people.
You think you're superior to the community you're currently in.

>Have you even read PMISS, SoPM, BaiJR, or AFIEU?
Once again you cite "everything" as your source. Provide specific text indicating that, say, Remilia, acts according to "incomprehensible inhuman fair folk bizarro logic."
>The fairies engaging in weird childish pranks because they want to proof that fairies are just as terrifying as other Youkai.
Childish pranks are not "terrifying." This is nonsense.
>Grown ass adults, which most Touhou characters are, playing around like a bunch of little girls is inhuman.
Adults playing pranks like children is no more inherently inhuman than adults playing games like children. Provide any textual source where ZUN refers to "grown ass adults" (or any other term indicating that a character is "too old" for something); or that it is shameful or improper for characters to be playing pranks.
>I shit on a large part of the fan base, mostly on this site, because they are terrible and toxic. Not because they don't meet my expectations.
Literally the same thing.
>What I want
You may as well choose to want a trillion dollars, because it's something you're never going to get.

>The truth is far more simple, i'm afraid. You people are delusional, I am not.
If you enter a room of 100 people and the other 99 seem crazy, in all likelihood the crazy one is yourself. You don't have to believe it. Just know that /jp/ treats everything you say as the ravings of a lunatic.

>>19842494
He's talking about the barney poster from /v/ you stupid fucking mongoloid.

>>19842494
>Nonsense. I don't want to expel even 1%, at worst just a few people making particularly cringeworthy and blatant self insert porn.
You wanted all romantic stories, and anything else that "ignores established lore" to be expelled before the disease killed the body.

>And here we have a perfect example of the kind of delusional obsession i'm talking about.
Here we have a perfect example of you being a retard with a martyr complex because he was referring to another (alleged) poster entirely.

>>19842494
That person wasn't talking about you, you idiot.
And you've obviously never been to Reitaisai to say such things. Lots of self-insert porn and ridiculous stuff comes out of such conventions. I have bought a doujinshi where Yuyuko schlicks Youmu and such things are obviously not allowed according to what you say.

>>19842381
Tell me how you found this thread and I'll tell you how I found this thread.

>>19842518
>僕にとっては弾幕がエロだから。
Aw, he's so cute. I want to buy him a beer.

>>19842494
>It's a problem with you because you are delusional, slanderous, liars, close minded, overblowing, nonsensical, and downright stalkerish, all because I think Canon Gensokyo just isn't a very nice place.
Stop deflecting. You didn't address any point that was made. This is fucking retarded and your playing the victim here is completely laughable. You have admitted multiple times that you come to this board with the intention of shitposting and derailing threads. You have admitted yourself that your posting style is very distinct. As was literally just explained to you, you come into threads and make these posts and reiterate these talking points over and over and over again despite people explaining in plain english why they don't care and are tired of hearing from you.

Seriously, what's the endgame of your master plan here? Just sit in a community you clearly don't like, full of people you don't like, making threads and posts to intentionally start arguments, all to play the victim when the community that doesn't like you tells you to fuck off. You don't get to play the victim card when you have admitted to coming to our board for no other purpose than to start arguments.

Again, you say you have "plenty of" other sites that will entertain your bullshit, why don't you go there instead?

>>19842550
Why bother. You already proves you're the cancer with you're off topic meta bull shit.

>>19842612
How did you find this thread?

>>19842494
>downright stalkerish
your posts are so blatantly obvious people would be retarded to not realize its you, dumbass. this happened on /vg/ as well. it's not being a stalker, it's realizing that the same fucking faggot keeps making insipid posts all the time. just because you don't have a name attached to your posts doesn't mean no one can tell who you are

>I think you people are scum and the fandom would be better off without you.
the fact that you say this and then cant understand how you're being an elitist cunt and think we're "slandering" you when you think a wide majority of the fanbase and doujin creators are garbage for not adhering to your view of Gensokyo would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad.

if you don't want people to call you a faggot for posting retarded shit then don't post on 4chan.

>>19842620
No one is going to answer the question of a shitposter like you.

This deep in and no one has at all explained why Touhou "needs saving"

>>19842683
Because it doesn't need saving. Touhou is just fine.

>>19842669
It doesn't really matter since everyone already knows the answer to the question anyway.

>>19842695
Who's "everyone"? You see the only person who thinks your boogieman is real?

>>19842752
You found this thread using a script. Only one person engages in that kind of behavior. That person is you, a real person.

>>19842772
Only one person (you) thinks your boogieman is real, will shit up a thread with meta garbage and the trying to blame the people who tells him to stop. All while never actually even saying what his boogieman does wrong.

>>19842796
Most people here believe you, the poster, >>19842796, is a real person.

>>19842518
>Explain the distinction.
ZUN incorporates the themes, ideas, and world of Japanese mythology into Touhou. Something like Disney's hercules meanwhile does not.

>And whether you disapprove of that effect depends solely on whether you personally like it or not.
No, it depends on if I think it attracts a certain type of fan.

>Explain why derivative work and original work must be evaluated on a different basis.
Derivative work, by its very nature, is going to be compared to thing its derived from. Not just the overall quality, but also if it manages to capture the spirit, themes, and ideas of the original. Or failing that, either deliberately or accidentally, still feel like it takes place in the same universe. You can argue it's unfair, and in some cases it is, but I don't necessarily think it's unreasonable.

> It does not indicate that ZUN "actively dislikes" shipping, only that it's not his thing, and that he doesn't include it in the games because he's not interested in it.
I would say that means he dislikes shipping, but i'm not going to get into a argument about semantics. The point is he doesn't ship himself, and might be trying to subtly discourage it in canon.

>Oh, bonus; ZUN explicitly telling an ero doujin artist to continue drawing ero doujinshi: https://twitter.com/itolife/status/655303031211233280
I can't read japanese.

>That aside, quote the specific post you're referring to.
>It is interesting that Sumireko is similar to the protagonist of Spaztique's notorious walfas video. While the protagonist more or less is dead at the end, Sumireko comes out of it a little better than what she was. Sumireko also seems to suffer from chunnibyou syndrome where she imagines herself to have superpowers and live in a fantasy world except she does have superpowers and frequently travels to Gensokyo, a dream world that she can access through her dreams. I wonder if Sumireko is a parody of chunnis and.or otaku?
>Perhaps. Her story could be used to illustrate that getting immersed in a fantasy world might not be the "fun" sort of adventure, and could indeed be dangerous and terrifying. Plus her pursuit of wish fulfillment ultimately endangered the very land she was trying to explore, and is undermining her life in the mundane world. It could count as a deconstruction of the "normal student falls into fantasy world" sort of story were it not for the fact that, as you pointed out, she gets a happy ending out of it.
>Sumireko is pretty much living the dream only for it to turn out to be a night nightmare and to good to be a true.
>Well, it was a nightmare for a while when everyone was putting the fear of youkai into her, but that phase has passed. Now it sounds like she's enjoying herself and even making friends... with the caveats that she's sleeping her life away in the real world, sucking matter out of Gensokyo when she visits, and she's spawning Dream Souls that could possess people or hit her with a paradox if one bumps into her while her dream self is running around. So a good dream that could flip to a nightmare in a heartbeat, and you're spending an unhealthy amount of time in bed to have it.

>Your "deductions" consist entirely of taking what you think of Touhou Project and assuming that ZUN thinks it as well.
Writing doesn't happen by accident. Unless you believe in death in the author, trying to decide what point the author was trying to make using his actual work is normal literary analysis.

>It excludes that such behavior was written for the purpose of being hateable.
Sumireko is supposed to be obnoxious, not hateable.

>Provide specific text indicating that, say, Remilia, acts according to "incomprehensible inhuman fair folk bizarro logic."
>They can create abnormalities in everything including natural phenomena with no warning, for selfish reasons, which will always lead to endangering human life no matter what is affected. Most of these reasons are out of mere curiosity, and they will cease once they tire of it.
>Since she has abundant curiosity, she may choose to invite humans to her parties or play in the human villages on a whim. However, because she is childish, you must be careful not to render her in a bad mood. Otherwise, there may be terrifying consequences. You will have to put up with her selfishness. She thinks that nobody is superior to her, not only among humans but among youkai as well. Because of her haughty attitude, she is friendly to none.
>1: She was called the Scarlet Devil before coming to Gensokyo. This came from the fact that she often spills blood and stains her white clothes.
>They went on a rampage when they first appeared in Gensokyo, lost against powerful youkai, and settled down after agreeing to a contract. The details of this contract are that the youkai will offer them humans from which to feed; in return, the vampires will not attack humans living in Gensokyo.

>>19842803
See how you constantly refuse to acknowledge you started this by meta shitposting in the first place? That's what makes it so obvious you're the problem.

meta shitposting is better than whatever this retard is trying to say anyway, you two should keep doing it

>>19842518
>Childish pranks are not "terrifying." This is nonsense.
Yes, exactly. That's my fucking point, they are mad. They are all mad down there. Like, why do you think the second game was called "Story of Eastern Wonderland". It wasn't because Reimu spend the entire game dealing with normal people.

>Adults playing pranks like children is no more inherently inhuman than adults playing games like children
Again, context, Aya going to Reimu to play a prank on her is not normal. Imagine if the owner of the New York Times went to a local church to pranks the Bishop. Does that sound like normal human behavior to you?

>You think you're superior to the community you're currently in.
I think i'm superior to some of the people in this community, yes.

>Literally the same thing.
I mean, I suppose my expectation was for people to NOT be terrible and toxic. So, fair enough.

>because it's something you're never going to get.
Eh, never say never. it depends on how much staying power Touhou has, and how many of the old fans go away.

>If you enter a room of 100 people and the other 99 seem crazy, in all likelihood the crazy one is yourself.
Perhaps. But what happened is that I entered a room with seven billion people, and walked into one corner with 70 crazy ones.

>>19842864
Just stop.

>>19842864
No, actually, if you walk into Comiket or Reitaisai and tell all the porn doujin artists and fans buying their merch or singing IOSYS songs and spouting SDM memes to stop, they will tell you to fuck off too. And this goes for shit like FATE as well.

>>19842521
Huh. Sorry then for the false accusation.

>>19842536
That's not what I wanted. I explained what I do want a while ago, look it up.

>Here we have a perfect example of you being a retard with a martyr complex because he was referring to another (alleged) poster entirely.
It was a mistake. But considering somebody wrote
>"Don't write out that particular poster's name. He has a script that scans 4chan for it and invites himself to every thread where he's mentioned.Also, reporting won't work since being an insane conspiracy theorist is not actually against the rules."
After I was just called a conspiracy theorist about six times, claiming I have a martyr complex is a bit overblown.

>>19842548
I think such things run the risk of luring the wrong kind of people to Touhou, but I don't think they should be "banned".

>>19842565
>You didn't address any point that was made.
I actually did, not like I expected you to notice. Not like it matters anyway, I don't expect you people to listen anymore than I expect a Dog not to shit inside.

>Seriously, what's the endgame of your master plan here?
Discussing Touhou without people going crazy because I told them that murder is bad. It's probably not going to happen, at least on /jp/, but the dream is still there.

>Again, you say you have "plenty of" other sites that will entertain your bullshit, why don't you go there instead?
Because the Touhou fandom is mostly dead elsewhere.

>>19842631
If I were so blatantly obvious, then people wouldn't constantly mistake other anon's for me. And the way you people constantly talk about me does make you sound like a stalker, i'm not trying to hide you know.

>when you think a wide majority of the fanbase and doujin creators are garbage for not adhering to your view of Gensokyo
As i've explained, time and time again, that's not what I want. THAT'S what i mean with slander.

>>19842864
thinking /jp/ is the outlier and that there are seven billion people that agree with your niche personal gensokyo and opinion that the majority of the fanbase are scum and the franchise is better off without them despite all the evidence to the contrary (reitaisai+comiket doujinshi, nico memes, the entirety of touhou's doujin culture) is the height of delusion

>>19842879
Then stop responding to me. I'm not going to change my mind on this subject, at least not from people as awful as you.

>>19842943
It's a good thing then that not only am I not going to do that, I also don't see any reason to do that.

>>19842985
>thinking /jp/ is the outlier and that there are seven billion people that agree with your niche personal gensokyo
Not what I claimed.

>and opinion that the majority of the fanbase are scum and the franchise is better off without them despite all the evidence to the contrary
Not what I want.

Read again.

Sanae loves taking huge cocks in all her holes and feeling the pleasure of being cummed inside

>>19842975
You're contradicting yourself. You're trying to appear as a mega hipster that doesn't agree with what people can do when they let their festishes and fantasies leak on the paper, but you then suddenly say that they shouldn't be prohibited.
You're going way too passive-aggressive and backpedaling too much for me to take you seriously. You're obviously just here to shitpost.
>Because the Touhou fandom is mostly dead elsewhere.
Just because it's dying on whatever other shitty website you used to go to doesn't mean it's actually dying. Western shitters have a history for caring about something that becomes popular and then jumping off the boat at the slightest sign of decline. And Touhou might actually die on other planes like here or in Japan if people weren't allowed to have fun with the source material.

There's no problem with Touhou. People like (You) are the problem. Touhou is NOT going to become a big multimedia fantasy franchise and you just gotta deal with it. Now get the fuck off this board.

>>19828649
>There's not very many people who browse /jp/ on an 1890s telegraph.
Really?
Man, the neighborhood's gone to shit.

>>19842811
>ZUN incorporates the themes, ideas, and world of Japanese mythology into Touhou.
He borrows concepts and writes his own stories around them often having little to do with the original. Consider Choujuu Gigaku. What part of Mystia and Kyouko playing in a band contains faithfully incorporated "themes, ideas, and world" of the original night sparrow youkai and yamabiko from actual Japanese mythology? Not much.

>Derivative work, by its very nature, is going to be compared to thing its derived from. Not just the overall quality, but also if it manages to capture the spirit, themes, and ideas of the original. Or failing that, either deliberately or accidentally, still feel like it takes place in the same universe. You can argue it's unfair, and in some cases it is, but I don't necessarily think it's unreasonable.
Tasogare Frontier's doujin games, Satori Komeiji's Mental Education and Patchcon, do not capture the spirit, themes, and ideas of the Touhou Project danmaku games. You could declare these games "failure" if that was your metric. Nevertheless, most people who consume derivative work don't use that metric. They evaluate them based on their qualities as a game.

>I can't read japanese.
Tweet by Itou Life: I'm not sure if ZUN remembers it, but we spoke after the Flowering Night concert. Me: "I like Touhou ero." ZUN: "That's fine, draw away. Personally, I find danmaku ero. You get it, right? Those undulations?" is the hopeless conversation that we had.

>That aside, quote the specific post you're referring to.
These are primarily critiques of Sumireko's escapism. None of them support the notion that she's a _deliberately obnoxious parody of a Touhou fan_, as you said.

>Unless you believe in death in the author, trying to decide what point the author was trying to make using his actual work is normal literary analysis.
You execute your literary analysis primarily based on preconceptions rather than actual text.

>Remilia / Vampires
Your excerpts from the Vampire section are, in some sense, outdated. The part about rampages predates the spell card era, whereas Remilia is only a recent arrival to Gensokyo. The phenomena also don't always endanger human life; the excerpts from Gensou 3 indicate that the human village was never in danger.

>Since she has abundant curiosity, she may choose to invite humans to her parties or play in the human villages on a whim. However, because she is childish, you must be careful not to render her in a bad mood. Otherwise, there may be terrifying consequences. You will have to put up with her selfishness. She thinks that nobody is superior to her, not only among humans but among youkai as well. Because of her haughty attitude, she is friendly to none.
This is neither "incomprehensible" nor "fair folk." It's typical bratty ojou shit, no different from any number of other bratty vampire lolis in Japanese media not made out to be "incomprehensible" in any way.

>>19842864
>Yes, exactly. That's my fucking point, they are mad.
PC-98 games are deprecated. But no, having fun and playing pranks is not "madness."
>Imagine if the owner of the New York Times went to a local church to pranks the Bishop. Does that sound like normal human behavior to you?
People who go out of their way to defy social norms in the outside world are seen as strange. There is a professional expectation for people to interact professionally. No such expectation exists in Gensokyo, which more or less exists for most named characters in a state of indefinite adolescence.
>I suppose my expectation was for people to NOT be terrible and toxic.
How long have you known what 4chan was?

>But what happened is that I entered a room with seven billion people, and walked into one corner with 70 crazy ones.
It's amazing that you can claim on one hand that /jp/ represents an insignificant minority of Touhou fans and on the other hand claim that the Touhou fandom is dead everywhere else.

>>19842975
>That's not what I wanted.
"My problem is not the fact that smut exists, it's the way most of the fandom just flat out ignores the established lore and characters to turn Touhou into something it's [not]. It doesn't matter if they do that with hardcore porn, romantic stories, or weird wish fulfillment posts, all of it is a disease that needs to be cured before it kills the body."

Presumably you believe that hardcore porn and romantic stories (and, for that matter, dumb memetic shit and gag comedy) are all things that Touhou Project is "not."

>>19842494
>you are delusional, slanderous, liars, close minded, overblowing, nonsensical, and downright stalkerish
Holy shit he finally snapped he's totally out of his leash HAHAHHAHAHAHA

>>19843437
/jp/, everyone.

>>19843492
I'm not even from here I was pointed in this direction because how much a freakshow it is right now LMAO

>>19843437
he's completely out of his mind. /vg/ started to break him and /jp/ pushed him over the edge.

>>19843521
You must be 18 years or older to post here.

>>19842494
So you're that grimfag shitposter?
What a time to be alive.

>>19843066
>What part of Mystia and Kyouko playing in a band contains faithfully incorporated "themes, ideas, and world" of the original night sparrow youkai and yamabiko from actual Japanese mythology?
The joke is that both characters are associated with, often hard, sound. So, wouldn't it be funny if they ran a punk rock band together?

> You could declare these games "failure" if that was your metric.
If they flat out ignore the lore, or don't feel like Touhou games, then I would probably call them failures in that regard.

>Nevertheless, most people who consume derivative work don't use that metric. They evaluate them based on their qualities as a game.
Nonsense, people love to complain about adaptational changes, even when it comes to video games.

>Tweet by Itou Life
I mean, it's obviously not his thing. But I don't expect him to say "BAN THIS SICK FILTH!".

>None of them support the notion that she's a _deliberately obnoxious parody of a Touhou fan_, as you said.
All of them do support the notion that she's a deconstruction of the typical Touhou wish fulfillment fantasy, and that such a thing wasn't accidental.

>You execute your literary analysis primarily based on preconceptions rather than actual text.
What preconceptions? I don't go into Touhou thinking "ZUN has this or that opinion."

>Your excerpts from the Vampire section are, in some sense, outdated.
Did you just forget, like, the whole plot of EoSD? Sure, it's true the Human Village was never actually in danger. But it's still a completely insane thing to do, especially considering the actual reason.

Meanwhile, the vampire incident was what, ten years ago? I don't think Remilia has changed all that much since then.

>This is neither "incomprehensible" nor "fair folk.
I would say it's a few steps above the usual bratty ojou shit. If i'm going to compare it to another character, it's more like something Shinobu from Bakemonogatari might do in her pre loli days.

>But no, having fun and playing pranks is not "madness."
People were genuinely trying to kill Reimu in the pc-98. And in certain contexts, pranks and playing can be madness.

>There is a professional expectation for people to interact professionally. No such expectation exists in Gensokyo, which more or less exists for most named characters in a state of indefinite adolescence.
That kind of indefinite, if not permanent, adolescence of creatures that could kill you by looking at you hard IS inhumane fair folk shit. Most Youkai are incompressible (wo)manchildren that might either kill or befriend you depending on their own weird rules and if they find you amusing enough, they are not your fucking supernatural girlfriend.

>It's amazing that you can claim on one hand that /jp/ represents an insignificant minority of Touhou fans and on the other hand claim that the Touhou fandom is dead everywhere else.
The people i'm talking about make up a decent portion of /jp/, which in turn makes up a decent portion of the remaining western fanbase. Even if we include asian fans with a similar mindset, which i'm sure do exist, then it's still a minority.

>Presumably you believe that hardcore porn and romantic stories (and, for that matter, dumb memetic shit and gag comedy) are all things that Touhou Project is "not."
I do believe that hardcore porn and romantic stories are not Touhou. Now, it's possible to do both while only deviating, rather than ignoring, canon. I don't know why you would, but you can do it if you actually tried.

>>19843437
Don't pretend like I haven't always disliked you people. I've called you and others delusional, slanderous, liars, etc plenty of times already.

>>19843565
The only thing /vg/ accomplished is giving me a somewhat better alternative to /jp/ when it comes to talking about Touhou. And the only thing /jp/ accomplished is being unintentionally amusing.

>>19842494
as someone who likes a slightly dark interpretation of touhou: shut the fuck up, we're all gonna be associated with you if you keep this up

>>19845337
I'm pretty sure most of you people already are. Or people will assume that you are me.

Either way, this anon has nothing to do with me. I probably don't even share most of his opinions.

>>19845337
>>19845385
Also, don't blame me. Blame the people that would be willing to attack you just because you don't fall in line with their opinion that Gensokyo is heaven.

Now that's just a stupid thing to cry about. If someone tells you "oh you must be that annoying autist" to try and refute what you say, you just tell them "not an argument" and carry on.

>>19845393
And you say you don't have a victim complex.

>>19845449
I probably should in the future. Beats trying to reason with these people.

>>19845294
What even is the point you're trying to make? This is a bunch of small ""arguments"" tied together to beat around the bush of the actual point. No wonder no one ever gets anything accomplished when talking to you if all you do is ignore or close what you can refute and keep adding more and more irrelevant statements that keeps until one of the two either gives up or the thread reaches bump limit.

>>19845660
The point i'm trying to make is this: Gensokyo is not, never was, and never will be your personal wish fulfillment fantasy. People that think it is are toxic and harmful to the fanbase, and I hope they either change or leave.

>>19845713
When you write things like that, everyone assumes it's easier to tell you to fuck off since you are either completely mentally insane or just shitposting. Maybe it's a defense mechanism where you just pretend to be retarded, where everything several posters have been arguing with for the entire thread has been meaningless since you'll just return to the beginning and put your fingers on your ears and dismiss everything and say "I'm right! They're wrong! they're the toxic ones! I'm a victim! They're just opposing me because I have a differing point of view! I'm innocent!".
>The point i'm trying to make is this: Gensokyo is not, never was, and never will be your personal wish fulfillment fantasy.
Seriously, knowing your previous post is really hard for me to tell if you're just pretending or actually being retarded.

>>19845393
You lose the right to cry about being called a shitposter and having your posts dismissed when you have admitted repeatedly to coming here for no other reason than to cause arguments and derail threads. You keep ignoring this point.

You are nothing but an elitist attention-seeking shitposter and there is a reason why people have always been willing to engage with darker interpretations of Gensokyo like people who post the Zounoose doujins but not yours specifically. It just seems impossible to you because you can't help yourself from sperging out and derailing threads.

>>19845833
Oh, I'm sorry. It sounded like you wanted to know what point I was trying to make, how foolish of me to think that was actually the case. If you actually wanted another long wall of text post detailing every reason why I feel the way I do, then you need but ask.

>Seriously, knowing your previous post is really hard for me to tell if you're just pretending or actually being retarded.
I feel the same way about you right now.

>>19845903
>You lose the right to cry about being called a shitposter and having your posts dismissed when you have admitted repeatedly to coming here for no other reason than to cause arguments and derail threads. You keep ignoring this point.
I'm not ignoring that. What you're ignoring is that I did that ONCE, months ago, in the context of annoying people on shitty waifuthreads. That you people take that as hard evidence that i'm some kind of massive shitposter trying to derail threads is exactly the kind of delusional pathetic garbage i've come to expect from dumb intellectual cowards like you.

Like, if you're going to claim i'm trying to derail threads, then please explain to me how going to a thread called "Why are shadow governments viewed as bad" and explaining why I think shadow governments are bad is shitposting or thread derailment. Please explain to me how going to a thread called "Is Yukari evil?" and saying that she is indeed evil is thread derailment. Please explain to me how going to a thread about Reimu and then talking about Reimu is shitposting or thread derailment. And finally, please explain to me how going to a thread called "How do we save Touhou" and posting how I think we should save Touhou is either shitposting or thread derailment.

>>19846389
You've gone full egofag, you just directly listed all the threads you've taken part in that were shit and lasted for a very long time. Congratulations, you have finished registering your user profile on an anonymous website, and your presence will be remembered, actively, and it won't dissapear as soon as you stop posting. You do realize that's what you're doing, and that it's very different from anons like the "I love Reisen!" poster, it's the one where you might as well namefag so you can be filtered.

lmaoing @ the retarded yukarifaggots who are still stuck in 2008
yukari is a simple policewoman and occasional border patrol officer
okina is the governor

>>19846389
You've gone full egofag, you just listed all the threads you've taken part in, ones that lasted for a long time and a lot of people saw. Congratulations, you've finished the registration of your profile on an anonymous website, and are going to be remembered longer than your post will, in a very different way than people like the "I love Reisen" poster, but more like Zetafag, a bogeyman. You really need to start namefagging, so people can filter you. Please keep the sage-chain going.

>>19847164
She's a great gal.

>>19846249
Oh I apologize for that, my drunk ass misread your post and I got a bit carried away. Anyway, back to the point. How do you even connect all of what's in that post to your original point? A lot of what you present either doesn't add anything to your argument, or it's discussing an entirely different thing. I don't know why you keep doing this and especially with that spacing between quotes and normal text which only makes the entire post look even more bloated.

>>19846389
thanks for confessing, again, that you went into threads to purposefully stir up shit. shitposting is shitposting. you're no victim. the fact that you admit to doing it and think it shouldn't color peoples perception of you is almost as insane as your decision to continue to stick around in a community that you hate, that doesn't want you here.

>>19847586
That isn't an argument

>>19845449
the best thing to do to get people to talk to you on /jp/ is certainly to use crossboard lingo

>>19847714
What did he mean by this?

>>19845294
>The joke is that both characters are associated with, often hard, sound. So, wouldn't it be funny if they ran a punk rock band together?
If that's all that's necessary to count as including "themes, ideas, and world", even most H-doujinshi retain some distinctive trait or another of the original character.

>I would probably call them failures in that regard.
Is there a reason your opinion should be regarded as universal, or that they should be considered failures as games overall rather than noting that they technically fail to satisfy one particular criteria?
>Nonsense, people love to complain about adaptational changes, even when it comes to video games.
People rarely ever complain about fangames not resembling the original game. If you don't like it don't play it. People complain about adaptations because they look forwards to them, expect a consistent "singular" canon, and feel obligated to consume all "canon" work associated with the series.

>All of them do support the notion that she's a deconstruction of the typical Touhou wish fulfillment fantasy, and that such a thing wasn't accidental.
Escapism (and criticism of escapism) is a widespread theme in Japanese media for years predating ULiL. But even if we grant that it is about Touhou fans specifically, that's irrelevant; I asked for evidence that many other people believe your specific interpretation: "deliberately obnoxious parody of bad Touhou fans" (verbatim quote). The TVTropes posts you're quoting do not indicate that they subscribe to your interpretation.

>Did you just forget, like, the whole plot of EoSD? Sure, it's true the Human Village was never actually in danger. But it's still a completely insane thing to do, especially considering the actual reason.
Causing incidents is not "insane" or "incomprehensible." They are essentially rituals to keep youkai spiritually alive.

>Meanwhile, the vampire incident was what, ten years ago? I don't think Remilia has changed all that much since then.
Technically it's not fully confirmed in-universe that Remilia did the vampire incident, but I agree that it's strongly suggested. But to arrive in a new territory with a bang and assert yourself as top dog is still not incomprehensible.

>I would say it's a few steps above the usual bratty ojou shit.
Even high level bratty ojous are made to be relatable characters rater than the Western notion in which the supernatural is held to be incomprehensible. Shinobu is not held out to be an incomprehensible creature. The primary characteristic that distinguishes "fair folk" from a bunch of weird people is _ineffability_, a bar you wholly fail to meet with just about every Touhou Project character.

>That kind of indefinite, if not permanent, adolescence of creatures that could kill you by looking at you hard IS inhumane fair folk shit.
The actions they take, like playing dumb pranks, are perfectly understandable. Whether I could kill you or not (and I could, after a brief stop at the local Walmart) is irrelevant to whether it's possible to understand my actions. Again, the characteristic of fair folk is "incomprehensibility." You claiming someone is acting like a dumb manchild does not rise to that level. Manchildren are perfectly human individuals.

>that might either kill or befriend you
The vast majority of named characters are not confirmed or implied for killing anyone they meet. Even one of the most in-universe canonically dangerous youkai, Yuuka, is referred to out-of-universe as ZUN as "youkai moe." They COULD kill you or befriend you, yes, but so could every jackoff you meet on the street.

>People were genuinely trying to kill Reimu in the pc-98.
PC-98 assumptions are irrelevant to the worldview of modern Touhou.
>And in certain contexts, pranks and playing can be madness.
The faeries manga features a hundred pranks by now. How many of these contexts were "madness"? Most of them? Some of them? Which ones?

>>19848560
Not the person you're talking to but the second issue of Strange Creators in Outer World confirmed that Remilia was indeed the perpetrator of the vampire incident. Also, "youkai moe" was only used once by ZUN in the profile for Yuuka in Kioh Gyoku, a Seihou game. Moreover, in the same profile, ZUN confirms that Kioh Gyoku Yuuka is the same Yuuka from the PC-98 series. Yes, the same Yuuka who enjoys harming others, proclaims the act of genocide as a game, and who believes that "power is everything". "Youkai moe" doesn't mean cute youkai. I find it funny how you used obscure Seihou profile text as proof of a paradisal, cutesy "everyone will love me" Gensokyo but you tell the other guy that "PC-98 assumptions are irrelevant". In any case, please do not spread misinformation or misleading information. Thank you.

>>19845294
>The people i'm talking about make up a decent portion of /jp/, which in turn makes up a decent portion of the remaining western fanbase. Even if we include asian fans with a similar mindset, which i'm sure do exist, then it's still a minority.
What "people" and "mindset" are you talking about? What does it mean to "make Touhou into something that it's not"? If engage in a raucous rendition of Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at karaoke, have I "made Touhou into something that it's not"? If I read or draw an AliMari doujinshi, have I "made Touhou into something it's not"? If I want to engage in VIGOROUS ACTS OF COITUS with [insert youkai here], have I "made Touhou into something it's not"? If I play one of the non-canon Tasogare Frontier doujin games, have I "made Touhou into something it's not"?

Give us a fucking definition for how you define the kinds of fans that must be expelled from the fanbase.

>I do believe that hardcore porn and romantic stories are not Touhou. Now, it's possible to do both while only deviating, rather than ignoring, canon. I don't know why you would, but you can do it if you actually tried.
And? Dumb memetic and gag comedy, is that "not Touhou"?

>What preconceptions? I don't go into Touhou thinking "ZUN has this or that opinion."
This should have gone into other post, as it's about Gensokyo proper than about doujinshi, but here it is.

You have preconceptions of Touhou Project that appear to have come from being raised in some ridiculous TVTropes kool-aid cult, pattern-matching Touhou Project to TVTropes definitions of shit like "Blue and Orange Morality", "The Fair Folk", "False Utopia" and then anchoring onto these tropes rather than the actual text itself. This is a fucking awful analytical starting point. But hey, lots of people have awful priors, we were all young and stupid at some point.

Your problem is that you read literally everything in such a way as to confirm these priors if there is ANY room for interpretation that would confirm these priors. All subjective in-universe observations can be discarded because the character was insane or evil or compromised. All arguments as to the language ZUN uses can be explained away by claiming that he was just being ironic.

This is not arguing from the text. If you took 100 random people and made them read a few chapters of SaBND, not a single one pre-primed with a very particular set of beliefs would say, "this manga illustrates the blue and orange morality of the main characters, and is meant to demonstrate that faeries are just as terrifying as man-eating beasts." Why? Because they're going to draw inferences about SaBND _from the text_, which suggests one thing obviously, and can only be made to suggest something else once you load it down with a shitton of carefully chosen interpretive context.

Let's take Aya doing the dumb newspaper prank thing. If this appeared in a random-ass one-shot 4koma somewhere not a single person who read it, "What a terrifying series of events that was, machinations engineered by strange and incomprehensible beings. No man could ever fathom the ineffable ways of this mysterious Aya character." Anyone who concluded this would be completely fucking bananas. How do you, then, extract this conclusion? By superimposing a specifically cherry-picked set of arguments and information from outside the text.

1. "Aya is hundreds of years old! Isn't it weird for a grown-ass woman to be playing pranks, at her age?"
2. "Why would a newspaper editor prank anyone? We'd consider it insane if the owner of the New York Times spent his time playing juvenile pranks!"
3. "You wouldn't prank a bishop, would you? Wouldn't it be weird to engage in juvenile antics with a dignified man of the cloth?"
4. "Tengu aren't humans! They're the same as all other youkai in Gensokyo, complicit in a massive crime against humanity spanning generations."
5. "Sometimes a youkai SEEMS like she's being your friend, but that just means you got lucky. You could have just as easily been killed. Nobody can know what they're thinking."

The way you seem to mentally approach this situation is to assert all of these extra statements with practical certainty, superimpose them onto the situation, and (unsurprisingly) arrive at a conclusion that supports what you already believed. This is a _poor_ method of textual analysis. It permits beliefs to essentially be used as proof of themselves while masquerading as proof from the text.

>>19848615
I defer to the your updated knowledge of SCoOW and superior knowledge of PC-98. I would only like to add that (as you know) ZUN has stated that the world assumptions of PC-98 are old stuff that you shouldn't worry about and that in the Windows games he notes that much dialogue is overdone banter.

Nevertheless, while you can't conclude anything in-universe about Yuuka from her KG profile, you can draw conclusions about ZUN's attitudes towards these kinds of characters. As for what "youkai moe" means I would like for your explanation.

>>19845294
>The people i'm talking about make up a decent portion of /jp/, which in turn makes up a decent portion of the remaining western fanbase. Even if we include asian fans with a similar mindset, which i'm sure do exist, then it's still a minority.
What "people" and "mindset" are you talking about? What does it mean to "make Touhou into something that it's not"? If engage in a raucous rendition of Marisa Stole the Precious Thing at karaoke, have I "made Touhou into something that it's not"? If I read or draw an AliMari doujinshi, have I "made Touhou into something it's not"? If I want to engage in VIGOROUS ACTS OF COITUS with [insert youkai here], have I "made Touhou into something it's not"? If I play one of the non-canon Tasogare Frontier doujin games, have I "made Touhou into something it's not"?

Give us a fucking definition for how you define the kinds of fans that must be expelled from the fanbase.

>I do believe that hardcore porn and romantic stories are not Touhou. Now, it's possible to do both while only deviating, rather than ignoring, canon. I don't know why you would, but you can do it if you actually tried.
And? Dumb memetic and gag comedy, is that "not Touhou"?

>What preconceptions? I don't go into Touhou thinking "ZUN has this or that opinion."
This should have gone into the other post, as it's about Gensokyo proper rather than about doujinshi, but here it is.

You have preconceptions of Touhou Project that appear to have come from being raised in some ridiculous TVTropes kool-aid cult, so that you pattern-match Touhou Project to TVTropes definitions of shit like "Blue and Orange Morality", "The Fair Folk", "False Utopia" and then anchoring onto these tropes rather than the actual text itself. This is an awful analytical starting point. But hey, lots of people have awful priors, everyone starts somewhere.

But your problem is that you read literally everything in such a way as to confirm these priors if there is ANY room for interpretation that would confirm these priors. All subjective in-universe observations can be discarded because the character was insane or evil or compromised. All arguments as to the language ZUN uses can be explained away by claiming that he was just being ironic.

This is not arguing from the text. If you took 100 random people and made them read a few chapters of SaBND, not a single one not pre-primed with a very particular set of beliefs would say, "this manga illustrates the blue and orange morality of the main characters, and is meant to demonstrate that faeries are just as terrifying as man-eating beasts." Why? Because they're going to draw inferences about SaBND _from the text_, which suggests one thing obviously, and can only be made to suggest something else once you load it down with a shitton of carefully chosen interpretive context.

Let's take Aya doing the dumb newspaper prank thing. If this appeared in a random-ass one-shot 4koma somewhere not a single person who read it would think, "What a terrifying series of events that was, machinations engineered by strange and incomprehensible beings. No man could ever fathom the ineffable ways of this mysterious Aya character." Anyone who concluded this would be completely fucking bananas. How do you, then, extract this conclusion? By superimposing a specifically cherry-picked set of arguments and information from outside the text.

1. "Aya is hundreds of years old! Isn't it weird for a grown-ass woman to be playing pranks, at her age?"
2. "Why would a newspaper editor prank anyone? We'd consider it insane if the owner of the New York Times spent his time playing juvenile pranks!"
3. "You wouldn't prank a bishop, would you? Wouldn't it be weird to engage in juvenile antics with a dignified man of the cloth?"
4. "Tengu aren't humans! They're the same as all other youkai in Gensokyo, complicit in a massive crime against humanity spanning generations."
5. "Sometimes a youkai SEEMS like she's being your friend, but that just means you got lucky. You could have just as easily been killed. Nobody can know what they're thinking."

The way you seem to mentally approach this situation is to assert all of these extra statements with practical certainty, superimpose them onto the situation, and (unsurprisingly) arrive at a conclusion that supports what you already believed about Aya. This is a _poor_ method of textual analysis. It permits beliefs to essentially be used as proof of themselves while masquerading as proof from the text.

(Post resubmitted for typos and clarity.)

>>19848691
That "don't talk about it" attitude ZUN used to have about his older games has been abandoned. He was like that in the early 2000s. His tone and opinion changed recently, as I'm sure you know and hopefully didn't purposefully leave out for your sinister agenda. The most recent and official word by ZUN on PC-98 to Windows canonocity is basically that it's the same universe and setting but any contradictions are immediately expunged or overridden by Windows canon. Anyway, "youkai moe" means exactly what it says. Moe by itself means adorable, attractive, or cute but "moe" can attach itself to any personality trait or physical trait in order to create a new type of moe. For instance, I could say that you're autism moe. I find your walls of text endearingly autistic. "Youkai moe" means delightfully youkai-like.

>>19847131
I don't care, I was never trying to hide. And I actually tried being a namefag this week, and people didn't want it.

>>19847428
I do have a bad habit of letting things slip away and get out of control. But most of my arguments are still somewhat tied to my original point, even if its in a increasingly more distant way and I should probably drop some of them.

>>19847586
>He doesn't answer the question that actually matters.
About what I expected from scum like you. Although it's not like a answer exists anyway, for the simple reason that what i'm doing is not actually shitposting or thread derailment.

>>19848795
>His tone and opinion changed recently, as I'm sure you know and hopefully didn't purposefully leave out for your sinister agenda.
Now that you mention it, I remember the AWA thing, but PC-98 comes up so rarely that I had forgotten and mentally overrode them with the early-2000s documents I was looking at much more recently. I would have liked to hear the original wording used since AFAIK there was some sort of fuckup at AX about it but thanks to con fascists no such video exists.

>I find your walls of text endearingly autistic. "Youkai moe" means delightfully youkai-like.
I agree it's not just "a cute youkai," but I feel like most usages of X moe basically presuppose at least some kind of emotional attachment as part of that "delightfulness," which according to our friend an emotion that nobody is supposed to have towards these characters.

>>19848886
Well then he's just a retard. It's not like every character is a blood thirsty monster. Yuuka is comically youkai-ish in that she strikes fear into most everyone yet she really isn't dangerous at all unless you challenge her. Her danger level is listed as "extremely high" and her human friendship level as "worst" but she frequents the human village and is described as being "not interested in the average human" as well as "polite". Yuuka is only interested in power. She likes fighting strong people and even then she will not kill them as she fights with rules and stops once the other side agrees to take a loss. ZUN describes her as truly "youkai-like". The only time he ever uses this description other than for Yuuka is for Yukari. Yuuka may seem sadistic in MS and PoFV but, really, she's just playing the part of being a youkai. She's comically youkai-like. Truly youkai moe.

>>19848841
People didn't want it on /vg/ because they're afraid of becoming a circlejerk... they're that retarded.
You could put on a trip or name here and nobody would care, you'd be doing everyone a favour.

>>19830282
Nobody spotted the error for days until I came along.

>>19806119
It doesn't need to be "saved", the series is doing perfectly fine. Also an anime is what would kill it for good by attracting millions of tenthnaries.
If anything what it needs to be saved from is the likes of you.

>>19849305
Yeah this. Please, please start using a trip, although committing suicide would be just as good.

>>19848615
>Not the person you're talking to but the second issue of Strange Creators in Outer World confirmed that Remilia was indeed the perpetrator of the vampire incident.
Regardless of if she was the actual perpetrator of that incident, referring to Remilia as an inhuman bizarro scary folk shit based on a 20 year old incident and her behaviour on the outside world doesn't really apply compared to what she has done on the recent 15 years or so.

>>19850332
I never defended le grimsokyo autist, I only fact checked that other guy. But on another note, the SDM hasn't stopped serving human. Remilia's human friendship level is "very low". Yes, another human has been let in the SDM to sleep the night but that was a villager. No one can harm a villager under contract. Outsiders and those spirited away would be free game. I, personally, don't think you could self insert yourself in a canon Gensokyo and survive unless you have some crazy powerful abilities or if you stay within the human village 24/7.

>>19850834
Oh I'm just restating the original point because otherwise either me or someone else will lose track of it. And even so you fact checked him, it doesn't change anything as Remilia's behaviour did improve. She still drinks blood but that's because she needs it to survive and she's a light eater anyway.
>I, personally, don't think you could self insert yourself in a canon Gensokyo and survive unless you have some crazy powerful abilities or if you stay within the human village 24/7.
I agree, when you arrive to Gensokyo it's like a newborn turtle trying to reach the sea until you get to somewhere safe like the village or with a human friendly 2hu like Reimu, from that point it's either stay on the village or go back to the outside world.

>>19850956
Oh yeah, Remilia is not a rampaging monster anymore. She got put in her place with the contract. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just willfully ignorant.

>>19848615
>Not the person you're talking to but the second issue of Strange Creators in Outer World confirmed that Remilia was indeed the perpetrator of the vampire incident.
Wasn't that one of the parts that wasn't written by ZUN?

>>19851162
It was in the "Who's Who of Humans and Youkai in Gensokyo" section. ZUN writes that.
>The Scarlet Mist Incident is notable for being the first time spellcards were used in Gensokyo. Before the rules were established, Remilia, who had come to Gensokyo along with the Scarlet Devil Mansion, had rampaged however she pleased until the other youkai of the time were sick of it. Immediately after the rules were established to reign in this new "rascal", she started the Scarlet Mist Incident, as if to use them as soon as possible. In that sense you could say she is a spellcard veteran.

>>19851127
This is a bit unrelated to everything else, but as said on >>19836794 and >>19836801 youkai do behave pretty decently in Gensokyo. An example similar to Remilia is the snake youkai from India that ate at restaurants and disappeared without paying the bill, so he got lectured by Mamizou on how to properly behave in Gensokyo and everyone seems to follows the rules willingfully.

>>19851329
Yes, Gensokyo is balanced. That is the whole purpose of its existence. This only applies to residents though. Outsiders would not fare well unless they themselves are powerful.

>>19848560
>If that's all that's necessary to count as including "themes, ideas, and world
What matters is that it doesn't contradict them, while other elements of Touhou do include the themes, ideas, and world of japanese mythology. Meanwhile, most Touhou hentai might as well take place in Scotland and replace every character with The Rock wearing various wigs.

>Is there a reason your opinion should be regarded as universal
No, obviously. But I can safely say that most people that play fangames want it to feel the property it’s derived from, otherwise they might as well play literally anything else. This is even more true for Doujins/fan fiction.

>But even if we grant that it is about Touhou fans specifically, that's irrelevant; I asked for evidence that many other people believe your specific interpretation: "deliberately obnoxious parody of bad Touhou fans" (verbatim quote). The TVTropes posts you're quoting do not indicate that they subscribe to your interpretation.
Like I said, in the absence of any archived threads this is the best I could find. If you don’t think it’s strong enough, then I'm willing to concede on this point. Even if I do still want to point out that its proof that I'm not the only one that thinks Sumireko’s story is meta commentary, which is what matters to me.

>Causing incidents is not "insane" or "incomprehensible."
Remember that time the USA threatened to Nuke Mexico, both nations send troops to the border, who then shot at each other with water pistols until they filled their “conflict” quota and went home? Wasn’t that a completely normal thing that happened?

>But to arrive in a new territory with a bang and assert yourself as top dog is still not incomprehensible.
I would say it’s pretty fucking bizarre to do that by going on a rampage, that’s now how any sane humans would do it anyhow.

>Even high level bratty ojous are made to be relatable characters rater than the Western notion in which the supernatural is held to be incomprehensible.
It’s a theme in both western and eastern mythology. And it doesn’t just cover creatures with ineffability, like YHVH, but also, creatures whose logic, morality and way of thinking is simply impossible for Humans to understand. You might be able to understand “why” Remilia decided to block out the sun with red mist, but the underlying reasons why the fuck she thought that was a good idea are pretty much incomprehensible to any sane human mind.

>The actions they take, like playing dumb pranks, are perfectly understandable.
Playing dumb pranks, as an action, is understandable. Doing so because you want Fairies to be viewed as terrifying as other Youkai is not, at least if you don’t have the kind of insane Youkai mindset that would view that as a good thing.

>Again, the characteristic of fair folk is "incomprehensibility."
Not necessarily, they don’t really have one single defining characteristic as much as several somewhat characteristic ones. It’s a bit like how ZUN uses “Youkai-like” to describe characters.

>The vast majority of named characters are not confirmed or implied for killing anyone they meet.
Some of the weaker Youkai characters are strongly implied to kill people. And going by the lore books, that Is normal Youkai behavior.

>They COULD kill you or befriend you, yes, but so could every jackoff you meet on the street.
Perhaps, but most people won’t make such a decision based on if you give them something to eat or if you’re entertaining enough. In fact, most people will neither befriend or murder you if you randomly stumble across them in the woods. Most Youkai would.

>How many of these contexts were "madness"? Most of them? Some of them? Which ones?
Some of them, for the reasons I already explained.

>>19848739
>What "people" and "mindset" are you talking about?
Touhou “fans” that view Gensokyo as their own personal wish fulfillment playground. I've explained this already.

>have I "made Touhou into something it's not"?
Kind off. Yes, but it’s harmless. No, but it’s misguided. Depends on which game and why.

>PC-98 assumptions are irrelevant to the worldview of modern Touhou.
Not necessarily. New lore might take precedents, but the PC-98 games are not completely non-canon.

>You have preconceptions of Touhou Project that appear to have come from being raised in some ridiculous TVTropes kool-aid cult, so that you pattern-match Touhou Project to TVTropes definitions of shit like "Blue and Orange Morality", "The Fair Folk", "False Utopia" and then anchoring onto these tropes rather than the actual text itself.
Nonsense. I like using tropes because it’s a convenient shorthand to explain complex ideas. This idea that it’s the basis of my opinions regarding Touhou is based on absolutely nothing. If anything, the people on /jp/ are more responsible for my view of Youkai as inhuman and strange, as they love to use blue and orange morality to excuse their behavior.

>All subjective in-universe observations can be discarded because the character was insane or evil or compromised.
Some subjective in universe observations can be discarded, or taken with a grain of salt, when viewed in context.

>All arguments as to the language ZUN uses can be explained away by claiming that he was just being ironic.
Some of ZUN words can be dismissed if he actively goes out of the way to contradict them in the games/print works.

>This is not arguing from the text. If you took 100 random people and made them read a few chapters of SaBND, not a single one not pre-primed with a very particular set of beliefs would say, "this manga illustrates the blue and orange morality of the main characters, and is meant to demonstrate that faeries are just as terrifying as man-eating beasts."
1: I never claimed that is what the manga was about. 2: I never claimed the Faires were actually right. 3: I never claimed SaBND had a raison d'etre period. 4: What the hell man? What the hell?


>Let's take Aya doing the dumb newspaper prank thing. If this appeared in a random-ass one-shot 4koma somewhere not a single person who read it would think, "What a terrifying series of events that was, machinations engineered by strange and incomprehensible beings. No man could ever fathom the ineffable ways of this mysterious Aya character." Anyone who concluded this would be completely fucking bananas. How do you, then, extract this conclusion? By superimposing a specifically cherry-picked set of arguments and information from outside the text.
What the fuck kind of argument is that? If you show a random nobody a 4-panel gag comic about Aya doing a newspaper prank without any context or foreknowledge of Touhou, then they wouldn’t think anything of it expect that this Touhou thing is maybe some kind of dumb comedy. Guess what? If you show somebody that one bit of FS where Reimu kills the fortune teller without any context or foreknowledge, then those people would probably think Touhou is some kind of dark fantasy story. Neither assumption is correct.

You seem to have a hard time grasping this, but context matters. Aya doing a stupid newspaper prank is, in the context of Gensokyo and the Touhou universe, an example of weird inhuman Youkai behavior. Not as inhuman as Yukari abducting and murdering people or Yuuka’s usual behavior, but still an example. Meanwhile, if Aya was a character in The Godfather, I would draw a very different conclusion.

>The way you seem to mentally approach this situation is to assert all of these extra statements with practical certainty, superimpose them onto the situation, and (unsurprisingly) arrive at a conclusion that supports what you already believed about Aya. This is a _poor_ method of textual analysis. It permits beliefs to essentially be used as proof of themselves while masquerading as proof from the text.
The way I mentally approach Touhou, or any fictional work, is to look at the situation, put it into a larger context, and then try to draw some kind of conclusion from it. This is the way most people, I like to think you as well, do basic textual analysis of works longer than ten words. And it allows me to draw conclusions that are supported by text without ignoring equally important text elsewhere.

>>19848886
>emotional attachment as part of that "delightfulness," which according to our friend an emotion that nobody is supposed to have towards these characters.
Eh... Why do you think that? I don't think you should be feeling romantic or sexual attachment to any of them. But I'm not telling people not to give a fuck.

>>19848941
Yuuka is a pretty weird example even by the standards of Youkai, and I actually most agree with your opinions about her. Her Youkai-ish nature is mostly played for laugh, especially in comparison to the other "Youkai-like" Youkai Yukari. Who is completely evil.

>>19849305
The poll spoke, and I will listen to it. Sorry.

>>19846389
>please explain to me how going to a thread called "How do we save Touhou" and posting how I think we should save Touhou is either shitposting or thread derailment.
Because almost everything you say is objectively wrong?

>>19850136
No to either choice.

>>19850332
She doesn't seem to have changed much since then, so I don't think it's unreasonable. And considering Touhou runs on comic book time, it was probably more like five years ago.

>>19850834
While I agree with your assessment of Remilia. I do think she would be willing to let a spirited away human that stumbled across her mansion live if they can give her a reason not to add them to her blood supply. She's clearly very driven by her desire to stave off boredom, and she already gets enough blood from Yukari.

>>19850956
>when you arrive to Gensokyo it's like a newborn turtle trying to reach the sea until you get to somewhere safe like the village or with a human friendly
That's pretty much a perfect description. I might steal it for the future.

>>19851127
She's not a rampaging monster anymore. But like I said, I doubt that's because of any great change on her part.

>>19851347
Well, it's balanced insofar that Humans are powerless and oppressed, but Gensokyo is still somewhat livable if you don't ask too many questions or get any silly ideas.

>>19851541
*Subjectively wrong.

And regardless, that's still neither shitposting or thread derailment.

>>19851648
>And regardless, that's still neither shitposting or thread derailment
You come to /jp/ to shitpost.
The very reason why this thread exists is because you want to shitpost.
You have an answer, now all you are doing is making a fool out of yourself. Stop trying to talk about other topics. Your question was why Touhou doesn't have an anime, to which the answer is very fucking simple. ZUN doesn't want one.
You have no reason to continue arguing.

I await the day of your ban so /jp/ no longer has to deal with you.
Second and last post to you. Good day sir.

>>19851431
> But I'm not telling people not to give a fuck.
But aren't you telling that the type of people that basically do give a fuck about it should just leave the series?
>The poll spoke, and I will listen to it. Sorry.
You know well that /vg/ is not /jp/, and there's not the same issues with someone namefagging on a general than on a board. So please do everyone a favour and at least make a poll for you to use a name/trip on /jp/.

>>19851672
>You come to /jp/ to shitpost.
No.

>The very reason why this thread exists is because you want to shitpost.
I didn't make this thread, you conspiracy theorist.

> await the day of your ban so /jp/ no longer has to deal with you.
I'm never going to get banned.

>>19851688
>But aren't you telling that the type of people that basically do give a fuck about it should just leave the series?
I'm telling a type of people that pretend to give a fuck about Touhou, but don't actually give a fuck, to leave.

>But aren't you telling that the type of people that basically do give a fuck about it should just leave the series?
I'll think about it.

>>19851688
>>19851724
>So please do everyone a favour and at least make a poll for you to use a name/trip on /jp/.
I'll think about it.

Please use sage when discussing shit in kuso threads.
Thank you.

>>19851772
OP keeps bumping the thread like a faggot

>>19851772
Perfect reason for the "bring back visable sage" argument

>>19851736
What's there to think about? Your posts are pretty well recognizables by anyone on this site, more so with the themes you're infamous of. Just because you've been mistaken a few times doesn't mean your posting style is any less noticeable. You've already beaten all of the points of being anonymous, people are aware when you post, and you've gotten a trail behind you to the point where you've become a known (shit)poster with a background of shitposts and ruining the life of everyone, at this point you might as well put on a trip so people that don't want to deal with you can avoid you and you'd be free from being annoyed (even if you're the cause of it). The only reason there is for you to not put on a trip is that you are shitposting or you're an attention whore and you won't be able to start shit if you get filtered or people decide not to mess with you.

Fuck, I forgot to sage.

>>19806119
The funny thing about this is that over the past 2/3 years Touhou has been fairly steady. We even had a bit of a peak in certain areas a couple years back. I think the only part that's been steadily decreasing numerically has been google search trends which doesn't equate popularity

>>19851359
>What matters is that it doesn't contradict them
But it BLATANTLY contradicts some of them. Real yamabiko look like this, not like human girls. The real Prince Shotoku died and stayed dead. The real Kaguya-hime went to the moon and stayed there.

>But I can safely say that most people that play fangames want it to feel the property it’s derived from
So you believe that "most people" consider Patchcon and the Satori game to be failures because they primarily use the characters from Touhou Project rather than "themes, ideas, and world"?

>Even if I do still want to point out that its proof that I'm not the only one that thinks Sumireko’s story is meta commentary, which is what matters to me.
You have a soft claim and a hard claim here. The soft claim is that Sumireko is a character that is a little bit meta. The hard claim is that Sumireko is a great big fuck you from ZUN to fans. You can believe both if you want, but they're still very different claims, and evidence for one isn't evidence for the other.

>Remember that time the USA threatened to Nuke Mexico, both nations send troops to the border, who then shot at each other with water pistols until they filled their “conflict” quota and went home? Wasn’t that a completely normal thing that happened?
Gangs do this from time to time with real guns. But danmaku isn't war; it's sports.

>I would say it’s pretty fucking bizarre to do that by going on a rampage, that’s now how any sane humans would do it anyhow.
It's something often seen in fiction from yakuza, delinquents, and occasionally with fantasy characters.

>It’s a theme in both western and eastern mythology.
Care to give any examples of Eastern mythology that highlights it? Published analysis, not you personally looking at a story and saying "I didn't understand that, so fair folk."

>creatures whose logic, morality and way of thinking is simply impossible for Humans to understand.
Ineffability. Incomprehensibility. Essentially the same thing.

>You might be able to understand “why” Remilia decided to block out the sun with red mist, but the underlying reasons why the fuck she thought that was a good idea are pretty much incomprehensible to any sane human mind.
Because she thought it would be fun, because she wanted to test out the incident rules, because incidents need to be caused every now and then and she might as well be the one, because she wanted to play danmaku. This is easily comprehensible to... just about everyone.

>Doing so because you want Fairies to be viewed as terrifying as other Youkai is not, at least if you don’t have the kind of insane Youkai mindset that would view that as a good thing.
It's part of a tribal reputation. For a youkai reputation can be a matter of pride. Adding the adjective "insane" and "incomprehensible" to every action a Touhou character take is not remotely convincing.

>Not necessarily, they don’t really have one single defining characteristic as much as several somewhat characteristic ones.
Incomprehensibility is a defining character of "fair folk" without which the term is stripped of almost all of its identity.

>Some of the weaker Youkai characters
This is a weaker claim. You claimed that MOST youkai are '[incomprehensible] (wo)manchildren that might either kill or befriend you depending on their own weird rules," when in fact, this is not the case.

>In fact, most people will neither befriend or murder you if you randomly stumble across them in the woods. Most Youkai would.
Most youkai obey the rules, and will not murder you if you stumble across them in the woods.

If the best you can do to explain that a character is inane is "they acted like a manchild" you've fallen a million miles short of the fair folk line. Most people who play video games into their thirties are manchildren.

>Some of them, for the reasons I already explained.
"I already did this argument I'm not doing it" is universally a horseshit argument.

>>19852190
Forgot image.

>>19851378
>Touhou “fans” that view Gensokyo as their own personal wish fulfillment playground. I've explained this already.
That's a random pile of words. What does this MEAN? Offer some sort of test that can be used to determine whether someone must be expelled or not.

>Kind off. Yes, but it’s harmless. No, but it’s misguided. Depends on which game and why.
What determines whether "harm" has occurred? What should be done about it when it happens?

>Nonsense. I like using tropes because it’s a convenient shorthand to explain complex ideas.
Tropes are retarded because each comes with a world of baggage and are used to project that baggage onto series where they have no place being used other than a superficial resemblance. I assumed TVTropes was your original haunt you clearly didn't start out in /jp/ and have referenced it numerous times.

>1: I never claimed that is what the manga was about. 2: I never claimed the Faires were actually right. 3: I never claimed SaBND had a raison d'etre period.
"SaBND is about fairies being weird blue and orange morality childish trickster spirits." I accept 2.
>4: What the hell man? What the hell?
This is what everyone who isn't you thinks every time you say something about Gensokyo.

>Some subjective in universe observations can be discarded, or taken with a grain of salt, when viewed in context.
The "context" is that of your existing beliefs about Gensokyo. Everything that doesn't fit with what you already believe you auto-discard.
>Some of ZUN words can be dismissed if he actively goes out of the way to contradict them in the games/print works.
If you identify specific textual contradictions between text, then yes, you can bring it up to weaken what ZUN says - but you cannot dismiss it outright, and you never actually do this anyway. You don't use ZUN's words to dismiss ZUN's words; you use your existing beliefs about Gensokyo to dismiss ZUN's words.

>You seem to have a hard time grasping this, but context matters.
Your "context" consists of your preexisting beliefs of Gensokyo.
>Aya doing a stupid newspaper prank is, in the context of Gensokyo and the Touhou universe, an example of weird inhuman Youkai behavior.
Explain what's "inhuman" about it without using the word "inhuman" or "insane." The best you've done is say it's manchild behavior, which is not remotely close to incomprehensible.

> This is the way most people, I like to think you as well, do basic textual analysis of works longer than ten words.
If you want to provide context you should provide specific textual context to indicate that ZUN wanted to communicate that SaBND was an example of Aya being insane. Your textual analysis consists mostly of "Aya is insane, therefore, this is an example of her being insane." It's garbage. If you want to provide context provide actual context: specific passages from in-universe or out of universe.

>>19852249
Forgot image again because these walls of text are too long.

>>19851359
>Remember that time the USA threatened to Nuke Mexico, both nations send troops to the border, who then shot at each other with water pistols until they filled their “conflict” quota and went home? Wasn’t that a completely normal thing that happened?
A few years back a rogue mexican helicopter opened fire on the border, filled the conflict quota and went home. And yeah nothing else came out from it.

>>19852249
>But it BLATANTLY contradicts some of them.
It doesn't contradict, but expands and deviates. The rare few times there are straight up contradictions, they are explained away.

>So you believe that "most people" consider Patchcon and the Satori game to be failures because they primarily use the characters from Touhou Project rather than "themes, ideas, and world"
I've never played either game, so no idea.

>You have a soft claim and a hard claim here.
My soft claim is that Sumireko is a deconstruction of the usual Touhou wish fulfillment fantasy. And my hard claim is that her entire character's personality is a parody of Touhou fans. I would say one leads into the other pretty naturally.

>Gangs do this from time to time with real guns. But danmaku isn't war; it's sports.
I don't remember a sport team ever trying to steal spring.

>It's something often seen in fiction from yakuza, delinquents, and occasionally with fantasy characters.
There's a difference between beating up some people in the school yard or a back alley, and going on a Grand Theft Auto style rampage across a magical land with a horde of supernatural creates at your side.

>Care to give any examples of Eastern mythology that highlights it? Published analysis, not you personally looking at a story and saying "I didn't understand that, so fair folk."
I'm not going to bother looking up published analysis, that's just too much effort. Especially when you've given me zero evidence that supernatural creatures being incomprehensible is "Western philosophy".

>Ineffability. Incomprehensibility. Essentially the same thing.
They are literally not the same thing.

>This is easily comprehensible to... just about everyone.
The fact that she wanted to have some fun and test out the new mock battle system is understandable, the way she went about it was fucking insane. It's like threatening to bomb a city because you want to have a fist fight with the police. Just join a boxing club.

>It's part of a tribal reputation.
Which tribe? Youkai don't live in tribes, and Humans that do have no interest in being viewed as terrifying towards anybody expect their enemy.

>Adding the adjective "insane" and "incomprehensible" to every action a Touhou character take is not remotely convincing.
Well, I don't know else to say. Youkai don't follow normal human behavior, I don't know how deep your ass would have to be for somebody not to realize that. Humans don't cause incidents. Humans don't want the rest of humanity to be afraid of them. Humans don't murder random strangers in the woods because they felt like it. Humans don't need to meet some kind of conflict quota or cease to exist.

>This is a weaker claim
No, it's not. The Youkai we see in the games only make up about 1% of Gensokyo's Youkai population, with it being made pretty clear that the rest act more like Rumia or Mystia than Kasen.

>Most youkai obey the rules, and will not murder you if you stumble across them in the woods.
If you are a outsider, which you are, then there are no rules protecting you and they can do what they want.

>If the best you can do to explain that a character is inane is "they acted like a manchild" you've fallen a million miles short of the fair folk line.
I've been explaining why Youkai are insane for hours already. The fact that you keep trying to pathetically dismiss it with "But Humans might also sometimes do this for completely different reasons" doesn't change that.

>"I already did this argument I'm not doing it" is universally a horseshit argument.
Again, I don't know what else to tell you. I've already said everything worth saying about the three fairies and their lifestyle/behavior.

>>19852754
It seems like you finally found someone as stubborn as you huh? Feels good getting everything you said ignored doesn't it?
>that the rest act more like Rumia or Mystia
Rumia the "flesh eating youkai" got nagged by Aya because she was too lazy to attack humans, let alone eat them and she said that after trying with Reimu she didn't feel like preying anymore. Mystia is uncertain as far as I know other than dobious claims on the game.

>>19852249
>Offer some sort of test that can be used to determine whether someone must be expelled or not.
Do you want to unironically and sincerely live in Gensokyo?
If yes, you failed.

Do you want to unironically and sincerely date Touhou characters?
If yes, you failed.

Do you unironically and sincerely think Touhou characters would fuck you?
If yes, you failed.

>What determines whether "harm" has occurred? What should be done about it when it happens?
If you start to believe any of the above is true. You can fix it by actually reading the print works/playing the games and realizing that such ideas are nonsense.

>Tropes are retarded because each comes with a world of baggage and are used to project that baggage onto series where they have no place being used other than a superficial resemblance.
Your opinion. Also, I was never really a part of Tv Tropes community.

>"SaBND is about fairies being weird blue and orange morality childish trickster spirits."
Is not the same thing as "this manga illustrates the blue and orange morality of the main characters, and is meant to demonstrate that faeries are just as terrifying as man-eating beasts."

>This is what everyone who isn't you thinks every time you say something about Gensokyo.
Nonsense. They would never be that polite about it.


>Everything that doesn't fit with what you already believe you auto-discard.
Like? Off the top of my head, the only things i've discarded are claims that Touhou is a paradise for Humans (Which was actually true for a few years, until ZUN heavily retconned the setting) and some of Kanako's claims regarding spiritually (Which are opinions, and obviously self serving once's at that).

>If you identify specific textual contradictions between text, then yes, you can bring it up to weaken what ZUN says - but you cannot dismiss it outright
Claiming ZUN was being ironic or that Gensokyo is only a paradise for Humanity is not dismissing it.

>Your "context" consists of your preexisting beliefs of Gensokyo.
The preexisting beliefs I gained by reading the text, yes.

>Explain what's "inhuman" about it without using the word "inhuman" or "insane."
It speaks of a strange mindset, nonsensical priorities, complete lack of understanding of human society, and immaturity unbefitting of somebody a thousand years old inherit to being a Youkai to play a prank on a local religious authority/balancer for for no other reason than you felt like it at that moment.

>If you want to provide context you should provide specific textual context to indicate that ZUN wanted to communicate that SaBND was an example of Aya being insane. Your textual analysis consists mostly of "Aya is insane, therefore, this is an example of her being insane." It's garbage. If you want to provide context provide actual context: specific passages from in-universe or out of universe.
1: That's not what he wanted to communicate, stop putting words into my mouth. 2: My textual analysis is "Aya is a Youkai (This is a fact), her pranking Reimu for seemingly no reason whatsoever besides it amused her is Youkai-like behavior (While pranks overall are more the domain of Fairies, Youkai both big and small have been shown and mentioned in both the games and print works to engage in pranking behavior. Examples include Nue during UFO, Tewi's behavior in both POFV and Inaba of the Moon, the Unnamed bake-danuki in Oriental Sacred place, the Unnamed Kitsune in WaHH, and some of Yukari's more lighthearted stunts), it was supposed to be a joke (The whole thing was done in such a way where it was obviously supposed to be comedic).

>>19852249
>Offer some sort of test that can be used to determine whether someone must be expelled or not.
Do you want to unironically and sincerely live in Gensokyo?
If yes, you failed.

Do you want to unironically and sincerely date Touhou characters?
If yes, you failed.

Do you unironically and sincerely think Touhou characters would fuck you?
If yes, you failed.

>What determines whether "harm" has occurred? What should be done about it when it happens?
If you start to believe any of the above is true. You can fix it by actually reading the print works/playing the games and realizing that such ideas are nonsense.

>Tropes are retarded because each comes with a world of baggage and are used to project that baggage onto series where they have no place being used other than a superficial resemblance.
Your opinion. Also, I was never really a part of Tv Tropes community.

>"SaBND is about fairies being weird blue and orange morality childish trickster spirits."
Is not the same thing as "this manga illustrates the blue and orange morality of the main characters, and is meant to demonstrate that faeries are just as terrifying as man-eating beasts."

>This is what everyone who isn't you thinks every time you say something about Gensokyo.
Nonsense. They would never be that polite about it.


>Everything that doesn't fit with what you already believe you auto-discard.
Like? Off the top of my head, the only things i've discarded are claims that Touhou is a paradise for Humans (Which was actually true for a few years, until ZUN heavily retconned the setting) and some of Kanako's claims regarding spiritually (Which are opinions, and obviously self serving once's at that).

>If you identify specific textual contradictions between text, then yes, you can bring it up to weaken what ZUN says - but you cannot dismiss it outright
Claiming ZUN was being ironic or that Gensokyo is only a paradise for Humanity is not dismissing it.

>Your "context" consists of your preexisting beliefs of Gensokyo.
The preexisting beliefs I gained by reading the text, yes.

>Explain what's "inhuman" about it without using the word "inhuman" or "insane."
It speaks of a strange mindset, nonsensical priorities, complete lack of understanding of human society, and immaturity unbefitting of somebody a thousand years old inherit to being a Youkai to play a prank on a local religious authority/balancer for for no other reason than you felt like it at that moment.

>If you want to provide context you should provide specific textual context to indicate that ZUN wanted to communicate that SaBND was an example of Aya being insane. Your textual analysis consists mostly of "Aya is insane, therefore, this is an example of her being insane." It's garbage. If you want to provide context provide actual context: specific passages from in-universe or out of universe.
1: That's not what he wanted to communicate, stop putting words into my mouth. 2: My textual analysis is "Aya is a Youkai (This is a fact), her pranking Reimu for seemingly no reason whatsoever besides it amused her is Youkai-like behavior (While pranks overall are more the domain of Fairies, Youkai both big and small have been shown and mentioned in both the games and print works to engage in pranking behavior. Examples include Nue during UFO, Tewi's behavior in both POFV and Inaba of the Moon, the Unnamed bake-danuki in Oriental Sacred place, the Unnamed Kitsune in WaHH, and some of Yukari's more lighthearted stunts), it was supposed to be a joke (The whole thing was done in such a way where it was obviously supposed to be comedic).

>>19852267
I can actually see the resemblance. I also don't think it's impossible that such a creature could shapeshift, and that it would choose to shapeshift into a dog looking girl.

>>19852565
Source?

>>19852878
>It seems like you finally found someone as stubborn as you huh?
I've had worse. This person is more thick than stubborn.

>ia the "flesh eating youkai" got nagged by Aya because she was too lazy to attack humans, let alone eat them and she said that after trying with Reimu she didn't feel like preying anymore. Mystia is uncertain as far as I know other than dobious claims on the game.
Rumia is a lazy bum, and it's uncertain if Mystia is a active predator, but both characters would almost certainly eat a outsider they stumbled across.

>>19853031
I know I'm going to regret trying to engage with you, but regardless,
>Do you want to unironically and sincerely date Touhou characters?
>If yes, you failed.
>Do you unironically and sincerely think Touhou characters would fuck you?
>If yes, you failed.
Like okay, most of them are human-eating monstrosities, but what's wrong with wanting to date the likes of Kosuzu, Sanae and Sumireko? Also that other thing. They're human girls you know, I'm sure they'd at least give /jp/sies a shot if they cleaned up their act.

>>19807457
>represent the asian races
>bring an end to imperialism
damn I didn't know that these things required murdering hundreds of thousands of chinese, koreans and other civilians

>>19852754
>It doesn't contradict
Mythology: Kaguya-hime returned to the moon. Gensoyko: Kaguya-hime set up shop on earth. This is a contradiction. Period.

If it's enough to "explain things away," so do H-doujinshi, with drugs and dicks and what have you.

>I've never played either game, so no idea.
Well, since I did play the game, talked with countless people who did play the game, and know that Tasogare Frontier is firmly in good standing with ZUN, I will tell you affirmatively: no, most people do not consider it a failure, because most people judge the game as a game, not by its faithfulness to the "themes, ideas, and world" of Touhou Project.

>I would say one leads into the other pretty naturally.
It doesn't matter how "naturally" you think it flows. You claimed that Sumireko "deliberately obnoxious parody of bad Touhou fans," and you claimed that many people, including ZUN, shared this opinion. Find these people. Don't find evidence of people who believe tangentially related things and say that because they believe X it would be natural for them to also believe Y. There are tens of thousands of fans out there. I'm asking you to find one.

>I don't remember a sport team ever trying to steal spring.
And? Incidents are ritualized events resolved through sport.

>and going on a Grand Theft Auto style rampage across a magical land with a horde of supernatural creates at your side.
There are yakuza stories about this. Also, something that often happened throughout history (minus the supernatural creatures - people go to war with the armies they have), hence why wars are a thing. Explain how this is "incomprehensible."

>Especially when you've given me zero evidence that supernatural creatures being incomprehensible is "Western philosophy".
You have made an affirmative claim about the creatures of Touhou and Eastern mythology. YOU provide evidence that this is the correct paradigm to understand them by. This is why tropes are retarded: "fair folk" are incomprehensible, Touhou characters fit some of the elements of "fair folk," therefore Touhou characters are incomprehensible. Fundamentally this is no more accurate than saying X story has supernatural characters, Y story has supernatural characters, therefore the supernatural characters in story X have the traits as the characters in story Y.

>They are literally not the same thing.
Anything you can comprehend you can put into words. Anything you can put into words you can comprehend.

>It's like threatening to bomb a city because you want to have a fist fight with the police.
Threats to bomb a city are serious, and result in deployment of SWAT teams that shoot to kill. Incidents (with a few exceptions, later) are not. Stop making shitty "X is like Y; Y is stupid; therefore X is stupid" analogies. Analogies are meant to be illustrative; if your argument hinges on one it's a garbage argument.

>Just join a boxing club.
Danmaku is the boxing club of Gensokyo.

>Which tribe? Youkai don't live in tribes
I mean in the sense of a self-identified social group, not literal tribes.
>Humans that do have no interest in being viewed as terrifying towards anybody expect their enemy.
Yakuza and mafia have interests in being viewed as dangerous. For a youkai, the reputation for terror is the same as strength, and wanting to demonstrate it is the same as attempting to demonstrate status.

>Youkai don't follow normal human behavior, I don't know how deep your ass would have to be for somebody not to realize that.
Youkai have certain inhuman traits and behaviors that come with the setting but nothing indicates that the rest of their actions are incomprehensible. If I had a need to wash my hands every ten minutes that would not be "normal" but it would not mean that I, as a person overall, were "insane" or "incomprehensible," or that my thoughts could not be understood.

>The Youkai we see in the games only make up about 1% of Gensokyo's Youkai population
They also make up about 99% of the youkai that people talk about.

>I've been explaining why Youkai are insane for hours already.
No, you haven't. You've CLAIMED they're insane for hours, your best argument being that they act like manchildren, when manchildren even close to aren't even close to insane or incomprehensible.

>>19845294
>I mean, it's obviously not his thing. But I don't expect him to say "BAN THIS SICK FILTH!".
Then what's your point? You keep bringing up ZUN as if he agrees with your stance that these things have no place in being a Touhou fan and we would be "better off without it". The person you're responding to has demonstrably proven that not only does ZUN use artists that have drawn porn, gags, and romance for his own official works, but that he also quite explicitly encourages an ero doujin artist. Hirasaka even continues to draw fairy shipping and Clownpiece ecchi while putting out official fairies mangas.

ZUN not wanting to insert romance into his games because he feels it is not fitting with the story he personally has to tell has NOTHING to do with how he feels about the fans or doujin artists doing it. The idea that he agrees that it's bad is a leap of logic. Touhou's has survived thanks to its vibrant doujin culture, which ZUN is extremely supportive of. And it's quite ridiculous for you as a fan to get mad about doujin creators taking liberties when the creator is encouraging the artists who make these derivative works.

Look dude, I'll level with you, this is a reason why people both here and on /vg/ throw their hands up when trying to talk to you and just call you a faggot, because the end result is the same. The thread will go nowhere and you will not budge, so why bother even engaging in a good-faith argument? You make all these giant, rambling, directionless posts like >>19845660 mentioned, and end up coming to the same exact conclusion you started with. This argument, specifically this key point, is a prime example of this. The other guy has cited multiple interviews, print works, and quotes of ZUN and asked you to do the same, which you don't, you just generalize. You concede he works with doujin artists, yet you continue to hold on your belief that ZUN doesn't like noncanon things either. There isn't a discussion to be had if you're just going to handwaive these things circle back and insist that ZUN "actively dislikes" things like romance in doujinshi when he directly encourages the work. No one has argued anything like "ZUN loves romance and is a secret shipper", but to say he has a problem with his fans enjoying it or producing works revolving around it is simply not correct at all. It is impossible to engage in a good-faith discussion about Touhou with you when you are simply looking for ways to confirm your own notions about Touhou rather than understand a differing viewpoint and reconsider.

There's a reason people are engaging in a normal discussion with this dude >>19848615 >>19850834 but disregard your posts, and it's not because you think Gensokyo is darker and you're a victim of people not liking your opinion, because people are fine talking to this guy.

>"...all of it is a disease that needs to be cured before it kills the body."
The Touhou community has always been full of porn, doujin works and games, and peoples own interpretations of characters/works. This has been true for the entirety of Touhou's lifetime. It will never change, especially because ZUN/doujin artists won't stop it, their fans won't stop consuming it, and people won't stop discussing them on the internet. Touhou is an inherently Japanese series wrapped in the idea of being a doujin game, to suddenly wish to stop the flow of doujin works for it that are deemed "unacceptable" is 1 impossible and 2 not what ZUN would want to do. Your attempts to distance yourself from this statement by saying "no, I don't want to get rid of it all" when you made statements like "all of it must be cured" is amusing backpedaling. The reality is that these kinds of things are running through the veins of Touhou and have been for over a decade. And by trying to draw the line (a line you have not made clear, and you would have to sift through thousands of doujin works to try and pick and choose which you deem completely noncanon and which are acceptable) is ridiculous. Liking/not liking something is fine. I don't like the porn either. But saying people should leave because of the doujin content they enjoy and make is dumb. You're splitting hairs of what people should be able to do with the Touhou property in their derivative works based on nothing other than your own notions of what you think Touhou should be.

People on /jp/, on Japanese message boards, on many websites that discuss Touhou are simply not going to stop posting shit like "I want to use a fairy as an onahole!". People at Comiket and Reitaisai will not stop selling their H doujins where Hatate takes two dicks in her fat ass. You can try to tell them to leave, but they're not going to, so you're stuck crying on western message boards about it, and when people get tired of hearing the same shit over and over again, or tired of being told to leave a series they like, you're surprised that they tell you to fuck off, and play the victim.

>>19853367
The other problem, why you don't receive genuine responses half the time, is because you have complete and utter disdain for this community, and continuously express this in your posts. You have very clearly demonstrated that you think /jp/ is a shitbag community and you obviously think your opinions and interpretations of Touhou are superior to anyone else's on here. This sentiment comes through in your posts and your dramatic use of words like "slanderous scum" to describe people on a fucking niche anonymous image board. /jp/ is a very small part of 4chan as a whole, and a smaller part of that is people here for Touhou. And those people are a small subset of the western fanbase, which is a small subset of Touhou fans as a whole.

There is no logical reason for you to continue to come to /jp/. If you have "plenty" of people who agree with your posts, why the hell do you continue to come to a site you despise, that clearly doesn't agree with you? Presumably you have discussed Touhou with these many people on other websites and found them more responsive to your arguments. And yet you continue to come here, instead. The assertion that every western community is dead is faulty, there are absolutely western communities, they are the ones who run things like thpatch/thcrap/etc, and you had to have run into them if you are actually asserting that there are plenty of people out there that agree with you.

Your idea that "maybe it will change" is fundamentally flawed. Not only has /jp/ always discussed doujin content, but the board is full of shitposters and memers, and people who argue for the sake of arguing. People here wax poetic about the days when the board was wall to wall spam. The idea that if you keep posting here people will suddenly be more receptive, or they will stop liking and discussing the doujin content you hate, or that they will stop being fans of seeing Sanae drink cum and leave the series, is asinine at best. And regardless of that, even if you DID have more people here who agreed with you, people would still call you a colossal faggot, because that's how 4chan works. Crying victim won't change this. You are more likely to find someone sympathetic to you in a community not full of people you hate, no?

Why on earth do you think people should bother giving you the time of day if you have nothing but disdain for the posters here? You don't like being here, and people don't like you posting here. You have to understand the absolute insanity to continue to engage in a community you want nothing to do with, that wants nothing to do with you. You are not in any way forced into posting on 4chan.

It's hard to describe the feeling of watching something you've enjoyed, made a part of your life, and sunk a lot of time volunteering for fan projects slowly stagnate and start to decline.

However, I don't see any point in trying to find something or someone to blame. Look at the history of every fandom. Touhou's decline was and still is inevitable; as original hardcore fans die or lose interest they are slowly replaced by newer fans with no real stake in the core projects and canon materials that make up the heart of touhou. They'll furthermore have little knowledge of the context that touhou was first created in, losing original outside influences and replacing them with a mish-mash of current trends.

Why spend time raging against the natural order of things? We can't stop it as much as we might wish it. Trying to preserve the fandom/restore it to some arbitrary state where things were "better" is as possible as stopping a hurricane from coming ashore and destroying your house. It is more worthwhile to collect the things you cherish and save them by running for higher ground where the storm cannot reach you.

>>19853367
>>19853377
don't bother responding to these with a big wall of text individually quoting every sentence either. that's all i'm giving you, me even responding this much is contributing to the problem, and this thread should have died long ago. but at least I've tried to level with you and explain why you get such an acerbic reaction when you post, and it's not because of you thinking Gensokyo isn't all about porn and has some dark undertones. plenty of people have come through here long before you ever arrived with opinions like this, had nice and engaging discussions about it, and not caused nearly 1/4 of this reaction. people make threads like this intentionally to draw you out of hiding because they want to see people argue and threads devolve into mindless shitflinging, which they have become on both /vg/ and /jp/ when you post.

unless you change your way of thinking you will never find like-minded individuals here who want to engage with you, this is simply a fact.

goodbye.

>>19853043
Everyone that talks to you agrees you're thick as a brick. And of the two examples you gave, one doesn't actively prey on human and the other has done everything but that so your point doesn't have mich ground with those two "dangerous" youkai.

>>19853031
None of the questions you've asked have anything to do with people who sing meme songs like Alice Stole the Precious Thing, or read shipping doujinshi, or want to fuck Touhou Project characters, or play and enjoy non-canonical fangames.

>Do you want to unironically and sincerely live in Gensokyo?
From a quality of life perspective it's no worse than wanting to unironically and sincerely live in India.
>Do you want to unironically and sincerely date Touhou characters?
I'll set this aside since it rests on your "insanity" argument.
>Do you unironically and sincerely think Touhou characters would fuck you?
Even the people who talk all day about wanting to fuck Satori are aware that in canon it would be unlikely. They are engaging in sexual fantasies.

>You can fix it by actually reading the print works/playing the games and realizing that such ideas are nonsense.
Such ideas are non-canon, but people are aware of the difference between canon and non-canon the same way they are able to distinguish fiction and reality. You can call it "nonsense" but your argument is no more objective than someone who claims all fiction is nonsense because it is not real.

>Your opinion. Also, I was never really a part of Tv Tropes community.
Then why do you casually use tropes as a unit of fictional analysis, and how are you aware of a conversation that happened on page 150 of a TVTropes thread?

>Is not the same thing as "this manga illustrates the blue and orange morality of the main characters"
Even "this manga illustrates the blue and orange morality of the main characters" is an outlandish reading.

>Off the top of my head, the only things i've discarded are claims
Literally every single line from the series that says anything positive about Gensokyo, statements which are everywhere. "Still, the fact that we've entered an age where there is practically no more use for the Gensokyo Chronicles means that this is a new, ideal era for both humans and youkai." I'm sure you have a way to explain that one away. I don't even care about it. Same with anything nice Reimu ever said in her life. There is no in-universe observation that you cannot explain away by pointing to the subjectivity of characters.

>Claiming ZUN was being ironic
If you claim that ZUN being ironic, you require evidence demonstrating that it is ironic, which you do not provide. You simply claim it so as to be able to ignore the straight reading or implications of whatever he has sad.

>It speaks of a strange mindset
Wanting to have fun and show off may be eccentric, but not incomprehensible.
>nonsensical priorities
What should her priorities be?
>complete lack of understanding of human society
She doesn't need to.
>and immaturity unbefitting of somebody a thousand years old
Why should a character change her behavior simply because her age has reached a certain number?

Your entire analysis hinges on Remilia behaving in a way that would be inappropriate for a person in ordinary society, therefore she's nuts. This analysis is anachronistic. We here in the real world confirm to real world norms because there are benefits for conforming and consequences for non-conforming. We cease or compartmentalize play when we reach adulthood because we have to go to work. We act mature as adults because if we act immaturely we lose the respect of society, damaging our social relationships and retarding our career advancement. We resist acting on impulses because there are long-term social consequences and social disapproval for doing so.

For someone who doesn't have to deal with any of that, there is nothing "insane" about not conforming.

>2: My textual analysis
All of that is well and fine, but none of it lends any credence to the notion that it can be used as proof that Aya is incomprehensible or insane.

>>19853367
One of the reasons he's still here is because people like me (just me, really) responds to the things he has to say. Truly I enable this cancer.

>>19853367
>H doujins where Hatate takes two dicks in her fat ass
Um, I demand examples of this.

>>19853386
I should add that I don't really mind people enjoying memes and other secondary content without really engaging with the core content or contributing. That's going to happen, it's fairly benign behaviour on the whole, and it can be easily ignored. What I don't really like is that with old fans leaving and being replaced by new fans, the community is increasingly homogenizing. Most of the old fans grew up in the web 1.0 era where specific boards and communities were hived off from each other and developed their own unique cultures. With social media, the community and what it produces (especially in the west, which should be avoided at all costs) looks and behaves like most other things you'd see on /v/, or reddit, or even tumblr and twitter. Even real life stuff like politics is starting to infect the community. It's all the same shit now.

Thank you for reading my essay.

>>19853428
>One of the reasons he's still here is because people like me (just me, really) responds to the things he has to say. >Truly I enable this cancer
I'm sure you're not the only one, but this should be a turning point to stop his madness. Hell, he has admitted that as long as people still respond to him he'll stay.

No, I won't give you a (You)

>>19853689
He doesn't deserve one.

>>19853428
i appreciate your efforts to actually attempt to educate. i probably would have just given up at the insinuation that people who want to fuck touhou characters don't realize that it wouldn't happen in canon. you are a more determined and patient person than i. but at some point you'll probably come to the realization that you just have to cut bait.

i hope you'll at least continue to discuss touhou with the rest of us, or that dude that references SCoOW earlier.

>>19843795
nice original response /jp/ autist

>>19845323
I'm not even from here familia I'm crossboarding just to make fun of you.

>>19806119
ZUN should expand. What about a children card game?

>>19859993
Fuck off Atem.
You won't have another spotless record. Enough hacks for once.

>>19853113
>.but what's wrong with wanting to date the likes of Kosuzu, Sanae and Sumireko?
If you want to date Kosuzu or Sanae, then you've failed question 1. As for Sumireko, have you even read her profile? If you did, you would know there's no way she would let herself get "dragged down" by dating somebody.

>>19853367
>Then what's your point?
That while ZUN is very supportive of fan work, there are trends he doesn't like and might even be trying to discourage in canon. The fact that he doesn't include any romance is one thing, the fact that the only mentions of supernatural romances being a thing are in very negative contexts are another. You can disagree with that, but I don't think it's unreasonable to assume writing doesn't happen by accident.

>The other guy has cited multiple interviews, print works, and quotes of ZUN and asked you to do the same, which you don't, you just generalize.
With two exceptions, I have given the source when asked. Stop lying.

>It is impossible to engage in a good-faith discussion about Touhou with you when you are simply looking for ways to confirm your own notions about Touhou rather than understand a differing viewpoint and reconsider.
I've reconsidered my viewpoint on certain subject matters countless times. Stop lying.


>Touhou is an inherently Japanese series wrapped in the idea of being a doujin game, to suddenly wish to stop the flow of doujin works for it that are deemed "unacceptable"
Now what I want to do. Stop lying.

>>19853377
I do despise a decent part of the people here, and think my opinion is superior to them. But I don't despise everybody, and as a result I do have a reason to visit this place from time to time when Touhou content elsewhere runs out. That people instantly start foaming at the mouth and accusing me of derailing threads by posting about the subject of the thread is not my fault.

>>19853417
Rumia is flat out mentioned to eat people in PMISS, and Mystia was hunting people as recently as PoVF. They might not be actively hunting people, and why would you even bother in Gensokyo anyway? But they are examples of Youkai that are dangerous to outsiders.

>>19854457
>i probably would have just given up at the insinuation that people who want to fuck touhou characters don't realize that it wouldn't happen in canon.
Which part of "unironically and sincerely" don't you understand?

>>19853181
>This is a contradiction
Which is explained, both why she ultimately didn't go back to the moon and why people still think she did.

>If it's enough to "explain things away," so do H-doujinshi
I have yet to see any h-doujinshi that gives a valid reason for why everybody is completely acting out of character.

>I will tell you affirmatively: no, most people do not consider it a failure, because most people judge the game as a game, not by its faithfulness to the "themes, ideas, and world" of Touhou Project.
Okay, if you say so.

>It doesn't matter how "naturally" you think it flows.
It does matter. And i've already conceded that I don't have any examples of people agreeing with my opinion, so I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish by continuously trying to go back to this. Like, congratulations, I don't have any archived threads lying around where people agree with me that "Sumireko is a deliberately obnoxious parody of Touhou fans". Now can we please move on to the thing I did find evidence for and that is almost equally as important as getting my actual point across?

> Incidents are ritualized events resolved through sport.
The people that do that are completely insane, or run on inhuman moon logic.

>There are yakuza stories about this.
I'm no expert on Yakuza stories, but I have yet to watch, read, or play one where one of the characters goes on a Grand theft auto style rampage across Tokyo.

> Also, something that often happened throughout history (minus the supernatural creatures - people go to war with the armies they have), hence why wars are a thing.
That's now why wars are a thing, nor is it how they are fought. Pillaging is not the same thing as a rampaging, and unless the general is completely insane usually done for a reason more complex than "Arriving in a new territory with a bang".

>You have made an affirmative claim about the creatures of Touhou and Eastern mythology.
I've made claims that the Youkai in Touhou are incompressible, inhuman, and insane, which I have been trying to explain. You brought "western philosophy" into it.

>This is why tropes are retarded: "fair folk" are incomprehensible, Touhou characters fit some of the elements of "fair folk," therefore Touhou characters are incomprehensible.
Not all fair folk are incomprehensible, either in the original myths or tv tropes. That you have this irrational hate boner against tropes doesn't mean they mean what you want them to mean.

>Anything you can comprehend you can put into words. Anything you can put into words you can comprehend.
Nonsense, for a variety of reasons. I can put into words what and why Youkai do what they do, but the kind of warped mind that would make such moon logic choices is still completely alien and incomprehensible to me.
>Incidents (with a few exceptions, later) are not.
You do realize that blocking out the sun or stealing spring would have probably killed most of the Human Village, right? I would say it's absolutely as serious as threatening to bomb a city, and it's only because of the spellcard system that Reimu didn't flat out murder Remilia.

>Danmaku is the boxing club of Gensokyo.
Uh, no. A Danmaku club would be a actual club. Not almost killing everybody.

>I mean in the sense of a self-identified social group
Most Youkai avoid any self identified group bigger than "Youkai".

>Yakuza and mafia have interests in being viewed as dangerous.
Yes, but usually only by certain people and for very clear reasons.

>For a youkai, the reputation for terror is the same as strength, and wanting to demonstrate it is the same as attempting to demonstrate status.
This meanwhile, is (and I know i'm going to use those words again) a inhuman insane reason. Comparing that to what the mafia does is like comparing killing somebody because you work in the army, to killing somebody because the voices in your head told you it was the only way you would have a orgasm.

>If I had a need to wash my hands every ten minutes that would not be "normal" but it would not mean that I, as a person overall, were "insane" or "incomprehensible," or that my thoughts could not be understood.
Yes. But if you washed your hands every ten minutes by doing a handstand on top of a elephant until it spat water at you because that's the only way you actually feel clean, then I would call you insane. Just like how I would call Youkai insane for the way they go about relatively mundane things like alleviating boredom.

>They also make up about 99% of the youkai that people talk about.
And?

>your best argument being that they act like manchildren,
That's not my best argument, or even the most important one. Read again.

>>19853428
>From a quality of life perspective it's no worse than wanting to unironically and sincerely live in India.
Only i've we lived in a alternate universe where India is still stuck in pre british-colony days. Had no government. Was one isolated small city. Is filled with hostile supernatural creatures. And living there would mean never being able to go back, or even talk, with anybody of your old life.

Meanwhile, living in OTL Modern India isn't that odd if you're well educated. Rising economy, and all that.

>I'll set this aside since it rests on your "insanity" argument.
Well, it actually rests upon the fact that you fail question 1 by saying yes to this. But alright.

>Even the people who talk all day about wanting to fuck Satori are aware that in canon it would be unlikely.
Which part of "unironically and sincerely" don't you understand?

>but people are aware of the difference between canon and non-canon the same way they are able to distinguish fiction and reality.
I've been here long enough to know that; No, some people really don't know the difference.

>Even "this manga illustrates the blue and orange morality of the main characters" is an outlandish reading.
Why? The whole joke of the manga is Fairies acting like Fairies. Most people, including me most of the time, would phrase it differently than "this manga illustrates the blue and orange morality of the main characters", but the actual meaning is much the same

>Then why do you casually use tropes as a unit of fictional analysis
I've browsed the place from time to time.

>and how are you aware of a conversation that happened on page 150 of a TVTropes thread?
Google.

>statements which are everywhere.
Not really, I can name a few examples here and there but most of those, like the quote you gave me, are build upon lore that no longer exists. Gensokyo was called a paradise in PCB for instance because every human was strong enough to fight Youkai, something that obviously isn't true anymore one way or another.

>Same with anything nice Reimu ever said in her life.
I might think she's a bad person, but that doesn't mean she can't say nice things. Even murderous dictators have said nice things about others.

>There is no in-universe observation that you cannot explain away by pointing to the subjectivity of characters.
There are a few. It all depends on if the character would have a reason to lie about something or not know the whole truth.

>you require evidence demonstrating that it is ironic, which you do not provide.
My proof is that I do not think anybody sound of mind would write a paradise where people are systematically murdered.

>Wanting to have fun and show off may be eccentric, but not incomprehensible.
Wanting to have fun and show off in such a manner is incompressible.

>What should her priorities be?
Maintaining, or obtaining, an image as a dignified journalist rather than some weird prankster that you shouldn't talk with.

>She doesn't need to.
I would call that pretty inhuman. And if she could, why wouldn't she learn it? She's a thousand year old and regularly visits the Human Village while disguised, she's got reason and time enough.

>Why should a character change her behavior simply because her age has reached a certain number?
...Because that's what people do? Unless you're mentally handicapped, maturity isn't something you need to learn. It's something that develops pretty naturally the older you get. If you're a thousand year old and yet still act like a little girl, something is VERY off.

>Your entire analysis hinges on Remilia behaving in a way that would be inappropriate for a person in ordinary society, therefore she's nuts.
My entire analysis hinges on the fact that Remilia, and Youkai like her, would be viewed as completely insane if they lived in Human society. Be it in Gensokyo, the past, or the modern world. The reason for that being that she thinks like a incompressible Youkai, not a human.

>For someone who doesn't have to deal with any of that, there is nothing "insane" about not conforming.
Do you seriously think Human society is the way it is because people just arbitrarily decided it is that way long ago?

>All of that is well and fine, but none of it lends any credence to the notion that it can be used as proof that Aya is incomprehensible or insane.
It lends credence to both the notion that Aya acts like a Youkai (already explained) and that Youkai like behavior is inhuman (A normal human being, even one living outside society, would not do this.) and incompressible (There are literally thousands of ways she could have had fun and shown off that would have been more sensible than this).

>>19862788
>>19862963
Btw, i'm sure you noticed that I used the word insane a lot in these two posts. Before you go and complain about that, think for a minute why I decided to do that.

>>19862788
*Now can we please move on to the thing I did find evidence for and that is almost equally as important for getting my actual point across?

*People that would do that in such a way are completely insane, or run on inhuman moon logic. Altough it's not like that's a thing any human actually did.

Let me solve this question for you.

Touhou Gacha game.

Can we stop these kuso Touhou anime threads? This entire thread was fucking shit. Kill yourseld out of /jp/, OP.

stop bumping this shitty thread

>>19862484
I'm not trying to pass your shitty "test" or whatever. I have also never said that they would be guaranteed to date me because I'm such a virile stud. I'm asking you what exactly is wrong with trying to bone another human being that you have to make such a big deal about it.

>How do we save Touhou
You can save the replay when you finish without using credits

>>19863957
I'm sure that hilarious joke was worth bumping this kuso award winning thread for.

>>19806119
Kill every erp'er you see.

Every faggot you see posting things related to sexual acts like a mating press is a piece of filth that needs to be burned at the stake or be dragged to a secluded space and then shoot low them in the stomach so the degenerate dies slowly.

Once the perverts are given the death they're due you then go gas the /pol/acks.

Purge the filth and clean your act up so that more people are attracted to the touhou brand instead of being repulsed by a foul mix of horny idiots and stormyiffs.

holy fuck why is this thread still alive?
let it die already

>>19864146
It's not going to be long now.

Oh, and this bears repeating. >>19808842
This faggot made this garbage thread before. Fucking hide it when it happens again.

>>19864180
I'm just kinda sad that a shitty thread like this actually managed to reach bump limit

>>19864198
Yes, that sucks.

>>19864198
This shitty thread ia better than most other shitty thread

>>19862963
Your first point shows how much you live in a bubble, "it isn't that bad if you're well educated" is the same as "just don't be born poor" which isn't the case for millions (maybe even a billion or so) of people living in poor areas of thirld world countries. Oh and this is a bit irrelevant
>Which part of "unironically and sincerely" don't you understand?
Good luck finding someone that unironically and sincerely thinks he'd stand a chance in having a romance with Satori or X youkai, those are fantasies and just because they are posting their fantasies doesn't mean they do believe it's actually ever gonna happen, they just wish it would happen and the biggest barrier isn't how dangerous they are but the fact that they don't exist. As for your claims that people don't know the difference they don't hold any value unless you provide any sort of source. Why? Because you can be stretching it or they might be doing it ironically. I remember you got annoyed that people weren't taking you seriously out of a tongue in cheek post about Yukari not being able to be a murderer due to her being a 17 year old schoolgirl that was too busy with school. You seemed to be completely serious on your concern too which makes me really doubt your claims of people not knowing the difference.
>Gensokyo was called a paradise in PCB for instance because every human was strong enough to fight Youkai, something that obviously isn't true anymore one way or another.
This shit again... Look dude, you're free to believe whatever the fuck you want and you can believe it's a retcon or that it's linked with the rest of the prologue or that it was built on the future or that it was the direction ZUN wanted to go.
>My proof is that I do not think anybody sound of mind would write a paradise where people are systematically murdered.
>Wanting to have fun and show off in such a manner is incompressible.
This is your opinion and holds no value. I think the reason why you have so much conflict while posting is that you post your opinion as objective claims, please to make the life of everyone here easier try changing that, or at least get a trip.
>...Because that's what people do? Unless you're mentally handicapped, maturity isn't something you need to learn. It's something that develops pretty naturally the older you get. If you're a thousand year old and yet still act like a little girl, something is VERY off.
There's grandmas that behave like girls and play and enjoy life just like a kid or teen would do, that doesn't make them any less human. We shape and grow on the way we do because when we grow as adults we need to occupy ourselves to survive and by the time we're near the limit of our lifespan either our mind is still shaped torwards the word focused life they had or they lack the energy to do the activities they used to when they were younger. Aya has a huge lifespan contrary to humans, doesn't have to fit on the same societal needs unlike humans and still has a fit body despite her long age unlike old humans. It's impossible to tell how an actual human girl would act on circuntances similar to Aya but you claiming it's inhuman is just a stretch to fit your view that she shares no resemblance with humans and to find something wrong out of a light hearted prank on the same way you can find something really bad out of breathing oxygen or eating a sandwich.
>My entire analysis hinges on the fact that Remilia, and Youkai like her, would be viewed as completely insane if they lived in Human society.
This is literally the same thing as what he said but said differently so it doesn't sound as dumb.
>A normal human being, even one living outside society, would not do this.)
A human being that as a teenager had to be lectured and engaged on a passive sexual role with a full grown man, this would be considered a crime, taboo and immoral in our modern society because we don't behave like that. A tradition of eating other human beings is inhuman because we don't behave like that.
These acts were commited by humans and were completely accepted by their societies. You're judging youkai on our western and modern lifestyle which is no different than an imperialist defending it's actions on the "inhuman" nature of the inhabitants from foreign regions.
>and incompressible (There are literally thousands of ways she could have had fun and shown off that would have been more sensible than this).
This is also just a s t r e t c h to find something wrong with her behaviour. There's nothing else I can say other that in my opinion you're completely based and you want to find wrong doings where there isn't anything sinister.

>>19862788
>>19862788
>out of character
So mind control, rape and vanilla is fine? Is that a perfect excuse to h doujin that would fit the characters doing sexual acts?
>Uh, no. A Danmaku club would be a actual club. Not almost killing everybody.
>Danmaku
>killing
If you refer to the lives of villagers being put in danger with incidents, as far as I know there hasn't been a single casualty out of an incident and it's miles better than the previous method where villagers, youkai or the shrine maiden and exterminators could more likely than not end with someone getting killed or exterminated.
>Comparing that to what the mafia does is like comparing killing somebody because you work in the army, to killing somebody because the voices in your head told you it was the only way you would have a orgasm.
I'd say this is an s t r e t c h too. A more fitting comparison would be killing somebody because your religion tells you that otherwise the sun wouldn't rise anymore which is a human thing to do because it happened in real life, aztecs did it. Saying "she needs to attack humans otherwise she'll die off" is more similar to "we need to sacrifice this warrior otherwise hell will be unleashed" than "I need to kill humans because it makes my hard", one is a need for survival the other is not.
>Yes. But if you washed your hands every ten minutes by doing a handstand on top of a elephant until it spat water at you because that's the only way you actually feel clean, then I would call you insane.
An example of a youkai doing something so far fetched? This isn't normal youkai behaviour either.
>And?
How do you want to argue about youkai that we now absolutely NOTHING other than they MIGHT attack humans. If you want to use this as a cheap way to get an ambiguous point in your favor then they might also be peaceful and not attack humans. There's really not much to say about this (or the other points in your post, really).
>That's not my best argument, or even the most important one. Read again.
How do you want people to go find which is your best argument? This post ALONE has 17 statements, and you've been going back and forth with the other guy for like 50 posts. There's no possible way to find your best argument if you bury it deep between a huge amound of irrelevant statements. Your spacing between greentext and normal text doesn't help either since it makes your posts even more bloated. Rather than dissecting your opponents post and making small arguments out of whatever you see fit, try to make some context with what the previous poster said instead of quoting him every single time. That'd make your posts easier to read, that or you simply putting a trip so I can filter you.