/jp/ - Otaku Culture

>>19791839
现在用日本语了

Reposting since the last thread died right after I submitted it:
>>19792027
Okay, lets say you're right and I start doing Anki. How are you supposed to go about trimming the definitions down to a number which is feasible to memorize (3 or less seems ideal to me)?

There's no problem with a word like 悲鳴, but putting every definition of 捉える on your card would just be ridiculous.

Also, it seems to me like it would be really easy to start confusing words with similar definitions like 光景 and 景色 if you were drilling them in the context-less format of a vocab card in Anki. What do you do about that problem?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeOmc1nRGG4
New Matt video.

>>19792308
>What do you do about that problem?
Have an example sentence from where you got the word from? Use the example sentences add-on?

>>19792330
That only solves the latter problem, and introduces a new problem inherent to sentence cards where you remember the answer from the sentence prompt rather than by actually remembering the word.

>>19792339
They're on the backside of the card.

Front: 光景
Back: Definitions and context.

>>19792349
If the disambiguation isn't on the front then it isn't serving any purpose. Once you've flipped the card and realized you've mixed the words up, it's already too late.

>>19792355
Then fail the card and learn the word/kanji better.

>>19792358
It's not a matter of learning the word, it's a matter of learning to answer the card correctly with the specific definition requested of you. Knowing what a word means when you read/hear it in a sentence doesn't equate to being able to recite its definition correctly (which is what Anki is testing you on).

You've still given no solution for problem #1 either.

>>19792369
>Knowing what a word means when you read/hear it in a sentence doesn't equate to being able to recite its definition correctly (which is what Anki is testing you on).
Then get good.

>You've still given no solution for problem #1 either.
That part of your post didn't really interest me.

>>19792379
>Then get good.
>That part of your post didn't really interest me.
Translation: I have no answers.

>>19792408
If you want to feel like Anki is persecuting you due to your inability to remember words then go ahead.

>>19792316
The answer is yes, I saved you 15 minutes of him sipping on water.

>>19792423
>If you want to feel like Anki is persecuting
I don't. I would like to use Anki if I could find a solution to its problems.

You know, for jerking off Krashen so much, you guys really don't seem to understand that you learn new words and grammar better subconsciously without studying it.

there is nothing wrong with small amounts of memorization
there ARE problems with SRSing things you don't intuitively understand though

>>19792507
Very true, you'll instill incorrect grammar and permanently cripple your Japanese that way. That's why studying from textbooks and grammar guides with misleading explanations of grammar is a bad idea.

just do sentence cards. you really think you're going to memorize 10k+ sentences?

>>19792521
never respond to me again you crazy freak

>>19792528
yes

>>19792547
Keep drilling unnatural sentences and grammar explanations from Tae Kim if you want, but don't say nobody warn you

>>19792554
yeah no don't drill that shit

yoshi time for reading

>>19792528
That's kind of what I'm gravitating towards since then you're not having to worry about memorizing definitions and can thus have as many as you need on the backs of your cards without issue. I'm just concerned that they don't actually test your ability to read words.

>>19792575
?

>>19792579
you are in fact supposed to memorize the definition with sentence cards

>>19792583
Are you sure? I thought the way sentence cards worked was:
"Did you understand the sentence?"
>Yes
Good
>no
Again

>>19792593
if it was they would be completely indefensible instead of just a bad idea

>>19792369
>doesn't equate to being able to recite its definition correctly (which is what Anki is testing you on)
Has this thread become so awful that idiots like this are here in earnest? What the fuck.

>>19792579
>I'm just concerned that they don't actually test your ability to read words.
Unless you have furigana on the front, it'll be just like reading except the sentences would be just slightly more familiar. However, if you're adding 20+ a day like you should be, you won't be memorizing sentences except for the 0.05% that you keep failing over and over again.
>>19792593
If you understand the sentence, you must understand the definition.
If you encounter that word in the wild and don't understand it, you add that shit to Anki with that context. It's not like your native reading is going to involve reading vocab lists. You're always going to have some sort of context to rely on.

>>19792598
Where are you getting this idea about having to recite the definitions from though? Whenever Matt talks about sentence cards, he only ever seems to talk about answering them based on whether or not you understood the sentence.

The AJATT site also seems to suggest you're not trying to memorize definitions:
>You don’t need to provide an exact translation when you give your answer, in fact, don’t bother translating at all.

The Antimoon website's page about sentence cards even talks about leaving the answer field completely blank:
>In the answer field, you can put the definitions and pronunciations (phonetic transcriptions) of the difficult words. The answer field can also be empty.

>>19792507
>SRSing (presumably with flash cards) stuff you intuitively understand
What a waste of time

can you retards shut up and go play with nihongo

>>19792625
you just jumped from one concept (definitions) to another (translations)

don't argue about things you are not currently coherent about

>>19792638
That only works as a retort to the AJATT site part and ignores the other two sources I pointed to.

Feel free to actually answer my question at some point. Where are you getting this idea about having to recite the definitions from?

>>19792625
also Matt's sentence cards had definitions on them and you'd know this if you actually watched his videos about sentence cards (a prerequisite to talking about his stance on sentence cards)

One question. Even though I read the guide and it presented me with a couple of options on how to approach vocab and kanji, I wanna ask what worked for you guys best. Should I just learn whole words while reading stuff and try to recognize the kanji that the words are composed of, should I learn individual kanji, or should I learn particles ?

>>19792657
read the alternative guide

>>19792652
I know they have definitions of them, but when he talks about answering the cards he never mentions reciting the definition, only understanding the sentence. I got the impression that the definition was there to check that you actually understood the word properly. In the first place, Matt uses J>J definitions which would be too long to memorize anyway.

Please find any of the sentence card advocates out there who says you have to recite the definition in order to not fail the card.

>>19792650
nobody said you're supposed to recite the definition, stop attempting to set up loaded questions

>Doing sentence cards
Literally what's the point? If you're going that far to get context you may as well actually read. I can understand ankidrones because they think grinding vocab is better than reading, but why the FUCK does anyone think grinding the same sentences over and over is better than reading actual material? Is it just a way to go into reading without going cold turkey on anki?

>>19792268
>见

>>19792670
If you can't recite the definition then you haven't memorized it, have you?

>>19792669
you made the mistake of assuming that definitions are for memorizing by rote rather than making sure you can recall just what the word fucking means lmao you're so fucking poisoned it's impossible for you to realize something even this fucking common

>>19792676
you're memorizing the definition conceptually not word by word

Why is 取引 pronounced like とりしき when the kana on the card is written as とりひき?

>>19792682
Your ears aren't tuned to Japanese yet.

>>19792678
>rather than making sure you can recall just what the word fucking means
I said in that very post that that's what I thought the definitions on sentence cards were for:
>I got the impression that the definition was there to check that you actually understood the word properly.

>>19792674
The hardest part about Japanese is memorizing the readings. Reading from a limited pool of words that you've studied before is easier than reading from an unlimited pool where you need to constantly confirm readings... unless you're reading some shit for babies that has furigana.

>>19792684
Sarcasm? The shhh sound I'm hearing is pretty far from just hi.

>>19792689
if you see the equivalent of "i was in jail yesterday", just understanding what the sentence conveys isn't enough to learn what jail means, you need a definition or you might assume it's synonymous with prison
the sentence alone does not give you anything to avoid misunderstanding jail
it doesn't matter what the definition is or how little of it you remember as long as you are testing yourself on correctly understanding it conceptually
matt used sentence cards this way
>that the definition was there to check that you actually understood the word properly.
that's not enough, you need to recall the word's meaning conceptually, i.e. learn how it's defined, not just what the sentence means and whether you vaguely """understood""" the word

>>19792692
>Some shit for babies
Fuck yeah I'm reading shit for babies, they tend to have incredibly high-frequency words carpet bombed into their prose. Why should I read some VN with lots of post 5000 frequency words when I read MOTHER. FUCKING. MOMOTARO. and get hundreds of very common words?
And fuck yeah I use furiganha, I can learn kanji whatever kanji I didn't naturally pick up later.

>>19792697
You just haven't listened to enough Japanese to know what ひ is supposed to sound like.

and you guys complain about the thread during my regular posting hours? lmao

>>19792682
its true you dont understand the sounds yet dont worry about it

>>19792682
>>19792697
Sounds like the latter on my end, dawg.

>>19792689
>>19792700
allow me to reiterate: you were talking about checking, I'm talking about testing
you ALWAYS need a definition because otherwise you can't test, your answers are mere guesses

>>19792700
>you need a definition or you might assume it's synonymous with prison
I'm an EOP and I think that jail is synonymous with prison. I never knew I was this baka.

>>19792717
i know right

>>19792704
>>19792707
>>19792711
Ah, ok. I just got confused because this is the 1st instance of ひ sounding different than usual on my vocab grind.

>>19792720
The funny thing is... is that the example sentence "i was in jail yesterday" would lead me to understand the correct definition of jail because it implies a short term stay -- I _was_ in jail yesterday, but now I'm free. You wouldn't word it like that if you had been in prison for 2+ years since the emphasis would be on the fact that you were released. Now if he had used the example sentence "I was just released from jail, yesterday," then that would be ambiguous and could either imply jail or prison for an idiot like me who never bothered to understand the difference between the two.

>>19792734
everything in this post is unrealistic (i.e. not reflective of reality) grandstanding, good job

>>19792734
If you actually try to derive conclusions like this from single examples you're gonna have a really, REALLY bad time.

>>19792755
If you pick the sentence from an actual novel, like you're supposed to, then you'll have more context around it than just that one sentence

>>19792758
That doesn't have anything to do with whatI just said.

>>19792761
I thought we were talking about matts way of making sentence cards

にゃーん

おはようおにいちゃん

Got a package from amazon jp, and on the packaging above a barcode it says ”このラベルはきれいにはがせます]”, and I haven't the foggiest what はがせます means, looked around on jisho but nothing. So "Please cleanly something to this label".

Found this slang word: ウィダニー
It means to masturbate by squirting Weider-brand jelly into your urethra.
Might as well add it to your core list.

>>19792682
how retarded are you if you can't even hear words if you're an EOP unironically kill yourself at this point

>>19792918
Thank you, I will cherish this card. I have a question, though. Is it possible to put a video on an Anki card? I'd like to use the video from this tweet on it: https://twitter.com/empathy5986/status/912386861347233792

>>19792908

>>19792820
More context does not fix the problem of guessing what the words in a sentence in SRS mean being a terrible idea.

>>19792948
Forgot to try stripping the inflection, thanks.

>>19792674
Because context makes it much easier to remember shit. You will associate the context of the surrounding sentence with the word that you wanted to learn, and when you see that word again in the wild it'll be easy to remember what it means because you will remember what context you originally saw it in
You also get an example for how that word is used in an actual native speaker produced sentence, which is a big advantage over just learning words in isolation

it's funny because they don't realize that artificially making something easier to remember in Anki is a bad thing. might as well just put the definition on the front of the card lmao.

also single sentences are not context you dumb fucks.

>>19792583
>>19792593
you are not supposed to memorize the definitions

http://www.antimoon.com/how/usingsm-makeitems-sentence.htm
>In the question field, there is an example sentence.
>In the answer field, you can put the definitions and pronunciations (phonetic transcriptions) of the difficult words. The answer field can also be empty.
>You should not try to say the definitions in the answer field! These definitions only help you to check if you understood all parts of the sentence. If you forget the sentence, they help you to re-learn it.

>>19793077
read the conversation dumbass

>>19793071
How is it a bad thing? I've never come across a word in the wild that I didn't recall even though it was in my sentence cards, not once, while with isolated vocabulary that used to happen a lot. I understand the theory behind your criticism but it just doesn't happen when you actually try it.

making flash cards artificially easy is bad for an extremely obvious reason and if you can argue in favor of it either you have a malicious agenda or you're retarded

>>19793082
i did, you're not making a single good point as to why one should go through the retarded ordeal of memorizing dictionary definitions

ps personal anecdotes are the exact opposite of an argument

>>19793104
nobody ever attempted to claim that you should attempt to actually literally memorize the definition word by word like antimoon says not to do
learning to meaning of the definition is in fact exactly what antimoon is telling you to actually do
you don't know English

>>19793095
>>19793105
>making things easy to memorize is somehow bad now

And, what do you have as an argument other than personal anecdotes?

you suffer from extreme reading comprehension problems. you are not making it easier to memorize, you are making it easier to remember but harder to actually memorize. read Anki's manual, the Supermemo website, and the peer reviewed literature on flashcards. the more similar a card is to exposure the worse it is. you want a prompt and no help getting to the info you're testing your memory of.

きょうは

なんのアニメを

みましたか

>>19793115
exactly, you're supposed to know and understand the definition, not memorize it
memorization is only the act of committing something to memory, not necessarily understanding it
if I memorize a complex definition that I can't understand I have gained nothing, which is why >>19792583 is incorrect
I think you're the one who doesn't know English

>>19793165
no actually if you followed the conversation and came to that conclusion you're the one that doesn't know English
attempting to argue about semantics just means you're insincere and only care about "winning"
suck my cock dude

>>19793165
memorize = commit to memory
You're overthinking this and have entered crazy land. Stop posting.

>>19793183
>no u
>s-suck my cock...

>>19793190
guess you're new to jp huh

here's a hint
definitions aren't the text they're written with, they're conceptual information

Here's a better hint:
Continue your argument in Japanese and the one that has better Japanese wins.

>>19792945
Why is it ALWAYS the fat fucks!?

>permanently crippling my japanese by actually using it
nice try faggot

considering the ajatt cultists turned this into an English semantics argument because they didn't have a real argument, no

きょうはぼうさいのひ

ひなんくんれんしてきた

>>19793204
This boy is pretty slim: https://www.xtube.com/video-watch/syun-video-44-31180042

>>19793147
バブルガムクライシス

>>19793236
まじで
うちの学校はサプライズっぽくて災難訓練したけど毎回早めに知ってたかったなぁ

>>19793273
→を行った

>>19793147
>アニメを見ます
笑

>>19793284
forced production not even once

>>19793251
I'm not gonna ask you why you're watching this

the result of six years of reading anime song lyrics and looking up their definitions in the dictionary

time to die

>>19793147
青い花10話まで観たで

>>19793316
ハナカ゛サイタヨ

>>19793313
pretty good for six years of doing nothing to actually learn japanese

>>19793370
i read the basic and intermediate dojgs back in the day, it's probably why i know any japanese at all

it's always time to die anyway

>>19792248
Is Haruhi reading?

How many total hours do you ファック坊やs have on anki? I have 112

>>19793147
じょうかまちのダンディライオン

>>19793313
You could have reached that level within six months though

>>19793484
525

>>19793492
How good are you

>>19793496
I could understand what >>19793328 was saying without having to look it up.

>>19793499
so proud

これを間違えてたら,センパイを8bit扱いするところです->If you had gotten it wrong, I would have given you the 8bit treatment, Senpai.

Is this correct? Am I Matt level yet or do I need more RTK study?

>>19793548
I would probably say ですよ

i would probably say やでほんまに

>>19793603
You mean やでほんまにねんぼけへん

>>19793489
what's your jcat / months spent learning

By the time I finish FF7 will I understand Japanese.

>>19793734
I got 201 within 5 months. Now 7 months in

why would you take the jcat when you could spend that time learning japanese instead lol

>>19793762
What is "learning japanese" according to you

>>19791632
If you can read that many then RTK will be a breeze for you. You could do like 50-100 per day and finish in less than a month with a high retention rate.

Hey guys, I'm very new to the jap language, so far my knowledge is hiragana and katana.
I was hoping someone could break down this sentence for me and explain every bit? I'm just a bit confused

ボブは魚が好きだ

I know it translates to "Bob like fish", and I know the は particle is telling us that this sentence is about Bob, but the next part is what kind of confuses me, I guess specifically the が
Thanks in advance anons

If Matt's so good at Japanese then why isn't he working for a private company or the government as a localizer / translator / or interpreter? Surely for someone with skills that took 6 and a half years to aquire he could be earning more than 32k a year.

>>19793907
Sitsumonday is on reddit you know

>>19793910
good at language =/= good translator

>>19793910
because he wouldn't enjoy it and the effort wouldn't be worth it.

>>19793907
You should stop reading Tae Kim immediately, his grammar explanantions are highly misleading and people have permanently fucked up their Japanese that way. Start consuming native content.

>>19793943
Oh seriously? Damn, thanks for the early warning
So you mean start reading stuff instead looking up how grammar works?

>>19793943
don't listen to this guy. you'll quit soon after jumping into native content when you realize you can't understand anything. acquiring grammar without consulting a grammar guide will take MUCH longer. just read tae kim and start enjoying compelling input soon afterwards.

>>19793951
Yes. Simply read and listen to lots of compelling content and you will naturally acquire the language. Look up Stephen Krashen's input hypothesis.

>>19793960
Krashen directly refutes this. Stop giving people shitty advice.

Maybe Krashen should have written a better grammar guide if he wanted me to listen to him, lmao.

I really wish people would stop throwing around literal who names like that.

>>19793977
And with what scientific evidence does he refute it? It's literally just a hypothesis
Besides that, he highly advocates enjoyment as a key factor for language acquisition and if you just stare at words without any guidance on how to grammatically parse them, there's no enjoyment to be had

you can either read a grammar guide and instantly have a vague idea of what a grammar point is doing and then acquire an understanding through input or you can waste dozens of hours attempting to figure out what a grammar point is doing with no help but your input. your choice (99.99% of people choose the former).

as for me, gay

guys
Guys
GUYS!

Less arguing, more learning. We're all in this together. Let's behave that way.

Wrong. Everyone is for himself, and you must prove to others your learning method is superior if you want to learn anything at all.

>>19794012
99% of those waste months of their lives reading through grammar guides and anki and getting nothing for it, pushing input further back when they could have instead spent that time reading. Consuming content can be enjoyable even if you don't comprehend all of it and you're actually acquiring the language that way.

>>19794040
>99% of those waste months of their lives reading through grammar guides
ok but no one here recommends that.

>>19794040
>Consuming content can be enjoyable even if you don't comprehend all of it and you're actually acquiring the language that way.
Absolutely, but you need to get a foot in the door. Going cold turkey without any grammar and not knowing how anything works is idiotic

>>19794057
The longer they take to learn it, the longer they stay on my patreon

>>19794044
Plenty of people here recommend reading grammar guides and grinding 2-3k words from premade decks before they even begin actually learning the language.

>>19794051
Follow along with the visuals, look up grammar occasionally and encounter i+1 where you can. It's not that hard. You don't have to aim for perfect comprehension at the beginning.

>>19793907
don't bother with the nitty gritty, just take note that Xが好き means that whoever is talking likes X and move on
also tae kim is totally fine, just go through it quickly and then start reading things

>>19794070
>Plenty of people here recommend reading grammar guides
you said reading grammar guides for months. nobody recommends that. they recommend reading tae kim's guide and then consuming input.
>and grinding 2-3k words from premade decks
most here recommend reading as early as possible, not wasting weeks or months on this shit.

>>19794070
>grinding 2-3k words from premade decks
That's one idiot who posted it so many times people started to believe it. You can start way before 3k words

>>19794070
Do you have a brick for a brain?

>>19794079
If 'early' isn't from day 1 then they're doing it wrong. Grammar resources should be considered supplementary to input at best.

>>19794094
who do you think you're disagreeing with? especially after you conceded that you should look up grammar points. that means you're not the "looking up anything will permanently cripple your second language" retard.

>>19794094
That's why Japanese manga way is such a great resource because it has reading built into it from the very beginning

>>19794101
I am that guy, and from the start I made a clear distinction between grammar as a reference and grammar as something to be drilled.

>>19794104
>between grammar as a reference and grammar as something to be drilled.
since when is reading a grammar guide like tae kim once "drilling" it? are you an ESL?

>>19794110
You're using unnatural sentences and misleading grammar definitions as your introduction to the language, it's ingraining poor grammar from the start that will never be fixed. There is no reason to read Tae Kim when you could be consuming natural input instead, referencing grammar only occasionally if necessary. If your only argument is that "you won't remember any of it anyway because you're not drilling" then it's a pretty shit one.

>>19794125
>that will never be fixed
What's the reasoning for this?
It's the nucleus of your argument and it's complete bullshit. Doesn't check out.

>it's ingraining poor grammar from the start that will never be fixed
Enough input will fix anything, stupid ajatt cultist.

>>19794125
So essentially you're saying that anyone who learns any language through a grammar guide will
>permanently cripple
their abilities. Which is provably false, since myriads of people who have started with grammar guides have later become proficient at the target language.

>>19794129
People who learn English through input speak with perfect grammar, those who learn through grammar textbooks don't. The evidence is clear. What more reasoning do you need?

>>19794131
Then why do people who have tens of thousands of hours of input still make basic grammar mistakes? Not an ajatt cultist by the way, that idiot wants you to make sentence cards out of Tae Kim examples.

>>19794146
>People who learn English through input speak with perfect grammar
Just stop and think about how retarded this is. Have you ever talked to anyone besides your own mommy when she brings you a tray of tendies? I live near a major city with lots of ESLs from every part of the world. And I say you're an idiot

>>19794073
>>19793960
>>19793961
Alright cool, so what I get from all of this:
Quickly read through Tae Kim without staying too much time looking into everything, and then start putting the little knowledge I have into practice with some manga

>>19794172
That is correct

>>19794170
The ESLs in your major city either learned through grammar textbooks or don't get nearly enough input. You can find examples of non-natives in Japan too who still don't speak Japanese, it doesn't mean anything.

>>19794172
You should start reading from day one, other than that yes.

>>19794146
I'm an ESL. I started learning through textbooks at school, yet most of the progress towards the level I'm at right now (which I would say is close to most natives) was made through constant input. The textbooks certainly did not cripple me whatsoever.

>have no idea how a sentence is formed in x language
>dude just read x language lmao

>>19794202
No. There are people who have thousands of hours of native English input, through tv, movies, news, reading, etc, who still make grammar mistakes. Your hypothesis that massive input alone leads to perfect grammar is incorrect

Wait a minute... Nukemarine made the core 2/6k "optimized" deck? No wonder it's so shitty.

>>19794223
>No. There are people who have thousands of hours of native English input, through tv, movies, news, reading, etc, who still make grammar mistakes.
I see them all the time, and interestingly enough they tend to be highly educated journalists or academics who would have most likely studied a grammar textbook at some point rather than learning solely through playing video games and watching American television like the average 4chan ESL who does not make those mistakes.

>>19794246
>learning solely through playing video games and watching American television like the average 4chan ESL
>solely
proof?

>>19794246
Lol you clearly never actually talk to real people. There's no point continuing this conversation about language with someone who doesn't even use it outside of typing messages on a web board

>>19794254
The topic pops up all the time, this is how a lot of English speakers learn the language.

>>19794259
Go ahead and show me evidence that I'm wrong, you won't find any.

>>19794246
Studying a grammar textbook at some point doesn't cripple you, are you an idiot? It's about how much you engage with the language afterwards. Nobody is saying to ONLY study the grammar guide or textbook, you do it for a short amount of time to acquire a basic skillset for parsing the language and then put it to work in native media, which is when the actual acquisition of language happens.

So what should I read if I have no vocab, no grammar, no kanji, just kana? Everyone says begin reading asap but what is suitable?

>>19794281
Whatever you want, what's important is that it's compelling.

>>19794029
more learning? you mean learning in the first place lmao

>>19794281
nothing watch 10000 hours of anime

how long have you been "learning" "japanese" and how much of this do you 「understand」

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcfdCeaKFMg#t=61

>>19794275
>you do it for a short amount of time to acquire a basic skillset for parsing the language and then put it to work
You're instilling simplified and misleading grammar points by doing this, it's why otherwise fluent people can have so many problems with basic grammar (which tends to have the most exceptions).

>>19794284
So I can just start with something by Soseki?
alrighty then

>>19794290
35 months and all of it

where's my medal

>>19794305
you dont get a medal you just get a gj

>>19794304
do what you want man, it's all about enjoying the journey

>>19794270
yes of course they learn mainly through input but "solely"? nah they probably googled shit, and most europeans take english classes. language classes are obviously shit but it seems that if people learn mainly through input, then language classes don't seem to have the negative effect you claim they do.

>>19794303
Except there is no proof for any of this nonsense

>>19794320
How else do you explain people who acquire language through input having perfect grammar?

>>19794315
One more question: how will I pick up grammar and vocab this way? Just keep looking it up in the dictionary till I get it?

>>19794324
How do you explain people with perfect grammar who started with a grammar guide and then acquired the language through input?

>>19794330
if you like, or just acquire it naturally

>>19794333
If the number of results for google searches of basic grammatical errors are anything to go by then they were very lucky.

i learned my native language (english) while reading lots of grammar guides and looking shit up in the dictionary all the goddamn time and i have literally perfect native level english

Q.E.D.

theres nothing wrong with grammar from the textbook

its how you become able to understand and express the most basic ideas in the most basic ways that is absolutely valid and fine for someone that is learning

the people is people are retarded and cant understand how whats in the textbook morphs and changes in the regular language because they cant apply what they learn to their overall japanese understanding most likely because they never develop a functioning base with which to "apply" these "patches" as i would aptly call it

the root of all evil isnt your genki textbook its your learning disability basically

>>19794350
get this girl some tp for her bung hole

>>19794335
> acquire it naturally
Please explain. Sorry for taking up your time. Also how do will you know if something is a word or just a part of grammar? I guess I'll just read a ton of grammar guides like >>19794350

you acquire naturally when you spend extensive time around and engaging with the language

>>19794370
Encounter a word or grammar point in a context that you can infer its meaning enough times and you will acquire it naturally without conscious effort.

>I guess I'll just read a ton of grammar guides
This is a terrible idea.

>>19794353
yeah I'm not reading all that shit

Has anyone here tried to read re zero?

http://ncode.syosetu.com/n2267be/

I have been trying for quite som time now, but every time i do stubble upon a strange word that either isn't on jisho or is barely ever used.

Has anyone here tried to read it? I want to know if the vocabular used tend to be repeted or if the author allways find new ones in wich case i won't lose my time reading it (not until some more years at least).

>>19794450
but enough about your japanese learning career

>>19794461
If a couple uncommon words add enough drag to your comprehension to make you stop reading then I would hold off on edgy light novels for a bit. 9900 more hours of anime should get you there. Watch the re zero cartoon while you're at it.

hey guys just wanna give you an update i'm learning about the "enduring state" on tae kim right now but luckily i already learned about the て+いる thing awhile ago because i was curious about it and googled it but i'm assuming tae kim is going to mention something that gives me a bit more insight. i'm sure this will cripple my japanese but i'm learning so much!

signed anon

>ん、ちゅ、はぁ……ちゅ、んん、ちゅ……んむ、ふ、ちゅ、んん……
How the fuck am I supposed to interpret this? There's nothing in Tae Kim to help me. Should I buy Genki? I've been stuck on this sentence for like 20 minutes

>>19794495
>on edgy light novel

I have tried and read arifureta and mushoku tensei and i found them easier than re zero.

I think the problem is that tappei is trying to give himself some kind of genre by using too much rare words.
web novel authors all do that but it feels like he is doing it way more.
What i want to know is if those words are contained or if he always find new one, i d'ont have the time to read 50 chapters to find out.

>>19794524
keep drilling grammar textbooks because that's the only way to learn a language

Do Japanese people really talk like this in real life?

like what

>>19794633
like shown in the image, dekinai-kun

and what is shown in the image bitch ass ninja-no honorific-cuz-ur-not-worthy-of-1

you would know if you knew japanese
are you suggesting I TRANSLATE it for you? LOL

i just wanted to know what you meant by like this you dont have to translate it

If you can't read this font, you don't know Japanese.

>>19794716
You should've posted hentaigana or at least cursive kanji. Everyone and their grandmother can read this sort of font.

isnt that the point

Is there kanji for honorifics?

>>19794757
殿、御、姫、様
probably more that i didn't remember

>>19794757
>>19794772
San doesn't have one because it's just a slurred version of sama by the way

>>19794716
That's used everywhere on tv. Try again.

おやすみおにいちゃん~

>>19793147
Fate Zero.

>>19794779
fascinating.

>>19794537
>i d'ont have the time to read 50 chapters to find out.

doubt.jpg

Is 〒　a kanji？

>>19795081
I don't think so.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_postal_mark

>>19795081
no, it's a kokuji.

>和
>harmony
>peace
>Japan
>Japanese-style
Is this some kind of joke?

>息子
>son
>penis
Is this some kind of joke?

>冗談
Is this some kind of a joke?

>私
Is this some kind of joke?

>>19795349
/r/2me4meirl

>you have a chemistry exam tomorrow!
me:
>硫酸銅(II)

>joke
Is this some kind of　ジョーク？

チクショ～!!

てめぇ何者だ

>>19794716
Trying to read anime storyboards by people who can barely draw and write did true wonders to my comprehension of awful fonts, anon.

わたしはゲイ

>>19795615
果たし和芸

>>19794009
it's a working hypothesis not an experimental hypothesis

非常にゲイ

>>19795241
No one realized how ironic it is that one of the biggest warmongers did this?

死ぬほどゲイ

>>19793910
because he's been in weeb land for so long that his english is fuckign SHIT

how long till i learn enough japanese to pee in jugs

>太古
>古代
Joke it is, isn't it?

Here are the levels of japanese. Where are you?

level 0 - hiragana/katakana
level 1 - tyler kimberly
level 2 - NHK news easy
level 3 - yotsubato
level 4 - nichijou/love hina
level 5 - GJ部
level 6 - kino no tabi
level 7 - Oreimo/konosuba
level 8 - no game no life / haruhi
level 9 - re:zero / overlord
level 10 - monogatari series
level 11 - real novels
level 12 - genji monogatari
level 13 - phd papers

>>19796156
Tyler Kimberly but I did RTK before so my progress will be twice as fast. I'm already basically at level 6.5 without yet being there.

>>19796156
Welp apparently I started at level 7

>>19796156
Probably between 10 and 11.

>>19796156
>tyler kimberly
uh what's this

>>19796238
You don't know her end game?

>>19796238
Tae Kim after 5 levels of DJT retardation.

>>19794716
This font is used in ping pong when Chinese characters talk LUL

>>19796156
what the fuck is all this siht

>>19796156
How msart do I have to be to apply for a scholarship

>>19796287
>smart
That's not mandatory, just be diligent.

>>19796156
The difficulty of "real novels" is all over the place and most aren't actually harder than Nisio.

What's a good way to make Kanji flashcards?
[地上] Front
[1. above ground; surface​
2. earth; world​] Back

Like that?

>>19796156
yeah not reading all that

7 decides what i read next

>>19795913
>古代
You know it’s pronounced dai not tai right?

>>19796348
rtk exposition

>>19796351
i already do that its this thread

>>19796348
What level are you?
Just pick something from that list at your level.
Everything on that list is good besides
GJbu - boring
genji/phd - have not read

>>19796366
i mean ill give props for love hina but otherwise ┐(‘～` )┌

>>19796366
>not reading
>read it

シンジくん、ガンダムを乗って下さい

>>19796389
Well "all" means the entire encompass of the list which most people wont read as everyone has different taste than me. But if there is nothing on that list that interests, you probably can't learn Japanese.

Have you made the monolingual transition yet?

no i'm trying to make the katakana transition by making a kana deck

>>19796480
Of course.

>>19796349
Yes, it still doesn't make it much better

>>19796156
Currently reading Konosuba and understanding it relatively well. Gotta look up a lot of N1 kanji though.

Finished up another month of listening practice. This month I also added in passive listening where I just listen to the audio while I'm doing other things. I don't have it on constantly, but only when I can pay at least a little attention to it. So if I'm reading websites, playing a game, or doing my flashcards I'll usually have it going. So, after 100 hours of active listening and 60 of passive, have I improved? I think I have, but it is not a huge amount. Improvements are so slow that they are hard to notice. The further I go in this project, the more suspicious I am of claims by AJATTers that say they can understand almost everything only a year after starting. I have read 3 VNs, 1 LN, had 7k vocab cards in the past, and have watched 500 English subbed series, so I started listening from a much higher base level than them and the gains are still so slow.

One problem I had this month was that I am getting too interested sometimes. I really want to know what is going on, so instead of just listening and moving on when I don't understand something, I constantly pause it and look at the subtitle file to try to figure it out. Sometimes I will even turn on the English subs to see how they translated it. Yesterday I spent about an hour on a 5 minute section of Hibike Euphonium because I really wanted to understand it. I did the same thing several times during Eureka Seven because there were episodes with huge info dumps. This may sound good that I was so interested, but the overall experience was much less enjoyable.

Not much variety this month since everything was pretty long.
Eureka Seven - I absolutely loved it the first time I watched it, but this time I didn't really like the end as much. Passively listening to it was pretty boring, so I don't think I'll listen to it a second time.
Accel World - Very hard to understand, but it was still enjoyable. I missed a major plot point while I was watching it and I didn't realize it until I was reading about the series later. Even after passively listening to it twice, I still never picked up anything about it.
Hibike Euphonium - I thought I loved this series, but actually I only love S1 and maybe 1/3 of S2. Lots of easy to understand parts and I love Kumiko's voice.

At some point I am going to try watching a series I haven't seen before and see how much I understand. Not sure if that will be this month or not. I'll be back next month with another update, although I have no idea what I'm going to watch this month. Kind of running out of things I really want to rewatch.

>>19796518
Seriously not reading all that shit.

ok for real im not reading all that 7 still decides what i read next

>>19793147
ちおちゃんの通学路の最新話と「今夜、ロマンスの劇場で」という実写映画です。ちおちゃんは相変わらず面白いなんで、後者の映画はまあまあですね。

>>19796525
こんやろまんすのげきじょうで

おとなー

>>19796490
What's so bad about it anyway? Two words with slightly related meanings sound similar? big whoop

>>19796348
Well, I've read up until Yoimonogatari and Okitegami Kyoko no Iromihon, and currently reading Himeiden. As for 'actual' novels, it is safe to say that Nisio's Nanmin Tantei belongs to the category, and in the middle of reading γの悲劇.

>>19796518
1 hour per day is not enough, listen more.

>>19796156
Well, I've read up until Yoimonogatari and Okitegami Kyoko no Iromihon, and currently reading Himeiden. As for 'actual' novels, it is safe to say that Nisio's Nanmin Tantei belongs to the category, and in the middle of reading γの悲劇.

honestly how do you put something that is reasonably clever (i write this begrudgingly) and very japanese like nichijo so close to the beginner stage lol

>>19796518
> The further I go in this project, the more suspicious I am of claims by AJATTers that say they can understand almost everything only a year after starting.
they probably listen more

>>19796530
最初は予告編見た時に、ロマンチックコメディーだと思ったが、間違った。完全なるラブストーリーだった…

ajatters are all fuckin shit garbage

revisit them in a few more years to see the real fruits of their labour

>>19796555
Because he can't interpret and understand Nichijou on anything but a surface level.

>dates raws for less than an hour a day
>wtf i can't understand anything!

imagine being this much of a brainlet

Reps feel like such a chore nowadays.
I seriously don't feel like I've made any progress in the last year or even two.

>>19796555
Not that anon, but Nichijou is a joke compared to Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei and other Kumeta Koji's works, if I were to judge based on your 'reasonably clever'. Nichijou is pretty much basic.

theres a logical and natural reason for this

sentence cards get boring after youve made like 10000 of them. i think you should just make vocab cards after that but i dont have a lot of vocab cards yet to back up my claim

>>19796584
lol im not trying to talk about extremes im just saying i think its tough for a beginner to get the most out of a thing like nichijo when they could just read naurto

>>19796581
>I seriously don't feel like I've made any progress in the last year or even two.
Maybe because you haven't.

>>19796590
I agree, and I think this is also true for most comedy manga (just look at how many people here didn't get the まるまる joke from Yotsubato), but on the other hand they have more reread value since you don't read them for the story, so I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with reading that stuff as a beginner and going back to it later to see what you missed the first time around.

>>19794601
Are you talking about the comic panel or the comments?
If the latter, then yes.

>>19796621
absolutely its great to enjoy something again in a new way

im not saying someone who wants to read nichijo but is a beginner shouldnt read it but i wouldnt point a boundless person to it

>>19796624
that dudes just gonna lash out at you and make some generic you dont know japanese comment watch out it happebned to me

I think I understand why there's a DJT on /int/ as well.

>>19796621
>>19796590
Yes. Just read whatever you want. I started to take reading seriously with Koimonogatari, when I barely can read kanji at all 6 years ago. You can still learn something from Nichijou and Yotsubato anyway

.>>19796641
Ah, that autistic faggot. Let him. I don't actually care anymore.

>learning the hardest language in the world to watch cartoons

>>19796662
Oh no, he fell for the reddit meme

>>19796662
youre supposed to learn it while watching cartoons what the fucks your problem

>>19796662
I'm not learning to watch cartoons, I'm learning to get a cute nip trophy wife

>>19796662
I learn it to read books.

>>19796662
Uh, I'm actually learning it to read modern Japanese literature (素晴らしき日々, 黒須ちゃん寝る, 装甲悪鬼村正 etc.)

no one in djt can handle high maintenance bitches

just find a ugly girl like tomoko and close your eyes and pretend shes that hot chick that does porn that you jack off to

ugly girls pussies feel just as good

>>19796687
>not Erewhon

>>19796662
yes thats right, but primarily for erotic video games
>>19796693
what i wouldnt give to date an ugly girl....

I need JLPT Tango N5 book
does anyone have it?

>>19796707
you don't actually need it

>>19796696
殿下 hasn't rated that game.

>>19796518
Unless I'm reading your chart wrong you seem to have averaged about a little over one hour per day of active listening across 3 months. How can you claim they're wrong when you spend literally 1/4th the daily hours of active listening that some of them have done? Brit and Matt both did 4 hours of active listening, 2 hours of reading, and 2 hours of anki per day. And passively listened more than that.

>>19796733
Forgot to mention that black guy with the heavy British accent also did 4-5 hours of active listening a day. That dirty ponty-tailed redhead claimed he only averaged 1 hour of active listening (he regretted doing so little) but would spend all day reading and passively listening.

>>19796555
I read the first 3 volumes and felt like it would be a nice step above yotsubato. I agree it is well written but it is still not that difficult even compared to an easier light novel.

Man, who would've thought that a board filled with people pretending to be autistic would be actually flooded with autists

self loathing much lmao

仙台弁使う映画存在しているか？

what

>>19796733
I realize that they put in more hours, but they started from zero and I am starting from a decent level. My main problem is they always claim to understand so much, but it doesn't seem like any of them ever check to see how much they actually understand. There are so many times that I think I understand something until I check and realize I completely misunderstood it. It is like trying to teach yourself math by solving problems, but you never check the answers in the back of the book.

When I watch my first new series, I am going to watch the entire thing raw and then watch it again with English subtitles. Then I will actually know how much I understood.

I have no problems with massive immersion, and I'm sure it works, but I just think their self-assessed levels of understanding are very biased.

Is this really how japanese people talk?

>>19796876
tv and movies general の皆さんに訊いてください。

>>19796679
What chance does a slightly balding white guy with visible love handles in his late 20s have in nipland?

>>19797022
that u m***?

>>19796662
>learning the language of literal beast and old enemy

>>19796668
it's not a meme it's true. just because YMMV depending on interest doesn't mean japanese isn't the most difficult. why would you compare language difficulty factoring something as varied as interest? given someone has the same interest in japanese and german, japanese will be way harder. yes if someone doesn't give a shit about german but gives a shit about japanese, then that will make it harder to learn german and may even make it harder to learn than japanese but that's not the question people care about.

>>19797030
No, I'm a well-adjusted blackman with a hoodie.

>>19797022
judging by your post none

>>19797022
Depends how much you pay.

Is there any footage of Rachel from Rachel and Jun speaking Japanese? How good is she?

>>19797244
not as good as matt and i'm not trolling.

>>19797244
much better than matt and im not trolling

>双葉(name)のことを思えば思うほど
Can anyone clarify what exactly is meant by "思えば思うほど"?
The machine translator translates it as "the more I think about Futaba" but I don't really get it.

>>19797273
https://www.renshuu.org/index.php?page=grammar%2Findividual&id=316&show=16812

>>19797285
appreciated

>>19797273
its a set kind of construction to say something like what the google warrior above me pasted

やればやるほど慣れてくるよ

>>19796707
anyone?

>>19797244
on the same level as matt and I'm not trolling

>>19797372
whos matt and im not even trolling

>>19792682
Japanese "hi" is more palatised, resulting in a sound somewhere between English "hi" and "shi". Same reason si becomes shi and ti becomes chi

ç

how many mistakes a day is too much when reviewing RTK with anki?

the biggest mistake is rtk and anki unless you can give me a good enough reason why youre doing them

>>19797467
wanted to stop "learning how to learn" and decided to start with it.

recommend me some eroges/nukiges to learn some shit and beat my meat

Who is the Aesop Rock of Japanese rap?

kid fresino

>>19797483
sucks when you quit trying to learn how to learn and go straight for the incorrect method

>>19797486
素晴らしき日々

>>19797486
装甲悪鬼村正
神咒神威神楽
信天翁航海録
紅殻町博物誌
霞外籠逗留記
花散峪山人考

>>19797508
so what is the objectively "correct method" in your opinion?

>>19797535
not that guy *snorts and pushes up glasses* but its spending extensive time with and engaging with nihongo

>>19794281
I'd like to know this also. Has anyone bothered to collate a list, or create an infographic, of suggested reading progression?

Yotsubato -> ???

>>19797549
Naruto

>>19797549
see >>19797523

>>19797549
here you go now you have no excuses

shit I forgot to do my anki reps again

>>19797549
Yotsubato -> Non Non Biyori -> New Game -> ??? -> Fluent

guys, I want on NukeMarine's discord to get hold of a PDF of the JLPT N4 book and found a dude who had the PDF and he won't share it with me because Nuke told him so and that it's copyright etc.
how can a fucking weeb who downloads anime, subs and other stuff for free be so cucked in the head? it's a 5MB worth of file

fancy that a cuck calling others cucked

>>19797640
nuke doesn't watch anime

>>19797647
didnt say that he did
he's supporting people that do though like Matt who's open about torrenting shit

>>19797640
you don't need n4 pdfs. just read nhk easy for a week.

>>19797657
i need the book because i have autism
i know that there are better sources but im so fixed on the idea of going thru those books pal

>>19797640
you dont need n4 pdfs you just need http://vmashup.com/2uKSdLWV

>>19797665
you think its some magic pill that will make you pro because matt vs japan said it was cool. guess what he didnt read that shit neither did anyone who is good did. quit your autistic procrastination and start learning japanese

>>19797647
No wonder he doesn't know Japanese.

if you had spent all that energy on reading instead you'd already be n4

おはようございます
エロいお姉さんにちんこを入りたい

>>19797686

>>19797673
yes, you described my delusion
but i saw similar book and i love the way it's written out and i would thoroughly enjoy the sentences
but nukemarine's deck is behind a paywall
no more sharing of decks, it's all business, if rich Americans hadnt enough money already

>>19797723
>入りたい

>>19797682
he doesn't?

https://youtu.be/UHAa0mFOsYM?t=186
Haha so true

>>19797727

>>19797749
はいりたいじゃなくて
いりたい
バカ

https://youtu.be/BSkZJzJLmHQ

>>19797766
>いりたい

バカはお前だ

お風呂に入りたいなぁ

>>19797723
>>19797766
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xUw6InGnqY#t=3

>>19797779
はい。いりたいです

>>19797802
いい天気ですね

>>19797486
Kashidashi Tsuma Marina

>>19797806
そうですね

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4JA0OBK_MQ#t=82

あっ　間違えた
ちんこを入れたい

What are the rough skill levels for each 1000th sentence card added? (up to 10000)

>>19797848
0 all the way.

quote this post if you know japanese

@19797875

>>19797872
b a s e d

可愛い少女のうんこを食べたい
おしっこも飲みたい

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xC_YFUaSsqs

可愛い少女はうんこを入れたい

>>19797925
それはちょっと変
彼女のうんこならたぶんオッケー

how much reading until i have a decent grasp of the vast majority of grammar and just need to learn a lot more words for things to become comprehensible

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9ufP3Kn4Uk

>>19797969
If you need to ask, you aren't there yet.

>>19797969
How do you learn English? It's the same process.

>>19797978
i know that's why i'm asking how much reading is needed

>>19797969
約5ヵ月間

>>19797986
more than youll ever do you will suck forever deal with it

What is the required dosage of xanax to get through a full episode of terrace house?

>>19797986
Instead of asking you should be reading.

>>19797959
イメージは何が起こってるんのか
エロそう

>>19797988
damn that's a lot of months

about the same amount of xanny you need to get through a djt thread

>go to a discord for a pdf of a book
>hey dude i see you have that book would you share it with me?
>no, i dont support piracy
>but you must watch anime and download subs and watch videos on youtube that aren't perfectly legal
>i watch anime on crunchyroll
>b-but you must've downloaded a wallpaper from some random place
>that's not my problem cos I use Mint

goddamn why did weebs become such huge faggots?

>>19798015
>go to a discord
yameru'd yomu'ing right soko.

>>19798015
>go to a discord for a pdf of a book
what the fuck are you doing

>>19798015

genki 1 + 2. minna no nihongo 1 + 2. tyler kim beginner grammar. any of those resources are freely available on the internet and take you to your coveted n4 level

>>19798015
yeah not reading all that

7 decides what i read next

>>19798015
>subs
yeah your not going to make it

>>19798051
If you're going to criticize him at least read the post instead of picking out something random.

>>19798031
went to nuke's discord but he threw me away

>>19798061
yeah, I'm not reading all that shit.

>>19798073
Then don't reply and make yourself look like a total fucking idiot.

if you can understand this you know japanese

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYzemVliRC8#t=95

nigoyonnigoyonniggerniggernigger

>>19797985
Spend 12+ years in school?

>>19798015
What book? AB has most, including Genki.

>>19797640
>discord
Found your problem

>>19798093

>>19798114
JLPT N5 1000

i already forget what i learned from tae kim's guide yesterday

if i was going to hypothetically learn nihongo

hypothetically how many hours would it take hypothetically