/jp/ - Otaku Culture

A...

un.

あ

うん？

>>19707426
This cute dog has three threads, way to go Aun!

AH!

あうん！

UN!

Aun!

A N

A

N

Auntism

>>19707697
My aunt is a samurai warrior.

>>19707510
Not a dog.

AUNN MY WIFE DUDES!!!!!!!

>>19708858
If Aunn isn't a dog, how come she wants her belly rubbed and is the goodest boy?

>>19713818
if aunn is a boy why is she a girl

>>19714102
Because she wears the pants in the relationship.

>>19714425
Aun doesn't wear pants she wears shorts!

>>19712220
tag:implied_futa

>>19715787
Truly, Aunn always was the Hidden Star in Four Seasons all along.

A...


CUTE!

>>19716509
I'd pay to see them rut like dogs

>>19718173
It'd be like that image Fatalpulse did of Chen and Rin both being in heat, but in doggystyle and with more bite marks instead of scratch marks.

>>19718173
>>19718470
Nice fanon.

>>19719414
Aunn is capable of asexual reproduction, but don't tell Kyouko.

>>19719458
That's not reproduction in the biological, that's magic cloning derived from the fact that komainu and shiisaa are almost always presented in pairs. Such is their nature as guardian lion beast youkai.

>>19716774

>>19719513
>guardian lion beast youkai
Guard dog.

>>19722456
Nice fanon. She was never a dog. Komainu and shiisa are lions.

>>19726200
It doesn't matter if they were never dogs, what matters is that the Japanese people see Aunn as doglike. There are no dogs in Gensokyo, even Kyouko is considered a dog among the Japanese 2hu community. As I've said before in another thread, if an Anatolian goddess can become a Greek Titan, then a lion can be a dog. That's just how the world works: on the power of belief.

>>19726335
Fanon does not become canon no matter how much you cry for it. Yes, she is depicted as a dog in canon. That is not what was argued. What was argued was that she never has acted like a dog at all in canon and never was a dog in canon. She is an animated stone guard lion nothing more.

>>19726346
Of course she's not a dog in canon, anon. She's not even a lion either. Komainu aren't exactly lions, yet I have no idea why you keep assuming she is one when komainu aren't entirely that. People calling her a dog has no bearing on canon, so you really shouldn't get so worked up about it.

>>19727758
It seems you are, again, conveniently ignoring the fact that Aunn is half shiisaa as well. Shiisaa literally translates to lion. Aunn is a stone lion youkai. Nothing more, nothing less.

>>19727802
And half-dog, which is literally translated to dog regardless of how you skew it. She's completely neither, but both at the same time so it's totally fine to call her a dog despite not being one as it doesn't matter if a 2hu isn't a dog for a person to call one as such. Sakuya's a dog too as far as I care.

>>19727839
stop responding

>>19727802
And half-dog, which is literally translated to dog regardless of how you skew it. She's completely neither, but both at the same time so it's totally fine to call her a dog despite not being one as it doesn't matter if a 2hu isn't a dog for a person to call one as such. Sakuya's a dog too as far as I care.

I have no idea why or when I saved a thumbnail.

>>19727843
You know what? You're right. Fuck that guy for ruining every Aunn thread he's in.

>>19728903
Not a puppy nor a dog.
>>19728832
Nice. All of her spell cards that have to do with curves are references to the komainu's/shiisaa's curly lion mane.

I want to suck on Aunn's horn and ears.

I love this fluffy dog.

>>19726346
>>19727802
>>19729184

>>19733858
Aunn is not a dog, such fanon is shit. She is lion.
>>19733876
Fun isn't ruining canon.

>>19733888
Why aren't you in Sanae or Kasen thread getting pissy at people calling them sluts then?

>>19733906
Those are obviously jokes. The vast majority of retards here seriously believe Aunn is a dog, however.

>>19733929
You are really bad at reading people aren't you? Pretty much everyone knows she is not a dog, they just like treating her like one because it's cute and fun, and the people saying it like it's a fact are being intentionally cheeky because they think your over-reactions are funny. (Seriously, if you want to come off as if you don't care and that you're not taking bait, you're doing an awful job)
Oh, and in VD, Sumireko calls Aunn "WanWan", so the idea that Aunn was never intended to RESEMBLE a dog is straight-up wrong.

>>19733975
>>>19733929 (You)
>You are really bad at reading people aren't you?
If people consistently bait on purpose then they deserve to have their hook pulled down into the ocean.
>Oh, and in VD, Sumireko calls Aunn "WanWan", so the idea that Aunn was never intended to RESEMBLE a dog is straight-up wrong.
This ""argument"" was debunked last thread. Sumireko calls Seiran's danmaku suppositories. Does this mean that ZUN intended for her danmaku to look like suppositories? No, they were always meant to resemble gun bullets. Sumireko is a dumb teenager who makes dumb observations. ZUN himself described komainu to be derived from the sphinx (a lion) and he specifically says Aunn has elements of a shiisaa/shishi (both words literally translate to lion). Aunn was always intended to be lion-like. Not like a submissive dog.

>>19734025
>ZUN himself described komainu to be derived from the sphinx (a lion)
Setting aside anything ZUN has said about Aun, the komainu in Japanese mythology is a kind of dog. The fact that the original legend of the komainu refers to a tiger (or a sphinx) does not make komainu into tigers or sphinxes any more than the fact that the original legend of the kirin refers to a giraffe makes kirin into giraffes.

>>19734025
"If people throw bait at me, i'll give them exactly what they want, that'll show them and get them to stop!" Your logic astounds me.

>>19734041
Ah, another retard conveniently forgetting that Aunn is half shiisaa and komainu are half dogs half lions (even though they were originally all-lion). This means that Aunn is 3/4ths lion and 1/4th dog. It doesn't matter anyway, ZUN has never used the word inu to describe Aunn and has only ever referred to her as a lion. Aunn has never acted like a dog. Never. Stop your shitty Reddit headcanon this instant.
>>19734077
Who are you quoting?

>>19734096
Im summing up your thought process, if you seriously think giving baiters exactly what they want is "Pulling them down to the ocean", you're objectively an idiot.

I told you all the translation whining shit would end like this.

>>19734106
I'm glad you have figured out what it takes to have this nonsense stop. Perhaps they should stop replying or baiting instead, right?
>>19734110
This is not about translation, this is about shitty headcanons you Redditumblr scumbag.

>>19734138
When bait is thrown at you in order to make you angry (And, again, if you're trying to come off as not angry, you're awful at it), people are only going to stop when they get bored of it or when you stop repplying, nothing that you actively do will have any effect on causing them to stop, because what you actively choose to do is exactly what they want, they WANT to see more angry repplies, more "Kill yourself", and more "Reddiscordumblr" insults. If you seriously think stuff like what you're doing is what gets them to stop, you're delusional.

>>19734184
Wow, it's almost like they should stop shitposting or something and these threads would be peaceful again.

>>19734110
This has nothing to do with translation, and everything with a mental illness. Try saying that tengus were depicted wearing panties in canon material.

>>19734220
Yes, tengu were depicted wearing panties in canon material approved by ZUN. In AFiEU, a very trusted and reliable source. Meanwhile Aunn has never been depicted as acting like a dog in canon ever.

>>19734138
>>19734220
My point is that before that crap happened, people were calling Aunn a doggly doggo just fine. All it did was act as a lightning rod for autismos.

>>19734096
>Ah, another retard conveniently forgetting that Aunn is half shiisaa and komainu
I specifically said, "setting aside anything ZUN has said about Aun," so as to make clear that I was referring komainu the mythological creature only.

>are half dogs half lions (even though they were originally all-lion).
You ignored my entire post disputing this.

You are essentially indistinguishable from a bot.

>>19734311
>Doggly doggo
The point is that doggo and it's corruptions is a purely Reddit term (literally originated there) that has no place in /jp/ or 4chan as a whole for that matter.
>>19734315
You truly don't know a lick of what the inu in komainu is even supposed to represent, right? Komainu were never dogs. Go in the archive and look at the last Aunn thread. There was an entire discussion about the origins of the komainu.

>>19734327
>You truly don't know a lick of what the inu in komainu is even supposed to represent, right?
Someone whipped up a linguistic theory out of nowhere claiming that inu doesn't always indicate dog, with no sources and no support. You'll have to do better than that.

>>19734311
You have some autismo go apeshit about things all the time ("Etarnity"). Aunn threads are just the latest target of the shitposter.

>>19734334
It is easily available for you to search online. Even if you someone misconstrued komainu to lliterally mean 'korean dog' (a lot of scholars disagree on this), it does not change the fact that Aunn is majority part lion over dog and the fact that she has never acted like a dog.
>>19734346
Since when were facts shitposts again?

>>19734411
>It is easily available for you to search online.
I have searched online in both English and Japanese and not found a source claiming that inu refers to animals other than dogs.

>>19734444
http://www.photo-make.jp/hm_2/komainu_kaisetu.html
perfectly explains the lion statue's origins
http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~dw7y-szk/faq.htm
gives a detailed analysis of the kanji in komainu, it was never meant to say korea or dog

>>19727843
Is this truly that hard? Let him claim whatever the fuck he likes. It doesn't matter. Just ignore him. Stop feeding the troll, that's it.

>>19734463
>http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~dw7y-szk/faq.htm

This source states that in Japan, komainu and lions were separate entities.
>それに対して、日本に入ってからアレンジされた「獅子・狛犬」は、獅子という動物と狛犬という動物（どちらも想像上の動物）、２つの異なるものが組み合わさっているという点で中国獅子とはまず違っています。

It does say that over time, the distinction became blurred until that today both the "shishi" and the "komainu" are simply considered "komainu" in the modern day, but that does not support your "Aun is 75% lion" theory because nowhere in this source does it claim that the komainu itself was derived from the lion. Rather, it posits that the komainu is either a strange mysterious dog (体不明の怪しい犬) or a cross between a dog and a "koma".

Again, ignoring what ZUN had to say, if one is to consider the "shishi" and the "komainu" as having bled into a single entity, that entity is either 50% tiger and 50% dog (definition 1) or 50% tiger, 25% dog and 25% "koma" (definition 2).

>>19734563
We were talking about the naming of komainu. Yes, the komainu is a fusion of a mythological koma and a lion but it was never a dog. Read the section entitled "狛犬は「高麗犬」だから、ルーツは朝鮮半島では？" in the second link. It is clearly adresses the misconception of the meaning of the wof komainu and where it's two kanji came from (hint: it's definitely not korea and dog).

>>19734582
>Read the section entitled "狛犬は「高麗犬」だから、ルーツは朝鮮半島では？" in the second link. It is clearly adresses the misconception of the meaning of the wof komainu and where it's two kanji came from (hint: it's definitely not korea and dog).
I did. In that section, there are two definitions.

>１）「狛」は本来、中華思想（中国が世界の中心だとする思想）では「周辺の野蛮な地」を指していた。従って、狛犬は「中国の外（野蛮な異国の地）に棲む正体不明の怪しい犬」という意味で、想像上の霊獣。
Under this definition, the komainu is simply a dog. Not a Korean dog, but a dog nevertheless.
>２）「狛」は今では中国でも使われなくなった言葉だが、本来「神獣」の意味。犬に似ていて頭部に角があり、猛々しい姿をしている。
Under this definition, the komainu is a mythological beast that looks like a dog.

In either case, the komainu (pre-merging of shishi and komainu) is 0% lion.

>>19734609
The komainu isn't zero percent lion. How retarded can you be to even come to that conclusion? The komainu is 0 percent dog. The komainu was specifically influenced from the chinese shishi. Did you even read both articles? They gave the same detailed history. A komainu is a lion in the same way a baku is a tapir. Yes, they are their own mythological "species" but a koma is 100% based on a lion just like a baku is 100% based on a tapir. Even then, if you somehow believe that a komainu is 0 percent lion then that means Aunn is 50% random beast youkai and 50% shiisaa (lion). The komainu was never meant to look like a dog. The author of the second page himself summed it up perfectly.
>また狛犬は「こま」の「犬」ではなく、あくまでも「こまいぬ」という空想の動物なのです。「犬」ではありません。
　その意味では、獅子（ライオン）も、昔の日本人は実物を見たことがありませんから、同じように空想上の動物だったのです。
　このへんの誤解は広辞苑、大辞林などの辞書にもそのまま掲載されてしまっているようで、早めに訂正を徹底させたほうがいいと思われます。
The komainu is not a dog. It is a mythological creature. It was based on a lion as an import pf the Chinese shishi and an older fantastic beast called a koma.

>>19734631
cute doggo

>>19734663

>>19734631
>A komainu is a lion in the same way a baku is a tapir.
A komainu is a lion the same way a kirin is a giraffe. It's not. Nobody would say a kirin is 100% giraffe. It's explicitly different from a lion.

>Even then, if you somehow believe that a komainu is 0 percent lion then that means Aunn is 50% random beast youkai and 50% shiisaa (lion).
That might be more precise, but for some reason, this random beast youkai happens to highly resemble a dog, to the point where people will call it one. They call it a "koma-dog" and not a "koma".

>>19734663
>>19734668
The term doggo has originated on Reddit and Tumblr. Please do not use that here or get out of /jp/. Komainu were never dogs. Aunn never acted like a dog. Aunn is a youkai which heavily bases itself on a lion.
>>19734694
People call it one because it has the kanji for dog in its name. The komainu is literally derived from Chinese shishi (lion) statues. You cannot deny that fact. Aunn is not dog like at all.

>>19734710
>People call it one because it has the kanji for dog in its name.
It has the kanji for dog in the name because it resembles a dog. They don't call it a komaneko.

doggo says wan

>>19734736
Are you fucking retarded? It doesn't have inu in it's name because it resembles a dog. Didn't you read the article? Didn't you read where that second part came from? It certainly wasn't to promote the word dog.
>>19734792
>doggo
Take your Reddit meme somewher else.

>>19734792
This doggo is for furries.

>>19736272
>doggo
Take your Redditism out of /jp/

>>19734138
>>19734327
>>19734411
>>19734710
>>19736219
>>19736596

doggo

Yeah I'm from reddit and tumblr, and I l like calling Aun a doggo

Stay mad faggot, I'm gonna keep calling her doggo because I like getting the likes of you mad like autistic faggot

Wan, two, three, time to fall for the dog

>>19737042
The pupper is cuter with her Hawaiian shirt.

>>19737042
cute outfit Aunn!

Haha wow what a shitty thread! Cute pics though.

Aun is a dog! A cute one!

>>19736219
>Didn't you read the article? Didn't you read where that second part came from?
Which article, and what lines?

This autism kinda reminds me of a certain poster on /a/ when it comes to Madoka and shipping. Doesn't seem like he's there anymore though.

>>19737739
everyone's the same when they're being controlled by Amygdala

>>19737739
He just likes playing hard to get sometimes.

>>19737042
>>19737594
>>19737814
Not a dog. Nice fanon.
>>19737719
The second article
>>19734463
in the section which talks about the origin of the "gogureyo dog"

>>19740191
I quoted the definitions IN THAT VERY SECTION that indicate that the 狛 either IS A DOG (正体不明の怪しい犬) or that it RESEMBLES A DOG (犬に似ていて).

Quote the exact section in "where that second part came from" is explained, as in, why the word for 狛犬 has the kanji for 犬 in it.

>>19740284
The koma has it's origins in Chinese shishi, as explained earlier in the article. Yes, they may resemble dogs but they are not dogs. They come from a long tradition of guardian lion symbolism stretching from Africa to the Middle East to India and then to China.

>>19740372
>The koma has it's origins in Chinese shishi,
My question is very simple. The word for 狛犬 has the kanji for 犬 in it.

WHY does 狛犬 have a 犬 in it?

Are there good vocal arranges of her theme where the singer goes "A! NNN!" repeatedly yet?

>>19740423
Just listen to the original song with an intense JAV in the background.

>>19740388
It literally says in the article why
>また狛犬は「こま」の「犬」ではなく、あくまでも「こまいぬ」という空想の動物なのです。「犬」ではありません。

>>19734548
Claim? There is no claim, only fact. Aunn has never acted like a dog in the series. The two creatures she is based on are not dogs. She does not bark, woof, or awoo like a dog. Take your headcanon somewhere else.

>>19740622
>また狛犬は「こま」の「犬」ではなく、あくまでも「こまいぬ」という空想の動物なのです。「犬」ではありません。
This is not an explanation, in ANY WAY, of why the character for 犬 is in 狛犬.

>>19740622
>また狛犬は「こま」の「犬」ではなく、あくまでも「こまいぬ」という空想の動物なのです。「犬」ではありません。
This is not an explanation, in ANY WAY, of why the character for 犬 is in 狛犬.

The only possible reading of this sentence that implies a "reason" for the 犬 character is if you were going to claim that 犬 is an ateji reading for いぬ. But that still doesn't explain where the いぬ came from. And it's an obviously incorrect reading anyway.

>>19741011
The point is that the komainu isn't a dog, a sentiment expressed by the author of the article. There is no one explanation for the appearance of the inu kanji in komainu. It's all theories that are lost. We don't know what happened between naming the statue "koma" (as in fantastic beast) to the now present "komainu". Anything that tries to explain it is theories. What we do know, however, is that the koma was based on the Chinese shishi and that it eventually became komainu. Shiisaa has a similar origin, being derived entirely from shishi.

>>19741081
>We don't know what happened between naming the statue "koma" (as in fantastic beast) to the now present "komainu".
And therefore, you cannot exclude the very fucking obvious theory that a 狛犬 became a 狛犬 instead of just a 狛 because the 狛犬 had 犬-like properties.

>What we do know, however, is that the koma was based on the Chinese shishi
No, it was not. The komainu was based on the Chinese shishi, yes; the pair of shishi statues from China became a shisaa-komainu pair in Japan. But the origins of the koma itself, as provided by your own source, does not mention the shishi anywhere. It mentions dogs.

>>19740632
Sorry what I was meant to say was "retarded claim," woof.

Ignoring the retard and his muses I count 55 actual posts, wan!

>>19741711

>>19741147
Such a theory is a theory and nothing more, it has no credence over other theories. The facts are that the komainu is a fusion of the forgotten koma youkai and the Chinese shishi. 狛 (bó) is a Chinese character that described a long forgotten legendary beast with a horn, it came into Japan where it's pronunciation turned into "koma". There are 0 (zero) records of this youkai anywhere in ancient Japanese texts, it only exists in obscure ancient Chinese scrolls. This koma animal and the Chinese guardian lion (石獅/shishi) were both imported into Japan at the same time. In Japan, the left "a" statue was originally called the shishi while the right "un" statue was called the koma. Over time, the left statue became known as komainu for some unknown reason. No one knows where the 犬 came from. The Chinese bó was never described as a 犬 (quan/dog). Even further along time, both statues became to be known as komainu. The shishi and the koma fused to become one entity, the komainu. In China, the shishi and bó (koma) were always separate youkai. Here's my theory: Chinese Buddhists adopt lion statues from India and appropriate them into shishi. Later, the book "扼土狛，殪天狗" was written in China, containing the bó (koma) youkai. The Chinese bó came to Korea after or at the same time as shishi. Japanese Buddhist monks who were on pilgrimage abroad then imported the shishi and bó (koma) from China and/or Korea to Japan when they returned. In Japan, it was assumed that 狛 (bó/koma) was a synonym for 石獅 (shishi) both meaning lion. They thought the only difference between a bó (koma) and a shishi was the pressence of a horn on the koma's head. They were wrong as the bó was not a lion, but a separate youkai unrelated to lions or dogs and unrelated to shishi. 狛 used to mean lion and Korea in ancient Japanese. This is supported by the fact that the ancient Japanese scroll, "信西古樂圖" (old performance picture of shinzei) depicts Korean lion dances as drawn by Japanese artist and Buddhist monk 藤原 通憲 (Fujiwara no Michinori). The scroll features various Korean lion dances and one of them is labelled "新羅狛" (shiragi koma lit. lion from silla). Silla was an ancient Korean Kingdom. 狛 was used to mean lion and durning the same time was also a nickname for Korea that the Japanese connected to lions, which supports the hypothesis that the shishi and koma did infact come from Korea to Japan and not from China to Japan. Koma and shishi statues were common in Japan and were assumed to depict the same creature, a lion (one with a horn and one without), but they eventually converged and both became "komainu". No one knows how, when, or where 犬 came from when it combined with 狛. Shiisaa, on the other hand, came directly from Chinese shishi to Okinawa where there was no confusion between youkai, thus shiisaa were always known to be lions. The rest is history.

This is a tale of terrible misunderstanding on the part of the Japanese. They changed the meaning of a character (koma) multiple times and, at some unknown point, added a completely unrelated character (inu) to the mix. There is no commonly accepted theory as to what inu actually meant in komainu when it first was added to the word. How does this relate to Aunn? Aunn is half komainu half shiisa. She is part lion youkai part lion youkai. The dog part need not apply as komainu were never thought of in any part of history as dogs. Even if you think komainu is a lion dog then that means Aunn is 3/4ths lion, and one fourth dog. Even still, Aunn has never acted like a dog in all canon material so far. She is a youkai first and foremost, a youkai based on a forgotten horned Chinese beast which was misinterpreted as a Korean lion, a Buddhist guardian lion, and an Okinawan guardian lion. What is your rebuttal? Every single piece of evidence here is fact. Aunn is not a dog. Poc related is the Korean lion dance. The shiragi koma.
>>19741665
>>19741711
Serious discussion on Japanese history is not retardation. You know what is retardation? You and your shit fanon. Aunn is not a dog. Aunn is a komainu and shiisa. A youkai lion guardian. Stop with your shitty fanon. Gaoo gaoo. A~unn.

>>19741816
>Shiragikoma.jpg
more like Voltron.jpg

What a cute dog.

mofu mofu with the cute doggo

>>19742440
Not a dog, she's a beautiful and endearing komainu shiisa hybrid. A youkai lion guardian through and through.
>>19742470
>doggo
You have to go back.

>>19742440
I wanna pet that pup!

>>19742543
Aunn Komano is a guardian lion beast youkai, not a puppy.

>>19742543

>>19742608
Aunn is not a dog. She is a guardian lion beast youkai. Please educate yourself. A~unn!
>doggo
Plesse go back to Tumblr or Reddit.

>>19741816
>The shishi and the koma fused to become one entity, the komainu.
>Koma and shishi statues were common in Japan and were assumed to depict the same creature, a lion (one with a horn and one without), but they eventually converged and both became "komainu".
You are mixing two events: the import of the shishi statues into Japan as the shiisaa-komainu combo, and the eventual dropping of the shiisaa term so that both became referred to as komainu. The komainu and the shiisaa were not the same creature in Japanese reckoning, and did not "become" so until much later.

>In Japan, it was assumed that 狛 (bó/koma) was a synonym for 石獅 (shishi) both meaning lion. They thought the only difference between a bó (koma) and a shishi was the pressence of a horn on the koma's head. They were wrong as the bó was not a lion, but a separate youkai unrelated to lions or dogs and unrelated to shishi. 狛 used to mean lion and Korea in ancient Japanese. This is supported by the fact that the ancient Japanese scroll, "信西古樂圖" (old performance picture of shinzei) depicts Korean lion dances as drawn by Japanese artist and Buddhist monk 藤原 通憲 (Fujiwara no Michinori).
The paper 大和の獅子・狛犬 (http://hdl.handle.net/10105/8847)) suggests that the creature which stands opposite the shishi was, before it was brought to Japan, a distinct mythical creature known as a 兕.
>左右不均衡なもう一つのタイプとして獅子と兕という一対が現れる。中国で信仰された空想上の霊獣のことで、これを兕と称せられ、それがわが国に伝来してから「狛犬」と呼ばれるようになった。
This casts doubt on the theory that Japanese monks simply failed to recognize two forms of "shishi" and turned one of them into a "komainu."

>Koma and shishi statues were common in Japan and were assumed to depict the same creature
There is no evidence that the "koma" as a creature distinct from "komainu" ever made it to Japan at all.

>There is no commonly accepted theory as to what inu actually meant in komainu when it first was added to the word.
The Japanese have had dogs since the Jomon period. 犬 means dog. If you want claim that 犬 ever meant something other than dog you'll have to provide evidence.

>The dog part need not apply as komainu were never thought of in any part of history as dogs.
Whether the people who did so were right to do so or not, your own source indicates that komainu began being depicted as dogs in many parts of Japan.
>この時期には、そもそも「こまいぬ」を見たことがない石工が造る狛犬が増えたため、素朴な「犬」のような狛犬が全国各地で造られるようになりました。

>>19740423
Would this count?
https://youtu.be/MtS0JUPvh-Q?t=1m4s

>>19740423
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fsNA5oJ0P0

>>19742789
>the komainu and the shiisaa were not the same creature in japanese recokoning
Which is exactly what I said. The koma and the shishi, however, were. As koma was a synonym for lion at some point in time which later became combined with the inu kanji for an unknown reason. The shiisaa and komainu then became the same being sometime after that. 狛 was used as a synonym for lion in a lot of texts that describe lion dances, as proved by Fujiwara no Michinorni's picture of the Korean lion dance I presented earlier, which contains the kanji 狛, which, by itself, became a nickname for Korea as a whole most likely due to that fact that koma and shishi came to Japan from Korea directly and not China.
>the creature which stands opposite the shishi was, before it was brought to Japan, a distinct mythical creature known as 兕
Except we don't call komainu 兕犬, we call them 狛犬. I think that paper is making a false correlation, yes the 兕 (sí) may have some relation to the komainu through its one horn but in Chinese the character always described a rhinoceros, even in ancient times. In ancient Japanese the character 兕 (shi) was akin to the word unicorn or monoceros (one horned animal). The Chinese bó (狛), as we've discussed, was a legendary beast youkai with a single horn. That character entered Korea and became a kanji (koma) in Japanese around or before the time Japanese Buddhists also adopted the shishi. Koma, as I've just explained, became to be a synonym for lion and a nickname for Korea. Any one horned animal could have be described using 兕, but the fact is that 狛 appears in komainu and is a better fitting one horned animal youkai that came to be known as a lion. The left statue was always known as shishi and the right statue was the koma. Yes, koma, as a one horned beast, could be described using the term 兕 but that was not its species, just a category.
>左右不均衡なもう一つのタイプとして獅子と兕という一対が現れる。中国で信仰された空想上の霊獣のことで、これを兕と称せられ、それがわが国に伝来してから「狛犬」と呼ばれるようになった。
>This casts doubt on the theory that Japanese monks simply failed to recognize two forms of "shishi" and turned one of them into a "komainu."
That sentiment literally supports everything I said, however. For a time being koma and shishi were different creatures in the same guardian pair that eventually both became komainu for some reason. The Japanese already knew the shishi was a lion, and I already proved that koma was a synonym for lion in Japanese. The horned koma and shishi intially were never the same yokai, but they were recognized to be similar. That is why they were put into pairs with each other. Their names literally both meant lion, after all.
>Koma and shishi statues were common in Japan and were assumed to depict the same creature
>There is no evidence that the "koma" as a creature distinct from "komainu" ever made it to Japan at all
Funny you say that when the paper you just cited as evidence recognizes that the present day komainu is a fusion of the koma youkai and the shishi statue. What's more, even if koma were not a yokai in Japan at all it does not change the fact the kanji 狛 was adopted into Japan anyway and originally was a synonym for lion as well.

>>19742789
pt. 2
>There is no commonly accepted theory as to what inu actually meant in komainu when it first was added to the word.
>The Japanese have had dogs since the Jomon period. 犬 means dog. If you want claim that 犬 ever meant something other than dog you'll have to provide evidence.
As you've probably figured out by now, any one kanji, especially ancient Japanese kanji, can have a whole host of separate meanings. The fact is no one knows why the inu kanji was added to koma to create komainu. I do not want to sit here and give you the several existing theories as to why but implying that it just meant dog by itself is ridiculous. The Buddhist artists and monks who have been building those koma and shishi statues for hundreds of years before inu was added to koma never once described the koma as a type of dog, you think they would suddenly just label the koma as a dog one day? No. Inu has separate etmyologies that can include to sleep, to guard, or to observe or to spy. This is not even including the fact that 犬 (dog) and 大 (big, great, grand), related Chinese characters, could have been confused with each other, considering the heavy usage of 大 (arch) in Japanese religion. Komainu could have originally meant grand lion or arch Lion or master lion or holy lion etc.
>The dog part need not apply as komainu were never thought of in any part of history as dogs.
Whether the people who did so were right to do so or not, your own source indicates that komainu began being depicted as dogs in many parts of Japan.
>この時期には、そもそも「こまいぬ」を見たことがない石工が造る狛犬が増えたため、素朴な「犬」のような狛犬が全国各地で造られるようになりました。
That part of the article suggests that, like I've said earlier, people had no fucking idea what s koma was and conflated it with the kanji for dog. Only esoteric Buddhist scholars and masons had knowledge of the koma kanji. That article is plainly telling you that copycat masons made their own "inu" statues based on the Komainu statues they saw in other places. And this was sometime after the introduction inu to komainu anyway.

My point still stands. Aunn is half shiisaa and half komainu. A komainu is not a dog, but a lion-like guardian youkai originating from the Chinese bó (koma) which became a synonym for lion and Korea in Japan. Today, popular culture dictates that komainu must be dogs because they have inu in their name. Such a gross simplification of a holy youkai which was known to Buddhist monks as a lion for longer than the modern era has even existed is a tragedy of language. Words change meaning but they do not change history. Aunn is a lion guardian youkai through her connection to the koma, the shishi, and the shiisaa. If you still want to believe the komainu is a "lion-dog" then go ahead. That doesn't change the fact that Aunn is more lion than dog. That Aunn has never once acted like a dog in the series. All that does is add 1/4th unrelated dog lineage to her complex inspiration. The komainu are not lions or dogs anymore. They are youkai. The shiisa were always lions. Aunn is a youkai lion. End of story.

Bump for the best dog.

>>19748535
Not a dog. She is a lion guardian youkai. Take your shitty headcanon back to Plebbit

>>19748544
kill yourself

>>19748558
Stay mad.

>>19748535
Cute pup!

>>19748745
Nice headcanon. Aunn is not a dog or a puppy. Aunn is a guardian lion beast youkai.

>>19734311
pretty much, this was never a problem for the multitude of aunn threads since HSiFS came out. but here's an idea. don't reply at all. just keep posting aunn.

>Aunn appreciation thread
>Devolves into a shitfest about whether or not Aunn is or is not a dog

You can't have a Komainu without the inu.

For that matter, Kyouko isn't a dog, and Kiene isn't a cow by a longshot, but I've yet to see anyone bitch this much about those.

>>19749324
Aunn is not a dog and that retarded inu shit was explained in multiple posts. Aunn is half shiisaa half komainu so even if you believe a komainu is a "lion dog" and not just a lion that would mean Aunn is 3/4ths lion and 1/4th dog. Even then, Aunn has never acted like a dog in canon. At all.

>>19749369

If it walks like a dog, it shall be portrayed as one.

Is she ready for the lewds?

>>19749394
Aunn has more lion themed spell cards than dog theme ones. Every spell card that references koma, komainu, or swirls are a reference to her lion nature. Retard, if you were here for the last two threads then you would know all those dogfag arguments were shot down. Aunn does not act like a dog at all. That is just shitty Reddit fanon.

Previous Aunn thread was up for 3 months. This one is nearly halfway to bump limit after 6 days.
Fuck you, lionfaggot, for ruining every last bit of comfiness with your autistic shit. Please get a tripcode.

>>19749420
Perhaps dogfags should migrate back to Tumblr and Reddit.

>>19749426
Listen the fuck up. Nobody cares. No really, nobody gives a damn. This is a character designed by ZUN, of all people. He doesn't let himself be bound by the original lore when it comes to his character design. For that matter, even in WaHH, Aunn is given the cheery, friendly characterization that is typically associated with canines. Even in Asian cultures, from which shiisaa originate, komainu and shiisaa are generally characterized as being rather dog-ish. And do you know why? Because humans generally find that dogs are cuter than lions. And in Japan, cute is king. If Aunn Komano being depicted as a dog truly offends you so deeply, maybe you'd be better served by learning japanese and bitching on the japanese imageboards and pixiv instead, because that's where most of the dog characterizations come from. At the very least, post some good images along with your little autism fueled spaz-outs.

>>19749426
>>19749629
Now look what you made me do. I posted a duplicate image. Absolutely disgraceful.

>>19749629
Why are you reposting the same shitty dog fanon picture that was used in this post?:
>>19716762

Aunn being gleeful doesn't make her a dog you fucking retard. Shiisaa are not dog like. Are you fucking retarded? Shiisaa literally translates to lion. Claiming that ZUN does not care about their inspiration is retarded. He does a lot of respearch. Furthermore, Aunn has never acted like a dog once in canon, has more lion themed spellcards, has shiisaa (not komainu) in her spell card background, has magatama eara and an okinawan shirt (both references to Okinawa as that is where shiisaa are from), and was compared to a sphinx (lion) by ZUN. Aunn being happy does not make her a dog. Fanon also dictates that kyouko is a dog. She is not and neither is Aunn. Stop reposting images and go back to Tumblr or Reddit where you belong, sick dogfag. Aunn is a lion guardian youkai. She is based heavily on stone lions, not dogs.

>>19749665
Zun also makes shit up. Just look at Satori. Satori youkai are ape-men. They sure as hell don't have literal 3rd eyes.
And that doesn't change my point that you are barking up the wrong tree. Learn the source language and attack the source directly if you are so passionate. /jp/ isn't the ones characterizing Aunn as a dog. They're just echoing what they see in all the fanworks drifting over from the land of the rising sun.

>>19749707
>Zun
Yes, everyone in Touhou is a humanoid girl. That's pretty fucking obvious. Aunn is not a dog owned by Reimu. ZUN never protrayed her like that. In canon, Aunn is a very enthusiastic guardian beast (lion) youkai who was created by Okina in order to spy on shrines. Aunn takes her job of idling by shrines very seriously, which is her nature as a guardian lion. She isn't owned by Reimu and goes wherever she pleases.

>>19749736
WHAT the FUCK did I say about posting images!?

>>19749750
That is a particularly gross depiction of Aunn, dogfags have gone too far.

>>19749758
Did you really just post that from tumblr?
Did you really just post that from one of the dogfag breeding grounds? You little hypocritical lionfucker, you've been leading everyone on this whole time haven't you?

>>19749791
All dogfags are tumblrtards but not all tumblrtards are dogfags.

>>19749795
Every last dogfag image I've been posting came from pixiv.

Over there! Go get the dogfags! C'mon boy, you can do it!

>>19749809
Which is why fanon is shit.

>>19749820
And you do realize that everytime one of the twilight frontier fighting games is released, bits of fanon ascend to canon? Though honestly I think a 4koma which revolves around Aunn being very prideful and lion-like would be quite entertaining, at the current rate of things, it is inconceivable.
If you aren't going to go to the source and fight it there, or better yet, make some fanworks of your own that adhere to canon, there's no point in being so pissy about the whole mess. Either fight the trend in a way that actually matters, or accept the wave of dogginess. Don't just sit there and be mad as you get swept away in the wave.

>>19749851
I'm fairly certain it is the same shitposter who was desperately arguing about the spelling of Nue Houjuu's name in Nue-related threads. Going out of their skin while trying to prove these absolutely meaningless and insignificant points, spewing obscenities at anyone who dares to contradict them... Is this what autism really is like?

Still, it saddens me that this person manages to get so much public attention. The old /jp/ was way more effective at weeding out trolls like him. These days.. They are not coming back...

>>19750016
They're the same as the "don't lewd the fairies" shitposter, and somehow related to the yukari and aya wing shitposting, though I don't think they're solely rsponsible for that. People need to just filter "fanon", "reddit", and "tumblr" and ignore any posts that contain those words. It's just a v/tard/ butthurt at /jp/ for some reason, so they spam a bunch of "/jp/ terms" like secondary and wayq at everyone while talking about tumblr and reddit. They probably push that "put 2hu on another board" thing also, though I think /bant/ or /s4s/ is more behind that.

>>19750072
>and somehow related to the aya wing shitposting
Fuck you, I'm not quite THIS autistic.

>>19750072
>>19750016
>everyone i don't like is the same person
>>19749851
Aunn hasn't acted like a dog at all so far. Fanon is not canon.

>>19752183
That's why it's fanon. People can regard canon and actively choose to go against it if they choose.

>>19752183
What does her acting like a dog or not have to do with anything? She is literally a koma-INU. All her spellcards that reference an animal mention dogs. If you take a photo of her in VD it's tagged as "Wan Wan Photo". Stop shitposting.

>>19752552
That doesn't make it any less retarded.
>>19752593
You haven't really read any of the fucking posts have you? Aunn is a half komainu half shiisaa. A komainu was never meant to be a dog, it was based on a youkai from China called a bó and came to Japan as the koma. Koma was a synonym for lion and a nickname for Korea in ancient Japan. Shiisaa is a direct japnization of the Chinese word shishi, which translates to lion. The inu in Komainu most likely meant guardian, one who sleeps, or one who observes and not dog at all. Sumireko calls Aunn a wanwan because Sumireko is a retarded teenager. She also called Seiran's bullets suppositories, does that mean they are suppositories? No. Aunn has more spellcards that reference the koma and lions than ones that reference dogs. Aditionally, she is based more on a shiisaa (lion) since her deisgn gives her magatama ears and a kariyushi shirt (both from Okinawa, where the shiisaa is from). Aunn's spellcard background is shiisaa and not komainu. ZUN compares Aunn's origins to that of a sphinx (lion). Additionally, Aunn has never once barked, stuck out her tongue, rolled on her belly, or acted like a dog in any way at all in canon. Take your non-canon bullshit back to Plebbit.

>>19752987
You dense motherfucker. Suwako isn't a god of frogs. But she likes them, so shes runs with a frog motif. Is it so unreasonable that maybe Aunn just goes with a dog characterization because she feels like it, regardless of what she is? And more than that, it doesn't matter if Aunn is a lion, a dog, a shiisaa or a komainu. Aunn Komano is Aunn Komano. And this is an Aunn appreciation thread.

SO FUCKING POST IMAGES OF BEST GUARD WITH YOUR SHITPOSTING DAMMIT.

>>19753271
>is it unreasonable that aunn goes with a dog characterization
Yes because she has never once acted like a dog in canon and it she has more lion theming than dog theming, baka.
>aunn is aunn
Yes and aunn is a guard lion who does not like a dog.
>shitposting
Facts are not shitposts.

Aunn can't be a lion. Felines don't guard your stuff.

>>19753480
Aunn is literally based on a guard lion you dope.

Jesus christ it's almost like I walked into an Undertale thread. Shisaa, komainu, whatever Aunn is, is entirely seperate from dogs and lions. It's like arguing over whether a mule is a donkey or a horse, when it's obviously neither. On that note, all of you are jackasses.

>>19753837
Shiisaa is literally Japanese (Okinawan) for lion and the komainu came from a word for lion (koma) that was originally an unrelated horned Chinese legendary beast using the same character called a bó.

>>19753723
Get a lion to guard your home. You can't. Aunn doesn't act like a lion. She acts like a guard dog.

>>19753934
Are you fucking retarded? The lion guardian youkai komainu and shiisaa never even existed. They were stone statues meant to represent a lion. Kill yourself. Aunn is not based on a guard dog and does not act like a guard dog. She is based on a komainu and a shiisa, both statues. Guard lion youkai that never existed because THEY'RE FANTASTIC BEASTS.

>>19753913
And a mule comes from both a donkey and a horse. It still can't be classified as either one of those. Like I said, this shit is as bad as certain undertale threads.

>>19753961
>undertale
Go back to /v/. And komainu and shiisa may be mythical youkai, but they are based on lions and not dogs. If you read the thread you would know this.

>>19753837
The cuteposters aren't jackasses, just the troll and the idiots feeding him.

>>19753961
ah, and now you're humoring him too, good job, jackass

>>19754000
>>19754024
>cherrydog
Aunn is not a dog as explained by the variously historically backed analysis posts I made. Since when were facts shitposts? Just because they hurt your feefees and headcanon? Pathetic.

>>19753982
>>19754066
And you need to go back to the books. In Japan, the left of a komainu pair is called a Shishi, which means stone lion. The right one is called a komainu. And while they are related to shiisaa, komainu were brought to japan via Korea, and are generally regarded as being seperate from shiisaa. While Aunn references komainu a lot, she has no direct connections to shiisaa. As she simultaneously consists of both parts of a komainu pair, she can be considered a lion and a dog in the same way a mule can be considered to be a horse and a donkey. A mix of both, but existing as neither one.

And yes I do realize i'm becoming one of the jackasses, but this particular autist has his lore so messed up that I don't give a damn.

>>19754119
Even if it's completely separate from a dog, you can't really stop artists from taking artistic license with her, now can you? If I had a huge flipout every time someone had opinions that aren't like mine, i would have had an actual aneurysm by now.

>>19754146
... On second thought, nevermind. Ya'll are beyond hope. I think I'll just join the cuteposters instead.

>>19754119
That's the point, to be so wrong and yet so adamant about it that you feel like trying to correct his dumbass, but in the end all you do is stoop to his level and shit up the thread, pointlessly arguing with a troll. Give up, and let barking dogs fall back to sleep.

>>19754119
You need to go back to the books, retard. ZUN flat out states that Aunn is part shiisaa in her very own profile. The shiisaa is an Okinawan lion statue. Aunn is wearing a kariyushi shirt and geta sandals (stereotypical Okinawan clothes). She also has magatama as ears, magatama were most heavily used in the Ryukyu region, where Okinawa is located. Additionally, Aunn's spell card background is made up of a traditional Okinawan print that depicts shishi, not komainu. The komainu came from the word koma, which meant lion in ancient Japanese. The inu part may or may not have meant dog, and in depth analysis can be found in this thread if you scroll up a bit. ZUN even connects Aunn to an Egyptian sphinx, which were lion statues. Don't claim shit when you don't have half of any idea what you're talking about. Aunn has never acted like a dog in canon and is not based on a dog, but two different youkai who were both derived from lion depictions.
>>19754146
>>19754173
Interesting discussions > image dump.
>>19754194
Not a dog, Aunn has never barked. "Correct" me? You dogtards were the wrong ones all along, I was correcting each and every one of you retards. FACTS ARE NOT SHITPOSTS.

>>19754173
>>19754194
>>19754194
>>19754173
I can get behind this. But I'm still going to keep dogposting just to piss lionfag off.

>>19754266
Lol fuckin need to actually post the image don't I.

>>19754266
Your dog headcanon will never be true.

>>19754276
Aunn has never acted like a dog, your not-canon head-canon is shit.

>>19754218
>Interesting discussions > image dump.
Your shit hasn't been interesting for a few days at this point, so have one more doggo on the house.

>>19754318
How could you not love historical investigation? Oh, right, because dogfags are retards with a 2 second attention span. Funny you post that artist considering they have are one of the only ones who depcits Aunn more canonically, feline-like and resembling a lion with a great curly mane.

I can't shake the idea that her hair would be kinda stone-like. Not rigid per-say, but maybe a bit difficult to cut and always cool to the touch.

>>19754266
dogposting fine by me as long as you're not actually responding to the fool
>>19754318
don't give him (you)s, those are his life blood, his energy. just dogpost, ignore, and laugh at him if you so desire

stop fucking humoring this retard by trying to "argue" with him and "prove him wrong" when all he's going to do to posts like >>19754119
is plug his ears and cry and respond to every post in the thread trying to derail it crying about "fanon". he'd get along great with moralfag who does the same fucking shit and surprise, is another crossboarder. this is why we can't even discuss shit like the manga anymore. it's very obvious he's an angry /v/ or /vg/ faggot who blew in during the whole translation debacle by how much he cries about other websites in all of his posts. that and the fact that aunn threads never had this kind of issue ever since HSiFS was released up until now makes him very obvious.

just don't fucking respond. post aunn pics and ignore him.

>>19754361
Aunn does not wan. She goes a~un or gao.
>>19754376
Aunn is not a dog. That is all just héadcanon fánon bullshit. Every post and art depicting her as a dog is not canønically correct. I will not waste my time replying to you guys from R*ddit and T*mblr any longer unless someone else replies back to me seriously. All doggoshit is R*ddiT*mblr shitposting.
>>19754420
I suppose posting evidence about the komainu's and shiisa's origin makes me a shitposter and a crossboarder right? It is you plugging your ears and crying, who cannot accept fact or evidence. The way you seem triggered by me naming those sites where doggoshit is more popular just proves that fags like you are, in fact, from there.

>>19754318
Not into animals, but that doggo has a nice butt.

>>19754376
Right, sorry. I couldn't resist poking the crap a bit more.

Ah fuck me, I got the cursor in the picture.

>>19754146
only a touhou newfaggot or /v/tard would cry so much about Japanese artists doing what they want with a character

>>19754485
the cursor was good because it was giving aunn a headpat

Fuck that shitters facts. Aunn and Kyouko are cute doggos and nothing will change that! Awoooo! Wanwan!

>>19754512
Post more Aunn with the dogs

>>19754560
borkers unite against facists

>>19754560
Does this count

>>19754560
Awooo! Impeach!

>>19754599
Sure, Chamaji's Aunn is a gift to the world

>>19754512
>>19754626
>I will not waste my time replying to you guys from R*ddit and T*mblr any longer
>proceeds to immediately do so
Keep seething

Let's continue triggering that lionfag. Aunn is a beautiful doggie! Awoo! Borkity borkity abolish private property.

>>19754560

>>19754728
Did Kyouko just become Reimu's sugardaddy.

>>19754728
Kyouko is a PIMP

>>19749416
>Aunn has more lion themed spell cards than dog theme ones.
Aunn has an even split, you dumb fuck. It's 1/3 dog, 1/3 lion, 1/3 both.

>>19755770
This was a serious reply?
Okay let's break it down.
>Dog Sign "Stray Dog's Walk"
+1 dog
>Hound Sign "Mountain Hound's Walk"
+2 dog
>Spinning Top "Komainu Spin"
+1 lion
>Spinning Top "Curl Up And Die"
+2 lion
>Koma Sign "Solitary A-Um Breath"
+3 lion
>Spinning Top "Komainu Slalom Spin"
+4 lion
>Spinning Top "A-Um Flash"
+5 lion
>Dream Dog "101 Stray Dogs"
+3 dog

5 lion spells
3 dog spells
Hmmm

仔犬 a cute

>>19755821
That really awoo'd my puppers

>>19762085
Aunn is NOT a dog. She's a BEAUTIFUL dog.

>>19762085
>>19762202
awoofity barkity impeach trumpity

>>19754512
>>19754626
awful drawings

>>19762896
Please be nice to the tumblerinas

>>19755821
Komainu spin and Komainu slalom spin both have "inu" and thus count as dog as well, +5 dog, +5 lion, as you would expect from a half dog half lion girl.

>>19763940
stop fucking responding to him you imbicile.

>>19764791
He already gave up, though
Good

>>19764791
Don't tell me what to do, mom. Besides, I wasn't planning on feeding him if he responded further.

Reimu's such a good pet owner letting her dog cool off in the pool with her. Wet dog smells awful though.

>>19763940
You really don't fucking know the etmyology of inu in komainu, do you? It's been explained countless times in this and the past 2 or 3 Aunn threads. Stop being a retard a fucking read. Aunn does not act like a dog at all and still takes more elements from the shiisaa and koma.

Imagine how nice it must be to comb your fingers through Aunn's long, curly hair and to gently caress the horn on her head. You would never know this simple pleasure unless you were Reimu.

>>19768638
imagine thinking reimu owns aunn

>>19768690
All girls are someone else's daughter, after all.

>>19768514
>You really don't fucking know the etmyology of inu in komainu, do you?
Your explanation was that "nobody knows where the inu came from", which is an explanation no more convincing and in fact far less convincing than the notion that it might have something to do with the definition of the word inu.

Canine piss

>>19766653
Why is her hair green but her tail black?

>>19769058
Sometimes, a dog's fur isn't uniform all over its body.

>>19769058
Somtimes lions have different colored manes from their body.

>>19768638
>caress the horn
e-ecchi