/jp/ - Otaku Culture

...Really? Do you...not understand the loli appeal?

What would be worse? Eating that popsicle knowing that you will only taste it once or saving it knowing it will eventually melt?

>>1952657

Lolis are lolis, but it's not even a commercial project. And I'm pretty sure that Touhou wasn't the only one doujin danmaku series at that time.

>>1952671

[X] Eat Popsicle, buy more

Zun encourages fan work.

>not even a commercial project
bonus for not being commercial

Actually, it got popular for it's characters and "story".

>>1952682
It was better, gameplay wise and story wise, than most other danmaku shooters at the time, kid.

>>1952688
But the rest are just popsicles. This one had a Cirno straddled on top of it.

>>1952694

Eat Ice Fairy
Fuck Popsicle
Sell stick

>>1952693
>kid

I giggled.

>>1952691
or rather lack of one and ZUN's openness to fan interpretation.

>>1952751
For a shmup, it has more story than the average. (and an own universe.

>>1952682
>not even a commercial project.
That's actually one of it's draw points. Everyone likes it when normal people do stuff like this.

>>1952682
>not even a commercial project
That's actually one of it's strong points. Everyone like it when amateurs do something like this.

>>1952777
>ZUN
>amateurs

>>1952816
>I don't know what amateur means.

>>1952822
>I don't know what amateur means.

>>1952827
1. a person who engages in a study, sport, or other activity for pleasure rather than for financial benefit or professional reasons. Compare professional.
3. a person inexperienced or unskilled in a particular activity: Hunting lions is not for amateurs.

>>1952861
ZUN is a professional. He uses his programming skills for a living.

>>1952878
>>3. a person inexperienced or unskilled in a particular activity: Hunting lions is not for amateurs.
>>inexperienced or unskilled
>>unskilled

>>1952861

Just for your informations, he has worked for Taito in the past, long enough to contribute to the development of at least five games. Amateur my foot.

>>1952894
The fact that he only worked on five games and isn't employed by them anymore should be an indication that he is, in fact, an amateur.

I'm hoping this line will put an end to all your bitching. Hopefully.
>Pursuing amateur activities to the same standards as professionals is sometimes referred to as professional amateurism.

The fact that almost any fanart is better then the real art

>professional amateurism.
oh shit

>>1952946

TH12 title?

>>1952971

>>1952971
lol

>>1952946

Sounds better than Sub-cranial Aneurysm.

>>1952983

Or Subterranean Animalism.

Amateur means hobbyist. You can be both amateur (in that you're doing something primarily for the sake of doing it) and professional (in that it's your primary source of income) at the same time.

Of course Touhou was never a professional project. It doesn't mean ZUN himself isn't.

>>1953011
So basically he's a professional amateur then, right?...

Honestly? IOSYS and Nico played a huge role in the second Touhou boom. This was around when Mountain of Faith first came out.

The first boom is obviously the start of the Windows games, although it didn't really gather steam until circa PCB.

good question op

>>1952636
1). Touhou is not very popular. If Touhou even managed to sell 500,000 units ZUN would be masturbating on a pile of yen (which is apparently not the case seeing how he still does hard labor for Taito, an unknown retro company). Taito probably pays him chips and peanuts for doing the Mexican work (hence te reason why he has the body of an Ethiopian). But even if it managed to sell 500,000 units that's not very popular in comparison to other low level projects like Donkey Kong that went on to sell several million units.
2). Just because Touhou has a lot of fanart and remixes does not make it popular. What you interpret as popular would be seen as unpopular by many. Again, if Touhou was popular ZUN would be rich right now.

Continued below:

>>1957056
3). Fans are not attracted to the games themselves. Instead they are attracted to the doujin scene that follows Touhou. If ZUN knew how to draw, people wouldn't feel the need to create thousands of fanart. If ZUN knew how to compose, there wouldn't be hundreds of remixes. Personally, I'm not a fan of Touhou myself, yet I've drawn and created a few flashes of the Touhou characters. The day ZUN learns how to tell a plot, noone will make doujins of it. It's the total lack of character plots that inspires the fans to give the poor starving Touhous a plot. Want to know why you don't see Metal Gear fanfiction? I'll let you answer this yourself. Hint: *Metal Gear has a well developed plot.* Did you ever wonder why noone has attempted to surpass ZUN's programming skills? We've seen hundreds of fanfiction, spinoffs, art, and remixes, but we've never seen a Touhou doujin project that has surpassed the danmaku itself. ZUN is nothing more than a programmer. The man is good at bullet algorithms. The fans either a) our discourage from creating a danmaku because they know they wont be able to surpass ZUN or b) they feel no need to create a danmaku because Touhou is a very good danmaku. If it's not broke don't fix it. That'd be like hundreds of thousands of people writing plots for Metal Gear. Something like that would never happen because Metal Gear has a well established plot.

>>1957056

>Taito
>an unknown retro company

>>1957056
>>1957057

>>1957057
way to pick a constantly retconing convoluted example of plot. But I agree, most of the doujin works are driven by the subpar skills of ZUN as a writer and artist.
But one thing is for sure, I like his compositions. The remixes only build upon it, but the core is video game music gold. Or so I think, lol personal opinions.

We should throw ZUN a party or something, thanking him for starting something good, and give him some presents and money.

>>1957062
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Taito_games
In after B minus games that cant even manage to make the greatest hits collection. Oops, did I just call these casual gamer games, B minus. I meant D minus. vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

>>1957057
>If ZUN knew how to compose
Music sounds fine to me

>Something like that would never happen because Metal Gear has a well established plot.

Wait, what?

>>1957074
The man lacks the ability to compose modern music. But like you said, music is too subjective to state your opinion about it. But ask yourself a question, have you ever heard bad music in a retro game? Metroid, Castlevania, Megaman, Mario, Sonic, Final Fantasy, etc.... Each of the aforementioned games (in my opinion) has much better music than ZUN's repetitive music.

>>1957101
>have you ever heard bad music in a retro game

Yes. Also Robotech Guy thread.

>>1957101
>modern music
>retro game
Wait what?

>>1957108
>Yes.
Name some.

>Robotech Guy thread
Wat?

>>1957117
Why should I? The hell if I remember a specific title, but only because you named a few titles that have good music doesn't mean all retro games have good music.

>>1957078
>v

>>1957101
But that's just like, your opinion man.

>>1957074
>But I agree, most of the doujin works are driven by the subpar skills of ZUN as a writer
ZUN is no different from any other greedy Japanese businessmen. I'm willing to bet ZUN knows how to draw but draws crappy on purpose just to inspire more fans. He's been drawing for decades, yet his art work is arguably getting worse.

Look guys, it's Chiruno XD!

I like ZUN's music :(

Your argument is flawed. Beethoven and Mozart get remixed/changed all the time, and they're pretty damned good composers. Popular books, (such as harry potter), are fanficced to oblivion. Look at the Final Fantasy 7 fanbase: It actually has a plot, and there's still a billion fucking fanfics for it.

>>1957125
I named 6, yet you can't even name one. wvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

>>1957159
>wv

Here's a tip:
ZUN>FANON

In this thread: people new to /jp/, and the otaku culture in general, fail to spell "wwwwwwwwwwwwwww"

>>1957167
And I mean story, art and music wise. Plus his bullet patterns look pretty.

>>1957159
It's not that hard, look for some barely known retro game, chances are its music sucks. Don't tell me you have never played a game with an annoying and/or repetitive BGM.

>>1957175
It's trolling.
And I am the sage of counter troll.

>>1957188
They call me >TERK<!

>>1957056
>>1957057
Around a third of all comiket material is touhou related. If you don't think it's big, you're blind.

>>1957192
Just so you don't missunderstand, when I say "they" (<-Those are Quotation marks to indicate use–mention distinction) I mean me①

>>1957207
And the i is for anything it stands for in iPhone. Basically you die when I am stolen.

>>1957157
>I like ZUN's music :(
>:(
XD!

>Your argument is flawed. Beethoven and Mozart get remixed/changed all the time, and they're pretty damned good composers.
That's only because they are that good that they deserve to be remixed.

>Popular books, (such as harry potter), are fanficced to oblivion. Look at the Final Fantasy 7 fanbase: It actually has a plot, and there's still a billion fucking fanfics for it.
>Harry Potter
>Final Fantasy

Way to defeat your own integrity by invoking the names of those two gaiafag, /y/fangirl, and homolust ridden franchises.

But I'll explain why they have a lot of fanfiction. When your franchise is as popular as the aforementioned things, you're going to have at least some fanfiction. Final Fantasy 10 alone almost sold 7 million units in its first 3 years. And Harry Potter has out sold the bible. Let me ask you a question, which one has more fanart, Touhou or Naruto?

If you've lurked danbooru, futaba, and 4chan you'd assume Touhou had more fanart. Danbooru alone has 80,000 thousand+ pictures of Touhou. But to my surprise, a quick search for Naruto on deviantart returns over 1.3 million pictures in the USA alone.

>>1957056
>ZUN making profit.
He doesn't care. He just pumps out whatever he feels like, including SSiB.

>>1957057
>If ZUN knew how to compose, there wouldn't be hundreds of remixes.
However, outright bad composers don't have their stuff remixed at all. The music that gets released has to at least appealing to get people's attention (Wily Stage 1, MM2).

>Did you ever wonder why noone has attempted to surpass ZUN's programming skills?
See: Concealed the Conclusion (or other Danmakufu stuff).

>>1957101
Based on my experience:
(Megaman, Mario, Sonic, Final Fantasy, Kirby)
I still like ZUN's music. But then again, I tend to like video game music in general, and whatever ZUN pumps out falls under that. The stuff serves a nice basis for other stuff to be built upon.

>>1957228
>>1957225
Your trolling only makes my sage harder! (<-Notice the exclamation mark for emphasis①①①)

>>1957250
Nah, I'll resort to my last weapon, the age.

>>1957260
And I'll be the bane of all grammar. So when I was rich I'll buy a gaming mashine.

>>1957250
Reported for abusing sage.

Moot is going to HAVE A KITTEN WHEN HE SEES THIS!

It's people like you who push moot into creating a different sage function.

>I don't agree with your opinion so sage sage sage sage.
What are you like 12 or something.

>>1957250
what are you doing

sage doesn't work here, go back to your *chan.

>>1957269
He'll be "overjoy" when he sees that I converted to the true belief of age and burn your infidel sageing ass in hell.

>>1957274
I ruin bad discussions here, nothing to make a fuzz about buddy :/

>>1957269
So what does sage do now?

>>1957281
>:/
SAAAAAGEEEEE.

>>1957281
Respectful disagreement equal bad conversation? Nice logic, bro.

Proof that Touhoufags are shitty posters. I've seen more mature users on animesuki and gamefaqs. I'm going back to /m/.

>>1957056
copypasta
1. Unlike Nintendo, ZUN doesn't advertise his products. Also, circulation is to be limited.
>Donkey Kong
>low level
There is a fly in your pasta

2. Artists create Touhou doujin products because Touhou is already popular around the world. Doujin artists draw Touhou comics because they sell, rather than parody other series they actually like. Touhou doujin is a perfect stepping stone for upcoming mangaka.
>>1957057
ignored

This is totally going to be an essay topic in media courses in the 2100's

>>1957329
Maybe the reason why it doesn't sell is because it's a generic shoot em up.

Generic shoot em up #33565:
Hi there boys and girls. You've played space invaders as a child, but now we have a new button masher. This time with little girls and semi catchy music.

Hell, if Touhou even had one ounce of market value, some company would have made a deal with ZUN to ship it overseas. Your argument about how Touhou is popular fails because ZUN is poor. The genre in and of itself isn't very popular. The danmaku and/or shoot em up genre was one of the few genres that wasn't able to make it into the next generation market. Apparently, it's not good enough. Shiggy managed to create a few genres that are still popular even till today. Even Kojima managed to turn a small budgeted project into a multi-million dollar franchise. Maybe if ZUN could innovate and create something new in his life, he might get rich one day. Both ZUN and Touhou is popular in the sense that people have heard about it. But the only problem with that is that noone cares about it. Seeing a quick flash, or reading about something != sells. People apparently don't like what ZUN is selling. In Japan, ZUN has the name recognition, but lacks the intrigue. If I had his name recognition I'd create a unique game that would sell millions. Why ZUN keeps popping out the same generic danmakus every year is beyond me. But then again, everything ZUN does is generic (even his storytelling). Miko, witches, vampires, bunny girls, cat girls, fairies, and demons? Each of the aforementioned things are so generic that they have their own categories. 20$ bets that the next Touhou character will be a maid and/or dog girl.

>>1957296
>/m/
And nothing of value was lost.

Anybody who actually thinks Touhou isn't insanely popular hasn't been to comiket.

People are mixing up Touhou the genre with Touhou the original games.

ZUN doesn't really care about making money obviously. As many people point out he could have made millions by now if he wanted to. A lot of you seem to think that makes him stupid, but I'd say it just means he cares about doing what he loves (making shooting games) more than making a quick buck. Although I can't say I wouldn't sell out if I was in his position.

As for Touhou the genre, it is incredibly popular, yes. Like a lot of other people said, I think it has to do with Touhou being very easy to expand on. Catchy but simple music, lots of minimally developed characters, and a world with at least a little bit of just about every fetish/niche in the 2D fandom.

>>1957057
>If ZUN knew how to compose, there wouldn't be hundreds of remixes.
>The day ZUN learns how to tell a plot, noone will make doujins of it.

Try harder.

>>1957409
>Maybe the reason why it doesn't sell is because it's a generic shoot em up.
What are you smoking? Touhou sells like hotcakes.

>But the only problem with that is that noone cares about it
I think you're forgetting the thousands of doujin circles and millions of people who buy or pirate their products.

>People apparently don't like what ZUN is selling.
People who don't go to Comiket or Reitaisai or preorder, have little chance to get any of his games because ZUN drastically limits the circulation of Touhou games. He doesn't sell his games outside the doujin convention in which they are released.

>Why ZUN keeps popping out the same generic danmakus every year is beyond me.
ZUN likes danmaku. He will continue to program what he likes until he dies if you like it or not.

>But then again, everything ZUN does is generic (even his storytelling). Miko, witches, vampires, bunny girls, cat girls, fairies, and demons?
20$ bets that you can't find another shrine maiden like Reimu.

>>1957409
>semi catchy music

>>1957458
stop replying to old copypasta

>>1957473
Why are there even enough faggots who save those in the first place?

>>1957451
>A lot of you seem to think that makes him stupid, but I'd say it just means he cares about doing what he loves (making shooting games) more than making a quick buck.
Yeah, this is the same attention-whore ZUN that draws crappy on purpose just to not discourage potential followers. This is also the same ZUN who got mad at a doujin circle that tried to create a Touhou animu. ZUN is just an attention whore. He knows if he draws something good it would scare away thousands of artist. He knows if someone gave the Touhou characters a plot, noone would create doujins (hence the reason why he was afraid of the unofficial Touhou animu project).

Mark my words, the day they create an official Touhou animu the entire doujin circle will die. A Touhou animu would give the characters a plot and personality. All of the doujins circle fags would feel butthurt if they couldn't give their Touhous their own unique plot/personality.

tl;dr Touhou equals Unix. If Microsoft one day purchased the rights to Unix, Linux, Ubuntu, etc... Unix and the GNU communities would meet a quick and decisive death.

>>1957498
>tl;dr Touhou equals Unix

Except
a) touhou doesn't suck and
b) touhou isn't communism

>>1957473
>>1957485
Nice try, but it's not copypasta bro.

WHY IS THIS THREAD STILL HERE OH GOD

ZUN is a master troll of epic proportions

>>1957498
>Yeah, this is the same attention-whore ZUN that draws crappy on purpose just to not discourage potential followers.

This is one of the worst conspiracy theories ever. Even if ZUN could draw well, people would still draw doujins.

>A Touhou animu would give the characters a plot and personality

They already have that.

Touhou doesn't sell? News to me. We don't have the exact figures (LOL doujin), but it always seems to occupy the best-selling doujin titles lists for months. And the best-selling doujin titles have a circulation counted in the hundreds of thousands of copies.

Remember that 30.000+ people coming to Reitaisai for their SWR premiere? Yeah. Now go figure.

C75. Half Touhou this year...

>>1957530
Nice sage, bro.

>>1957530
Front page of /jp/. Half Touhou right now.

>>1957534
You bumped all threads just so you can write this, yes?

>>1957458
>20$ bets that you can't find another shrine maiden like Reimu.
>Lazy
>Mary Sue
>Miko
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=1128

Reimu is just another generic miko. I long for the day when we'll get a female lead that's not a Mary Sue.

>>1957537
Actually, I'm pretty sure that every page of /jp/ is half Touhou at all times. How long have you been here?

>>1957541
>Mary Sue

Obvious troll is obvious.

>>1957541
>the five young priestesses must undergo months of training to master their abilities.

>Reimu
>training
>must
oh lawd.
better luck next time.

>>1957545
Since before /jp/ was created. The Touhou percentage decreases every time people talk about vn, like the recent umineko threads.

>>1957541
I long for the day when people learn what Mary Sue actually means.

Apparently, it's still far away.

>>1957458
>I think you're forgetting the thousands of doujin circles and millions of people who buy or pirate their products.

I like touhou and all, but I think it's really out there to say millions of people, or thousands of doujin circles. Just seems like a gross exaggeration.

Also the same for the comment on reimu, any personality and style that might set her apart from any other shrine maiden is purely fan based opinions, art and fic. I like her just fine because of all that but you implying she's pure originality is silly.

>>1957528
>30.000+ people coming to Reitaisai
>30,000
Spoilers: Even if everybody who went to Reitaisai purchased a copy of Touhou, it still wouldn't be popular by any stretch of the imagination. But clearly this isn't the case: x*(3*10000) would make ZUN rich. When clearly he's not rich. Artist, CG artist, animators, and programmers in Japan get paid chips and peanuts in comparison to the West. If ZUN had any ounce of money he wouldn't be working for a bankrupted company like Taito.

Why is it that ZUN has never managed to get hired at a better video game company like Konami or Sega? I guess his reputation as a programmer is not as good as I thought it was.

Why can't I kill this topic, so ronery man ;_;

>>1957562
Cool story, bro.

>>1957498
>that draws crappy on purpose just to not discourage potential followers.

wha...

>He knows if he draws something good it would scare away thousands of artist.

what the shit

>He knows if someone gave the Touhou characters a plot, noone would create doujins (hence the reason why he was afraid of the unofficial Touhou animu project).

what the SHIT IS THIS

none of this makes any sense

>>1957498
>>1957498

>>Mark my words, the day they create an official Touhou animu the entire doujin circle will die.

Touhou wouldn't fit as an animu anyways.

>>1957498
>>1957498

>>Mark my words, the day they create an official Touhou animu the entire doujin circle will die.

Touhou wouldn't fit as an animu anyways.

>>1957562
>When clearly he's not rich.

How do you know that? I was under the impression that he hasn't told much about himself.

In during blatant trolling.

Seriously guys, this thread is bad and you should feel bad for falling for such a obvious troll.

>x*(3*10000) would make ZUN rich. When clearly he's not rich.

You... YOU DOUBLE ASSUMPTION

>>1957588
Trolls trolling trolls trolling trolls.

>>1957534
>>1957552
>>1957545
>Front page of /jp/. Half Touhou right now.
Are you implying that just because Touhou is popular on /jp/ it's popular?

Everyone on 4chan could like Touhou and it still wouldn't be popular. 4chan only has 50 to 70 thousand users. When Code Geass aired on the American midnight program "Adult Swim." It only managed to get around 300,000 ratings. Code Geass eventually got kicked down to a lesser timeslot because of low ratings. Again, what you interpret as popular is considered unpopular by many. If ZUN could sell 100,000 units he'd have enough money to hire people.

He's not rich because he spends all his money on beer. We've been through this.

>>1957598
But Code Geass is shit and fabulous.

To idiots/trolls like >>1957598

The people in this thread are obviously talking about Touhou being popular within the context of the otaku community. I'm sure a lot of popular shows on American television right now aren't popular if you include the millions of starving niggers in Africa who've never seen a TV in their lives, and I'm sure Elvis and the Beatles aren't popular if you include the millions of alien races that undoubtedly exist light years away from here and know nothing of planet Earth.

Get out with your retardation and dumbfuckery.

>>1957598
>If ZUN could sell 100,000 units he'd have enough money to hire people

He probably makes more money by making the games himself. Let's assume that he would hire someone who draws better than him. How much more would Touhou sell then?

>>1957607
>Bringing aliens into an argument about touhou popularity

lol.

>>1957562
>When clearly he's not rich.

Oh? Clearly? You've seen his income statement, or something?

>>1957611
>Let's assume that he would hire someone who draws better than him.

Didn't he do that in the past already?

>>x*(3*10000) would make ZUN rich. When clearly he's not rich.
ZUN wrote about opening a bar. You need money to do that,
and stop writing about Touhou sales. People can't buy more because ZUN doesn't have more games printed. Instead, you should count the number of people who have or had Touhou game on their HDD, but that's impossible to count.

>>1957561
There are at least a million people on earth who have either bought, pirated or seen/watched/read on the internet, Touhou doujin products that are sold at Comiket.

>>1957598
>Are you implying that just because Touhou is popular on /jp/ it's popular?

No, you retard.

>>1957574
Here let me explain it to you slowly so that even you can understand.

Touhou fans create original plot and stories for Touhou because the Touhou characters lack a plot. Cirno for example rarely talks in some of the Touhou games, but even when she does talk, it doesn't fit her immature/tomboyish personality that the fans gave her.

If the ZUN Cirno had a better plot, there wouldn't be any fanfiction of Cirno. Some of the times ZUN doesn't even give the characters personalities.

Cirno description:
>(9) Baka, Cirno enjoys freezing frogs.

Typical Touhoufan's response the the above description of Cirno:

>Lol, ZUN said Cirno is a baka XD! What an AMAZING philosophical plot. Now I'm going to go and make a story about her childish personality lol!!!1

>>1957552
By "here", I meant /jp/.

>>1957562
>If ZUN had any ounce of money he wouldn't be working for a bankrupted company like Taito.
>Why is it that ZUN has never managed to get hired at a better video game company like Konami or Sega? I guess his reputation as a programmer is not as good as I thought it was.

Worker's loyalty? In my Japan?
Not every place is like US where everybody just looks out for numero uno and sells their own mother if there's a dime to be made of it.

>>1957627
Yeah, the US should totally adopt Japanese business practices.

Oh wait, they already did. Minus the blatant racism.

Delete /v/, delete /b/, delete /r9k/, ban all the posters

This thread is the only evidence you need.

>>1957633

They did? So staying in the same company all your life no matter what anybody offers you is the norm in States? Pull another one.

>>1957607
>The people in this thread are obviously talking about Touhou being popular within the context of the otaku community.
>otaku community
You're an idiot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGzdwoSEX2k
>14,162,944 views
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yn71hIsm0U8
>2,504,164

http://www.google.com/trends?q=touhou%2C+gundam

>>1957638
That's not the norm in Japan either. Millions of working class Japanese people do temporary jobs. Oh, and I'll take a few years at an American business over the years of 60 hour weeks as a Japanese salaryman.

>Pull another one

Ohh, so you're English. That makes sense. Everyone else fucking hates you so you have to pick on the only other country in the same situation.

>>1957640
http://www.google.com/trends?q=+%E6%9D%B1%E6%96%B9%2C+%E3%82%AC%E3%83%B3%E3%83%80%E3%83%A0

Why hello there.

>>1957640

>comparing a leading commercial anime title to a doujin game sold at conventions.

doh ho ho ho.

>>1957640
>Delete /v/, delete /b/, delete /r9k/, ban all the posters

>>1957640
>comparing Gundam with Touhou

Why would you do that? What are you trying to prove?

HEY GUYS LOOK AT ME I'M POST NUMBER >>1957640 AND I'M A RETARD DUR HUR HUR

>>1957653
I do believe you just won at /jp/.

>>1957640
>posting a "youtube" video about dragonball and naruto as an example of otaku culture.

>>1957654
I was waiting for this.

What about type-moon? They started out as a small group now they're a fairly successful business in Japan. Why cant ZUN managed to do the same?

P.S. The moron I was replying to mentioned the "otaku comunity." Last time I checked, Naruto, Gundam, and Final Fantasy is part of the otaku community. I gave him just enough rope to hang himself.

ZUN is only good at being a failure. Get over it.

>>1957653 I don't know that Touhou translates to east in Japan.

>>1957675
Naruto is a kid's cartoon, so no.

Also, Touhou is just as if not more popular than Tsukihime.

Also, why am I replying to an obvious troll anyway?

>>1957640

>>1957675
T-M are money whores that's why they went commercial, do you really think that ZUN can't go commercial? How cute. At any rate, the amount of circles doing touhou is almost the double of circles doing T-M these days, that should be a good indicator of popularity. Nice try, troll.

>>1957653
>>1957661
>>1957662
Okay... are you honestly this retarded or are you just pretending to be?

>>1957681
I don't notice those giant Touhou spikes in the chart every Comiket or Reitaisai, surely they google search for "East".

>>This thread

>>1957693
You're an idiot.

Google 東方 yourself, observe results.

>>1957681
http://www.google.com/trends?q=+%E6%9D%B1%E6%96%B9%2C++%E5%8D%97%E6%96%B9%2C+%E8%A5%BF%E6%96%B9%2C++
%E5%8C%97%E6%96%B9&geo=JP

Nice try.

>>1957695
see
>>1957693

Gundam is a multi-billion dollar franchise in Japan. If Touhou didn't translate into a direction, it would be an ant in comparison to even the most unpopular Gundams.

>>1957698
touhoutouhoutouhoutouhou

>>1957562 If ZUN had any ounce of money he wouldn't be working for a bankrupted company like Taito.
>Why is it that ZUN has never managed to get hired at a better video game company like Konami or Sega?
Fuck you, Taito is an awesome game company.

>>1957702
Japan is the land of the East. Eastern business, eastern culture, and eastern history turns up much more searches than any other direction.

http://images.google.com/images?ndsp=20&um=1&hl=en&q=%E6%9D%B1%E6%96%B9&start=240&am
p;sa=N

>>1957703

See >>1957702

If touhou wasn't a game, the search level would be the same as for "southern", "western" and "northern".

Somehow, it's hundreds times higher.

>>1957706
Wow, google has really changed. Last time I tried that I couldn't find one picture of Touhou.

>>1957682
I don't think TM is THAT popular anymore.

>>1957708
>Page 13

Hahahaha.

>>1957708
I see you had to click through 13 pages of nothing but Touhou to find one unrelated image. That's like admitting you were wrong, as far as I'm concerned.

>>1957707
Didn't ZUN himself allow Reimu to appear in a couple of their games too?

>>1957703
see
>>1957702

"Touhou" is more like "Eastern Region" not just "east."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh0iQfRSq9w

Touhoufags think Touhou is 1/100000th as popular as Gundam. wwvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

>>1957640
Why isn't 東方 in the chart?

If you're going to post charts about touhou and "otaku culture", I think this repost is relevant.
(for the ones who can't read the titles http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/show/298972/))

>>1957730
You are the only one trying to compare it to Gundam though.

>>1957730
>2006
>Views: 145,041
Wow

>>1957730
The day ZUN says "yes" to make it a marketable franchise, it;s the day it will dwarf Gundam.

And Gundam is VERY popular, although not as good as people make it seem to be.

>>1957730
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yiCUkk_P4E&feature=related

>>1957732
http://browse.deviantart.com/?qh=&section=&q=naruto
910516 submitted.

Why is sister princess faggotry so long lived? Isn't it generic moe crap, and quite old to boot?

Touhou is to Otaku what Open Source and Free Software are to Nerds

>>1957750
DON'T YOU DARE FUCKING INSULT SISTER PRINCESS

IT IS GORGEOUS

>>1957760
0.04, huh. Guess touhou is still pretty much "underground" here.

>>1957776
Only because western publishers aren't able to buy it, dumb it down and market it to 12 year olds.

>>1957739
>The day ZUN says "yes" to make it a marketable franchise, it;s the day it will dwarf Gundam.

Not really, nothing ZUN could do would allow Touhou to surpass Gundam in popularity. Gundam is the type of franchise that cant be surpassed so easily. Multiply Touhou's popularity by 20 and it still wouldn't be able to approach Gundam.

>As of 21 January 2008, the Gundam franchise is a 50 billion yen trademark.
Hell, even games like Final Fantasy and Metal Gear that sell 5 million+ copies would have a hard time beating Gundam in popularity. Zeta Gundam alone had an average viewership of 6.6% . Making it one of the most watched 50 episode show in animu history. Everybody in Japan including the Prime Minister knows about Gundam. Even some politicians cosplayed as Gundam characters in order to win votes.

Gundam is an animu icon.

>>1957776
http://www.google.com/trends?q=naruto%2C+%E3%83%8A%E3%83%AB%E3%83%88

Yeah.

>>1957769
By that, I take it you are actually praising it. Open source is fun to mess around with.

>>1957784
I'd wager that the current Prime Minister knows about Touhou.

>>1957784
>animu icon

One that has been failing a lot lately.

>>1957785
Yeah, but it also created a burst of creativity when milestones like Creative Commons were created

>>1957784
>Gundam is an animu icon.

That's why comparing it to touhou in the first place is retarded. And even not being a commercial product, touhou holds pretty well against it in popularity. The power of fan creations is impressive.

>>1957786
Title is written in english so elevens use it too. Still, something is wrong with these graphs. Maybe they don't use google much?

http://www.google.com/trends?q=naruto%2C+%E6%9D%B1%E6%96%B9&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&
sort=0

Touhou will never be popular in the states, get over it bros.

>>1957805
>Touhou will never be popular in the states, get over it bros.

Get over what?

>>1957805
I was under impression we were happy about it. Maybe you know something we don't.

>>1957799 Doesn't understand what 6.6% viewership means for an 80s show.
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

>>1957789
He knows about Rozen Maiden, that's for sure.

>>1957810
80's?!

The last gundam came out last year, and it started being published since 1979. In other words, it has lived twice as Touhou.

Nostalgiafags, anyone?

>>1957810
>Compares an old TV mecha series with a STG franchise

OK.

Gundam is 30 years old this year

>>1957828
Holy shit, me too

>>1957784
>As of 21 January 2008, the Gundam franchise is a 50 billion yen trademark

>As of November 7 2008, Lord of Vermilion has contributed over 4 billion ¥ in earnings for Square Enix.

>>1957784
I argue that no animu is more popular than Gundam. If you add up the ratings from 0079, Zeta, Wing, SEED, and 00. Nothing even comes close to it. Char's counter attack is one of the best selling animu movies of all time. And every year that a Gundam is out, it dominates the DVD market (though I don't understand why the Japs would spend money on a free cartoon show). It's a shame google trends has only been here since 2004.

Most of the people who grew up watching 0079 grew out of animu. Gundam has become its own genre. I facepalm at the people in this thread that compared it to Touhou.

>>1957837
You know, the funniest thing in that all is that Touhou seems to hold up pretty well in the comparison.

>>1957830
That's from Gundam's model kits alone.

>>1957839
>You know, the funniest thing in that all is that Touhou seems to hold up pretty well in the comparison.

Mobile Suit Gundam
Highest rating: 9.9%
Average rating: 5.3%

Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam
Highest rating: 11.7%
Average rating: 6.6%

Mobile Suit Gundam Double Zeta
Highest rating: 8.6%
Average rating: 6.1%

>>1957654
>comparing a leading commercial anime title to a doujin game sold at conventions.
This all started when >>1957607 said:
>The people in this thread are obviously talking about Touhou being popular within the context of the otaku community
I argue that Touhou is not popular inside of the "otaku community." The day Touhou sells 4 million units, and gets 12 million+ ratings on TV. I'll say it's popular.

Gundam (ironically) is even a more popular game than Touhou. And you and me both know how shitty the Gundam games are.

GundaMobile Suit: Gundam vs. Gundam sold 240,594 units in its first "week." ZUN is an independent game developer, so if Touhou could manage to sell half of that amount, ZUN would be rich. But clearly that isn't the case. Why aren't the Touhoufans supporting their favorite game designer?

You Touhoufags fail at statistics. Why even attempt to debate when the facts/numbers are not on your side? Honestly, you make my job too easy. You tried to beat me in a debate about statistics, and you failed miserably. This thread will be saved so that I may one day masturbate to it.

>>1957946
This. >>1957837

>>1957946
You guys always have to link popularity with money.

>>1957967
>Bawwwwwwww.

>>1957946
You don't realize your own stupidity at pointing statistics and comparing them with a doujin product or you are just a pretty lame troll. At any case, go back to /m/, nobody cares about your shitty series here.

>>1957946
Wow, you're a gigantic faggot

JESUS CHRIST A THIRD OF COMIKET IS TOUHOU THIS ISN'T THAT HARD

>>1957989
That's actually wrong.

>>1957967
Thread's full of trolling, faggotry, and fail. What do you expect, bro?

>>1957990
I hear it's a ridiculously large portion though. Anyone have the actual percentage?

>>1957984
>nobody cares about your shitty series here.
Apparently many people enjoy this shitty series, hence the reason why it dominates the ratings of Japanese TV.

Touhou on the other hand, not so much. Even in the West Touhou struggles to be popular. /a/, /v/, and /m/ hates Touhou. The only reason why I come to /jp/ is to witness verbal ass-whoopings (kinda like right now).

>>1958011
>many people enjoy

Doesn't make it less shitty.

>>1957988
>Wow, you're a gigantic faggot
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

>>1958014
Took a little over half of this Winter Comiket. Continued growth and Comiket may have to separate Touhou from it.

>I argue that Touhou is not popular inside of the "otaku community."

That's why it was THE biggest franchise in the latest Comiket. Otaku community has spoken pretty clearly on that matter, if you ask me.

>The day Touhou sells 4 million units

Prove it didn't.

>and gets 12 million+ ratings on TV.

TV is such an old and deprecated medium. Try to measure popularity in the channels that matter.

>Gundam vs. Gundam sold 240,594 units in its first "week."

Prove Touhou didn't.

All we know is SWR sold 30.000+ on the first day, in one venue. Think about how it translates to the entirety of Japan.

>ZUN would be rich. But clearly that isn't the case.

We're talking about a person who could safely quit his company work at the age of thirty-something. Clearly not rich.

>>1958033
>Took a little over half of this Winter Comiket. Continued growth and Comiket may have to separate Touhou from it.
[Citation needed]

>>1958014
885 Touhou related circles in summer 2008 (C74)
Over 35.000 circles total

I think you've seen this picture? That just the East wing AFAIK. I don't have a map of the whole building though.

>>1958052
It's still larger than any single series, though, right?

>>1958077
There is no information about the genre of the circles on the official page, but I'd say yes, it is.

>That's why it was THE biggest franchise in the latest Comiket. Otaku community has spoken pretty clearly on that matter, if you ask me.
Doujin groups != the entire otaku community. Do you think the 7+ million *otakus who purchased FFX will one day decide to create an RPG? Do you really think the millions of Japanese nerds who watch Gundam decide to draw fanart? The doujin scene is not popular.

>The day Touhou sells 4 million units.
>Prove it didn't.
Let's assume ZUN managed to sell two million units. That's x*(10^6) which would automatically make ZUN a millionaire. ZUN once joked about not being able to afford beer. He also talked about how happy he was when one of his fans offered him a free beer. He's REALLY living the life of a millionaire. Sugoi story aniki!

>Gundam vs. Gundam sold 240,594 units in its first "week."
>Prove Touhou didn't.
See the above:

>All we know is SWR sold 30.000+ on the first day, in one venue. Think about how it translates to the entirety of Japan.
[citation needed]

Even if ZUN managed to sell 40,000 units, that still is small compared to other *otaku* related things. If Touhou is popular amongst the otaku community it should be selling 180 thousand copies at the least. Last time I checked, Gundam is a part of the "otaku community." And one of the shitty Gundam games sold 240,594 units in its first week.

>ZUN would be rich. But clearly that isn't the case.
>We're talking about a person who could safely quit his company work at the age of thirty-something. Clearly not rich.
I could quit my job too if I was as skinny as ZUN. The man probably lives off of rice, bones, and saki. Poor bastard...

>>1958106
>blah blah blah touhou sells little

That's because Touhou related goods are only sold in doujin events and doujin shops mainly because ZUN doesn't want them to go mainstream, while the Gundam franchise is whored out and every cent that its worth is squeezed in all media and physical formats possible. Don't say Sunrise is not greedy.

>He also talked about how happy he was when one of his fans offered him a free beer.

That doesn't make him poor, you dolt.

>>1957078

>> generic low ranking games

>> Space invaders, Balloon Bomber, Mahjong, Bubble Bobble, Arkanoid, Shadow of the Ninja, etc...

lol wut.

>>1958123
Noone likes the Touhou games. As I said before, the Touhou name itself is well known amongst casual otakus, but that doesn't translate into sells. Do you think every Jap who watched IOSYS Marisa stole the precious thing will go out and purchase a Touhou game. Most of the people who watch those flashes couldn't even beat the first 2 levels of Touhou. Touhou is a game that lacks mainstream appeal, hence the reason why the shoot em up genre died.

Let's sum this up. Touhou is indeed popular amongst the doujin circles. However, the doujin circles themselves are a minority in the overall spectrum of the "otaku community."

>>1958052
>885 Touhou related circles in summer 2008 (C74)
Only 885? It couldn't be that small. Did you read it correctly?

>>1957607
>The people in this thread are obviously talking about Touhou being popular within the context of the otaku community.
Re-read the thing you are quoting. I was talking about how Code Geass only received 300,000 ratings so Adult Swim pushed it to a later time slot. The 300,000 ratings believe it or not is small in comparison to other animu like DBZ, G Gundam, Cowboy Bebop, and Naruto (a show that gets 3.9 million ratings in the USA alone). Both Naruto and DBZ were the most popular shows for kids and teens. Naruto increased Catoon Networks teen demographic by 32%.

>>1958142
>Space invaders
You would go and point to the only success in a sea of shit. Taito sucks, I wont even debate this. Want me to give you three paragraphs explaining why Taito is going bankrupt?

>>1958175
>Noone likes the Touhou games.

Way to overstate your case, pal.

>Doujin groups != the entire otaku community.

Sorry to break that to you, but yes, they're the very heart of the otaku community.

Otaku != anime viewer. There are casual ones, too, those bored people with no interest in fandom things, watching Gundam on TV because they have nothing better to do, artificially imploding its ratings.

>ZUN once joked about not being able to afford beer.
>joked

Kinda answered yourself there.

And yeah, I guess this is pointless until we have some official figures on Touhou games sales. Until then, this discussion is moot, especially with someone as thick-skulled as you.

>>1958175
Not just touhou games, I'm talking about touhou related goods be them official or not.

>However, the doujin circles themselves are a minority in the overall spectrum of the "otaku community."
More than half million fans gathering in Comiket is no joke.

>Only 885? It couldn't be that small.
That's fucking huge for just one franchise, for your information.

I don't really get where are you trying to go, the fact is that Touhou IS popular amount otaku, and you comparing it to a saga like Gundam to prove otherwise is kinda silly.

>>1958204 Bawwww, I create games so I'm a REAL video gamer. You're not a true fan unless you contribute to the franchise.
Lolwut?

>>1958212
If it was popular it would have already had an official animu. Hell, even type-moon managed to get its own animu.

>>1958229
Not even T-M in its prime, when Fate/Stay Night was released, had more than 885 circles doing stuff, 692 exactly. Touhou doesn't have an anime because ZUN doesn't want to. Period.

I remembered just now. We have official sales figures for Silent Sinner in Blue tankoubon. 45 thousand copies in two weeks.

That's not much, but other doujin soft comics also sell a lot worse than the original games. And SSiB isn't particularly liked, too. How does that compare to Gundam manga, BTW?

>>1958222
Doujin fandom we speak of consists primarily of buyers.

...seriously, you're truly an idiot.

>>1958212
>More than half million fans gathering in Comiket is no joke.
Again you're confusing the animu community with the doujin groups. Out of that million only 30 thousand are actually inside of a doujin group. The rest are tourist and gaijin. Have you ever been to comiket?

>even type-moon managed to get its own animu.

>even

This is a pretty funny wording for one of the most popular anime franchises right now. How much did those ova movies sell? 60 thousands or something?

"Touhou is popular, using sufficiently lax definitions of 'popular'." I can't believe it took over 200 posts for you people to reach that point.

Fact: In its current form, Touhou has no mainstream presence whatsoever. The millions of kids watching Narushit haven't even heard of it. Nobody denies this. Whether or not it has _potential_ to reach mainstream success is a guessing matter and nothing else - fact remains, ZUN has made no effort to cut a deal with a real anime company.

Another fact is that in the crowd of the sort of social rejects who buy PVC figurines, Touhou is the new hottest shit around. This does not directly translate into money in ZUN's pocket because the vast majority of the Touhou merchandise is somebody else's homebrew, however it does give him a prime position to capitalize that shit if he so decides. There's nobody else to go to if you want to make an actual TV show out of this, and the sheer mass of the purchased fanworks suggests it would be pretty much guaranteed to be profitable on the level of Rozen Maiden or something.

>>1958267
>Have you ever been to comiket?
Well, have you?

>The rest are tourist and gaijin.
Looks like not.

>>1958272
Nice, every single time it ends up in "my definition of 'popular' was different from yours". At least this was a nice waste of time.

Why are you guys still arguing with a faggot who compares a mainstream anime title whored out just as much as the Final Fantasy franchise, if not more, to a doujin game created by a single man FOR FUN.

He doesn't even live off Touhou and the reason he's kept it to himself is to keep control over the series completely. Sure, he more or less encourages the fan-based work community around him, but if anything that just encourages more people to enjoy his product that he completely controls.

Not sure why most of you even care about the popularity. Hell, we're talking about different kinds of popularity here. Gundam's early and continued success makes it a old memorable mainstream name even to those who couldn't be called Otaku in the slightest. It's practically a household brand name remembered from childhood in the same way we'd remember Transformers even if you aren't into cartoons as a adult.

Touhou isn't mainstream. It probably never will be mainstream and frankly most people would prefer it never to become mainstream (seemingly including ZUN who hates the idea, even of a official Touhou anime like the plague, but frankly the quality of anime these days I can't say I blame him).

So what we have here is a argument about whether otaku culture is that mainstream and personally I don't care for that argument. Especially seeing as we're including anyone who has apparently ever watched anime as part of it, even though anime is to Japan as cartoons are to us in the west.

tl;dr - Gundam fag should get back to jerking off Sunrise's latest copy of the same god damn story they made twenty years ago.

>>1958293
>Why are you guys still arguing with a faggot who compares a mainstream anime title whored out just as much as the Final Fantasy franchise, if not more, to a doujin game created by a single man FOR FUN.

Because we can. It's a fun intellectual excersize. And the best part is, we actually have enough proof to pull that off.

We have nothing to worry here, at the very worst, he'll prove that the whored out mainstream anime title is more popular than a indie shmup made by one alcoholic. Big deal. At the best, we prove that the indie shmup is just as popular as the whored out mainstream anime title. Just how awesome that sounds?

>>1958310
http://www.google.com/trends?q=yugioh%2C+touhou&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0

I wonder if we'll ever live to see the day when Touhou is popular inside of the west.

>>1958323
http://www.google.com/trends?q=%E9%81%8A%E6%88%AF%E7%8E%8B%2C+%E6%9D%B1%E6%96%B9

Who cares about the west.

>>1958339
http://www.google.com/trends?q=%E9%81%8A%E6%88%AF%E7%8E%8B%2C+%E6%9D%B1%E6%96%B9%2C+east&ctab=0&
amp;geo=all&date=all&sort=0

>>1958347
You've had a translation error there. Here:

http://www.google.com/trends?q=%E9%81%8A%E6%88%AF%E7%8E%8B%2C+%E6%9D%B1%E6%96%B9%2C+eastward

>>1958310

I can kind of get that, but part of the reason I see call the Gundam guy a faggot is because the comparison is retarded and were he not so dedicated to arguing his point would be blatantly a troll (or maybe he thinks arguing a point badly is good trolling, I don't know).

Trying to argue Touhou as being unpopular to otaku because it's not as popular as a mainstream brand is pretty flawed from the start, but just as flawed were the feeble attempts to claim that if ZUN took it mainstream into anime it could become as popular.

The series just isn't designed to appeal to mainstream audiences, it's all set to ZUNs idea of a perfect game and is entirely based on his whims at any one time and oddly I prefer it that way. The moment it becomes mainstream it'll end up being broadened out into some moe magic girl anime almost indistinguishable from anything else around. Hell, it'd probably just end up as another Nanoha with more frilly dresses and hats and more empathise on overly moe 'bad guys'.

>>1958356
I gave you a chance to leave but you didn't take it. Oh well.

>>1958204
>Otaku != anime viewer. There are casual ones, too, those bored people with no interest in fandom things, watching Gundam on TV because they have nothing better to do, artificially imploding its ratings.

So if Gundam's fanbase is a bunch of casual fans, why do they continue to support the franchise (unlike ZUN's fanbase that only seems to leech off the franchise). I guess they must not like what he's selling.

Gundam Musou sold over a 100,000 copies, making it the first PS3 title to do so on its first day. Also, the game sold about 70 percent of its 170,000 -180,000 launch day shipments, making it rank third in overall sales — after Ridge Racer 7 and Mobile Suit Gundam: Crossfire.

Did you know that Gundam held the title of most selling PS3 game for an entire year? It also held the third most selling title for a few months. Unlike Touhou, the Gundam fans are true fans. Maybe if those 885 doujin circles could give ZUN a few yen, he'd gain some weight. I'm beginning to think noone but /jp/ers enjoy the games.

>>1958371
Well, he is a faggot and a troll. Obviously.

So what, are we supposed to lament the state of humanity that produces idiots like him? I, for one, prefer to have take as much fun out of the situation as I can. This is, I believe, what 4chan in general used to be about.

>The series just isn't designed to appeal to mainstream audiences

But this doesn't mean it can't be popular. Popular != mainstream. Many things mainstream fail to be popular despite their best attempts, and there's a significant number of niche things that are popular thanks to the niche alone. Like, say, Touhou.

>>1958405
I already told you. I have nothing to lose here. You're the one who makes an idiot out of yourself by seriously bothering to prove that the biggest anime series ever is more popular than a niche game made by an alcoholic in his spare time.

And failing.

>Gundam Musou sold over a 100,000 copies

For a franchise watched by millions of Japanese? Truly an awesome attach rate. This also doesn't seem much compared to how the most successful doujin games sell.

>>1958405
That number would be much greater if the PS3's system sells was higher. It wont be higher until the PS3 gets some JRPGs. Metal Gear 4 should have sold 2.2 million units in Japan by now.

http://kotaku.com/5104919/and-the-5-best+selling-ps3-games-of-all-time-in-japan-are

>>1958405
>My franchise sells more than yours, baawww

I still fail to see your point, weren't you trying to prove touhou was not popular in japan? So far you only have proven Gundam is popular and that in Sunrise all they care is about their fans' wallets.

>>1958452
>For a franchise watched by millions of Japanese? Truly an awesome attach rate. This also doesn't seem much compared to how the most successful doujin games sell.
1). All PS3 game sells are low as of now. The PS3 is too expensive.
2). Gundam games have a history of being shitty.
3). Even a game like Metal Gear that sold 4 million units is having a hard time. Gundam actually has sold half as much copies as Metal Gear 4. I don't know if that's embarrassing to Gundam or Metal Gear.
4). Touhou is a video game, yet it sells less than an animu video game. Animu video games have a long history of being shitty.
5). Just because the franchise is popular does not mean the games based on that franchise will sell. Lord of the Rings, the highest grossing movie of all time, (1.2 trillion) was not the best selling game of all time. Surprise surprise. But you probably already knew that.

>>1958503
>Touhou is a video game, yet it sells less than an animu video game.

See >>1958123
>That's because Touhou related goods are only sold in doujin events and doujin shops mainly because ZUN doesn't want them to go mainstream

Whereas anime games have marketing and sell in pretty much all videogame stores in Japan.

>Touhou is a video game, yet it sells less than an animu video game.

Repeating a lie won't make it true.

We simply don't know how many units Touhou sales. Period. All available facts and logic dictates it's a lot more than a mere 100 000, though.

I mean real logic, not your troll logic.

>>1958473
>weren't you trying to prove touhou was not popular in japan?
It's already been proven bro. Touhoufags love to talk about how dedicated the Touhou community is. Well if they are so dedicated, why aren't the games selling? The Gundam fans don't even have to worry about supporting the Gundam games. Gundam made 50 billion yen from model kit sells alone. Gundam actually controls over 90% of the model kit market.

ZUN on the other hand can only make money off of the games. You'd think the fans would be a little more supportive of him. Again, I'm starting to think the Touhou fans of Japan only care about the Touhou spinoffs. Let's be honest, the Touhou games are pretty mediocre.

>>1958548
>why aren't the games selling

Proof?

>>1958538
x*(10^5) would give ZUN enough money to hire someone to fix his shitty artstyle. And if all the Touhou games sold close to that amount ZUN would be a millionaire. But judging from his shitty blog, I'd say the man is in debt up to his ears.

>>1958558
That's some solid _facts_ there, boy.

http://www16.big.or.jp/~zun/
><img src="http://www16.big.or.jp/~zun/image/banner.gif" width=200 height=40>
ZUN even manages to fail at basic html. Later on today I should probably attempt to deface his website.

>>1958587
Now you are looking for straws... you seem to have a personal problem with ZUN. Out of arguments already?

>>1958558
>x*(10^5) would give ZUN enough money to hire someone to fix his shitty artstyle.

You forgot the part where he hires several manga artists to draw comics and illustrations for him.

>>1958600
>Out of arguments already?
No, I'm just tired.
>13:42
>19:10
Usually the Touhoufags admit defeat and/or resort to sagebombing and name calling.

I have nothing against ZUN, I just hate it when people worship him. He's a mediocre game designer. I've literally seen Americans create better games.

>>1958639
I, for one, don't worship him. Just respect him for letting the fans do what they want with his stuff, and back when touhou was not that popular he even joined a few doujinshi collaboration efforts, so he shows he is in touch with his people.

>He's a mediocre game designer.
I wouldn't know about that, what I know is that I enjoy the games.

>>1958639
You mean you've been doing this before? Repeatedly? And you've been here for six hours straight?

...I know it sounds a bit silly here, but... that's just pathetic. Even for /jp/ standards.

>>1958660
ZUN's a highly skilled programmer. Decent composer. Shitty artist and even shittier game designer.

If you compare the programming work ZUN has done to other Japanese programmers ZUN is actually quite talented. He has a strong understanding of calculus, geometry, and PI. It might look easy to code a game with bullets on a predefined 2D plain, but it's actually much harder than it looks. I've coded games like Sonic, Mario, Megaman, Metroid, and Castlevania with ease. But creating the pretty bullet patterns for a danmaku gave me a little challenge.

His music is decent by default because most Japanese retro games have shitty music.

His art and game designing skills on the other hand are pathetic. ZUN is a perfect example of why the West keeps beating the living shit out of the East when it comes to innovation. ZUN is a perfect example of a Japanese person. Their creativity is limited by their fear of breaking the mold. Like it or hate it, Touhou was done by the book. You'd think by now he would have tried to add RPG elements to Touhou. Or maybe even some side-quest. Is he only good at creating generic danmaku?

>>1958678
I have a script that allows me to watch this thread while doing other things.

>>1958736
>most Japanese retro games have shitty music

You have no taste.

>West keeps beating the living shit out of the East when it comes to innovation

You are insanely delusional.

>You'd think by now he would have tried to add RPG elements to Touhou. Or maybe even some side-quest.

That's an example of a shitty, uninventive thinking of a western person.

ZUN, on the other hand, simply took the shooting away. A small change that actually resulted in a completely new idea of gameplay. Only a true visionary could have thought of that.

>>1958777
1 unique gameplay gimmick after 2 decades of programming != innovative.

Plus I'm willing to bet StB was copypasted from something else.

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