/jp/ - Otaku Culture

How do I know if the guy who riichis is waiting on a ryanmen?

>>19395003
You don't
You don't try to deduce other peoples waits, but what's safe

So I made a bunch of emoji's for some friends on a private Mahjong server, but I thought I'd share the wealth and spread it around a bit.

https://mega.nz/#!1xBmWKDT!mqA88T6jOCRRTdRsovstypZFZ-Iu8770Hd6SUjXbD8k

I know I'm repeating myself, but fuck these small disconnects. Lost my 1st place to them in 7447

>Round starts
>Hand begins with a good set of Sou's and a completed 456 man sequence
>Get a pair of Ton's and pon the next discard
>Hand is now 44566788 of the Sou suit along with the 456 man suit
>Just want to win, so I don't mind a cheap hand
>Have to decided which sou to discard, do I want a 5, 8 or 4, 7 wait
>Go for the 4, 7
>Game goes on
>Draw the fucking 5 sou, discard it as it wouldn't help my hand
>Got another ton next draw, kan it and dead wall draw a fucking 8 sou
>Next round deal into Kamicha and my Kan gave him Dora too

What is the best choice for discard in pic related? This was the final part where it didn't work out for me, but before the 8 sou I discarded my hand was 44566788. Was it just a gamble on which sou tiles to discard and I got it wrong, or could I have worked out that 5,8 was better than 4,7?

>>19395139
>"You can reach me at.."
>not "you can riichi me"

ONE JOB

>>19397739
What was the though process in choosing 4,7 over 5,8 when you had nothing to support it with?

>>19397879
There was none, in my eyes they both did the same thing. That's why I'm asking if there was anyway of knowing which is the better option?

>>19397739
why would you throw out 6pin?
8 sou was already established as safe and he was furiten for 6 man
Your hand isn't even iishanten, why are you pushing?

>>19397739
You hand is probably fucked at that point and the hand is cheap. You should throw 6m as it just passed. If you were trying to complete the hand you would pon the 6m and throw 4m, but that would still be a bad decision.

>>19397739
Against a riichi, fold completely unless:
-your hand is tenpai AND with a good wait and at least ~3000 points
-your hand is 1-shanten for mangan or really good 1-shanten for 5200
-you know where most of the dora are, you're the dealer, you can advanc without taking too many risks..

Pushing is rarely worth it and folding can even bring you back to tenpai. Throwing away a pon of honors can buy you a few turns to get back to tenpai.

If you just wanted to win fast maybe go for 5-8, it's slightly better than 5-8 since in terms of sequence making, 34567 > 28 > 19.

>>19397739
Specifically talking about the picture, I can't see a single argument to throw anything except for the 6m here.
It's 100% safe, you don't have enough draws to reasonably complete what would be a cheap hand anyways.

Furthermore, it's only E3 and you're in second place.

>>19397751
...fuck. Time to switch from Mahjong to Sudoku.

>>19399884
>>19400055
>>19400211
>>19400584
Ah fuck, that's what I get for playing when extremely tired. I didn't even noticed I had two 6 mans in there, I thought I had 456 and just went with it.

I was just being retarded since I was tired, but thanks for insightful posts anyway.

"yea I have no yaku, get fucked"

>>19402320
>3 dora
>Didn't call riichi
What was his plan? Also please tell me he discarded that 5sou

>>19402693
Probably wanted to draw 5s for a ryanmen wait

>>19402731
Meant 2s

>>19402693
>he discarded that 5sou
no the yaku is tsumo, so he won. The smug fucker.

>3:0

>>19402948
Time to test my new mouse for some real vidya.

Fuck I think I already made a mistake

>>19402948
Fuck, I ended up in disconnect hell so I tried to switch to my phone but then I couldn't get back in at all. Gomen.

>Round starts
>Hand looks like trash
>"Man, nothing connects and look at all these honors and...."
>Start counting
>HAND IS FUCKING IISHANTEN FROM KOKUSHI
>Needs either a 9 pin or hatsu
>"Oh baby, here it comes"
>6 turns later all hatsu have been discarded
>On the same turn I grab a 9 pin
>Hand goes from Yakuman tier to pure trash

Why is Mahjong so cruel?

>>19408872
If you have all the yaochuu, this means someone is likely to have tanyao pinfu this and that baiman. Perfect defensive hand.

>>19408872
What's more cruel. Being on the receiving end of a yakuman or missing one?

>>19409376
If you play into a yakuman, you kinda deserve it, but it's all the more devestating.
If you miss one, it just means Fortuna doesn't like enough yet, so you better go back to some foot licking.

>>19409402
>Fortuna
Most closed hand-only yakumans die unborn and it's perfectly normal. Doesn't mean your hand is dead, too. Only thing you can't salvage with a bolt-hole yaku is nagashi mangan.

2:0

Speaking of 7447, wasn't there a site with some statistics? Where is that?

>>19410500
https://nodocchi.moe/tenhoulog/lobby.html#lobby=L7447
and account names redirect to the personal statistics pages

How does one person have all my winning tiles and win off from my discard right after declaring riichi. What is this luck?

>>19410713
>What is this luck?
You should step up your game.

>>19410713
His rng is better than yours. /s

>>19410713
Sometimes players enjoy picking on a certain opponent out of three. And some autists try to pull this irl even.

>>19410500
There was a monthly stats page that has been discontinued. You can still pull them elsewhere like nodocchi, but it isn't quite as clean.

>first place with 1500 points lead from second and 10 000 from third
>last round, oya
>third place riichis at the 7th turn
>IPPATSU TSUMO URADORA LOL
>fall in third place

Anyone got a good website/app/whatever for practicing scoring?

>>19408923
Okay, side convo here, does anyone else hate these morons that come in with their "high-level strategy" platitudes for posts like these? Like, seriously, we get it. You sniff the mahjong tiles coming out of your ass. Did you somehow thing your advice was new, warranted, or interesting? It's obviously a post for venting.

>cheap round
>one fucker gets to tenpai in 4-6 turns all the time but it's always 1-2 han so everyone is close
>lose a few thousand points because of riichi calls
>I'm the last dealer perfect for comeback
>hand is kinda weird, lots of pairs but also sequences (eg. 2335567)
>faggot calls a 3rd turn riichi
>ippatsu tsumo
>haneman
>dumpstered into 4th

>>19415500
today has been a total piece of shit for me too. nothing but dealing into early damaten hands, tanki and suji trap bullshit

>>19415500
>>19415550
>playing in joukyuu for the first time
>out of four games, get 4th place four times
>twice from going into the negatives
Every single game has been the same, I stick at second place for the first half or so of the game, then get dropped straight to 4th and get beaten down when I try to make a comeback. What really rubs it in is that any hands I've won have been through tsumo, everyone sees right through my bullshit.
Guess I'll just stick to ippan like a true dumbass.

>>19415680
>sticking to ippan
The fuck you think you're doing?
Get your ass back into joukyuu or you'll never improve
Post replays

/jp/ let's play!
1:0

>>19413915
https://github.com/chairbender/riichi-mahjong-scoring-quiz

>>19415696
>Get your ass back into joukyuu or you'll never improve
I gave it another go, but I still think I'm too much of a retard.
http://tenhou.net/3/?log=2018071313gm-0089-0000-6f7d308a&tw=3

>>19416006
Some of your issues were unavoidable, and then some are the result of your own stupidity. There is exactly one acceptable discard here and it is the 4m for tenpai with decent value.

>>19416178
Yeah, I was really focused on the Toitoi for whatever reason and didn't even realize I had shot myself in the foot until two seconds after the discard.

>>19416204
You also got greedy on S2. Just riichi it when you get the 6m. Chanta would be nice to add, but even if you do somehow draw the 9m you still lose out on chanta if you win on 4p and only waste time trying to chase it. Looking at the wall you would have even hit an ura dora for 5200.

There are plenty of other issues but fix the big ones first. Since you can't actually get kicked out of Joukyuu just work slowly toward getting better. Farming worse players won't make you better because they won't show you the mistakes you need to correct as often.

>>19416006
>discarding 3pin here
anon why
Your chances of completing that set were way higher than your chances of completing the 7,8,9p set

>>19416366
>>19416006
You really need to work on your tile efficiency anon
I'm not sure why you'd discard the 1man here. It enabled a complete set, leaving the 4,5man open to be completed by 6 or 3man, which is exactly what happened. Instead you should have discarded the 1sou, which leaves you more potentially useful tiles. Let's count the number of tiles you could have gotten into tenpai with had you dropped the 1sou instead
>two 3man tiles, four 6mans, four 2sous, and four 5pins
That's 14 live tiles to get into tenpai with
Discarding the 1man, there are only eight tiles to get into tenpai with. 1sou, 5pin, and 9pin
Also if you had drawn 3pin or 7pin before getting into tenpai, you could have potentially gotten pinfu for an open wait



Later in that same hand

>>19416204
Forget about toitoi. You somehow drew two doras and had a two sided 4 7 p wait. You would have drawn the 4p. But you ponned something and went back to 1 shanten, before ending with a shitty shanpon wait near the dora.
And notice that throwing 4m also could have let you put the dora in your game anyway for 7700 without breaking tenpai and getting a 3 sided wait. Throw 4m

Holy shit /mahjong/ my first account I created back in winter all clueless and green had 137 games till I got to 1kyuu. Today I got to Joukyuu on my phone account, looked up and it's 50 games. Now I'm curious how fast are tokujoufags in this regard.

>losing streak back to 1 dan from 3 dan
>first round get a pretty good chanta hand, had to drop a pair and increase shanten but it paid off and I got a haneman
>shimocha gets decent hands too so it's not once of those boring one sided matches
>close entire match, 4th suddenly butts in, ruins my dealer turn and I also deal into his hand after a riichi another time
>decent hand in second to last round
>kamicha gets double ron'd
>get my 2nd place with a 100 points lead from 3rd

Things are getting better. I have decent amount of 4ths so far but most of them were when I was in riichi so I guess I have to pay more attention to the pond and deduce what tiles might get out.
The other losses were when I got tsumo'd hard and/or tried to finish a decent valued hand to get a comeback

>>19420701
Some of us can get to tokujou in under 150 games or less.

>kamicha calls pon on the dora
>1shanten from a mangan hand
>draw and discard hatsu
>ron
>gets hanemans up the ass

Maybe I shouldn't complain when I pull stupid shit like this but still

>>19421674

>>19422204
>kamicha calls pon on the dora
>you win off of the dora on a single wait
wut

>>19424136
No, that's another game (like two or three games before that situation I described)
A baiman chiitoitsu in the very last round is super bullshit, so I shouldn't complain when someone gets into tenpai by calling a tile early.
Kinda stupid when it's just one person pulling bullshit though

I fucking love Chanta

>>19428827
And then you draw a 6m tile.

I had an insane hand the otehr day, but didn't know what to do with it. Can't find it though, so here in text form: 1133445599m 679s, I was east and need some points to catch up
Now what would've been the best plan? As fast as possible and do something with the sou tiles or drop them and go for a Chin Itsu? And if so open or closed?

>>19429498
Chiitoitsu Hon Itsu. You're 1-shanten.
Or Chinitsu by ponning 1/9

>>19429511
679 sou, so ponning 1/9 would move to a 2-shanten for hon itsu. Chii toitsu with optional chin itsu is also possible of course.

>3:4

Been to an IRL game today. Managed to build a concealed Chin Itsu of manzu only to get ronned when discarding the last mismatched tile

It hurts, lads

>>19434637
did your nose get longer?

>>19434650
The only thing that grew was my despair

>>19434664
At least the tiles are cute.

>>19434637
>typical useless tiles from a suit in starting hand (1,4,9)
>discard 1,9
>draw another 1
>turn 5 riichi from shimocha
>deal the 4
>ron
>uradora turns it into a mangan
>go into negative because I dealt into a ippatsu riichi while I was in riichi myself

Seriously, all the fucking risky shit I've dealt this month was safe or I deal into some 2 han shit but once I call riichi or get rid of some useless shit I started with I get fucked.
It's not dealing in either, I discarded a 3pin the game before because I had no tiles close it, and then I ended up in furiten with a 3,6,9 wait.
Another game I drew only honors and Sou tiles even though I had 0 sou tiles in my fucking hand and was in 2shanten

Somehow came back from last place with 2000 after dealing in three dama mangan to first place with 2000 more than 2nd. I got a bunch of renchans and finally a haneman tsumo with San Ankou at the very end

>South 4
>try to finish fast so 2nd place can't come back
>game almost over
>deal in dama dealer honitsu, mangan
>now third place
Shouldn't have riiched but I had no yaku ;_;

Dear diary, I ponned and fucked up.

>be second place after kamicha
>call yakuhai
>call 1 meld
>1 shanten with 46s to complete and 5m (the dora) alone, hopefully can work as pair
>toimen riichis
>shit
>he discards 5s
>kamicha discards 5s to defend
>chi it and wait on 5m tanki (the dora) with only 4 tiles in hand
>toimen in riichi throws red 5m
>end the game in first place by making him go below 0 with dealer mangan
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnZyTaSdBs0

>>19444330
The first one was fine. Chinitsu is worth a lot. Your mistake was throwing 8p over shaa. Right now you should be tenpai with a 58p wait.

>>19444330
Yeah you fucked up. You ponned. Why the fuck didn't you pon the 1p and the 4p right after? That's a pon palace hand if I ever saw one.

>0:2
Let's play!

>>19446329
>0:3

>>19446356
*3:0

>>19444330
Seriously, why didn't you call the other tiles?

>>19444849
>he doesn't feed another player tiles so he rons others several rounds so the entire table hates him and have them take him out for you

>>19448354
I was getting the second ones after all the time, all of them besides the initial pon. Who knew it's a 7 pairs hand.

>>19448402
You got the pair only because your pon changed drawing orders. It was a toitoi hand.

>>19448408
this is frankly too complicated for me but here, if it's any interesting (inb4 you call like a cheap slut anyway) http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2018071706gm-0089-0000-f609d690&tw=3 It's E2-2

>>19448465
Your draws would be different had you not called pon so chitoitsu wasn't an option.

Bad luck although you might have been able to prevent it by throwing west to focus on chinitsu even without toitoi? But the real mistake that got you ronned was not throwing 7sou before west. You didn't need 7s and it was dangerous. Also not folding against dealer riichi at the end and far from tenpai

>>19448623
>Also not folding against dealer riichi at the end and far from tenpai
Yup. Sitting on those hot scorched ruins and cry was more fun, thus the burned butt.

Do you give names to your tactics? For example "faking hon itsu and going for toitoi dora 2 instead" is my Saemon Saburou Jirou attack. I yell it out loud sometimes

>>19450401
Mine's "fuck I'm retarded" when I pass up a perfectly reasonable tanpin to pon palace and end up in a tanki wait on a useless wind tile. Bonus points if it's a hell wait or I'm in furiten, everyone knows I'm out for honitsu, and that's my only yaku.

>>19450401
"discarding an obviously dangerous tile and playing into someone's hand after they've called riichi" is one of my personal favorites, I've gotten pretty good at it too.

At what point does an early discarded tile suggest "he probably doesn't have any tiles of that suit in that area" versus "that's probably a senki suji"?

>>19450401
The only move I have any practiced skill on is my "Delicious Free Sex".

>deal into oya haneman, barely 3k points left
>actually manage to make it back to 1st by s4

I want to lick the Mahjong Goddess' pussy

>>19452495
>senki suji
Forget everything you read about senki suji or ura suji in that Osamuko article, they're meaningless.

>>19453355
Senki is dumb, urasuji/matagisuji happens fairly often

>>19453562
Matagi suji is fine, but ura suji has been statistically shown to be meaningless.

>>19453597
Source on that?

>>19453597
not sure what you're on about since avoiding ura suji (especially on the riichi tile) has been instrumental on improving my defense. I often see folks deal an ura suji tile vs a riichi and think to myself "wow, right in the ura huh?" just as the Ron call occurs. not Everytime obviously, but often enough to be statistically significant.

>>19453597
Urasuji seems pretty reliable, think about it this way: most hands have ryanmen and kanchan waits. The ryanmen waits will obviously fill faster. Nearing tenpai, you'd maybe have 1 ryanmen and 1-2 kanchan. The kanchan are about twice as likely to upgrade to ryanmen than to fill, creating urasuji. Not even accounting for people who wait for ryanmen to riichi

>>19450401
I call my double riichies the double dickings

>>19455616
>>19455860
it's 2018 guys, you won't go far if you still rely on something like ura suji

>>19458326
you've yet to provide any reasoning behind that stance aside from some vague statistic you haven't properly quoted

>>19458402
i don't have any; the most convincing way to see it yourself is look at your ranking, or amount of money lost in jansou. if it's not favourable, how about try switching to standard defense.

>>19458497
>i don't have any;
So you mean YOU fucked up using Ura Suji and now you're on a rampage and just hoping people line up with your world view, eh?

How petty.

>>19450401
I have a secret move I use sometimes called "Fuck, This Could Have Been A REALLY Good Hand". It guarantees me a tenpai at the end of the game. The trick is that I draw a yakuman hand, downgrade it to a mangan, draw what would have been my winning tile twice, then have someone call a closed kan of my actual winning tile. It works 99% of the time every time I draw a potential yakuman.

>>19458751
ahaha.
naive.

>>19458853
you're just talking big and acting like you know something we don't, but again, you provide NO compelling argument.

>>19458853
Can you give us the slightest bit of reasoning to back up your opinion? You haven't so far

>>19458882
>>19458972
Oh, well.
You see how every top player in the community advise against using ura suji and the likes?
Why? Because it directly increase your deal-in rate. Look at yours, I bet it's something pathetic around .15 - .20. That's because you try to incorporate something like ura suji in your defense.
In my years of playing I have never, ever try to use ura suji and the likes in my defensive play.

If you ask me to provide statistics, I don't have it. You'd have to find them in Japanese sources or somthing. But it's universally known that ura suji doesn't help when it comes to defense.

http://justanotherjapanesemahjongblog.blogspot.com/2012/01/defence-theory6-tile-risk-table.html (last paragraph)

>>19459106
that's a lot of bluster being served up. While you did at least provide a link this time, your claim is backed by a paragraph that is pretty lukewarm about call reading in general, as opposed to reflecting the condemnation you've been dishing out.

>The reason is because according to game record statistics from 東風莊's super high level tables, this so called discard reading,do not affect the risk of related tiles. So when you're in betaori, it's better to ignore these "skills".

This is hardly enough to counterbalance the large amount of literature and player experience claiming the contrary. also "super high level" tables are hardly representative of Mahjong as a whole.

>>19459187
keep on with your experience claiming the contrary then. also, keep on getting stuck at lower levels, because you said it yourself, "super high level" hardly represents mahjong as a whole.

how is it that people at pretty low levels usually like to claim that what they experience must be correct? if you already think like that, why even ask for evidence or counter-argument?

>>19459106
Actually 0.12 but it doesn't matter regardless. I could be a NoName shitter and that wouldn't make you right. Already read this article by the way and this lacks the actual hard data needed to make a point.

>>19459350
>how is it that people at pretty low levels usually like to claim that what they experience must be correct? if you already think like that, why even ask for evidence or counter-argument?
You're obviously not willing to engage into logical discourse anon.

>>19459350
>keep on with your experience claiming the contrary then.

my experience isn't ultimate by any means, but it's at least more reliable than a six year old opinion piece with no real data to back it up. I'm also unimpressed by your attempts at discrediting anyone that disagrees with claims of poor play and high deal-in rates backed only by your emotions towards folks who disagree with you.

I hope you only live online, I'd hate to share a table with someone this conceited.

>>19459414
>>19459382
>>19459350
if you guys find a fourth you could settle this like gentlemen

>>19459420
Or they could play sanma!

>>19459482
3PPD get fucked.

>>19459382
better be toku rate, I'm not impressed if it's 7447 rate or something.
>>19459414
please. what do I even gain when trying to tell you what's the better way to play the game? how about you provide a source that playing with ura suji in mind is better than without?
>>19459420
I wish mahjong arguments could be settled by a match.

>>19459521
Dude you haven't proven anything. All we know so far is that some people say it's good, others say it's not, and there are supposedly statistics that prove it's useless but without the actual numbers there's no way we can verify this. So either post the numbers or the discussion will remain blurry, and in this case you could at least answer >>19455860 (also taking in account the cases of people who wait for ryanmen to call riichi)

>>19459548
that's why I really hate mahjong discussion. the only way to prove a point is to getting to a higher level, since it means you know better than the opponent. well, you guys disregard the level already, so why should I be able to convince you?
The counter logic for that post is really simple. Every tile that's not 100% safe, has a chance to deal in. When you defend, do you play that 100% safe tile, or you risk getting ron'd by opponent? The number of cases where you run out of 100% safe tiles, normal suji, kabe etc is very, very rare.
There is many ways for ura suji to go wrong.
1. You think that a tile indicates ura suji, when it's not.
2. The wait with ura suji completed before the riichi.
A random non-suji tile usually has around 10% of dealing in. No matter a tile is ura suji or not, the chance of not dealing in is way higher. Of course you'd feel that your decision of keeping the ura suji and "everything else is safe" is correct most of the time.

>>19459521
>please. what do I even gain when trying to tell you what's the better way to play the game?
internet points apparently. You've done nothing but brag about how much of an awesome player you are this entire time. The"argument" stems from you felating your ego rather than any sort of strategy discussion. Mahjong is obviously just a means to an end for you.
>better be toku rate, I'm not impressed if it's 7447 rate or something.
case in point.


>how about you provide a source that playing with ura suji in mind is better than without?
burden of proof isn't on us. no one made any claims that ura suji was statistically superior. we've only been asking for the stats and quotes from "all the pros" to compare with our own opinions and experiences. maybe ura suji really is garbage and our perception is flawed, but your dick-wagging about how much of an expert you are and failure to provide anything solid isn't convincing or impressing anyone.

>>19459765
ohoho. all I tried to do is clearing that popular misconception, it would only help you. it's fine if you don't wanna listen.
i'm mad if i think bragging in 4chan even works.
it's also unreasonable to ask for stats in every situation. if that's the case, wouldn't everyone play based on that stats and then mahjong wouldn't be a game worth playing anymore?

Hmm, maybe my real plan is to make you hate me too much to ever listen to me, who knows.

>>19459729
>that's why I really hate mahjong discussion. the only way to prove a point is to getting to a higher level,
very very wrong attitude to take, but the rest of your post is at least a step in the right direction.

full brtaori obviously prioritizes genbutsu. normal suji and kabe are also obvious bedrock defensive techniques, but I disagree with the notion that circumstances where defensive options get sparse are "very very rare". as with all Mahjong discussion, the idea of context comes into play.

if someone calls an early riichi while you're two calls into what was supposed to be a quick cheap hand, defensive options get tighter and there is no reason to ignore a tool that might save you.
alternatively, there are also situations that force you to push in dangerous conditions. sometimes that extra bit of knowledge can help.

>>19459787
>ohoho. all I tried to do is clearing that popular misconception, it would only help you. it's fine if you don't wanna listen.
>i'm mad if i think bragging in 4chan even works.
now you're just a carricature of a circa 2005 forum jackass. you really need to get over yourself if you want to be taken seriously


>it's also unreasonable to ask for stats in every situation.
THEN DON'T START YOUR ARGUMENT CITING STATS IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANY

>Hmm, maybe my real plan is to make you hate me too much to ever listen to me, who knows.
the plan has been to get good information or an interesting differing opinion.

>>19459825
there is stats for this but it's in japanese dude. it's up to you whether to believe that "top players don't rely on ura suji" is true or not. get out of 4chan and actually learn about mahjong, really (maybe not but all you want is to play casually, but if that's the case then we shouldn't argue about something like this in the first place). besides, the guy who mentioned stats at the 1st place is not me, i'm waiting for him to get up here and help me lol
>>19459796
the number of situations that i see sub-average people don't play correct defense and instead resort into "safe-ish" tiles because of ura-suji logic is too many.
you have 14 tiles in your hand. with nothing else to resort to other than ura-suji, the better call would be to attack anyway. then i imagine we'd use ura suji logic, not to defend, but to choose the better tile to attack with. When the option to defend is chosen, the chance that we're put into that bad of a situation is really rare.

>>19459906
also, even in a situation that we need to choose a tile to attack with, it's still better to choose the tile that leads to a quicker path to victory, rather than the non-ura suji tile.

I'm the guy who first said ura suji is meaningless. I was going to dig up proof today but I got called in to work, so I'll do it when I find time. It's in Kagaku-suru Maajan by Totsugeki Tohoku, which I believe was the book that first kickstarted the digital revolution. Even in the synopsis on Amazon it says
>裏スジは危険ではない

https://www.amazon.co.jp/科学する麻雀-講談社現代新書-とつげき東北/dp/4061497650

>>19459906
>you have 14 tiles in your hand.
He just outlined a situation in which one could reasonably have much less than 14 tiles

I thought this was too funny not to share. Just the first few minutes, the rest is fairly standard I think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIPEOelNSFg

Also: I notice that sometimes players in these dramas are pretty careless when they wash, they don't bother to flip over any tiles that are showing. Is that a thing? My groups are always really careful to make sure everything's face down when we're washing. I know it probably doesn't matter at all and it's still mostly luck, but it seems like it gives you an advantage regardless if you know 3-4 tiles that aren't in your wall.

>>19460092
Mind explaining what this guy's argument is, then? Need I remind you, the burden of proof is on you, and an argument is still an argument.
Discussing with you hasn't been productive so far, it seems all you're interested in is showing off your dick while making assumptions about ours. If you don't have anything of substance to say (and no, "me good you bad so me right" isn't substantial) maybe you should just shut the fuck up and blame your parents for not hitting you enough as a child you stupid smug cunt

>>19459729
You're moving goalposts. We're not discussing full fold vs half fold but danger of urasuji vs danger of other similar numbered tiles

>>19460415
I didn't say anything about that in the 1st place. What I said was: "it's 2018 guys, you won't go far if you still rely on something like ura suji". And I didn't say it in respond to someone who only uses ura-suji as a last resort. I said it in respond to:
1. "ura suji (especially on the riichi tile) has been instrumental on improving my defense"
2. "Urasuji seems pretty reliable"
Those cases are where it goes really wrong and it's gonna hurt the player more than it helps.

That's the point.
Also I'm done with that 4chan cave. Huge apologies to the guy who got shitted on because of me.

>>19460518
I meant "pretty reliable" as in "15% chances dealing in instead of 10%". Whatever.

>>19460379
Shuffling vigorously and being careful to take tiles from all over the table instead of just one area is far more important than making sure they're face down. It unnecessarily slows the setup down and at worst means that some players don't shuffle as vigorously as they need to. The Japs don't do it, the Chinks don't do it so I see no reason to do it.

>>19460379
This. >>19461039
Some guys in a mahjong club where I play are also autistic about keeping the tiles face down when shuffling but the fact is that no one will remember any tile anyway since you put them back face down when you finish shuffling and then you'll be too focused building your wall to remember even 1 tile.

>>19460092
>裏スジ
>(n) frenulum of prepuce of penis​

>>19460550
this.
no one said ura trumps standard defense, it's just become best practice for me to avoid tiles in the area of the riichi tile and one or two previous discards.

and like >>19460396 said, we're fine with learning and contrasting, but the message has been pretty much nothing but baseless bragging.

>>19460379
>Is that a thing?
Yes. It's how I teach players to wash. It opens the door for cheating, but most people that don't play in Japan and practice cheating moves every day will never get so good to a point where they an utilize it, and bothering to flip them downwards just makes the shuffle take way longer than it needs to. Just wash and dry, no need to fold 'em.

>>19461754
I've been told that putting you hands level with the tiles and pushing them from the side helps mitigate this (as opposed to running your hands above the tiles)

>>19461927
>I've been told that
Bullshit. You saw it in the Shin Janki clip where they flip their files face down, just like I did.

>>19465498
nah, legit been told. I was helping someone teach two newbies and he explained it that way. I just acted like I knew but took a mental note.

but go ahead and link that clip, I'd like to see.

Your new mahjong hotness.

http://www.majsoul.com

>>19466012
Dammit, you 9. You beat me to the link.

>>19465840
https://youtu.be/mszbaPMYRRE?t=14m45s

It's only for the briefest of moments, but you can see them doing it, which is where I first picked up the idea.

>>19466012
how do I sign up for this shit

>>19466012
Is this only riichi? I don't want to accidentally start a game of Chinese mahjong.

>>19460379
Is this kino?

When are we going to have another /jp/-t/a/noshii tournament? It's been far too long and it should be too difficult to set up.

>>19468029
September maybe (duh)?

>>19468029
>it should be too difficult to set up
Ironic typo there anon
If you set one up I'll join

Never participated in those, on the one hand summer is better time for this, and on another, fall is just as good.

>>19468886
I passed joining on the last one for no real reason, shame since I'm a bit more busy now. I'd try my best to join a new one though.

>>19466012
T-this is actually pretty good. It may be Chinese, but they ain't done badly. There are only the two characters and nothing in the shop at the moment though, right?

>>19468029
>http://www.majsoul.com
>t/a/noshii tournament
I still cringe at how bad I fucked up in the east-west tournament we had in 2013.

>>19469576
>>19468029
ignore http://www.majsoul.com I guess I still had it selected and didn't notice

>>19466012

>>19466012
Anyone know what it's asking for here?

>>19469929
Username
Password
Password

>>19470059
thanks anon

2 games in and apparently I'm a offensive genius.

>>19470205
D-does anyone know if there's a way to reset stats or anything? Asking for a friend.

>>19470205
What do these stats mean?
I don't read chinamen speak

>>19472954
Attack, defense, speed, luck.

>>19473617
>tfw luck score of 100
i don't know whether to feel happy or sad...

>>19468029
>>19468268
>>19468964
Let's organize one or it'll just never happen
I propose the eleventh of August, 6pm EST time.
That's three weeks from now which gives people time to clear their schedule, but it's not far away enough for people to forget it's happening.

>>19474694
Well shall we just keep it within this thread as it's relatively short notice. Perhaps as a tester tournament. Obviously anyone can join if they find out about it but there's no need to advertise.

>>19474694
>Enough time
That's 9 days before the deadline of my bachelor thesis, I'm into panic mode by then. Lucky for you since I might be on /a/'s side

>>19474694
>choosing a Monday

>>19475007
It's a Saturday.

>>19475008
>August, 6
Well fuck, I need my glasses

>>19475008
It's a nighttime stroll in the garden of the sun, or it would be if...
>/quest/

>>19450401
i call rinshans "sakis"

>>19474917
>>19474986
What format did the previous tanoshii tourneys use? Were they single elimination tourneys? Round Robins?

>>19475282
Yeah they were single elimination.

>>19450401
I call damaten "the hidden blade"

chuuni to the max

Have you ever broken tenpai to try for a better yaku?
Did it work?

>>19476279
a few times. usually when I'm dominating and just do it for shits n giggles

>>19476279
I've drawn into tenpai and rejected it because of potential to improve both my wait and yaku before certainly.

>>19476279
Turning a triplet into a pair when no yaku except riichi so I can get pinfu
Sometimes stay dama until I can draw the tile needed for tanyao or chanta

>>19476279
Very rarely, I've only stayed dama when someone dropped one of my winning tiles, cause I'd miss on tanyao once though. It immediately paid off with a tsumo.

Is this game easy to pick up? It doesn't take long to learn the basic rules of chess and play a game, for example. Does this game require more reading up before you can play?

>>19477699
It's relatively easy to pick up, assuming you can memorise/know chink characters because there are a lot of them, also memorising the 3000 yaku can be hard, but you'll get used to it eventually. The difficult part is getting good enough to play with and trounce others.

>>19478206
Been studying moon for a while now so I've probably got the characters covered. Guess I'll just read the pastebin web game's info page while playing. Is it ok for shit players to join /jp/sie games?

>>19478206
Still not sure what the fuck is SOA.

>>19478272
>Is it ok for shit players to join /jp/sie games?
Yes.

>>19476279
Observe. This is how it is done.

http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2013061915gm-0089-0000-x9c3cbd955652&tw=0&ts=8

>>19474694
>I propose the eleventh of August, 6pm EST time.
I'm fine. Anyone making roster list so I can register my ID?

>>19474694
Make a thread on /a/ so more people can join.

>>19479191
Stay back and watch this. Just have a little luck.
http://tenhou.net/3/?log=2018062806gm-0089-0000-a2cecc18&tw=3&ts=1

>>19477699
It's not that difficult to pick up after you've memorised the basic hands
It looks intimidating because there's a lot of yaku, but when you're just startingout you'll just need to memorise the most common ones and furiten rules

maybe it was the riichi that made him believe it wasn't actually a kokushi

>>19480193
He might have thought that since he had 3 chuns, it was possible that was what you were waiting on. So he risked it since the round was about to end anyway.

>>19480407
Doubt it, since he can see 3 chun but all 4 west.

>>19480420
Oh wow. Just another case of muh tenpai then

>>19480193
real winner: kamicha

beat the odds massively thanks to simocha's death

>>19479225
I guess I can
Respond to this post with your tenhou ID and I will write it down

>>19460092
Alright here we go, from Totsugeki Tohoku's Kagaku-suru Maajan. The raw numbers aren't included unfortunately, but he says that urasuji are actually statistically a bit safer because other shapes like penchan and kanchan are eliminated. A discarded 1 means that a 13 kanchan is unlikely, and similarly a discarded 2 means that both a 12 penchan and a 24 kanchan are unlikely (and so the urasuji 3 to a discarded 2 is actually safer than the urasuji 2 to a discarded 1).

>>19482275
And for reference, here's the bit on urasuji from the new edition of Oshiete! Kagaku-suru Maajan. Here he notes that a discarded 2 means a 33 shanpon is also unlikely.

I've also got another book on discard reading from the JPML. Not sure how credible it is or whether it's backed by stats, and I don't have it on me right now so I can't take a picture, but it says that urasuji of a riichi tile is safe(r) because it would suggest that someone was already in tenpai with a kanchan and didn't riichi until they drew into a ryanmen. That might happen often in joukyuu, if you have a bad shape wait such as a kanchan or penchan and at least one other han (such as dora), recent digital strategy says you should riichi right away because your EV is higher than if you stay dama.

>>19482275
>>19482316
Oh, but this is no reason to start discarding urasuji against everything and then saying it's a useful tool for defense but in a different way. Just stick with the standard tile safety rankings of genbutsu > suji 19 > etc.

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2018-07-21/mahjong-is-now-officially-a-team-sport-in-japan/.134370

>>19482345
>that trailer
I didn't think it was honestly possible to make mahjong look lame or stupid given that in its base form it's already just sitting around a table drawing and discarding tiles

but they managed

>>19481177
That's embarrassing.

>>19482327
this is good info.

I wish there were more translated ressources going over the less obvious aspects of defense.

>someone calls riichi
>draw my first sou tile that round

Nice try, Mahjong sluts

>>19482615
It just looks like your typical sports bump to me to be honest.

>>19481177
Maybe make Google Form or something? My ID is 川島三崎, I haven't checked any Saki or FKMT thread in /a/ so I guess I'll be in /jp/ side.

I'm bad at gogle, please give me a trustworthy book with What Would You Discard to read.

>>19486739
300選

>>19481177
>posting Tenhou IDs

What kind of idiot would do that?

>>19486739
How much can you moon? I suppose WWYD books have the lowest moon requirements but they're also typically not as useful in teaching strategy as more text-heavy books.

>>19489962
>>19489903
No moon at all. I see so it's as useless as it looked like. rest rip in piece

>>19489997
Just stick to Riichi Book 1 and whatever English strategy articles are around then. It's more than enough to get you to stable tokujou level. Beyond that, unless you intend on playing thousands of games before getting anywhere (as some people do), you'll need to find a way to study the game, such as by learning moon and reading strategy books or by discussing strategy with strong players and getting your games reviewed.

>>19490044
I see. There are already some inconsistencies between the articles and the dainabook, guess no easy spoonfeeding for me.

>>19490079
Like what?

>>19490086
for example he wants me to drop 9sou here. Now I don't remember the source but it was about dropping isolated stuff, like 5pin here.

>>19490093
Your blocks there are 11m 557m 123s 789s. You need to form one more block with one of your other single tiles ("isolated" isn't the best word to use) 5p, 4s and 9s. 9s is the weakest single tile and doesn't contribute much to your hand. Don't get caught up in thinking that just because a tile is "isolated", it should be discarded before anything else.

Another way you can think of it is that discarding 9s loses the 789s ukeire, none of which lead to a good shape wait, while discarding 5p loses the 34567p ukeire. More ukeire means better odds of forming a block.

>>19490120
The Area of Effect type of deal huh.

>>19458020
>not dabbing as you call the "dab"ule riichi

>Start playing Mahjong in 2016
>Win a lot of games with friends, either win them with 1st place by a large margin, or lose by a small margin
>2017 rolls round and I start learning more strategies and hands to go for
>Start to see more 2nd and 3rd place games
>2018 begins
>losing more games then I win
>constantly overthinking hands and discards and never getting the hand I want
>several times I've predicted a Yakuman tier hand and got ii-shan-ten for it mulitple times only to deal into someone with a useless draw
>been losing more games the more I think about my hands, discards, and calls

You know, maybe this game isn't about luck and there is an actual strategy and I'm just too stupid to figure it out.

>>19490199
if ur friends don't know suji, suji traps won't work on them and you'll lose, etcetera

2:0

>faggot goes afk in the second round
>it takes forever, early riichi from another guy
>disconnected after that unnecessary long round
>mangan tsumo on my dealer turn
>deal into a haneman because I didn't see/hear the riichi
>still have one dealer turn, it might turn out fine
>get a bunch of pairs that don't really fit, roll with chiitoitsu because riichi was called once again by shimocha and I don't want to discard any of my pairs since he might be waiting for them
>same thing on my dealer turn just that tiles are further apart
>kamicha riichi
>toimen riichis too, anything that won't fuck my hand further are sou tiles, which were never discarded by toimen
>draw a third tile
>"fuck it"
>haneman

I was 4th anyways but fuck those faggots who go afk. It's already stupid those faggots never deal in once they disconnect but that second round combined with my shitty hands lately. really pissed me off

>>19491432
>never deal in once they disconnect
What's the deal with that? Is there some tenhou magic that protects afk cunts from dealing in?

>>19491468
Fuck you, that's why.
I swear, it's better playing like a retard since nobody knows what the fuck you're doing

Is anyone making a form for the tournament? Is it actually happening?

I'm actually interested too. Free till Septemb'r, roll out those 5 hanchans no breaks tourneys I can do eet

>>19491468
Fuck you I've dealt in multiple times while disconnected it pisses me off

>>19474694
Funny I have an IRL mahjong tourney that day.

>>19476263
Satoha stop posting anytime.

>>19480193
No it was 'muh honistu tenpai durr'

>>19484564
>>19483112
https://docs.google.com/forms/u/0/d/1TUVDEpVUkryVnDFZz74DBejEm5X-e85Pzs8jUqJcqBA/edit?usp=forms_home&ths=true

Okay here's a google forum instead then sign up here

>>19494293
So what format is it gonna be and what are the rules?

>>19494137
...what?

>>19494578
Sounds like a Saki character. Didn't read that.

>>19494636
I didn't actually
I like most mahjong manga but saki never clicked.

>>19494714
>I like most mahjong manga but saki never clicked.
Saki is a really bad battle shounen manga that uses the vehicle of mahjong in place of combat, and it yuri-baits. It's the perfect storm of shitty-otaku pandering. Not just otaku pandering, but shitty-otaku.

>>19494760
The butts are round though. That's an objective virtue.

>>19494760
>It's the perfect storm of shitty-otaku pandering. Not just otaku pandering, but shitty-otaku.
>/jp/ - Otaku Culture
Where do you people even come from?

People always love to complain about how Saki doesn't have any real mahjong just because it has superpowers. The series is much more thoughtful about strategy and tactics than the likes of Akagi, Koizumi or Tetsuya. Not only do you have characters using real defense strategy as (opposed to urasuji and "sensing the flow"), but there's also the element of how different superpowers interact with each other and how characters use them strategically for best effect. And this is without even mentioning spinoffs like Shinohayu which has almost no focus on superpowers at all.

I find it interesting that no one ever complains about mahjong manga like Naki no Ryuu, or Mukoubuchi, or Usagi, or Bird, none of which give a damn about depicting real mahjong. But nope, Saki's main characters are half-naked girls, so it's the spawn of Satan. Naki no Ryuu and Tohai have sex and gore but they're about hotblooded manly men doing hotblooded manly things so it's totally fine. Homoeroticism is only okay when it's between men apparently.

>>19495129
Are you implying there are no tactics and defense in Akagi when like 60 chapters in a row are about Washizu trying to run away from Akagi's hands while also trying to stop his leadership?

>>19495129
>it has superpowers
>The series is much more thoughtful about strategy and tactics
You already shot yourself in the foot. The fact that it has super power in general makes strategy a completely meaningless point. The reason people complain about it and how its not real Mahjong is because they literally are using super powers to get around the need of super powers in general. It's literally a mechanic that's put into series like these so they can asspull wins out of nowhere just by being angry, or believing in the TANOSHII of my NAKAMA. Much like Saki's unbelievable win in the end of the first season where she asspulls a win off of 3 Kans in a row to get a Kazoe Yakuman.

What makes it extra shitty is that after the first three or four characters, they just start throwing out all pretenses of giving these characters any real logical explanation for their shit, and they even upgraded Saki's lame power of "being so good at math mid-game that she can intentionally get a +/- 0" to "lol Rinshan Kaihou" because it was starting to lose ground against the other super powers.

The worst part about all of this is that the show doesn't even have the general excuses that other shows have for their asspulls, like Nen, Stands, Ki, Spells, or Nanomachines. They just have super powers dedicated to this one, single game, which won't really affect their lives in any other meaningful way. All because the author couldn't think of actually interesting situations like the greats that you mentioned to keep the story compelling.

If you want real Mahjong, go read Testunaki no Kirinji. Main character here gets this 7d bitch wet just by calling a garbage hand while in first to move the dealer game along.

>>19495129
Wait I feel like I've seen this exact post before
Regardless I do like the concept of mahjong super powers so I don't mind that aspect of Saki.It isn't real mahjong but that's fine because it's clearly not trying to be. It's interesting and fun to watch the girls try to play around and manipulate each others super powers by doing things like manipulating the turn order or co-operative play.

>>19495129
>>19495241

>>19494714 here, honestly my main gripe isn't the mahjong, but I gave zero fucks about the dialogue between matches. I found myself skipping huge portions just to get to the good parts. I figured that mahjong alone wasn't enough to salvage a story populated with characters I actively disliked doing shit (outside of mahjong) I gave zero fucks about.

but hey, don't misunderstand, I'm not saying it's shit, it just isn't my cup

>>19495241
How alive is its TL project? I remember last time he's going to the fourth parlor but that's more than 1 year ago.

>>19495752
4 chapters were released between may 30th and Father's day. nothing since.

he's promised more content but we'll have to wait and see if he can get decent raws.

How do I alphaori?

>>19495129
For me, Saki stopped being interesting almost immediately, but Achiga-hen was actually enjoyable, I've never gotten the hate towards Toki. Those chapters were the best in the series, because Toki has clear "limits" to her powers - she can see the future, and that's it.

But then you get the weird "luck manipulation" powers and it's like, you could fucking justify anything with that power. Saki pulls unbelievable amounts of bullshit based on this tangential relationship with kans / rinshans. She gets kans more often, she seemingly gets the exact tiles she wants off of rinshans, what is the limit? Can she make it so that all of a player's winning tiles are in the dead wall? Can she win a yakuman on the first draw because she just only gets tiles that complete kans and shit? There's no limit to her power. And the more of those sorts of weird luck-based abilities they introduce, the less interesting the entire series is.

Frankly, if it were just "girls with superpowers", the show would be very interesting, because they'd have to think of useful ways to use their superpowers. But as it is, it's literally just DBZ powerlevels, who can bullshit harder.

>>19495869

>>19495885
As opposed to betaori.

>>19495873
People hate Toki?

>>19495873
It gets even worse than that. Just the fact that the super powers exist in general make all of the limits of the show meaningless. I mean, even with the more well structured powers, what's stopping the author from suddenly having a character pull out a completely new unmentioned use of the power without warning? Or discover a new power altogether? Just the existence alone cheapens everything.

The limiter in such series usually is they all loose powers once they grow up.

>>19495869
Toss out the most dangerous tiles instead of the safe ones. You'll look like a madman and no one will know what you're doing. What's that? Dealer has a 258 wait? Here's a red 5.

>>19497934
Is that also the guy who disconnects when he hits 4th?

>>19496091
Who even cares about the limits, the point of the manga is to be interesting. The existence of super powers alone doesn't necessarily have to cheapen everything depending on the way they're applied.
Nothing's stopping the author from adding new uses to the character's powers, as long as she has a reason to and as long as the manga remains interesting as a result of it.
Nothing's stopping a "real mahjong" manga author from giving one of his characters a yakuman three times in a row and subsequently just calling it a statistical anomaly as opposed to lesbian magic powers.
Having super powers in your manga doesn't cheapen a manga, being a cheap author does.

>>19499054
He asserts dominance over mahjong by refusing to play. A true alphaori.

crunchymemes

>>19495129
Except the story/dialogue outside of Mahjong was mostly uninteresting, especially when Saki was in it.
The superpowers play a role in Saki, no point in denying it.
Who even gives a shit about Saki? People like the side characters much more.

It has some strategy bits but it's really not much

http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2018072508gm-0089-0000-7c8b3e6b&tw=1

I somehow got the feeling that everyone, especially shimocha, hated me.
I've been on a losing streak and I don't want to rest on my laurels, rate my shitty playstyle

>2:0

>>19501614
E1: Throwing live dora into someone with 3 calls was super aggressive when you have a cheap hand that isn't tenpai.
E2: Throw 1s over 8p. The 1s connects with nothing but the 8p makes the 66p into 668p. You maintain the option of tossing the 5s and keeping the 4s pair if the 7p comes. It works out for you because you hit some nice draws after that but it sure looked like a cheap 2900 hand. Once you commit to honitsu you should stick with it. Keep the pei over the 6p pair.
E2-1: What the hell are you doing with that opening 7s discard? You have plenty of options here: 2p, 7p, 5s, 9s but that 7s discard basically locks you into toitoi/chitoitsu. This hand has plenty of good shapes and could easily be a more conventional (and faster) hand with any of the aforementioned discards.

E3: I don't like the opening 3p discard. This hand looks really fast. 1m for a regular hand or even the 9s dora if you want to speed up the hand while keeping honitsu as an option. When you cut the 8s you probably could have tossed the nan instead since it was an isolated tile, but it looks like you were going full greed here and would have to throw either 8 or 9s later so this is probably ok. Again you hit a bunch of lucky draws and backed your way into a really nice hand.
E4 is fine.

S1: Throw 1m over chun. 8s isn't bad either because of the 0s. I probably wouldv'e thrown 1p over 3s at the end but this was minor.
S1-2: Even with 1 out, haku is better than a valueless ton.
S2: I prefer keeping the 12p over the 89s simply because the 7s is more likely to be used since it is near dora.
S2-1: 9s over haku, especially since you have the 6s. Ton over 5s. There is no reason to break up a 556 with a lone value honor. Once you commit to Junchan throw the 0s over the 6s as it only gets more dangerous.
S2-2: 9m over a value honor.
S3 and S4 were fine.

Overall you get super greedy and manage to back in to a few big hands and keep hitting your draws. This leads to a bunch of big hands which is probably unsustainable over any period of time but it works out for you here. You don't seem to defend too much but most of that probably has to do with you managing to get close to tenpai almost every hand, but you seem to have good judgement on what yaku to pursue although you lock yourself into it far too early rather than keeping your options open. Your efficiency needs some work, especially in the first few turns of every hand.
https://mahjong.guide/2017/01/31/haipai-efficiency-part-one/

>>19499451
>the point of the manga is to be interesting
It failed.

>The existence of super powers alone doesn't necessarily have to cheapen everything
"Doesn't have to" doesn't apply. It doesn't have a choice. When you introduce a power that is not founded in hard rules, then there are no rules being applied to the story, making literally everything possible, and therefore nothing interesting by default. Doesn't matter how it's "individually applied", what matters is the existence.

>>19502993
>It failed.
One of the most popular mahjong manga right now.

>making literally everything possible, and therefore nothing interesting by default.
Now that's a leap.

>claim saki isn't my thing
>whole thread goes to war over the golden cow

Is the difficulty in the Yakuza Kiwami Mahjong game rigged? I am climbing up over the ranked ladder of theirs and at rank 6 feels that whenever I get a really good starting hand , the A.I either.

a)Declares Riichi super early and gets Ippatsu.
b)Rons/Tsumos off a weak hand to head butt my good hand that wouldn't even be obivious 6 discards in.

Or I really suck at mahjong and I am just Pen-chan.

Kiwami's mahjong isn't that bad compared to Yakuza 5's "God of mahjong" hidden subquest.

now THAT was rigged shit

You guys talk about Saki saying it is mahjong with superpowers as if that's what it really is. Only a handful of girls have actual game breaking superpowers and half of them are from the same school (Eisui) that got eliminated on their first game against the main characters so they don't matter. Even Saki's rinshan is just a sense for the tiles that you guys have no problem in accepting when the one who does it is Akagi. All the other girls with some sort of skill (if they have any skill at all) are just playing with the flow and they counter each other so at the end the one with the best mahjong skill wins.

>>19504728
Akagi only pulled that kind of bullshit against Urabe

>>19504381
Better than being dead for the most part while waiting for someone to post their replay or say 0:2 or whatever.

>>19494578
Satoha is a character from Saki which is often depicted with a blade when winning hands. Btw she doesn't have any powers (since people seem to shit on the Saki series here because they have powers and they're girls).

>>19495873
>She gets kans more often, she seemingly gets the exact tiles she wants off of rinshans, what is the limit? Can she make it so that all of a player's winning tiles are in the dead wall? Can she win a yakuman on the first draw because she just only gets tiles that complete kans and shit? There's no limit to her power
Slippery slope. Her powers are well defined. She knows the replacement tiles and the next few tiles in the wall. And as far as we saw, it didn't get upgraded or anything, it's still the same.
Saki "pulls unbelievable amounts of bullshit" because she's the main character, just like Akagi or Ten do or any other mahjong manga main character probably do. Why would anyone read a manga about an average guy/girl playing average games of mahjong with average skills ? But the fact is this bullshit is within what to expect with her power.

>>19495241
>The fact that it has super power in general makes strategy a completely meaningless point.
Not the same person, I don't understand why that would be conflicting.
>It's literally a mechanic that's put into series like these so they can asspull wins out of nowhere just by being angry, or believing in the TANOSHII of my NAKAMA.
Uuuhh okay.
>they even upgraded Saki's lame power of "being so good at math mid-game that she can intentionally get a +/- 0" to "lol Rinshan Kaihou" because it was starting to lose ground against the other super powers.
What the fuck are you talking about ? She did rinshan in the 1st episode where we didn't even get to see other powers yet.
>They just have super powers dedicated to this one, single game, which won't really affect their lives in any other meaningful way.
Not true for a lot of characters. Plus why would they need to have powers which affect their lives, it's a fucking mahjong manga as far as we know. We only need to see how they're gonna use their powers on the table.

If you want real Mahjong, play it yourself or watch pro leagues.

>>19507611
>Not true for a lot of characters. Plus why would they need to have powers which affect their lives, it's a fucking mahjong manga as far as we know. We only need to see how they're gonna use their powers on the table.
Because it would be more interesting than seeing Saki and Nodoka blushing desu

How fun is it to feed migr/a/nts, do you feel enriched yet?..

>>19507640
>>19505118

>>19507633
>seeing Saki and Nodoka blushing desu
It got old by episode 2 but thankfully we get plenty of focus on other characters so we only see them when they're about to play or for 1 or 2 chapters between two tournament days.

>>19507543
Ten didn't pull any bullshit. Neither did Akagi outside of his appearance arc and this crazy Urabe shit.

>>19502533
E1: Looked like an Honitsu, that's why I thought I could keep going
E2: It was the third Pei, that's why I didn't want to keep it
E2-1: I think I misclicked/sneezed there. What other possible shaped could it have been? I guess I would've won if I went for tanyao
E3:I saw no point in keeping it. I kept 1m because Honitsu was also an option. 9s was dora. It's more likely to draw a fitting tile for 6p though Chanta was also an option.
When I drew the 8s I thought "I have good hand, and I'll keep it". As you said the nan was isolated and I wanted a safe tile to discard when calling other tiles.
S1-2: Yeah, I tend to ignore the value because I think "I'm going to toss both anyways"
S2: The Pin tiles were mocking me
S2-1: Yeah, I wasn't sure what to go for and it shows

I agree that I was greedy but to me it looked like they were going for open tanyaos or single yakuhai hands. If I'm close to tenpai I can try to shoot down other hands. In S1 I defended but then again I drew the dangerous 8p. If I would've drawn a tile that would've put me into tenpai I would've discarded the 9m though

Yeah, I'm not sure how to keep my options open. It usually looks like in S2-1 where I discarded the 5s because the hand might become chanta/junchan but it's possible I could get a meld with the 56s. And usually keeping my options open put me into more risks, sometimes it feels like I can't finish my hand or deal in because I couldn't commit.
In this game I kinda used my luck. Usually I want to try to hide what I'm going for but this time I got big hands early and even though they were obvious, it restricts others in the later rounds, at least I feel that way since I was in that position a lot.
Dunno if that yaku judgement is really good. I just look at my starting hand think how I can get a good hand with it like everyone else I guess.
I'll look into that guide, thanks.

>>19507655
Yeah, I didn't like the series that much at first but it gets better when those two aren't the focus

>>19507877
I don't think Akagi pulled that much crazy shit in his appearance.
Urabe was crazy but him reading Urabe was on point. I think he was just trying to pull some crazy shit to see if it works. Akagi would've probably laughed it off if Urabe wouldn't have discarded the winning tile in the last game.
It's like throwing a ball into the basket and turning around immediately after the throw . Either it gets in and you look like it all went like expected or you laugh it off or make it look like you were getting ready to defend

>>19507907
E1: That's a guess and a safe one to make as you can't read enough from his pond to determine that. You will eventually get punished for it, if not by that player then by someone else in dama. A late live dora discard like that is just asking for pain.
E2: It's not so much that pei is a good choice, but that 6p get way more dangerous the longer the hand gets. Toss the most dangerous stuff that doesn't fit first.
E2-1: With 2 dora and a bunch of good shapes that has plenty of potential for a normal riichi and maybe pin fu. If you have a reason to switch to something else you can take it but you should almost always default toward pushing to tenpai. If you look at the hands with any of the discards I mentioned you should be able to guess how they are expected to develop.
E3: Same thing. This is a massive efficiency loss. You might be able to back into something but a floating 3-7 is almost always superior to an isolated 1 or 9.

Riichi and pin fu are the basis of consistent play. If you have some dora you should generally push for more speed but there are two big problems with opening your hand: things are worth less and you lose 3 tiles from your defense every time you call. When people are just throwing anything you can get away with it but against competent players you will usually have to build hands yourself and adjust based on what others are doing.

Your yaku judgement ended up working most of the time in this game but I can't tell from one game if your judgement on going for things like junchan/chanta is correct. These two were certainly arguable based on your hands, but most low to mid Joukyuu players like those yaku far too much and don't prioritize the ones that really build your fundamentals correctly.

>>19508721
>E1: That's a guess and a safe one to make
And not a safe one to make

>>19504300
>One of the most popular mahjong manga right now.
Not due to it being interesting. Due to it being yuri-baiting battle shounen trite shit pandering to shitty otaku, like I said in the opening statement.

>Now that's a leap.
It's the same "leap" that makes Superman uninteresting as a character. His strength has no limits because the authors pull out whatever they want out of their asses. Superman literally forgets he has powers like wind breath. It's also a large reason why the big three are pretty unappealing to most of /a/.

They still sell gangbusters to idiots that don't know better.

>play like a fucking retard
>game ends in east 1-3 because I lost all my points
>queue again
>connection closed
>keep getting disconnected after 2 seconds of rejoining
>eventually don't get the option to rejoin
>queue again
>won't let me into a new match
So this is what rock bottom feels like.

>>19504728
>>19505032
>Akagi only pulled that kind of bullshit against Urabe
Even then, Akagi was just really fishing for a coincidence. The most "supernatural" thing about Akagi is his sense of how the tiles will go. And even then, that's just hunches. Akagi still feels incredibly mortal, and is regularly put into bad positions. In fact, he even goes over this several times, pointing out "Hey, you would have 100% guaranteed killed me if you had been a little more ballsy and pushed here. But because you pulled back, that hesitation will allow me to kill you". It's the entire thesis of the character, honestly.

>>19507543
>Her powers are well defined
Her powers are based off of a pun on her name, and even then, how are they well defined? You say that she knows the replacement tiles magically? Okay, then what about the fact that she seems to also magically gather triplets of the rinshan tiles? What happened to her actually interesting power of "math so good it hurts"?

>>19507611
>Not the same person, I don't understand why that would be conflicting.
Strategy exists because of knowledge and understanding of the world and its limits. To make a ham-handed analogy, I know in this world that creatures that walk on land require air to breath, so I can devise a strategy to kill something by submerging it in water where it can't gather the air it needs. When you introduce powers that subvert and exploit all logic without providing a hard foundation for it, strategy becomes inherently meaningless. How can I devise strategy in Mahjong when the game magically arranges itself so that this one particular girl get's all of the dora tiles for no reason other than her name is a pun on dragons?

>She did rinshan in the 1st episode where we didn't even get to see other powers yet.
>Do a thing that happens every so often once in a awhile while your show is still somewhat grounded in logic
>REEE SUPER POWERS!
This is you.

>Plus why would they need to have powers which affect their lives
Why would they mystically develop this singular ability that only affects a table game less than a quarter of the world plays for cheap money instead of something that affects survival abilities?

>>19509919
>How can I devise strategy in Mahjong when the game magically arranges itself so that this one particular girl get's all of the dora tiles for no reason other than her name is a pun on dragons
Kuro's "dora power" is so shit she always loses because hoarding dora means she has zero defense, that was a bad example.
Even Saki's rinshan can be countered by calling a kan and getting her tile.

the fuck is up with tenhou? I can't seem to join a game

>>19509919
>Why would they mystically develop this singular ability that only affects a table game less than a quarter of the world plays for cheap money instead of something that affects survival abilities?
because the universe revolves around mahjong

>>19509919
>How can I devise strategy in Mahjong when the game magically arranges itself so that this one particular girl get's all of the dora tiles for no reason other than her name is a pun on dragons?

You play around the assumption that she will likely be holding all the dora tiles? You avoid waits on the dora since you know that she holds them all and will avoid discarding it? You prioritise waits that aren't close to the dora since you know that she'll be avoiding those and can only discard non dora tiles?
You prioritize defending against her hands since you know all her hands will be huge?
Playing against her is basically like playing against someone where you know around 5-7 of their tiles since she gathers so many doras. If you can't think of ways to strategise around this then you probably suck at mahjong

>>19509919
>Akagi was just really fishing for a coincidence
True. I'm just making a difference between statistical anomalies like the Urabe wait (having him draw 2 kans and no safe tile so he searches for the pei) and others more down-to-earth coincidences like the final pei wait against Washizu, which would likely work in real life. Or that fake kan against yagi

Basically FKMT changed his writing style from "supernatural hunches" to "brain so big you can't even start comprehending".

he Basics
It is a mistake to think of Mahjong as a game of pure luck. To be successful requires considerable skill. For example, the player who is well versed in the rules and who masters the scoring chart will make the best decisions. This is one of the most basic strategies to master and win a game of Mahjong. Another helpful tip is to notice and memorize the discarded tiles of other players in order to know that tiles they will want to pick up.

Play Carefully To Have An Edge
In Mahjong, prudence is rewarded. When discarding your own tiles, do so discreetly. This will keep your opponent from figuring our the type of hand you are playing. A good Mahjong player should be flexible enough to change tactics in the middle of a game if necessary. It always pays to be adaptable.

Strategy
Once you receive your tiles, immediately evaluate the number you will need to win. For this, you must determine the specific number of tiles you will need to finish with the shortest possible path.

Playing To Win
Do not be afraid to take chances. Discard any tiles you will not need.

Playing Not To Lose
Discard your tiles cautiously. If you require only three tiles or less after four draws, you should play to win. Otherwise, play for a draw.

Playing For A Draw
Don't be the first to discard a Dragon or Wind tile. Don't play with doubles and don't claim one for a triplet. It is now safe to discard. Keep the contents of your hand concealed.

>>19509919
>Her powers are based off of a pun on her name, and even then, how are they well defined? You say that she knows the replacement tiles magically? Okay, then what about the fact that she seems to also magically gather triplets of the rinshan tiles?
More like her name is a pun based on her power.
But it's related, why would she know the replacement tiles if she could never draw triplets/quads to use that replacement tile ?
>What happened to her actually interesting power of "math so good it hurts"?
This is not a power and it was never her only ability. Read this blog where he explains how Saki may be playing (there are other analysis posts too) : http://randomwalloftext.com/2013/10/05/the-captain-quarterfinals-part-3-in-which-toyone-pursues-kyouko/

> When you introduce powers that subvert and exploit all logic without providing a hard foundation for it, strategy becomes inherently meaningless
But the powers are not illogical themselves. It's not like they can do whatever they want. If you know one player's power is to gather all dora, you change your playstyle to account for this. It's like an extra set of rules. Just like in real life you play differently whether there are red tiles or not, whether it's tonpuusen or hanchan, etc.
>How can I devise strategy in Mahjong when the game magically arranges itself so that this one particular girl get's all of the dora tiles for no reason other than her name is a pun on dragons?
Well the characters in this manga have no problems devising strategies to counter the powers. And that's something we regularly see with powerless but skillful characters (Yumi from S1 finals, Kyouko, Satoha, etc.)

">Do a thing that happens every so often once in a awhile while your show is still somewhat grounded in logic
>REEE SUPER POWERS!
This is you."
What the fuck are you even trying to say here.

>Why would they mystically develop this singular ability that only affects a table game less than a quarter of the world plays for cheap money instead of something that affects survival abilities?
Because it's a mahjong manga ? It's not like there aren't a bunch of characters that have powers that affect their everyday life anyway (Momo, Kaori, the miko school, etc.)

Post bullshit
>riichi ippatsu tsumo
>tanyao dora 3

>>19511411
Ipatsu on a furiten riichi.

>>19507543
>it didn't get upgraded or anything
She even pulled off pic related

>>19511411
I'm still bummed I didn't get Ippatsu, would've been my first sanbaiman chiitoitsu
>>19422204

>>19511501
Now that's just raising "raw power", she's still doing the same shit (kans, general table control) but just at a higher power level. It's not like she gained new abilities whatsoever.

2.0

>>19514246
this again

>>19514615
Are you >>19505118 weirdo? This means there are 2 people out of 4 needed in the lobby here http://tenhou.net/3/?L7447 and they are looking for more players. Feel free to join anytime, faggot.

>>19514802
no

>>19514802
"this again" is different from "this again?" don't try to pick up fights at random.

>>19514802
I've played mahjong before pal. Just not in recent times, I think my account probably got deactivated by now actually.

>>19515475
Was it half a year of inactivity? I don't remember the rules.

>>19515510
180 days, to be exact. Unranked lobbies count.

anyone actually buy the 4winds license or should I just look for an older version?

>>19509941
>Kuro's "dora power" is so shit she always loses because hoarding dora means she has zero defense, that was a bad example.
Hardly. The show decided it was a bad power and gave it a weakness. It could have just as easily turned her into a beast instead, and the distinction is razor thin here.
>Even Saki's rinshan can be countered by calling a kan and getting her tile
Yeah, just go get a Kan. That's the super easiest thing to do in the world all the time.

Anyways, retarded thoughts aside, this is so badly missing the point that if you weren't an idiot trying to think around the powers instead what the powers mean to the show as a whole, I probably wouldn't have replied.

>>19510329
>You play around the assumption that she will[...]
This is the same argument as above, attempting to address the powers on a case-by-case basis to show they aren't overpowered instead of realizing the crack in the foundation they create. Again, Ritz could have just as easily decided that Dora girls' weakness is some other aspect, and it would have made just as much logical sense because the show doesn't have any to begin with. She could have also given Dora girl a unique new power pulled out of her ass. Imagine that she gets Daisangen every time because someone tells her that in English the tiles are called dragons?

The point isn't "hurr how do I defeat it", the point is that the viewer, provided they aren't mentally deficient, doesn't care, because when the time comes, the author will use whatever cheap and lazy excuse she wants to in order to make who she wants to win, win. And it will be wholly unsatisfying to watch as a character pulls victory out of their ass by suddenly powering up because "I'M ANGRY FOR THE TANOSHI OF MY NAKAMA!" and uses the power in an unmentioned manner with little logical backing. Which, guess what, is how Saki season 1 ended. And thus, why attempting to build up strategic principals is worthless, because instead you're just trying to think of counter plays to oddly specific situations instead of having a grounded basis of playing and maneuvering.

It's formulaic and stupid.

>>19510841
>More like her name is a pun based on her power.
This is such a phenomenally stupid opening to this wall of text that I'm just not even going to bother with you.

>>19510696
It's also possible to believe that, if I remember right, Akagi formed his plan sometime around the first Kan, and realized that Urabe was going to build up duplicate tiles for defense. In which case, he just has to try and discard in such a way that makes certain tiles look dangerous based on what Urabe was looking for. Still a little bit 'high play', but has room to make the argument.

>>19517929
I like to believe Akagi went along with the flow for his final hand against Urabe. Kan to make him fold, calls to get to tenpai, and luckily with a chance of houtei

That previous Pei though.. two kans

>>19517929
>Again, Ritz could have just as easily decided that Dora girls' weakness is some other aspect, and it would have made just as much logical sense because the show doesn't have any to begin with. She could have also given Dora girl a unique new power pulled out of her ass. Imagine that she gets Daisangen every time because someone tells her that in English the tiles are called dragons?
But that has not happened. She only attracts dora and that's all, this has been established in universe and no hint of change has been introduced.
>And it will be wholly unsatisfying to watch as a character pulls victory out of their ass by suddenly powering up because "I'M ANGRY FOR THE TANOSHI OF MY NAKAMA!" and uses the power in an unmentioned manner with little logical backing.
This also, never happened.

You're complaining about the author being lazy when she has never done something for you to call her that, you have your own assumptions that go "BUT WHAT IF" and that's not how it works. Maybe you never touched the show to begin with.

As logical as the author tried to explain, Kirinji's third parlor win was an asspull.

>>19517929
>It's also possible to believe that, if I remember right, Akagi formed his plan sometime around the first Kan, and realized that Urabe was going to build up duplicate tiles for defense. In which case, he just has to try and discard in such a way that makes certain tiles look dangerous based on what Urabe was looking for. Still a little bit 'high play', but has room to make the argument.
People who don't play real mahjong often don't understand this, but that goes well beyond the level of "high play" into the realm of fictional superpowers. Now, I love Akagi and Ten, but what Akagi does throughout is really no different to anything that happens in Saki, except that in Akagi it's justified by vague plot device concepts of "flow" and "psychology" rather than any explicit superpowers. If anything, it's even more convenient for the narrative to not have to explain anything or consider any strategy when FKMT can handwave developments as "well Akagi somehow saw through that trap" or "Washizu had the flow".

But you know what? That's fine, because it's fiction. Akagi is special because he can do things that normal, real people can't. People who understand mahjong know that it doesn't work that way in real life. The same goes for Saki, except that manime retards see Akagi and think "whoa psychology that's so cool and realistic! Lesbian superpowers? Nah that's otaku-pandering bullshit" and disregard all the strategy that Saki does have, both real and fictional. It's fine if you don't like the central conceit - you're perfectly entitled to not like Saki for whatever reason - but it's either hypocrisy or ignorance to then place other mahjong manga on a pedestal because you think they're realistic when they're really anything but.

>>19518825
Except what Akagi does isn't 100% reliable. He has hunches that are often right but outside of this one very weird wait (described as outrageous and very very lucky), Akagi uses logic, psychology and gambling. Like not ronning Washizu to draw a dora and ron him on the next safe tile, not ronning Yasuoka to instead get a tsumo comeback, making a fake kan so Yagi discards the dora, going for cheaper hands to get direct hits, bluffing with shit hands, pinpointing waits based on hand value and so on.

Akagi's supernatural play is like 15% of the manga. The remaining 85% are logic. Even Washizu's play isn't "superpowers": he gets crazy good hands most of the time but it rarely becomes reality bending like Saki. It's not treated the same way.

I'm not saying Saki is bad but it's clearly different from Akagi. If anything it's closer to the first 3 volumes of Ten, but Ten changed a lot after that

>>19518902
You can't just "wait to draw a dora" in real mahjong dude. The flow is not real.

>>19519217
Whether you feel the concept of "flow" can work or not in real life, it's not an unrealistic gamble to bet on a dora draw when there are two in a pile of 12 or 13 iirc. A mediocre 3200 hand went up to 6400 which made the difference between life and death

>>19517929
>This is such a phenomenally stupid opening to this wall of text that I'm just not even going to bother with you.
Stop posting anytime then you fat troll I sufficiently fed you. Go away.

>>19519217
>You can't just "wait to draw a dora" in real mahjong dude.
Why not?

>>19518712
>She only attracts dora and that's all, this has been established in universe and no hint of change has been introduced.
He's a retard because we keep arguing that the powers have limits to them and the other characters can thus work their way around them but he just goes 'well what if the author just did this and that then it'd be complete bullshit with no strategy (while author never went astray from what was clearly defined, except for some stuff like Shizu's bullshit which is why it makes some of us so mad.)
He's either a troll or a muh manly anime for manly men such as myself/muh yakuza/muh gambling mahjong guy.
He of course never read about that blog that posts pretty neat Saki games analysis.

Whether you like Saki or not you can't compare godly luck (good draws) with WiFi lesbians determining each other's hand value using predictable magic.
It's not the same.

>>19490199
Sometimes learning more strategies can hinder your play because you dont know how to properly use them and the scenarios you should be using them. As a result, your tile efficiency suffers and your agari rate falls.
I also had this problem when i started learning more advanced defensive techniques like sakigiri which hurt my tile efficiency alot and led me to a pit of safety so i would lose badly if i kaburi a tsumo or if there are too many tsumo's. My advice would be to stick and fully master the fundamentals such as tile efficiency, value judgement and bailing before moving onto advanced techniques such as discard reading or sashikomi

Every time I come close to ranking up I choke and take fourth
Fuck this game

So, about that /a/ vs /jp/ tourney...

>>19523362
>>19494293
Make a thread on /a/ if you want them to join.

If baiman is "double mangan" and sanbaiman is "triple mangan," what are haneman and yakuman?

>>19523463
>them
it's not like there's a window to tag the username as /a/ or /jp/ in that doc. Is it ok?

>>19523484
1.5 slam and grand slam

1:4

>>19518712
>But that has not happened.
Literally irrelevant.
>She only attracts dora and that's all, this has been established in universe and no hint of change has been introduced.
Demonstrably false. Toki and Saki proves this.
>This also, never happened.
LITERALLY HAPPENED WHEN I SAID IT DID.

>You're complaining about the author being lazy
In general, yes. And why shouldn't I complain? Cheap writing for cheap shitty otaku.

>>19518782
I think only his win against heir doktorr was an asspull. I didn't see any issue with the second parlor win, which I assume you're talking about, cause it hasn't been translated up to the third yet.

>>19518825
>but that goes well beyond the level of "high play" into the realm of fictional superpowers.
So this is why you're an idiot in this one line. There's nothing super-powered about what Akagi does, and it's not even unheard of. Trying to use this as a basis for comparing it to Saki, when characters exist that "Have the power to win off of Hyoutai all the time and make sure it always gets to that tile hurr hurr hurr" is completely farcical and intellectually dishonest. Akagi's main "super power" is him just psychologically analyzing a person over a given period of time and gauging their play style. Most of the shit he pulls and needs explanations for are him figuring people out.

Saki, instead has "HURR POWER OF NAKAMA TANOSHIIIIIIII RINSHAN KAIHOOOOOOU UWAAA LESBIAN LOVE MEMES!"
I mean, there's a girl who literally gets better hands at Mahjong by eating Tacos and being autistically obsessed with them. If that's not grounds to dismiss a show alone, then you're probably not being honest with how mentally retarded you are.

>>19519217
>You can't just "wait to draw a dora" in real mahjong dude
And I think this alone proves that you are mentally retarded.

>>19519572
>Stop posting anytime then you fat troll I sufficiently fed you. Go away.
Wow holy shit dude, stop crying. The problem with your retarded ass statement was the fact that if the character was named off of her powers, then, in-universe, her parents had a 10 minute bouncing baby girl on hand and decided to name her after a power she could not have possibly exhibited.
>Hurr, but I was talking about from the author's perspective out of world
An equally retarded assertion, because 1. Of course she did, but 2. The entire point of the argument is that the author is shitty because she pulls shit out of her ass, and because she doesn't have a logical backbone, there's no real "excuse" for the reader to not go along with her trite horseshit.

>>19519603
>He's a retard because we keep arguing that the powers have limits to them and the other characters can thus work their way around them
I've literally debunked this twice now. Go back up the chain and read the statements on the problems with author asspulling and maybe think about how that damages the structure of good story telling and strategical thinking.
>He's either a troll or a muh manly anime for manly men such as myself/muh yakuza/muh gambling mahjong guy.
Oh wait, nevermind. You unironically enjoy being Yuri-baited. You're not mentally qualified to enter the discussion. My apologies.