/jp/ - Otaku Culture

There is more, but I do not wish to take up a large amount of image space. This picture shows three artist "what if?" interpretations based on the confusing EoSD Cirno portrait. The debacle is based on whether the top of her head is simply miscolored hair or a cap. There is also some strangely colored hair to the left, leaving some to humorously point it out.

>>19332522
>>19332579
That's strange, i didn't know that.
Here's proto-Sekibanki, drawn from what people could tell from the in game sprite.

i love stuff like this

The first piece of Banki fanart was Orin!

>>19335167
>>19335188
>>19335202
Sprite misinterpretations are always cute. For something a little different, I'm posting this Renko-Yumemi-Sumireko crack theory. It actually does seem plausible.

shrine maidens are prostitutes and their shrines act as brothels

>>19335767
Renko is Jewish!?

>>19335167
>>19335188
>>19335202
These are pretty adorable. Do you have more fanart made from sprite interpretations?

>>19336677
No that's Sanae.

>>19335865
I'm sure that might be the plot of some fan hentai doujin but that is certainly not the case in real life or in the official canon Touhou Project. However, did you know that Reimu's design was almost a complete copy of Sayo-chan from Kiki KaiKai before ZUN changed her hair to purple? What's actually funny is that Reimu's purple hair MIGHT be inspired from a lewd shrine maiden in a soft ero game called Trouble Outsiders (PC-98 1995). Thanks for bringing that up, horny anon!
>>19336677
You saw the Star of David on her tie, right? Renko is scheming something in her little book of physics and time-space distortions (joke). In all seriousness, I think ZUN is just making references to Yumemi through Renko and nothing more (although it would be really cool if Renko became Yumemi when she gets older).
>>19336709
Don't question the (((Moriya))) family.

Bump
Interesting thread.

In before someone points out Ellen being from another work but fails to realize other characters are also inspired by other works.

>>19339311
Thanks!
>>19339462
It's your lucky day.

Not a surprise, but just a reminder.
Akyuu was born in 1994.
Akyuu is turning 24 this August.

>>19337125
Man, giving Reimu detached sleeves as part of her miko outfit was a godsend decision on ZUN's part. In some alternate universe, Reimu's armpits aren't being fetishized every day.

>>19339737
Izumi Takemoto and ZUN ~ Part 2!!
>>19340014
ZUN was recently asked if Akyuu would actually be replaced when that date occurred and he said that Touhou operates on a timeless scale. He basically meant that things don't move forward unless he moves the plot forward. Gensokyo's time doesn't move with ours.
>>19340200
ZUN certainly didn't start the sleeveless style but he sure set the trend! Reimu's current design is blessed.

>>19340277
>He basically meant that things don't move forward unless he moves the plot forward.
Every time I want new touhou content, Akyuu dies a little?

>>19340292
He specifically said "Sazae-san time". Saze-san is an anime with 2,000+ episodes based on a long running manga of the same name. Think Simpsons or Spongebob. Things happen but in a timeless universe unless it is stated that time has moved on.

>>19340292
new touhou content is only created by stealing some of AQ's lifeforce

>>19340014
Old hag!

>>19340200
I wonder how far ZUN can go and still have people accept Reimu's clothes as a 'miko outfit'

>>19340014
Almost 24 and still single.
Akyuu-chan is such a loser!

>>19341292
Reimu could wear only her sleeves and I'd still consider it a miko outfit.

>>19341441
Non-ZUN artist interpretation cannot be fully considered canon. Reminder that we'd have lolikari!

>>19341680
I don't dislike this.

>>19341680
Drawing her as anything but petite is what's quasi canon

>>19341680
this image makes me incredibly uncomfortable
I prefer the mature, fertile yukari

>>19341720
>>19341751
When asked about character heights a while ago ZUN had this to say:
Tall: Sakuya, Meiling, Yukari
Fairly Tall: Reimu, Yuyuko, Alice, Letty, Ran
Fairly Short: Marisa, Youmu, Patchouli, Lunasa, Merlin
Short: Remilia, Lyrica, Chen, Cirno, Rumia, Flandre
>>19341768
The ZUN mandated Yukari, then.

>>19340014
Well the akyuu better enjoy these next couple of years before she dies

>>19341793
He also said that the 2hus where as tall as 10-14 year old girls. So Yukari wouldn't be taller than around 165cm.

>>19341871
Yes and that was a 10+ years ago and right now Reimu is canonically 16. The loli days are over, anon. At least your fairies and eternally young vampires are forever ungrowing though!

>>19341920
>that was a 10+ years ago and right now Reimu is canonically 16
Sazae-san time, bitch, Reimu is still a little girl. And Yukari is already a billion years old, so 10 years won't make a difference in her height.

>>19341934
Sazae-san time has no effect when it's been explicitly stated that time has moved on, anon. Reimu is 16~17 right now due to the time skips. Akyuu is safe because time hasn't moved on enough in the Touhou universe to affect her yet. Trying to claim Yukari is as tall as a 10 year old is ridiculous as well. She has boobs. When I said that was 10+ years ago, I meant it in real world time, not Gensokyo time. It's only been 2 or 3 Gensokyo years since Embodiment of Scarlet Devil, the time around when Reimu was 14. Yes, even though there were like 200 seasons in between. Sazae-san time is always in place unless stated otherwise or given an event to base something off of. Reimu is 16 or 17 right now.

If I actually ignored Sazae-san time all together Reimu would be 27 or so. Yikes.

>>19342001
>Trying to claim Yukari is as tall as a 10 year old is ridiculous as well
That's what ZUN said, so I don't see how it's ridiculous at all.
>She has boobs.
Lots of young girls do. An in her PCB portrait she's flat and looks like a little girl.
>Yikes
You say that like 17 year old Reimu isn't already completely disgusting.

>>19341680
There has not been a single piece of canon art portraying Yukari as anything but petite. In the latest parts of WaHH, she is shorter than Kasen. In FS she looks more mature, but her figure's still plenty flat. Fairies' manga author draws her as small as Marisa.

A case could be made for some characters (Satori, for instance, has been drawn with an ample chest and a somewhat mature figure), but not Yukari.

>>19342046
>You say that as if 17 year old Reimu isn't completely disgusting
17 year old Japanese girls are pretty cute, anon. You might just be a pedophile or gay.
>In ZUN's art she's (Yukari) flat and looks like a little girl.
Everyone in ZUN's early art looked like a flat little girl. You don't know the reason for this? It's posted in those pictures. He based it off Izumi Takemoto's artstyle. You take chibi caricatures too seriously. Besides, fairly tall for a 14 year old is very tall. If you wanted Yukari to look like the way she did in Curiosities of Lotus Asia then she would be considered in the "Fairly Short" section where Cirno and Remilia are. Pretty sure she can make herself look like a loli or a milf by manipulating boundaries anyway.

Conclusion: No one is taking away your lolicon doujins, calm down. Just recognize that Reimu and co. (the ones who can age at least) are 2-3 years older than they were in Embodiement of Scarlet Devil.

>>19342149
I can't believe we have to go through this again but only ZUN art can be trusted. Since ZUN draws all his charcaters like doll-humans we have no accurate measurements for what height is unless it comes from his mouth. All I know is that "fairly tall for a 14 year old" is certainly not the height of an 8 year old.

>>19342182
>You might just be a pedophile
Well...
>Everyone in ZUN's early art looked like a flat little girl
Yes, and it was glorious. But Sakuya didn't, specially not in PCB.
>Just recognize that Reimu and co. (the ones who can age at least) are 2-3 years older than they were in Embodiement of Scarlet Devil.
But I can't! I want them to still be cute, specially Marisa!
I can't accept a grownup Marisa without losing my will to live, anon. I just can't.

why

>>19342267
Don't worry anon, Marisa will soon be an immortal loli magician once she becomes a youkai by choice but then Reimu would have to kill her.

>>19342290
Not even Reimu is cold and heartless enough to kill her best friend, r-right?

>>19342205
>but only ZUN art can be trusted
>Since ZUN draws all his charcaters like doll-humans we have no accurate measurements
This is an awfully disingenuous way of saying "I don't regard any official art whatsoever canon, as they all contradict my headcanon interpretation of a single decade-old quote." Time passing doesn't meaningfully correlate in any way to characters' physical development in such an absurdly high-magic setting anyway, not that Reimu or Marisa or 2 years have anything to do with Yukari's ageless(ancient) ass anyway.

You're reaching pretty hard even on the ZUN quote by the way. When the metric is 10-14 the correct assumption is not 'tall for a 14 year old" as "tall for a 14 year old" is "average or above for X age older than 14". The absolute topend is around 14 year average, probably specifically for Japan which means pretty damn short. ZUN explicitly made it known that Okina is meant to be tall, he has taken no such stance with how the artists draw Yukari.

You can wallow in your confirmation bias as much as you want, but the only meaningful conclusion to take form this conversation is that Yukari will continue to be drawn small in virtually every official context, just like ZUN will continue to draw Aya without wings every single time, and fanonites will fanon regardless.

>>19342473
You can have your loli Yukari in your head, the only thing I was ever arguing was that she didn't look like an 8 year old hyperloli as portrayed in Curiosities of Lotus Asia. ZUN art is obviously not a metric for measurements, anon. If taken literally, every character would look like a deformed doll human. ZUN art is only useful for clothes, color, hair, and accessories. That is the extent of it. You are confusing art style with reality. You can have your loli Yukari headcanon but I am a Touhou purist. I believe only ZUN's words.

No amount of contradictory artwork from the various different contracted artists who've done work on official Touhou side materials will represent ZUN's views on what character should look like.

You guys also need to remember these are older Japanese times people, back before they had lots of meat and were only like 4'10 at adulthood.

>>19342533
>ZUN art is obviously not a metric for measurements
Then bloody show us a piece of canon art not made by ZUN that portrays Yukari as anything other than a flat-chested dwarf.

>>19332579
Why do Cirno's wings change shape every time she appears? ZUN even started drawing them the detached fanon way in the last game.

>>19342549
Youkai are not humans.

>>19342549
>4'10 at adulthood
I don't think I can get any more erect, anon.

>>19342561
That's debatable. If they have a human form, they'd be based in humans. They don't just typically decide to be a 9 foot tall human unless their legend is about a giant. They probably have human anatomy and guts too.

>>19342571
>They probably have human anatomy and guts too.
What about Wakasagihime? How does her insides work? How does she reproduce? How tasty would she be when grilled?

>>19342560
ZUN can't decide on what they look like, honestly. Let's just go with "magic". She can control ice, after all.
>>19342557
Yes, ZUN art is not a metric for measurements. I already explained that I'm a purist, so I will not accept any other artist interpretation. If you want examples of other """canon""" artists that portray Yukari as mature look at Moe Harukawa's art from Antimony of Common flowers, any of Alphes' art from the three original fighting games and Pefect Memento in Strict Sense.

If you are trying to saying that all official art is "canon" then have a field day with this milf.

My point: Artist interpretations that aren't from ZUN are not canon. They clash with each other between each artist. You cannot hold one up as canon over the other. They are all based on one source: ZUN. Unfortunately, ZUN's artstyle is not kind to proportions. He himself said that no matter how much they age, he'll always draw them like little girls. It's his style.
>>19342571
You talked about eating habits. Youkai literally fucking eat humans. I don't get what point you're trying to make about nutrition here.
>>19342562
Epic.

>>19342631
Forgot image.

>>19342592
>How does her insides work?
Same as any other fish.
>How does she reproduce?
Paizuri. She places a clutch of unfertilised eggs between her breasts and lures in a male. She then rubs the male's penis between her breasts, until the male reaches orgasm, mixing his sperm with the eggs. Hime then lets the eggs fall to the bottom of the Lake, where they mature.

Some say it's weird at first, and the eggs (and the slime that covers them) are cold, but once they warm up, the little hard nubs even provide a super nice sensation during the paizuri.
>How tasty would she be when grilled?
Not as tasty as tongue-fucking her mouth.

>>19342636
Anon, please. This is a thread talking about canon and trivia. Please don't do this.

>>19342631
>Youkai literally fucking eat humans
Most youkai in Gensokyo quite literally don't. In fact, even to man-eaters, human meat is considered a rare delicacy. About the only youkai that regularly consume "humans" are the vampires. If those even count.

Stop reading Zounose's bullshit.

>>19342647
It's been said multiple times that humans are purposefully spirited away to Gensokyo so youkai can feast upon them. They don't eat the villagers.

>>19342662
Yes, for those youkai who need human flesh/fluids to survive, which of the named characters we know only of the vampires. There are extremely few named man-eaters in the series, and the most well-known of them all (Rumia) can't even be bothered to hunt down humans, or doesn't seem to think it's worth the effort.

In the first place, human flesh being described as a "delicacy" implies it's not consumed every day.

>>19342687
Even so, it cannot be assumed youkai do not have the same eating habits or metabolism as humans. They aren't even one "species" as several kinds of them exist. Keep in mind that youkai literally means apparition AKA: ghost or ghost like image. Not of this world. Strange and inhuman.

>>19342697
I'm not making any claims. I'm just nitpicking your statements. I'm not actually the guy you were replying to. Sorry.

>>19342533
Hard to take you seriously as a purist when you don't even take ZUNart seriously. ZUN rather consistently draws young girl proportions in a series whose characters are rather consistently young girls, and with Nemuno and Okina (mostly Nemuno) showed that he's capable of drawing haghus, with two of the only explicit haghus in the series' history. Loli depictions are generally closer to the authentic ZUN designs than hag designs.

Also I really don't care what your opinion is, or your shameless status-wanking. I'm just pointing out that your way of interpreting ZUN's quote is noticeably biased and is likely to feed the "forever seventeen" retards, and that the reality is that Yukari is and will continue to be depicted as pre- or early-pubescent in virtually every meaningful depiction. >>19341751's absolutely correct and even if (if) Curiosities took it a bit too far it's still closer to canon and more of a reasonable attribute to artstyle than the retards that make Yukari upper teens or 20s+.

>>19342557
He can't, that's the entire basis of his fanon. There does not exist a canon visual depiction of Yukari's height as far as he is concerned, therefore his speculation (emphasis on "speculation", as it's not like the quote gave anything more than a relativistic description of the characters. It is just as vague as ZUNart.) based on a single quote he himself wrote off as "10+ years ago" earlier in this very conversation is the definitive metric.

Fanonites only care about plausibility, not probability. Hagtards and wingtards operate the exact same way: Never once been drawn with wings by the creator? Who cares, she plausibly could shapeshift wings, and ZUN never made it explicit she couldn't, so she has wings. Never not drawn as a young girl? Who cares, decade-old ZUN quote with liberal personal interpretation added, and all the stronghus are hags.

The important thing to remember is at the end of the day they pretty much only have secondary shit, and maybe one or two spinoff works to their name. Headcanon is headcanon because even if it's plausible and hasn't been explicitly debunked, it's virtually nonexistent and irrelevant as far as primary material is concerned.

Hina is a goddess only in title.
A god in Touhou fundamentally has a faith-based existence.
Hina does not gather faith, she gathers curses, and warns (scares) humans and in a sense becomes infamous.
Hina is fundamentally a youkai.

I'm not sure what the Yorigami sisters are exactly, maybe someone else knows more.

>>19342631
>He himself said that no matter how much they age, he'll always draw them like little girls. It's his style.
They don't age. Reimu isn't 16 years older than she was in EoSD (for reference, if she were 14 then, she'd be 30 now). ZUN has admitted that Gensokyo runs off the Sazae-san system.

>>19342706
>Never once been drawn with wings by the creator?
Maybe the EoSD fourth stage midboss doesn't have a face because we've never seen it.

>>19342716
I really like Hina and I'm grateful to her for helping humans.
Does that count as enough faith to make her a goddess?

>>19342724
>we've never seen it.
Well, some of us actually read the manga, so I don't know about that.

>>19342738
I thought we were going down the "only stuff drawn by ZUN counts" rabbit hole.

>>19342728
Faith in Touhou may require worship.
If you make a shrine to Hina and perform rituals and sacrifices, Hina may genuinely become a goddess.
Kanako is implied to be a goddess that may be based on a youkai, or a human,or a collective. It's possible.

>>19342751
That's really unfair. Hina, who is a good girl, isn't a goddess, but the rude and intrusive hag Kanako is.

>>19342706
Are you ignoring my posts? ZUN himself said NOT TO TRUST his art as an indicator for age. And you're willfully choosing to IGNORE that and the Perfect Memento in Strict Sense Yukari and Moe's Yukari and Alphes Yukari? What? I'll post it for you again. You don't choose what is canon. You cannot hold one artist over another because they all have different interpretations. This means that only ZUN can be trusted. And he himself said that his art is NOT an indicator for age. What does this mean?
-clothing
-color
-hair
-accessories
Are the only things that can be discerned from ZUN's art. All other art is ARTIST INTERPRETATION. And you're delusional. The 17-evergreen fags are the ones pushing the loli meme, who get angry when you call Yukari a hag.
>>19342724
Read the thread. We already fucking discussed the implications of the Sazae-san system.
see:
>>19341920
>>19341934
>>19342001

>>19342766
>>19342634
Please don't post duplicate images.

>>19342773
I thought they had not seen it due to their dense ignorance towards it. It was necessary.

>>19342766
The characters have aged zero years since Embodiment of Scarlet Devil. The Sazae-san system is the absence of the passage of time, not the mere fact that universe time doesn't match up with publishing time.

>>19342766
Why are you posting an image that you personally dismissed as non-canon earlier in the thread?

>>19342634
>>19342631
>>19342766
>I can't believe we have to go through this again but only ZUN art can be trusted.
Except when someone draws hagkari, apparently.

>I can't believe we have to go through this again but only ZUN art can be trusted.
>ZUN himself said NOT TO TRUST his art as an indicator for age.
This is exactly my point in >>19342706 by the way.
>He can't, that's the entire basis of his fanon. There does not exist a canon visual depiction of Yukari's height as far as he is concerned

>>19342796
If it is explicitly stated that time has passed, then time has passed, no matter how many seasons you can fit in a year. ZUN has said his characters do age but that he'll never draw them as older. The jump from 14 to 16-17 between EoSD and now is based on the games. You cannot consider 4 seasons a full year in Gensokyo time. In Scarlet Weather Rhapsody it was explicity stated that a year has passed since the incident with the Moriyas (MoF). One year. Add another year thanks to the print works also mentioning time. That's 2 confirmed years. Even though god knows how many seasons have passed.
>>19342810
I do consider it non-canon. I posted it to show the INCONSISTENCY between INTERPRETATIONS. No non-ZUN artist can be trusted. Additionally, ZUN himself said that his art is not a good indicator for age. That's his entire argument out the window. The only thing we know about Yukari is that she is 1,000s of years old and that, in PCB was "fairly tall" compared to most other characters who happen to be "10-14" sized 2 Gensokyo years ago.
>>19342821
Read the posts. ZUN art CAN be trusted, just NOT FOR AGE (AS HE STATED).
>>19342847
ZUN said his art can't TRUSTED FOR AGE.

>m-muh sazae-san time
I hate ZUN for pulling this fucking garbage when the games make it explicit that time is fucking moving and I hate all of you too.

>>19342862
ZUN doesn't want things to move quickly.

>>19342766
>The 17-evergreen fags are the ones pushing the loli meme, who get angry when you call Yukari a hag
lol wut, Have you ever been in Yukari thread?

>>19342862
That's still better than having the playable characters of Touhou 17 all be middle-aged women.

Hirasaka is the most-canon non-ZUN artist. Prove me wrong.

>>19342662
>They don't eat the villagers.
You know, the more I look over game dialogue and manga, the more I get the impression "Youkai aren't allowed to go to the human village and eat people" rather than "Youkai aren't allowed to eat people from the village".

>>19342687
What's weird is that Mystia is pretty proactive in hunting humans from her dialogue although she doesn't seem very successful. It's kind of funny how she's become "that girl who runs a grilled eel stand and is in a punk rock group."

>>19342716
Kami is a vague term anyway. A 9 tailed fox like Ran could be viewed as a Kami.
Hina is also a doll and might classify as a tsukumogami which still makes her a sort of god.

>>19342901
He is by sheer dint of speed.

>>19342878
Have you ever been in a Yukari thread? The meme is that Yukari likes to be considered young and that calling her a hag gets her mad.
>>19342884
Wrong. They would still be teenagers (16-17) because 2 canon years have passed. It is a soft Sazae and not a hard one (years don't exist).
>>19342901
>>19342911
Based deconstruction of those autists' arguments. Thank you for showing that their canon is based on preferences for one non-ZUN artist over another.

Oh wait it's that sperg from Fairies thread. Carry on lads, nothing to see here.

>>19342861
>ZUN has said his characters do age
Where?

>>19342919
Do you expect to be taken seriously when making overarching accusatory claims based on some shitpost? Yukari still isn't going to be drawn as a hag by doing so.

>>19342919
I see you deliberately missed the vital part of your post, alright let me help you.
>The 17-evergreen fags are the ones pushing the loli meme
Yukari threads are full like pic related art. May I ask where are the people that are pushing the loli stuff.

>>19342937
ZUN on Reimu:
>If I say how old she is, she’ll have to keep getting older. Suffice it to say they’re getting older. Besides, if she gets too old, I’m afraid some day she’d get too old to play danmaku.
They're getting older but he doesn't portray them that way.
>>19342955
Thanks for providing no counterargument, by the way ZUN:
>However, backing up a bit...generally speaking, they're about as tall as girls in their early teens ['10代前半' means 10 to 14 years old]. A suitable breakdown would be something like: Tall: Sakuya, Meiling, Yukari Fairly Tall: Reimu, Yuyuko, Alice, Letty, Ran Fairly Short: Marisa, Youmu, Patchouli, Lunasa, Merlin Short: Remilia, Lyrica, Chen, Cirno, Rumia, Flandre Basically, if we consider the top level as the height of a human in her late teens or older ['10代後半以降' means 15 years old or above] and the bottom.

Yukari is at the top level. This means that her height is 10代後半以降 (15 years or above). I'm not trying to argue that she's some sort of omega hag grandma. I'm just saying that she's not and will never be a loli. Something ZUN agrees with.

>>19342973
Those threads welcome all Yukari lewds. The joke is all you have to say is hag or baba and they'll reply to you with sexy images of Yukari saying: delicious and young! or 17 evergreen!.

>>19342986
Stop avoiding the question fag. Where are those filthy Yukarin lolicons?

>>19343005
In this thread right now, waiting to reiterate a debunked argument in the face of overwhelming evidence.

>>19343021
>In this thread right now
Oh, this is now Yukari thread? Sweet.

>>19342861
>The only thing we know about Yukari is that she is 1,000s of years old and that, in PCB was "fairly tall" compared to most other characters who happen to be "10-14" sized 2 Gensokyo years ago.
Which would put her in the 13-14 range in present, as there is very little reason to believe she'd grow in 2 years even if other characters did. That would put her closer to pretty much any of the official depictions in this thread than >>19342634.

So really what is your point? That Yukari's probably close to JC status?

>>19343036
Based 17 Evergreen Poster

>>19343041
Refer to post:
>>19342974
ZUN considers Yukari as the height of 15 years or older. "Tall" as he put it. No, she is not a loli. Remilia, Flandre, Cirno, and Rumia are lolis according to his words. Yukari is not in that camp.

>>19342919
>because 2 canon years have passed.
Oh so you're a secondary.

I thought this was going to be a FUN-filled THREAD with lots of new and interesting THINGS for me to be inspired by, but as it turns out, AUTISM has taken control of yet another peaceful THREAD...

>>19343061
It doesn't matter since age doesn't affect youkai anyway. Cirno is 60+ years old and will never look a day over 10.

>>19342974
>They're getting older but he doesn't portray them that way.
I think it could be argued that the characters of Touhou "grow" but their age never actually ticks, which is clearly a contradiction on the face of it but fiction lets you do that.

一応設定上は成長します。成長しないのは大人の都合的な（笑）- 2007
まあ、サザエさん時空なんで年取ってるのか不明だが - 2009

>>19343057
So not a loli, not a hag, but typically officially drawn as a loli anyway which is probably where the confusion comes from. I don't see how anyone but the hagfags are the losers in this conversation.

>>19343078
"Officially drawn". We've been through that already. Some draw Yukari as a loli and some draw her as a woman. ZUN has said she looks like a 15+ year old "tall" girl. Lolifags lose and hagfag lose.

>>19343036
Get out, hag poster.

>>19343057
That's only assuming she didn't get retconned in over a decade.

>>19343099
They also could have all been retconned to be men, but if you want to claim that something has been retconned you should at least show circumstantial evidence that it has occurred.

>>19343099
You're the one assuming it was retconned. Until ZUN comes out on what all the characters look like Yukari will always look like a "tall 15+ year old".

>>19343096
>>19343118
>ZUN has said she looks like a 15+ year old "tall" girl. Lolifags lose and hagfag lose.
ZUN never said that Yukari looked like a "tall 15+ year old", he was specifically referring to height, and the height referenced was that of a girl in the upper half of the 10s _or older_ (though for height it doesn't matter because girls stop growing taller once they hit 16 anyway).

>>19343118
>"tall 15+ year old".
Tall, 15+ year old*. Evergreenfags never give up do they?

Furthermore she looks like whatever people draw her to look like. Gensokyo does not exist and thus canon is subjective, and Yukari's appearance is not a historically consistent one. Chances are she'll continue to be drawn in a variety of flavors, as unlike Okina ZUN has not been explicit in regards to her.

Speaking of which, what's Moe up to post-FS?

>>19342933
And probably the same lad that blew a fuse over "e-celebs" in the gameplay thread.

>>19343162
Read it again. The "top level" (tall) (includes Sakuya, Meiling, Yukari) is described as "10代後半以降". That specifically means "15 year old or above". You're talking about the bottom level which he described as "10代前半" which means very early teens (loli).
>>19343191
ZUN's words, not mine. Okina is confirmed hagmom.

>>19343191
>canon is subjective
You wot m8?

>>19343199
>everyone i don't like is the same person

>>19343191
>canon is subjective

>>19343214
Cut him some slack, this was clearly a triggering subject for him.

>>19343199
I don't go on those threads because it's the same chart circle jerk over and over. It's only useful when new danmaku games come out.

>>19343206
"tall 15+ year old" are not ZUN's words at all. Stop lying.

>>19343233
>10代後半以降 (late teen: 15+)
>category: tall
um

Is this "hey I recognize you" shit some kind of meme? I've been seeing it all the time on /v/ too.

>>19343246
It's just a shitpost, ignore it.

>>19343243
Those are clearly not the words I quoted from you, now are they?

>>19343261
Oh, I was quoting ZUN, but this nitpick shows me that you're just a shameless angry hagfag or lolifag. It's not funny.

>>19343279
No need to get so defensive, it's simply a misunderstanding caused by your grammar. "Tall 15+" has a different meaning than "tall being 15+". You used the former, whereas ZUN used the latter.

>>19343299
Oh, she's obviously not 15. Sorry for making you misunderstand.

>>19343307
Looks like I'm not getting through. Ganbare, ESL-anon!

>>19343325
"Tall being 15+" could mean she is tall and 15 or the height of someone 15+ is considered tall. You were quite unclear on what you meant.

>>19343206
>Read it again. The "top level" (tall) (includes Sakuya, Meiling, Yukari) is described as "10代後半以降". That specifically means "15 year old or above".
He's referring to height only. The question that he was asked about height, he answered a question about height. And you cut off his fucking quote, his full quote is 10代後半以降程度の身長で which SPECIFICALLY refers only to height. You cut off the part that said "height" to make it sound like it wasn't about height.

Also, stop wanking about "15" already. The average age for someone in their 10代後半s is 17.

>>19343480
Okay? She's a little taller? It's not about age anyway, this 17 evergreen meme is getting out of hand. Fine. 15-17 in height.

>>19343497
How tall a girl is when she's 15-17 is how tall she'll be the rest of her life.

>>19343548
I think peak female height is reached from 18-21 so probably Yukari is a little shorter than an adult woman.

Apparently ZUN described Sakuya as 10-14 in a later message, but I'm not seeing that on the translated emails page. Would anyone happen to know what that was referring to?

>>19343581
In the Embodiment of Scarlet Devil text files, it is stated that Sakuya was 10-20 years old. Later, Hieda no Akyuu has stated that Sakuya claims to be in her late teams. Remilia has said that Sakuya has been working for her for so long that it doesn't seem fit to call her human in Imperishable Night's third good ending.

Basically, it would be wrong to describe her in the "early teens" tier (short) that Remilia and Cirno are in. These sources are from after his email message reports, so it is safe to say that she is still considered as tall as in her "late teens".

>>19343566
That's for boys. Any girl still getting taller during that period is a case of extremely non-standard maturation.

>>19343581
>>19343629
>As for her age, ZUN directly stated that "she plays the role of a human maid about 10 to 20 years old"[4] and "perhaps she is a character in her early teens[5]
>インターネットラジオ「萎えラジDNA コミケット72直前スペシャル」（2007年8月11日放送）でのZUNの発言

>>19343629
It's bad to use Remilia and Cirno for anything because Remilia was said to look no older than like 8 and fairies are generally smaller than even children. They're a bit smaller than just small for a 10-14 year old

>>19343676
Well ZUN described the lower tier as early teens (10-14) (short).
>>19343670
What's in between 10 and 20? 15. What does the (tall) tier say? 15+. Sakuya confirmed.
>>19343642
So are you saying that Yukari is already mature and is a saggy hag milfer?

>>19343777
In the 10-20 range is also the early teens which is apparently a cited ZUN statement.

>>19343798
Japanese classification of "teens" is weird. In the west we wouldn't consider anything past 17 a "teenager" anymore. Is this how they justify the age of consent? Do they think that a 15 year old is as mature as a 20 year old?

Height and age don't matter for appearance
>Okazaki Yumemi
>She doesn't look like it, but she's already 18.
>Chiyuri Kitashirakawa
>She may look immature, but she's 15 (probably immature).

ZUN's not unwilling to make older teen characters, but he's not afraid to say they still look younger.

>>19343818
A 15 year old is as immature as a 20 year old

>>19343642
Minors can't have sex by the way.

>>19343832
You can't use PC-98 characters like that though. Yumemi and Chiyuri are based on highschoolers, anyway. Late teens.
see post:
>>19339737
Also check out Yumimi Mix, it by itself is an interesting dive into the art of Takemoto that inspired ZUN so heavily.

>>19342724
Factually false. The time Marisa dyed her hair blonde (or stopped dying it red) to Akyuu growing up was a period of several years. Sazae-san simply means that the time in Gensokyo might not match the contemporary time it's being written, not that time passes differently. Ergo, it HSiFS doesn't actually take place 15 years after EoSD even if it was made 15 years after the latter.
>>19341920
>Reimu is canonically 16
Where is this ever mentioned?

>>19343857
It's an estimate based on the time that passed between when Reimu was 14 in EoSD to now in AoCF. There's only like 2 specific times anything mentioned a "year" passing, therefore Reimu is about 16 now. In my understanding, Gensokyo has many seasons per year instead of just four. So when they say a "long time has passed" or when a cycle of four seasons has passed (print works and games), it doesn't mean a year has passed. Sazae-san time operates on the fact that time doesn't flow or matter unless explicity states so. Only two times was it explicity stated that a year has past in the games and print works between EoSD and AoCF. Therefore, Reimu should be about 16.

>>19343818
>Do they think that a 15 year old is as mature as a 20 year old?
Yes, because it's true.

>>19343955
Tell that to most 1st world courts.

>>19343857
>>19343891
Except there are two games that make it clear that time flows the same as the real world.

Stop being secondaries.

>>19343891
Except Akyuu, PoFV and Sumi clearly shows that time flows normally in Gensokyo you dum-dum.

>>19343965
ZUN already retconned that like the hack he is. He recently said "oh lmao Gensokyo is the Simpsons XD".

>>19343971
ZUN retconned that.

>>19343857
> Sazae-san simply means that the time in Gensokyo might not match the contemporary time it's being written,
In-universe time not matching up with publishing schedules has never been the definition of the Sazae-san system. Otherwise it would apply to almost every series in existence, nobody describes series like Naruto or Bleach as Sazae-san just because the characters didn't get fifteen years older over the course of the series.

Sazae-san means the characters don't age, as in, whether the character's ages are changing at all is a mystery (ie, they don't): サザエさん時空なんで年取ってるのか不明だが.

>>19344033
This. ZUN just doesn't want anything interesting to happen in Genoskyo at all. It'll be the same boring non-happenings and refusal of character development that always plagued the series from day one.

>>19343976
Except he didn't and you're just you're too dense. Protagonists don't age but time flows normally and if plot demends it, which happened several times, stuff happens.

>>19343975
ZUN can go get sober. He already wrote that ULiL takes place 10 years after PoFV, he can't play the "floating timeline WEW" card now.

>Kanako: And here I thought you were starting to get used to me... (*3)
>3: About 4 years have passed since she came to Gensokyo.

"time doesn't pass" fags BTFO

>>19341680
That kind of Yukari is cute CUTE

>>19344050
If "time aged naturally" then Akyuu would be fucking dead. The whole reason this Sazae-san shit came up in the first place is because a fan asked ZUN if Akyuu would retire due to her rapidly approaching expiration date. Time in Gensokyo does not flow like time outside.
>>19344058
ZUN will make up shit as he goes. One day he'll say "LOL REIMU IS 28" and the next he'll be like "Nah Reimu is 14".

>>19344067
>then Akyuu would be fucking dead
Umm, Akyuu is technically 24 years old man.

>>19344079
The Child of Miare only lives for 30 years and then fucking dies.

>>19344067
What if the 28 year old Reimu story is happening AFTER the 14 year old Reimu story?

>>19343962
15 is legal in any real 1st world country

>>19344065
That's not even Hirasaka's loli Yukari

>>19344087
Yes and? First, ZUN said the she have shortnehed life spam not that she immediately die when she hit 30. Second she still have like another 6-10 years.

>>19344087
>>19344067

Even if Akyuu is 24 currently, it will take quite a few time skips or six more real years for her to die. But at this point you can expect anything from ZUN. e.g. Marisa's death in FS

>>19344136
Are you ESL? ZUN was asked if Akyuu would EVER die and he basically said no. Gensokyo time doesn't flow unless plot calls for it.
>>19344139
>Marisa's Death
Lol

>>19344064
Things were so simple back then.
I'm thinking ZUN is a hardcore Akyuufag. I don't see why this "time doesn't actually pass wwww" shit was necessary otherwise.

>>19344079
Akyuu is a girl

Don't give this vile bastard who replies to multiple multiple people per post any attention /jp/, he is a troll who hates Touhou with a passion and tries to ruin every good thread with his obnoxious drivel about Touhou being grimdark and hating Reimu and his bitching about what's canon and not.

>>19344211
How does that relate to ZUN saying Akyuu will never die? Stop trying to start a fake outrage. It's not funny.

>>19344145
>Gensokyo time doesn't flow unless plot calls for it
Which happened several times. Kudos to you too man.

>>19344065
Dumb sexy Yukari.

>>19344225
Yep. And every single time ZUN will be like "that never happened XD"!

>>19344211
Meet /jp/'s resident schizo, the guy who makes up a persona for everyone who has an opinion he disagrees with.

Can't we all just get along?

>>19344303
I also suppose he's the guy who fucked up your Starbucks order and dated your high school crush too, right?

I recognized everyone in this thread and you guys usually get along better than this. Please stop fighting!

>>19344303
Shut up disagreer-kun. Everyone can tell it's you because you disagree with me.

The phrase "Fate is a cruel mistress" perfectly fits Remilia; she's the mistress of the SDM, vampires are cruel by nature, and her power is manipulation of fate.

I wouldn't be surprised if the phrase was used as inspiration for her creation.

>>19344211
I thought it might be him but there was no proof of it so I left it alone.

>>19344567
I actually like this information. Nice going, anon.

ITT fags who are actually arguing over consistency in Touhou and fags who don't understand the principles of Sazae-san time. Time technically does pass in Sazae-san time in a loose sense (as it does in Gensokyo) however, characters do not age which is the important part here. A more understandable comparison would be The Simpsons. The important thing too keep in mind is that ZUN simply doesn't give a fuck about age, so neither should you.
That also brings me around too the point of consistency. Alot of people try too claim that the non-ZUN art in canon material doesn't count for some reason. ZUN specifically tells his artists how he wants shit drawn and always looks at it again for approval (post SSIB). The main point of this is that ZUN wants their too be many interpretations of his work. He doesn't want it too be a "his way is the only way" deal. Just because he has never personally drawn Aya with wings or a big futa cock doesn't mean that people should be looked down on when they do (especially with the wings example where ZUN has given explicit approval of art containing them). Touhou is many ways just isn't consistent so don't act like it should be.
Also as a side note: using comments and stuff ZUN made pre MoF should be taken with a grain of salt. He has changed his mind about alot of shit since then (like with Akyuu) largely because he never expected Touhou too still be going too this day.

>>19345406
>The main point of this is that ZUN wants their too be many interpretations of his work.
Which must be why he
>specifically tells his artists how he wants shit drawn and always looks at it again for approval

You're just a secondary in denial.

>>19345564
there's literally nothing wrong with being a secondary

westerners care more about autistic adherence to "official ZUN-only canon" than ZUN ever did

>>19345564
He gives pretty specific instructions too his artists, yeah (though this only goes for the manga as far as I know). That being said, every artist has wildly different styles that interpret characters very differently between each other as well as very differently from ZUN's own art. This lead too various interpretations. Im not seeing the contradiction here. The structure of how ZUN runs things with the series is pretty much built for this, and this is seen even better when you look at the tone difference between different works. ZUN himself is trying too make it so there is no single way too view things.
In general, having the mindset of there being a "right way" goes against alot ZUN's core principles. He relishes in fan creativity and expression and so should you.

>>19341793
>When asked about character heights a while ago ZUN had this to say
That was later expanded to include 'Extraordinarily Tall' (or 'Very Tall'), and 'Huge'.
'Very Tall' was described as 'like a tall foreigner', and included Rinnosuke and Yuuka.
'Huge' was simply described as 'Yuugi' and included... well, Yuugi.

How did this thread go to such complete shit in such a short period of time

>>19345669
Because of people like >>19345604
>there's literally nothing wrong with being a secondary

>>19345685
it's your kind who ruined /jp/ years ago by running all doujin culture out of /jp/ via years and years of omnipresent its-not-canon-so-its-trash shitposting

>>19345726
Reminder that you can accept and enjoy doujin culture without forcing your headcanons into actual canon.

>>19345669
What do you mean it's trash? This is beautiful. It's what makes me come back to Japan/General.

I have hard time believing your "ZUN said this" when you don't provide any sources.

>>19345897
Take that argument up with the 29 other people posting here, anon. Also, is Google such a fucking enemy to you? If you truly believe all of these ZUN quotes are lies then try to debunk one of them.

>>19345897
That's the problem when half of 'canon' is whatever Zun said while drunk at some post-convention get together, and someone just so happened to record it or write it down.
In the end, all of it really stops mattering, because even the officially printed material is subject to author bias and even the OOC commentary is 'only drawing on what you already know', he says.

>>19342367
She only offs problem children
If they do fuck all, they get ignored

>>19345752
/jp/ has advanced to the level at which most arguments about canon are about whether the visual appearance of characters in official touhou project media counts as secondary garbage. doujin culture in /jp/ is thoroughly dead and buried.

the current complete absence of doujin presence in /jp/ other than a few games and the occasional porno is the culmination of years of tireless work by pedantic assholes shitting on all established fan settings for contradicting canon and therefore being automatically garbage, as if everything that ZUN shit was platinum gold and everyone who ever presumed to put their own spin on was mixing shit into their ice cream.

>>19345969
Most of these quotes are directly from ZUN himself, anon. These are not rumors or he said she saids.

>>19345980
I don't think a couple of western autists arguing has to do with /jp/'s lack of OC. You have to realize that most anons left this place due to dissatisfaction with the mods. We left our peak user base long ago. /jp/ is getting slower by the minute. Idolshit and gachashit is slowly overtaking Touhou as the dominant presence in the board. We're at the tail end of Touhou supremacy on this board.

>>19346007
lack of OC is definitely a part of it but i'm also talking about the ways in which /jp/ interfaced with the japanese secondary scene in general. there was a time at which a great deal of /jp/ was able to recognize on sight and have discussion of a great variety of doujinshi and circles. now the only discussion of fanwork that happens is split evenly between autistic wanking about how DitR sucks and shitting on zounose for being king of grimderp faggots. people treat touhou like it's an actual historical record where the only analysis that is worth anything is that which is the exact record of the truth.

it's not even directly attributable to the overall decline of /jp/ (which this probably isn't the right thread for dissecting) either. it's related, but even than at most a parallel development. the "primary work good secondary works bad" attitude has been around for as long as /jp/, like with IOSYS hatred and stuff, but its gaining total ascendancy only happened sometime in the last five years, as people in /jp/ decided to desperately jettison everything secondary they could think of in the quest for ideological purity. names like water cushion and haniwa's store are now completely unknown despite their being in good enough standing even after all these years to get strange creator of outer worlds spots. music circles which used to be known by absolutely everyone are now only remarked on in passing in comiket threads.

it's very, very hard to believe the story in which the wholesale abandonment of secondary work and fan theorizing in general was the natural side effective of /jp/ decline rather than the result of a consciously elitist movement.

>>19345982
I'm aware of that.
I actually followed Zun's quotes and comments (usually someone video captured him saying these things) for years. That resulted in a vastly different image of the World of Touhou than common, because it's clear he's actually somewhat consistent in his worldbuilding even if the specifics get shifted around.
Various take aways such as 'the lunarians' claims cannot be trusted because they are overly prideful', 'just living in Gensokyo does not qualify as 'in/of Gensokyo'', and there existing a Kakure Kurisitan faction offscreen, out of sight out of mind.
I was just saying, due to the nature of the records 'sauce or it didn't happen' is worse than Kaguya's impossible requests.

>>19344324
>>19344351
Go back to /bant/.

>>19346246
Those pictures were protected /jp/ heritage long before anyone had dreamed that /bant/ might one day exist.

>>19345656
>The structure of how ZUN runs things with the series is pretty much built for this, and this is seen even better when you look at the tone difference between different works. ZUN himself is trying too make it so there is no single way too view things.
I think this explains why I have some reservations about the word that the next VFiS arc is a major/important one. The manga stands out because it's just a goofy/cute fairies manga, whereas a major story arc would likely make it closer to typical manga.

>>19346175
Because there are no doujin threads unless it's about music dumps. There's only three kinds of Touhou thread: character worship, gameplay, and lore discussion. Doujin-only people get bored with character worship so they try to worm their way into lore discussion by posting their headcanons and "what ifs". I think it's understandable to be angry at that. People get annoyed when they want to discuss something seriously and suddenly "i want to fuck x" or "x is a y!" appears and tries to clash with the topic of the thread. You can't just go in lore thread and put your ideas from doujins you read in them. They need to make their own doujin threads if they want that, which they don't anymore.

>>19345685
>>19345980
Without secondaries we wouldn't have Cookie, yukkuris, or anything to post in any of the threads dedicated to specific 2hus.

>>19346328
Why are you implying primaries cannot produce content?
And why are you implying yukkuri shit never existing would be a bad thing?

>>19346222
Assumptions (headcanons) are okay if you frame them as simply nothing but a theory. The problem is that people make assumptions and treat them as 100% pure canon. I remember back when people seriously claimed Sakuya was a lunarian or that Mima was the Hakurei god just based on some random fan-made assertion they found on some random wiki. I don't think you can say "ZUN SAID THIS!" and not provide a source or a quote. One of the most disturbing of these baseless assertions was the debacle over who 'owns' the rights to the PC-98 characters. People were vehemently saying that Amusment Makers held the copyright and that ZUN didn't bring most of the characters back due to ownership issues. That entire issue started because someone put their fan theory on the Touhou Wikia and people just ran with it. There are still some people who believe that today even though it was confirmed time and time again that ZUN owns all the rights to the PC-98 characters. This is why presenting your assumptions and headcanons as fact is destructive.
>>19346328
"Secondaries" doesn't refer to people who make fan material. It refers to people who consume fan material and fan material only while willfully ignoring official material.

>>19346294
>Doujin-only people get bored with character worship so they try to worm their way into lore discussion by posting their headcanons and "what ifs".
there was a time that when you could make a thread about some fucking random aspect of gensokyo and the thread wouldn't immediately be overrun by primary-only posters who treated the thread like their property and told everyone to get out. this default assumption was forced on /jp/ through intense shitposting. doujin threads were driven out of /jp/ via intense shitposting. you are basically looking at the aftermath of ethnic cleansing and wondering why the people are missing.

>>19346342
>Why are you implying primaries cannot produce content?
the only person who can produce content without descending into secondariness is ZUN.

>>19346359
>It refers to people who consume fan material and fan material only while willfully ignoring official material.
the term has not been used this way in /jp/ for about eight years.

>I remember back when people seriously claimed Sakuya was a lunarian
not here they didn't. people discussed it as a theory but sakuya being confirmed for lunarian was always just shitposting, or i guess shitposting hadn't been invented back then so it would have been trolling.

>>19346394
Well, you're being memed on hard. Secondaries has always referred to people who refuse to play the games or get into official lore. As for the Sakuya Lunarian thing, I do remember people saying that long before translations of official works were commonplace. That sort of stuff would always appear in lore threads.

>>19346342
>>19346359
Cookie, Yukkuri, and doujin art/music are extremely reliant on the secondary market to exist. You don't think the millions of people consuming these things all play the games do you? They're also bringing a constant flow of fresh blood and younger generations to touhou if the recent threads about that subject aren't completely false.

If your goal is to prevent touhou from reclining, then secondaries are instrumental to that purpose.

>>19346416
It's funny because you talk about that as if millions of Westerners go to Comiket. Most Japanese fans are incredibly knowledgeable about Touhou and know how to enjoy secondary works without disrupting serious canonical discussion. They can separate their porn and memes from what's official. They can enjoy both this way. This is something that most western fans do not know how to do.

>>19346415
>Well, you're being memed on hard.
terms are defined by how people use them, not what the prescriptivists say it is.

>As for the Sakuya Lunarian thing, I do remember people saying that long before translations of official works were commonplace. That sort of stuff would always appear in lore threads.
what, like, 2005?

>>19346432
>Most Japanese fans are incredibly knowledgeable about Touhou
Elementary schoolers who watch yukkuri LPs are knowledgeable about Touhou?

>>19346432
>Most Japanese fans are incredibly knowledgeable about Touhou and know how to enjoy secondary works without disrupting serious canonical discussion.
this sounds like an impression of japanese touhou communities that wasn't informed by any observation of such communities.

>They can separate their porn and memes from what's official. They can enjoy both this way.
the fact that you're able to call the entirety of secondary creation "porn and memes" indicates that you have never seriously engaged with any of it.

>>19346436
/jp/ wasn't created until 2008. I remember seeing those Sakuya fan theories all the way up until even 2012.
>>19346436
Okay if "secondaries" means people who make doujin works then I love secondaries. I fucking love them. They respect and enjoy the series so much that they decide to make a lot of enjoyable fan content from them

I'm not so keen on those people who ignore official content and consume only fan content, though. I think there is a word for them but I forgot what it's called. "Fucking x's". /jp/ has built an eltist culture over hating these guys. Hmmm but what could their name be...
>>19346461
Elementary school girls and boys don't go to Comiket to buy porn, anon.
>>19346474
That was the impression I made from visiting Futaba and 2ch. Futaba knows how to separate Touhou porn and Touhou general thanks to it's convenient 2 Touhou boards. 2ch is mostly memes but a lot of the guys their have serious conversation. When I think about good secondary creations, I think about music and non-H doujins. Unfortunately, most """secondary""" things being pushed are porn and memes though. Figures.

>>19346492
>Elementary school girls and boys don't go to Comiket to buy porn, anon.
Maybe not immediately, but after a long enough period of time they will. They may even become content creators themselves, and touhou's so much bigger than just comiket anyway.

>>19346492
>They respect and enjoy the series so much that they decide to make a lot of enjoyable fan content from them
What about, again, stuff like Cookie and Yukkuri that have grown so big and divergent that there are content creators which were introduced and are primarily or even exclusively invested with secondary material?

>>19346541
Correct, and there is nothing wrong with making secondary works. No one in the thread claimed that.
>>19346552
Cookie and Yukkuri are in the porn and meme category of Touhou doujins. Although I do not indulge in those subsects I do not see reason to hate on all of it's fans. A great chunk of them still keep up with the official content. It is wrong to immediately assume a Yukkuri or Cookie fan is immediately a complete secondary.

>>19346284
It stands out because it's one of the few official works that's largely self-contained. A person can be the fan of the fairies manga without the vaguest idea that it corresponds to a bullet hell series, and still get a decent grasp of the setting and its conventions.

I like works like that and Soku because they give rise of fans that have a perspective different from the mainline primaries without devolving into secondary-ness themselves.

>>19341308
https://exhentai.org/g/106396/dbfdc19788/

>>19348638
epic

>>19348638
I'm gonna need more evidence.

>>19335767
>In this world, you graduate from college at 11 and leave school at 13
Hahahaha
Gensokyo isn't the only place to be. It looks like the outside world is a little spiffy as well.
Less time out; more time into the lifespan...

>>19346246
Silence newfag! You violated rule number one! Lurk moar!

>>19342290
>>19342367
here's a touhou theory for you guys:

>Doremy: Your dream self walks and talks like she thinks she's a superhuman. Are you aspiring to be a youkai?
>Yukari: Have you ever thought about exceeding your humanity?

[Marisa runs off as Reimu contemplates the events of the Fortune Teller, who turned into a youkai and was dispatched by Reimu.]

Marisa is either seriously contemplating becoming a youkai magician, or she's slowly being turned into one by virtue of being exposed to the magical elements in the Forest of Magic.

>>19348638
I can't believe the cover is the best thing about this thing.

>>19348638
what the FUCK lol

>>19355409
Marisa has been contemplating immortality since forever and she'll keep contemplating it until forever because muh sazae-san time lmao

>>19355584
>since forever
shut the fuck up. reply to me with sources next time.

>>19344048
>guy who makes shooting games can't write stories
Almost 20 years later and people are still surprised by this.

>>19355637
You could try not being a secondary. Marisa being on the lookout for ways to become immortal isn't exactly obscure knowledge.

>>19355835
It's always good practice to source yourself when it comes to these threads. Your memory will definitely fail you.

>>19355850
Sorry man but I misplaced my spoon so I can't help you there. I could give you a hint of where the source is, though: PLAY the GAMES

>>19355409
As far as fighting game quotes are concerned, you cant actually take them too seriously. They aren't even written by ZUN. Also, that bit from FS is very misleading, since in context its very clearly talking about Kosuzu.
Their isn't really that much evidence that Marisa actually wants too become a youkai, only that she wants too be immortal. Her desire for immortality goes all the way back too Imperishable Night. Its also not a matter of weather or not Reimu would need too kill her (which would probably not be the case anyway since she isnt a villager and is already considered a super human) but even more so you need too consider if ZUN would want too kill her, and thats a hard no. Marisa is one of his main girls, character death simply doesn't fit in Touhou (Fortune Teller was hardly a character and only existed specifically too be killed), and similar too Akyuu she's very valuable of a character when it comes too writing.

>>19356709
>As far as fighting game quotes are concerned, you cant actually take them too seriously. They aren't even written by ZUN.
ZUN is still credited as either editor or director (on top of scenario writer but that's not relevant here). Not to mention that it is known how much he oversees the production of the fighters.

So even if it's not written by ZUN, it's something he personally saw and said "ye it's good", which means it's as valid as anything ZUN wrote himself.

>>19343191
>canon is subjective
Lmao

>>19356795
Thats why I said not too take them too seriously, not too ignore them entirely. I wouldnt exactly call it as valid since even though he does oversee the production of the fighting games pretty closely, he also still gives Tasofro a ton of creative freedom if the interviews are anything too go by. Plus fighting game banter is never something you should take too heart. Its not that is should be written off or ignored, but its not as critical as something that would be stated directly in a main game or the manga.

>>19356795
lol

>>19356918
>he also still gives Tasofro a ton of creative freedom if the interviews are anything too go by
>that Tasofro blog post where they recounted how ZUN blocked them from giving Aya in SWR an attack involving Momiji because those two don't like each other, which was something that nobody but him would have known at the time
lol

>>19357038
How can ZUN be so fucking based?

really tragic how a good trivia thread can derail so badly. thank you everyone who is trying to get it back on track.

did you know that like murasa, lyrica prismriver had some confusions over whether or not she wears shorts? her skirt is shaded down the middle in both PCB and PoFV, although later when she shows up in the background in fighters, its confirmed she wears a skirt like her sisters.

>>19357930
Sorry.
Didn't they all go nopan?

>>19357930
Funny how Minamitsu was the semi-modern version of that! Part 4 is here!

>>19357930
This isn't trivia.

>>19345663
Oh, I didn't know Yuuka was this tall.
Interesting.

>>19356083
You're confusing something Marisa said / did for something else to support your stance right now.

>>19359510
Counter

>>19357038
A ton of creative freedom =/= complete creative freedom. Of course there is some shit he'll just say no too. That, and SWR was a long ass time ago. He's seemingly become quite a bit more lenient over the years.

>>19358541
I wish ZUN drew more cosplaying Touhous.

>>19359510
You're a secondary.

>>19359786
>He's seemingly become quite a bit more lenient over the years.
Which totally must be why Momiji never appeared with an incorrect design besides the one time or why ZUN ordered Azuma to draw Okina as an adult when she already settled with drawing her as a loli.

Get lost.

>>19359956
>ZUN ordered Azuma to draw Okina as an adult when she already settled with drawing her as a loli
I'll never forgive ZUN for this

>>19360037
Me neither. A loli sage would have been great plus we've had too many hags lately.

>>19360130
Imagine what could have been

>>19332534
off topic but this is the same kind of pixel art used in this MV, with a fandub/remix of Kotoko's Face of Fact. I've been trying to find the original upload of this remix for years, does anyone know anything about it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQu-fAQTTBQ

>>19359956
Maybe im just too drunk but I thought it was pretty clear I was specifically talking about his leniency with what Tasofro wants too do with their game. In print works he's more strict and thats no secret. The fact he even has someone else right the dialogue shows he's alot more willing too compromise with them than with his artists for the manga.

>>19360314
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjrIj4ORlgo
>>19360338
ZUN is more strict with art than with writing. This is why ZUN-mandated art cannot be canon while ZUN-mandated writing can. People still don't want to accept this fact.

>>19360394
I would say he's not more strict with one more than the other. If anything it might be a bit of the opposite. For example, Marisa always has short hair in WaHH and long hair in VFiS, meanwhile ZUN likely just rolls with whatever he doodles at the time. Going back a bit in the thread, their has already been talk about how alot of things in Touhou are just overall a bit inconsistent and that more than anything is what people need too accept. Worldbuilding (so writing) is what ZUN spends more time on and has clearly put more overall effort into imo. Even though he sometimes seems too forgot small details as time passes.
That being said I dont know how this even became about the art. My original point was that the script in the fighting games, especially the VS script, is not written specifically by ZUN and so how seriously too take it is questionable. We have it on good authority that everything from whats going on in each panel too the dialogue in the manga is strictly instructed by ZUN and later reviewed by him. By contrast, and what I was getting at, is that ZUN does not keep that tight of control on Tasofro. The fighting games are not ZUN's games, its theirs (by his own words). Hell AoCF would literally not even exist if Tasofro didn't pretty much ask for it. It also helps that they are long time friends of his.

>>19337125
To be fair that's just a generic miko design that was especially popular a few decades ago, it's not unique to that game.

>>19360606
Dude, Reimu is certainly based on Sayo-chan. It's almost as if you ignored every single piece of evidence on that picture. They're both STGs, they both have a young shrine maiden as the protag, they both have bakebake, and Reimu was originally supposed to be black haired right from the first game. Not to mention that ZUN used a cover of a Kiki KaiKai game for reference on drawing PoDD's Reimu portrait. The hair style is identical and the white bow is also identical on both pieces of art work. It's on the bottom of the page if you missed it. Also, Mystic Square's title "Kaikidan" is definitely a callback to "Kiki KaiKai" as they both share one kanji and audibly sound similiar. You made me reiterate what was supposed to be clearly shown on the picture.

>>19360661
Yeah ZUN did alot of referencing and possibly even straight up tracing back in the PC98 days. Wouldnt surprise me if this is another reason that he has severely distanced himself from those games.

>>19360726
He referenced even into the early windows era. As proven by this next edition! Part 5 woo!!

>>19360817
This also doesnt include the blatant Jojo references in EoSD that everyone is already aware of. But yeah, this is all understandable seeing as how back then Touhou was strictly a hobby for him and he never foresaw it becoming what it is now. References he throws around these day are alot less frequent and alot more subtle.
Good shit anon.

>>19360338
>>19360604
>ZUN is very strict except when he isn't when it suits my argument and that's why I'm right!
I thought I told you to get lost.

>>19362706
What is hard too understand about this? ZUN is strict with his own work (the manga/other printworks) but not so much with the fighting games which are not technically his work (he refers too them as such).
The print works are specifically his, the fighting games are a COLLABORATION (I need too put emphasis on this apparently). The whole point of what im saying is too point out that when it comes too Tasofro he gives them alot more leeway for their games as opposed too what he allows his own artists to do. When you collaborate on something with another group, you tend too do that as opposed too when something is entirely your work. ZUN allows someone else too take the reigns on dialouge writing with the fighting games as opposed giving detailed dialogue in the manga as an example of this. I cant see how you can say im wrong and that im only "suiting my own argument" when what im talking about is literally explaining how and why this is the case. Instead just saying get lost why dont you offer a counter argument then and refute my point?

>>19363200
Because there's nothing to argue against. It's documented that ZUN did tell them no at least once. Which means he does check up on the fighters to make sure they don't break canon. Which means the fighters are perfectly canon because ZUN checks up on them to make sure that is the case. Do you think ZUN being credited as editor/director is just for shits and giggles, you stupid son of a bitch?
>b-b-but the manga
No. I fucking hate secondaries, when are you going to get lost already?

>>19363446
I mean yeah, I never said he has an anything goes policy with them. Of course he'll say not occasionally. Ive made it very clear that he still keeps some control with Tasofro, simply not as much as with the print work. Anon this isnt hard too understand and I dont know how youve still managed to miss the point.
I also never said the fighters are not canon. I said that how seriously one should take the VS quotes is questionable since they are not written by ZUN himself and we dont know how closely he actually looks at those. This is also coupled with the fact that VS quotes are traditionally just fun banter. You seem too be completely missing the point when I say that he just isnt as strict with the fighters when it comes too whats allowed. If there are any slip ups that actually do break canon ZUN surely does say something about it, but this is not what im talking about. The specific matter im speaking on is how VS quotes are probably not the best way too back up claims and theory's because of their questionable nature. Thats all. Other than my point that ZUN give more creative control with Tasofro than with his manga artists, which I feel is indisputably true.

>>19364321
>If there are any slip ups that actually do break canon ZUN surely does say something about it
Which means the fighting game dialogue is objectively canon because ZUN never said anything about it thus it ended up in the game to begin with.

For how much longer are you going to embarrass yourself? You're arguing against your own points now. Just admit you were wrong and get lost.

>>19364439
I never said the dialogue isnt canon, I said that it shouldnt be taken too seriously given the circumstance around them. What is hard too understand about that. When he looks at everything he likely just looks for massive fuckups and isn't too worried about the specifics. Alot of things in the fighting games are things that Tasofro came up with, not ZUN. This not doubt extends at least too the VS dialogue. ZUN is more laidback with them, therefore he is more likely too give something a pass even if it isnt 100% what he would personally write. Rejecting everything would also cut into development time significantly and ZUN is certainly very mindful of that. As long as it isnt so vastly out of character and and doesnt break any significant established canon rules, ZUN is likely too say "Yeah sure thats fine". Its is still not written by him and its a VS mode script of all things, which is the least important dialogue in the game and by its very nature its questionable of how truly canon it is. Since he isnt as strict with them and because we dont know how closely he even looks at some of this stuff I just dont think using VS quotes helps when trying too support a theory/claim.

>>19364610
>I never said the dialogue isnt canon, I said that it shouldn't be taken as such because muh no zun writing it even though you know, i know and it has been demostrated and admitted that zun still looks it over and has editing rights and final approval over the content that he allows to be associated to what's ultimately his intellectual property
To the people saying secondaries aren't the problem: Why?
Also get lost.

>>19364872
You really have no idea how creative freedom and flexibility work do you? God damn. Yes its canon and I never said otherwise. I never it shouldn't be taken as such I said it should be looked at with a little bit of scrutiny. ZUN may look at it and give approval but he also demonstrates that he wants to give Tasofro a fair bit of leeway when it comes too the creative direction of thier games, which no doubt extends too dialogue. ZUN gave approval and so I agree its canon, however the actual dialogue was not written specifically by him and in an environment where he doesnt want too be a hard ass its understandable too not necessarily want too take VS mode bants super seriously and use it as the basis for a theory or claim.
Also please stop paraphrasing because it doesn't actually address the points im making and youre shoving words in m mouth. Also its cute that you call people you disagree with secondaries. Ignore the fact I clearly have the knowledge on the matter and we simply disagree on the fundamentals. An actual discussion would be nice anon.

>>19364974
>Yes its canon
No
fucking
shit.
You're the one saying it shouldn't be considered as such.

I'll give you credit though, your retard act is mighty impressive, you must have practiced a lot. Uh, it -is- an act, right?

>>19365036
Actually read what I wrote and you will see that at no point I said they aren't canon. Literally point out one instance, a direct quote, where I flat out said they aren't canon. I didn't. Ive been saying that the actual canonocity could be considered questionable but that they shouldn't be completely ignored. Overall, they just arent good for basing theory's and claims on or supporting them.

>>19365271
>Literally point out one instance, a direct quote, where I flat out said they aren't canon.
Okay.
>>19365271
>Ive been saying that the actual canonocity could be considered questionable

>>19363446
>b-b-but the manga
You mean literal canon material written by ZUN personally? At least learn what a secondary is before trying to LARP as something you are not. Or better yet, take your fucking pills, retardo.

>>19365404
Fucking lol. Dude, there is a difference between saying something in flat out not canon and saying that its canonocity can be considered questionable. They literally are not the same thing.

>>19365425
>You mean literal canon material written by ZUN personally?
Speaking of retardos, you're not following this conversation at all.

>>19365431
>i question whether this piece is canon
>h-h-haha what do you m-m-mean i'm not trying to i-i-imply it's n-n-not canon even though t-t-that's the literal meaning of the s-s-sentence i just said hah-h
What the fuck are you doing now?

>>19365509
No need too be so hostile dude.
And yes thats how that works. You can still consider something canon even if you feel that its legitimacy can be debated. The matter is not exactly black and white.

>>19339737
>>19340277
What is /jp/'s opinion on Izumi Takemoto?

>>19365559
More of a literal who than ZUN and all of ZUN's manga authors.

>>19365586
Literally whos can write good manga. Is Izumi Takemoto ones of those who do?

>>19365559
He just writes fantasy slice of life. It's nothing special, but his art impacted manga and anime forever. Not many people realize that.

>>19365538
That isn't what the argument was about at all you fucking knob end. Or am I supposed to take it as you conceding the point?

>>19365637
How do you figure? The whole argument was mainly about the canonocity of VS quotes, and me trying too get across how and why their overall canonocity can be considered questionable.
If youre going too fire back with what your wrote in >>19365509 (another elegant paraphrasing that misses the point and shoves words in my mouth) then yes I need too reply with a proper response. It was perfectly in line with the argument.

>>19365694
>How do you figure?
"disregarding canon is fine, it's canon after all LOL" =/= "vs quotes aren't canon because uuhhhhh yeah"

>>19365741
I never said disregarding canon is fine, and I gave very concise reasons as to why VS quotes in particular can be considered of questionable canonocity.
When I say "You can still consider something canon even if you feel that its legitimacy can be debated" it couldn't be any more clear I was talking about about the VS quotes. You can still consider them canon, but for the very reasons ive been explaining their is enough of a basis too go the other way in the argument and not necessarily be wrong. Going back too my overall point, this all makes trying too pull from VS quotes for theory's and claims paper thin at most.

>>19365824
>I never said disregarding canon is fine
Then you must be on the wrong side of this argument considering your entire platform has been "let's disregard canon".
>theory's
That'd actually explain a lot if you were a shitty ESL.

>>19365871
No, that is not my platform if you were paying attention. My whole point is that VS quotes in particular are of questionable canonocity (dont know how many more times I need too repeat this) and gave reasons as too why that is. Im literally not saying disregard them, im saying too not take them so seriously especially in the context of this thread (which is supposed to be about trivia and theories). My particular stance is that VS mode quotes are canon but a bit of scrutiny should be exercised when they are brought up. This just seems sensible.

>>19365923
Your whole point is that a piece of canon needs to be disregarded because ???????????. I don't know which versus quote pissed on your cereal, but those quotes are as canon as anything else in an official Touhou product.

>>19365975
Again, I literally never said they need too be disregarded. Im still waiting for that quote where I flat out say that you should absolutely not consider them canon.
Also I suppose I need too reiterate because you actually didn't read anything I wrote.
Point 1: ZUN doesnt write the fighting game dialogue and this includes the VS script. While he does still look over everything too our knowledge we know for a fact he is more lenient with what he lets Tasofro get away with compared too his artists for the manga. Because they are given more creative freedom, which no doubt extends too the dialogue, there is some stuff that may not exactly be what ZUN would have had in mind and written. We also dont know how thorough he exactly is when looking over the VS script since its far less important than other aspects of the game.
Point 2: I hit on this a little less but its important too keep in mind that the VS script is just bants between characters and by its very nature isnt exactly serious. This also coupled with the fact that we dont even know for a fact that the VS fights even actually happen.
This all being said, its safe too say they are canon for the most part but if someone wants too argue the contrary given what I pointed out then I see no problem with that since its canonocity is flimsy. Therefore, trying too actually have theories and stuff that uses them as a basis or supporting argument isnt exactly good.
Sometimes Touhou just has shit that you are right too scrutinize in terms of just how canon it is. Fans have historically had this attitude for Inaba of the Moon and Inaba of the Earth for example.

>>19365975
>>19366084
Think that some parts can be considered canon while other are not. What is made by ZUN is the only canon, everything else such as sprites and text that is written not by ZUN is not canon.

>>19366084
>we know for a fact he is more lenient with what he lets Tasofro get away with
Like how he let Tasofro have their Aya/Momiji dual attack. Oh wait.
I guess you must love being called a retard.

>>19366139
Good to know none of the manga are canon since ZUN drew none of it. Now you can justify continuing to be a secondary by not reading them!

>>19366139
Ive made my points pretty clear on why the VS mode script is questionably canon. Just like Inaba of the Moon and Inaba of the Earth is questionably canon for its own reasons. When it comes too Touhou some things are simply like that. Again, I never said they arent canon but could reasonably be considered as such if you want too take that route (for the exact reasons I mentioned).

>>19366213
I specifically said this before, but being more lenient and offering more creative freedom doesnt equal total freedom, and he will still shoot some things down if he really feels the need too. With this example in particular (the only one youve given) it makes sense since they are enemies and the fandom had already misinterpreted their actual relationship. ZUN didnt want too deepen the confusion so this is a great example of an idea Tasofro had that he just didnt want too roll with. Overall though he is still willing too compromise way more with Tasofro because its their game and collaborations are generally a collaborative effort. Its almost like I specifically said before that he likely only gives the thumbs down if its something that is vastly incorrect and inconsistent with what is already canon.
I would also like too point out that using the combo attack as example is really bad because we are specifically talking about the VS script, not attacks/spell cards.

>>19366285
Yes, ZUN will shoot things down if they don't fit his vision of Touhou. He didn't shoot down the versus quotes. We've motherfucking gone over this already.
And "really bad example" my ass, it's the same shit. Particularly because they're both canon no matter how bootyblasted you are that they violate your headcanons.

ZUN in an interview for a game called Bujingai, a game by Taito.
(ZUN did work on menus, effects etc.)
http://www.bujingai.com/text/interview07.html

ZUN in an interview for a game called Bujingai, a game by Taito.
(ZUN did work on menus, effects etc.)
http://www.bujingai.com/text/interview07.html

>>19366337
Alright so let me dissect this

>Yes, ZUN will shoot things down if they don't fit his vision of Touhou
Yes and no. When it come too Tasofro's game they also have their vision as well, which is why I use the word compromise. As I said he will let them have the freedom they want but will still put his foot down if something is seriously wrong. Alot of whats in the fighting games is their idea's that ZUN simply agreed too and not something he carefully put together himself. He isnt going too be super strict with what is someone else's game so he gives some leeway.

>He didn't shoot down the versus quotes
correct, but thats because there was either A: nothing substantially wrong with them or B: he didnt actually take too big of a look at them. We dont know for sure how strict he is with the writing in the fighting games and if he actually even gives much of a shit about VS quotes.

>We've motherfucking gone over this already
We've been over alot friend, but still cant seem too find common ground.

>And "really bad example" my ass, it's the same shit.
It is not. An attack animation that you will see every time you use the character that misrepresents an already misunderstood relationship is not the same as a win quote from VS matches that may or may not even happen in canon.

>Particularly because they're both canon no matter how bootyblasted you are that they violate your headcanons
As ive been saying, I agree that the quotes are canon. I just see them more as flimsy canon. I would not fault anyone for arguing the contrary and specifically said they are not good for substantiating claims. In other words, ive been saying that supporting any type of theory or headcanon with them is not good. Ive never even said anything about a supposed personal headcanon that is supposedly violated by the quotes so I have no clue where youre getting that from.

Youre breaking my heart anon.

>>19366440
>Alot of whats in the fighting games is their idea's that ZUN simply agreed too
And why do you think he agreed to that, anon? You think he agreed to have it in the game because it misrepresented the Gensokyo he wants people to see?

I don't care about the hearts of secondaries so you can fuck off with that shit. In fact, you can fuck off in general.

>>19366485
This again goes back too the point of him giving them a degree of creative freedom. We can assert that nothing in the fighting games misrepresents what Touhou is supposed too be in any significant way, but my point is that they are not ZUN's ideas. Its stuff that is not out of the mind of ZUN but rather the guys over at Tasofro, and their are no doubts that plenty of things exist that ZUN would never have come up with and so what we get are things that he looked at and said "seems good". Now this is fine and why nobody really disputes the actual canonocity of the fighting games. This argument was about the VS script however because its in a special place in terms of canon. Even if we toss out the fact that ZUN didnt write it and we have no clue how strict or not strict he is with the writing and closely he checks it, we also cannot confirm the fights actually happen as I said because they are not part of the story.

>I don't care about the hearts of secondaries so you can fuck off with that shit. In fact, you can fuck off in general
I never mentioned secondaries did I? I suppose you could extrapolate that from what I was saying about making theories and headcannons, but why are you even in this thread if you hate that? Also people who actually do that are not secondaries by any stretch unless they just dont care at all about the canon. Most fans who have their own idea and theories are just as much fans as we are, but like too put their own creative spin on things. This was talked about way back in the thread, but the point stands that fan creativity and the passion they put in the own ideas and works is a very core part of Touhou as well. Now before you lose you shit keep in mind that what we are talking about regarding the actual canonocity of the VS script is separate from this point here. Canon and Fanon are obviously separate entities and most fans can make this distinction no probelm. Also when im talking about the VS script being not great for making theories and claims it should be noted that im talking about when its being spoken about in the sense of whats canon. This is different than if someone was too make a doujin inspired by one of those quotes or something along those lines.

>>19366213
>Good to know none of the manga are canon since ZUN drew none of it.
You missed my point. The artwork in manga is done by other people, ZUN does the writing. Art is not canon, unless stated by ZUN in the script, such as Kasen mentioning that Tenshi is a child, even though people thought she was an adult based on SWR art. People thought Okina was a loli based on Azuma Aya's fanart, but in canon she is an adult because ZUN said so. ZUN is the only source of canon.

>>19366650
>We can assert that nothing in the fighting games misrepresents what Touhou is supposed too be in any significant way
Then what in the holy shit is your argument? You started by whining that versus scripts weren't written by ZUN so they're not trustworthy in the context of canon information (let's nevermind that as editor, ZUN would have had to read those lines and approve them regardless), but now and for the last few posts, you're saying the fighting games are totally legit. While somehow still arguing that they aren't because ZUN didn't write that dialogue. You're an idiot and you don't know what you're talking about but you're fancing yourself as some sort of knowledgeable Touhou person (one that disregards canon information, no less). You're a new breed of secondary, congrats.

>>19366702
Oh, I see. Good to know none of the manga are canon since ZUN drew none of it. Now you can justify continuing to be a secondary by not reading them!

>>19366728
Not him but the story is still done by ZUN. You sound mad that most characters are not lolis.

>>19366771
You make it sound like that wouldn't be a massive improvement.
But at least I can accept that most character aren't and won't be lolis, unlike the asshat here that can't comprehend the concept of canon versus dialogue.

>>19366702
As much as I dont want too back him up on this the manga art is in fact perfectly canon. Aside from the writing ZUN also closely instructs what should be going on in each panel and carefully proofreads them. Nobody thought that Azuma Aya's Okina was too loli because it never saw the light of day. It was in the drafting process ZUN told her too woman up Okina, not after that fact.

>>19366728
Damn son.
>Then what in the holy shit is your argument?
Literally everything that I just explained. Since youre still confused please refer back too >>19366084 when I gave my specific points on the matter.

>You started by whining that versus scripts weren't written by ZUN so they're not trustworthy in the context of canon information
Is that what you call whining? Because im simply making a point. I will need too point out once again that ive never said its 100% untrustworthy, only that you should apply some scrutiny when using them too make canon related arguments for the reasons that I gave in >>19366084

>let's nevermind that as editor, ZUN would have had to read those lines and approve them regardless
Again, ignoring the fact that ive also brought up that we have no evidence that the VS fights even happen and that even though he's the editor ive clearly gotten my point across that ZUN isnt a hardass when it comes too the boys over at Tasofro and he gives them a fair amount of freedom. As a result he would likely only look for massive mistakes.

> but now and for the last few posts, you're saying the fighting games are totally legit.
Did I ever say they werent? Again, this is all about the VS script and not the Story script.

>While somehow still arguing that they aren't because ZUN didn't write that dialogue.
Once more, ive never said they arent. Ive said that the VS script is flimsy in the sense of canon

>You're an idiot and you don't know what you're talking about but you're fancing yourself as some sort of knowledgeable Touhou person
I clearly know what im talking about, you just dont agree with me. And yeah I do fancy myself too know a fair bit about the series.

>one that disregards canon information, no less
Lad, ive said so many times that the VS quotes shouldnt be merely disregarded. Only that you shouldn't take them too seriously

>You're a new breed of secondary
Again, throwing that word around like a dog toy. This is exactly the reason that its pretty much lost any weight around here.

>>19366869
>Literally everything that I just explained.
That the versus chat is both canon and non-canon because reasons. I don't think even you know what you're arguing at this point.

I don't see why I shouldn't be using the word secondary like a dog toy considering you're a fucking bitch.

>>19366924
I again specifically gave reasons in >>19366084. I simply cannot break it down any further. My point is pretty concise if you ask me.

Cmon man, you really dont need too be so hostile. If anything id like too have a civil discussion but its hard with that kind of attitude. Just take it easy dude.

>>19366961
Your point is shit. Again, you're arguing that only what ZUN writes is canon and for that reason vs dialogue isn't canon even though he still has to oversee it and approve of it because Touhou is still his. And we know he does this because Tasofro mentioned an instance of disagreement because them and ZUN, with them having to relent as a result. There is
>NO
room for your stupid interpretation of events here, none at all. Only what comes from ZUN is canon? Fine. The scenario still came from ZUN and every bit of the game was given the greenlight by ZUN. Exactly like the manga, so don't go being a hypocrite now.

I don't respect secondaries, to me you're just an eyesore.

>>19367041
>you're arguing that only what ZUN writes is canon and for that reason vs dialogue isn't canon even though he still has to oversee it and approve of it because Touhou is still his
This is the problem, you keep disregarding the fact that I said its fine that ZUN didnt write it but its one of the reasons we shouldnt take it as seriously, as per the fact that Tasofro is given alot of freedom too work with and so he will be willing too compromise and wont sweat small details as much. You also keep blowing past my point that we have no evidence VS fights even happen though.

>And we know he does this because Tasofro mentioned an instance of disagreement because them and ZUN, with them having to relent as a result
Yes, an example that is very separate from the actual subject in question (the VS script). Ill say it again: an attack that you would see every time you play the character that misrepresents and already misunderstood relationship is a bigger deal than banter in VS mode for fights that may not even happen. This example is also a decade old, something more recent and more comparable would strengthen your argument considerably.

>Only what comes from ZUN is canon? Fine. The scenario still came from ZUN and every bit of the game was given the greenlight by ZUN
Technically yes. Special circumstance's apply though and too simply say only what ZUN makes is the only thing that matters is not an accurate representation of how the series works. The fighting games are particularly a special case because they are not technically his games and they are a collaboration with another doujin group. Yes he is credited with the scenario (which means he made the framework for the story and such) and yes he gave the greenlight too the ideas Tasofro came up with it. I never said otherwise and thats all part of the process of a collaboration game.

>Exactly like the manga, so don't go being a hypocrite now.
As ive said many times, they arent really comparable in a strict sense. The manga are specifically ZUN's and the fighting games are a collaboration with another group so compromise and creative freedom is important.

>I don't respect secondaries, to me you're just an eyesore
There he goes again. Anon this doesnt help one bit.

>>19367184
And you keep disregarding the fact that despite anything else, it has ZUN's approval. Why is this such a hard concept for you to understand?
>This example is also a decade old
Oh for fucks sake. Get lost.

>>19367252
Yes it has ZUN's approval by extension of the whole game having his approval but not that doesnt mean that the VS script is indisputably canon. Ive already given my reasons as too why that's the case. Its a VS script, and by its very nature is questionably canon. Let me reiterate that we dont even know these fights happen and dont know how much ZUN actually cares about the writing in this non story part of the game. And for reference, Inaba of the Moon and Inaba of the Earth also had ZUN's approval and yet that is universally considered iffy at best.

And yes, things change and people change alot in 10 years. In the specific context it might not mean a whole lot but its likely ZUN has become even more laid back with what he's willing too accept in the fighting games over the years. Especially if you cant give me any recent examples of things he's shot down.

Sure is trivia around here.

>>19367281
>Yes it has ZUN's approval but it doesn't count because i don't feel like it
Oh this non-argument hasn't gotten old the first 30 times you used it in the last few hours.
>b-b-but the age of the example I SWEAR
That's not going to work.

>>19367284
Secondaries don't even know what a danmaku is, I don't know what you were expecting.

>>19367382
Alright so let me point out again that paraphrasing and misrepresenting what I said does not actually make you right.

>Yes it has ZUN's approval but it doesn't count because i don't feel like it
What I actually said was
>Yes it has ZUN's approval by extension of the whole game having his approval but not that doesnt mean that the VS script is indisputably canon. Ive already given my reasons as too why that's the case
This refers back too >>19366084 yet again when I made my case about this.

>>b-b-but the age of the example I SWEAR
What I actually said was
>And yes, things change and people change alot in 10 years. In the specific context it might not mean a whole lot but its likely ZUN has become even more laid back with what he's willing too accept in the fighting games over the years. Especially if you cant give me any recent examples of things he's shot down.
Yet again, ive explained why other than being like a decade old this example is a poor one:
>An attack animation that you will see every time you use the character that misrepresents an already misunderstood relationship is not the same as a win quote from VS matches that may or may not even happen in canon

>>19367382
>muh secondaries
Anyone can watch a lets play faggot, the game isn't important.

>>19367406
Top tier bait
Here's your (you)

>>19367284
Miko's interface in Hopeless Masquerade is gaijin 4koma meme.

>>19367382
> I don't know what you were expecting.
I was expecting you to start ignoring them.

>>19345669
mangafags

thanks for participating in my thread guys!
it may have gone down the pooper but it was my most successful thread of all time