/jp/ - Otaku Culture

it's shit

>>1913900
So don't bother, got it.

We all knew all of that shit by the time UBW was out, and yet we all played HF.

A better question would be, "if F/sn wasn't spoiled for me, would it be any better?"
The answer would probably be no.

>even the truth about Avenger

Wait, that was a secret?

But hey, it's still pretty worth it.
Some scenes just run on badass factor. (See: [So as I pray, "Unlimited Blade Works"])

Just do it, you little mongrel.

I wouldn't suggest actually paying for it, but I doubt you were planning on that anyway.

>>1913924
>Wait, that was a secret?

Well, "Avenger" as it was introduced as a class (I forget if it was by Tohsaka or Caster) just describes an anti-hero.

Of course you should pick up and play it, just to play one of the great all time visual novels.

Just play it, it's still pretty fun. Also, if you practice, you can push memories to the back of your mind, and enjoy the VN better.

Yes, it's worth picking up. It's not like Ever17 or some shitty Shyamalan movie where basically the whole fucking thing is ruined if you read all the spoilers.

>>1913951

Seconding.
Excellent way to put it, good sir.

>>1913941
I can attest to the memory thing; I've used it to block out spoilers for everything from Saya no Uta to Trigun.

>>1913951
Shyamalan movies are ruined from the start.

Still worth playing and replaying afterwards. It's one of those things with scenes that just get more awesome when you know they're coming.

SHIROU IS THE KILLER

>>1914182
lol

Nasu games don't really rely on "omg what a twist!" When I played Tsukhime I knew nothing about the game, not even that it had vampires, whereas with F/SN I knew just about everything beforehand. I still enjoyed them both almost equally, although I think I like Tsukhime a little bit more. Nothing is ever revealed in a shocking turn of events, usually things are hinted at for a long time. For example one of the few F/SN parts I hadn't been spoiled on was Arhcer's identity, and even that I was able to figure out by myself early on in UBW.

Anything that isn't worth reading just because of spoilers wasn't very good to begin with, except for things like mystery novels, so you should still play F/SN.

'Tis the journey thats important, not the destination.

>>1914885
>mystery novels

>Kotomine
>with the key
>in bazette's room

FSN is shit. Play Tsukihime again.

>>1914922
Listen to this unimaginably beautiful woman.

>>1914885

I remember when I first played Tsukihime I knew about the vampires, but assumed it would be more sucky shit about generic vampires, I hated everything I saw from Arc, thought Shiki was interesting and wanted to see more of the shit about him get expanded on.

Then Nero attacked the hotel, and I went on the Nasu-rollercoaster and I've not got off.

I had all (or rather most) of FSN spoiled, but I've recently started playing it and I still find it to be great.

>>1914911

He is right, the Fate series is all about the journey, not the destination.

Hell, honestly if I didn't know Shirou was going to get a LOT better by the endgame I'd of dropped the series before summoning Saber due to his horrible, horrible ways.

>>1914922
>>1914930

FSN fails because of Shirou. He was nothing but a faggot rapist with no morals at all. It's also quite retarded that his abilty is the most powerful/useful in something like a Grail War. Lol plot power.

>>1914974
>Tsukihime fails because of Shiki. He was nothing but a faggot rapist with no morals at all. It's also quite retarded that his abilty is the most powerful/useful in something like a Vampire attack. Lol plot power.
fix'd.

silly obvious troll, shirous power is near useless in the grail war.

>>1914922
>play

>>1914981

-Shirou and Saber killed Berserker due to plot power of UBW
-Shirou countered Gate of Babylon due to the plot power of UBW
Shirou had the right tools to save Sakura due to the plot power of UBW

Not so useless are we?

>>1914943 Then Nero attacked the hotel, and I went on the Nasu-rollercoaster and I've not got off.

Well, it's not like Nero was very original...

>>1915026

>>1915027

>>1915035

>>1915013
compared to shiki hax? sure as hell he is useless.
-Alone, Shiki kills Nrvnqsr in his strongest form
-Alone, Shiki destroys Arcueid's body
-Alone, Shiki kills Roa
-Alone, Shiki kills SHIKI

>>1915026
It's more of a homage then. I mean, look at Gilgamesh. His design is obviously a shoutout to Gil from Tower of Druaga.

>>1914974
>>1915013

Saber's the one who defeated Berserker. Shirou explicitly notes the power to fight leaves him after successfully tracing Caliburn.

It's explicit that UBW is the ONLY thing that would defeat Gilgamesh, and SOLELY because GILGAMESH IS NOT A SKILLED FIGHTER. Gilgamesh is just a SPAMWHORE, and the only way to win is COUNTERSPAM which is what UBW is.
Through luck and the causality-breaking knowledge of HIS OWN PERFECTED TECHNIQUE is how he managed to beat Gilgamesh with pure speed and skill.

I don't know and don't care about HF.

>>1915043

The only thing Shiki did was kill stuff. Unlike Shirou's plot powered UBW that seems to have everything needed for every situation. Also, dont be so butthurt over your precious Shirou.

>>1915043
>>-Alone, Shiki kills Nrvnqsr in his strongest form

Nrvnqsr honestly wanted to die.

>>-Alone, Shiki destroys Arcueid's body

Arcueid got caught by surprise.

>>-Alone, Shiki kills Roa

Roa got caught by surprise AND freaked the fuck out when he realized exactly what was going on before finally getting serious (after he was already dead, lol) and nearly killing Shiki before Ciel hit him with her crucifixion-class Black Keys. This guy is way, way, way fucking weaker than Nrvnqsr, by the way, and the only difference is that he wanted to live.

>>-Alone, Shiki kills SHIKI

>>1915063
>Saber's the one who defeated Berserker. Shirou explicitly notes the power to fight leaves him after successfully tracing Caliburn.

Shirou created the sword that defeated Berserker. Without UBW hax, they would've died then.

>It's explicit that UBW is the ONLY thing that would defeat Gilgamesh, and SOLELY because GILGAMESH IS NOT A SKILLED FIGHTER. Gilgamesh is just a SPAMWHORE, and the only way to win is COUNTERSPAM which is what UBW is.

Like i said, lol plot power.

>I don't know and don't care about HF.

Still the same shit. Shirou has the tools to get everything done. Even Rin and Illya didnt know how to save Sakura.

>>1915013 Shirou had the right tools to save Sakura due to the plot power of UBW

Shirou got his ass saved countless times and Saber was corrupted because of it, beat a weak version of Berserker, killed Saber Alter with Rider's help, and got the shit beat out of him by Kotomine. In the end, he manages to trace one last thing to destroy the grail and dies.

>>1913886
Those actually aren't much of spoilers, it's not like servants' true names have as big of an effect in F/SN like F/Z does. Sakura thing is kind of big for the third route, but I never gave crap about HF route. Avenger only comes out in F/HA, and the truth about him doesn't take anything from the story.

Basically, play it.

>>1915061
What exactly defines a homage? At what point is it a rip-off?

I don't really care, but Nero is a disgustingly unoriginal character. It was a cool fight, though.

>>1915082

>Shirou created the sword that defeated Berserker. Without UBW hax, they would've died then.

And without Saber, they would've died then.
And without Tohsaka, they would've died then.
Hell, without ARCHER they probably would've died then.
Nasu's writing is chock full of Deusa ex Machinae.

>Like i said, lol plot power.

Explained plot power, though.

>>1915085

That doesnt contradict what i've stated. Also, Shirou defeated Black Saber alone, without Rider's help.

>>1915099

>And without Saber, they would've died then.
And without Tohsaka, they would've died then.
Hell, without ARCHER they probably would've died then.
Nasu's writing is chock full of Deusa ex Machinae.

>Explained plot power, though.

I dunno lol. Suddenly a useless character gains a power that's so useful, he could practically have all the abilities of the weapons of these very rare, powerful servants in this once in a lifetime event. Looks like plot power to me.

Shiki has eyes and blood of plot power. Enjoy your shitty shounen protagonists.

>>1915112

>Suddenly a useless character gains a power that's so useful it nearly makes his body rupture every time he uses it.

A better complaint about Shirou being plothaxed would be LOL AVALON IN MY FUCKING SKIN

>>1915117

Butthurt

>>1915112
You're comparing it to a character that can kill virtually anything with a fruit knife.

Who also has a random FULLY TRAINED SUPERHUMAN ASSASSIN side that comes out when he fights or senses anything other than human (I sure bet he'll fight a lot of humans in his story!)

http://www.IHateJasmine.com/?id=irvqqcnyh07s8xc8g9yatymejfb9l

>>1915112
Actually, I think it's because he was using Archer's arm that he was able to whip out something so completely beyond his own level. Fate showed it rather clearly that he was incapable of properly controlling the power behind the weapons he projected, and in UBW all he did was swing them around.

I might be stabbing in the dark here, but I think being granted power from the World is what enhanced his abilities to the point of being able to reproduce strength and in-depth abilities of weapons in terms of being able to use them like he did when using Nine Lives Blade Works. In other words, it might be something Archer could do because of being given power - not something Shirou could achieve on his own. Namely because Shirou is like Gil - just an owner, and someone who doesn't have the skill to use his weapons to their full potential. Archer, on the other hand, just might be able to go beyond that, as it's projection beyond Shirou's limits.

I like both Fate/Stay Night and Tsukihime

>>1915128

At least it was intergrated early on in the story, and was used as what defines Shiki unlike Shirou's LOLOLOLOL I CAN TRACE NOBLE PHANTASMS THAT SERVANTS USE BECAUSE OF SOME SORT OF SHIT

>>1915142
Actually, he can trace swords. And sometimes halberds and axes but at a higher cost. If a Servant is wielding something besides that, he can't trace it. It's specifically stated that Shirou's main affinity is towards swords, which is why he can reproduce them so efficiently.

And it's also explained WHY he can do it too. It's because of his state of mind from the trauma during the fire.

>>1915131

The point is, he has something for those certain situations. I dont mind characters being overpowered but having everything handed to you is really shitty.

>>1915164

Plot power. UBW doesnt define Shirou's character. It was just some power that allows him to win.

>>1915169
>having everything handed to you
Shirou spent nearly ten years working every day until near death to achieve something like this.

Shiki simply had an accident to get godhax.

>>1915176
>working every day

Working out and practicing Enhancement. Not Tracing.

>>1915169
And having magical eyes that let you one-shot everything just cause you got hit by a car isn't having it handed to you? Shirou can do what he does because of the fire when Kotomine wished on the Grail. The trauma of the fire effectively 'burned away' any sense of self-preservation, any sense of self-anything, within him. There are several occasions of him using terms of phrase like "If my body can't move, I'll use the parts of me that still can," or "the parts of me that I haven't used yet." Those aren't just him rambling, that's him almost quite literally substituting his own body and 'self' in exchange for his projections. Self-sacrifice has always been the major trait associated with Shirou, namely as it's the wellspring and foundation of his power altogether. His unfathomably disregard for himself for the sake of others is considered 'unnatural' and acts as the substitute for his lack of magical capacity.

>>1915174
>UBW doesnt define Shirou's character.

Uh.. yes it does? It's a reflection of himself. It's also a goddamned miracle that only a rare few are capable of producing, and it takes them a shitload of magical energy to pull it off. Shirou can do it with less than them because he substitutes his own self in exchange for his lack of magical energy - something only he can do because of the kind of person he is.

>>1915142
>>1915174

Unlimited Blade Works doesn't even really exist.
A more logical argument would be "How, where, when, why, etc. did Shirou get a Reality Marble?"
UBW as it is is Shirou's mind reflected upon the world. Shirou likens himself to a sword, and his magical orientation are to swords. UBW takes the form of infinite ownerless swords, because it reflects Shirou's self.
It's a Reality Marble. It's the self-written plothax of the Nasuverse.

>>1915192

Shiki, by birth was already someone special. Someone "normal" like Shirou having the power to fight Servants and actually winning is plot powered. Also, Shiki paid with is life.

>>1915203

>Someone "normal" like Shirou

Yeah, having a FUCKING REALITY MARBLE and THE FUCKING SHEATH OF EXCALIBUR inside of you makes you a normal person.

>>1915203
>Someone "normal" like Shirou having the power to fight Servants and actually winning is plot powered.

Except Shirou isn't 'normal' by a long shot. He's considered an anomaly even by other magi because of his unnatural lack of self-preservation.

>Also, Shiki paid with is life.
And? There are just as many events of Shirou paying with his life for his own abilities. Stop pandering to just one side simply because you dislike a character.

>>1915201
>goddamned miracle

Exactly. And here we see Mister Normal Magus Shirou actually realizing one without paying something equal in return. Nero got his through study, Sacchin got hers when she died lol.

>>1915215
Did you even read the full post before jumping on that one? He pays using his own body as a substitute.

What exactly is a Reality Marble? Sounds kind of lame for a super power.

>>1915212

Let me correct that, Shirou was actually shit, he's ok for a normal human and shit as a magus. Having a RM is actually a proof of my point that Shirou is plot powered. Avalon only heals him.

>>1915221
>realizing his RM
>pays using his own body
>use


Did you even read the full post before jumping on that one?

Realizing =/= Using

>>1915225
Whatever. You're obviously just digging your heels in just for the sake of shrieking "SHIROU IS SHIT I LOVE SHIKI MORE!" rather than having an actual discussion as to how and why. So far we've been giving actual reasoning as to the cause behind Shirou having a Reality Marble and how, and all you do is reply with "lolplotpowered derp derp"

>>1915220

Shirou paid with is body, he never really died. Also, dont be so butthurt.

>>1915237

I like both Shiki and Shirou.

You can like both, gentlemen.

>>1915224

The ability to make your mind and thoughts into a real world, where your soul is given form.

It's a forbidden magic due to the fact that Gaia hates contradictions, and nothing's a bigger contradiction than two realities coexisting.

All the cool people have one.
(Nrvnqsr, Wallachia, and Arcueid to name a few.)

>>1915253

>Gaia hates contradictions

Why does the planet have feelings?

>>1915128

>>FULLY TRAINED SUPERHUMAN ASSASSIN side that comes out when he fights or senses anything other than human

Nope. Nanaya blood only activates automatically with demon-blooded characters like SHIKI and Akiha. For Nrvnqsr and Roa, he needs to be spurred to protect someone he cares for before the Nanaya skills take control. The first time he saw Arcueid with all the I CUT HER IN SEVENTEEN PIECES AND CAME TWICE IN THE PROCESS was Roa. Any time sexual desire is mixed with the gore, it's usually Roa and sometimes SHIKI. If it's just plain "kill," and it says that "kill" is the only thing going through Shiki's mind, then it's Nanaya.

The Nanaya in Kagetsu Tohya and Melty Blood is what Shiki would have become if he'd never had his family slaughtered by the Tohno. Nanaya is a Shiki that never realized what an important thing life is, and that's why he lacks the MEoDP. He's a cold blooded assassin that enjoys the task of killing inhuman things against his father's last wish.

>>1915236
So, what, your logic is that him learning to realize a miracle after seing it done by his future self - who most likely realized it after being given a boost from the World anyway (speculation there; nobody knows how Archer managed to manifest it, but since it's said he asked for a miracle, it's entirely possible that the Reality Marble was that miracle).

In other words, it had been sitting within him the entire time, and he simply did not understand it or know how to bring it forth. The events of UBW grant him the magical energy required, and the knowledge, to realize the miracle on his own, and even then it's different from Archer's in a few ways. Outside of the UBW route, he is never capable of making the Reality Marble happen.

>>1915246

Again, that's due to motherfucking Avalon. He "died" 3 fucking times in the first fucking day.

>>1915255

Why wouldn't it?

>>1915263

Near death = Dead

Lo and behold, Avalon hax

>>1915255
Ignorant people like you are why discrimination is such a problem in our society.

>>1915246
You do realize that Avalon was the only reason he didn't turn into a cripple after projecting Archer's twin blades, right?

>>1915274
Actually, he physically died and was brought back by the sheath. Berserker tore his fucking abdomen out with one blow.

>>1915274

No, he died.

People die when they are killed, remember?

He died. Three times. And he was revived. Three times.

>>1915270

That's why i said body.

>>1915280

He was still alive.

>>1915282

Shirou was killed but did not die. Hence "People die when they're killed".

>>1915263

>Why wouldn't it

Why would it?

>>1915282

>>1915295

Because it's magic.

>>1915288

If he was only on the brink of death and never actually died then why doesn't he have the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception?

>>1915260
The Nanaya Nightmare in KT and Meltan is both reality and fiction. He probably does remember a bit of what it was to be "Nanaya" Shiki and remembers his training in full, but he is also a being completely unbent from the rules of reality. He's a nightmarish creature that Shiki imagines he could fall into being: his own killer side twisted and torn into something inhuman.

The real Nanaya clan members didn't give a shit about normal humans unless they were obstacles, and most of them didn't devolve into pleasure killers. The Nanaya Nightmare loves killing, though, of even normal people. That's something Shiki would never enjoy, but he's afraid he would if he did it enough, and that fear is born of his misunderstanding of his own fundamental nature.

Also, the Nightmare Nanaya was created as a sort of self-destruction: a self which kills and is intent on killing itself. It was created to be HIS killer... his own shame, self-loathing, and regret given form to tear himself apart.

>>1915299

Why is ORT from Mercury?

>>1915303

Mercury is magic too.

>>1915304

Shiki died then Akiha revived him.

>>1915304
He didn't have eyes which could see unnatural things to begin with or a body which could be possessed by the unbound consciousness of Akasha itself.

BUT GUYS SHIKI CAN'T UNDERSTAND INFINITE SWORDS SO HIS HEAD WOULD POP AND SHIROU WOULD WIN

GUYS

>>1915288
He was still alive.. after having most of his major organs ripped out by a huge chunk of rock and splattered all over the pavement. His lungs were no doubt taking out too based on the impact Berserker is capable of imposing with a single hit.

Something that would result in death within mere seconds if not instantly. But you say he was 'near death'? 'Near death' means that there's something you could do at that point to save him. Without Avalon, what were you expecting to do, exactly? Scoop up the mangled, splattered guts in a slushie cup and pour them back into the gaping hole that was his abdomen, then duct tape it shut, pat him on the head and say "All fixed now."?

>>1915313
Find Nero, beat him until chaos falls out, and then use a mud spade to patch him up.

If Shirou did actually die they state that the connection with saber would be broken and the sheath could no longer bring him back.

>>1915310
Shirou died for a few moments too before Kiritsugu revived him with Avalon. He was literally on the brink of unsavable.

>>1915313

Hey, this is a world where people dont die when they're killed. It sort of normal to survive near death situations. Heck, a handful of known characters were killed and yet didnt die.

>>1915325

Kiritsugi inserted Avalon before Shirou died you faggot.

>>1915319
Read my mind.
>>1915312
Shiki'd probably fry his own brain to "kill" everything shirou throws at him, kill shirou and become a plant. They'd both lose.

>>1915326
Except that wasn't a 'near death' situation. That was a 'dead' situation.

>>1915337
From Shirou's perspective, he was dead. Had probably stopped breathing and everything. Like I said, he was on the brink of being unrevivable, and Kiritsugu took a chance with Avalon. Hence why he was so grateful that Shirou survived. If Shirou had been safe and still alive when he was found, there would have been no need to stick Avalon in him.

>>1915313
Depends on if you'd say braindeath or heartdeath or both is required for "death". Sure he couldn't have recovered from it without Avalon but assuming the sheath prevents his condition from deteriorating at all immediately from the wound has been inflicted as he begins to be healed you'd have to cut his head off or destroy his heart to "kill" him and cut his link with Saber.

>>1915335

Everything can be solved with magic.

Shiki vs. Shirou:

Shiki is running down the street attempting to escape from all of the women who want to rape him. He encouters Shirou out in town attempting to buy meat for Saber. Sneaking up behind Shirou, he clubs him across the back of his head and then drags him into an alley.

He proceeds to dye Shirou's hair black, put a pair of fake glasses on him, exchange clothes, and put a sign on him that says "I am Shiki". He props him up against a wall outside the alley and then runs.

Shiki and Arihiko have ramen at their favorite shop. Shirou's fate is unknown, but it is likely he wouldn't understand what was happening to him, anyway.

>>1915343
I don't know about you, but I'm pretty sure plenty of Shirou's injuries include having his heart torn up. So provided that Avalon doesn't save him from braindeath, then it's possible to assume that he was almost entirely unkillable as long as Saber was nearby.

>>1915345
>probably
>probably

>>1915356
My guess would be that decapitation was the only way to kill him. Not that many of his enemies would have had trouble with that if they'd known about it.

>>1915026
>>1915027
>>1915035
>>1915037
What manga is this?

>>1915355

Thankfully Shirou can't die!

>>1915374
That was awesome, yet sad.

>>1915356
The only time he had his heart torn apart was by Lancer. Before Avalon was active.

You people are acting like Avalon gives Wolverine-like Regeneration, because it doesn't. While it can heal damages that aren't curable with modern medicine, it doesn't do so at a snap (depending on whether Saber exists and if there's a Contract).

>>1915419
Avalon kept him barely alive just long enough for Rin to heal him. Considering Gae Bolg has a curse, I'm guessing Avalon managed to counteract it, else Rin wouldn't be able to do shit when she got there. Or he'd be beyond repair by the time she did.

>>1915462
Rin made an entirely new heart, not heal the one that was stabbed by gay bulge.

>>1915462
The curse of Gae Bolg is that wounds caused by it will never heal though judging from Lancer's words he has to actually choose to use that power for the curse to take effect which it seems he didn't that time since a normal person won't recover from having his heart pierced by a spear. At the time Rin got there, except for the fact his heart was destroyed which she fixed by replacing it, he wouldn't have been beyond resuscitation even if he'd need some replacement blood as well.

>>1915555

>The curse of Gae Bolg is that wounds caused by it will never heal

No, the Curse of Gáe Bolg is that it will, without err, strike the heart of its foe.

The Curse of Gáe >Buidhe<, wielded by the Lancer of the FOURTH Holy Grail War, was that the wounds inflicted by it could never heal.

>>1915555
Lancer tells Saber that Shirou is done for in the church basement because Shirou's wound is unhealable. When Shirou and Saber get out they sit down and saber touches Avalon and Shirou is healed. Avalons 'heal all wounds' is far stronger than gae bolg's 'unhealable wounds'. A battle of concepts is shown again in the Lancer vs Archer fight where Gae Bolg slightly beats Rho Aias.

>>1915370

>>1915580

>saber touches Avalon

Is that Shirou's hot stick?

>>1915374
Source?

>>1915358
What's wrong with 'probably'? It's about as important and legitimate as 'plot powered because I said so'.

It's still worth picking fate up. Some crazy shit happens in Zero where Gil takes out a fuckin' Vimana and Berserker jumps into the JASDF's F-15 and dogfights with em.

>>1915606

>hot stick

Penis?

>>1915374
/r/ing source for this.

>>1915651
TRANSLATION WHEN?

Also,
>>1915608
seconding this.

>>1915608
Chronicles_of_an_infinite_ururun_pleasure_trip

>>1915651
Where do I get a higher-res version of this pic?

>>1915370
Majuu Sensen by Ken Ishikawa

>>1915693
THANK YOU.

>>1915681
There arent any...yet.
>>1915688
Ah, thanks.
Have some berzerker being awesome.

>>1915574
Ok, A curse of Gae Bolg (in F/SN at least, as stated by it's wielder) is that the wounds it caused will not heal rather than THE curse.

>>1915732

Well he was apparently exaggerating.

>>1915674
Translation? None, out currently of that scene I mentioned what happens is Caster is out rampaging through the town and Tokiomi sends out Gil to fight em' in a fuckin' flying machine Kariya finds out that Gilgamesh is fighting Caster and orders Berserker to attack Gilgamesh he realizes he can't attack something flying mad fast and goes to find the JASDF who are investigating the 'carpet bombing' and takes a plane from them (with a pilot inside of it) and makes it go so fast the pilot dies from just the acceleration of the dogfight let me tell you Gil was pissed when he seen the 'mad dog' get in a plane.

>>1915746
FUUUUUUUCK, this only makes me want to read it even more!

>>1915742
No he wasn't. It's a passive property of the spear.