/jp/ - Otaku Culture

>>1909488
Since it's all the evil that humans commit, it's possible that it is something that counter guardians face off every time they are summoned. Since it is their nature to clean up after humans make a huge mess of things.

No he isn't. True love is about more than the body. In his timeline, the hero Emiya loved Ilya as a person. What mattered was her personality, her soul, regardless of her stunted flesh or hopeless fate.

SO what IS the new novel about anyway? Can't be a redux of F/SN since it's already like a novel. Maybe it's the Illya path?

>>1909523
One alternative I can think of is the Third War, to give more details on Avenger and how the grail became corrupt.

That'd be pretty far along for a branch point, but it's actually not all that unlikely given that they were likely worried about time constraints, especially considering how close Ilya is to Shirou in the HF route.

set fail

I haven't finished HF yet. When does Archer ever interact with Illya?

>>1909552

He doesn't.

>>1909552
Pretty much all the information pertaining to ArcherxIlya is in untranslated material that was released in Japan after the game. Enjoy your grasping at straws from little pieces of translated material that comes with inane amounts of translator's own interpretations that may not be entirely valid.

>>1909574
Does anyone have the raws? I'll try to tranlsate them.....

>>1909523 Maybe it's the Illya path?
Yeah, and what next? A Sacchin path?
Don't be silly.

>>1909555
I don't know man, being inside her and all that.

>>1909606
There might be a Sacchin path if Tsukihime was more popular.

Ilya is Archer/Shirou's goddamn "sister." Stop confusing his love for her as something sexual.

You know what annoys me about Archer? The man never actually used UBW except when fighting Berserker.

>>1909669

>>1909669
Of course it's sexual. Archer is a lolicon after all.

set fail

>>1909669
Because nobody has sexual feelings for their non-blood-related sister in the Nasuverse.

>>1909611
Tsukihime is already one of the most popular visual novels. There might be a Sacchin route in the Tsukihime remake, but I wouldn't get my hopes up.

>>1909713
The remake was a lie. And F/SN is still more popular.

>>1909743
Yeah, outselling everything else during it's release year and being lauded as the best VN ever is slightly more than Tsukihime did.

>>1909846
Jesus, day 4? He must REALLY be a lolicon if he's acting that early when he wouldn't even do anything with Sakura.

>>1909833
How can you expect Tsukihime to outsell anything? They only printed out a small number of copies. It's not like Type-Moon was a commercial company at that point.

hey you quoted me in your OP, i feel so special now

>>1909861
It was the first thing I saw that seemed likely to draw attention.

>>1909857
It was mostly sarcasm, making fun of him saying F/SN is more popular like it means something about the quality of the game; on the other hand, it was also serious because after a certain level popularity really does say something about quality.

>>1909531

That is already explained, they broken the rules tried to summon Angra Mainyu and mistakenly ended up summon a random villager that was sacrificed as "all the evils of the world" so instead of getting the ultimate Servant they end up with the weakest servant and was killed early of the War.

And what happens to defected servants? they go to the Grail and that was what caused the taint.

There is no point to explain that because F S/N already does and F H/A goes even further explaining Avenger, F Zero simply expanded characters we heard about and briefly seen.

If anything what is left is the events that lead to the creation of the Holy Grail and the Grail Wars.

>>1909855
I wouldn't do anything with Sakura anyway. Fucking whore.

We don't know for sure that Ilya died one year after the Grail War in Archer's version of things. Any number of factors might have prolonged her life and in that event, Archer wouldn't be a lolicon, if indeed the relationship developed into that.

>>1909887
Her body can't develop past age 11. He'd be a lolicon, whether her life was extended or not.

But really, it's not like anybody here has a problem with that.

>>1909881
I'd say there's a difference between rape and prostitution, but that's kinda irrelevant; Shirou didn't know about any of that, and still didn't try anything despite her obviously being attracted to him.

>>1909555
He doesn't interact with her, but its obvious he has a deeper connection with her than, say, saber. Or even Sakura.

It's harder to decipher his feelings towards rin though when he's her servant.

>>1909871
You're an idiot. No one said anything about Popularity = Quality. All We've been saying is that Popularity = Sacchin Route.

>>1909906
Ilya he looked at with regret, like seeing a friend who died that he couldn't do anything to save; Saber he couldn't even defend against, like seeing a lover lost decades ago suddenly alive and well.

>>1909910
I'm not an idiot, I just posted without thinking. I'm still working on that.

>>1909891
Well... but she wold be mentally older and... nah, I got nothing. Ilya isn't all that tiny, and she has the Sasami thing going on with her age. Also, love of even the romantic sort need not involve sex.

Why does it matter if archer was a lolicon anyway? He may be bad ass but he's still shirou, that guy is willing to hump any girls leg who shows some skin.

>>1909921
Damn it! Don't apologize! What kind of man are you?! Now I feel kinda bad.

>>1909914
It seems though in all the routes where he does briefly see Ilya he shows her more favor than when he meets any other heroines. In terms of his inner thoughts and memories, and how much just the sight of them still affects him to this day.

That said, he did keep the jewel Rin used to save him, so that does show appreciation towards her as well. I'm not entirely convinced either that his route is "The Ilya route", but I can easily say his lost lover is either Ilya or Rin.

>>1909923
Like I said, nobody here really cares if he prefers the smaller, cuter body type; and to be honest, I'd have liked an Ilya route even if only as a 'this is how Archer came to be' route.

>>1909934
You remember yesterday, the guy who temporarily took up the name 'Remorseful Anon'? That's what kind of man I am.

And you don't have to feel bad; there are a lot of idiots out t/here who deserve that kind of abuse because they don't even try to make themselves better. And besides, if you didn't call me out on it, how would I learn?

>>1909935
He wears Rin's colors, but dyed his hair white.

>>1909951
>Irya

Anon HAET interchangeable letters!

>>1909935
He didn't know it was Rin's until waaaaaay later though if any of the routes are an indication. And you would be gratful for someone who fucking revived you.

>>1909956
Iryasbier

>>1909910
>Popularity = Sacchin Route
Tsukihime has been incredibly popular since its release and we don't have a Sacchin Route yet.

>>1909956
ILIAY

>>1909986
Translation where?

>>1909995
Second.

OH GOD

>>1909968
I hadn't thought of that.

It might also mean that his choice of red color was based on the amulet, rather than Rin's color preferences.

>>1910016
>>1910019
>>1910020
>>1910021

I could weep if I knew what was going on

>>1910000
Speaking of the amulet, that's a really valuable thing. I have to wonder, if archer is ever brought back into the world, could he give them the amulet again, and they get money from selling it? I mean, I would've thought it would disappear when he did, but... it apparently didn't. Considering that they compared the two amulets in UBW quite a while after Archer was gone, and how much the simple magic-holding jewels Rin was throwing at Berserker apparently cost...

Who cares about Ilya

WHERE THE FUCK IS MY CASTER ROUTE

>>1910052
You unlock it after you finish the Ayako route.

>>1910036
Seconding that.

>>1910042
From what I can tell, it means a lot to Archer, so selling it might be difficult (he gave it to Rin because he realized it was hers), but I suppose we can assume that a new 'copy' of Archer would have another copy of that amulet. It has to be like a part of his soul for him to retain it after death.

>>1910056
Of course, if you mess that up, you end up in the Rider route instead, so be careful because getting into that can lead to the Kirei and Archer routes...
;_;

>>1910042
They were comparing amulets in the epilogue of UBW? If not Archer was still alive throughtout all of UBW.

>>1910052
Play Kagetsu Tohya.

>>1910066
But a cat isn't fine too

>>1910059
Hmm, this brings up the question. Did Archer realize the amulet was Rin's before Rin used hers to revive Shirou, or was it only after that that he realized Rin was the one who saved him?

Of course, their timelines were different since ther probably wasn't a battle between archer and lancer in Archer's timeline, since that would cause a TIME PARADOX.

>>1910062
Oh, right. Dunno what I was thinking.

Still, Shirou still had the amulet near the end of HF (he used it to keep from losing himself), and we know Rin got one back from Archer in the overall prologue. I suppose it may have disappeared, but I'm pretty sure there are now two.

And like I said before, the gems they used against berserker have eight-digit price tags; how much do you think the one she used to save Shirou would be worth? To get that sentimental value, he only needs one, and Rin considers it worthless to her now that it's empty, so they've got an extra with quite a price tag on it.

>>1910069
ಠ_ಠ

>>1910072
What? Wouldn't the paradox be there if Archer and Lancer DIDN'T battle? Archer kept the gem with him for his entire life, as a symbol of somebody who had saved his life; his life would never have been saved with that gem if he hadn't seen Archer fighting Lancer.

Shirou>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Shiki

Here's an interesting thought: in order to summon a particular person as your Servant, you need an object associated with/belonging to that person to act as a catalyst during the summoning. Because Shirou (before becoming Archer) had received that pendant and kept it his whole life, it had significance to him as Archer. That may be why Rin ended up summoning him back into that past - she thought she had no items of significance, but the pendant she wore would become one IN THE FUTURE and therefore could attract Archer.

>>1910052
>>1910061

SUGOI SUGOI

>>1910134

uh...no shit, bro. That's the only reason why Rin was able to summon Archer at all. Pretty fucking obvious.

>>1910111
>>1910072
Additionally, we have no reason to think he ever realized who saved him in the first place. Shirou discovered what had happened pretty much solely because Archer gave Rin the copy. Assuming that Archer hadn't met himself when he was still Shirou (time paradox)... well, both of them are pretty dense.

>>1910019
Hey now Shirou, you've really has gotten big.

Shriou

>>1910020
you've really grown......

>>1910021
Idiot...

Shirou you idiot.

Stupid Shirou.

>>1910134
Alternatively, it just proves that Rin summoned someone else in Archer's timeline.

>>1910162
Not neccessary. Since the Grail can summon people from the future, Archer was a set course for that particular Emiya so therefore there would be no problem if she were to summon the same Archer we all know as well.

Wait a second
I dont see how summoning servants from the future makes any sense at all

If its a hero, they have to be from the past, otherwise they wouldnt be considered a hero in the current era

If they are a hero in the future, no one knows about them, and obviously their noble phantasms will be a secret to only them

That seems kinda.... wrong

>>1910201
Which is why Servant Archer isn't nearly as powerful as Counter Guardian Emiya.

>>1910201

I'm guessing they're still heroic spirits, they just don't get any recognition bonuses. So it's a double edged sword I guess (no one knows their identity and abilities, but on the other hand they don't gain any recognition bonuses)

>>1910167
True, though we do have to assume that in at least on parallel universe, Archer wasn't summoned into the Grail War, because Archer's creation needs a start point to actually exist in the future, where he would be called from.

>>1910219
Called from the future of a parallel universe? I guess that's really the only way to handle the paradox. It actually makes sense when you consider that there is a sorcerer who specializes in that aspect, especially if he was involved in the creation of the Grail in the first place.

You fags sure love to beat dead horses.

>>1910219
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predestination_paradox

>>1910264

Parallel universes are actually one of the more mainstream solutions for that. Essentially, you can't go back in time, but are simply entering a separate, functioning world where you can act in a present based on your knowledge of what happened in a similar universe. You avoid the paradox by simply using an entirely separate future as a reference.

>>1910295
also allows for prophecy, as you're just viewing a timeline that's farther along, even if it is slightly different. the events aren't predetermined, but merely show a possible future. it's impossible to change the past, but knowledge of past events can help us change ours, even if that knowledge is drawn from someone else's history.

>>1910328
Would that make fortune tellers historians or anthropologists?

>>1910334
Neither, they're scam artists.

>>1910251
If that's what you want to call it, then yes. Yes we do.

>>1910356
I for one have never beat off a dead horse.

>>1910370
i think he means beat of 'to' a dead horse.

>>1910370
I had to beat off zombie horses once. I tried using a stick; bad idea.

Next time I'll pick the machete, because a stick just doesn't do anything to stop them.

But we're getting off-topic.

>>1910201
Future heroes can be summoned into the past because The Throne is outside of time. It contains copies of all the people who ever were, all who are, and all who will be, heroes. The only reason Archer was the first future hero to be summoned into a Grail War (of course, there may be others we just don't know of) is that you need something connected to the hero to summon them, and there's a good chance that people wouldn't bother holding an object with no known significance while summoning their hero. They'd focus on something they know is special, like Excalibur's sheath.

>>1910370
Admit it, you want to beat off to her.

>>1910201
As was already said, it's a double edge sword. Berserker is as powerful as he is because he's probably the most famous, as well as his hax shit from when he was alive.

Archer is weak due to lack of recognition(Though Rin, Saber, Ilya, etc. all recognize him eventually), but all his abilities and powers are a complete unknown to everyone but Shirou, and probably Rin/Saber(The scene in the shed where they talk about how impossible his projection is, combined with figuring out he's Archer).

He caught Lancer off guard with his ability because it couldn't be predicted, and bests a lot of people through surprise.

In the original timeline before Archer existed, Rin summoned Kojiro.

True story.

>>1910386
>I had to beat off zombie horses once.
I read that the wrong way at first. Now I can't stop thinking about it.

>>1910404
YOUR RESISTANCE ONLY MAKES MY NECROTIC PENIS HARDER

>>1910398
Not necessarily Kojiro; it literally could've been anybody in the Throne, from any time period. Hell, depending on how things work out, she could've gotten a faceless, nameless entity of the Berserker class that referred to itself as Anonymous. It's unlikely, sure, but who knows? Nobody knows which Hassan-i Sabah was summoned, either; TA was just a nameless, faceless (literally) entity that held the position at some point in time.

But anyway, the point is there is no 'original timeline before archer existed', because all of the heroic spirits from throughout all time of all timelines are already in The Throne, and can be called to any time if the Master has an item that is, was, or will eventually be vitally important to somebody who is, was, or will eventually be a hero.

>>1910423
Except there HAS to be a point of origin.

Shirou will not become Archer on any route, because Archer exists. There has to be a time where there was no Emiya hero summoned.

I simply put forth Kojiro because it'd be entertaining, and she had no actual focus, so it'd have to be a fictional hero. Have Caster summon Robin Hood as a replacement Archer.

Shirou sees Lancer barely survive a 2-stroke Tsubame Gaeshi, gets hunted down by Lancer, doesn't learn about Rin's pendant, etc.

>>1910398
How would she have summoned Kojirou (assuming we're thinking of the same guy)? He doesn't actually exist; the only reason he came into the War we know of is because of Caster trying to summon her own servant.

If Rin had a non-EMIYA servant, it'd probably be Ajax.

>>1910436
Of course there was a time when no Emiya was summoned; there's an infinite number of times where that happens, as well as an infinite number of times where it doesn't, and the same number where anything else could happen. Maybe one of those produced the Archer we know and love, maybe Steel Mind did it, and maybe even True End HF. All that matters is that it did happen.

I think the issue here is our different perceptions. I view it as an infinite number of separate timelines with an infinite number of possibilities, and The Throne is completely separate from all of that; it picks and chooses heroes from any timeline it wants, and sends them out whenever necessary (whether for a Holy Grail War or as Guardians) to whatever timelines necessary.

...The concept of infinity is just a bitch to described...

>>1910461
>maybe Steel Mind did it
I always thought this was the best explanation
It certainly gives him a reason to be a cynical bastard

>>1910470
Mind Of Steel Shirou doesn't really strike me as one who would make a contract with the world to save ~100 people.

>>1910479
Really? He let the girl he loved die to save an indeterminate number of people, and Hero Emiya made the contract because he thought it would let him save an infinite number, not just one hundred.

>>1910436
>>1910432
>>1910423

The man who was summoned as Sasaki Kojirou was a real guy. His name just wasn't Sasaki Kojirou and he just never fought Musashi. The man who was summoned was a man who could preform the legendary move.

>>1910461
That actually makes perfect sense, though I disagree with the idea that Throne Archer could be a collective of Shirous that made the same choice. It makes more sense to say that there would be an individual Shirou for every separate one that made that same choice, as they are still separate entities.

The only thing I as trying to argue was that the Archer we know from Fate/Stay/Night is not the Shirou from 'that' game, as having him meet himself on the same timeline in which he was born would cause a paradox.

Had Archer killed Shirou, there might have been a dimensional backlash, given that they had a similar frequency, but it wouldn't have anything to do with a paradox.

Even Archer realized that.

>>1909986
Illiyay?

>>1910507
But there's no reason that meeting himself would cause a paradox; if certain things were said or done, meeting his future, successful hero self might have just given him new confidence in his ambition.

But we know that Fate Shiro becomes "Archer" in the end too.

>>1910516
None of the Shirou's we see in any of the True/Good/Normal endings become Archer, but Fate Shirou would have the highest chance to due so if it could happen.

>>1910516
With infinite possibility, we have to assume that that does happen at least once. But considering that The Throne only needs one of each Heroic Spirit, I'd say it would only pick the most powerful one out of all of them, which in this case most likely means the one who was most able to give up everything important to him for his ideal. Out of what we've seen, Steel Mind fits that best, though it's nearly guaranteed that at least one parallel had him start giving up everything immediately after taking on Kiritsugu's dream.

>>1910529
>>1910525

PS2 true end. He meets Saber again in Avalon as Archer.

>>1910538
Not the true end. More of a "what-if" Fate route good end.

I just want to know who was Archer in the War where Shiro will grow up to become Archer.

I'm not sure how the paradox would resolve though.

>>1910513
It would only cause a paradox because it'd fracture the timeline. Again, this is assuming that our Archer never met himself in the past, and there are an infinite number of Shirous that made the choice to join the throne, and an infinite amount that made the choice as a result of meeting a version of themselves from a separate timeline, but as it is, there are an infinite number of Shirous that made that choice without meeting said 'separate' entity.

Each timeline represents one of an infinite number of possibilities, but they are still separate timelines. If the same exact Shirou were to be responsible for his becoming Archer by appearing as Archer, you would have a loop, which in a linear timeline means a fracture.

>>1910572
>Archer never met himself in the past,

Er, I meant

>assuming Archer never met a version of himself in the past,

>>1910572
The problem is that only one of them might have been chosen, which complicates matters quite a bit. If they only allow 'one' (this is never mentioned in the fluff) version of any given hero out of all those possibilities.

>>1910564
>>1910538

Last Episode was really left too vague to determine any thing like that. It could be a dream, it could fact, for all we know it could be Merlin playing one final trick on Arthur.

>>1910572
Unlimited Archer Works?

>Is Archer a lolicon

>Predestination Paradox and its relation to Linear Time Lines

>>1910572
Oh, so by 'Original Timeline', you mean 'Archer's Origin Timeline', as in the one the Archer we know was pulled from. It's possible that he never gets summoned into that timeline, but it's also possible that he gets summoned into that timeline in the very first holy grail war, the last, or even all of them. As I said before, seeing what he becomes might even have been the catalyst to become that; with infinite timelines containing an infinite number of differences, there's nothing at all we can say for sure.

>>1910622
I know, right? Just like a real conversation, this one has gone off on tangents nobody would've expected.

>>1910566
I have the strong suspicion that the Servant would be akin to what her father summoned; someone with relation to massive wealth and greed, essentially. Her father summoned Gilgamesh - whether he had some catalyst or not there's still the factor to consider that Servants take after their Masters, in which the Tohsaka money-love suited the summon perfect.

Someone earlier mentioned Ajax, which is also a possibility. The reason for that is, of course, due to the fact that Archer would have to have seen Rho Aias to be able to bring it forth from Unlimited Blade Works.

Then again, with money-grubbing in mind, for all we know she could have summoned Jason of the Argonauts on account of the Golden Fleece.

>>1910630
Yes, it'd work either way. I'm only trying to avoid 'the loop', where Archer would never have existed had he not gone back in time to meet himself. If we assume that time is linear, an infinite logic loop fucks everything up just like it does in linear programming.

Of course, time may not be linear.

In either case, so long as one Shirou becomes Archer without being influenced by his future self, we can sidestep the loop and say it was just a different timeline's Archer. Even linear programs can interact with each other, after all.

It's not that Archer can't act as a catalyst, just that he has to exist in order to do so, and the future is created by actions in the past.

What exactly does any of this have to do with the main topic?

>>1910710

we're getting to that

ENOUGH! Let's go back to the topic at hand.

How much sex did Shirou and Illya have in that godly year to make him miss her so much?

>>1910710
far as I can tell, we were deciding whether or not archer knew who the amulet belonged to, which would make rin more likely to be the female in question, as opposed to ilya.

>>1910723
I always assumed it went the Kana Little Sister Route. That or the log cabin man and wife, where they move out into the middle of nowhere to avoid getting in trouble for their physical differences and have an obscene amount of sex to make up for the lack of outside social contact.

>>1910666
Personality is overridden if you have a catalyst. Kiritsugu and Saber are essentially nothing alike, and I believe Tokiomi summoned Gilgamesh with the skin of a snake or something.

That said, Ajax is good. He'd be better as a Lancer, I think, but I'm pretty sure he was good with a bow as well.

As for Archer, definitely got close to Ilya. The question is how close.

>>1910745
Anal+toys close.

A reasonable summary of the Emiya-Archer route might then be Mind of Steel, softened by branching into an Ilya Route, and with Rin summoning Ajax-Archer through personal affinity.

It's sort of a pity that we see little or no Archer-Sakura interaction, or we might have had it confirmed by him remorseful or wanting to get rid of her early on, having killed her in his own path...

Either way, that means we have Shirou-to-be-Archer hunting down and defeating the remaining servants, probably learning to project Rho Aias early on and coupling it with a suitable offensive weapon, forgotten and after the war replaced with the more personal Kanshou & Bakuya.

>>1910755
I'm rather interested in what would happen Grail wise. Ilya would need to survive the war, and perhaps forge a connection similar to the one Sakura had in order to sustain her body.

>>1910767
Sakura had an actual piece of the grail in her, though.

Now... Shirou defeats all the servants, Ilya is alive, and Sakura is dead. This would mean all the servants would gather in Ilya, but there'd be no remaining servant to reach out and claim the grail, should it manifest.

And what is Kotomine up to?

>>1910745
>Personality is overridden if you have a catalyst. Kiritsugu and Saber are essentially nothing alike

Wat?

Seriously, wat? They both closed off their emotions despite their personal feelings towards their actions for the sake of creating the best solution with the least casualties. Sacrifice the few to save the many, and all for the end goal. They were exactly alike.

>>1910782
Probably claiming the Grail, causing Ilya to drop into a coma in the process, which makes Shirou fly into the Berserker Rage of norse legend. They get an end-of-HF-style ultimate showdown, but this time Shirou's on the offensive for the majority of the time and kicks some serious ass. Once Kotomine is dead, Shirou pulls out his fake heart, Strengthens it into a real heart, and puts it into Ilya. With her new heart, she's human enough to live a full life, and True End.

Normal End is she doesn't love him enough to come back to life, and he becomes Archer. The difference is between getting ALL of the Ilyapoint, and missing one.

>>1910801
"With such a perfect holy relic, the summoned heroic spirit will definitely be the one we want. But his and mine personalities are too vastly different.

Originally, about the summoning of a Servant, the nature of the summoned heroic spirit will be largely affected by the Master's personality. Theoretically, all summoned heroic spirits have similar personalities as their Masters. However the holy relic takes precedence in priority. The more explicit the origin of the holy relic, the more likely that the summoned Heroic Spirit will be locked as a certain someone."

"A head-to-head battle is not my style; especially in a death match. If I am to attack then it should be from behind while the enemy is asleep. Not caring about the time or place, just for the purpose of eliminating the enemy most efficiently using the method with the greatest probability of success. ... You think that prestigious knight would aid me in such battles?"

>>1910801
I guess you have a point there. I was basing it more on how Saber prefers to do things as a knight, in your face, in an honorable duel and whatever.

Whereas Kiritsugu doesn't care and would rather take the lowest risk/highest return snipe-the-master-and-wait-for-servant-to-dematerialize method.

Er, they're similar in a way, but also very, very different. That said, personality is still overridden when you have a catalyst as specific as that.

>>1910802
7/10.

Obviously took a bit of effort, but not detailed enough and it should be Good End and True End instead of True End and Normal End.

>>1909986
SAUCE. SAUCE for the greatest justice.

>>1909995
>>1909997
>>1910900
Fourth'd.

>>1910905
>>1910900
_PNO_Group__Motto_Motto__Ilya_s_Plan__Fate__loli_

someone on desuchan I think translated it, they weren't very familiar with Fate so they translated Ilya's name in a funny way

>>1910910
...You know, I didn't think it would work, but copy/pasting that entire line into /rs/ worked like a charm.

True End:
Spend all time with Ilya when given choices, make her understand Shirou's wish to save people, and how sacrifice of a few may sometimes be necessary. When the last servant is finally defeated, Kotomine conspires to make the grail manifest in Ilya, and claims it - and with all that magical power, with his wish before him, he... asks a question. And receives a simple answer. But it is not enough. All that power struggles for release, threatening a destructive overload, not only killing Ilya but sparking a disaster like last time! That can't be allowed to happen! The right choice is to attempt to communicate with Ilya. She wakes up, sees, and understands. With all this power flowing through her, through the grail she is, she can do it. The second magic is not so difficult, after all. Heaven's Feel is attained. A blinding flash, and Ilya falls to her knees, completely drained, and dying. Looking up, she speaks her last words: "...like that, right? You have to sacrifice someone to save people. I wanted to try it... once."

Ilya dies. Left is only Shirou, devastated but resolute, and Kotomine, returned fully to life in body and soul, with a proper heart, through the Second Magic. He's still the same disagreeable person, though. The epilogue shows us a Shirou fighting hard to save people, travelling to distant countries studying new weapons to add to his Unlimited Blade Works, and occasionally returning to Fuyuki, to the church on the hill, and making sure that priest is doing what *he* can to save people, regardless of what he wants. Because, Kotomine has to make the Ilya's sacrifice was worthwhile. Finally, disappointed on that count as well as so many others, Shirou makes a that final bargain, somewhere, alone... Enter Archer.

>>1910917
Of course, it's completely untranslated, but I figure that shouldn't be too much of a problem for some of you.

>>1910941
the => sure

Good End:
Mostly the same, except Shirou spends somewhat less time with Ilya, carefully balancing her affection to avoid a dead end while not spilling his ideals down her throat. At the end, with the Second Magic in her hands, she instead uses it to give herself proper human life with a "I still... I still have things I wanted to say to you, onii-chan! I don't want to disappear!" Happy end.

>>1910941

kotomine was never good though. even when he had a human heart and not the black one from the grail.

>>1910945
>>1910917
>>1910910
Oh, sorry, I thought that may have been the translated version. I read it on desuchan anyway, it's pretty standard fare for fap fodder.

Ahh, Ilya, you're my favorite loli ever.

>>1910961
True, that's why Shirou has to keep coming back to the church, making sure he's doing good deeds even if his desires are different, beating any new evil plans out of him when necessary.

Fate!Shirou had the biggest chance to become Heroic Shirou probably for one reason:

Archer never reveals or gets a CHANCE to really reveal who he is to Shirou in that route. Shirou doesn't spend any time fagging over Kanshou and Bakuya, and they have all of three conversations together. Archer literally comes and goes in obscurity, leaving Shirou mostly untouched.

The other routes, Shirou figures it out quickly, but Fate, Archer comes and goes before he has a chance to. So there's no glaring opposition to his path in life that would shake him down (other big reason for the similarity being Zouken doesn't attempt to activate the Black Grail).

>>1911017
tl;dr: Archer in Shirou-to-be-Archer's timeline was, in fact, Emiya. He just never got his memories back in time to fuck his past self's day up.

No he's not. Illya or whatever her name was never a loli.

>>1910941

>>1911029
loli appeal is based on how somebody looks, not how old they actually are.

>>1911017
I would say that some alternate timeline not present in F/SN is the one in which Shirou becomes Archer.

>>1910910
Dude, those two fuck like rabbits in that. Also, delicious tanline Ilya is delicious.

>>1911029
loli is a bodytype, not an agegroup, dumbass.

>>1911048
Looks and how they act. Ilya acts like a little girl when she's not in evil master mode, and even then she's pretty childish.

>>1911106
Ah, right. Sorry, most of the loli stuff I've encountered has been in Japanese still, so I can't usually take into account how they act.

Off topic, but does anybody have a save with all of the Tiger dojos?

I didn't get them all during Fate (didn't know about Tiger stamps) and I really don't want to play through again to get them.

>>1911138
Just use the flowchart and the skip scene function.

>>1911022
Shriou had very little personal contact with Ilya in Fate. Along with that, Archer doesnt seem to give a rats ass about Saber in any of the routes.

Its possible, but highly unlikely. Didn't Nasu say there was only about a 10% chance of fate shirou becoming Archer?