/jp/ - Otaku Culture

>>18652943
Which touhou is the best at cheating at mahjong?

>10 points from ranking up
>joukyuu downtime
well, guess I'll go bully some ippan scubs for that last morsel
>get fucked every hand and bust

>>18653307
It's pretty much never worth playing in a lobby below your level, your main concern should be R, not dan points and the risk of losing a lot of R is much greater down there.

What do you guys think about rounds where the dora is a sangenpai? They seem like a real pain to play because when you draw the dora you're forced to keep it or else you risk giving someone a free mangan and keeping it can ruin your hand. For that same reason it's also scary to riichi if you aren't holding on to 2 of them.

>>18654024
If I draw the dora early I just discard it immediately. This gives the other players less time to collect two and pon off of me. If it passes without getting ponned then it's likely that no one will be using a dora that game. For a complete hand to use an honour tile requires at least two of them. If the other players see that one has already been discarded then they likely will also discard them because there are only two more possible tiles they could draw to help form a pair or set with it.

If I discard it early and someone pons it then I usually just accept that I likely won't win the hand and play it cautiously.

If I draw one late in the hand and I can't see any of them in the discard ponds then I'll probably just keep it and defend. By that point if it hasn't come out it's likely someone is waiting on it.

I'm by no means good at this game though so take my words with a grain of salt.

>get cucked out of a dama haneman by toimen's cheap hand
>ron him later with another one and he finishes 4th
feels good man

>>18653164
Has to be Marisa

>>18654024
Two options:

>Discard early
Get it out of the way right away, especially at a time when no one may be able to use it. Barring haipai.

>Keep it
Use it yourself.

With that said, if you hold on to it and then drop it later, then you're asking for trouble.

>>18654818
you'd think Sakuya and time stop would be more useful for cheating. Could swap tiles in and out of the wall.

Why is this allowed?

>>18652943
can somebody explain me why i sometimes cant ron open tan'yao?
i had a 23, obviously waiting for the 3 since a 1 would leave me no yaku. but i was not allowed to ron.
later that same hand i was just waiting on a pair instead and that was allowed.

>>18655601
Post pic, but most likely it's furiten. If you wait with 23 and draw a 1, you have to discard it ending up in furiten. There's also the furiten if someone discards one of your winning tiles until it's your turn again. So in this case if shimocha (the person after you) discards the 1, you end up in furiten and can't win off a 4 if one of the other two discards it.

>>18655623
i thought furiten only counted per tile :<
someone discarded a 1 before someone discarded a 3

>>18655634
>furiten
also after reading it seems you need to ron with riichi and cant choose temporary furiten. i guess thats a good reason to not riichi if you want to target someone.

>>18655463
I always like it when someone just fucking dies, you just gotta shrug and be glad it wasn't you that time.

>>18655463
Why did they even throw away seven sou? Should've chucked the nine sou.

>>18656283
Don't overestimate joukyuu

>>18656283
I can only think that they were going for a stupidly unlikely kokushi.

>>18656511
Even then you'd probably rather discard 6s or 6m for a possible chanta if you dont get the needed tiles. 7s is literally the last thing I'd ditch here

>>18656511
It's right next to 9 sou so I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume it was a misclick

>>18653164
Mamizou. Always has exactly the tiles she needs. Only problem is other players might have the same ones.

>>18656665
>four 13-sided kokushis
Nobody wins.

>>18656695
>all waiting on the same tile
>all 4 of that tile are in the dead wall

>deal in
>"how bad can it possibly be?"
>ura-dora: 8 han

>>18655634
Furiten applies to all waiting tiles.

This suuankou was actually furiten because of a 9sou. Otherwise, I would have called ron on the hatsu earlier.

whats the correct order to watch all saki seasons in ?

>>18659028
Airing order. You could watch Zenkoku before Achiga if you really want to but it's nice to have Achiga dividing the two if you ask me.

>>18659028
Season 1 is season 1. After that, who cares.

>>18656497
It was ippan actually, even though the opponents were all 2-dan.

What do here?

Conventional advice would say with 2 dora to riichi right now but shimocha's calls and discards suggest he's going for chanta and probably has the rest of the dora anyway and 6 sou doesn't seem like a tile to come out of anyone. If you don't riichi do you go yakuless tenpai and discard the 4 man or discard the 6 sou to maximize the chance for pinfu and itsuu? If you discarded 6 sou and get a 2-4 or 4-6 man kanchan would you then riichi?

Also is any of this overthinking?. I've only recently gotten out of the habit of assuming someone is going for honitsu if their discards are missing a suit even if they haven't called anything.

>>18659870
Forgot pic.

>>18659685
Dan players should be banned from ippan.

>>18659882
It's a hard call but you're probably going to draw a tile to upgrade to pinfu before you tsumo (4tiles v 12tiles showing) and no one's gonna deal in the dora. Plus you can also take 4s for dama mangan with a crappy kanchan. Someone better than me would probably riichi but I don't know if I would.

>>18659870
My thinking is simpler.
Since a mangan doesn't pull you to last and you've got 2 dora, just riichi and forget about it. Even if everybody folds, you get to start your dealer turn as first place.

If shimocha is going honitsu or chanta, then 6s is all the more likely to come out, isn't it?

3:0

Reminder

>>18659915
Anyone above 4dan R1800 cannot go into ippan

>>18661166
>implying they're not playing in ippan using NoName
There's reason why ippan is so wild and magical compared to dan lobbies.

It's 2018 and waiting on doras still works!

Stupid question, say my opened another yaku hand (honitsu) has an additional iipeikou shape in it, I won't get that iipeikou right?

>place top, then place second
>disconnect for 2-3 tiles: deal into a riichi and bust out
Easy come, easy go.

>>18664726
>I won't get that iipeikou right?
No. Iipeikou must be closed - no exceptions.

>>18664906
I love it when someone disconnects during a riichi and I can take the opportunity to dump all my dangerous tiles.

>>18665156
Thank you.

>>18659870
>and discards suggest he's going for chanta and probably has the rest of the dora anyway and 6 sou doesn't seem like a tile to come out of anyone.
No, shimocha probably doesn't have 2 dora. Why? Simply because it is unlikely. There are four players + a lot of tiles in the wall, so for one of them having 2 out of 2 of them is unlikely. Even if he goes for chanta that doesn't magically increase his chance of getting the tiles he wants. Yes, if he goes for chanta that slightly increases the chance of him having the two 9s, because if he does have them, it increases the likelihood of him going for chanta, but overall the chance is still small because there many possible reasons to go for chanta even without the two dora. Also you can think about it this way as well: If shimocha is waiting on 9m that means you can't deal into his hand, because if you draw 9m you win before him. So there's a reason to push. So, yes this is overthinking things and you might want to get out of the habit of assuming your opponents having the tiles they need just because they go for a certain hand.
Also why would you assume 6s probably doesn't come out? Yes, it's a middle tile, but that aside I don't see any indication for that claim.

>If you don't riichi do you go yakuless tenpai and discard the 4 man or discard the 6 sou to maximize the chance for pinfu and itsuu? If you discarded 6 sou and get a 2-4 or 4-6 man kanchan would you then riichi?
Yakuless tenpai is the worst of all options. You can't win by ron and you decrease your chance to draw a tile to improve your wait for riichi.
Discarding 6s is better, because as you said it maximizes your chance for a better wait, pinfu and itsuu. Regrading the kanchans, 3m yes. There are 4 of them so that's instant riichi. 5m is a close call, there are only two left, and with 4-6 you could improve the wait upon drawing 3 or 7. I'm not sure which is better there.
Anyway the best move is easily to just riichi with the 9m/6s shanpon if you ask me.
Also think about it this way:
>>18660071
Waiting on the dora is not so bad, especially if it's a terminal. You should not get discouraged by things like that. The number of tiles you wait on is usually much more important then the kind of tiles. 3 winning tiles it's not great, but it's vertainly ok for a 3han hand.

Lads, I'm 1693R
Do I still have a shot at toku?

This game lasted for 1h30. I played safe until south 3 thinking I had won. Then this guy riichi on the 5th turn and I'm like "yeah, I'm fine". I was not.

I'm now dead inside

>>18667301
What's your dan level
Of course you have a shot, play more, get better, and grind out those wins

>>18667316
>Ayyo I'm in first lemme deal this live yakuhai into iipatsu

>>18667301
How many games are you at? Even if you are already at the soft cap (400 games) you can still do the hell grind. It will just be a truly horrible experience, but you can do it even at that R. More likely though you are only 100 games or so in, in which case you just need to learn the game. There isn't even a reason to think about R until you are at a fairly consistent 4d though.

>>18668114
What would you have dealt anon

>>18668909
I'm not him but since kamicha has dealt two 4p, he's unlikely to have a 34p wait so I'd try the 2p.

>>18665942
Thanks for the lengthy advice, anon. I'll riichi the next dora shanpon I get just for you.

>>18667316
>1h30
Play faster!

>>18668909
you have two 2p which are much safer than live yakuhai. After that it's just luck but you have the 4m kabe to consider as well.

>>18668525
>There isn't even a reason to think about R until you are at a fairly consistent 4d though.
R tells you how good you are, though.

>>18668967
>>18669081
The live yakuhai is far safer. Having dealt 2 4p makes the 2p only slightly safer, especially when the riichi came this early. He could've easily had 34 ryanmen. Haku was the safest tile in the hand as there was no suji or kabe and not even a 1-chance tile.

>>18667366
>>18668525
4d with over eight hundred games
Maybe I should make a new account, that why I'm asking.

>>18671282
Stable 4d? Go ahead and start a new account. Don't bother if you can't hold 4d though.

>>18671294
I don't think I'm stable yet.

I'll play one hundred more games and see what happens. If I'm still 4d then I'll make a new account or try to grind the remaining R (although I think this is extremely unlikely to happen)

Stable 4d only requires 22% 1st and 25.5% 4th and a good amount of 2nds. A lower skill player can reach that level. 5d and higher requires a much better stat.

>>18665942
>No, shimocha probably doesn't have 2 dora.

Why else would he open his hand when he's that far behind?

>>18672136
Desperate times call for desperate measures. Don't under/overestimate what last place'll do, especially when the point gap is big.

>>18672136
Like >>18672365 said, being dead last place allows for incredible madmanship.

3:0

3:0

>>18670503
>having dealt 2 4p makes the 2p only slightly safer
Every single normal pattern waiting on 2p is improved by 4p, if you were waiting to complete a set that needed at least a 2p you would never discard a 4p first.

>>18672136
First, he could just as well be waiting on the dora. Second he could've something like yakuhai + chanta + shanshoku. Third it's only S1 so placement and point difference is not TAT important yet.

>>18675509
>if you were waiting to complete a set that needed at least a 2p you would never discard a 4p first.
But that is wrong. Assume the following hand:
344p
246m
123456s
WW
Discarding 4p gives the same number of uke-ire as discarding 2m or 6m but you massively increase your chance for pinfu and a ryanmen wait when getting to tenpai.

>>18675689
I was wrong in saying always. Sure there are situations were you get dealt iishanten hands and the 4p is your only overflow tile, but even with 344p there's going to be a less useful tile 95% of the time until you get very close to tenpai, or even on tenpai with perfect one away hands.

Would you have ron'd?

>>18676688
>haneman
yes

>>18676714
>>18676688
wait
>would have chosen to win the game in S4
lel

>>18676688
Why the hell not? It gets you to first which is all that matters.

>>18676688
there are instances where you are better off passing on a win for the sake of strategy.

in this case, you gain nothing aside from bragging rights. what's more, there is zero chance anyone else will deal Haku at this point so you'd be exposing yourself to the very real possibility of being overtaken by 3rd (or even 4th!)

take the win and walk

>>18676688
No. Bragging right are all that matters, I'd go for that yakuman and take the 4th if I failed.

first place would come someday
but yakuman wouldn't come everlastingly if you don't try to catch...

>>18680250
yakuman will come someday
but tenhoui wouldn't come everlastingly if you don't play at your best...

>>18659870
Throw 4m, wait a few turns to draw 4-5s and go for Itsu, 2 dora pinfu, tsumo for haneman or itsu 2 dora riichi. If I can't draw 4-5s I'll wait for a 9m draw, with 3 dora tsumo it's mangan.

https://mahjong.guide/quick-fire-tournament-league/

>>18675968
>but even with 344p there's going to be a less useful tile 95% of the time until you get very close to tenpai, or even on tenpai with perfect one away hands.
Nah, there are many other examples as well, e.g. most shapes with 3 pairs are played best by discarding one of the pairs. And since a ryanmen wait is stil good enough on its own it's usually best to discard from a shape such as 344. There is a reason people look at 1 chance tiles before looking at stuff like this.

>>18681346
>Easter Sunday
Why wouly you schedule your first league game during a holidy when people are usually meeting with their families?

>>18682467
If you truly care about mahjong you would have forsaken your family already

>>18682467
People playing online mahjong outside of Japan don't have families they spend a lot of time with, or if they do they aren't very good at mahjong.

>>18683105
... I resent that

>>18683105
Why are we here anon

>>18683461
For each other.

>>18684970
The fact the the skeletons in the foreground are holding hands is what makes this image.

pon

>>18685140
I seriously hope you guys don't do this.

>>18685168
kan

>>18685366
>it's a NoName opens his hand with Daiminkan episode
I've seen this one before.

>>18685452
Have you seen the one where he goes rinshan nomi?

>>18685559
I've actually seen rishan+dora before in 7447 but it wasn't a NoName.

>Be happy about your starting hand
>Lol no

That said, only a week left this month, how is it going? Had some dumb luck going for a whole day, so it's looking pretty good for once with 12 + 9 + 5 + 12 = 38

>>18676688
Take your haneman and like it.

Daisangen too EZ anyways.

>>18689571
>Daisangen too EZ anyways.

And the proof.

>>18689507
>17+22+10+9 = 58
God I can't wait to leave Joukyuu

>>18689873
Please spare a thought for those of us who are stuck there forever.

>>18689911
Learn to play better and climb out of the pit anon

I think I fucked up somewhere along the way. And here too, cause I was greedy

>>18690497
How badly did they fuck you anon?

>>18690497
You fucked up when you went for a shanpon on all 5s. You're the dealer, learn to hold back your greed and accept that your best strategy is to prioritize speed over hand value to keep the renchan.
Should have kept the 6s and cut the 5s. You probably still would have dealt in, but you should know better than going on a 5p 5s wait.

>>18690588
Actually, I hadn't seen the 4p you threw earlier. If you had kept that you could have won.

>>18676714
how is it haneman?

>>18692940
Haku, Hatsu, Shousangen, hon itsu, dora

03/26 | 牌譜 | 般南喰赤 | http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2018032605gm-0009-0000-bbe84e11&tw=2

>that last hand
i am beyond pissed

>>18692950
always forget hon itsu

>>18690588
>>18690537
In the end it was only 3 han, so I didn't pay that much all things considered.

I wanted to win through chun, but it never came until a turn after this one. So I switched to toi toi as yaku thinking that might be a good decision here.

>>18692979
>ponning the 2pin
Why?
Your 5,8pin wait had 7 available tiles to win off of
The 6,9pin tenpai only has 2

>>18693117
Wow I suck cocks disregard this

>>18693136
why ? i just wanted to get closer to chin itsu
but it might have been bad, what where you thinking off?

>>18693214
plus that 1-9 +1 han for haneman so i could ron off anyone.
though this fucker ronned the same tile for 1500 points and got ahead of me still by so little

>>18693214
You already had chinitsu tenpai before you ponned the 2pin. You could win off of 5 or 8 pin, making for seven tiles to win off of. After ponning 2pin and discarding 7 pin you could only win off of 5, 6, 9 pin. Two of the 6 and 9pins were already discarded so you decreased the amount of potential tiles you could win off of by one.

>>18693314
true but that would only be a mangan which would not be enough to win.

>>18693317
Oh jesus I didn't even realise you had ikkitsuukan with that shape. I'm fucking retarded.

>>18690588
5s/5p had 4 life tiles
56s had 5 life tiles. (2 7s; 3 4s) and the 4s is not that much more likely to come out.
Sure 56 still is the better wait, but the differece is hand value is huge. Going for totoi is acceptable here if you ask me.

Man, I sure am glad this isn't counted as a double yakuman. Fuck this game

tenho is so fucking fast. i wish i could find some live players so i can start being able to think if i want to riichi or not.
i also cant keep track of all the tiles so i sometimes end up in a worse tenpai because i choose multiple waits that are gone.

>>18695192
It seems short, but every second you have in Tenhou is fully dedicated to decision making. In real game, you have to line up your tiles, draw the tile from wall, rearrange your hand with occasional re-line up, etc. You have to appreciate how much autopilot feature Tenhou gives.

>>18695192
15 seconds not enough for you? Start thinking about your hand before you even reach 1-shanten. Online mahjong have it easier than rl, like the other anon said.
>cant keep track of all the tiles
Pay more attention and look at the pond more.

okay i actually have brain problems.
how the fuck can a column be NA top only or NA bottom only?

for 2 han not dealer. wouldnt the NA be 400+400+700 =1500?

>>18695734

>>18695734
Tsumo gives you 2 fu regardless whether your hand is open or not, so it's impossible to have 20 fu with a tsumo.
Chii toitsu is always concealed, so a tsumo would be an additional han, 2 han tsumo chii toitsu is simply impossible

>>18695734
The top column isn't the total number of points you get, it's the ron value.
Since you can only ever get 20fu by doing pinfu tsumo, the ron value is N/A.

>>18695820
>it's impossible to have 20 fu with a tsumo
Pinfu + tsumo = 2 han 20 fu.

>>18694161
Well, you're still dead

>>18695192
>i wish i could find some live players
If you play too slow at my table, I will chastise you.

>>18695872
Yes that's what it says. but ronning off another player, you'd get another 10 for that concealed ron, so you have 30 fu

>>18695903
>tsumo
>but ronning off another player
I think one of us is confused. I was just pointing out that it is possible to tsumo a 20 fu hand.

>>18695734
>how the fuck can a column be NA top only or NA bottom only?
NA applies to impossible circumstances. Someone covered the chiitoitsu case.

As for 20 fu... it is impossible to call ron with 20 fu... even in the case of the "open pinfu".

>>18695929
Oh yeah, mixed that up

>>18695964
That's what I meant, but I didn't know an "open pinfu" would give you 2 fu in itself.

>>18695891
In case of pinfu tsumo doesn't give fu points.

>>18695192
Once you learn more. You will only need at most 3 seconds to decide on discards

>>18697092
but that would mean remembering every single tile played.

>>18695192
>I wish I could find some live players
On tenhou, most players take 3-5 seconds so when it's my turn I've had 9-15 seconds to look at the discards which is plenty. The first time I played against live players, everyone was playing at 0 seconds including myself since there was no longer the lag from tenhou.
You're not going to have fun with live players if you're not fast.

>>18695192
You have to be even faster with live tiles or it's just irritating.

2:0

Breaking 67p to match the 6p riichi discard then later pushing with a furiten riichi.
Why bother? Is it just because "lol7447"?

>>18698818
I hope he managed to tsumo that
Would've been hilarious

>5dan in joukyuu
great... those motherfuckers are such bullies... I wish someone would teach them a lesson
>get first dealer
>SEVEN FUCKING DEALER TURNS LATER MR 5DAN GETS BUSTED

I'm not that great at this game, but sometimes I get such cunt luck it isn't even funny

>few hours later, end up in a room with both 5dan AND 6dan
fuck, guess this is karma....
>still get first, if by less spectacular means

>>18699186
Dan doesn't mean anything, only R does.

>>18699351
This. Anyone can rank up you don't have to be that good to avoid 4th.

>>18697092
learn what? because i know all the yaku and rules. it just takes me long to look for the best discard if my tiles are in a blob with all the numbers stacked together so i cant make out the best shape.
also doing that and remembering all discards, do you guys just look at the discards and instantly engrave it in your mind?
i usually have to look it all up again if i even have time for that.
i am probably at 50-100 games now. do i just need to play 500 and it will all come naturally, or should i get some habits not recorded in general tile efficiency and mahjong guides?

>>18699422
You learn how to recognise common shapes and instinctual tile efficiency.
Learn to watch the discard pond as other people are discarding.

>>18699422
For the majority of your early turns you'll only have discard isolated tiles which you don't need to spend any time on, and when you get rid of your isolated tiles you're not going to be drawing anything useful every turn, so you just identify your stronger and weaker shapes in your hand and what's probably going to be cut. Like that 89 penchan might need to be broken up for efficiency but that 4,red5 isn't going anywhere. Remembering all discards isn't important because you'll eventually be able to do it at a glance so figuring out genbutsu, dead/nearly dead waits and what sets to cut or upgrade becomes quick. If you're having trouble just say the discarded tile in your head or out loud, eventually upgrading to say whether it was tsumogiri or not (don't worry about it now, but it's important later, especially at the end of a hand)

How do I start making money off of this
Where do I sign up with the yakuza

>>18699558
If you're Gaijin they won't even let you in the door unless you know someone, it's well documented. They won't even let you play on non-gambling tables.

>>18699558
You teach old jewish ladies how2play and rake in the shekels.

>>18699569
So if you don't look gaijin and talk ok nip they might let you in?

>>18699655
Yes, if you look like you were isolated from the rest of the world for a few centuries, then you might pass as one of them

When I try to watch pro players, why do they always seem to hold onto honor tiles forever? i.e discarding stranded 2/8 tiles before even useless honor tiles. Is it just because they want to have safer tiles to discard later? And should I just stick to the simpler strategy of discarding useless winds before yaku honor tiles before 1/9 tiles?

>>18700558
I'm not an expert either, but sometimes it's good to look at things from the other side. Unattractive tiles like honor tiles are more likely to be discarded early, so if no one discarded north in the first 3-5 turns, it's more likely to still be in the wall. They can also function as save discards in mid-game and dangerous tiles in late-game if they're live, when you declared riichi. Opponents either have to risk dealing them in a likely shanpon wait or abandon their hand, cause they probably won't be able to complete them.

>>18700558
If your hand is doomed to lose tenpai race, tanking can be good option.

>>18700558
While the situation still looks safe (no riichi, no or at most 1 meld, early or middle of a hand) it's usually a good idea to discard the potentially most dangerous tile ou of all the tiles that have the least potential to advance your hand. Consider the following hand. What woudl you discard?

338m
445566p
2367s
W

Clearly the 8m and W are the most useless tiles. Now you might think that 8m is still somewhat more usefull than the W but it actually isn't. You already have to ryanmen shapes. The 8m can't become any better shape then that, at best it can become a ryanmen shape as well by drawing a 7m but then you still have to break up one of your ryanmen shapes so the hand remains essentially the same (of course this assumes that are stil a lot of 1458s left to complete your two rynamen shapes. If many of them are already out you might want to keep the 8m to potentially replace your ryanmen wait with a better ryanmen wait).
Now since both 8m and W are equally useless you should keep the W as a safe tile in case someone calls riichi or melds something dangerous like a dora triplet.

As long as the middle tile or terminal could still potentially improve your hand better than a useless wind I would discard the wind.

>>18699558
if you speak japanese, normal parlors do exist

>>18700558
because not making you opponent win their hand is the most basic strategy of this game
you discard them only if your hand is going somewhere

>>18699527
>tsumogiri
why does it matter if i know that i discarded the tile i drew?

>>18701408
Lol no, usually you should discard them ealy, in fact it's rather the opposite. When your hand is already looking good you can often keep some otakaze because many more dangerous will be useless as well. Early in a hand even isolated middle tiles are still valuable.

>>18699475
so do i just play 300 games to get used to shapes until i see them instinctively?

>>18702566
Unless you have a chinitsu hand, it's not that hard to see shapes fast.
Outside of the easy ones like closed waits (35), edge waits (89) and double-sided waits (34), you can build triple-sided waits (34567), use pair+adjacent (344 to advance your hand with 2, 4, 5 or even 3), set+adjacent (3444, same), nobetan (4567 waiting on 4 and 7 to complete the pair).

Count your pairs/sets and see which groups of tile can evolve, e.g if you already have a pair somewhere in your hand, you might want to discard the 3 in 3444, as it'll only help you build a set+pair (e.g 234+44) and you already have a pair.

>>18698849
>>18698818
It would have been nice, but it wasn't the case.

I had a 677pinzu shape and discarded one 7 to create a ryanmen shape, while retaining a 223souzu shape. It would be safer to discard a 2 than a 7 later on. Then riichi was called with 6pin discarded, so naturally discarded 6pin as an immediate follow up. If possible, never give up ippatsu.

As it turned out, 8pin came up to bring a furiten pinfu and gave it a shot. Too bad, 7man was a winning tile.

Oh well. 7447. No shits given.

>>18702017
Not for you, for everyone else. There's a lot of difference in information between a tsumogiri discard and a discard from within the hand. A common one is that if you make an assumption that someone is in tenpai (through calls, long period of fast tsumogiri or pushing dangerous tiles) then they discard a tile from within their hand often it'll turn out that they adjusted their wait in that area, turning shanpon or kanchan into rynamen for example, making the area around the discard very dangerous. A late 7 discard might indicate 7-9 upgrading to 6-7. Never 100% but can affect decision making.

>>18703192
Sorry, late 9. 7 would be from 77 shanpon.

>>18702017
Tsumogiri a number of times in a row? You can generally assume tenpai.

kan!

>>18706526
Are you my friend
>Just played a hanchan with friends
>One declares ron, doesn't even have a yaku
>Know his hand, especially his pon of 8man
>Draw the 4th 8man, but can't use it, whatever
>Fucker wins off from me through Rinshan Kaihou

3:0

>>18706542
Only saki wankers apply the pao rule to daiminkan. It's fun but it encourages unnecessary kans.

>>18706783
I'm not even mad that I had to pay him, it was just 1000 plus 600 for honba anyway. I'm more mad that he won at all. He didn't deserve it after that blunder.

To that anon who just won after riichi: Fuck you, was in Isshanten for Kokushi

>>18706985
Yeah fuck you Cauchy, you're a bad mathematician, ruining my dreams. Actually you're cool, did some sweet stuff

When y'all get a shit starting hand and draw only trash tiles do you start planning betaori or wait and see if it'll get better?

>>18707430
I only betaori if my hand still looks like complete shit at around half of the round.

kokushi!

>>18709051
>13 sided wait
Sweet man, gratz

>>18707110
Mahjong. Where dreams are crushed.

>>18702236
watch any Pro play and you will see I'm correct

>>18710604
While it's true for professional games, in lower level play you should only really be considering immediate efficiency. I remember reading a translated interview with a Tenhoui where he said he doesn't even betaori until he reaches tokujou on alt accounts, that's not the kind of play where you'd keep otakaze for safe tiles.

My joukyuu experience since 1kyuu has been 53+76+111+74
which means 2dan1509R after 314 games.

This isn't normal, right?
Am I an idiot?

>>18710944
That was me until I started a new account. Just keep at it anon eventually you'll get better. Read up on efficiency and defense strategies and focus on not dealing in. Ultimately what pulled me up to the 1800r was better tile efficiency and push pull strategies. Always remember to priorities avoiding fourth.

>>18710944
Looks like your efficiency is just bad. You're probably playing for yaku instead of fast still.

>>18710944
Looks normal (for a developing player) to me. It's hard to guess without replays, maybe you are going into betaori too much, maybe you are pushing at the wrong time? It can be your efficiency, too.

Keep studying and keep practicing. With results like these, just a bit of learning will get you that feeling of improvement.

>>18711617
Is 300 hanchan really developing anymore? That's gotta be an intermediate level. Either way study and not play is the answer.

>>18711640
Assuming begineer is dumb ippan plays then yes. It's nothing impressive though. Something like --intermediate. However I believe that people still can learn to see the game with different eyes at this point. More so because his current play isn't giving him proper results.

>>18710944
You're not used to joukyuu. But keep playing.

Month is ending. Post your stats.

>>18710944
you should post 3 games where you came 3rd or 4th then we'd have a pretty good idea of what you're doing wrong.

>>18711708
My last three games that I ended up 4th in.
http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2018030922gm-0089-0000-8479ed1f&tw=0
http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2018032422gm-0089-0000-06636293&tw=2
http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2018032817gm-0089-0000-8cf7a4ad&tw=3

>>18711849
Why did you defend with 1 sou in this case?
It's true that none of the hakus have been discarded, but they're still less likely to deal in with than 1 sou. 1 sou can form triplets and also runs, wheras the haku can only form triplets.

>>18711849
There's lots of minor efficiency problems all over the place, stuff that all adds up in your long term averages. Getting to tenpai just a couple of turns later because of taking a less efficient route is the difference between you winning or losing the hand and when it happens a couple of times a game it stops you winning. Also you need to be better about defending against open hands, there are many situations where you need to treat an open hand like a riichi and fold appropriately.

>>18711994
I still felt like pushing somehow so I took a stab in the dark and broke the 1s pair. If I could do it again, I would discard 2p.

>>18712110
you felt like pushing your garbage hand into a double riichi (where one is the dealer) and another guy who's likely in tenpai?

>>18712110
Ask yourself, why would you push this hand?
At best it's riichi plus pinfu

>>18711849
>http://tenhou.net/0/?log=2018032817gm-0089-0000-8cf7a4ad&tw=3

Nothing here says that the bird is safe.

>>18712110
Two people in riichi? Let them kill each other.

>>18712127
>>18712131
>>18712164
I have no idea why I did that either but since I didn't fold properly it must mean I was pushing.
It was probably some half-hearted "hopefully this goes through".

>>18712213
>>18712213
>Am I an idiot?
You need to make sure you're concentrating properly on the situation at hand. You need a very good reason to push into a riichi, a ridiculously good reason to push into double riichi and even more so when you're ahead of them.

>>18712164
but there is no safe tile

>>18712412
There are safer tiles.

>>18712412
2p

>>18710604
>>18710656
>While it's true for professional games
But it isn't. I watch houou games all the time and the usual plays you will see involves ditching otakaze early and then picking them up again later.

>>18713824
"professional games" aren't tenhou games, even though the quality of players is the same.

>>18713981
I play both online and with real players and the type of play is vastly different on both platforms even when the players are the same

>>18714627
What's the difference?

>>18713981
Then show us a game of profesionals where one holds on to an otakaze with an average hand from the beginning and I'll try to explain why. From what I've seen so far when good players hold on to otakaze it's usually in one of two situations: The first one is when the hand has other tiles that are equally or only very slightly more useful but more dangerous. This is the type of situation I already talked about and the one that happens mostly later in a hand. It's aso the more common type. The other one is when a hand is so bad that the chance of winning the hand is very low. This happens mostly early in the game but is, of course, rare.

>>18714687
live play tends to be more predictable and tsumo-centric while tenhou is all about laying traps for others to deal into

>>18714839
Why would this be the case? The game is the same so good players should optimize their game in a similar way.

>>18714903
subtle things like tile placement in the walls, knowing players and their quirks, and just the different feel of these rl games I guess?

>always draw the completey useless tile that is shimochas winning tile right after he gets into tenpai

I fucking hate akadora because I always get fucked when I end up in a situation like that because of it.

>cant even declare open riichi

Pros hold honours for long periods of time for a few reasons. Particularly f you're looking at JPML A-league rules, which lack ippatsu, kandora, uradora and akadora, there's a much heavier emphasis on building yaku in your hand because riichi is much weaker. Honours help for hands like honitsu and chanta. Other than that, yes, they're also much safer to keep for later.

In general, kyougi (競技 "competitive") mahjong is very different to online mahjong or jansou play. You're no longer aiming for just fourth place avoidance or winning big, you're aiming to perform well in the league or tournament that you're participating in. You need to take into account the uma, the current overall standings, your performance to date and many other factors. Simply watching a single pro play a single round will never tell the whole story, and it's even harder when you're trying to follow four people at a time and you can't see the discard pond very well. You can't properly put yourself in their shoes to see what they see and think about the same things that they're thinking about. This is why you shouldn't watch pro games (or even houou games) in order to learn, because you can't just copy what they do without understanding why (and when and how) they're doing it.

>>18714839
>tenhou is all about laying traps for others to deal into
I don't know who you've been playing with but real Tenhou is nothing like this.

>>18715522
>REAL TENHOU
ok toughguy

>>18715522
Why not houou games, though? Most of the stuff you said doesn't apply there. Of course you need to think about why they did certain moves but that's always the case. I for one feel I gained quite a lot from watching these games. Usually I pick one player (the one with the highest R) and then watch the game step by step. Before any discard (and before any possible call by my player) I decide what I would do. Then I see what the houou guy did and if his decision differs from mine I try to understand why.

>>18715544
He is right, though. What kind of traps are you talking about? Suji are traps are a thing, yes. I don't think anyone wants to argue against that. And when you have the choice between a tanki wait on an otakaze or a 5 you will usually chose the otakaze because it looks safer, so you might call this a "trap" as well. Of course stuff like that happens, but that is hardly anyones main concern when advancing your hand, because that is tile efficiency.

>>18715655
I'm just saying that "tenhou bullshit" is a thing just based on experience and the commentary you get in here while live play tends to be more straightforward. probably due to the aforementioned emphasis on getting ahead versus 4th place avoidance

>>18715522
>which lack ippatsu, kandora, uradora and akadora

I probably get akadora but what about the rest?

is junchan 5 han because it is also chanta?

>>18715934
>5 han
What

I purposefully target NoNames, I will form my hand around their discards and wait for them to deal my winning tile even if another player has dealt it.

>>18715934
probably because chanta involving honors has a good chance of having a yakuhai in there, so to even the odds junchan is 2(3) han

but then again having junchan might have better odds of keeping your hand closed since you won't have to pon honors

>>18715986
>junchan
>pon honors
What?

>>18716025
reread my sentence and add "unlike chanta" at the end if you still don't get it

>>18716031
yeah but in riichi you apply all yaku to the hand right?

and if a hand is junchan it is also chanta.

so 3+2 would be 5

>>18716048
Doesn't apply to junchan/chanta. Junchan is automatically chanta, so you don't count the chanta han here.
It's not like say Toitoi + San Ankou where you only pon one set and draw 3 others.

>>18716048
>and if a hand is junchan it is also chanta.
No, it isn't.
Junchan doesn't allow any honors in your hand.

>>18716114
chanta doesnt say you must have honors n your hand

2:0

>>18716119
No, if you don't have honor tiles, you get Junchan instead.
The yaku don't work together unlike Shousangen for example. That yaku is 2 han but you also get additional 2 han for the two yakuhai.

>>18715655
The problem is the "trying to understand why" part. Unless you're already houou-level, or at least high tokujou, it's going to be difficult to understand the full thought process behind each decision. Not knowing is fine in itself, but if you try to imitate what people do without fully understanding how and why they decided to do something, it'll backfire on you. That's why it's more effective to learn strategy by reading and discussing things rather than by just watching and relying on your own imagination.

>>18715743
No fun allowed

>>18716267
>Unless you're already houou-level, or at least high tokujou, it's going to be difficult to understand the full thought process behind each decision.
Not really, in my experience. I'm mid-tokujou level, usually somwehere around 1850-1900 R and very rarely do I have problems understanding houou players moves even when I was still at a lower level. The thing is, most hard decisions are hard because of the time limit which many people seem to underestimate. Mahjong is not a game like chess were difficulty comes from having to think a gozillion turns ahead but rather from having to efficiently process a great amount of information in a short time. If you can just take your time, it gets so much easier. Buy doing these you can get a feeling for what information you have to pay attention to in what situation. Mahjong is also relatively objective. There are many instances that can be hard to see but in the end are still objective, like miniscule differences in tile efficiency. Just ask yourself what possible benefits a certain move has in terms of either speed, value or defense and you will usually be able to identify why it's a good choice. Of course reading and discussing is also important, though.

1:4

pls join /jp/

>>18716729
Only because you said please

>>18716738
thank u :)

>>18716267
Seriously, what's the point?

>rng
Why not drop dora too?

>>18652943
>3:0

>>18716756
>Why not drop dora too?
how do you expect me to get han

>thought that the hand shuts down on the fourth kan
>it keeps going
I made a grave error

>>18716850
How else am I going to get suukantsu

>Uradora 5

Fuck you

GG /jp/

>>18716936

>>18716850
Why do you have to be like that?
And then you pulled that saki bullshit right after I got into tenpai

>>18717058
Oh wait, I wanted to post how you denied me my winning tile

>>18717058
I fucked up I somehow miscounted the amount of kans there were. I was trying to end the hand via Suukaikan

>>18717128
Nice try pal but I know exactly that you were just ruining me. Only a high-ranking player would come up with something mean

>>18717364
It's not about making sure I avoid fourth
It's about picking out a dumb nerd and bullying him out of 2nd and 1st.

>2:0

1:0

What is considered to be a good call rate?

>>18722005
Nowadays I don't know. Back in the day I was happy with 8 pesos a minute.

>>18716396
How do you know whether or not you're completely understanding why they're making certain moves? How do you know what pieces of information they're thinking about? It's not hard to come up with simple reasons for things, like
>Oh okay he cut 8p because it's the most efficient
But how do you know how he balanced efficiency with the value of his hand, or what he thinks the other players are doing, or how he's aiming to optimise his final placement given the current round and point situation? You have no idea how he reached that final decision to discard 8p. Different players will also weigh each piece of information differently, especially in complex situations. Digital mahjong may be objective, but analogue mahjong isn't objective at all.

If you can understand Japanese, then watching people stream with commentary can be really good because they explain their decisions. People like Kihara or Yuuse are great at this, and last I checked they both did regular weekly streams. Commentary for pro games tends not to be as in-depth, and streams or videos without any commentary aren't very helpful at all.

>>18722676
>How do you know whether or not you're completely understanding why they're making certain moves? How do you know what pieces of information they're thinking about? It's not hard to come up with simple reasons for things, like
By applying what I do. If I draw a conclusion and then make different assumptions in future games I watch and end up agreeing with the houou players more often I'm very likely going somewhere.

>But how do you know how he balanced efficiency with the value of his hand, or what he thinks the other players are doing, or how he's aiming to optimise his final placement given the current round and point situation?
You can often tell, by method of elimination. If the guys discard leads to a lower hand value and is worse defensively but better in terms of tile efficieny than you can be pretty damn sure that was the reason for the discard. But most important is what I wrote above. If I overgeneralize I will notice by making future mistakes.

>2:0

>>18722005
.6

>>18689507
10+14+11+5
This was a very good month.

>>18723432
That seems really high. And here I thought my .48 might be too much.

2:0

>3:0

>1:4

>>18717370
But for every justice warrior there's also a NoName who just wants to see the world burn.

How many dora would I have if I won?

Never had this happen before.

Do they stack ?

>>18730678
yes they stack. had someone tossed Chun/5pin you would have had a kazoe yakuman (a hand that reaches 13 han through normal means as opposed to special circumstances) which would have been worth 32,000

>>18730678
Toitoi, dora 12, aka, 15 han or 16 if you got the chun but the scoring cut off is 13 for kazoe yakuman. Many rulesets play without Kazoe though, that any hand 11 han or above is counted as Sanbaiman but it's not a Tenhou rule.

>>18724723
.480 is really high. .250-.400 is closer to normal.

>>18730678
jesus fucking christ imagine the despair of dealing into that

>>18730678
>all subreddits

Which team is best on the mahjong table?

>>18731130
you already know

>>18731130
Team PB gets seeded; the rest can fight it out first.

>>18731130
Whatever team I'm on, so let's find out.

>5 teams
Can't even play a round of mahjong with one of each team, Hiro fucked up yet again. Bucker off, it's choco time. Ignore the text in the pic, it's choco

>>18732469
I wouldn't worry about it, your garbage team would finish last so there's no point joining in.

>>18681346
This is happening in just under an hour, we can settle the score.

Aside from playing countless games, what's the best way to learn all the hands
Should I study hardcore?

>>18732736
Try to actually build them while playing. They have to pop up in your head when you need them, so it's no use if you just know them from studying. Also let's you gauge their difficulty if you're just starting

>>18681346
Gotta register in the next 10-15-ish minutes if you want to participate, by the way. Just join the lobby and say in the chat that you want to play.

Chocolate reporting in for the 1:0. Where are the other teams?

>>18733050
Challenge accepted. Team mini ready for battle.

>>18733050
I don't know what my team is.

>>18733050
peanut standing by

>>18733098
Well now you do.

>>18733098
Oh okay. We zenkoku now?

so who won?

>>18733241
No one yet. And the fourth player hasn't announced his allegiance yet.

>>18733241
Based team peep my /v/ros!
And me, your victoly was taken by me! F/v/rudo Erika!!

>>18733294
Erika is a dumb cunt

Peanut reporting in at fourth place

I did it choco bros. First place for us

Final standings

1st - ???
2nd - Chocolate
3rd - Mini
4th - Peanut

>>18653164
If using powers counted as cheating.
Suika
Remilia
Sakuya
Aya
Nazrin
Shou

1:0
pls join

>>18733440
2:0 now.

>>18733440
3:0

I just made a ridiculous 5 hand streak come back in L0. How do you think those nip felt?

>3 uradora
What a lucker

>>18733440
Avenge my fuckups brother

>>18733447
And I, Furudo NoName, strike again :)
All for my true team PEEP

>>18733563
3rd but equal points to 2nd :(

2:0
pls join

>>18733628
Only if you lick Marisa-sama's feet

>>18733615
Your call her had me sweating. Suddenly my hand was a lot worse. What a shame.

Also 2nd for choco, going strong!

>kyuushu kyuuhai
>in 7447

>>18733820
was it optional

>>18733862
Yes. It's like riichi caution, you can just play your hand and ignore it.

What team am I

>>18733977
Team peep at heart, come help your noname friendos destroy namefigs

so why does saki not have temporarily furiten?
in the first episode there are like 3 occasions where someone wins on a tile just discarded by someone else.

>>18734151
Because it's only temporary furiten.

For instance, in the last hand of the first episode: She never declared Riichi so, assuming the 5-pin of Nodoka was not discarded in the same turn as the 5-pin of Yuuki, she could have won with that. It's only that, for the show to be less boring and more consistent, they often skip turns.

>>18734197
i figured it was the same go around

>>18734197
>skipping turns
>not spending multiple chapters on a single turn to make it longer

>>18734245
Spending 10 years on the same hanchan is a bad idea, but is FKMT so I'm not even mad. Imagine the japanese that followed the manga as it was serialized though, month by month.

Hell, I read Ten every year and there are always things I don't remember from one year to the next.

>>18734269
It's only a bad idea because of the wait, but reading those 150 chapters without pauses was absolutely perfect

>>18734269
Blame Takeshobo. I believe FKMT himself didn't want to extend it that long, but there's no flagship title in Kindai to replace it. By the way, where's Kirinji scanlation, you lazy bums?

>>18734336
the ending for me was when akagi looked up at the sky and was envious of wasazi.

>>18734428
It ended there for me as well, unless FKMT makes a sequel based on the next chapters. Beautiful speech and ending.

>>18734428(me)
>>18734449

it has ended now and the extra chapters where somewhat fun.

>>18734501
Yeah, not shitting on those chapters, but 296 was pure kino and a great callback to Ten. 10/10 pottery.
>when my time comes, i'll go as myself

>>18734449
Oh great time to ask /jp/ if the autotranslator is bullshitting me. https://wikivividly.com/wiki/Akagi_%28manga%29#Publication Looks like it's not a sequel for Akagi but more legit chapters with irregular schedule. According to the sited things of this article. It's strange nobody made bigger news outta it if it's true.

>>18736913
Where can you see that?

>>18736923
the wall of the cite notes under the text

>>18737235
>In February 2017, Takeshobo started to display eight different posters at 15 major railway stations on the Yamanote Line in Tokyo to announce the series planned conclusion on February 1, 2018.[10] However, the series editor said it did not mean the manga would really reach its conclusion but that it would continue irregularly.
Oh shit it's real.

>>18737259
>Akagi manga will never reach tenpai
Like fucking pottery.

1:0

>>18739319
Time to avenge my teams honour

there's is still a chance for a comeback victory my follow minis

>>18739472
Could this be the start of your gyakuten?

>>18733918
how do i not riichi, i thought it wasnt optional

>>18739655
Ron and tsumo are also optional.

>>18739669
I wish furiten was optional too

Good god

We did it Peanut bros, we won a hanchan

>>18739677
Why should you ron on yasume tile when you can tsumo on takame instead?

>>18739655
You just don't click riichi and keep discarding

2:0
>>18739712
when should i not riichi im not sure when not to

>>18739735
For now consider it this way, do you need a Yaku? Riichi

>>18739735
Consider the situation that you're in
Do you already have a yaku? Are you ahead by a considerably large amount of points? If that's the case then it might be better to not riichi since you just want to end the game faster. Maybe you already have a ridiculous hand with 3 dora and a yaku. It's already mangan, so maybe you don't need riichi.

But generally if a hand is less than 5 han it's best to riichi