/jp/ - Otaku Culture

You can't learn Japanese.

>>18477684
currently iam watching shirokuma cafe with japanese sutitles and understand about 50%

about 4 years in. but 2 doesnt count because i didnt know what djt is and did retarded stuff like learning kang xi radicals etc.

>>18477774
are you actively trying to learn japanese?
like dedicating some time each week/day in taking lessons or reading in order to learn the language? or your knowledge comes out of regular activities involving japanese (like watching anime for example)

僕は日本の高校生です。僕も英語を話せるようになりたいです！
お互い頑張りましょう

I'm a Japanese high school students.
I want to speak English.

>>18478387
ＪＫじゃなかったら出て行け。

>>18478387
i am an italian high school student that speaks fluent english.
i want to speak japanese.

>>18478427
男だけど許してください。
I am a man but please forgive me.

>>18478454
イタリアの人達はみんな英語を話せるの？
Can Italian people speak English in the usual way?

>>18478260
i dedicate daily time to it. i watched animu for a decade before and didnt grasp anything worth mentioning that the usual stuff like 大丈夫
ｏｒ バカ.

the brain is too lazy to pick things up on the side. highly effective is cramming with subs2srs.

if i did 4 years of this i guess i would be highly advanced by now

>>18478518
you mean if it's normal for italian people to speak english fluently?
if so, no we do learn it as a secondary language in school but most italians dont care about actually learning the language and so they do not bother to actually comprehend it and memorize it.
this is less common in other parts of europe though

>>18478529
i have never used subs2srs, i would love to learn japanese, i do watch animu but other than that i dont do much to learn the language, what would you advise me to do?

>>18478387
私はアメリカのNEETです。私も日本語を話せるようになりたいです。

I am an American NEET. I want to speak Japanese. I hope we both find what we're looking for.

>>18478543
Not him, but read the guide in >>>/jp/djt

>>18478614
i have favorited that website, though i am not too sure about beginning there, has it worked out for you?
my main issue would be that english is a secondary language to me and italian is my main so i would prefer if i could find anything in italian (there is little to nothing worth to be honest).
also if i am not mistaken that guide requires me to already know hiragana and katakana right?
thanks for collaborating

If you're really active about it you can get to a point where you understand the vast majority of anime and manga after around 4 years, not including shit with ridiculous dialogue or plot, but there's never really an end point, you're constantly in the process of learning just while getting better and better at doing so

The real struggle only lasts like 3 years if you really commit yourself

>>18478709
could you go into more details in what you mean by "commit yourself" what would my learning routine look like and by regularly studying or dicking around?
when i think of learning japanese it really seems abnormal in my mind, i self taught myself english basically by talking to people on the internet using google translator an such to help me out (at the age of 13-14), and after a year i was already able to understand people and talk to them, i know english is infinitely easier for a number of reasons but just how hard is japanese, it seems a struggle only to learn words, putting kanji aside, from english to italian there are a lot of words that are alike, but from italian-english to japanese uhh.

Actually started trying about a year and a half ago. Went through anki (ugh) and read about a dozen VNs, now I can read easy things like moege and understand pretty much everything. For something harder, like VNs by Light, I have to look up words and it's slow reading. Can barely write/communicate, or pickup meaning from hearing a conversation in Japanese but I'm okay with that. Just being able to read and improve over time is enjoyable enough.

Learning kanji just happened naturally along with learning words. I'm not in the best position to give advice since I'm not exactly experienced in Japanese but maybe this helps.

>>18478675
Not that anon, but I did find DJT resources helpful, even if the general thread is unpleasant itself.

>requires me to already know hiragana and katakana
Hiragana and Katakana are included but you can learn those anywhere and it shouldn't take long.

I don't know anything about resources in Italian, sorry. I'm a native English speaker but don't understand how anyone learns this language, it must be difficult.

>>18477684
Japanese grammer is ridiculously simple. You can learn it in less than five minutes if you hurry. I'm not joking. All you really need to know is the definitions of は(is), が(is), と(and), も(and), や(or), の(of), …て(imperative tense), …た(past tense), …たい(desire to tense), and …ない(negative tense), and know that descriptive chains work backwards (i.e. how in English we would say "the fish's scales are red", but in Japanese they order it like 赤いの鱗の魚 "redのscalesのfish". Just read it backwards and it will make sense to you.)
Know those things and you know all the grammar you need to read anything that isn't a dialect or slang. Punctuation is exactly the same as English except their double quotes look like this:「」and their single quoutes look like this: 『』and their periods have a hole in them like this:。
There, you now know Japanese grammar. Wasn't that easy.

Memorizing Hiragana and Katakana by flash card should take you about an hour and a half each, so three hours.. You might not have it perfect, but you'll know it well enough to read. Here's the website I used.
http://www.csus.edu/indiv/s/sheaa/projects/genki/hiragana-timer.html
http://www.csus.edu/indiv/s/sheaa/projects/genki/katakana-timer.html
Then read these five minute articles:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dakuten_and_handakuten
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokuon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shi_(kana)

So that's about three and a half hours to learn enough Japanese to start reading books. I personally recommend studying by reading books, no amount of flash cards can compare to testing yourself against actual usage of the language. Use any kind of book you want- Japanese wikipedia, manga, porn, it all works just as well.
If you study for an hour a day, every day, and let me stress that point, EVERY SINGLE DAY, you can expect this kind of time table.

Day One- Have to look up every word and in a dictionary. Massive headaches for the entire period of study.
Month Three- Headaches still present but not as bad
Month Six- No more headaches.
Month Twelve- You can read fast enough to enjoy books in Japanese just as much as you enjoy them in English.
Month Twenty- You will start to think in Japanese.
Month Twenty-Four- You can read as fast as a normal Japanese reading pace if you rush.

If you can't study for an hour a day, although I'm betting you can, study for thirty minutes and double all they numbers in the above timeline. For fifteen minutes, quadruple them. If you can't find fifteen minutes a day to study, you can't learn Japanese.

>>18478773
>Japanese grammer is ridiculously simple.
>赤いの鱗の魚

This isn't even Mount Stupid, it's Hill Stupid.

>>18478750
Like being a neet and spending all your time reading grammar guides, using flashcards for vocab, reading/listening to japanese media, speaking to japanese people on language exchange apps or sites etc

Or even if you're not a neet just making sure you do some of all those things every day when you're able to

Luckily if you love Japanese media there's an infinite supply of manga/anime/LNs/VNs/TV shows all of varying levels from super easy manga for kids to super hard LNs or VNs with high level grammar and vocab, so you'd never run out of stuff to read and watch which is where the majority of your improvement is going to come from, after you get past the initial absolute beginner grammar and vocab stage, which are also both easy to pass with grammar guides and flashcards

>>18478785
Well yeah, you could write it 赤い鱗の魚, but it's an example sentence.

>>18477684
Depends. In my case, since i already know Chinese, Kanji was no problem. However, I started with 0 knowledge on Japanese and came to Japan. Enrolled in a Japanese Language School, in little over 3 months, with ACTUALLY forcing yourself to communicate in Japanese, your Japanese will be at least 30~50% understandable to native Japanese people. Little over a year, about 70~80% understandable. Just know that you will never be 100% because of their own slangs and other forms of speeches, but at least you can make sense of what they are talking about.

>>18478792
You can't use の with i-adjectives you sperg
You probably should have spent longer than 5 minutes on grammar

>>18478806
Well diddle my fiddle, I think you're right. Learn something new everyday.

>>18478773
this was very helpful i appreciate you trying to help me will definitely take your advice

2 years and i am now a veritable master of japanese

>>18478839
Take everything he said about grammar with a giant grain of salt, his "summary" of Japanese grammar barely even covers all of JLPT N5, he's grossly simplifying one of if not the most difficult parts of the language

>>18478870
>Take everything he said about grammar with a giant grain of salt
setting aside the fact you're responding seriously to a post that's got a few red flags for irony, this is slightly inaccurate advice

what everyone should do is completely ignore everything he said about grammar because he's a fucking idiot who actually did spend exactly 5 minutes on it and therefore knows 5 minutes worth of anything about japanese

>>18478862
teach me your ways senpai

>>18478889
I'd prefer to assume he actually is just retarded and isn't so sad that he'd put THAT much effort into a troll post

Figure out a method and then spend as little time as possible on the web in Japanese learning "communities" like djt or kanji koohii or r/learnjapanese. Put that otherwise wasted time towards studying. If you're going to take advice from someone, watch Steve Kaufman's 7secrets of language learning video series and the biggest mistake language learner's make

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLvs_adlo5LANk3SE2CxEgTtisSiV9F2Iu
https://youtu.be/G5IPArDxO40

>>18478790
>Luckily if you love Japanese media there's an infinite supply of manga/anime/LNs/VNs/TV shows all of varying levels

This is a huge aid to learning Japanese. I don't think any other language besides English has this much "fun" media that is readily and easily accessible.

>>18478957
That all depends on your definition of fun. If you're obsessed with classical mythology, learning ancient Greek is going to be a lot more fun than learning Japanese

About 2 years to play games/read, at which point I stopped actively adding words to anki (by active I mean 25 a day). Year more after that to follow conversations on the internet without need to look up anything. Listening isn't as good because I never practised it. Still watch everything unsubbed.

>>18477684
Shit, was going to ask the same thing.
My waifu's manga is starting to get old and forgotten, I thought it wouldn't be forgotten in 10 years but I guess I expected too much.

H-How long will it take me to learn Japanese enough to read manga?
I prefer not to say my waifu's manga name, but it's Seinen and Comedy

>>18479257
>My answer literally being above my post
Oh my god

>>18479266
keep in mind it's not really something you can just stick a number to
likely you'll be able to read manga after like 1 year, just slowly and maybe get confused and then after another year of doing it that way you will find that it's much smoother

>>18477684
Currently learning now. Predicting I'll be pretty fluent by the end of the year.

It's actually extremely easy when you break down into it. The grammar is generally logical and simple to boot. The big cliff most people face is kanji, but once you start actually working on it kanji is pretty easy.

There's a few big things to keep in mind when you want to learn any language, let alone Japanese.

The first is dedication. If you think you'll be able to give it five minutes a day once or twice a week, then give up, you won't learn jack shit. Devote several hours a day every day and you'll much more easily pick it up.

The next is to be smart. Don't beat your head into a wall over and over trying to memorize a few words or kanji. Rote memorization is easily one of the worst ways you can learn anything, let alone a language.

Instead, work to gain a natural understanding of the language. By that, I mean reading books, listening to music and watching videos. Living with natives is the best, of course, but I'm assuming you aren't Japanese/can't afford to spend time in Japan. But just reading and watching things will vastly improve your abilities. Don't try to pause every second and look up every word you don't know. Instead, try reading it in it's entirety first and see if you can pick out the overall meaning. This will help reinforce the vocabulary in your memory, especially if you can figure out the meaning of a word/kanji without needing to look it up from context.

Learning games, of which there are a multitude available for Japanese, are a great help.

Finally, there's a wealth of free online sources to help you learn. Currently, I'm using Tae Kim's guide, LingoDeer and occasionally duolingo (don't recommend the last one too much, though.) Just whatever you do, DO NOT RELY ON ROMAJI (which is "Japanese" spelled out in English characters.) Romaji is absolutely useless and will cripple your learning capabilities. Just memorize the alphabet (super easy in Japanese thanks to it's simple phonetic alphabet) and use that to understand instead. LingoDeer, for example, allows you to turn Romaji off and rely on Hiragana for how to pronounce Kanji.

Source: I know three languages, learning a fourth.

>>18479503
Alright, thank you for your response anon.
I think I can give some dedication to it from time to time and especially on vacations, since somehow I learn Japanese best like >>18479616 said.
I'll give all my mental power to learn Japanese because of my waifu, hopefully I will learn it and be fluent by 2020 just like every anon ITT.

>>18479616
>Predicting I'll be pretty fluent by the end of the year

You won't.

>>18478387
Why?
I thought Japanese high school students were the last stand against the English Empire.
If we fall, all is lost.

>>18479948
I know, how dare someone want to learn the lingua franca

>>18479835
>be fluent by 2020
um shoot for the moon i guess

>>18479835
>waifu
>>>/a/

>>18479942
Hate to break it to you but once you learn one language it becomes piss easy to learn the next.

>>18480212
Wrong

>>18480212
Famous last words of many an ESL. Looking forward to seeing you posting in a month or two about how you gave up because Japanese was so much harder than the piss easy euro languages you breezed through.

>>18478773
if this was a reddit post i would hit the downvote button faster than you can say "the most retarded thing i've read this decade."

>>18478918
Thanks for the procrastination material recommendation anon.

>>18478387
>ergo wo hanaseru
>Not ga

Fake,no native japanese would make that mistake.

>>18479616
I think of "fluent" as not only being able to read, but carry on full blown, complex conversations with little to no difficulty.

I can read most VNs and games by now, but no way would I consider myself "fluent", by mine or most other people's standards. And I probably never will be unless I start speaking/language production in general which I doubt I will ever bother with.

you can [not] learn japanese

>>18478518
イタリア人は英語があまり好きじゃないです
私の住んでいるところの田舎人たちは英語よりフランス語好きすぎ

>>18481834
日常会話で「は」「を」「が」を使わない事が多いから文章がおかしかったみたいです。
日本人なのに指摘されてしまいとても恥ずかしいです。
ごめんなさい。

I am embarrassed.
I'm sorry.

>>18478583
共に頑張りましょう！！
Let's work hard together.

私は海外の方達とアニメについて語りたいです。
だから英語が話せるようになりたいのです。
私はCLANNADが大好きです。
I would like to talk with foreign people about animation.
So I want to be able to speak English.
I like CLANNAD.

>>18480304
language difficulty is relative you linguistically ignorant idiot

>>18478387
かまってちゃんは/int/に行ってくれ。

>>18480083
Fuck off moron.

>>18477684
6 years to be able to understand "basic" Japanese and read manga. 10 years to be able to read actual literature. 12 years to be able to watch anime/movies without subtitles.

>>18479616
You can do it!

>>18478773
Dumbest shit I've ever read, stop spreading lies 出来ない

>>18479616
>Predicting I'll be pretty fluent by the end of the year.
I love this anon's enthusiasm, but unless you are spending 6+ hours a day reading or already know Chinese or Korean, I don't think that's reasonable.

Guys just use duolingo and watch anime

>>18488343
I know a guy using duolingo, it looks like the stupidest fucking thing ever. I feel bad for him, but I guess I was a dumb kid trying out literal kanji flashcards at one point.

>>18479616
>Instead, work to gain a natural understanding of the language.
In my experience this is the best way to learn a language, educational books and classes don't even compare to learning organically.
I'd add that you should take part in conversations as you are learning. Repeatedly trying to find the right words and sentence structure to get across a message will get you to learn much faster about them.

>>18488508
Most people on /jp/ don't care about speaking Japanese. If your goal is reading, investing time and energy into learning production is a waste

>>18488518
i personally can't imagine that it's possible for someone incapable of stringing a sentence together to be capable of genuinely appreciating prose in that language

How can I reset when anki cards are due? I have a gap between classes and I would love to do anki during that time, but the new session is still not available till later in the day.

>>18483232
>tfw I corrected to grammar of a native japanese person

Feels good man,but don’t worry about hangout here and watch American cartoons,and you’ll start getting good at English soon enough.

>>18490397
The, the grammar. Dammit I’ve shamed myself.

>>18483232
>>18478387
>>18490401
KYS LARPING NIGGER

>>18477684
Depends what you mean by learning Japanese. I started reading Dies Irae after half a year of learning and Muramasa after a year of learning. Struggled for both of them but after the half way point it was smooth sailing. Followed the DJT guide like a good boy.

>>18478773
Japanese grammar is so complex they still haven't managed to accurately describe the rules behind は and が. It's not like there are so few rules you have to know, it's just that most of them can't be put into words.
Japanese grammar being easy is a meme and you fell for it.

2 years and I don't know hiragana

after 6/7 months of getting blasted with old men who yelled at me for being american because they still hold a grudge for losing the war, being threatened to be shot/stabbed/beaten by chinpira because i was a dirty gaijin in the countryside, and drinking until the sunrise with after hours hostesses i learned everything i needed to know there; and the rest that i didn't i just took calligraphy classes during the afternoon when i wasn't working and was sober. 3 years later i went home and now make a decent living off translations. If you are serious and wanna learn either find someone who can walk the walk or go to Japan, it's not that hard. You gotta find the way that works for you and stick with that.

>>18477684
>not taking into account learning the kanji, just words and the grammar in general.
not how it works

I don't know/study Japanese, but after years of watching anime, I noticed random Japanese words phrases pop into my head. Sometimes even as a response to something I am hearing. I don't even think about what it translates to it just naturally occurs in my head and looking back the phrases were always appropriate to what I was hearing. Is this how babies and toddlers learned how to speak?

>>18492226
Not sure, but I think infants learn to speak from their parents talking to them and not from years of anime.

>>18492244
not japanese infants. that's exactly how they learn

>>18477684
this is my 3rd year now and im still shit, because i slowed down vocab dramatically and stopped reading or practicing grammar almost entirely.

i know a few more words but im really no better than those first few months of practice where i was focused and motivated. keep telling myself i'll get back on it but i never pull the trigger. fuck i hate myself

>>18477684
Best way to learn japanese is to date a /jap/ girl. can confirm that shit. my friend's high school sweetheart was japanese, he now speaks pretty fluently after a couple years

>>18477684

I've been going for about 13 years and I'm roughly at kindergartener level. I think something is wrong with my brain because my mature accuracy in anki has dropped from 95% to 75% in the past 2 months. This always happens a few thousand words into the deck and I end up just leeching everything or abandoning the deck and starting over a few months later. I'm fine with everything but vocabulary, which, despite having known probably 20k+ words in the past, I can never seem to store more than about 6k.

>>18494067
>I've been going for about 13 years

What the fuck

play untranslated games with a text hooker and dont you dare to come up with awful baka gaijin sentences that look like they came from english in the first place. memorize idioms/sentences as they show up in whatever media you're consuming, don't make shit up with western sentence structure.

>>18483370
全部アニメは悪いですね
All anime is bad, don't you think?

>>18494175
>>18494445
I laughed at the juxtaposition of these two posts.

>>18491593
>Japanese grammar is so complex they still haven't managed to accurately describe the rules behind は and が
The rules aren't that complicated. First of all, が can only mark the subject of a sentence (nominative case) in Standard Modern Japanese, while は is not a case particle at all, which is why you have examples such as では, には, and also をば in Classical Japanese. The main usage of が is either to emphasize the subject of a sentence or to mark the subject as "new information." This is why it's used with question words: 誰が来たの？ and in the corresponding answer 友達が来た。Meanwhile, は is often used to mark a noun that has come up before or is otherwise known to the listener; you say お母さんは元気ですか even if you're bringing up the listener's mother for the first time because it's assumed that the listener already knows who their mother is.

Things get more complicated when you get into the non-subject usage of が which is more common in Classical Japanese. There are also a ton of adjectives and intransitive verbs that take が in Japanese with corresponding verbs in English that take objects. Common examples are 嫌い, 好き, and the intransitive verb in transitive/intransitive doublets like 付ける/付く and なす/なる. What doesn't change is that が is still used to mark the subject with these verbs, it's just that what is a subject in Japanese is sometimes an object in English.

>>18490656
Not larping, ask myutwo for board ids if you don’t believe me.

>>18494158
>You will never learn Japanese.jpeg

I've watched namasensei and am now fluent in japanese.

Reading, listening, talking, these three are important.
If I can study these 3 everyday, it is almost OK in 3 months.

>>18491593
>Followed the DJT guide like a good boy.
Does that include doing RTK 1 or 1+3?

>>18491805
How can I make a decent living off translations?

I am a little more than a year in and I am going to attempt to pass N2 this summer. I know that I will fail but I hope to at least "see the end of the tunnel" there and motivate myself to actually pass it next winter.

I have spent my first year learning nothing but vocab and I've only started studying Kanji separately a month and a half ago. I am almost 1000 kanji in and I should be able to finish before May. Naturally good recognition rate would take months of repetition on top of that but at least it won't be taking up half of my day anymore. After that I will start crunching on grammar and n5-n2 words I haven't learned yet.

By this point I can watch some anime fairly well, understanding up to 70-80% of the stuff but thats only in simple SOL shows like Maid Dragon. Made in Abyss utterly wrecks my shit.

I would kill for a native speaking partner but my grammar is so bad I probably wouldn't be able to convey the most basic stuff without sounding like a gorilla.

Japanese became my biggest passion in life right after drawing and I fucked up the latter one hard enough to want to succeed at least with a foreign language.

Sorry for blogposting but there is no one I can really share it with outside of here.

>>18500588
You seem to have made good progress. Many people claim to have a passion for something, but don't actually involve themselves with their whole hearts all the time. It's refreshing to hear about people who do. I envy your resolve, and hope to emulate it myself in my own studies and practices.

With that in mind, is there anything that you have found to be notably effective or ineffective in all this time? What strategies and methods have been the most fruitful, enjoyable, etc. ?

>I would kill for a native speaking partner but my grammar is so bad I probably wouldn't be able to convey the most basic stuff without sounding like a gorilla.

If you intend to do a language exchange, I'm sure that would be expected, if not returned equally. Really, I doubt there is much you can do to fix your speech without actually using it. Many polyglots and linguists claim that active conversational/speech use of a foreign language (mistakes and all) is one of the best ways to improve fluency. Best to activate it in an environment of welcoming give and take, wouldn't you agree? Services like HelloTalk, Lang-8, and more should offer plenty of willing, interested conversation partners. Consider trying one of them.

>>18477684
depends on what you mean. if you're smart then it takes a couple months to get grammar and tense structure and stuff. then it takes a long time to build kanji and a very long time to build listening comprehension. i don't think you will be able to be a fluent speaker if you learn "on your own."

>>18491805
You are lying

>>18502512
I'm guessing he just doesn't correctly remember how shit he was after 6 or 7 months, or chose to phrase his post in a very misleading way.

>>18502400
>With that in mind, is there anything that you have found to be notably effective or ineffective in all this time? What strategies and methods have been the most fruitful, enjoyable, etc. ?

So far the only true mistake I regret is not studying Kanji properly from the very start. And by "properly" I mean learning to recall complete stroke order and example words using both on- and kun after exposing yourself to the keyword.

I know it's a bitch and it can't replace proper vocab studies but it is absolutely worth it in the long run. If doing 15-20 kanji per day is too intense for you then do 5-10 but do it properly nonetheless.
Do this even if you have no intention of ever writing in Japanese too. It drastically improves your reading skills and makes it much easier and faster to study vocabulary. It may not be very intuitive but it will save you both time and energy in the long run.

>>18504145
I appreciate that you took the time to respond. By coincidence, I have been doing a hefty kanji study routine for nearly a week now.

I've been doing 40 new kanji daily, and I'm getting between 89% and 95% accuracy every day. I finished my reviews for today, and will be doing the 40 cards for all the new kanji I've studied (I write every single one out on paper at least once for posterity and enjoyment). I'll be at 200 down afterwards (1/11 of 2200). My goal is to have RTK 1 completed by Saturday, April 21st. Ultimately, I will have completed RTK 1 in under two months, with very sufficient results. I feel my methods, though a potential strain of time (if care isn't taken), have been very effective.

I chose not to learn example words or readings, but I have found notable results in even this short time of dedicated study. My ability to remember words in context is much better than my ability to remember the kanji they are composed of. It's like 背中--I read that term years ago, and remembered the reading being せなか and that it meant the back of a body/human. Now, I can now more easily recognize it with the kanji.

Your knowledge of vocabulary and grammar are surely much better than mine, and I haven't pushed through the kanji as much as you have, but I encourage you to keep doing RTK. We're going to make it--we just have to keep pressing onward. Remember that.

>>18504238
>I chose not to learn example words or readings
I take you are not learning to write them either.

You should not halfass any aspects of it even if you still feel progress. Things that you skipped will not magically materialize in your head on their own. If you are willing to exert yourself to study 40 kanji per day the way that you do now then you are more than capable of learning 10-20 properly instead.

I know that the idea of being done with all of 常用 so fast is extremely tempting but you won't really be "done" with them if you cheat like that. Your lazy mind is merely playing tricks on you. One day you will just wake up realizing that you can't write/your reading speed is not good enough/you keep forgetting things that you can recall just fine when doing flashcards.
Then you will realize that you could have been done with all of that months of years ago if you chose to do it properly from the get go.

Take it from someone who already had to deal with this shit.

Like, what's even the point of learning Kanji that don't make up words you already know if you are not going to remember readings or associated vocab?

can i learn enough japanese to watch raw anime without subtitles?

can i learn enough japanese to watch raw anime without subtitles by just using the duolingo app?

>>18504545
>I take you are not learning to write them either.
On the contrary--I am. Stroke order is something that is easily learned passively. I just have to do it once to automate it in the future. As I said, I write each one at least once (even if I know it well). If it isn't satisfactory in appearance/form, I may rewrite it. If I forget it, I may likely write it again on another piece of paper.

In regards to speed of writing/reading, it's been quite good. So, I think the readings aren't something to fret over so much until I learn them within the context of vocabulary. I would agree with you if I couldn't visualize and write kanji correctly, but the results have suggested otherwise for the most part.

>Like, what's even the point of learning Kanji that don't make up words you already know if you are not going to remember readings or associated vocab?

Perhaps our minds just function a bit differently? I've studied plain vocabulary without RTK like you have in the past, and while it worked to an extent, the amount of time required to brute force it, and the unimpressive level of memory solidification was simply not acceptable. I often found myself remember readings and meanings very fluidly, almost without effort. Yet, kanji often blurred words for me. So, if I can establish a strong kanji database, I should be able to accumulate vocabulary very quickly, even without learning isolated kanji readings. That doesn't mean I won't know them either--背中 from before is a good example. せ + なか。Multiple readings can be acquired just by finding the associated words as well (年中 for instance). Personally, I think this is a more efficient manner of kanji readings acquisition, and a better way to avoid mixing them up as well.

I do appreciate your concern, though. I will keep it in mind should I experience any of the problems you've mentioned.

>>18504610
Unlikely. I would argue, no.

>>18477684
>not taking into account learning the kanji

You can learn katakana, hiragana, and grammar rules in literally 2 hours, even if you're not that good with language. The kanji is pretty much the entirety of learning the language, and it's a hell of a trip.

I'm just over a year in and I can read and understand most things up to novels that aren't terribly "hard" or have an absurd unique kanji count.
When I come across an unfamiliar word, regardless of whether or not I can recall its reading, I'm able to infer the correct meaning most of the time. Checking the dictionary is usually not necessary unless I want to double-check a meaning or reading.
Listening is decent. I stumble when they start to use more technical terms relating to a specific field, but that's just something that requires a lot of getting used to.

>tfw done with studying and Anki reps

You know, it's a serene feeling. Like the gentle silence after a storm, with lovely waves tumbling sweetly into the bay. There's no excessive excitement or sense of defeat, nor any significant hit of fatigue. Just a humming satisfaction, caked in relief. A meditative contentment.

>>18483232
>僕も英語を話せるようになりたいです！
>僕も英語が話せるようになりたいです！
どっちも正しいでしょ？デジタル大辞泉より引用。
>を（格助詞）：１ 動作・作用の目標・対象を表す。
>が（格助詞）：２ 希望・好悪・能力などの対象を示す。

About 9 months for jouyou kanji, about 1 year for N2-ish, and 1.5 years to pass N1.

>>18477684
The only difficulty of Japanese is kanji, the rest is fairly simple as far learning a new language goes

>>18505555

Completely wrong. The difficulty is learning 40 fucking thousands words. A few thousand kanji made up of a few hundred radicals is nothing compared to that.

I started in August 2012 with the DJT on /a/. I learned 5 new kanji per day with KanjiDamage and Anki. I studied for about a year and half that way then I moved to Japan. I'm native level (took JLPT N1 for the first time last year, finished 1 hour early and got 180/180) now, but that first year and a half was huge, I was already basically fluent by the time I got to Japan. I've basically never seen another whitey who can speak Japanese better than me excluding people who were raised here.

>>18504610
absolutely no chance, and not even remotely close

>>18479942
>>18480266
I can taste the bitterness from here! Wow!

>>18505942
Dunning-Kruger effect

>>18506141
Why would anyone be bitter about a delusional beginner? When I was starting out I had similar delusions of being fluent in a year. But it's simply not possible unless you have pathetically low standards for fluency. You won't be reading anything without a dictionary in a year, you won't be able to understand television news, and you won't be able to express ideas beyond a primitive level. You can "fluently" ask for directions to the train station, I guess. There might be exceptions for Chinese or Korean people who work very hard. No one who has learned Japanese to an advanced level could disagree with this.

>>18477684
6-8 years via osmosis from playing many JRPGs, but I am not quite done yet because I can't speak the language but can read and listen without much trouble..

On some family trips to japan my sister was often mistaken by the locals as a local jap herself or at least born/raised in Japan, she self-taught herself to N1 by watching Arashi videos in her youth and think I am at around N2-1 level.

>>18506141
They are not wrong though, unless like >>18488323 said, you won't get anywhere near fluent-levels unless you are spending a shitload of time or already have another East-Asian language under your belt.

There's also the possibility that you may have a knack for learning languages, but we will probably never know unless we see that anon's progress in action.

>>18491805
>being threatened to be shot/stabbed/beaten by chinpira because i was a dirty gaijin in the countryside
Sounds fun, can you tell me more?

>>18505665
You don't even use or encounter third of those 40 000-50 000 words in your native language. Most of them are human names (the biggest bitch here but still manageable), archaic shit, technical jargon, tree and animal names etc.

>>18507651

The average speaker of a language knows about 20-30k words. You can be functionally fluent in English with 15k. In Japanese, the number is higher, 40-50k on average, with 15k being pretty useless.

Japanese has an exceptionally high number of words.

Remember this

Someone with an iq of 120 can pickup japanese far quicker than someone with 100 right?

>>18509673
According to my calculations, approximately ~20% faster, yes.

>>18509921

That's not how IQ works. Someone with 50 IQ isn't half as fast as someone with 100 IQ, they're exponentially slower. So slow that they functionally can't even learn most things.

>>18509673

Only if it is the right kind of IQ. Having higher than average spatial reasoning but lower than average verbal intelligence is going to make one slower at language learning than one with an average level of both.

>>18510956
What are your thoughts on websites like HumanBenchmark ( https://www.humanbenchmark.com/ )? I wonder what I may excel at the most, and what I lack.

>>18478773
he is right though, it's all oversimplified and vague, that even native speakers have trouble getting to the exact point (also one of the reasons they don't understand sarcasm). There is just no way to say "exactly" what you want or think, but instead you puzzle it together so that the general meaning get's through. And even then, the same thing can mean multiple things. In the recent years they've been questioning their educational approach, and pushing Eigo further into the front.

Why do you think English is so popular? It's also simple, but easy to get to the point, and there are multiple ways to do so. On the other side Japanese plays on casual, or polite versions of the same meaning.

Don't be such weebs.

>>18488521
my spirit animal

Just try to use the language as much as possible. That's how I learned English and it's how I'm learning Japanese.

>>18512378
If you were trying to make a post even dumber and less informed than the one you were replying to, congratulations.

>>18512378

>they don't understand sarcasm

Don't know why anyone tries to make this claim when Japanese media contains sarcasm. Do you think they just put it in there to confuse the Japanese audience?