/jp/ - Otaku Culture

>to a better king, and a better man

He read the spoilers. like you lost the game

He got sick and died

Anti-world phantasm vs. army. GUESS WHAT HAPPENS.

He got the flu and died or something. Ptolmiac Egypt was pretty cool though.

>>1842168
>to a gayer king, and a gayer man
Gil's canon man Enkidu is more famous than Alex's, giving him the edge.

>>1842178
ea is like a plot device made to kill off anyone but the main character.

>>1842168
Alexander was the better king and man.

needs more Genghis Khan

I thought he was an emperor

>>1842197

It is, since we know absolutely nothing about it besides its raw power.

He suffered from the Worf Punctuation (similar to the Worf Effect): when a character becomes too awesome, he must be eliminated.

Happened to Wolfwood, happened to Kaji, happened to Gai, happened to Hughes ...

>>1842160
> Class : Rider

Yeah....

>>1842283
we all know riders are weaker than archers. Haven't you play enough STG?

Only reason to read Fate/Zero.

>>1842283

It's actually pretty amazing how fucking bad the Rider class is. Everyother class generally has something going for them but Rider class?

Saber's are essentially the most well rounded thus are considered "The strongest class"

Archer's seem to be the class with the most varaity considering the people we have been shown summoned as them.

Assasins all have the ability to preform deadly fast One Hit KO's.

Berserkers are....Well,Beserkers. They can shake off almost any attack and pressure back with a seemingly impossible Physical force.

Casters have their magic which can be manipulated into some pretty stupidly powerful things.

Lancers are Range,Power and Speed shoved into one weapon. Shouldnt have to explain farther than that.

>>1842333
The Rider class produced the totally awesome Iskander, KING OF CONQUERORS! And the sexy version of Medusa.

That alone makes the class win.

>>1842333

And Arturia could ride everything except dragons anyway, making the Rider class kinda redundant.

>>1842351
Actually, Saber cannot ride Holy or Demonic beasts, so no Pegasus hijack.

>>1842333
Rider (medusa) withe her eyes out could match for a certain while Black Saber.
That alone is pretty good.

>>1842160
Because Saber didn't kill Gilgamesh fast enough.

Because Kiritsugu didn't give her Avalon.

if only riders had FZ Beserker's ability.

>>1842333
If you think about it, Rider is actually the MOST versatile. You never know what a Rider's going to throw at you, every other class you can predict somewhat what they have. But not Rider, all you know is that they're going to ride something at some point in the process of trampling you.

>>1842389
That's when she had Shinji as a Master.

Shinji.

I mean, really. You can't blame her for that.

>>1842363
And she was one hit killed by Kuzuki.

I think Rider class heroes are more like Siege Weapons in concept.

>>1842227
I like this theory.

He was just too awesome to live.

>>1842389
If we go by in-game info, it's quite probable that for Shinji to be spared, she had to let herself be one-hit killed.

But it was Still motherfucking Kuzuki who raped fucking Saber.

>>1842370
Riders and Archers. The problem is that Riders can't always use their full abilities. This shows not how bad the Rider class is but how strong Medusa and Iskander are. Rigged class.....god level servant.

>>1842333

You only got Saber and Lancer right, the rest is shit explanation.

Assassin = Must be one of the leaders of al-assassin. The problem is that heroes are considered stronger by having a greater identity and legend, but each leader shred that by taking up the name of Hassan-i-Sabah. That's why you get a crappy servant who can be taken down by Kotomine Kirei. The rest of the time, he needs back-up from the ero-blackhole.

Berserker = generally weak heroic spirits who RAGE'd at some point in their life. also are big mana hogs to their masters. The thing is that both berserkers that were summoned happened to be strong Heroes, except that Lancelot ate up his master's mana to nothing, while Hercules lost a lot of brain cells and could only swing his sword-axe around.

Caster = Most heroic spirits can handle magic pretty easily, which is why caster's go on the defensive and set up a temple to broker more mana.

Rider = Medusa's NP is pretty powerful, and just a grade lower than Excaliblast. Alexander's Gordius Wheel wasn't much, but he had an EX reality marble instead.

I wonder if Rider would've won if He still had Waver's mana.

>>1842363

Shit probably wouldn't work though. Rider goes for her blinders and gets promptly chopped in half.

>>1842469
...Wait, what?
It actually happens.

>>1842469
>I didn't read HF

>>1842363

What is this bad grammar? Christ, learn to speak English before you post.

>>1842469

Yeah, it happened, though it was pretty dumb.

>>1842363
It's said in game that even weak servants are hard to kill. If you were paying attention you knew that Rider was wearing herself out while Saber stood her ground effortlessly.

The only thing Saber ever rode was Shirou.

>>1842363

Thats more of a Servants personal skill than a class skill. My beef with riders is that they are supposed to be RIDING things yet whenever they engage someone in combat they uh...You know...Are not riding something.

Then later on its like "HMM,I CANNOT BEAT THEM IN HAND TO HAND! NOW IM BLEEDING AND I AM IN TROUBLE,SURE DID NOT SEE THIS COMING!".

You cant blame them for this though because apparently the things they ride count as their Noble Phantasm,which they need to SUMMON by using PRECIOUS MANA.

You know what this means? Imagine if you summoned some legendary Biker Average stats and no weapon. He engages with a Servant,loses his arm and,well...You're fucked.

End of story.

>>1842520
Motorcycles

>>1842520

She had a motorcycle in Zero.

>>1842494
After realeasing her eyes, Medusa (rider) was potent enough to match Black Saber in battle.
Even if it was just for a limited period of time, it allowed for the strategy planned by Rider and Shirou to work (forcing Black Saber to respond with Excalibur against Bellerephon, and Shirou intervening).

There.

How does this even work.

>>1842531

Much better. Is it so hard to speak American English?

That aside, Rider would have died horribly without Shirou there, and as it was, Shirou still had to finish Saber off.

Frankly, Rider pretty much sucks no matter what she does.

>>1842541

Go really, really fast.

>>1842543
She's good at giving erotic dreams.

>>1842520
Saber's riding = B
Rin's riding = E
Sakura's riding = EX+++

>>1842549

THAT should be her Noble Phantasm.

>>1842543
Look, I just woke up.Getting my point across by typing random words takes priority over presentation.
I have to tyre or write 'prim and proper' for my job, let me fucking unwind a bit.

>>1842554
that slut

>Sakura's riding = EX+++

So good I could vomit.

>>1842554

What a slut.

>>1842543

About the only thing that can single-handedly stop Saber is Gil, so really your comparisons aren't fair.

And only retards think that Assassin is a powerful class.

>And only retards think that Assassin is a powerful class.

Yeah...

It's pretty sad when Fake Assassin is better in all ways than True Assassin.

>>1842543
But Medusa never failed to become Nasu's favorite character.

>>1842568
Assassin's job is to stay undetected and survive till he can kill the enemy MASTER.

But they had Kotomine and Zoken as masters, who misused them as much as possible (acting as baits, distractions, scapegoats etc)

Assassin's good at killing normalfag masters. That's it. Anything with real power, whether it be a magus worth his salt or another servant you better run the fuck away.

>>1842576

Large Breasts, Long Hair, Shapely Legs.

It's not about her character.

>>1842574
Hey now, True Assassin killed Lancer, and unless you do everything involving him perfectly, he kills everyone else a few times too. Fake Assassin just gets his ass handed to him by Saber a couple times, and serves as the gateway for Hasan.

>>1842582
Nasu likes healthy women while Takeuchi likes the loli.

Your job is to be a tyre? That sucks, I bet your boss really rides your ass.

>>1842584

Fake Assassin fights Saber to a standstill with PURE FUCKING SKILL, and she only gets away with her head because his (non-magic) sword gets bent.

He's fucking extreme as hell.

>>1842584

True Assassin blew his MOST POWERFUL ATTACK to catch Lancer off guard. He then proceeded to get his ass handed to him regular.

>>1842589

>Fake Assassin fights Saber to a standstill with PURE FUCKING SKILL

And situational advantage.

I HAVE THE HIGH GROUND HURRRRRR

>>1842584
Actually, Lancer was blocked by the Shadow too.
So, it was double play.

And Fake Assassin, with no magical skills, being a spirit that was NOT known enough to enter the Heroic Spirits ranks, just a terrain advantage pure swordsmanship, faced of the likes of Saber, Archer etc and was not killed on the spot.

>>1842599

The high ground that stops him from using his real technique.

>>1842589
But Assassin had the advantage of high ground in every fight.

>>1842587
Takeuchi likes Muscular Men(Berserker) and lolis(Saber....yeah).

>>1842602
and on equal ground he'd get chopped in half

Hey now. Zouken used True Assassin pretty good. I mean, he was one of the last Servants to stay alive, amirite? He killed Kuzuki and Assassin too.

>>1842619

Tsubame Gaishi disagrees with you. EVEN SPEEDWAGON WAS AFRAID.

>>1842620
He uses assassin and the SHADOW good.

>>1842568

>And only retards think that Assassin is a powerful class.

Assasin's job is to stay stealthy. He's isnt supposed to be a "Powerful" Class his only job is to KILL. Not look flashy doing it,just outright kill people. In that reguard you could say he is the most ideal class if you want to avoid injuries yourself so he has a purpose.

Fake Assasin was misusing the Assasin class thats why he pretty much got his ass handed to him. He could have probably killed Saber if he just abandoned all of his Samurai bullshit. True Assasin had the right idea in mind when it came to using his abilities.

By your terms they are not a "Powerful" class but they are a very dangerous force to have around. Assasins are most likely the whole reason the Holy Grail War is labeled as "GRIMDARK" by the characters in the FSN universe.

Eye like muscular women.

>>1842600
Exactly. He shouldn't have been an Assassin, and could probably have been even better at Saber than Arturia if he was a real Heroic Spirit.

Meanwhile, True Assassin got stuck being a scapegoat, diversion, direct combatant, etc., all stuff he's completely not suited to do. The fact that he even survived as long as he did is amazing, considering he went toe-to-toe with Lancer, Saber, Caster, and fuck-all else. Even with an advantage, an Assassin taking on any other class head-on and lasting more than a few seconds is impressive.

>>1842640
Fake Assassin was not even 'Assassin', just swordfighter really.
It's not like he has many options.
He can't even get away from his fucking gate.

>>1842646
That gate has awesome bgm though.

>>1842646

Well, not much was actually known about what's-his-face-who-Musashi-pwned.

>>1842654

The gate should have won the Holy Grail.

>>1842660

Sakaki Kojiro wasn't even real. They just slapped the name on the guy who fit the bill.

>>1842660
Here's a protip:
Even if Sasaki Kojiro existed, this guy is NOT him.

Since Caster is a Servant, she could not summon a normal Heroic Spirit.
With the Gate as the catalyst, she summoned a 'local' hero who would fit as close as possible the requirements of Sasaki Kojiro (physical appearance is a tangible thing for servants after all).

Thus, you have a guy who developed sword skills on his own, mastered Tsubame Gaeshi, but since he probably practiced alone he never became a known hero, thus didn't enter the Throne ever after death.
But his skills were close to the 'real thing', thus enter Fake Assassin.

>>1842668
>>1842681

The person doesn't have to actually exist to become a heroic spirit.

Unless you're telling me Hercules and Medusa tromped around sometime.

But yeah, not famous enough to be a true Hero. Maybe Miyamoto Musashi himself would've been better?

>>1842640
>He could have probably killed Saber if he just abandoned all of his Samurai bullshit.

/facepalm
He's binded to the mountain, and either way it was a de-powered Saber who kicked his ass. What's he gonna do against Excalibur, throw swallows at it?

And take a look at the system of the Holy Grail. The stronger a Heroic Spirit's Identity, Legend, Feats, and Noble Phantasm, the more powerful it is. But Assassin is already skewed this way, since all Assassins must be one of the Hassan-i-Sabah that led the al-assasin group. Since they threw away their identity to assume a new one, add that their cloak and dagger stuff = lost in the annals of obscurity, Assassin class will generally give a mediocre Servant. They'll still be superhuman in some way, and can still be properly utilized, but it's still pretty much the bottom of the barrel.

I wonder what catalyst Sakura used to summon Rider.

>>1842698
she used this
*grabs dick*

>>1842691
They existed in the TM universe, a world of magic, vampires and Shikis.

if you're talking about Fate Zero he ran out of Noble Phantasm

He wasted most of his army NP earlier to fight Caster's lovecraft monster

He used his chariot against Saber

by the time he fought Gil he was very nerfed

>>1842704

Then Sasaki Kojiro could well have existed too.

>>1842712
...Yes, but unlike the other servants, even WITHIN the TMverse, they say 'Sasaki Kojiro was real? Dunno'.
His authenticity is questioned in-game.
Hence the whole point of 'Fake assassin' and 'Summoning that broke the rules'.

>>1842722

Wasn't that only in the "RL-myth story" character description book thing?

Are you sure if that's supposed to be in-universe or fourth-wall breaking?

It doesn't really matter if a person named Sasaki Kojiro existed, or not. If he did, then he lived a man, was defeated and died without ascending to become a heroic spirit.
Only in the legend of another was his name preserved, but preserved it was - and this fragment of remembered existence, real or not, was all Caster needed to summon an approximate of a servant. If the actual person she ended up summoning actually lived, if he was named Sasaki Kojiro, or even if he is nothing but a figment of a collective imagination, is irrelevant.

>>1842698

None, when there isn't a catalyst involved, and it's a proper summoning (I'm looking at you, Caster and Karia) you'll summon a Servant most similar to yourself. It's what happened between Ryunosuke and Caster, who are both sociopaths, and Sakura and Rider, who are victims of tragedy.

>>1842582

well rider is a cumdumpster rapeslut

>>1842766
>well sakurais a cumdumpster rapeslut

>>1842694

>What's he gonna do against Excalibur, throw swallows at it?

Oh I dont know,just generally not fuck around? He wasnt fighting to kill her at all it was all for pure enjoyment. Hell he even actually TOLD her to stop fucking around and get serious. If he hadnt done that Saber most surely would have died. Or maybe if he did the Tsubame a little earlier and not let his sword get bent,thats also another scenario she would have surely died in.

>but it's still pretty much the bottom of the barrel.

The Assasins class shared ability to conceal themselves isnt exactly what i'd call "Bottom of the Barrel". It can be quite fucking broken. Granted it does drop when attempting to attack but by that time you should already be dead if it's a proper Assasin.

They arent Top tier but they certainly are not the worst of it. That position definitly goes to the Rider class.

victims of tragedy? more like victims of rape

>>1842788
>victims of tragedy? more like victims of sexy

>>1842160

Iskander indulged in excesses and believed himself incapable of any sort of mistake(a very common delusion amongst his kind),and that is how he died a swollen sot.

If you're asking how he managed to lose the Grail War, then your guess is as good as mine. I suspect Nasu.

>>1842816
Gil way of fighting.


'I won't use Ea on a punk like you, it's only for Saber, it's not like you can hurt me...Wait, Reality Marble, what the WOAH- My sword, where is it it AGHHHH MY ARM'

'Prepare yourself Saber, As I unleash Ea, it's not like you can evade the attack again, especially if I prep you for it, Damn I'm Fabulous.
Wait, why does it not work, let me try again GOD MY INNARDS ARE SLASHED'

'Sorry little girl, you were just Gate of Babylowned. HAHAHHAHAHA, damn I'm good, now the girl surely lies dead in her own blood...Wait, are these tentacles...Black?
What the HMNGFFFFF'

isn't this the guy with the "i'm gona fuck you in the ass" T-Shirt?

>>1842816
Gil's just that much better.

>>1842835

Yes, you.

The person reading this.

>>1842854
didn't you by extension just read that aswell

>>1842858

It will happen whether you like it or not.


Anyway I thought that was Ganondorf wearing that shirt.

>>1842863
isn't it possible he is ganondorf's father

>>1842884
Brothers, more likely.

saber broke his wagon

>>1842786
And yet Assassin lost to Rider in F/Z

>>1842950
Iskander's a really powerful rider, really, that's pretty obvious, no?

>>1842974
But Zero Assassin is a piece of shit.

All they can do is act like ninjas.

>>1842974
well, that, too, but the point is, o'Alex's just a really powerful Rider, chariot and reality marble and all.

>>1842987
Hahahaha no.
Assassin is only good for killing Masters, they're all pretty shit in direct combat
HF4 one is awesome because you get 80+ tries at killing Masters instead of getting ripped apart by the Master's Servant the moment you're noticed, 1/80 of a Servant is still above human level.

>>1842987
That's the purpose of the class.
Considering their hiding skill which as long they stand still they are NEVER detected.

Imagibe him standing around while Rider and Saber duke it out with their big lights in the FATE route, where Saber has just spent all her mana to the point Shirou could kick her ass now.
And has no magical energy to counter the curse.
And they do not know he is there since the start of the battle.
That's how Assassin is supposed to work.

>>1843008
Plus, him standing unnoticed would mean the moment Shirou ran like an idiot to get Shinji, MASTER GET (what Besrerked did actually)

>>1843008
problem with that class is that it'll be extremely vulnerable when there's one to two other masters left.

>>1843020
Kotomine may be the most 'superhuman' master of them all, and at best he can pin down assassin, not vanquish him.

>>1843020
Keep a good number of assassins left and then just LOLZERGRUSH the last master.

>>1843026
you forget that 4/6 in FSN and 3/6(?) of the other classes in the previous two HF had map attacks, didn't you?

80 Zakus are powerless against the might of Jesus Yamato.

>>1843023
Aside from... you know... the all-consuming dark murderess Master.

>>1843058
She requires very specific circumstances and shit to hit the fan before she is a great threat.

>>1843058
She's hardly a master, and only shows up in one timeline, so I don't think that counts.

But if we're looking for psycho strong masters, why not point at Kuzuki? He beat down Saber something fierce, and did it without magical church weapons (just magical gloves, arguably mimic-able through technology).

>>1843063
Considering how much shit she leaks out of everyone pore, it's amazing how long it takes for her to start being a threat.

>>1843078
Cause he is magically Reinforced by Caster.
Bazzet who can pump herself on her own is a much more viable threat.

>>1843086
Sure, he's reinforced by Caster, but last I checked she didn't do anything for his speed or skill. Bazette, on the other hand, I know nothing about beyond the fact that she was Lancer's original Master.

Hollow Ataraxia hasn't been translated yet...

>>1843097
Reinforcing, while it doesn't affect insticts, makes everything in your body work faster and better.

>>1843112
Really? I thought she just made his limbs harder.

>>1843135
Throwing 50KGs as fast as a baseball fastball in a simple motion?
Not just harder limbs.

>>1843135
Reinforcing is what allows Rin to land after falling from roofs or run 100 meters in 7 seconds top.

>>1843144
>>1843149
Damn, and here I'd thought those were a combination of badassery and training. Still, Shirou DID point out early on that Reinforcing/Strengthening an object is more about increasing it's ability to do what it does than actually making it harder, so...

>>1843149
I want to see Bazette reinforce Lancer's Gay Bulge.

>>1843156
Shrou strengthens objects onl, and barely succeeds.
What Rin or Caster do is the PEAK of it.
You think Rin Kung-Fu'd Caster normally?

>>1843161
Dohohoho

>>1843163

He only 'barely' succeeds because he recreates a Magic Circuit each time to use it.

Once Rin popped in a jewel inside him, he could use Reinforcement semi-decently with his own body against Rider's shadows.

>>1843185
More simply, in-game, when he 'doesn't think' and grabs an object, he reinforces it no problem (unconsciously follows the correct procedure).

He is surprised himself how in critical situations and no preptime, he does it better than ever.

But in general, Shirou both fucked up the process and it's near impossible for him to use most forms of thaumaturgy.

>>1843163
>You think Rin Kung-Fu'd Caster normally?

....Actually, yeah. I kinda did, seeing as Caster is, well, Caster, and was caught completely off guard. Not to mention nobody said anything in-game about Rin reinforcing herself.

>>1843172
rapidshit

>>1843194
If she didn't, her unarmed attacks would not even AFFECT caster.

>>1843196
http://tatari.110mb.com/TMDP/index.htm

>>1843193

Obviously, since not only is 98% of his body naturally attuned to tracing 'swords' to begin with, he spent 8 years relearning the same shit that every other mage does in a week, and he doesn't realize he's doing it wrong.

>>1843193

Yeah, Shirou sucks balls at magic. He's at his best in UBW with "LOLREALITYMARBLE" because he finally understands how to really do it and only at the very end. In the other routes he's always about to blow his goddamn arm off.

I always did find it funny at the risks involved when Shirou was practicing his shitty reinforcement in the shed.

The sheer surprise everyone had when they found out he wasn't dead after the crap he'd been pulling for so long was quite entertaining.

>>1843201
Why not? It's Caster, not Berserker. They put quite a bit of emphasis on the fact that Caster is supposed to take the Master's support position in combat, as opposed to how all the other classes do it.

And again, there's the conspicuous lack of mention of Rin using any reinforcement on herself.

>>1843217
At least in HF he's doing it intentionally. Fate Shirou didn't even know what was going on half the time.

>>1843203
thanks dood

>>1843223
Though it was significantly duller the second time around, and almost completely glazed over the third (intentionally, I'm sure, and for which I am thankful).

>>1843231
No problem, brother.

>>1843217

To be fair to Shirou, no mage teacher will tell him to learn tracing.

Tracing is a shit ability unless you can analyze legendary weapons to a T ( Shirou just needs a glance, but gee, who knew? ), and even if you know, 99% of all mages will kill themselves or blow their arm to just trace half of Caliburn. ( fine for Shirou, because his natural affinity is tracing + swords ) Not to mention his fucked-up life value allows him to not have his mana drained like hell just to sustain those swords, because his 'lack of self-love' allows him to sustain the traced weapons to not suck out his life. Also, lol Avalon fixing his body occasionally.

>>1843226

Fate Shirou wasn't thinking at all. "NEED NOBLE PHANTASM NOW!" was most likely the extent of it, and he did fairly well. Caliburn is a damn powerful Noble Phantasm to trace several times in a row, not to mention tracing Avalon. Not bad, Shirou. Kill Berserker why don't you?

HF Shirou had this weird mentality of MORE MANA, MORE CIRCUITS where he overloaded himself at every possible opportunity.

UBW Shirou basically figured out "I suck shit at tracing swords...but I'm good at making swordWORLDS" and finally started just yanking shit out of his UBW. Also, fully formed Rho Ais was badass during his chant.

>>1843245
>>Also, fully formed Rho Ais was badass during his chant.
I thought that was Archer's

>>1843248

Shirou copied Archer's Rho Ais, yeah, but he projected it himself to cover his ass while chanting UBW.

>>1843248
Shirou did it too in order to protect himself from Gilgamesh while he finished up the chant.

Also, on an unrelated note; /jp/, what the hell have you done to me? It's five in the morning, yet I don't feel tired at all.

>>1843245

80% of Shirou's magic was 'SCREW THE RULES, I AM SWORDS.'

>>1843251
No I mean, I thought Archer who was watching afar or some shit made it and Shirou was just going delusional

>>1843252
DOESN'T THAT SHIT HURT, GOD DAMN

>>1843260

No, UBW Shirou can project Rho Ais just fine, at full strength too, since it stopped Gil's constant swordspam during the entire chant.

>>1843273
Yeah but didn't Kinoko SAY that it was Archer's?

>>1843241
Or more simply, he has a constantly self-contained Reality Marble and his 'tracing' process is pulling the stuff out properly.

>>1843251
>>1843259
>>1843273
That was Archer, not Shirou. Nasu agreed, don't bother him about it.

Saver did it.

>>1843278

Nooo...

The story even mentions Shirou consciously pulling Rho Ais from the Hill of Swords. Shirou got fucked up as it got fucked up because he was pumping mana like crazy into it.

>>1843263

Shirou was obviously into M. His gear seems to go up everytime he pulled up ridiculously painful shit.

>>1843263

ur doin it rong

>>1843290
What part of "Nasu said it was Archer" don't you get?

We don't know if it was a retcon or if it was just badly worded, but it was Archer.

>>1843278

Rho Ais doesn't work that way. It's a Shield. You hold it in front of you. It's not a spell you can just fling out.

Furthermore, again, Shirou consciously pulls it out. It's copied from Archer, but Shirou is the one who projects it.

Besides, at that time Archer is busy with Rin and the Shinji/Grail abomination.

>>1843302

I've never even HEARD of this before. All the game's text says Shirou did it.

>>1843308

All I can say is...lol Nasu.

>>1843302

Archer would have to fucking THROW it to get it over there. There's no way in hell Gil is not noticing that.

Silly Shirou, that's not how you use a knife.

>>1843296

You think you're better than me just because your universe's me learned it earlier?

This thread has gone meta as fuck.

>>1843316

Where was this even put out? If you can't give me a sauce I'm filing this under more of those "mysterious interviews" that never happened.

>>1843319
I guess that is what he did UBW fanboys. Nasu says: "In the Rin route end, the Rho Aias that protected Shirou's chanting wasn't projected by Shirou, but was one made by Archer who had been watching the battle from afar."

>>1843326
Source is Side Material.

>>1843335

Where was this said?

Sauce: Post it/Link it or you're bullshit or you've been fed bullshit.

>>1843341
I just said it. Side Material, Rho Aias entry.

RHO

AIUS

AI

US

>>1843343

...

Well, son of a bitch, you're right.

That is one massive retcon, though, since he was getting hurt from it being damaged.

>>1843306
Rho Aias:

The Seven Rings that Cover the Fiery Sky is the shield used by Aias (Telamonian Ajax) in the great war of the Greek myth, the Trojan War.

This bronze shield covered with seven layers of oxhide is the one that blocked the javelin of the great hero Hector that was never blocked before. It penetrated 6 layers, but the seventh resisted.

Afterward, its existence was sublimed into a Conceptual Weapon that was an absolute defense against any thrown weapon. It is Archer's strongest defense.

At the end of Tohsaka Rin's route, the one that defends Emiya Shirou isn't projected by him, but by Archer from a distance.

Source: Fate/Side Material encyclopedia entry (p.78)

>>1843355

It makes you wonder why he changed it, though.

>>1843362
Who knows. He never even saw it used so how was he supposed to make it. Maybe Archer really did throw it at him lolololololol

>>1843367
Shirou projected Rho Aius at a distance onto Bellerophon, I don't see how it's any different from Archer using it to protect Shirou from a distance

>>1843362
Shirous maximum output is too low

>>1843362
The scene was unchanged in Realta Nua, so it seems more likely that it was another example of lolnasu writing.

>>1843362
Because it makes no sense for Shirou to pull out of nowhere a shield identical to Archer's, actually.

>>1843367
When you pull shit out of thin air, make them materialize wherever the heck you want doesn't sound THAT much of a stretch.

>>1843374
Shirou's only going delusional then?

I love how making projected swords float and shooting them is commonly accepted, but projecting a shield anywhere but right in front of you has everyone thinking "NO. IMPOSSIBLE."

>>1843372

Shirou's UBW is identical to Archer's because Archer showed it off to him.

UBW Shirou has Archer's entire arsenal by the end of the game.

Nasu continues to be unable to make up his mind about what he writes.

>>1843378
Shirou says 'I MUST PULL OUT A SHIELD OR I'M FUCKED'.
Shield appears.
'Well, okay, that must have worked somehow.'
Chant continues.

He was not in a position where he can over think stuff.

>>1843367

Technically, his duel with Archer allowed Shirou to see into his past partially. It'd wouldn't be strange if he saw Archer use Rho Aius in one of those.

Besides, Shirou's generic swords inside his UBW also has to come from somewhere. Like from inside's Saber's dreams.

>>1843382
That makes sense.

>>1843381
No.
Shirou's UBW has whatever weapons he has witnessed.
And after Fighting Archer and Gilgamesh, he has seen a lot.
But he has not seen Rho Aius.

Stop trying to blame Nasu, it's not that hard to figure out.

>>1843380

The swords at least have a point of origin before being hurled like ICBMs.

>>1843386

He saw Unlimited Blade Works and witnessed an infinite amount of swords. In addition, he and Archer had this mind meld thing during the duel where he saw all of Archer's past.

He has witnessed everything in Archer's arsenal.

JUST WANTED TO INTERRUPT YOU ALL TO SAY

Fake Assassin/Kojiro was the most awesome character in Fate/Stay Night.

It was already mentioned earlier, but he blows every servant out of the water with nothing but skill. In theory, the only thing he wouldn't be able to beat the shit out of is Berserker, and only because of LOL INVINCIBLE TO ALL BUT ARBITRARILY RANKED MAGIC.

>>1843392
But can Kojiro project a shield at a distance?

Shirous magic circuits are weak. Even with Rin providing Mana he can use like 12 units at one time.
Tracing swords take 1-12 units.
lolshield needs 20 units of mana

With Archer's arm in Heavens Feel, the best Shirou could do was a four-petal version of Rho Aius. Even if he had seen it in UBW, pulling out a full version still wouldn't make sense.

>>1843391
Thus to recap, by the time the shield appears in Gil's fight, there are two explanations:

Either Shirou managed to pull it off, accepting that he somehow synchronized with Archer and leeched of the ENTIRE arsenal, or Archer who helped around (saving Rin, killing the SLIME, finishing Gil) helped there too.

And Nasu confirms it's the second.
So what's our problem?

>>1843394
He doesn't need to, he can cut anything to pieces instantly.

HIS ARM AND SWORD SPLIT INTO THREE

WITH NO MAGIC, JUST SKILL

HE BENDS REALITY EVEN MORE THAN MAGIC

>>1843392
His fighting style in F/UC can be described as sword sex.

>>1843397

It doesn't cost him anything to pull stuff directly from UBW, Reality Marble haxx and all, which is exactly what the text said he was doing before lolretcon.

>198 posts and 16 image replies omitted. Click Reply to view.
Type-Moon: We discuss the same shit over and over again

>>1843398

Because it's not very consistent with the portrayal of the writing, even for Shirou's fucked up POV.

Unless Archer somehow mindmelded with Shirou from a distance to make Shirou feel like he was the one who used Rho Aius to the point Shirou's body cracked from the pressure of the shield getting attacked.

>>1843410

The same could be said of Touhou

>>1843403
...Making the RM materialize costs a lot.
Pulling stuff out of the RM costs a lot too (almost nothing compared to normal projection though).
Hence him needing Rin's support.

The shield as a retcon explains things much better.

>>1843403
How much mana you get influences how well it'll work. Like why Archer can't use Excalibur well enough to fend off Rider's Belllerelrjphon.

>>1843403
That's only once UBW is expanded. That hadn't happened yet.

>>1843410
Actually, since the original query covered something from Fate Zero, it has not been overly discussed.
Plus, this covers a few technicalities in the TMverse, better than character analysis amd comparisons and CANON ENDINGS WTF.

And there was only this and a couple more TM threads active the last few hours, so no cancer feeling.

>>1843398

Because that would make Archer sneakier than Assassin. Gil's not a wise asshole, but he knows about magecraft. He would be able to tell the difference.

Nasu retconned it for some weird reason, and I'm frankly pissed because that leaches a good amount of cool from that scene.

>>1843414
A motherfucking thrown Durandal or Gram piercing something and coming at you would make you feel pressure, but that may be just me.

>>1843418

Actually, once UBW is expanded he can access them all at once, infinitely.

Just taking something out of his Reality Marble isn't tracing, so it doesn't cost anything.

So end of story, UBW Shirou ain't that great, no?

>>1843417

Mana for tracing and mana for activation differs. Archer has no problem tracing an Excalibur, but using Excalibeam and live to tell the tale is a different story.

>>1843424
Which is why I'm choosing to ignore it.

Much like how I'd ignore it if Nasu said that Kojiro was actually just attacking REALLY FAST.

>>1843427

Still better than the rest, except maybe Avalon Tracing Fate Shirou.

"loliminvincible"

>>1843427
>So end of story, UBW Shirou ain't that great yet, no?
fixed

>>1843433
Don't mind me bro, just going to swing my sword 8 times in one second.

>>1843430
That's what I mean. Even though Rho Aius is inside UBW for free, activation cost and how much mana Archer and Shirou have means we're going to have a 7-petal and a 4-petal version amirite?

>>1843427
Shirou is never that great power-wise.
It's mostly his mentality, mindfuckery and guts to keep going after seeing his own insides , that makes him awesome.

>>1843427

Fate Shirou was the weakest, overall, but as you can see from >>1843322 his UBW here, he simply matures slower.

UBW wasn't anything spectacular, but he had the best head-start, the best mentality and the best understanding of his powers in a short time. With Rin's teachings, he will become superior to Archer one day, even if not in mana capacity.

HF Shirou was just a dying beast.

>>1843446
PROTAGONIST HAX.

>>1843438

brb killing Berserker at least seven times over with a single swipe.

>>1843451
Considering the number of Bad ends, not really.
If it was easier to get good endings then bad ones, maybe.

>>1843449
What about 'Dead End' Kiritsugu Shirou in HF? The part where it dead ends because Shirou has no chance of losing?

That was a pretty awesome Shirou.

>>1843464
He is still Kiritsugu Light at best.
Original kiritsugu was a beast.

>>1843464
Wait what? Mind explaining that to me?

Am I the only one that was impressed by HF Shirou soloing Saber with swordsmanship?

>>1843464

Fuckwin Shirou, I admit.

I'm going on sheer ability here. UBW has the best understanding of the whole 'making magic swords' bit. However, Fate Shirou can project the ultimate defense and Caliburn is nothing to sneeze at. I'd say despite his really awesome looking moves, HF is probably the worst in terms of mad skills.

>>1843470
Best end for me.
Going beyond yourself to beat the opponent, even if it means to burn out.

>>1843470
Awesome end.

If only it wasn't a bad one.

Should have been used as the way to move forward, with Shirou getting even more burned the fuck out and made of even more swords.

>>1843469

Choose Justice over Love. Win the Holy Grail War, save the day, be a total badass.

>>1843489
I haven't started HF yet since the patch came out so mind telling me what exactly happens? I unfortunately don't currently have the free time to play it right now.

>>1843497
You really, REALLY should see it for yourself whenever you have free time to read it.

>>1843497
You have to choose if you want to kill Sakura or not.

If you choose yes, Kotomine comments that Shirou has now become Kiritsugu, and that it is impossible for him to lose now.

It DEAD END's at that point, implying that Shirou goes to any and all lengths to win the war.

>>1843497

Basically, Shirou decides he's going to be a superhero after all and somebody dies. I won't spoil it for you.

After that Kotomine basically says "You're the Juggernaut." And you walk out with the intent of killing everybody involved with the Holy Grail and destroying it all on your own.

You succeed.

>>1843501
Yeah I plan to do it in about two months when I have the time.

>>1843504
>>1843508
So tell me, how's this a DEAD end? It should be at least a Great End seeing as to how the worm is dead and everything starts to turn the way they should.

Hell for all we know what made Archer into what he is was probably this route, because we know he isn't drooling over Sakura like the retard Shirou is.

>>1843522

Because Heaven's Feel is fail, that's why.

Illya Route would have probably taken off from there.

>>1843522

well basically its not DEADend, its just a BAD end. But yeah i agree with you. Then again it goes against the full idea of the whole HF route

So from what I read in this thread.

It was archer who made Rho Aius for Shirou when he was chanting for UBW ?

Archer , who fought shirou at 10% strength , got sword spammed , saved rin and ect.

Where the fuck did he get his mana for this badassery !?