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/jp/ - Otaku Culture


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18250154 No.18250154 [Reply] [Original]

This is a Japanese language learning thread designed by and for those interested in traditional otaku media such as anime, manga, light novels and Japanese video games. This is NOT your personal translation service (>>>/r/ | >>>/wsr/).

>How do I learn Japanese?
>Where can I find learning material and resources?
>How do I do X?
http://djtguide.neocities.org/

Previous thread: >>18232066

>> No.18250158

Do your reps.

>> No.18250176

>>18250154
Way to completely butcher the op, lazy meme shitter.

>> No.18250210
File: 22 KB, 229x173, djt.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18250210

>> No.18250219

>>18250154
#1879 begins with a good image

>> No.18250222

>>18250176
My thinking was that newfriends would be more likely to read >memetext since it stands out more.

>> No.18250223
File: 52 KB, 600x450, ux4og0.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18250223

ステマちゃんかわいい

>> No.18250244

>>18250222
That's the local narcissist upset that you removed the CoR link. Just ignore it.

>> No.18250313
File: 131 KB, 1920x1080, 鼻の下を伸ばす.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18250313

Now I understand.

>> No.18250345

Sorry for sounding like a retard, but how should I learn the stroke order? Just draw everything I see on Core2K/6K? Does it even give the stroke order? I just started with Kanji so I am not sure what to do. The guide only mentions the fact that most people don't learn to write, nothing more.

>> No.18250385

僕は気力が弱いからワニカニに払ってしまうしかない。

>> No.18250397
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18250397

>> No.18250463
File: 1.92 MB, 3988x3988, zoiagge.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18250463

>> No.18250479

>>18250345
Learn the stroke order of radicals

>> No.18250481

>>18250479
Fuck learning stroke orders.

>> No.18250484
File: 445 KB, 1280x720, zon zon bizori.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18250484

>> No.18250491

>>18250345
Stroke order, for the most part, is very predictable. You can find stroke order diagrams on Jisho. After you've learned to write 50-100 kanji, you won't really need stroke order diagrams anymore since the correct stroke order will just come naturally to you.

That said, there are some weird exceptions like 必 where the stroke order makes no sense which you will just have to learn independently.

There's very little benefit to being able to write kanji from memory though. It's handy to know radicals and stroke order so you can use Google Translate's handwriting search to look up unknown kanji, but there's really no point in developing your handwriting skills beyond that.

>> No.18250493

>>18250481
No one asked you sperge

>> No.18250497

>>18250493
I told you anyways dickhead.

>> No.18250600

くぞ農民たち

>> No.18250602

>>18250154
Does anyone have the other guide link?

>> No.18250609

>>18250602
Just follow the previous thread links through the archive and you'll find it.

>> No.18250610

>>18250600
くそ*
>>18250602
https://exhentai.org/

>> No.18250611

>>18250610
get out.

>> No.18250613

>>18250610
How do I get past the panda?

>> No.18250620

>>18250611
make me
>>18250613
did you ask him nicely?

>> No.18250621

>>18250613
You need to speak japanese

>> No.18250624

>>18250621
本当だ

>> No.18250625

>>18250609
No there's not in the archives. I remembered that guide was about being more biased. Thanks anyway

>> No.18250627

>>18250491
In fact, there is NO fixed stroke order for 必 and a lot of other kanjis.
We can only learn the suggested order in order to write down easiliy and make the characters look in good order

>> No.18250636

>>18250625
If you're talking about the alternative guide which was linked in the OPs a while back, then it is certainly amongst the archived threads somewhere if you follow the trail back far enough.

Alternatively, just search "alternative guide" in the archive (set it to show OPs only and you should come across it quicker).

>> No.18250642

>>18250620
Yes I did but he just continued to cry.

>> No.18250652
File: 29 KB, 500x500, 1515444781741.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18250652

>>18250642

>> No.18250662

>>18250491
Thanks anon

>> No.18250669

>>18250602
https://neodjt.neocities.org/newguide.html

>> No.18250692
File: 1.08 MB, 1095x1600, 絶対☆霊域_4_067.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18250692

What's グ●コ?
I couldn't figure it out with google or jisho, except that it's maybe 軍鼓, but I doubt that would be censored. Please help!

>> No.18250700

>>18250692
グリコ
Ezaki Glico Company, Limited

>> No.18250734

>>18250700
You are right. I am a complete failure of a human being. Thanks!

>> No.18250751

>>18250154
What does everyone use for listening? Podcasts and the like? I found that the IGNJapan youtube channel has some easy to comprehend stuff.

>> No.18250756

>>18250751
>What does everyone use for listening?
My ears for the most part.

>> No.18250781
File: 96 KB, 840x700, 1505511132187.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18250781

>10 kanji exam tomorrow
>can't stop playing bloodborne

>> No.18250790

>>18250756
haha good one dude

>> No.18250798
File: 947 KB, 649x560, 1513361887082.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18250798

>>18250781

>> No.18250835

>>18250154
>自分がどう関わっていけば香織がしあわせになれるか、気持ちがはっきりとした祐樹

I'm I right in believing that it's meant that Yuuki was "sure as how to proceed"?
Let me translate what I think it says:

>In what way could he proceed in order to make Kaori happy? Yuuki already knew the answer to that question.

>> No.18250959

>>18250158
I hate it!

>> No.18250990

He hates it.

>> No.18250997

could anybody share the picture of Anki set-up with me? I cannot find it in DJT guide and am not sure if it hasn't been deleted since I last saw it

>> No.18251016

>>18250835
I think you got the idea right. 関わる is a little different, and it's important to make the auxiliary いく clear here. "How do I concern myself coming forward in order for Kaori to become happy?" (an extremely literal translation)
I'd translate 気持ちがはっきりとした like "clear resolution" here, since "knew the answer" is a little deceiving.

>> No.18251054

>>18250997
It's on the CoR images page.

>> No.18251087

I feel like none of it's sticking. I keep having to look up words I already know.

>> No.18251127

>>18250997
The only Anki settings you need to mess with are:

>Reviews -> Maximum reviews/day
set to "9999"

>Lapses -> New interval
set to "15%"

>Lapses -> Leech threshold
set to "15"


Leave everything else default.

>> No.18251146

>>18251016
Thanks a lot!

>> No.18251228

shit thread, horrible OP image from a shit manga, nobody actually comes here begging for translations and newcomers are rare. Stop inflating your own ego because you're learning japanese, schizo.

>> No.18251231

>>18251228
>nobody actually comes here begging for translations
see last thread
>newcomers are rare
there are more beginners than intermediate learners

>> No.18251246

>>18251231
>see last thread
I was in the last thread and there wasn't anyone begging for translations. Nobody actually would ask translations for the dumbfucks here that repeat what they see on the guide (AKA the djt drone's bible).
>there are more beginners than intermediate learners
beginner =/= newcomer
Same can be said to the intermediate.

>> No.18251269

>>18251246
I guess you have a different definition of "last thread" than everyone else because someone definitely came here for a translation.

>> No.18251292

>>18251269
Prove it.

>> No.18251300

Hey can you guys translate this for me?

한국인은 죽어라! 조선인은 죽어라!

>> No.18251308

>>18251300
Yes, someone can.

>> No.18251314

>>18251269
>>18251300
Same retard.

>> No.18251328

>>18251314
Rude! If you don't know what it says just don't reply.

>> No.18251337 [DELETED] 

>>18251328
It says haha you just got TROLLED HARD retard XD

>> No.18251340

>>18251314
No.

>> No.18251344

>>18251340
>>18251328
>>18251300
>>18251269
>>18251231
>>18251127
>>18251016
samefag

>> No.18251345

>>18251337
Okay thank you for the translation.

>> No.18251353

>>18251345
trolled again lol

>> No.18251364

>>18251344
No.

>> No.18251379
File: 367 KB, 1680x1050, bear.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18251379

>>18251344
Don't bring me into this. I come in this thread for a minute, see someone actually asking a question about the language, and try to give my own interpretation (however valuable that is) on it.

>> No.18251387

Okay guys one more translation please.

㌶㌍㌫㌻㍍㍗㌫㍊㍍㌘㌶㌍㌫㌻㍍㍗㌘㌶㌍㌫㌻㍍㍗㌶㌍㌫㌻㍍㍗㌫㍊㍍㌘㌶㌍㌫㌻㍍㍗㌘㌶㌍㌫㌻㍍㍗㌶㌍㌫㌻㍍㍗㌫㍊㍍㌘㌶㌍㌫㌻㍍㍗㌘㌶㌍㌫㌻㍍㍗㌶㌍㌫㌻㍍㍗㌫㍊㍍㌘㌶㌍㌫㌻㍍㍗㌘㌶㌍㌫㌻㍍㍗㌶㌍㌫㌻㍍㍗㌫㍊㍍㌘㌶㌍㌫㌻㍍㍗㌘㌶㌍㌫㌻㍍㍗㌶㌍㌫㌻㍍㍗㌫㍊㍍㌘㌶㌍㌫㌻㍍㍗㌘㌶㌍㌫㌻㍍㍗㌶㌍㌫㌻㍍㍗㌫㍊㍍㌘㌶㌍㌫㌻㍍㍗㌘㌶㌍㌫㌻㍍㍗㌶㌍㌫㌻㍍㍗㌫㍊㍍㌘㌶㌍㌫㌻㍍㍗㌘㌶㌍㌫㌻㍍㍗㌶㌍㌫㌻㍍㍗㌫㍊㍍㌘㌶㌍㌫㌻㍍㍗㌘㌶㌍㌫㌻㍍㍗㌶㌍㌫㌻㍍㍗㌫㍊㍍㌘㌶㌍㌫㌻㍍㍗㌘㌶㌍㌫㌻㍍㍗㌶㌍㌫㌻㍍㍗㌫㍊㍍㌘㌶㌍㌫㌻㍍㍗㌘㌶㌍㌫㌻㍍㍗㌶㌍㌫㌻㍍㍗㌫㍊㍍㌘㌶㌍㌫㌻㍍㍗㌘㌶㌍㌫㌻㍍㍗㌶㌍㌫㌻㍍㍗㌫㍊㍍㌘㌶㌍㌫㌻㍍㍗㌘㌶㌍㌫㌻㍍㍗

>> No.18251462
File: 148 KB, 1280x738, Screenshot-00225.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18251462

>>18250210
>mfw she became real.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBSyd8tXJoEJKIXfrwkPdbA

>> No.18251526

>>18251462
Opinions on her teaching?
As a beginner I think she's very good.

>> No.18251557

>>18251526
so many things that i knew rather vague she cleared up. also explains very structured and clear. she is great.

>> No.18251572

休みと休日の差異は何ですか?

Also, I feel like the の was misused there but I can't pinpoint why it feels wrong to me. Is it wrong?

>> No.18251645

>>18251572
ぶんぽうはかんぜんにただしいよ

がんばれおにいちゃん

>> No.18251663

>>18251054
tthanks!

>> No.18251859

>>18251462
What the fuck is her accent? It sounds like she's trying to do cockney, but she's clearly not a native English speaker.

That said, I don't think she's a native Japanese speaker either. Her English l's and r's are too perfect and, listening to a video of her speaking Japanese*, she sounds really stiff and robotic, almost like a text-to-speech program (not to mention, the video has a ridiculous amount of jump-cuts suggesting there was a great deal of "umm"ing and "ahhh"ing that she had to cut out).
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXHp_JjXgPk

>> No.18251921

>>18251572
休日 = 休みの日
休日 is specific 休み

>> No.18251998
File: 10 KB, 170x227, JebBush.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18251998

I just finnished the core 2k.

Please Clap!

>> No.18252040

what is the difference with
>ほとんど
>ほぼ
The meanings on the cards are the same

>> No.18252101

>>18251645
>>18251921
本当にありがとう先輩達

いい人々だ

>> No.18252120

>>18252040
Jisho?
ほぼ "approximately/roughly"
ほとんど "almost invariably"

>> No.18252264

>>18252120
>almost invariably
what the fuck, this is too specific

>> No.18252287

>>18250397
>Nip handwriting that is actually legible
Amazing.

>> No.18252311
File: 812 KB, 500x364, 1471242756350.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18252311

>>18250463

>> No.18252335

Anyone familiar with buying manga in kindle format?
When you look at the preview on amazon the quality always looks horrible despite the English digital format looking good.
Is this just an issue with the preview being low res or will they actually look like then when bought.

>> No.18252430

>厄日
どうして..

>> No.18252472

>>18252335
buy it and find out

>> No.18252595
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18252595

>>18251998

>> No.18252624

>>18252040
ほぼおなじです。
ほとんど can be the form of "ほとんどの", ほぼ cannnot.
ほとんどの人がそのうわさを信じた。
Almost all the people believed the rumor.
ほとんどの時間を練習につかう。
I spend most of my time practicing.

>> No.18252711

DIETしながらふとって

>> No.18252745

おなかすいた

からあげたべたい

>> No.18252796
File: 242 KB, 1200x718, DS_ifytU8AAjFti.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18252796

>>18252745

>> No.18252849
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18252849

>>18252745
はいぃー

>> No.18252906

The english title for かぐや様は告らせたい~天才たちの恋愛頭脳戦~ is "Kaguya Wants to be Confessed To: The Geniuses' War of Love and Brains"
I thought 告られたい would be 'wants to be confessed to'? Isn't 告らせたい more like, she wants to be allowed to confess or something like that?

>> No.18252957
File: 29 KB, 781x292, chrome_2018-01-19_20-25-01.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18252957

>>18252040

>> No.18252982

>>18252906
>告ら せ たい
= want to make someone confess one's feeling

She herself doesn't want to do

>> No.18253085

>>18250751
ひいきびいき
>>18251859
>That said, I don't think she's a native Japanese speaker either.
I had the same thought when I watched one of her videos and for that reason I wouldn't recommend listening to her.
>>18251462
How is kanji kingdom going for you?

>> No.18253123

>>18250751
Anime

>> No.18253219

>watching MV
>Furigana for a certain kanji is done with a different kanji
I mean I could read the other kanji, but literally why.

>> No.18253255

>>18250222
>My thinking was that newfriends
No it wasn't, hence the dumb inside joke op image. Newfriends use the catalog and scan for images that pop out and tell them something. A shitty inside joke image plus antagonistic op text attracts shitters and deflects potential learners. Try to think about more than just yourself for something that's going to stay up for days.

>>18250244
The COR link was being used in both daily Japanese threads because people kept asking where to download things already in the COR. Cool name or whatever but newfriends have shown that they don't know what it is. While the previous op was up, less people where asking where to download things in the COR. Whatever personal issues you have are irrelevant because the thread is here for everyone, not just you.

>> No.18253525
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18253525

>>18252957
you're doing it wrong

>> No.18253688

>彼女がいない感じ

>> No.18253833
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18253833

ゆるキャン△のまねして

風があるのに野外で火使って

火事ふえそうでいやだな

>> No.18253992

>>18251859
What the fuck, this bitch isn't a native Japanese speaker. Kind of pisses me off that's she's presenting herself as one and teaching shitty pronunciation.

>> No.18254000

Tell be about mistranslations in official subtitles.

>> No.18254008

>>18254000
They do it constantly, what else is there to tell you?

>> No.18254026

>>18253992
You're just jealous of her internet fame.

>> No.18254049

>>18254026
Did you listen to her? Have you listened to native Japanese people speak Japanese and if so, how long have you been intently listening to Japanese natives speak Japanese? I'm not that guy but I agree with him; Japanese does not sound like her native language. She almost reminds me of this lady:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYvIOi8Q3I8

>> No.18254056

ぺこぺこ
ぺらぺら
からから

Why are these non-words a thing in Japanese? None of the other languages I know have them

>> No.18254067

>>18254049
In America, a lot of native monolingual English speakers sound absolutely retarded when they speak. She just looks like a vapid low IQ cunt who would sound like that. Doesn't mean it's not a native speaker, it simply means that she's a brainlet.

>> No.18254081

>>18254056
It does though. For example, in French we call frilly thing ''frou frou''. You're probably a monolingual amerimutt to even say such a thing.

>> No.18254094

>>18254056
べこべこのばぎばぎにしたるくま

>> No.18254101

>>18254081
>amerimutt
I was about ready to type "HEY! We say things like fuwa fuwa too!" ... and then I realized that I've been watching too much anime.

>> No.18254113

>>18254081
>French
>lost to Russia and later allied with them
>Finns
>didn't lose to Russia
>allied with Japan
>both countries defeated Russia

I think it's safe to deduce from that that my people are superior :^)

>> No.18254120

>>18254101
Leave this website.

>> No.18254130

>>18254113
>>lost to Russia and later allied with them
Russian nobility spoke French because they saw it as the superior culture. You're clueless.

>> No.18254162

>>18254049
She sounds like she's Japanese but probably born or lived a long time outside of Japan, or just has a weird way of talking sometimes. I didn't see any good videos where she would actually naturally speak Japanese for longer than two sentences though

>> No.18254176

>>18254049
what the fuck is this, a voicechanger? how horrifying

>> No.18254219

>>18254049
She is native, she just speaks slowly so the children who watch her channel don't get scared and leave. It is the same reason she puts romaji on her videos.

>> No.18254246
File: 40 KB, 354x499, 51oQ53-yQ-L._SX352_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18254246

If anyone' looking for a book to read I can recommend this one. It's pretty good, and not too long either. Only ~250 pages. In short, it's about a poor village that prays for shipwrecks to appear.

>> No.18254251

>>18254219
I might buy that but that's really insulting and it makes it a little more difficult to understand because it doesn't sound like how normal people speak. I wonder if anyone has called her out on that in the comments.

>> No.18254255

>>18254246
たのしそー

>> No.18254365

>>18252335
If you can find me a manga that is on Kindle Unlimted, I'll tell you.

>> No.18254373

>>18249022
What would you say those fundamentals are?

>> No.18254421

>>18254255
面白いよ
読んでみたら?

>> No.18254438

How many hours a day do you guys practice for?

>> No.18254465

>>18254438
approx. zero hours
I don't know any japanese

>> No.18254467

>>18254438
3 hours of anime a day

>> No.18254478

>>18254438
like 10 cuz i procrastinate between it constantly

>> No.18254496

>>18252264
It means "pretty much always"

>> No.18254536

>>18250613
The panda only pops up if you're a dekinai.

>> No.18254546

>>18254438
It varies by day to day.
Right now I'd say close to 1. Anki is to a point where its taking around 30-40 minutes (~100 reviewed cards + 20 new) and then I typically will throw on a video for listening or browse through a grammar guide and do some light learning while I eat my meals

It will probably jump up to 2 hours, maybe even more, when I feel comfortable enough to start reading or listening in more detail.

>> No.18254551
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18254551

>>18254421

>> No.18254971

I just got done memorizing Hiragana but I have severe issues with handwriting. My English handwriting already looks really ugly which makes my Japanese handwriting barely legible. Obviously handwriting doesn't matter as long as I memorized the stroke order, but it deeply saddens me. Can anyone give me some advice on how to improve it before I screw myself over with muscle memory? Do I just have to practice each character for hours until it looks decent?

>> No.18254990

>>18254971
if youre insistent on isolated writing for whatever retarded reason, youll write them better with time anyways considering the kana are the most used characters in the entire language

>> No.18254991

>>18254438
~1.5 hours - adding new cards in anki
~1.2 hours - reviewing everything in anki
~3-4 hours - reading

>> No.18255033

>>18254971
In my limited experience of improving my English cursive handwriting after many years of it being shit, I don't think muscle memory can irreversibly screw you over in writing. Just go slowly (but not so slow that everything becomes wiggly) and carefully, putting extra attention into the shape that you want to make. Eventually you will get closer to your intent, and while fast writing will always look shittier than careful writing, your fast writing will benefit as well. I think just writing sentences will do fine, only put extra practice into individual kana/kanji if they are exceptionally bad compared to the rest of your writing. Also, make sure you refer to real handwriting and not fonts since you're early in your learning.

>> No.18255075

>>18254990
That makes sense, thanks.
>>18255033
>only put extra practice into individual kana/kanji if they are exceptionally bad
Most of them look rather hideous, so I guess I'll have to practice more. I just fear that this will significantly slow down my progress, since I'm already a slow learner. But I guess it's either that or simply being satisfied with the stroke order. Thanks for the advice.

>> No.18255277
File: 903 KB, 1110x635, ZyKuadm.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18255277

How or what is クセs meaning here?

seems like it means bamboo isn't good, like its too strong? I found a few words that may work but I can't really figure it out.

>> No.18255288

>>18255277
sorry, it clicked. ignore this.

>> No.18255298

>>18251300
Sure!
>Go fuck your mother! You bloody bastard!
This is a guess but think it's very accurate. Your welcome anon!

>> No.18255581

>>18255277
クセ means every characteristics of substances.
It needs to be judged in the context
In this image, I can not affirm but she is talking about elasticity???

>> No.18255641

>>18255581
shes a witch and the broom flew too high up, as if its sensitive to magical power or something.

i kind of got that meaning after looking at the multiple definitions a few more times. i got confused because most of them had a negative nuance

>> No.18256230

japanese is a retarded language and I hope you microdicks get nuked back to the stone age

ps I know 5 languages

>> No.18256242

>>18256230
Obviously English isn't one of them.

>> No.18256264

>>18256230
t. knower of spanish, italian, portugese and french

>> No.18256333

にちようび

なにしてあそぶ?

>> No.18256370

>>18250158
Already done it.

>> No.18256388

>>18256370
Do them again.

>> No.18256411

>>18256388
I don't wanna

>> No.18256467

>>18256411
DO THEM AGAIN

>> No.18256602

with the yomichan -> anki card function, is there any way to specific certain parts of the definition to add to the card, or does that part have to be done manually? some words have long laundry lists and I only want a few. I've just been editing them as they come up, but curious if there's a way to correct them as they're added

>> No.18256678

>>18255075
yeah that's how i did it as well
just write very slowly and deliberately at first.
gotta walk before you can run

>> No.18256697
File: 1.81 MB, 1334x750, A4C3574D6FF046FEB81C2AA6FF34F242.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18256697

>>18256602
>Using the piece of shit abomination that is called Mr. Reading

>> No.18256753

あしたは

たけやぶにあそびにいく

きちつくる

>> No.18256814

>>18256697
thanks for the response

>> No.18257276
File: 205 KB, 500x500, 1492869362221.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18257276

What's with the way numbers are written in the Overlord LNs?

e.g. 39, rather than being written as 三十九, is written as 三九 (which I presume is still intended to be read the same way as 三十九)

I don't recall ever seeing numbers written like this before in other things I've read. Is this common in LNs? Or is it a peculiarity of the author?

>> No.18257297

>>18257276
Do you have a context example?
Overlord from what I know of it has a lot of game jokes and such in it, so depending on its use numbers can often have alternate meanings.

>> No.18257320
File: 305 KB, 1399x2117, 1486926467017.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18257320

>>18257297
I don't think it's being used for the sake of jokes or anything. Here's the page for the 39 example I gave.

Every time a number has been written up to now, the kanji have always been treated as though they were numerals. When writing "100" for instance, the author doesn't use 百, he uses 一〇〇.

>> No.18257339

>>18257320
I think it's like when you say three four four nine instead of three thousand four hundred forty-nine

>> No.18257348

>>18257339
Nobody does that... do they?

>> No.18257356

>>18257348
It happens sometimes, like for instance "double oh seven" is the name of a western character

>> No.18257361

>>18257356
There'd be no way to read the zero's at the beginning if you didn't say it like that, so that's a very specific and exceptional example.

>> No.18257371

>>18257320
Honestly no idea. that's kinda weird, only thing I could think of is maybe clarity like the other anon said?
>>18257361
There's that and like if you want to be more precise like if you're giving a long number. You don't say your phone number is 5 billion, 5hundred fifty five million.. etc.
you say five five five, five five five five

doesn't seem to be the case here though

>> No.18257403

>>18257320
あなたの考えの通り、三九=三十九=39、です。
LN(や、他の表現形式)に特有のものではなく、
またこの作者の独自の書き方でもなく、
何かのジョーク(ネタ)でもありません。普通の日本語です。
年齢や暦を表すときにこのような書き方がされることが多いです。
例)二四歳、一九九二年(A.D.1992)
個人的には、あまり好きな書き方ではありません。
例えば、「二三人」と書いてあると、「23人」のことなのか、「にさんにん=二人か三人くらい」のことなのか、文脈次第でどちらにもとれます。

>> No.18257529

ぷわ

>> No.18257549

くぱぁ

>> No.18257560

I here that sentence cards in anki are bad here a lot. Could one of you guys give me a reason on why that is.

>> No.18257582

>>18257560
here hare here

>> No.18257588
File: 9 KB, 250x250, 1504241212878.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18257588

>be learner of about 7 months
>start watching dogen's phonetics videos
>realize i've gone 7 months without putting any effort into production or speech
>have no clue where to start or practice
>have no clue if i should even be focusing on that or if i should just keep reading
is it too late for me bros

>> No.18257607

>>18257560
Because you end up learning sentences and not words. I practiced sentence mining a lot because I had had a hard time with onomatopoeias but every time I look at a card I could instantly tell what this sentence(s) is about. Guess what? When I come across these words in the wild I desperately fail to recognize them. I guess it could work with very common words and grammar but I'm not sure to what extent.

>> No.18257615

>>18257588
>7 months
>is it too late for me bros
no, get to work

>> No.18257626

the djt website isnt working

>> No.18257633
File: 1.50 MB, 2772x2772, 1486858930742.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18257633

Reminder that the Madoka soundtrack is cosy to listen to while reading.

>> No.18257646

>>18257626
it is. maybe try another browser

>> No.18257652

>どこを風が吹くかというような風をしている
Nice sentence, lads. Nice japanese sentence.

>> No.18257662

>>18257560
The sentence cards vs vocab cards argument has been done to death already. Just read through this discussion and decide for yourself who you think has the more convincing arguments:
http://arch.b4k.co/jp/thread/17824728/#17828847

>> No.18257666

>>18257615
well what should I do? keep focusing on reading and then dedicate all my time into speaking later, or split my learning into a 50/50 of reading and speaking? i do plan on going to japan so i'm not learning just to read manga or anything

>> No.18257709

How do I do step 5 on the Anki guide if I'm on a mac? The file paths are different.

>> No.18257739

>>18257666
Keep on reading, but also train your listening ability. Get some audio of someone speaking (make sure you're the same gender) and put a sentence on repeat. Imitate them. This trains your ear and your voice.
You've recognised the problem, which is good, but no one has flawless pronunciation in less than a year.

>> No.18257741

>>18257709
Most people don't like using the images, but if you really want to use them then I imagine your path will probably be the same as it is on Linux (/home/yourusername/.local/share/Anki2/yourankiusername/collection.media).

Actually, I remember having another path in the past on Linux which I think was /home/Documents/Anki/yourankiusername/collection.media so you can check there too.

>> No.18257751

>>18257741
As far as I can tell, there is no 'collection.media' file on my Mac. It doesn't show up in a search.

>> No.18257767

今朝は買い物行ってきた
美味しいものをいっぱい買った
みんなは美味しいものの名前が分かるかな

大根
納豆
あられ
かりんとう
昆布
しめじ
牛乳
ヨーグルト
生クリーム
チェダー

マスのフィレ
オリーブの肉詰め

これぐらいかな
晩御飯はマスにするので
オリーブの肉詰め2~3個をフライパンで炒めて
マスは醤油をかけてオーブンで焼いて
バサフラン入りのスマティライスと一緒に食べる

牛蒡が余ってるので作り置きのきんぴらごぼうにするかなぁと思う

初めて作った大根の漬物も後1~2日で食べごろで楽しみだな

みんなは何が食べるの?何が食べたいの?

>> No.18257790

>>18257767
>バサフラン入りのスマティライス
打ちミスってすんません
サフロン入りのバスマティライス、だね

>> No.18257855
File: 27 KB, 750x496, 1459273151720.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18257855

>>18257739
Alright, i'll try. Do you have any recommendations for these listening resources?
Also, like I said I am interested when it comes to speaking, but i'm a bit scared when it comes to deciding what words to use and how to say it. I'm not especially confident in my vocab and grammar, so when i try to make a sentence to say to someone, i often find myself a little lost. Any tips on dealing with this?

>> No.18257925

>>18257855
Native audio would be best (a TV show/film that you like and have subs for would be good) but if it's too hard then textbook audio would be fine for a while at least. Glossika puts out mp3s that are designed for this sort of repetition, but I dunno how good they are. Some people swear by them, others think their sentences have errors.
The aim of mindlessly repeating audio is similar to anki: it trains you. So when you next hear a similar sentence in the wild it'll feel familiar. That can help with expressing yourself too, as the right way of saying something will 'feel' right to you, as you've heard things said that way so may times before. This is how it works for your native language, after all. You just know that you can't say "David got on a taxi". It makes sense, but it doesn't feel right, even though you can say "David got on a train". But of course like anki you can't rely on that alone, so it's good that you study grammar, vocab, etc.

>> No.18257936

>>18257925
Thanks for the help then, i'll try to find a good jdrama or something and practice my listening/speaking with that alongside continuing to read

>> No.18258047

>>18257751
It's not a file, it's a folder.

Try searching your Anki username instead. That folder will definitely exist somewhere and the collection.media folder should be inside it (if not, you can probably just create it yourself).

>> No.18258072

Anyone here have experience with bunpro? Mainly interested in how well it teaches grammar. I can brute force words with anki or w/e.

>> No.18258138

>>18258072
Reading will teach you grammar better than whatever shitty app is being shilled on Reddit this week.

>> No.18258356
File: 1.50 MB, 2448x3264, 1493013247405.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18258356

キタ━━━━━━(゚∀゚)━━━━━━ !!!!!

>> No.18258363

>>18258356
y tho

>> No.18258399

>>18258363
Nice book, but the scanned version is a major pain to use (not a clean PDF with index), and I like having a grammar reference at the ready
Is it worth 30 bucks though? Only times will tell

>> No.18258414

>>18258356
>英語版
無意味じゃ

>> No.18258462

>>18258138
Yeah but how do you know what does that sentence say or that you are correct without knowing grammar? I see sentence, there are bunch of words I know but that's it. I understand maybe half of it if I'm lucky.

>> No.18258598

>>18258399
Is the scanned version in the CoR? I couldn't find it last I looked

>> No.18258621

Minami-Ke volume 2 is corrupted, I found a good RAW here: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6M-HwO1XticMWh3Szh0d3Ftd1U
Whoever manages the manga site should update it

>> No.18258748

>>18258598
It's an archive of images, not a PDF.

>> No.18258796

>>18257767
ついさっき漬け汁(細ねぎ、おろし生姜、にんにくのみじん切り、醤油大さじ4、みりん・酒各大さじ2、たまり醤油大さじ1)を作ってフィレを入れて、バスマティライスを洗って炊飯器のタイマーを設定した
後はオーベンにマスを焼いてご飯にサフランを入れるだけ
野菜も欲しいし余ったグリーンピースや人参の千切りをざっと煮て加えようかな

>> No.18258818

>>18258748
Found it, can change filename to cbz to make it a bit easier to use. Looks worth buying instead though

>> No.18258846
File: 2.75 MB, 1466x822, file.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18258846

>>18258796
ほら、美味しそうだろう

>> No.18258896

>>18258462
Look up the grammatical parts of the sentence in DoJG or HJGP or your local grammar guide and read the example sentences. You're not going to understand 100% no matter what for a very long time but that should get you through most sentences.

>> No.18259249

DDLC got a Japanese translation. This makes for nice reading and listening practice for anyone who is interested. He reads through it all and includes his own comments along the way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xziGTSHpuE

>> No.18259256

>>18259249
Meme game.

>> No.18259271

>>18259249
reminder to not read things translated into japanese

>> No.18259284
File: 234 KB, 329x437, 1501991724632.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18259284

>>18259271
good advice

>> No.18259313

>>18259249
>Japanese translation
For what reason? Might as well just read the english translation/

>> No.18259357

>>18257403
thanks

>> No.18259449
File: 267 KB, 840x1200, S4100007160761[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18259449

Every time I see a cover like this I get a pain in the pit of my stomach and the urge to put it in my shopping cart. How can I fix this or what are some other manga that I should order? I want DJT to decide my fate. おねがいします

>> No.18259461

>>18259449
That manga has already been scanned, though. I know because I read it.

>> No.18259465

>>18259449
>俺
Is it a trap?

>> No.18259466

>>18257276
Other LNs do it too, or at least the one I am currently reading. I guessed that writers do it because it's faster to read (and probably easier to write).

>> No.18259478

>>18259465
俺 is not the girl on the cover.

>> No.18259511
File: 48 KB, 346x500, 51+RSWisc9L.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18259511

>>18259461
Oh, I know -- I have the scans too. I just like having physical copies and showing support for the things that interest me (if I can't find a new copy, I'm not going to buy it).

>> No.18259522

>>18259511
Ah, I see. I thought you were talking about buying digital manga.

>> No.18259881

I haven't used anki in 5 months.
Should I even try to use the same cards.
Oh god its 1000 due.
Holy fuck.

>> No.18259894

>>18259881
No just give up, 洋館のtェアrんジャパ寝せ

>> No.18259985

>>18259881
I'm in a similar position. I got sick a while ago and couldn't face having to do my reps while feeling as shit as I did, and before long the review load ended up growing to the point where, even though I'm feeling better now, I think it's too late to go back to the deck and continue where I left off.

At the same time, I don't want to start a new deck after all the effort I put into making that one, but it also feels pointless to restart that deck considering how many cards in it are already known and thus a waste of time to review.

>> No.18260099

>営み
i constantly fail this word, its so vague

>> No.18260163

>>18259881
Why would you? You either graduated from using Anki and can read everything you want or you decided 5 months ago to stop this shit.

>> No.18260218

>>18259881
Just a 1000 and you're whining like that. Just quit whining and to your reps, like a real man should be doing.

>> No.18260250

>>18259881
If you have a lot of reviews, I recommend doing them in sets of smaller chunks. like doing 100 at a time. You can do this by setting review caps and slowly raising it after a set.

>> No.18260271

>>18260250
This anon is giving good advice and a thousand isn't that bad. You should be able to do that in less than a week if you still remember some stuff.

>> No.18260341

>>18260163
if he's thinking about starting again. He probably haven't graduated :\

>> No.18260544
File: 157 KB, 905x983, 1505558364962.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18260544

Are there any known mistakes in the Core decks?

>> No.18260547

Is there a way to view the html files in the Library with vertical text?

>> No.18260650
File: 109 KB, 386x373, anki_2017-06-05_20-11-09.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18260650

>>18260544
I mean this is a mistake......

Probably not what you mean though.

>> No.18260831

can someone post that image of the katakana shi and tsu staring at a monitor screen

cant find it

>> No.18260891
File: 51 KB, 491x585, 1511211339952.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18260891

>>18260831

>> No.18260943

>>18259511
えろーい

>> No.18261173

>learn 空く (すく - be empty) way back my early anki days
>continue working through the deck
>get 空く
>answer すく - be empty
>its a new card 空く (あく - to be free/available)
>look it up on jisho to see what I can find
>it is a word that means that pronounced あく
>the corresponding kanji however is 開く on there, and not 空く
Is this some weird exception or is it a mistake in the cards? Either way is it something important to know? Its fucking with my head

>> No.18261191

>correct answers on mature cards: less than 50%
ow

>> No.18261210

>>18261173
ぜんごではんだんだよ

なせばなる

>> No.18261214

>>18261173
空く(あく) and 空く(すく) are different words.

Either combine or delete cards with multiple valid readings. There's no way to distinguish between them out of context in Anki.

>> No.18261224

>>18261214
すくは他の漢字つかってもよかったんじゃないかなあ

ごせんぞさまがまちがった

すくないとも発音がにてるし

>> No.18261291

If you use "沢" and "村" for "Sawamura", would the surname mean "swamp village"?

>> No.18261342

>>18261291
沢 also means river and I think that's the sense intended in names

>> No.18261524

>>18261342

So "River Village" then?

>> No.18261627

mfw i have 6.5k reviews due

doesnt seem so bad since its out of 25k but still i havent done reps in a while

>> No.18261630

>>18261524
I guess, but why does it matter?

>> No.18261639

>>18261291
No the meaning is the name "sawamura", stop being an idiot.

>> No.18261707
File: 372 KB, 748x570, 1503867339545.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18261707

H-help.

>> No.18261746

>>18254438
~1 Hour, but I'm really skimping on grammar study.

>> No.18261758

>>18261524
それだと河村さんも川村さんも沢村さんも

RiverのVillageじゃない?

>> No.18261771

When a word has two readings like 心底, 贋物, etc. is there any resource I can use to see which is more common?
I found https://furigana.info/ but not sure how reliable it is.

>> No.18261780

>>18261707
Is that happening in all applications?

>> No.18261783

>>18261707
Both Windows and Google IME allows for custom inputs, very clever.

>>18261780
The anon is just shitposting.

>> No.18261790

>>18261707
さいきんもじせっとかえるのはやってるの

ふぁいるをUTF-8 +BOMでほぞんして

ひらけばなおるよ!

>> No.18261792

>>18261707
set text encoding to utf-8

>> No.18261803
File: 333 KB, 600x600, 1515972165991.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18261803

>>18261780
>>18261792
Only notepad.

I recently changed my locale to Japanese and opening some old txts give me corrupted diacritics and whatnot, but I made sure I'm typing in a UTF-8 file, shouldn't be giving me crap.

>>18261790
BOM?
I have recently installed a "security software" required to access my bank account (system reboot required) from my computer, I am starting to suspect it might have fucked up something but I have no idea what even to look for. Does that even make sense?

>> No.18261814

>>18261771
Try looking up 今日 on that site. Here's one that uses a bigger corpus (but only includes the kanji part, not the okurigana): https://core6000.neocities.org/furigana.txt

>> No.18261816

>>18261771
https://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/jn/114948/meaning/m0u/%E5%BF%83%E5%BA%95/
https://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/jn/115145/meaning/m0u/%E5%BF%83%E5%BA%95/

If you look at their J-J definitions, you can see that they have a special meaning with their reading.

>> No.18261817
File: 9 KB, 491x334, tkAIiIg.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18261817

this is getting annoying

>> No.18261820

>>18261803
>I made sure I'm typing in a UTF-8 file, shouldn't be giving me crap.
Are you really sure? I'm on Japanese locale and the default encoding for notepad files is ANSi. You need to change it to UTF-8 in the "save as" dialog box.

>> No.18261832

>>18261817
What is?

>> No.18261837

>>18261832
differing definitions being used in the sentence that arent listed or even explained

>> No.18261842
File: 33 KB, 620x122, kou.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18261842

>>18261803
>>18261820
notepadはBOMなしだとおもうよ

あたしはBOMありがいいとおもう

いろんはみとめる

うえがBOMなしで

したがBOMありだよ

>> No.18261844

>>18261837
when spelled with 遭 it means 遭遇する

>> No.18261856

>>18261844
thank you, i felt like it was an extended meaning but didnt really make sense in my head

>> No.18261861

>>18261820
I have modified my system ages ago to always create UTF-8 notepads.
Regardless, I have tried inputting at an old, previously saved UTF file, on a newly created one and also on an unsaved notepad.

I think it shouldn't even corrupt any characters BEFORE saving, since there is no set encoding yet.

>>18261842
How do I set that on Notepad and does that affect ALL Japanese text, or only the beginning?

>> No.18261865

>>18261803
ぎゃくだったよ

notepadはだいたいBOMありになるみたいだよ

>> No.18261887

>>18261861
By the way, I should add I have no problem copypasting Japanese text into these Notepad files, it's just the "enter conversion" that is giving me mojibake.

>> No.18261888

>>18261861
I recognize that this is just skirting around the issue, but why not use Notepad++ instead?

>I think it shouldn't even corrupt any characters BEFORE saving, since there is no set encoding yet.
This is a false assumption.

>> No.18261897

>>18261861
とにかく3バイト

かきかえちゃえ

EF BB BFってかいてあればひらけるよ

>> No.18261905

>>18261816
You mean their second definitions? I guess, but they also list the other word in the first definition.
>>18261814
Thanks. I'll use this from now on.

>> No.18261915
File: 36 KB, 653x316, 遭う.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18261915

>>18261817
This is why it's best to mine your own cards as soon as possible. You get to look up and include the full, accurate definitions instead of having some vague unexplained meaning shoved on you.

>> No.18261917

Just attempted to type in Cyrillic and it works fine, since there is no input conversion.

>>18261888
That's what I have been doing, but I want Notepad-chan back, fuck ++.
Worst thing is - if the bank thing is the culprit, I severely doubt many people have had the same issue, so Googling would be useless.

>This is a false assumption.
Well, I'm basing it off me having always been able to paste Chinese scribbles on Notepad and just changing the encoding at the time of saving Untitled.txt, so I wouldn't get corrupted text when re-opening it.

>> No.18261925



じしん

ちょっとゆれたこわい

>> No.18261934

>>18261915
合う

ってのがあってこれもよくでるよ

>> No.18261938

>>18261915
>This is why it's best to mine your own cards as soon as possible.
...or you know, just look up the words you encounter in a premade deck just to double check their definition?

>> No.18261943

>>18261938
literally better to mine if you're putting in any effort to fixing the cards

>> No.18261974
File: 16 KB, 434x350, au.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18261974

>>18261856

>> No.18261977

>>18261974
70%が会うで

20%が合うだよ

ほかのはほとんどつかわない

>> No.18262109

これなんていってるの?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOtLb34Osl0

>> No.18262133

>>18262109
This has what to do with learning Japanese?

>> No.18262200

>>18262109
"wäre fast gestorben"
How does your hand almost getting hurt equal almost dying?

>> No.18262285
File: 422 KB, 919x401, uFe4UJl.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18262285

i dont understand the grammar in the second bubble.

どう転んでもいいように
in particular and why だけ is after highschool

even looking at a translation nothing is connecting dots

>> No.18262291

>>18262285
You never know what the future will bring so atleast get through highschool

>> No.18262295

>>18262285
>>18262291
http://www.mangareader.net/flying-witch/2/8
Is this wrong then? It seems like two completely different meanings

>> No.18262303

>>18262295
Thanks for the chuckle, that's some google translate tier translations. In fact I think google translate might be better

>> No.18262313

>>18258356
>English edition
good job getting the version with watered down explanations

>> No.18262326

>>18261817
The 遭 kanji makes the encounter undesirable. Have fun learning 逢う and 遇う too

>> No.18262341

>>18261915
What website is this?

>> No.18262351

>>18262200
えいごじゃなかったの

ごめんなさい

>> No.18262354

>>18262341
http://jisho.org/search?utf8=&keyword=会う

>> No.18262363

>>18262351
Why do keep coming here and roleplaying as a mentally stunted Japanese? Is this a fetish thing for you?

>> No.18262376

>>18262285
>出ときなさい
https://www.google.co.jp/search?q="出ときなさい"
>368 results
What did they mean by this?

>> No.18262399

>>18262376
That the amount of results means nothing

>> No.18262405

>>18262399
...or it means it's not a commonly written phrase but rather something that is spoken? ...and I'm wondering how that phrase works/what the full phrase is, assuming there is one.

>> No.18262418
File: 8 KB, 250x250, 1502070112144.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18262418

>>18262376
出る -> 出ておく -> 出とく -> 出ときなさい

>> No.18262435

>>18262418
ありがとう、めぐみん先生

>> No.18262444

>>18262295
God, that's bad.

>> No.18262447

>>18262295
Whoever wrote this translation doesn't know japanese. Please don't use this as a resource.

>> No.18262481

>>18262285
>>18262291
Can you post the whole page, I wanna laugh some more

>> No.18262485
File: 418 KB, 1356x2040, ふらいんぐうぃっち_1_042.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18262485

>>18262481

>> No.18262488
File: 338 KB, 1356x2040, ふらいんぐうぃっち_1_043.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18262488

>>18262485

>> No.18262647 [DELETED] 

this thread sucks

>> No.18262678
File: 217 KB, 512x512, 1486163159715.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18262678

>>18258414
>>18262313
Is it really that bad? I assumed english edition was the way to go for learning purposes. Also I never realized the jp edition was in the CoR, guess I should have looked into that beforehand
But oh well, I bet you guys are just trying to make me feel bad about my purchase aren't you?

>> No.18262704

>>18262678
there's nothing horribly wrong with the english version, it just has a typo here or there

>> No.18262727
File: 112 KB, 302x224, hato.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18262727

>> No.18262753

>>18262678
Someone literally just kind of assumed that it's watered down because it says that it's not the "original" version, rather a translation.

It's not watered down.

>> No.18262876

>>18262647
gomenasai

>> No.18262965

>>18262876
ぷろぱんがだi

>> No.18263005

>>18261915
You only need to worry about kanji nuance if you're writing. People get by just fine in spoken Japanese without these alternative kanji spellings. What matters is that you can read the word when you see it and know what it means. The nuance is clear from the context, as you can see in the example sentence on the card.

>> No.18263101

I wish anki would show you stroke order for kanji

>> No.18263111

>>18263101
Both the KKLC and the RTK decks have them

>> No.18263112

>>18263101
http://www.nihilist.org.uk/

>> No.18263158

>>18263111
Is there was to get these fonts working on AnkiDroid?

>> No.18263315

So I got bunch of nip novelists whose work isnt translated for the most part and probably never will be.

How long would it take for one or two hour practice per day to be proficient enough to read actual novels in japanese?

>> No.18263323

>>18263315
>>18250210

>> No.18263337

>>18263323
Isnt that just a meme? Well, I do wonder if its worth it as she might have just hit it off the park with one work and rest might be shite

>> No.18263346

how many anki cards do you go through a day? 30 new cards and about 100 old cards take me about 5-10 minutes and i'm wondering if i should raise it

>> No.18263368

>>18263337
>please ask me who im talking about
>please ask me who im talking about

>> No.18263384

>>18263315
>How long would it take for one or two hour practice per day to be proficient enough to read actual novels in japanese?
Probably 4 years, assuming you put constant effort every day and that time includes everything including study, Anki and reading. Less than 2 if you spend more time daily.

>> No.18263385
File: 97 KB, 600x336, 160807_popute_01.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18263385

>>18250600
どん百姓(どんびゃくしょう)/「土百姓」の漢字を当てる場合も
>>18250692
グリコ
子供の遊唄
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3vF5OlVgfk
階段でジャンケンをして
グーで勝った場合:「グリコ」(一部地方では「グスベリ」)と言いながら3歩進む。
チョキで勝った場合:「チヨコレイト」と言いながら6歩進む。
パーで勝った場合 :「パイナツプル」(一部地方では「パラシュート」)と言いながら6歩進む。

>> No.18263386

>>18263337
It's a meme because it's true.

>> No.18263406

Any good listening files or recommendations to listen to? N2-N1 advanced level stuff

Yes, I know I can just listen to music or whatever i want (including getting it often living here in Japan) but I figure thats too random (basic, slang, old Japanese, etc).

Curious if there's any files focused on preparing/practicing listening as test preparation or whatever, tailed more towards a student learning Japanese

>> No.18263424

Do you guys find value in mixing the new cards for the day into the reviews instead of reviewing all the new cards beforehand? Trying to figure out if there's any value in attempting to recall a kanji you've never seen then checking to see if you should even know it at all (might make you better at differentating them?)

>> No.18263427

Not totally sure what the "Gengo Japanese Audio" files are supposed to be but downloading them gives me a zip of Tobira. Something weird
https://mega.nz/#F!LhUXVLgR!GgqE8y5Ta5Tt8TP8tzrPXA

>> No.18263440
File: 607 KB, 1150x1629, new books.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18263440

New books in http://djt.netlify.com/
[さがら総・渡航(Speakeasy)] クズと金貨のクオリディア
[るーすぼーい] 白蝶記 —どうやって獄を破り、どうすれば君が笑うのか—
[アサウラ] 道‐MEN 北海道を喰いに来た乙女
[ワカツキヒカル] To LOVEる—ダークネス Little Sisters<りとしす>
[ヰ坂暁] 舌の上の君
[上遠野浩平] 恥知らずのパープルヘイズ—ジョジョの奇妙な冒険より—
[下村健] ソシャゲライター クオリアちゃん —恋とシナリオと報酬を—
[中里十] 君が僕を
[中野孝次] すらすら読める徒然草
[丸山くがね] オーバーロード
[乙一] The Book ~jojo’s bizarre adventure 4th another day~
[今村夏子] 星の子
[今村昌弘] 屍人荘の殺人
[佐野徹夜] この世界にiをこめて
[入間人間] 安達としまむら
[入間人間] 少女妄想中
[冲方丁] ばいばい、アース
[北國ばらっど] 僕らはリア充なのでオタクな過去などありません(大嘘)
[古味直志/田中創] ニセコイ ウラバナ
[安里アサト] 86―エイティシックス―
[山本周五郎] 栄花物語
[山本周五郎] 町奉行日記
[山本周五郎] 青べか物語
[延野正行] 0.000000001%デレない白い猫
[折口良乃] モンスター娘のお医者さん
[持崎湯葉] その10文字を、僕は忘れない
[柚月裕子] 盤上の向日葵
[橘公司] デート・ア・ライブ
[水野良] ロードス島伝説
[池井戸潤] ようこそ、わが家へ
[池井戸潤] 最終退行
[沼田まほかる] ユリゴコロ
[渡辺淳一] 鈍感力
[王雀孫] 始まらない終末戦争と終わってる私らの青春活劇
[田中芳樹] 銀河英雄伝説
[知念実希人] 崩れる脳を抱きしめて
[竹宮ゆゆこ] 応えろ生きてる星
[花村萬月] 皆月
[若竹千佐子] おらおらでひとりいぐも
[荻原規子] RDG レッドデータガール
[角川書店] ビギナーズ・クラシックス 日本の古典
[賀東招二] コップクラフト
[赤城大空] 出会ってひと突きで絶頂除霊
[鏡貴也] 終わりのセラフ 吸血鬼ミカエラの物語
[陳浩基] 13・67
[鴨志田一] Just Because!
New volumes:
[鈴木大輔] 文句の付けようがないラブコメ (+2-6)
[西尾維新] 十二大戦 (+2)
[丸戸史明] 冴えない彼女の育てかた (+12-13)
[衣笠彰梧] ようこそ実力至上主義の教室へ (+3-6)
Download: https://djtguide.neocities.org/djtlib_link.txt

Thanks to the anons who shared a bunch of these. One person donated 350 epubs published by Jump. The total filesize of those was too large for the current host, so for now I only added a few with good reviews to the library. Here's a quick download index for the rest until I can work out a new hosting arrangement: https://djtguide.neocities.org/lib_extra.html

>> No.18263450

How difficult is Natsume Soseki to read in Japanese?

>> No.18263457

>>18263450
Impossible. Not even natives can read it.

>> No.18263466

>>18263457
The audience is just roaring with laughter

>> No.18263473

>>18263466
Can you read it?

>> No.18263476

Is japanese the hardest language to learn in the world?

>> No.18263501

>>18263440
Thanks a lot as always. Highlight of this update are the azw3 of Copcraft and Youjitsu for me (although I bought all the digital volumes of the latter a week ago on sale already). Definitely check these out for anyone wondering what to read.

>> No.18263520

>>18263476
You can't say it's the hardest to learn, as that implies you can learn Japanese.

>> No.18263528

it's not actually possible for westerners to learn this language. you've all been trolled.

>> No.18263544 [DELETED] 

does being a slav count as being westener?

>> No.18263574 [DELETED] 
File: 333 KB, 640x1184, spurdo1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18263574

>be a mongol
>you will never be able to learn japanese

>> No.18263580

>>18263574
translate it weebs

>> No.18263623

Why is に used like と(with) sometimes?
Example :
A-kunにB-san
when wanting to refer to two persons being together.
I can't find anything about this.

>> No.18263674

You can learn Japanese, don't give up.

>> No.18263766
File: 117 KB, 1200x1063, DTk_1IrU0AE7B1z.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18263766

>>18252906
mere 使役構文
かぐや様は告らせたい
Kaguya wants to let them confess to herself
>>18255277
くせが強い:strong habit
この場合は
The bamboo has a too strong character (for witches ) to ride on
かな?
>>18257549
lewd
>>18260099
男女の営み
lewd
>>18261771
この場合は、単に訓と音の違いで意味は同じ
しんそこ/しんてい, にせもの/がんぶつ
>>18262285
>どう転んでもいいように、(せめて)高校だけは出ておけ
「せめて~だけ(でも)」の「せめて」と「でも」が省略されているだけ
No matter what happens, you should graduate at least only in a high school.

>> No.18263856

>>18263501
don't samefag

>> No.18263877

>>18263856
they're not samefagging

>>18263440
did anybody convince calibre's devs to support vertical text yet? it's really not even hard if you're doing your own text rendering - just tell harfbuzz that it's vertical and look up the rotation property for each codepoint in http://www.unicode.org/Public/vertical/revision-17/VerticalOrientation-17.txt - splitting the string whenever the orientation changes

>> No.18263890
File: 71 KB, 300x259, 5e8f36e71093c558edf5f787cecd91f7-300x259.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18263890

>>18262376
連母音の融合
eo→o
でておきなさい→deteokinasai→detokinasai→でときなさい
>>18263623
A君とBさん: A and B
A君にBさん(も):particular A and B
A君にBさんも、保健室で一緒に寝ていた。

>> No.18263911

>>18263346
How long have you done it for? Over time the reps add up and your review time becomes very long.
If anki is easy, spend more time reading/listening/studying grammar

>> No.18263928
File: 155 KB, 1162x1200, DNy2i41VQAArntp.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18263928

>>18250154
やっと分かったよー
裸になればいいんだー
>I finally understand. I need to get naked.

i dont get why the eba form is translated as need to. for me this looks like
>its ok the be naked.

>> No.18263996

Can I come back and re-do the deck I just did?

>> No.18264015

>>18263996
Anki's only support for cramming is the Custom Study mode. Any other kind of time spent cramming is better spent studying in ways other than flashcards.

>> No.18264052
File: 206 KB, 926x1077, 1515038802573.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18264052

Does anyone remember the name of that japanese thing where they teach english with cursing anime girls? I cant find it anywhere.
Was thinking it would be fun to reverse learn from it

>> No.18264053

>>18263890
>A君にBさん(も):particular A and B
"particular"より"particularly"が言ったかったのか?
つまり、Aを焦点して、Bがただのつけ者ってことか?

>> No.18264086

>>18264052
Pixel Maritan

>> No.18264103

>>18264053
「A君に(加え)Bさんまでも、保健室寝ていた」
とすればfocusは、「Bさん」に移動する。
これは、例えば、
「保健室にコンドームが落ちていた」という既存の情報があったとして、
「A君は保健室で寝ていた」
「(A君に加えて)Bさんも、保健室で一緒に寝ていた」
という新たな情報が追加されたから。

>> No.18264156
File: 24 KB, 444x447, 1506043289204.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18264156

>>18264086
Bless you anon. I hope you find nice gf

>> No.18264171
File: 432 KB, 1000x750, Djmonslayer1396182390.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18264171

>>18264103
おおー、なるほど
ついに分かってきた。
「A君はいい、でもその上、Bさんも/がいて」ってことね
細かい説明ありがとうございました

>> No.18264264
File: 260 KB, 620x640, 1516084331057.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18264264

How important is learning both Onyomi and Kunyomi in kanji?
Should I just focus on the onyomi since it's used more(?) or should I go the extra mile and also learn the kunyomi?

>> No.18264291

>>18264264
it's not a question of either or

>> No.18264293

>>18264264
you're wasting your fucking time

http://www.guidetojapanese.org/blog/2014/06/23/you-cant-learn-kanji/

>> No.18264302

>>18264264
Do you want to read the words that use on reading or kun reading? What about words that use neither?

>> No.18264305

>>18264264
>learning readings on their own
ストップ!

Problem 1: The "compound words use onyomi readings and other words use kunyomi readings" 'rule' has a great many exceptions and can't be relied on.

Problem 2: Even if the above 'rule' held in 100% of cases, many kanji have more than one onyomi and/or kunyomi reading so you still wouldn't know how to read words without looking them up.

Problem 3: Some words don't even use the readings of the kanji they're written with (当て字).

Don't waste your time. You can learn readings by learning words which is an infinitely more productive activity.

>> No.18264406

>>18264264
Don't do isolated Kanji study unless you are

1) Learning how to write as a supplement to your main studies (which is reading)
2) Having a hard time distinguishing between kanji as a beginner (though, radical study would be much better for this). Once again, only if this is supplemental. Don't put off reading just for kanji.

You'll learn onyomi/kunyomi while you read and learn words.

>> No.18264424

>>18264293
>>18264305
>>18264406
Go away drones.

>> No.18264428

>>18264424
You are the drone.

>> No.18264429

I just started Anki, and I feel like I did a good job for my first review. Is this only limited to once a day for the current set of cards?

For instance, if I were to go at it again today, would it give me new cards too or could I just go over the ones I learned today?

>> No.18264439

>>18264171
>>18264053
*particular (A and B)
「特定の」または「限定された」というつもりでparticularを使った
三項より上になるとはっきりする
AとBとC→単純列挙illustrative enumeration:単なる説明のための例示
AにBにC→限定列挙limitative listing:A・B・Cの三つに限定される例示
例:AにBにCは、ここを通ってよい。
ただし、あくまでも口語での違いを強調している。
書き言葉としては「A、B及びC」で限定列挙である場合も多い。
また
AとBにCの場合→A及びB並びにCの場合: if( (A and B) and also C)
と階層的な条件を表す場合もある(厳密に書く場合は文語の並立の接続詞「及び」と「並びに」を使う)。

>> No.18264465

>>18264429
it will let you repeat the ones you learned today and show you new ones too

>> No.18264516

>>18264465
Can I make it so that it will only show me the ones I learned today?

>> No.18264574

Being a lowlife aside, does playing NEWラブプラス+ help with improving Japanese? How hard is it?

>> No.18264597

>>18264574
>does using Japanese help with improving Japanese
I don't know, I think it might

>> No.18264620

>>18264597
How hard is it though? Most of my vocabs are from manga so I dunno if it's adequate

>> No.18264622

>>18264574
Anything and everything that is in Japanese helps with improving your Japanese. As for the difficulty, if you can read moege you can probably play that game.

>> No.18264637

>>18264424
Good argument.

>> No.18264673

>>18264264
How do you distinguish between one another?

>> No.18264682

>>18264516
Please respond. :)

>> No.18264699

>>18264516
>>18264682
click deck
click custom study
click review forgotten cards
click okay
delete temporary deck when done


unless your retention is really shit, you don't need to do this

>> No.18264767

>>18264699
So I should be good just studying once a day?

>> No.18264935

>>18264574
Just try it?
Surely your 3DS must have CFW by now right?

>> No.18264943

Should I start with either Grammar, Vocabulary or both at once?

>> No.18264963

>>18264943
Read through a grammar guide and start mining vocab from as you do.

>> No.18264965

>>18264943
Both

>> No.18265035

Do you listen to music during your study session?

>> No.18265041

>>18265035
I listen to studying during my music session

>> No.18265044

>>18263440
Very cool. Also do you take requests or just snag whatever you can find?

>> No.18265076

Any merit to doing DoJG deck? The actual DoJG books are great but I am wondering if it's useful in Anki-style vs. just looking stuff up when interested.

>> No.18265082

>>18265035
At low volume

>> No.18265101

>>18265076
Try it yourself and see if shit sticks better or not.

>> No.18265102

>>18264767
Probably. See how you get on without custom studies.

>> No.18265108

>>18265035
Lately I've been listening to the Madoka and No Game No Life soundtracks (at a lowish volume). I just find it makes reading tricky stuff more tolerable since you have the music in the background to boost your fun levels.

>> No.18265116

>>18265076
no

like steve-sama says, grammar explanations are of limited use until you've had a decent amount of exposure to the grammar being explained. you're never going to really "get" the grammar only from reading about it; you need to actually experience it yourself in a meaningful context.

>> No.18265121

>>18263440
青べか物語 and RDG look interesting to me. Thanks for this.

>> No.18265167

>>18265076
grammar decks and sentence decks are for people who are allergic to reading. if you do little enough to not get in the way of reading it doesn't accomplish anything, if you do enough to get in the way of reading you're wasting your time.

>> No.18265168

Don't listen to this anon >>18265116 .Try it and see if it helps. Just make sure you're reading alongside of going through it.

>> No.18265171

>>18265168
How many long-form stories have you finished?

>> No.18265194
File: 950 KB, 1026x578, gh.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18265194

>>18265171
A bunch. Pic related. She's referring to me.

>> No.18265277

Where do you guys get your VNs?

>> No.18265287

>>18265277
From Getchu, unless somewhere else has a tokuten I want more than Getchu's.

>> No.18265295
File: 352 KB, 652x326, Screen Shot 2018-01-18 at 7.52.38 PM.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18265295

>tfw you read your first sentence with no help other than a dictionary for kanji

Took me 5 mins but feels good

>> No.18265321

>>18265277
animebytes
doesn't nyaa (+sukebei) have a bunch?

>> No.18265358
File: 16 KB, 500x375, COME ON AND SLAM.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18265358

>>18250154
>>18250154
Hey 日本語が出来る posters I got a 質問. When you have こと at the end of a verb, it just turns it into a noun phrase, right?

Ex:
日本ではなぜこのように色々な宗教が共に存在ことが出来るのだろうか。

How would the sentence change if you had 存在が出来る instead?

>> No.18265511
File: 482 KB, 1366x768, Screenshot (102).png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18265511

First page and I'm already confused, I'm even supposed to be helping someone understand it. For context she had trouble opening up the locker. Page after that the door to the roof is locked then she says "これじゃ期待できないじゃない". Is there some sort of joke here?

>> No.18265640

>>18265076
its a decent introduction for exposure and connecting some dots, but it should be done as fast as possible, I spent 2 months on it with minimal reading and while I came out with a lot of useful knowledge, I couldve crammed it harder and just read the rest of the time and probably became more comfortable with it. It's still good to build on top of something like Tae Kim, just don't let it consume your time in the long or medium term.

>> No.18265669

>>18265358
>存在こと
Don't think that exists (kek)

>> No.18265673

>>18265511
When someone opens your locker you might think that they're putting a love letter in there. And if you go to the rooftop you might expect a love confession. I'm just guessing I haven't read this.

>> No.18265684

>>18265673
That's a stretch, but it's better than nothing. Thanks.

>> No.18265750

>>18265511
It's about confessions.

"Why is there a door on my locker? All it does is get my hopes up for nothing"

"Why is the door locked? All it does is not let my get my hopes up"

The joke is that she's contradicting herself. She accidentally gets excited when she opens her locker because something might be there and it "annoys" her, but at the same time she can't stumble into something on the roof because the door is locked and that also annoys her.

>> No.18265837

how do i learn this language through listening if i dont understand any of the words. if i keep listening to japanese speakers for hours a day will i magically learn the words?

>> No.18265848

>>18265295
SAY HEY しんちゃn!

>> No.18265887

>>18265837
>will i magically learn the words?
No. Ideally you would have a japanese transcript of the audio that you're listening to and you would then look up ~20 words a day or whatever and add them to Anki to help remind you of the words you're learning every once in awhile.
Less ideally, you would just mine words from wherever and eventually you'll start to pick them up in audio.
Learning from audio alone is only possible once you have a base vocabulary that can be used to describe the new words.

>> No.18265926

i dont want to do anki anymore. i did like 800 words. that should be enough.

>> No.18265936
File: 501 KB, 862x1280, 0025.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18265936

>>18250154
>>18256697
Found another browser tool for Firefox 57 users if you've found Yomichan annoying
Search for "Rikaichamp" in the extension store. It's another port of Rikai, it keeps the old interface and doesn't add so much fucking bloat.

>>18263450
>almost 3 years of ineffective study and half-ass reading boring stuff
>J-cat scores ~7 months apart 141,197,214,220
>move out on my own
>finally free to play whatever games and read whatever I want for hours on end
>90% eroge & eromanga
>totally forget about all the grammar books, decks, self-tests and study books
>just laser-focused on reading smut and unlocking scenes
>remember the J-cat over a year later, take it, score 348
If anyone ever asks me how I did it, my plan is to tell them I read compelling content like the works of Natsume Soseki

>>18265837
>trying to learn by listening
No.

>> No.18265944

>>18265837
through listening alone? that's going to be extremely difficult. reading is a much more productive use of your time.

>if i keep listening to japanese speakers for hours a day will i magically learn the words?
no

>> No.18265956

>>18265936
>Rikaichamp
We've known about that for ages already. It's a Rikaikun port and doesn't have Anki integration.

>> No.18265963
File: 123 KB, 1794x601, 1504406512316.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18265963

>>18265926

>> No.18265991
File: 63 KB, 810x900, 1512310228142.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18265991

H-How much of Anki do you do per day, /jp/?

Following the advice of some anons I've started to try to actually LEARN kanji while learning vocabulary. Before this, I was basically only going through it without paying much attention and focusing on the words. The result is that I basically click again and good (10m) for everything until I remember it and get it right.

...What's nice, except because now I have basically 200 cards only to review today. Is that the expected? How many hours should I dedixate to Anki or I'm being too nitpicking? lol

>> No.18265996

>Newspapers 150,859

wow they make their propaganda hard to read

>> No.18266034

I can't begin to imagine how good would it feel to be able to finally say "I made it, I've learned Japanese"
How did it feel for you?

>> No.18266065

>>18266034
まだまだですね

>> No.18266078

>>18265991
>How many hours should I dedixate to Anki
<0.75

>> No.18266102

>>18266034
I can't imagine there being a point like that because it just slowly happens over time; you just start having to look up fewer and fewer words so it never sets in that you've made it.

>> No.18266125

>>18266078
Less than 45 minutes? Well, so I can't understand what I'm doing wrong. The guide says to set the review limit to 9999, but I thought I wouldn't have to worry about 300+ cards per day happening and that's basically what's starting to happen

>> No.18266139

>>18265991
As much as you're comfortable with
The more important thing is reading

>> No.18266195

>>18266139
Uhm, well, so it isn't that important? I shouldn't spend much time on this?
I thought I should maybe set the number of reviews to something that fits, or then just leave it how it is, study for x time and leave the rest without finishing the deck.

Won't I miss words doing so?

>> No.18266296

>>18266125
I do 20 new kanji (RTK style) a day in anki and get about 100 reviews a day with 20 new cards added in

>> No.18266307

>start core 2k
>kanji words are hard af and make my brain hurt
>hiragana words are easy af and a nice break
>keep doing core 2k
>kanji words aren't really that bad, I can even sometimes correctly guess the reading on brand new words having learned previous ones
>hiragana words are my bane and I constantly mix them up, forget them, and get them wrong
How do you guys keep all these words straight? I am struggling greatly with them

>> No.18266443

>>18266195
Lower your new cards if you must, but don't limit your reviews or leave them undone. You'll get faster with practice and you should also deliberately be trying to go as fast you can. Don't waste too much time staring at the front of a card praying to remember it. When you have a new or forgotten card, you can take a few moments to think up a mnemonic or write it or whatever helps you, but most reviews can be done in a few seconds.

>> No.18266467

>>18265837
>will i magically learn the words
No more than if you opened a book and stared at words you don't know for an hour. You have to look things up in the dictionary then drill them.

>> No.18266499

Are there any apps that are actually useful? I just started but am overwhelmed by the amount of available teaching sources and don't know what to pick.

No, I don't plan on focusing on learning through any app. Yes, I would like to try out some if they can keep me busy while I can't be home.

>> No.18266506

うたかたの

ゆめやぶれたし

Japanese

やばれかばれに

AnnkiのSeppuku

>> No.18266508

>>18266499
Kanji study is the best app!!!

>> No.18266537

>N1 full marks is due in 2 days
>reading/watching in jap comfortably
what's left to "study", ankifags?

>> No.18266548

>>18266537
LARPing?

>> No.18266553

>>18266537
Production, presumably.

>> No.18266577

wait, so if 里 means hometown, and 子 can be pronounced し, then is Ash Ketchum (aka さとし) literally the hometown kid?

>> No.18266612

>>18266577
> さと ⇒ 砂糖 ⇒ sugar
>  し  ⇒ 獅 ⇒ lion

then is Ash Ketchum (aka さとし) literally the SUGARY LION?

new pokee-mon confirmed?

>> No.18266620
File: 415 KB, 661x600, 1498767749668.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18266620

>>18266508
I-I was already doing that. And reading about it I am scared of the Anki thing because I am scared I don't understand its structure.

>> No.18266623

>>18266577
If 馬 means horse, and 鹿 means deer, are you literally a horsedeer?

>> No.18266630
File: 37 KB, 594x478, -7_574857c934073.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18266630

>>18266537
learn the true moonSPEEK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1w_bUFR1v2U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoMUm7gjho0

>> No.18266675

かならずたすける

あたしをしんじて

>> No.18266686

>>18266577
聡 (さとし) is a common name. I don't think there's an underlying pun like that.

>> No.18266712

>>18266623
馬鹿 is 当て字

>> No.18266719

is there any way or tool to count words by their frequency within a document? lack of spaces makes this tricky for conventional Western word-counters

>> No.18266753

>>18266719
or at least by kanji frequency?*

>> No.18266781

>後悔したところで先に立つものではないが、それらにいとも容易く溺れてしまったことに葵依の胸を重たい罪悪感が苛む。

I am confused by that which precedes the comma. Either way, it seems to say that it is too late for 後悔, but what is the meaning of "先に立つものではない"? 何が先に立つのでしょうか?よろしければ教えてください。

>> No.18266803

>>18266781
あたしはなんかへんだとおもう

>後悔したところで先立つものはないが

これならみたことある。お金がないってこと

>> No.18266817

わかったー

>後悔先に立たず

これのへんけいだよ

じかんかかってごめんなさいおにいちゃん

>> No.18266822

>>18266712
no shit

>> No.18266827

>>18265837
I learnt through listening. The way to do it is to watch thousands of hours of anime with English subs

>> No.18266850

>>18266827
I've heard English dub is actually faster

>> No.18266856

Is it better to spend more time on a kanji deck like kklc or vocab at first?
I'm doing like 50/50 right now because I had trouble remembering nonintuitive characters but now that I'm more comfortable I'm thinking about dropping the kanji deck and focus on vocab, while looking up new kanji as they come for a potential meaning.

>> No.18266886

>>18266856
read the DoJG

>> No.18266887

>>18266781
>>18266803
後悔しても何にもならないということだろうか
つまり、先に立つのは利益とか

>> No.18266904

>>18266803
>>18266817
>>18266887
What a peculiar turn of phrase... Well, the meaning sort of comes to me now. Thanks. 妹様にも感謝。

>> No.18266923
File: 76 KB, 383x499, 617I9skLmkL._SX381_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18266923

Thought this'd be a meme but it's asctaully pretty good. Wouldn't read it it by itself and you don't need it after Tae Kim but it's a fun, quick read.

>> No.18266934

>>18266887
>後になって悔んでも

>しょうがないとはわかっていても

>苛まれないということにはならない

こういうかんじだよ

>> No.18266939

>>18266923
I've seen explanations from it posted here a few times and was always always impressed with their clarity compared to other resources. I kind of wish I'd read it instead of Tae Kim since I honestly found the majority of his explanations really confusing.

>> No.18266949
File: 795 KB, 1200x1600, IMG_2163.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18266949

Anyone here play bravely second/default? just found that Second (and maybe Default?) let's you change audio and text to Japanese, even in the NA version.

>> No.18266951

>>18266850
I heard shitposting on Japanese learning threads is the fastest way. I see you are using that method

>> No.18266960

>>18266886
I mean sure, but why?

>> No.18266973

>>18266923
夏子の酒 is a really good manga. I recommend it.

>> No.18266983

>>18266960
read dobjg 1 entry every day
10 minutes for huge returns.

>> No.18266996

>>18266983
Not that I disagree, but this doesn't really have anything to do with my post does it? Or am I missing something?

>> No.18267022

>>18266923
I read it by itself without Tae Kim or anything and it worked well (at preparing me for native content).

>> No.18267042

>けどよ、共学ってゆーほど女子イベントねーよな。

Some guys were happy they got girlfriends but it turned out they were just virtual. What does ゆーほど mean? Is it slang for よっぽど?

>> No.18267059

>>18267042
いう is pronounced ゆう in most contexts of the standard language, including songs etc.

>> No.18267062

>>18267042
あくせんとそこじゃないよ

>けどよ、共学って↓ゆ↑ーほ↑ど↑女子イベントね↑ーよな。

おとこことばはわかりやすいよ

>> No.18267074

>>18267042
ゆー=いう
tte iu

>> No.18267078

>>18267059
>>18267062
>>18267074
That simple, huh? Let this be a lesson to all you kids. Don't overthink things too hard. Thanks for the help.

>> No.18267092

>>18266951
It's the only way I know how

>> No.18267097

>>18267062
anon君って実際こういう説明されたら分かるもんなの?

>> No.18267112

>>18267042
>>18267078
Just looked back and there's an ellipsis after 共学って. I'm assuming the meaning stays the same regardless?

>> No.18267141
File: 2.83 MB, 1280x720, 1514909068986.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18267141

2 days and I'm still not through the first chapter of the Overlord LN yet ;_;

I was told in the last thread (or maybe the thread before that) that Overlord wasn't that difficult as far as LNs go, but I've been having a quite a struggle with it. Some sentences I understand no problem, but others have been leaving me completely stumped with only the vaguest idea of what's being said. I almost gave up after the first few pages because I was understanding so little, but today I've thankfully been doing better.

Maybe that month-long break from Japanese did me more harm than I thought, or maybe I was just never as good as the easy material I'd been reading up to now had led me to believe I was. I guess the fact that I know next to nothing about MMORPGs isn't helping matters, but maybe that's just me making excuses.

>> No.18267154

>>18267141
Things get a lot easier when you stick with something since you get used to the lingo and writing style.
So keep going. You'll get there.

>> No.18267171

>>18267141
When you start, try re-reading a few pages from last time. Helps to retain vocab and grammar.

>> No.18267177

>>18267141
Is it really not that hard an LN? I had no trouble with Kino's Journey, so maybe I'll start with Overlord next. Been wanting to read that for a while now.
On the topic of relatively easy LNs, does anyone know how difficult No Game No Life is?

>> No.18267186

>>18266973
Is it worth reading even if I have no interest in or knowledge about any kind of alcoholic beverage?

>> No.18267190

>>18267141
I was the anon that told you that. Keep it up. There's always a difficulty bump when reading a new book, and if you haven't read anything in the fantasy genre before I imagine you'll have an even tougher time getting accustomed to the vocabulary. When you finish the first book I promise you'll have a much easier time with the rest. Of course, if you feel that it's way too difficult you should not hesitate to come back to it later instead. That being said, feel free to ask questions when you fail to understand something. I'll be glad to help.

>> No.18267200

>>18267186
I think so. It's less a story about alcohol in itself than a story about the life of farmers in general. Although the making of sake is the focus.

>> No.18267201

>>18267177
>No Game No Life
When I google'd for easy LNs in the past, I seem to recall that came up on a few of the pages I found.

>> No.18267226

>>18267200
I see. It's already in my manga folder for some reason, so might as well give it a shot.

>> No.18267234

H-h-how many manga should I have read before trying to read an LN? All that text is so intimidating.

>> No.18267240

>>18267177
Based on just now reading the Prologue of Overlord #1 it doesn't seem to be any more difficult than Kino. Some of the vocab is 中二ish, but vocab is easy to look up.

>> No.18267264

>>18267234
I read about about 35 volumes of manga before starting any LN and I wished I had started reading sooner, it was very easy. Just read whatever you want now, don't be intimidated.

>> No.18267266
File: 34 KB, 232x400, 51Or5HWKHjL.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18267266

ふらわーなくなった

おにいちゃんかってきて

>> No.18267445

>>18267266
いいよ
なん個いる
個はただしいか? わかんない

>> No.18267646

https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/1417170896

Someone suggested me this to deal with backlogs, is it useful?
Also, recommend me plugins you like

>> No.18267651

Was starting KKLC a mistake or a bit of a beginner trap? I find kanji meanings to be interesting but my pace feels rather slow by merit of trying to remember on and kun readings (I'll probably just learn the onyomi or just the meaning from here on).

I don't feel like writing will be of use to me and I'm starting to note the stroke order trends, so I might save my arm the near carpal tunnel and stop writing em soon.

Haven't started vocab yet but will soon. I'm little more than half through tae kim and adding vocab is just too much time rn.

>> No.18267656

>>18267651
should clarify I'm just remembering the first on and kun reading and prioritizing on

>> No.18267657

>>18267646
the most efficient way to deal with backlogs is dropping anki altogether

>> No.18267687

>>18267651
Memorizing the on reading in isolation is silly enough, memorizing the kun reading in isolation is full retard. You're just learning half a word.

>> No.18267692

>>18267651
I've never done KKLC but doesn't the book say not to memorize readings?

>> No.18267701

>>18267657
so you failed at using anki and now you want other people do drop it as well?

>> No.18267737

>>18267701
i graduated from anki
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFtcLJVN8yg
t. ankidrones

>> No.18267763

>>18267737
If you graduated why would you tell others to drop it? Or its it just shitposting?

>> No.18267772
File: 52 KB, 500x500, C8bL7cOUMAEHzR5.jpg orig.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18267772

>>18267687
figured

>>18267692
Kinda. He recommends learning one of the words it forms rather than a reading. The anki deck on the other hand includes a "main onyomi" line, so that probably made the notion too tempting.

That said from here on I'll probably just learn meanings and the couple of vocab words that go with em. Fwiw does anyone know what a good pace for learning kanji is?

>> No.18267795

>>18267154
>>18267190
Thanks for the encouragement.


>>18267141
I just got to the bit where the MMORPG ends and the isekai begins, and all of a sudden the difficulty level seems to have dropped massively. I've read 5 pages since the isekai began and I don't think I've struggled with a sentence yet.

I wonder what was throwing me off so badly before. It almost feels like I'm not even reading the same material anymore.

>> No.18267806

>>18267772
I have no idea what a "main onyomi" is but the author of the deck states that it's a departure from the format of KKLC

don't add stupid mods to a complete program and then call it a beginner trap when it crashes

>> No.18267885
File: 239 KB, 768x768, 1511651873143.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18267885

>>18256697
>Mr. Reading

>> No.18268053

I've never been confident with English grammar. When will I give up on learning Japanese?

>> No.18268058

>>18268053
お前はもう諦めている

>> No.18268063

>mine words
>they show up the literal next day on core, every day

was reading before completing 6k a meme?

>> No.18268068

>>18268063
You could've checked before adding them, you know

>> No.18268153

>>18268063
believing there's any significant long-term difference between doing one before the other is a meme

>> No.18268176

>>18266719
http://wiki.wareya.moe/Making%20stats

>> No.18268195

>>18263406
you're not anywhere near "advanced" if you're living in japan and still want to practice on recordings of tanaka-san and smith-san talking about the weather

>> No.18268196

>>18267687
kklc doesn't teach readings in isolation

>>18267651
>>18267772
use the book, make your own deck, don't spend too much time on it. kanji study is auxiliary.

>> No.18268242

>>18265996
It's mostly names

>> No.18268249
File: 237 KB, 1280x960, raionkingu.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18268249

>>18268242
What the fuck is up with Japanese names anyway? Is this common or is it low class like La-a and Kristel in the west?

>> No.18268253

>>18263424
I've always mixed them and I've gotten no value

the reason I've mixed them is because I don't want any indication of THIS IS A NEW CARD in my reviews, but in practice the new cards are recognizable no matter where they appear

I doubt it matters

>> No.18268254

>>18268249
>犬郎
kek

>> No.18268265

>>18251998
only 98k to go before you're at a first grade level

>> No.18268307

>>18268249
I talked about this with a Japanese friend recently and he said that it's low-class, but worryingly common.

>> No.18268309
File: 62 KB, 599x555, 1511814929447.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18268309

>>18268249
tfw have to write my name with katakana

>> No.18268313

>>18268249
I wonder what kind of ebonicized nip names the nigerians have

>> No.18268314

>>18268309
The kanji spelling of my name I picked for myself is 愚乱都

>> No.18268315

>>18268309
当て字では無理の?

>> No.18268319

>>18268314
You're a Grant too? Just use katakana, that's a retarded name.

>> No.18268323

>>18268319
I know, but it's hilarious as a joke

>> No.18268327

>>18268319
>>18268314
How does that even work? You just choose words that have the same sounds as katakana and that's how you write your name?
So I could be 根三 or something?

>> No.18268329

>>18268314
なんで?自虐?

>> No.18268334

>tfw literally Japanese name even though i'm not Japanese

heh nothing personnel anglos
t. Finn

>> No.18268337

>>18268249
>星の王子様
>心/はあと
>箱女/ぱんどら
>にゃあ
>銀河
Is this just the students fucking around? Maybe bullying? This can't be real, right?

>> No.18268341

>>18268319
Also yeah, that's my name
>>18268327
There are certain kanji that are more commonly accepted for use in names, so it would be best to pick kanji you've seen in Japanese names. It's not unheard of for foreigners that work in Japan to make a Kanji name so that they can have a more distinct 判子

>> No.18268351

>>18268341
>could write my name with just this kanji 富
>tfw I'm poor

>> No.18268353

In the cornucopia of resources a lot of those "misc" files would be better labeled under the culture section

>> No.18268357

>>18268337
It's a joke. There are names like that, though not as outrageous.

>> No.18268358

>>18268337
You missed 虎王【らいおんきんぐ】 which has interesting kanji choice as well.

>> No.18268360

>>18268351
自閉症に富む

>> No.18268365

>>18268195
>assume im requesting such low level files
>when i specifically ask for advanced material
ok dude

>> No.18268368

>>18268195
>>18268365
honestly maybe you should focus on english before japanese

>> No.18268379

>>18268365
>>18268368
anything "tailed" for students is low level material

>> No.18268384

Welp, time to sleep so I can get up at 6 and do my reps. Night, DJT.

>> No.18268405

>>18268309
>>18268315
あたしがちゅうにな

かんじをあてます

あててんのよ

>> No.18268409

>梅田であそぼう

Does this have connotations I'm not aware of? Does she literally mean play, or does she wanna fug?

>> No.18268430

>>18268409
they always want to fug so probably

>> No.18268433

>>18268409
>Umeda is a major commercial and business district in Kita-ku, Osaka

doesn't sound like it

>> No.18268436

>tfw passed 1000 kanji today

third of the way there, and almost halfway to basic reading ability!

feels good man

>> No.18268439

>>18268433
>not wanting to fuck a business district
Fucking normies

>> No.18268457

>>18268436
reading is possible at 500 kanji with the right tools and you're still going to need a dictionary at 3000 kanji

unassisted reading is a nice goal but it's overrated

>> No.18268460

>>18268433

Have you been to Umeda? Its full of bars and izakayas. Most of my dates have been there.

>> No.18268475

Came across

頼りなげ(な)
Apparently same as 頼りなさそう(な)

Can't find too much info on this sort of change/conjugation. Is replacing an い with げ a common thing?

>> No.18268478

>>18268379
All kanji books and test preparation including N1 and BJT are just low level "talking about the weather" shit. Ok dude lol.

>> No.18268486

>>18268475
>Is replacing an い with げ a common thing?
Exceedingly

>> No.18268487

>>18268478
what the fuck is a "kanji book"?

am I being trolled?

>> No.18268495

>>18268475
it's 気(け)and it functions as a suffix, so it's pretty common

also see 目(め), as that gets asked about a lot

>> No.18268502

>>18268457
Oh I'm not just learning them in isolation, I'm just keeping track with kanjigrid of how many I have seen in Core and my mining deck.

I'm fully aware that it's going to take the better part of a decade and some more to build vocabulary to a respectable level, but I suppose it would still be nice to get most kanji out of the way first.

>> No.18268511

>>18268478
>All kanji books
yes
>test preparation
not real japanese
>including N1 and BJT
to pass these without intentionally studying them you merely need to know japanese. not a hard bar to pass.

>> No.18268524

>>18268511
where can I take this blowjob test

>> No.18268533

としきのうが

まひしてるみたい

ゆきで

とうきょうね

>> No.18268540

>>18268524
ur moms room

>> No.18268545

>>18267763
>if you graduated why would you tell others to drop it?
>shitposting?
so sad that you think he's shitposting because it's actually the sickest redpill
it's not that anki doesn't help. but reading helps more; minute for minute.
1 hour of reading >>>>>>> 1 hour of ankidroning
we who have been ankidrones are telling you this, that should tell you something.
i would say be an ankidrone for core2k and after that just uninstall the shit

>> No.18268549

>>18268545
>it's actually the sickest redpill
ここで読むのやめた

>> No.18268564

>>18268545
Don't bother. Ankidrones are no better than junkies. They're not going to quit their daily illusionary progress fix just because some anon tells them otherwise

>> No.18268568

>>18268549
>ignores the message
>can't even shitpost in proper japanese
my man there's nothing else for you to do, but...

>> No.18268570

>>18268545
>>18268564
So the guide is wrong?

>> No.18268576

>>18268545
>after i stopped doing 100% anki i made more progress so everyone should quit it entirely
Have you considered that it's not all or nothing? Just because you were an ankidrone doesn't mean that everyone who uses anki is an ankidrone.

>> No.18268581

>>18268570
>Anki is a flashcard program that helps you acquire vocabulary through spaced repetition. It is commonly used in conjunction with the Core2K/6K vocabulary deck by beginners to build up a basic vocabulary of common words in preparation for reading. Many people stop the Core2K/6K deck after reaching 2000 words
Actually it looks like the guide agrees with him.

>> No.18268582

>>18268570
The guide is a guide, not an unbreakable path, do what works for you. For some people anki helps, for some it doesnt

>> No.18268586

>>18268581
Stopping the core deck doesn't require stopping anki, but if you don't stop the core deck you're probably droning.

>> No.18268593

Redpill me on why I should and why I shouldn't quit Core6k

Core6k: 2024 words
Mining deck: 248 words

>> No.18268600

Is mining ankidroning?

>> No.18268604
File: 93 KB, 772x525, 1499110025318.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18268604

>>18268593
You should quit core6k because you cant learn japanese

>> No.18268608

>>18268593
You're mining, you should know if it's worth continuing core or not at this point.

>>18268600
No, because it by definition requires you to be reading, unless what you're doing is not actually mining. Ankidroning is nothing but anki.

>> No.18268615

>>18268608
>Ankidroning is nothing but anki.
So what the fuck is this "graduation" and "dropping" business then?

Would redpill-sensei agree that mining should be stopped too?

>> No.18268633

>>18268615
Those guys didn't seem to have the same definition of ankidroning as >>18268608 does
For them it appears any form of the program qualifies you and they're desperately trying to 'save' you from it.

>> No.18268634

>>18268615
From what I've understood, the basic argument by droppers is that you mine words from things you read. If you learn vocabulary from Core and not by reading, you're probably not reading enough, just doing your daily reps i.e. ankidroning.

>>18268608
I think Core is still showing useful words so I really don't know.

>> No.18268647

さむいさむい

なにこのさむさ

だんぼうないんだけど

>> No.18268653

>>18268647
そのまま凍死白

>> No.18268658

>>18268593
You can do 6k if you want to. Even 10k is fine; the vocabulary remains incredibly common stuff. Ask yourself how long you want to keep doing Anki, though. Personally I dropped it after 10k and couldn't be happier. Studying becomes much less of a chore when you don't have to drudge through an hour or whatever of flash cards each day. The daily routine was nice, however.

>> No.18268698

>>18268615
People like redpill-sensei ankidroned through 3k+ words of core and reading was still hard, then they got mad and dropped it entirely and started taking reading seriously and went "woah I'm actually getting better at reading now, anki is shit, I need to spread the good word".

For most people, anki still helps you get new words down faster, but you should not let it keep you from reading under some misguided expectation that if you get to 6k or 10k words you'll skip the difficult phase of reading and be able to pick your first novel with ease. As an aside, people generally have higher retention with mined words than word lists like core.

In less words, anki is not for learning, it is for memorization. It should be used to augment learning, not replace it.

>> No.18268707

あした

こおるかもしれない

しもばしらできるかも

>> No.18268717

>>18268658
I wouldn't know since I'm only at 2200 words or so but I'd imagine and hope that I'll be fine quitting Anki after 10-15k words or something, when I know enough kanji and words to acquire vocabulary just by hearing or seeing them a few times, like I'd do with new English words.
I hope I'm not too naive.

>> No.18268723

>>18268707
重ね着の予定する
そして、いっぱい辛いたべもの

>> No.18268727

>>18268723
わさびならあります

>> No.18268731

Is getting physical Japanese native books worth the candle? The book cannot be obtained/simply doesn't exist in some 'soft' format I just wonder since it's so much more hassle to check shit up with traditional means as opposed to checking it up on your PC.

It may certainly work as a motivational tool but I just wonder, what's your experience?

>> No.18268767

>>18268731
Moving between a physical book and jisho.org is quite the hassle. I would not recommend it if you're going to read something close to your current level.

>> No.18268811

れいぞうこのわさび

ニセモノです
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsilMuEze-E

>> No.18268813

>>18268731
>It may certainly work as a motivational tool
I don't see where you're coming from with this, it's demotivating/annoying as fuck having to put the damn thing down every 30 seconds like >>18268767 describes, way more annoying than tabbing out a window

but I still prefer physical books out of sheer autism because it feels nice in my hands and I like staring at 挿絵 LN art without a screen

>> No.18268861
File: 120 KB, 400x400, 1406579778239.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18268861

>pro/anti anki strawman argument #99999999
>pro/anti kanji strawman argument #99999999
There is no pit deep enough to throw you faggots into.

>> No.18268865
File: 162 KB, 400x400, w.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18268865

Why are you studying Japanese?
When did you start?
What is your current level?
How much/often do you study?
What sort of study do you do daily/weekly?
How much progress do you feel you've made in the past year?

>> No.18268869

>>18268861
These threads are full of the most self-important, condescending, pseudo-intellectual faggots on Earth
Surpirse.

>> No.18268880

>>18268865
to read VNs
a few years ago
bad
none
none
none

>> No.18268882

>>18268865
>Why are you studying Japanese?
Autism
>When did you start?
Four years ago
>What is your current level?
Post-N1
>How much/often do you study?
Lately maybe 2 hours a day
>What sort of study do you do daily/weekly?
I just read
>How much progress do you feel you've made in the past year?
I've probably lost progress if anything, since passing N1 last december

>> No.18268886

>>18268475
>頼りなげ(な)

それを言うなら「頼りなさげ」でしょう

>> No.18268890

>>18268861
>>18268869
The important thing is you've found a way to feel superior

>> No.18268909

ひこうき

とまった

しんかんせんも

とまったかも

もうだめかもしれないぞい

>> No.18268918

>>18268909
レディットへ戻りなさい

>> No.18268923

>>18268886
自信なげ、所在なげっていうしどっちでもいいんじゃないの?

>> No.18268962

>>18268886
>>18268475
たよりなげ vs たよりなさげ
is not yet settled.
when げ or そう appears after い-adjective,
い is removed with the exceptions よい, ない
e.g. たのしい→たのしげ、たのしそう
 たのもしい→たのもしげ、たのもしそう
 よい→よさげ、よさそう
 ない→なさげ、なさそう
if たよりない is seen as 「たより」+「ない」, たより+なげ is better, but seen as one word「たよりない」, たよりなさげ is better.

>> No.18268966

>>18268923
調べたら「頼りなげ」は正しい表現でした。
ごめんなさい

>> No.18268971

>>18268962
wrote it wrongly
>if たよりない is seen as 「たより」+「ない」, >たよりなさげ is better, but seen as one >word「たよりない」, たよりなげ is better.

>> No.18269019

つまみ食いのはふさわしい罰が処刑ですね
いや、処刑もなにも、一族全然も一緒に首をたつ

>> No.18269083

>>18266923
anybody got a download link for this? please

>> No.18269284

>>18269083
http://b-ok.org/book/1181987/4cf512

>> No.18269324

Just had a quick question regarding 'drill' or 'drilling', as in a repetitive exercise for training. I can't seem to find a direct translation.

I'm aware the Japanese use ドリル in a modern sports context, but I would preferably find a native Japanese word.

Another word that has come up is 訓練, which can be used for 'drill', but is used more often for training or exercises.

The kind of specific drill I am referring to is the striking or throwing exercises in martial arts. You know, punching up and down the dojo and so on.

>> No.18269333

ドリルやる?

シールもつける?

>> No.18269374

>>18268698
>anki is not for learning, it is for memorization
You'd think the name would have tipped people off.

>> No.18269454

>>18268865
>Why are you studying Japanese?
Because I wish I were japanesw
>When did you start?
2 years ago
>What is your current level
I know all joyo kanji + a few hundred more but I can read only extremely slowly and painstakingly
>How much much/often do you study?
>What sort of study do you do daily/weekly?
Either nothing or I read random texts very slowly for several hours on end until giving up in exhaustion, usually leaving the text unfinished. Don't do anything else
>How much progress do you feel you've made in the past year?
I learned more kanji and grammar patterns. in terms of reading speed, none. I would give up but I keep believing I might not be terminally retarded

>> No.18269473

シールのないドリルなんて

ソイソースのないサシミみたいなもの

>> No.18269475

>>18268865
>Why are you studying Japanese?
It's fun and rewarding
>When did you start?
~2.5 years ago
>What is your current level?
~N2
>How much/often do you study?
Everyday. I generally slow down a bit after the JLPT though.
>What sort of study do you do daily/weekly?
Read
>How much progress do you feel you've made in the past year?
Pretty good progress. I can read without feeling exhausted easily now.

>> No.18269626

あっもう1月間経ってんか
留守の間でスレにおもろいことあってんかいな?
ほんで大変遅刻してんけど今年もよろしゅうで

>> No.18269631

>>18269083
>>18269284

It's in the cornucopia in the DJT guide as well.

>> No.18269672

>彘肩
>不羣
>愚騃
>餼羊
>蠧紙堆裏
>戕う
Nice words

>> No.18269815

>>18268698
I don't understand why anyone would ever want to do Anki without anything else. It's like, why are you even learning Japanese to begin with? I mean, most people learn this stuff because they want to be able to understand things in Japanese, not because they want to know thousands of words. I'd never have started learning this language if I had to learn thousands of words before I ought to open a book or comic.

Thankfully, the only thing you absolutely need to know before getting started with reading is kana and a bit of grammar, neither of which consume a huge amount of your time. After that you can just look up words as you come by them (either from furigana or using some kanji lookup plugin or a guide or whatever). It's very slow at first but it gets easier with every page.

Reading helps you get a feel for a language and its rules while Anki speeds up the memorization aspect, reducing the raw time investment necessary to build up your vocab. I honestly don't see why people are still arguing about this.

>> No.18269820

>>18269815
Anki is good as long as you study sentences from your reading materal, not bare bones words like most of this thread do.

>> No.18269821

>>18269672
aiming for 漢検1級?

>> No.18269824

>>18269815
>the only thing you absolutely need to know before getting started with reading is kana and a bit of grammar
factually false
>neither of which consume a huge amount of your time
grammar takes the longest time out of everything in learning a language

You're an actual retard

>> No.18269825

>>18269815
there was someone earlier who said they don't have time for reading due to other commitments and I can sort of see that happening

sounded kind of like an excuse though

>> No.18269828

>>18269820
>clozefags
this is what you will sound like in 10 years https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZ2_O9PlKTo

>> No.18269835

>>18269828
anime kara taxan manankedo

>> No.18269842

Can't believe people actually ONLY use Anki. Really? I can't even think what the thought process of that is... it's a supplement/memorization aid.

>> No.18269843

C2k has 毎年 listed both as まいねん and まいとし 

They both mean the same thing, right? Which is the preferred version of 毎年 ?

>> No.18269849

>>18269843
google it

>> No.18269865 [DELETED] 

Why are you studying Japanese?
To talk to Japanese streamers/speedrunners better (my online community), and others online.
also manga
When did you start?
I tried in 2016 and gave up.
Tried early last year with Duolingo lel and didn't get anywhere.
Started for real a couple months ago.
What is your current level?
Absolute trash beginner; ~1k words
How much/often do you study?
What sort of study do you do daily/weekly?
A few hours a day. Anki -> reading. I probably need to go through TK/Sakubi again.
How much progress do you feel you've made in the past year?
It's nice to feel motivated to reach a (non-vidya-related) goal for longer than a month for once in my life.

>> No.18269873

>>18269824
>grammar takes the longest time out of everything in learning a language

You don't actually need to memorize all these grammatical rules and recite them by heart, you know, native speakers also don't. When I said 'learn grammar' I meant 'read a grammar guide and then start reading, looking things up afterwards if you don't get a sentence construct', which is also what's recommended in the sticky. That's also what I meant by 'getting a feeling for the language'. It's something you acquire over time, not something you learn before starting properly because as you say that takes immensely long.

>>18269825
I can get that of course, but if you don't have time to read and you don't see that improving anytime soon you probably shouldn't be learning a language. But obviously everyone has these busy periods sometimes where you might not be able to read for a few weeks/months.

>> No.18269874

>>18269821
No, those are words from one of the most popular novels in japan.

>> No.18269877

>>18269324
稽古

>> No.18269909

>>18269843
>>18269849
Better yet:
https://desuarchive.org/a/search/text/まいねん%20まいとし/

>> No.18269911

>>18269843
>They both mean the same thing, right?
completely same
>Which is the preferred version of 毎年 ?
i usually pronounce it as まいとし
まいねん sounds a little bit formal

>> No.18269928

>>18269874
i needed a lot of notes to read "I am a cat".

>> No.18269973

>>18268865
>Why are you studying Japanese?
To talk to other streamers/speedrunners who are Japanese more easily, and others online.
also manga
>When did you start?
I tried in 2016 and gave up.
Tried early last year with Duolingo lel and didn't get anywhere.
Started seriously a couple months ago.
>What is your current level?
Absolute trash beginner; ~1k words
>How much/often do you study?
>What sort of study do you do daily/weekly?
A few hours a day. Anki -> reading. I probably need to go through TK/Sakubi again.
>How much progress do you feel you've made in the past year?
It's nice to feel motivated to reach a (non-vidya-related) goal for longer than a month for once in my life.

>> No.18269989

>>18269928
It's not very hard to read but it's a good example that illustrates that you can come across practically any kanji even in literature for masses much less elitists shit like 永井荷風

>> No.18269999

>>18268865

>Why are you studying Japanese?
Talk to friends and business partners in the future.
>When did you start?
September 3rd.
>What is your current level?
No idea, I can read most of Flying Witch and Yosuba decently well. Compound sentences and more obscure grammar causes me to instantly fall apart. I still run from long text blocks.
>How much/often do you study?
20-40 new words a day, a few pages of reading to reach those number of words, review. This takes hours because I procrastinate though.
>What sort of study do you do daily/weekly?
^
How much progress do you feel you've made in the past year?
Acceptable, but not good enough. I feel like I should be comfortable reading grammar by now but I still crawl through most sentences or give them multiple run-throughs and miss things a lot.

>> No.18270021

>>18268861

>> No.18270042

>>18268861
There is no argument because the ones against anki can't read without a dictionary or they use any other flashcard programm or even do hand-written cards which is worse therefore their opinion is nothing.

>> No.18270051

>>18269911
ありがとうお兄ちゃん

>> No.18270064

>何気ペアが多い2人です \(^ω^)/
It seems to me the sentence makes no sense without 何気 as it sounds like it's repeating itself. So I take 何気 is the key to understand it. But is 何気 just a shortened/slang form of 何気に or can it mean something else?

Not really asking for a translation. I'd just like to understand the use of 何気, since my research didn't yield anything conclusive.

For context, the writer is talking about two characters (possibly as a potential couple).

>> No.18270073

I've read that ちゃ is short for ては
Would that mean that "タカシは忘れちゃいけないヤツだった" has two は particles? Can't post the page because images are fucked

>> No.18270078

>>18270073
You can easily use two は in one sentence. This secon は isn't a topic marker, it's a part of ては structure.

>> No.18270095

>>18270064
>何気 is a shortened form of 何気に
i think your guess is correct.
≒「意外と、実は」

>> No.18270118

>>18266499
Takoboto is a really good dictionary app. I use it pretty often. The search bar is very flexible and will give you results whether you type in English, in Japanese or with a hiragana keyboard and it even has a kanji search function where you combine radicals and search based on which kanji have your selected radicals.

Aside from that, Ankidroid is nice.

>>18266620
Don't be. I was like you at first but just read the guide. Make an account, install your decks on the desktop version and then just sync your app, nothing complicated required.

>> No.18270125

>>18270095
So
>Suprisingly/Actually, (this) pairing is two people.
?

That still doesn't make much sense to me, but I'll live with it.

>> No.18270127

>>18266577
He's just named Satoshi after the creator of Pokemon, Satoshi Tajiri

>> No.18270155

>>18270125
I'm not sure the context but,
何気ペアが多い2人です
-> なにげに、ペア(になること)が多い2人です
「[AさんとBさんは]ペアになることが意外と多いんですよ\(^ω^)/」
dose this make sense?

>> No.18270175

>>18269820
>Anki is good as long as you study sentences from your reading materal
This is literally 100% a waste of time. Don't do this.

>> No.18270181

>>18269824
>factually false
You're right, you don't need the kana or grammar either. You can start reading from zero.

>grammar takes the longest time out of everything in learning a language
Grammar is also by far the easiest part of it.

>You're an actual retard
You're the retard.

>> No.18270183

>>18270078
It's also completely fine to have two topics if they have different relationships to the verb.

>> No.18270188

>>18270155
That makes a lot more sense! I think that could be the feeling of the sentence, especially since \(^ω^)/ implies it's meant to be a good thing.

ほんと に ありがとう! 助かったな

>> No.18270195

~arguing on the internet is like running in teh special olympics. even if u win ur still retarded~

>> No.18270204

>>18270195
liked, commented and subscribed

>> No.18270207

>>18270195
wow did you invent that yourself??

>> No.18270213

i was just gona up the pic but image upload seems busted for epic fail lol

did you fuckers learn nihongo yet

>> No.18270217

https://imgur.com/a/RT8j7

>> No.18270225

>>18270181
Just wondering, how would reading work if one doesnt know any grammar at all?

>> No.18270228

>>18270181
>grammar is easier than memorizing kanji
Sure if you're a brainlet and only read yuri visual novels written for 13-year-olds and have no plans to actually learn Japanese and understand unsubbed bangumi

>> No.18270229

>>18270188
glad to hear that\(^ω^)/

>> No.18270230

>>18270228
\(^ω^)/

>> No.18270232

>>18270217
hehe dick hat

>> No.18270234

>>18270228
"Memorizing kanji" doesn't teach you anything about Japanese. Its apparent ease should tell you that. If it doesn't you're an idiot.

>> No.18270237

>>18270228
oh boy, it's another "live-action television is the pinnacle of difficulty" episode \(^ω^)/

>> No.18270244

やかましいぜコラヽ(`Д´)ノプンプン

>> No.18270246

People usually mean very different things by "grammar" so this argument is always a shitshow.

>> No.18270247

>>18270234
>Believing Benny when he says you shouldn't learn kanji

>>18270237
Anime only has brainlet vocab and they're all set in high schools anyway.
Obviously high-level texts are more difficult to understand than variety shows, but I chose bangumi because you can pause look up words and slog through it, which is something you can't do with live television.

>> No.18270249

>>18270247
You do know which board you are on right?

>> No.18270250

>>18270247
do every1 a favor mate and pause your posting lol because its a slog \(^ω^)/

>> No.18270251

>>18270247
>Believing Benny when he says you shouldn't learn kanji
Who's Benny?

>> No.18270263

>>18270247
does japanese use bangumi as a generic term for all TV shows or is saying "i watch channel" just as awkward in jap as it is in english

>> No.18270265

>>18270247
Why do you keep posting "bangumi"? It's just program, as in a TV program. They air anime on TV, you know, right?
Is this meme I'm unaware of?

>> No.18270266

>>18270263
bangumi means "programme"

>> No.18270268

>>18270263
wouldn't it be more like saying "i watch tv shows"?

>> No.18270271

>this program is brought to you by...
>この番組は…
It's not hard, folks. It's even literal.

>> No.18270273

>>18270266
>>18270268
i realized i dont know english, always thought programme was synonymous with channel due to old people

>> No.18270275

>actual japanese grad classes to start soon
I'm going to do it, DJT! Hopefully in a few years down the line I'll be able to work with professional translation of Japanese literature if I just stick to it and give it my best! The dream is actually real if you just work hard for it!

>> No.18270280

>>18270271
Grand sponsor Tokyo day OH Christmas!

>> No.18270281

>>18270263
theres only 2 types of telebi in nippon bangumi and dorama

>> No.18270282

>>18270251
Learn X language in 3 months guy, i.e. a total hack that memorizes a few dozen phrases and pretends to be fluent, he couldn't learn Japanese.

>>18270263
I always call variety shows bangumi because there was an autist on DJT that got a hissy fit every time someone said bangumi

>> No.18270283

For example, why something like 得る and 切る, etc as auxiliary verbs are called grammar but tons of others aren't? Obviously some of them are extremely rare. Why are あらかじめ, かつて and a lot of other ones are called grammar? For me they are just words that don't even have nuances in their usage. Is every word grammar? The list could go on and on.
>>18270246

>> No.18270288

>>18270283
Idiomatic patterns are basically their own language features. They're considered grammatical when they're regular-productive, like the 得る/切る patterns, and they're considered lexical when they're fixed phrases.

>> No.18270293

>>18270282
>I always call variety shows bangumi because there was an autist on DJT that got a hissy fit every time someone said bangumi

lol you show em benny show em ur autismo fantastico

>> No.18270303

>>18270293
Can't fuck a pig without rolling in shit.

>> No.18270317

>>18270303
maybe just dont fuck pigs dude

>> No.18270330

>>18270288
I'm not talking about fixed phrases, rather ones that can be attached practically to any verb the same way but they are still kind of rare, like おおせる. And why most of the books\guides\etc teach you きれる like it's its own grammatical point when it's literally just a potential form of きる that preserves its original meaning plus
a nuance of potentiality?

>> No.18270334

>>18270330
Idiomatic patterns don't have to be fixed phrases. That's what my post is trying to say.

>> No.18270403

With the Core decks, what is the recommended way to go about studying them? Read the reading of the word out loud and note them down everytime? I only try and think about the reading and meaning, and I feel it is inefficient. What do?

>> No.18270449

>>18268615
>Would redpill-sensei agree that mining should be stopped too?
Yes, actually. Stop wasting time with mining. All it does is punish you for spending time reading.
The more you read, the more words you mine, the more reps you have.
Then you start asking
>Should I add this word to my deck?
What if you just said no, every time?

>>18268698
>all that conjecture

>> No.18270460

you can spend time learning kanji

or you can spend time learning japanese and you learn the kanji as a byproduct

guess which one djt picks lol

>> No.18270469

>>18270460
>>18270449
>lol just learn some #2974 frequency kanji that's only used in one word and that even native speakers see once a month or less by looking it up once

>> No.18270475

>>18270469
if you know japanese yeah that's what you do
if you don't you shouldn't be spending time learning #2974 frequency kanji

>> No.18270479

>>18270475
yea well what if it happened to show up in my fucking manga?

>> No.18270481

>>18270479
if it keeps showing up then you'll learn it by exposure
if it doesn't then it doesn't matter

>> No.18270500

>>18270481
>if it keeps showing up then you'll learn it by exposure
Did you already learn by exposure what の mean at the end of the sentence or difference between が and は?

>> No.18270501

>>18270500
yes

>> No.18270505

>>18270500
Exposure is basically the only way to actually learn those things. Any explanations you read are wrong or hopelessly abstract.

>> No.18270542

>>18270505
if you learn those by exposure you are either native and had it handed to you naturally or retarded and choose to spend years to achieve what others achieve in months max

>> No.18270546

Not using Anki will make you the dictionary's bitch for several extra years. I read at least 4 hours a day consistently and Anki was still critical to achieving the ability to read without a dictionary. There are three types of people who will tell you not to do Anki: (a) actual beginners who don't know what they're getting into, (b) perma-beginners who are content with the way of the texthooker, and (c) advanced learners who spent half a decade chained to a dictionary and want you to follow in their footsteps for some perverse reason.

Alternatively, (d) people whose experience was entirely different from mine. I haven't seen any verifiable examples of this though.

>> No.18270547

>>18270542
Neither of those cases are true.

>> No.18270561

>>18270547
every single time one of you retards are asked to explain how x is wrong explanation you guys shut up, so please do enlighten us all on why we should spend years figuring out what something means by pure context instead of just reading a general grasp of it to learn first and build upon in a shorter period of time

>> No.18270563

>>18270561
Whenever I explain basics I get yelled at by beginners who are upset that my explanation differs from what their incorrect entry-level college textbooks say, so I gave up.

>> No.18270568

>>18270563
dont make a counterclaim if you arent going to back it up

>> No.18270572

>>18270568
This isn't a formal debate, dude. This topic is, like, way below me. I'm just telling you what's going on. It's your choice whether you accept it or not.

>> No.18270578

>>18270572
formal debate rules != giving people any reason to listen to you

no one here wants to listen or will listen to some holier than thou dude who doesnt even substantiate his claims, no one wants to spend wasted time "trying" the vague abstract ideas of someone who probably doesnt even remember what it was like being a beginner. So why make a counterclaim in the first place if you dont care

>> No.18270580

>>18270501
>>18270505
So you can give yourself a clear explanation on how it's used? What's about the difference between に and で when used to show a location? Did you learn it without opening a grammar book? I feel very stupid because I had read a lot of japanese VNs and books and I was perplexed by how many times I found out that what I thought I was reading right for a long time was a completely off sometimes when I checked a japanese dictionary afterwards.

>> No.18270594

>>18270282
>I always call variety shows bangumi because there was an autist on DJT that got a hissy fit every time someone said bangumi
It's probably the same guy who gets triggered by people saying "dorama" so make sure to use that whenever you can too.

>> No.18270608

>>18270580
One of those posts is not me, anon.

の at the end of a declaration emphasizes the declarative nature of the statement. It's not being said as a mere observation, it's being said for a reason. There's a greater intention than merely providing someone with information, the statement is part of a longer-lasting exchange of informational "combat". With questions it serves much the same purpose but is used for questions instead of declarations.

は and が are not comparable and do not share overlapping functions. The subject is just used as a topic when it's, literally, already the topic of conversation, rather than a new topic yet to be introduced, or when using it as the topic has a contrastive function relative to other possible topics, for example identifying that a particular topic is the one that a statement is true for, even if it has not yet been introduced.

に and で for location aren't similar at all. If you're confused about them being used for location it's because you haven't read anywhere near enough. When which particle is used isn't defined by the noun being marked or verb taking it as an argument, に is used for locations that are part of a particular statement about an action, and で is used for locations with which that action occurs or is relevant. In other words, に identifies a location, で specifies a location. で isn't a location particle, marking location is just one of the functions it has as a particle that indicates the situation for which a statement is relevant or true, or the situation with which statement situation being described is associated, when that situation is a location.

>> No.18270629

and the circle is repeated 永遠に

>> No.18270643

>>18270608
this was good insight, thank you

much of this is just a bit more detail on the things ive read however from grammar in a matter of months, a little bit of reading to supplement it helped to reach this sort of understanding fairly fast.

>> No.18270645

If I read every grammar book / guide will I eventually memorize all the grammar

>> No.18270648

>>18270645
According to the fact that that's what Sakubi did and it's still not perfect, no.

>> No.18270656

can I read manga in japanese online somewhere without having to download it?
sorry if its a dumb question

>> No.18270661

>>18270608
I didn't really ask to list answers on the topic but rather appeal to being honest with yourself.
>に and で for location aren't similar at all.
Well, https://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/jn/166083/meaning/m0u/に/ and https://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/jn/148951/meaning/m0u/で/ give you exactly the same explanation
on this subject (as 1). For how long should I read to understand nuances because 20 and VNs combined and 20k words in my anki deck isn't really enough for me to know japanese at all even if it's something that I encounter 500 times a day.

>> No.18270675

>>18270661
Bear in mind that several of the functions of に and で are different than their case-like functions, and they have different etymological origins. One of the functions of of に is about location and the other is related to だ (the one related to だ is the one you see in ~になる). One of the functions about で is about means/situation and the other is also related to だ (the で in である, but also in a lot of other "situation" marking meanings of it).

>> No.18270684

Don't do your reps, Anki sucks.

>> No.18270698

>>18270656
to use the internet is to down load ?

>> No.18270704

>>18270661
>What's about the difference between に and で when used to show a location? Did you learn it without opening a grammar book?
Yes.

>I feel very stupid because I had read a lot of japanese VNs and books and I was perplexed by how many times I found out that what I thought I was reading right for a long time was a completely off sometimes when I checked a japanese dictionary afterwards.
>For how long should I read to understand nuances because 20 and VNs combined and 20k words in my anki deck isn't really enough for me to know japanese at all even if it's something that I encounter 500 times a day.
Once you read enough, very common low level intuitive things like this take time, not extra examples. More time reading is always better, but more time reading doesn't help with everything, it just increases the number of things you're learning efficiently.

I have no idea how many years you've been studying for, but if it's been many, and you're being honest about how much you've read so far, there's something wrong with your reading habits that you haven't mentioned. It's not really possible to study for multiple years and read 20 VNs and still have trouble with understanding the most common particles, unless you have weird reading habits that are getting in the way of acquisition.

Do you read with voice acting off? Do you only read text with no audio? Do you skim over sentences as lists of words without internalizing anything other than which words you know? Do you labor over individual words instead of internalizing what's being conveyed? Do you quit reading whenever you reach your mining quota for the day? Do you exclusively read wish fulfillment stories with overly characterized dialogue and overly simplistic narration? Do you read a lot for a few days then take a long break?

>> No.18270713

>>18270698
I meant hosting sites like kissmanga but not translated manga. I didnt find anything useful googeling.
Its okay tho, I will just go with downloading after all.
I

>> No.18270794

>>18270704
>It's not really possible to study for multiple years and read 20 VNs and still have trouble with understanding the most common particles, unless you have weird reading habits that are getting in the way of acquisition.
It's interesting what you mean by understanding. I'm only talking about one of the difference of に and で in one case (showing a location when something is happening) and as I wrote above even the dictionary isn't clear at all about it (then why should I?). The other question are rather illustrations of what other people who think they can everything by insight fail to answer even though they see examples every day for many times. >Do you read with voice acting off? Do you only read text with no audio? Do you skim over sentences as lists of words without internalizing anything other than which words you know? Do you labor over individual words instead of internalizing what's being conveyed? Do you quit reading whenever you reach your mining quota for the day? Do you exclusively read wish fulfillment stories with overly characterized dialogue and overly simplistic narration? Do you read a lot for a few days then take a long break? Too many questions that I think aren't related. I read every day for a long time and my reading on parts when I know all the words is comparable to my reading speed when I read something in my native language.I'm trying to read something above my level so I always have words to mine. However, I only use japanese for reading so my production is on zero level.

>> No.18270817

>>18250154
〜このスレに来てみてaidsをぜひ体感してみてくだっさい〜

>> No.18270837

>>18270656
Not that I'm aware of. The Japanese piracy scene (and internet in general) is woeful. I don't know why it is, but the Japanese are decades behind Europe/North America when it come to anything digital.

>> No.18270853

やっと分かったよー
裸になればいいんだー
>I finally understand. I need to get naked.

i dont get why the eba form is translated as need to. for me this looks like
>its ok the be naked.

>> No.18270864

>>18270853
>if I get naked, it's good (it's not good to not be naked)

>> No.18270868

>>18270853
to me it looks like "i just gotta get naked"

>> No.18270869

>due tomorrow: 120
Is there a way to study today part of what I'll need to study tomorrow?
Anki is sucking me dry everyday, I need a better pace.

>> No.18270902

>>18270869
yes

deck > custom study > review ahead

>> No.18270914

>>18270869
>due tomorrow: 120
That shouldn't take you more than 20 minutes.

>> No.18270924

>>18270460
I'm grammatically retarded so although I'm trying to learn Japanese the only thing I reliably acquire by exposure is kanji. Everything is possible.

>> No.18270945

>>18270914
nice bragging m8

you don't know anything about his deck or his studying method to be making those kinds of assumptions

>> No.18270954

>>18270945
u can safely infer that and he and his "deck" are fucking gay lol

>> No.18270990

>>18270656
There are sites like this
https://tonarinoyj.jp/

>> No.18271040

>>18270853
~ばいい is a special form. It can mean, "should, would be good if, can" depending on context. Check your favorite grammar reference for more information.

If you want to say "it's okay to be naked," you would probably say something like:
裸になってもいいんだ
This is the ~てもいい form. A literal translation of this would be, "It's okay even if you get naked."

Another one you will see sometimes is ~ばよかった which is, "would have been good if I had" or "should have (but didn't)."

>> No.18271095

おはようおにいちゃん

すいどう

こおってるかもしれない

>> No.18271153

>>18271095
おはようございます
温度は?雪降りそう?

>> No.18271157

>>18271153
ちょっとあかるくなってきた

しろくない

ふってない

>> No.18271168

>>18270837
Thats true, I noticed it. I will be buying manga from amazon.jp in the future, but I need to get better first and save up some money before I can do that.

>>18270990
thank you!

>> No.18271188

Hello. I'm doing Tae Kim's guide and today I finish the "Essential grammar" part, which ends with small exemples of dialogues and stuff like that.

I'm starting to feel a little bit unconfident, because I had to look up for almost everything I was reading. And I don't only mean the kanjis, but I couldn't remember much about the structures either...
It made me wonder; Is reading, once I start doing so with VNs/manga, going to feel like it? Will I need to look up for literally everything everytime or I'm not following as well as I should be? I'm asking because I can't really tell the difference between this and translation, since I'm basically translating everything individually and them building the meaning by it. I don't really feel like I'll learn much by doing so, am I wrong? Is that the way?

I hope I'm not being too pessimistic

>> No.18271205

>>18271188
Sounds to me like you are doing your best to improve, so thats good. And yeah, reading will be the same in the beginning. If you have to translate everything into english it is going to even slower. Eventually you reach a point where you dont have to translate into english anymore and can stay in japanese mode.
For stuff like おはよう it will be pretty fast, but longer and more complicated sentences will take longer.

>> No.18271253

>>18270869
What the fuck is your card layout and average time per card for 120 to be intimidating? You're probably doing something you shouldn't be.

>> No.18271256

>>18271205
Thanks, anon, I'm really doing my best to improve.
So it's alright to keep like this? Am I in the right way?
I don't really mind doing so as long as I improve

>> No.18271301

>>18271256
you will improve as long as youre constantly correcting yourself and building upon your knowledge and not giving up. tenacity is 90% of learning this language from what I've experienced so far.

and unlike many things, learning a language gets easier, not harder, its good to remember that as you go forward

>> No.18271330

>>18270945
>you don't know anything about his deck or his studying method to be making those kinds of assumptions
If his deck or studying methods are causing him to take longer than 20 minutes, they are bad.

>> No.18271381

>>18271330
So it's pointless to spend more than 20 minutes on Anki? I feel kind of bad spending more than this, actually. Yesterday I spent fucking 100 minutes trying to get rid of my backlog.

>> No.18271382

I need help trying to figure out a handwritten kanji but 4chan is shitting the bed. Anywhere I can upload images without creating an account?

>> No.18271396

>>18271382
https://mixtape.moe/

>> No.18271399

>>18271381
not pointless just unnecessarily time consuming

>> No.18271406

>>18271396
Thank you.

The Kanji in question: https://my.mixtape.moe/gwkbew.png

>> No.18271408

変わったこともなく、おだやかなこと。
What does the first half mean? Is it similar to "by nature"?

>> No.18271425

>>18271381
It's not exactly that it's "pointless", it's that you shouldn't need to do it in the first place with the level of reviews that that guy had.

Either he has needlessly overcomplicated his cards/review process or he is sitting around for ages on every card he forgets trying in vain to remember them instead of just failing them and moving on. If you can't remember a card after 10 seconds, it should be a fail.

>> No.18271444

>>18271330
probably but that's wasn't the point

and doing ~120 cards less than 20 minutes if those include new cards isn't going to happen unless forgo reading the example sentences

>> No.18271467

>>18271381
More than 20 minutes on anki isn't bad. More than 20 minutes on 120 cards is somewhat bad, depending on how much more. Posting about how much you aren't looking forward to it would indicate to me that it's at least 40 minutes or an hour on 120 cards, which is pretty bad. But that's just conjecture.

>>18271444
>reading the example sentences
Consider if your example sentences are worth slowing your reviews down beyond 10 seconds per card.

>> No.18271474

>>18271253
Core 2k/6k Optimized Japanese Vocabulary, the one I found in the CoR around 2 months ago.

As for the statistics, Anki says:
>Studied 262 cards in 76 minutes today.
>Again count: 99 (62.2% correct)
>Learn: 88, Review: 116, Relearn: 58, Filtered: 0
>Correct answers on mature cards: 5/5 (100.0%)
>Average answer time: 14.0s (4.3 cards/minute)
I click again whenever I forget/mix up the pronunciation or forget the meaning.
I do the cards after waking up and taking a shower.

>> No.18271529

>ダチにオレのやってるゲームをバカにされてさ

>ブン殴ってふて寝してたトコ。

Fucking what the hell is this second sentence trying to convey? The dude talking is making fun of someone for playing a video game after the music woke him up.

>> No.18271633

>>18271330
>>18271399
>>18271425
>>18271467

Since you're all talking about Anki and backlogs, I guess you can help me with something.
This is my case:

>kept doing anki and ignoring kanji because I always focused in vocabulary, thinking I was doing a great job for a newcomer
>see anons talking about why you shouldn't do so and should try to memorize kanji even being a beginner
>decide to do it as well, so suddenly stop doing the way I was used to
>had some health problems at the same time and had to ignore anki for a few days

The result was that my backlog increased. I found myself in the middle of more than 200 cards to review, and I decide to start doing it but now focusing also on the kanji. Apparently, the worst time to change my studying methods. I figure out I didn't know anything.
>can't stand doing 200 "reviews" since they're basically all new to me now, since I didn't care for the kanji in the past
>try to do at least a hundred
>from 100, at least 80 are now marked as "learning", since I chose again a lot of times on each one
>trying to memorize 80 words with kanji now, I spent more than an hour/an hour and a half doing so
>after finally getting them right, the only option was "good"
>good (1 day)

Yeah, now I'm here again and guess what? 250 FUCKING WORDS TO REVIEW. AGAIN. I limited the reviews to 120 only but the same shit is happening again, more than a half of this is being failed and I'll probably take ages again to "learn" it, just to finish choosing "good (1 day)" and tomorrow I'll have fucking 200+ again.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO, DID I LITERALLY SCREW MY ANKI? IS THIS BACKLOG GOING TO CHASE ME FOREVER? What should I do, /jp/? Is starting over a good option? It seems easier than dealing with this crap, since I totally changed the way I was studying and Anki doesn't seem to follow up very well.

>> No.18271637

>>18271467
cards aren't uniform in nature. Takes me far longer per card for kanji recognition, particularly new ones, than vocab

>> No.18271670

>>18271444
>example sentences
If we're talking about a mining deck, having sentences on your cards is a complete waste of time since you already saw the word you're learning in context when you mined it and will inevitably see it in context again and again through your daily reading.

Even on Core, unless we're talking about a definition using an English word with a potentially ambiguous meaning*, I'd still say example sentences are a waste of time.

*an example off the top of my head: a word defined as only "to draw" could potentially mean "draw" in the sense of either drawing a picture or drawing something out of something (e.g. a sword from a scabbard, water from a well, etc.), so in that case the example sentence might be useful in clarifying the meaning.

>> No.18271772

>>18271633
This is the problem when people get obsessed with Anki and start overcomplicating things. They just wind up fucking everything up and having to start over from scratch.

Keep it simple. Were you able to read the word within 10 seconds? Did you get the meaning right? If so, hit "hard" or "good". Otherwise, hit "again".

Pay attention to the kanji used to write the words in your deck, but don't "again" words that you remembered.

>> No.18271786

>>18271772
Yeah, I guess I'll have to do this now.
But I don't "again" words I remember, the problem is actually I never remember them now because I basically change all my studying method, so Anki is asking me stuff I wrongly told it I knew in the past.

I'll start over, I hope I do it right this time
Thanks for the reply, btw

>> No.18271845

>>18251462
I want to breed her with my white mongrel genes.

>> No.18271857

>>18251526
>>18251557
This, I finally understand は and が, and some other things grammar books are terrible at explaining after her video. Very good in my opinion.

She's probably a native Japanese speaker but she's speaking slowly for her audience, trying to sound cute, and probably a little airheaded/slow like most women

>> No.18271861

>go through 140 words in 25 minutes or something
>the last 20 words are all leeches and you fail each of them 3-5 times and it takes something like 40 minutes

>> No.18271919

>>18254438
5分間くらいかなw
勉強なんかめんどくさいしさぼっちゃう

>> No.18271920

>>18271861
Usually when I notice it's a word like that I just click 'hard' or 'good' after one or two tries because there's really no point in keeping at it. Probably better to be exposed to the word once every day or two than failing repeatedly and finally just getting it right by picking a random word from your short-term memory.

>> No.18271925

>>18261934
変な日本語

>> No.18271940

>>18268865
>Why are you studying Japanese?
アニメかな
もう覚えてないな
>When did you start?
2年前くらい
>What is your current level?
もう日本人になった
>How much/often do you study?
アンキ意外ほとんど勉強しない
でもラインの友達と毎日話してる
>What sort of study do you do daily/weekly?
アンキ
本も読む
>How much progress do you feel you've made in the past year?
リスニングをかなり上達させられたと思う

>> No.18272108

>>18271408
"nothing special"

>> No.18272114

三ツ星カラーズ

アニメどう?

まえひょうばん

さんざんだったけど

あたしはそんなにわるくないとおもう

>> No.18272134

>>18250154
Does anyone know the origin of this grammar dictionary?
www.geocities.jp/mashimaro_coffeejp/Grammar.pdf
or
https://a.uguu.se/TvqnUvZUKG0K_Grammar.pdf

The downloaded file is labelled Grammar.pdf and the pdf itself is called 日本語表現文型辞典.pdf inside Adobe. It doesn't have any authorship, instead a simple inside page with the title then a following page straight into the tablet of contents.

I was thinking it was a digital version of something like どんなときどう使う日本語表現文型辞典 with the cover and preface pages removed but using the preview version from Rakuten, the compared entries don't match at all. Skimming over it, this random grammar dictionary looks like a good J-J reference and it is text based, not scanned images.

私、気になります!

>> No.18272242

So in the core 6k pack, なかなか is put as 'not at all/hardly', but I encountered it reading when someone was saying 'なかなかおもしろい’ which was used to mean 'quite interesting'
Is the core 6k pack one wrong? Cause after checking it in a dictionary it's telling me that it should mean 'quite/fairly/easily'

>> No.18272248

>>18272242
It's a question of polarity. Look it up, Sakubi even has a section on it.

>> No.18272313
File: 37 KB, 272x172, struggle.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18272313

Can anyone give me a hand with this box?
I'm kinda stumped, I can't quite click what he's saying.
Something about 'wanting to see that over' and then 'to think you'd bring something like that to my autopsy lab, never in my life...'

Context: doctor giving an ayy lmao an autopsy

>> No.18272324

>数えきれぬ作品をこの世に残した親父

I'm confused about noun ending phrases, does that mean something like "left by my father" instead of "my father left" ?

>> No.18272347

>>18272313
>1匹

ここがちょっとぜんごによっていみかわるかもしれないなあとおもうよ

>一人

こっちならだいたいいみわかるんだけど

>>18272324
>親父は数えきれない作品をこの世に残した

これとおんなじだよ

>> No.18272361

>>18272347
漢字でもいい。
文法がたいへん。

>> No.18272366

>>18272347
>親父は数えきれない作品をこの世に残した

I understand it basically means the same but isn't there some nuance with noun ending phrases ?

>> No.18272379

>>18272324
"my father, who left ~~~"
this sentence has no verb.

>> No.18272427

>>18272313
if you'd bring something like that to my autopsy lab in large quantities(=ゴロゴロ adverb ), i'll be boxed up in my lab
一生~泊まりだ:permanently live in~

>> No.18272435

>>18272427
Thanks heaps, that makes a lot more sense.

The first section is still throwing me a loop but it's becoming more clear.

>> No.18272592

アラスカのあのん

高台へ!

走って!

>> No.18272628

>>18271529
>(ダチを)ブン殴って(俺は)ふて寝してたトコ(ところ)。

>> No.18272654

>>18272366
いみほとんどおなじ

親父が後ろに来る方がオサレ

>> No.18272692

は/が quiz
picked up randomly in ふたばちゃんねる https://www.2chan.net/

気象庁(JMA)によりますと、23日午前、群馬県(Gunma Pref)の北西部にある
草津白根山(Mt. Kusatsu-Shirane)で、煙(smoke) 【は/が】 上がっているという
通報(report) 【は/が】 あり、気象庁 【は/が】 噴火(eruption) 【は/が】 
起きたかどうか確認を急いでいます。

JAXAの金星探査機(missions to Venus)「あかつき」 【は/が】 
撮影した(shot)データをフランスの写真家(photographer) 【は/が】 
画像処理(image processing)して作られた、美しい金星の
画像 【は/が】 公開され(release)ている。

ビットコイン(Bit coin)などの仮想通貨(virtual currency)の価格(price) 【は/が】 
ここ1カ月で半分になったのを受け、米(USA)ニュースサイト、レディット(reddit) 【は/が】 、
大損した(lose a lot)ユーザー(user)のために自殺防止(suicide prevention)ホットラインを設置した。

ダービーさん 【は/が】 アイルランド(Ireland)のホテル「The White Moose Cafe」に送った
メール 【は/が】 、自身のYouTubeとInstagramを通じてホテルの宣伝に協力する(cooperate in promotion)ので、
無料で宿泊(free accommodation)させて欲しいという内容(contents)だった。
これに対し、ホテルのオーナー(owner) 【は/が】 激怒(in a rage)。
「親愛なるソーシャルメディアインフルエンサー様(Dear social media influencer)」と題した(entitled)
コメントとともに、彼女のメールの画面キャプチャ(screen capture)をFacebookに公開した。
オーナー 【は/が】 、「もしあなたを無料で泊めてしまったら、誰 【は/が】 人件費(labor cost)を
払うのでしょう?」と記した。

>> No.18272729

>>18272692
ががはが

ががは

がは

がはははが

>> No.18272756

>>18272692
ががはが

ががが

はは

がはははが

>> No.18272777

>>18272729
>>18272756
What are you guys laughing about?

>> No.18272784

>>18272777
we're choking

>> No.18272898

>>18272692
post the answers scum bag

>> No.18272970
File: 185 KB, 1505x2156, CCF_0158.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18272970

Panel 1: I think it says "Ageha is somewhere on board, though don't know where", but shouldn't it be どこか instead of どうか then?
Panel 3: considering the sentences following it, the first bubble must say "it's suspicious that there's no cameras" but I can't read it as anything but "there's no suspicious spots on cameras"

>> No.18273013

How long does it take to learn Japanese at a level where I can understand unsubbed anime if I invest at least 2 hours a day to learning?

>> No.18273021

>>18273013
Several years

>> No.18273022

>>18273013
at most 2 years
>>18272970
かどうか means "whether"
>panel 3
me neither. that's what it seems to say

>> No.18273211

>>18273022
>at most 2 years

Maybe if you only watch easy shit and have extremely low standards for what constitutes "understanding".

>> No.18273238

>>18273013
>at least 2 hours a day to learning?
depending on the anime
SOL, 2 years
shounen asspulling plot armor with a dash of QUALITY 3-4 years
advanced sci fi, lots of politick, or otherwise old tongue stuff 5+ years

>> No.18273296

>>18273238
>SOL, 2 years
>shounen asspulling plot armor with a dash of QUALITY 3-4 years
The other way around. SOL vocabulary is a lot more eclectic and less repetitive than your typical lengthy jump series.

>> No.18273299

>>18272692
が が は が
が が が
が は
が は は は が

>> No.18273310

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5d1kl0_dWEQ

is this true?

>> No.18273370

>>18273296
I think that's has more to do with the "comedy" aspect

I still don't know what SOL alone is supposed to mean

>> No.18273391

>>18273370
>I think that's has more to do with the "comedy" aspect
Puns, references, a high amount of once or twice only used words, etc.
Generally speaking, people who operate under the mindset that slice of life = easy, are those people who don't actually watch/read the sorts of series they are alluding to and are safe to ignore.

>> No.18273398

>>18272898

>> No.18273407

What do card options depend on? I've got different options for different words? 10 minutes and 4 days is a big range,

>> No.18273433

>>18273407
forgot, hard, medium, easy

>> No.18273437

>>18273407
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaced_repetition

read this and fuck off

>> No.18273451

>>18273370
>>18273391
As I understood it anon meant more like SoL = more 'useful' words.

>> No.18273458

>>18273407
you don't have to understand anki inside and out to use it at the beginning; just leave the default options alone and focus on answering accurately

>> No.18273545

So for people that can actually read now do you consider learning kanji by themselves is a waste of time? I'm using a wanikani deck that has a kanji and vocab part so I study both seperate. Thinking about dropping the kanji part and just doing vocab in kanji

>> No.18273557

>>18273545
Yeah it's a pretty big waste of time for everything outside of writing on paper. If you ever confuse anything you can always just look up those kanji specifically to see what the difference is, but beyond that it's not very difficult to just know by recognition only.

>> No.18273566

If I want to learn how to read VNs and nothing else, what should I be doing?

Not interested in speaking it or even understanding speech.

>> No.18273568

>>18273566
Start reading VNs. Do it until you can do it easily.

If it's too hard at the beginning do things to make it easier, like memorizing words or studying vocabulary, but it's technically not necessary to do that at all.

Get a texthooker and use it to look up words. Don't use parsers or machine translation.

>> No.18273574

>>18273557
I mean I'm not memorizing stoke order just the meaning and one or two readings depending

>> No.18273582

>>18273574
meaning + on-yomi is the only thing worth learning. kun-yomi is literally words so it's redundant.

>> No.18273591

>>18273568
>Start reading VNs
Right now, I'm at the part where japanese looks like a bunch of strange alien symbols.

>> No.18273595

>>18273591
Yeah, that feeling's not gonna go away until you start exposing yourself to it a lot. I memorized vocabulary for like three months without any exposure to real Japanese, not even example sentences, and no grammar study, and it basically didn't help at all.

>> No.18273611

>じゃない(か)

used to express

>negative
>positive
>exclamations
>questions

just why?

>> No.18273623

>Legacy captcha is no longer supported.
Fuck this. The "normal" captcha is cancer

>> No.18273652

>>18273545
I never did study kanji on their own, so all I can really say is that I did fine without it. I never had any issues with retention while doing core, and I did a lot of core.

>> No.18273684

If you've spent like 200 days learning Japanese, you should be able to watch anime unsubbed. You won't understand every single word depending on the series, but for stuff like Mitsuboshi Colors, you'll be reaching 90%+ comprehension. Do your best onii-chan

>> No.18273687

>>18273623
It's easier for touch screen monkeys to use. Desktops are now legacy devices.

>> No.18273693

>>18273623
The real reason is that captchas don't actually work anymore, so they have a captcha that blocks if you if it detects you're a robot in non-captcha ways, then asks you to help it verify the results of machine learning.

>> No.18273783
File: 2.40 MB, 1450x1046, 94fb757edf8.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18273783

日本語が出来るのは本当に不可能な事だ。
私はもう諦めたい、でも負けの感じも我慢してるわけがない。
助けってくださいDJT、私は落ち込んだ人なってしまった。

>> No.18273824

>>18273623
Oh fuck, you're right. This sucks.

Is this the reason why 4chan shit itself for several hours last night?

>> No.18273972

Hey there just noticed rikaisama broke down, haven't used it in a while.
Tried rikaichan instead but it doesn't recognize text in specific areas, for example this reply box I'm using, as rikaisama did. That's a necessary feature for me as I often paste text in my browser to analyze it with rikai.
Anyone with the same issue found a solution to this? Or do I have to switch browsers maybe?

>> No.18273978

>>18273972
Try rikaichamp.

>> No.18274032

>>18273978
Ah you're still the best /djt/.
Been coming here since 2012 and you still find the correct answer for me every time.
Thanks again.

>> No.18274230

>>18273972
>I often paste text in my browser to analyze it with rikai.
An alternative method for this is using those blank HTML pages intended for texthooking VNs linked in the resources guide along with the clipboard inserter add-on that they're intended to be used with.

Just open the blank page in your browser, copy whatever text you want to analyse to your clipboard, then toggle the clipboard inserter add-on on and it will paste the text from your clipboard onto the page.

>> No.18274466
File: 665 KB, 1035x956, isshukan4.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18274466

Can somebody help me with this? They're having some sort of quarrell but I don't even know who the fuck is talking to who or what they're saying in the 3d panel.
Also, who is させるing the other one in the second bubble of the 4th panel? Is she saying something along the lines of:
>Stop joking and making me misunderstand things?
Oh, Fujimiya Kaori is the girl that's sittings besides him.

>> No.18274484
File: 411 KB, 1928x1088, 1480459363862.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18274484

Hello, I'm a uni student interested in spending some time in japan. I'm currently a sophomore and wondering if exchange programs are worth it.
Or if transferring to a jap uni is an option for someone with a not so good gpa(I'm working on bringing it up).
Do you anons think holding out till I get a degree and just teaching might be the best option?

>> No.18274501

>>18274484
>sophomore
Sorry, I don't speak burger.

>> No.18274505

>>18274501
2nd year

>> No.18274571

>>18273972
>>18273978

Does anyone use Yomichan? I like it but I don't know if it's bugged or what, it's supposed to activate with SHIFT but it doesn't most of the time, sometimes it takes like 5 seconds or I have to press SHIFT repeatedly, sometimes instead of searching the word under the mouse it search the next word to the right...

>> No.18274577

>>18274571
I use it. Experiencing nothing like that. Use Chrome.

>> No.18274604
File: 21 KB, 282x358, 1511406698803.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18274604

>>18274571
do this

>> No.18274612

>>18274577
>Use Chrome.
If you're going to shill the botnet, at least tell him to use Chromium.

>> No.18274619

>>18274612
Do you perhaps use Windows as well?

>> No.18274629
File: 159 KB, 900x675, 1491194417186.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18274629

>>18274619
No.

>> No.18274637

>The question marker 「か」 is usually not used with casual speech to make actual questions. It is often used to consider whether something is true or not.

how is this not a paradox? considering whether something is true or not implies questioning

>> No.18274660

>>18274637
Who cares dude?

>> No.18274707

>>18274637
I found Tae Kim's explanations are often confusing, convoluted and contradictory like that. So long as you understand that か is like a verbal question mark but doesn't need to be used in order to form a question, just forget about that sentence and move on.

>> No.18274719

What are some VNs that use furigana?

>> No.18274732

>>18274604
Thanks it works now my dude.

>> No.18274748

>>18274466
To me it looks like only the third line is the guy.
Fourth panel is probably "don't get her (Fujimiya) hopes up".

>> No.18274813

>>18274719
There aren't any, but furigana is largely meaningless anyway thanks to the existence of texthookers (in the case of VNs) and OCR (in the case of manga and LNs).

>> No.18274817

>>18274748
What makes you think the girl is talking about fujimiya in the 4th panel, do you have any clue?
And in the third panel the guy would be saying:
>Ok, ok, let's leave at this (let's not talk about this anymore).
?

>> No.18274838

>>18274230
Hah that's great will be using that now.

>> No.18274842
File: 452 KB, 1366x768, Screenshot (105).png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18274842

I asked this in /int/ as well but I'd like to know what you guys think/

Before realizing she was a girl, a guy asked her to go to the bathroom with him. She asked what he intended to with her there after he realized she was a girl, to which he replied 「キジを撃ちに」. Then she responds with this page. What in the world are they talking about?

>> No.18274854

>>18274813
what texthooker and what ocr would you recommend

>> No.18274855

>>18274466
The two girls who came into the scene talk to him in the first two bubbles basically saying "ill take that joke, but don't get carried away" (as response to the question "are you jealous?) the third is the guy talking again "Alright then we will leave it at that", on the left side is "Fujimiya" wondering if it's okay if she's there.

>> No.18274866

>>18274855
I agree with you.
I think 冗談受ける means something like "Oh, that's so funny...", it seems to be a set expression.

The 4th panel still bugs me a lot though. I don't see any hints as to who she might me actually talking about

>> No.18274873

>>18274854
Everything you need to know should be covered in the resources guide. Check the live Google Docs version too since it has some differences from the neocities version in places and sometimes contains updated information which has yet to be merged into the neocities page.

>> No.18274893

>>18274842
花を掴みに行く and キジを撃ちに行く are slang for going to the toilet, for girls and boys respectively.

>> No.18274924

>>18274842
>>18274893
Sorry I meant 摘む not 掴む, don't know what happened there.

>> No.18274936

>>18274866
She's talking to the guy.
"Misunderstanding my little jokes is no good"

>> No.18274941
File: 2.17 MB, 2185x1091, halp.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
18274941

I have begun reading. I'm really determined to make it through this children's book. There is no Kanji which is really killing me.

I have made it to the last line, but there is something I cannot figure out despite my google searching. I assume I have figured it out already, but I need confirmation.

Does

もってかえって おじいさんと いただきましょう

mean

while Grandfather was Eating?

I can't figure out
もってかえって
because all the results lead me to it being with / by or rather / on the contrary.

I assume the connotation is that while Grandma is doing laundry Grandpa is being lazy eating?

Thank you.

>> No.18274953

>>18274941
持って
帰って
take it home and eat it with ojiisan

>> No.18274966

>>18274953
Thanks

>> No.18274999

about a month of listening practice and i can now understand half a sentence per episode. i think i'm going to make it, lads.

>> No.18275010

>>18274941
>I'm really determined to make it through this children's book.
You're not going to last long forcing yourself to read boring shit like that. Find an interesting manga to read instead. You still have pictures to help you tell what's going on, but you get an actual story rather than inane drivel.

>> No.18275012

今日のわたしはゲイ

>> No.18275019

>>18275012
今日までのお前と同じですね。

>> No.18275020

>>18274936
>"Misunderstanding my little jokes is no good"
But the one that was joking was the guy.

>> No.18275031

>>18274936
>>18275020
She's talking about the guy not making the other girl misunderstand because he is speaking to her with 軽いノリ

Basically she is jelly of the other girl getting his attention. Also how do you even translate 軽いノリ into English? Nonchalant or something?

>> No.18275037

>>18275031
but he was talking with such a 軽いノリ to the girl herself, too. I mean, he was joking and shit, right?

>> No.18275049

>>18274893
>>18274924
Thank you, but what about that last part, 「草野にヤキ入れてからさ。」?

>> No.18275056

>>18275020
>>18275031
Yeah I know, not a translator sorry.
Kinda messed up what I was meaning to write there.

>> No.18275115

>>18275037
I honestly don't get what you're not understanding.

"Alright we're gonna head back to the classroom now"

"Make sure to keep it casual as to not get her hopes up (lit: create a misunderstanding)"

>> No.18275143

>>18275049
Depending on the context: "After I'm done fucking with 草野 that is..."

>> No.18275163

>>18275143
I don't really get it, but thank you. goo.dictionary turned up 焼き入れ as tempering or strengthening.

>> No.18275179

>>18275163
It's a verb, that's why it's やきいれて.

焼きを入・れる
ゆるんだ気持ちを引き締めさせる。また、制裁や拷問を加える。「後輩に―・れる」

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