/jp/ - Otaku Culture

Ohajou my fellow nihongo.
Today is a good youbi to learn nihonjin!
Let's all make much progress.
Itadakimasu.

1 hour left of work and I get to make some 焙じ茶 and study Japanese.

こことても寒いです。。。

>>18164237
かわいい

>>18164222
first post worst post. fuck 4chan

dont procrastinate!

I hate how my new workschedule means I have to do reps at night, my retention is going down

>>18164296
When do you leave home for work?

>>18164302
I get up 5:30 am and have to be out of the house by 5:55 and I'm getting home roughly twelve hours later

If there is a verb + なきゃ it means you must do it right?
If you put いけない　after it does that make it even more important to do that thing?
Like this なきゃいけない　isn't that triple negative? Japanese sure love negatives don't they?

>>18164318
what?

>>18164318
All the added endings like いけない have a specific nuance about in what way or for what reason the thing must be done. Leaving it as なきゃ implies the double ending, but leaves the nuance unspecified. なきゃいけない is a simple logical double negative, like "can't not".

>>18164318
なきゃ often just omits the いけない part my dude

>>18164318
なきゃ with nothing afterwards implies なきゃ（なければ）いけない/だめ/ならない/etc. It's more casual than the full phrase, but the endings themselves carry different connotations and things like なきゃ and なくちゃ don't specify a particular ending, so it's not necessarily "less important".

>>18164335
>>18164340
>>18164347
Ah I get it so なきゃ is short for なければ　and the いけない/ならない part is implied?

So should I ignore the different endings for now and wait until I get better or can you tell me where I can find more about that?

Anyway thanks for the advice.

>>18164222
dostedt

>>18164384
You should get good faggot

>>18164384
just read more
you're going to get conflicting info on basic grammar points that don't translate directly into english, the only way to truly understand them is to see them a lot or become fluent and look them up in japanese-targeted resources

>>18164384
ならない is more theoretical, like you're not allowed to do something because of some law/rule/convention whatever
いけない has more direct consequences for yourself or others and there maybe some necessity to do or not to do something

>>18164384
>>18164384
>Ah I get it so なきゃ is short for なければ　and the いけない/ならない part is implied?
Yeah.
>>18164384
>So should I ignore the different endings for now and wait until I get better or can you tell me where I can find more about that?
Most grammar guides cover neg. conditional + だめ/いけない/ならない since it's pretty common, but this is just one particular use of the conditional form. You can use other negative words like 困る or more specific ones like 売り切れる as well, and, the conditional by itself can also imply them. As a beginner, I think all you need to know for now is that なきゃ with nothing afterwards implies a negative consequence, and thus, a need (with varying degrees of importance) to do something.

Why even learn Japanese if it's only spoken in Japan desu. Dumb

>>18164460
Everywhere the internet reaches becomes the spiritual property of the Japanese Empire.

>>18164460
When the Asian Century comes and Japan starts to colonise western countries that'll change for sure.

>>18164460
I feel like such a dumb fag for learning my native language now.

>>18164491
What? Are you a toddler?

>>18164491
>this retard can't even speak his native language
What, did your mom drop you when you were a baby?

>>18164460
I'm learning it because I'm a "collector" of languages. I have English, Spanish, German and French down already. Why do I waste so much time? Because I find it fun.

>>18164521
>"collector" of languages
>only 4 languages
What does it feel like knowing that Pajeets and people born in Switzerland grow up learning 4+ languages without collecting them?

>>18164491
I to am learning my native language. I'm a full blown Americanized Japanese. Makes me feel like a retard for not bothering til now.
>>18164508
>>18164502
In my case once my family left Japan to Europe they've spoken pretty much 0 Japanese.

>>18164521
I bet you think you're so special for learning Spanish, German and French, literally the 3 easiest languages for an English speaker.

>>18164534
I'll give you French and Spanish, but nani the fuck are you talking about, German is way more difficult. Replace German with Italian and I'll agree.

>>18164530
You're not Japanese, retard. You're American. Your race doesn't fucking matter here. Your native language is American English. Stop being stupid.

>>18164534
You're right. They are the easier ones. I just choose em because they interest me.

Okay, enough wanking about your language prowess and back to Japanese, thanks.

>>18164547
Then let me reword it. I want to learn the language my parents speak. If the thought of learning Japanese is so stupid what the fuck are you doing here?

>>18164553
Get off the internet mom, I'm hungry

>>18164557
haha your mom is a weeb

The things people do for (You)s never cease to amaze me.

So when do you all do your reps? I usually do them around the time I wake up but switched to doing em around noon. Been retaining them a lot better since then.

>>18164553
do it in japanese

>>18164562
I do them right after masturbating. Before you respond with a smug anime face calling me a troll, I'm serious.
I read somewhere that your cognitive capacity is increased by ~20% the hour after orgasm (be it through masturbating or sex), so that's why I do it this way.

>>18164564
はいはい、語学力の自己満足はそこまで、日本語の話に戻ろう

>>18164562
when I'm on the shitter

>>18164574
いわゆる賢者タイムってやつだろうな

>>18164599
Yeah me too man, my favourite anime is One Piece.
I understood this message because I do my ankis after jacking off.

>>18164574
I usually only feel depressed afterwards.

Go to sleep or get 20 new cards in?

>>18164691
Get 10 in and add another 10 only if you feel like it

>>18164726
The words of a wise man. Guess I'll end up doing the whole thing, we'll see
Tomorrow I'm studying my reviews first thing in the morning to avoid this situation

I got about 1k into core before I started mining, and now I only really add cards from my mining deck while continuing to just do my regular reps from core. Should I just add the cards I've already learned from core to my mining deck to have it all in one place?

>>18164749
What does it matter?

At what point did you feel progress start slowing?

Been looking at various sources on how long would it reasonably take to learn Japanese. Around here I've mostly heard around 5-6 years. On /r/LearnJapanese they say you need 9 years minimal to have a perfect understanding or 7 years to be fluent.

Are people here low balling or is /r/LearnJapanese high balling?

>>18164769
At the very beginning

>>18164781
/r/LearnJapanese assumes you're going to be using study methods that don't work at all for at least two years, probably longer.

>>18164769
As soon as I started reading/trying to read, even when I was like 1 week into core2k I was already able to recognize more or less words depending on the media

>>18164783
>assumes you're going to be using study methods that don't work at all
What sort of study methods are they assuming people are doing? Isn't it more or less
>Learn Kana
>Do Core2k reps
>Mine
>Practice reading easy shit.
>Listen to shit

>>18164801
College textbooks without any substantial input.

>>18164781
>puns
lmao, fucking redditors. They aren't even that hard.

>>18164801
Rosetta Stone is very popular for some reason.

>>18164798
Shut the fuck up anime lady.
I will become fluent in Japanese, move to Detroit and teach black kids to become fluent too just to spite you.

>>18164781
>N3 is 2k
Is this true?

>>18164781
Nine years?! Are they thinking people who are serious about studying need NINE fucking years? Isn't that place supposed to be known for it's N1 members and experts on the language? Why are they spewing such a long ass time?

>>18164781
Reddit is a complete piece of shit website where reputation is more important than factuality, I hope you don't actually take everything these sheep say at face value
Anyways these numbers don't make any sense, you'll achieve fluency whenever you're good enough period. And it heavily depends on your motivation and available time.

>>18164834
>where reputation is more important than factuality
As opposed to this thread where neither is important.

>>18164834
On the other hand, 4chan is a place where everyone wants to tell you that they were reading in two months, fluency in one year and were basically native by two and a half.

Pick your poison.

>>18164871
Who does this?

>>18164871
I'll have you know I've read the last volume of my SoL manga and only looked up a word once, so I'm bascially fluent

>>18164871
>reading in two months

>>18164891
>tfw I am essentially and basically fluent but I will never be bascially fluent
TELL ME YOUR SECRET, SENPAI

>>18164885
I do it. Along with posting misinformation and incorrect answers to questions. Sometimes I start arguments with myself.

>>18164926
This is false. I'm responsible for all arguments that happen in DJT, so you cannot possibly start arguments with yourself here.

>>18164930
Actually, it is I, the great master bamboozler, who comes up with all the ruses here on DJT.

>>18164869
Still less obnoxious than basing your opinion off what's popular
Anonimity encourages lurkers to look things up and think for themselves (that's why the new guide needs to fuck off), and to convincingly win an argument you need to resort to logical thinking. Or do the complete opposite, depending on how much you care.

>>18164871
Said no one ever

>>18164944
>(that's why the new guide needs to fuck off)
sakubi defense force in 3...2...

>>18164944
>Anonymity encourages lurkers to look things up and think for themselves
It does the opposite. Anonymity encourages people to join hiveminds because they empathize with anything that sounds right to them, because they don't know who's saying it. Communities like koohii and /r/learnjapanese have terrible opinions because they're full of normies, not because they have accounts. Just look at how terrible the DJT on the other board is.

>>18164954
i know you're having fun but this "sakubi is everything new that i disagree with" meme is pure cancer and you should feel terrible for acting like you believe it

>>18164957
>Just look at how terrible the DJT on the other board is.
except it's better

>>18164964
Yes, I too like it when beginners have long arguments about the merits of sentence decks and get other people to believe their made-up bullshit.

>>18164970
it's not like there was anything truly worthwhile in this entire thread so far

face it, language learning threads invariably suck

>>18164944
It is downright impossible for people who are beginning in learning a language to look things up on their own and think for themselves and come to the correct conclusions. You're just mad because the new guide says something you don't like, probably about kanji study or stupid flashcard formats.

At least be honest, jerkass. Be glad you're anonymous, because if you weren't, you'd have a history to look through to find the stupid shit you believe.

>>18164997
any learning thread sucks, for that matter, since 90% of the time it's the unconscious incompetent that don't know better talking.

Anybody know where I can find a not english patched Tsukihime? Checked nyaa and google.

I can only find ccd files that seem to be corrupt when I mount them or pre-patched archives.

>>18165047
I do.

>>18164769
When I started losing interest in what I was reading. I stopped having the will to look up grammar, and started reading sentences purely by context. Not great, man.
It sucks, because the only thing I'm super interested in is untranslated JRPGs, but manually looking up vocab is slow and painful.

>>18164769
when I don't encounter new words frequently enough to actually bother looking them up

I don't think my english has improved since middle school either 2bh

How valuable is Japanese as a skill, I want to learn regardless but I want to know how hard I should go into it? Also is a college certificate worth it?

>>18165143
bragging rights
entire country to do business with
entire countrys worth of media to consume

basically the same reason you learn any language

>>18165143
If you're asking this you shouldn't bother.

>>18165143
fluent speakers are valuable

if you only read just treat it as a hobby

>>18165143
It's completely useless. Learn Mandarin instead.

>>18165143
Most people here learning it on this thread probably won't be learning it in 2 years time, that should tell you how "valuable" it is. We see ourselves in Tokyo, negotiating million dollar deals for breakfast while speaking fluent Japanese with JAV gf, but we won't.. and we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed off.

>>18165181
>JAV gf
Do you seriously want to have a literal whore as your girlfriend? I knew you guys were degenerates, but this is a bit too much.

>>18165204
the person you're responding to is, in fact, trolling

>>18164834
They do give good advice there though. You shouldn't rely solely on online strangers regardless.
>>18165181
Are people really expecting that? Because that's retarded.

>>18165206
What if I told you that I'm trolling too?

I get it. Japanese is a hard language. It will take your sanity. It will destroy your soul. You've given up.
But please, keep this negativity to yourself. No one wants to hear you vent about how much of a loser you are.

We should really make a r/DJT subreddit, this general is way better than learnjapanese

>>18164781
How long should it really take with daily studying then? 9 years sounds about right to me.

>>18165229
If you need a whole decade to get fluent in a foreign language you're actually mentally impaired.

>>18165229
If you aren't capable of reading through the original Genji Monogatari in three months you should just kill yourself because you are a failure and will never be capable of anything.

>>18165211
I posted there for a while as if it was DJT, using DJT talking points (with a little more civility) and I got upvoted to the top pretty frequently. I felt like the community had good instincts, even if there were times where they were completely clueless.

The problem is when someone with name recognition posts and gets sent to the top automatically with horseshit or fucking responds to you with a completely unnecessary "elaboration" adding nothing of substance whatsoever, like an obnoxious leech.

It's impossible to call them out on anything; their biased idiot fan club will immediately drop you below 0, and then unbiased (yet clueless) onlookers will either just ignore your post upon seeing the negative score or downvote you further. The system is fucked up.

Also I'm pretty sure a lot of them were bullied out of early DJT, since several of them definitely know and fucking hate this place.

>>18165280
p*nnw*sedom is the worst

>>18165229
No one in this thread is that good, and 9/10 people bragging about their sugoi Japanese here probably still use Rikai and texthookers.

>>18165285
And you're the one guy who is actually chou sugoi~~ at japanese, right? Fuck off.

I was thinking of programming a online group telephone game: you'd get six people into a game, and then there would be six rounds where each person takes turn translating Japanese into English and vice versa. At the end you get back what you originally wrote, run through six amateur translators and see how badly they've butchered it.

Would anyone here be interested in playing if I ever got it off the ground?

>>18165305
I think you can already do that with google translate

>>18165305
I am 100% that's never gonna work. There are not enough people interested in learning Japanese, and even less people who are actually remotely good at it.

>>18164781
What the fuck is "perfect understanding"? Have these people ever spoken a language before?

>>18165314
The fun of telephone isn't getting back what you started with, it's watching how badly people butchered it along the way.

>>18165280
>bullied off an anonymous board where no one knows who you are
How fucking stupid are these people?

So who else is currently talking to j-babes on LINE? Why even post here?

>>18165296
I am very sorry. I did not intend to cause offense.

>>18165319
Well, go for it then. Such a game seems pretty easy to program. I don't know if there would be many people interested in playing it, though.

>>18165318
What they mean is someone who is able to read, understand and speak Japanese with 99% accuracy.
>>18165280
>The problem is when someone with name recognition posts
That's exactly why I stopped going there. A lot of those well known "experts" aren't experts at all. Some even post N4 level questions and take weeks to read a single manga volume. Plus they tend to give a lot of wrong information. One mentioned here before was "Women have to use Atashi and men have to use Boku or Ore in all situations.". Hell one even said you have to use Watakushi in all formal situations.
>>18165235
Depends on how you study anon. If you're really fucking lazy about it a decade seems about right.

What sub groups other than RH provide jap subs alongside english subs?
I kind of don't want to use subs2srs.

Do you have to use the same account in order for J-CAT to give you different questions?

I've taken it 3 times with 3 different accounts and I'm pretty sure it's given me the same questions all 3 times.

>>18165371
No it gives you the same questions. I've taken it 3 times on the same account.

>>18165377
So there's no point in retaking it

>>18165377
What the fuck? Why do people like this thing?

>>18165384
I'd say taking it once every year or so is fine since the test will adapt as you get better. If you take it every 6 months like it says you can, you'll just get the same questions.

>>18165385
It's fun seeing a physical representation of your improvement.

>>18165371
It gives you different questions but the pool of questions is small.

Does anybody here play retro JRPGs at all? I want to try, but a lot of the time, the kanji in them are just completely unrecognizable blobs to me. This is especially bad with SFC titles, but even PSX era games have some words that are really hard to make out. I usually look up and learn stroke order when I encounter new kanji, but it hasn't really helped me with them considering they're basically just blobs of pixels at this point.
Is this something that I'll eventually just be able to manage once I know words better, or am I going to have to really strain and push myself to figure out what these words are?

>>18165470
Just play modern JRPGs, man.

>>18165470
>Is this something that I'll eventually just be able to manage once I know words better

This, but it takes a long time.

>>18165473

>>18165470
go import dq11 for PS4. Old school gameplay, HD text.

>>18165473
Most of the modern JRPGs that I want to play, I've already played. For example, stuff like Metal Max, some SaGa titles, some weirder niche stuff like Idea no Hi, and then on top of that Super Robot Wars which is gonna be hell no matter how you look at it with all the sci-fi and military vocab it introduces in addition to boatloads of unusual kanji for attack name style points. I guess it'd be fun to play a DQ title without having to deal with the stupid shitty accents they add.

But honestly, as long as I can rely on an "aha" moment coming through for me a few years down the line, that's alright, I guess. If nothing else, I'm only like 6 months into my studies, so I can still chalk stuff like this up to being a beginner.

>>18165499
I actually saw on the PSN store it was on sale the other day, I might have to try picking it up.

>>18165499
lmao. DQ. Scripts are garbage though. May as well play original Phantasy Star

Do Gaijin names have to follow a certain pitch accent pattern, or can I say mine with whichever downstep I want?

>>18165527
-shrug- there's also persona, an a ton of Trails series games to try then, among others. Also he could replay classics in HD like FFX, FFXII or the HD releases of FFVII and others. Just throwing ideas out there.

>>18165530
>HURR DO KATANAKANA WORDS HAVE PITCH ACCENT???

>>18165577
My name isn't a defined katakana loanword like テーブル though, so it would make sense that names might follow an abnormal pattern or no specific pattern at all

>>18165601
Heiban is a thing.

>>18165608
So what you could've said is just "All gaijin names are heiban" and answered my question without being a douchebag?

>>18165615
Yeah, but it wouldn't have been funny at all.

>>18165622
I fail to see how whinging about someone asking a non-obvious question is funny either

>>18165577
>>18165608
Are you intending to imply all loanwords are heiban or are you just being an ambiguous dick?

>>18165633
Heiban is the default pitch accent. Therefore, words that don't have a established pitch accent like foreign names should follow the heiban (flat) pattern.

For those who read through tae kim grammar guide, how long did it take you?

>>18165755
2 weeksish of poking at it

>>18165755
I only used it as reference

>>18165755
It took me so long that I eventually stopped studying entirely because I was going through it too slowly, tried to memorize each section, and got burnt out by a lack of progress.
By the time I got back into my studies,
Sakubi had been created, so I just read that instead.

>>18165776
I wouldn't use Sakubi, it only gets pushed by shills around here. It's unambiguously absolute garbage, he even had to make a second guide for the OP in order to push his shit here.

anyone else write kanji by hand when they encounter it for the first time on Anki?

http://ttbj1.cegloc.tsukuba.ac.jp/apply/agree/

Same-day registration listening/grammar test if anyone wants to try. Not sure how it compares to J-CAT.

For the full option, select the bottom option when it asks you which test to take.

>>18165809
yes, it's good. leave the thread before the rabid autist attacks you

>>18165809
I do it until I start to get a feel for it, and I do it for cards that I fail.

>>18165809
Depends on the Kanji. If it's one that I know won't pop up too much I don't really bother.

>>18165809
Just started and I do this. I tend to write them if I have any trouble at all with remembering it

>tfw updated shit firefox
>rikaichan is dead
I found an alternative but the function I miss the most is the J>J dictionary. God forbid I have to open a new tab to look shit up now.

>>18165825
Any idea how long it takes?

Does using custom study in Anki mess up the spaced repetition thing? Or should I be fine to do that

>>18165809
Given the amount of obscure vocab I usually find by reading chuuni LN, that's an unreasonable thing for me to do.

>>18165882
The main feature of this test is the (very) short time limit for each individual question

Listening section: 90 questions (30 x 3 sections), 4 seconds per question*
Grammar section: 90 questions (30 x 3), 10 minutes per section
Kanji/Listening section: 50 questions (50 x 1), 4 seconds per question*

*starting from when the speaker stops speaking

~40 minutes if you let the clock run out on every question. So realistically, ~30 mins maybe.

What are some good games to study my japanese in. Trying to play Final Fantasy 7 but I'm pretty sure its aimed at teens. Reading manga is for fags.

>>18165915
dq

Anyone know why Yomichan audio on Chrome sometimes doesn't work? Works in my work computer but at home it's some weird sound for all words.

>>18165915
Dragon Quest IX has furigana and it's simple as fuck Japanese since it's aimed at kids. If you can read NHK Easy you'll be more then fine.

>>18164834
this. I started in 2016 but slacked hardcore after 6 months of learning and spent 2017 just hitting good on my anki every day just so I wouldn't pile up. I'm doing neet tier time on this language right now and I'm already doing better then that retarded list is saying.

It largely depends on YOUR TIME/MOTIVATION and how much effort your actualling putting in. 1 year is enough to get solid grasp of the language at the very least with atleast 4 hours a day to spare.

>>18164781
>>18164834
>>18165945
reddit learners stick to textbooks and never read real japanese aside from carefully picked readers (if you can call them that). they just seem to float from beginnner book to beginner book or spend all their time in kanjiland.

say what you will about steve, but this video si 100% right

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5IPArDxO40&feature=youtu.be

i started reading (yotsuba, nhk easy) after doing half of tae kim and i've had no issues. you just need to not be afraid to not know stuff.

>>18165915
I've played about 70 games in japanese but I can't really point to a single one that helped more than others. They're just practice, like most everything else.

Be careful not to get stuck playing the same couple games for 100s of hours, at that point it's just brainless muscle memory and you're not learning jack shit.

>>18165968
Then it'd be better to play a game you're unfamiliar with?

>>18165964
Pretty much. You just need to dive and expect to fuck up over and over until it eventually just sticks.

Which is why I always tell people learning radicals is a fucking waste of time since its not guaranteed to work every time.

Do compound verbs have to follow a specific order, or can they be stacked in any combination?
I.E.: 止めて走っている＝走って止めろ？

>>18165976
What do you mean not guaranteed to work every time? The point of radical study is to familiarize yourself with the components that Kanji are made up of firstly, and secondly to begin to pay attention to strokes, stroke order, etc., instead of just seeing them as a mess of lines that your EOP brain can't decipher as mroe than a picture or image of scribbles.

>>18165992
What? That doesn't even make sense

>>18165975
I'm not going to tell you how to enjoy your vidya, just use moderation and common sense.

Also don't call it "studying" anywhere but here; you'll be laughed at, probably for good reason.

>>18165993
Languages aren't math you can't find a logical answer with logical thinking. You just NEED to remember it period. When your speaking in english you don't put together the words your speaking because you did the steps properly in your head you just KNOW it. Stroke orders are fuck all useless especially if your reading kanji in Times New Roman font on the web like most of us since your gonna already see a mess of lines already (if you can even see the line of course)

>>18165889
Could you recommend your favorite, most engaging chuuni LN? I'm really starting to like reading LNs and don't have anything of that sort on my list

>>18165804
If you actually believe this you might need to be hospitalized.

>>18166002
How would I say stop running then, just 走るな? And that still leaves the meat of the question there.

>>18166038
走るのを止めろ

>>18166014
As a side note, I have no idea why someone hasn't re-made the LN general.

>>18166038
You can mix and match compound verbs, but the main part goes at the end.

For example, let's say you need to mix a salad before eating it.
「このサラダは混ぜて食べる」　（まぜてたべる）」
ー＞Mix this salad before eating it.

vs.

このサラダは食べて混ぜる
= You mix this salad by eating it.


As for your sentence, if you say '走って止めろ！’　then you're saying something like 'run stop!' which makes no sense. '止めろ！’　or ’走るな’　(走らないで、止めてください　etc) are all valid ways of telling someone to stop running.

If you want to chain verbs together, try and think of things that are actually done together.

>>18165993
I'm sorta just getting a feel for radicals/stroke order through practice as I learn vocab. Is that radical study or is it more involved?

>>18166072
Radical study is spending all of TWO WHOLE WEEKS doing a radical deck

>moved to Japan
>got a job
>am fairly good at speaking, reading, and writing through a computer/phone, but have completely forgotten how to handwrite kanji like I learned in school
>probably somewhere around N2 level but have no idea how to progress from here
help

>>18165992
I think you're looking for 走り止めろ not 走ってやめろ

>>18166080
first tell me who you're quoting

>>18166084
sorry, it's my own story.

>>18166080
Start by committing sudoku

>>18166037
You're either him or someone he's paying to shill for him.

>>18165804
I know you just got another response after like an hour of nothing, but I just got back from work and I don't really care if this looks like a samefag.

There's no evidence or justification for any of the /int/djt sakubi memes. You can maybe argue that the writing style is bad because it's subjective, but everything else is complete bullshit. If you believe conspiratorial memes that have no evidence or justification, you're probably seriously sick in the head. Take mood stabilizers, lithium, or multivitamins, stop taking stimulants (especially nicotine and amphetamines) and stop consuming alcohol, and get your psychological profile evaluated. This might seem like a passive awareness or some great evil to you, but it's a serious pathology. Seek medical attention.

There are a lot of serious mental problems, but this particular fixation that you have is unambiguously absolute illness, you even had to involve unrelated people in your sickness in order to push it here.

This is no different from the sakurautist or "DOJG deck maintainer" boogeymanning and I'm telling you now the same way I told them back then. It's extremely unhealthy and you're only hurting yourself. People that already know a lot about what you're talking about don't believe you. You don't want to be that guy.

>>18166074
One week max if you're not using a terrible deck with way too much info on it. 30 new cards a day is nothing when each card takes maybe ten seconds max.

>>18166092
>he's paying to shill for him

>>18166093
>One week max if you're not using a terrible deck with way too much info on it.

it makes for a good intro to kanji study though considering a good number of them are also kanji by themselves.

>>18165871
What alternative are you using?

>>18166093
This is what I mean. No one who isn't a shill tries this hard to prove that all this Sakubi love developed organically through a grassroots movement of people looking for something to replace old terrible Tae Kim. Nobody asked for what Sakubi is pushing, and we're all sick of hearing about it. I hope the next OP also stops putting this stupid second guide up there, nobody wants that either.

>>18166165
he didn't say anything about any of that, just you being sick

>>18166013
>your

>>18166185
I was just telling him why this isn't paranoia, just like the Sakura autist was disruptive and easily identifiable. This guy speaks the same way government officials speak to the population when they take to the street. On the one hand, any criticism is unjustified, and all people saying that it's shit is either raiding anons from /int/ or mentally unstable people. Who's the real paranoid person in this scenario? I feel that shill is.

>>18166212
the sakura autist wasn't identifiable at all anon

>>18166013
Jesus christ I advocate against learning radicals because you'll be learning them naturally while going through vocab/kanji anyways but you're a fucking retard, holy shit.

All languages have a certain "logic" to them. It's not just random, mindless memorization, and the sooner you tell your brain to stop being retarded and wake the fuck up the sooner you'll begin learning at a much faster rate.

I always wondered why the fuck 落ち着いて was labeled as N2 vocab, and your post might just be my answer. God.

>>18166212
there are at least three people we called sakura autist
>>18166226
good post

Imagine spending more time arguing over which is the best way to learn a language instead of actually learning it

>Don't argue about learning methods if you're a beginner.
>Don't feed drama queens.

>>18166226
The logic isn't nearly as complicated as radicucks make it out to be. The only """"logic"""" you could use in languages is probably past and future tense or things like that.

>>18166252
radicals aren't complicated
now, autosegmental metrical theory? that's complicated. and real.

>>18166237
>there are at least three people we called sakura autist
How the fuck would you know, unless you're a mod and can see IP adresses? Fuck off, even if it was people imitating Sakura, they were being disruptive exactly like him so it's more the behavior that we called Sakura. If you don't understand that, maybe you need reddit, where people are all linked to accounts.

>>18166271
baiting them onto webpages of my own design with image access logs

>>18166271
Two different people admitted to trolling by pretending to be the guy that posted the really ugly gray-background Sakura OP image.

>>18166226
I'd agree he's wrong that languages have no logic, but some shit in every language is just "memorize this" to some degree

>>18166287
x memorize this
o learn this

>>18166289
Same thing up to a relabeling. it comes down to "you can't logic your way to the solution here. learn the info and move on" for a few things.

>>18166293
Having to be learned from scratch doesn't mean it's illogical. It just means that it's an axiom. Nothing is truly arbitrary, and any perceived complexity is a result of attempting to structuralize things that have no taxonomy.

>>18166287
There's exceptions to otherwise logical rules and certain finnicky details that require some degree of learning in every language, yes. But you're foolish if you don't approach your time of learning and/or reading the same way you'd approach a puzzle.

You can pretty easily infer meanings, compounds and even readings of quite a few words through logic alone, if you have the base knowledge necessary to do so. If you're not further learning through exposure (be it reading or anything else) and instead you're just reviewing and looking things up constantly for anything other than confirmation, then you're doing it wrong.

>>18166320
You don't even have to approach it like a puzzle. Enough exposure will give you the solution just like that.

>>18166320
I totally agree. not saying that you can't ever puzzle things out, just that sometimes you can't.

>>18166226
天井 is listed as N1 vocabulary. These occurrences only suggest those lists being mostly BS

>>18166320
>You can pretty easily infer meanings, compounds and even readings of quite a few words through logic alone
Yeah, you CAN do this, and sometimes you're even right, but very often when you try to "logic out" the meaning of a phrase based on parts you end up dead wrong thanks to some splendid fuckery of the the Japanese language. Even basic shit like 無念 will fuck you over.

If nothing else you should learn all the radicals so you can actually name the parts instead of saying "that one thing," since often the radicals themselves are kanji that aren't often used in their own right.

>>18165825
>>18165907
Took about 40 minutes, including loading times and such.
Is this decent?
By the way, I don't know if it's just me, but the first option only shows up after I click one of the options.

>>18166345
Yeah they don't even put out official vocabulary lists anymore. Anything remotely up to date is pure guesswork. Have some garbage "N1" words according to whatever tags tagaini jisho and jisho.org use:

借り (かり): borrowing, debt, loan.

向き (むき): direction, orientation, aspect, situation, exposure, suitability, tendency.

反する, 叛する (はんする): (1) to be contrary to, to be inconsistent with, to contradict. (2) to act contrary to (rules or guidelines), to violate, to transgress. (3) to oppose, to rebel, to revolt.

大部 (たいぶ, だいぶ): (1) lengthy (of a book, etc.), voluminous. (2) most (e.g. most part), greater, fairly, a good deal, much.

群 (ぐん): (1) group, bunch, crowd, throng, swarm, band. (2) group.

叫び (さけび): shout, scream, outcry.

任す (まかす): to entrust, to leave to a person.

助け (たすけ): assistance, help, aid, support, reinforcement.

病む (やむ): to fall ill, to be ill.

最早 (もはや): (1) already, now. (2) no longer, not any more.

The noun versions of verbs are basically cheating but the total stuff you can find that's super ultra common is pathetic and shows how bad every level below N1 is.

>>18166393
Given that the kanji woman was speaking at about the level of the 2nd listening section, I would've expected a similar score in both

nice job though

Putting new cards at the end fucked my retention.

>>18164818
Good luck.

>>18166414
doing that does that

>>18164818
my public middle school teaches japanese and it takes a year to learn hiragana

>>18166428
woah i didn't know you were 12

>>18166429
I realized after I typed it that it sounded like that

though they probably replaced it with mandarin by now

>>18166429
Everybody on the internet is a loli

>>18166410
Yeah, I made a few really dumb mistakes. Not too sure how to interpret my score, though. This test seems way, way easier than J-CAT.

>>18166238
This thread is here to discuss the process or ask questions, not as an aid to learning. Simmer down.

>>18166244
Apparently discussing learning methods as advanced learners gets reported anyway, so I don't know what we're even allowed to do here anymore.

>>18166543
maybe try not reiterating the exact discussions that have been going on for the past multiple years and can be accessed via archives

>>18164781
This chart is total bullshit except for hours and word numbers are somehow corresponding for me.

>>18166442
The only thing I like more about it is how speakers 2 and 3 sound closer to actual people and not NHK newscasters in an insulated sound booth, which is why I can't take N1 seriously.

though 3 had some grammar I've never heard anyone say aloud, which sounded a little artificial

>>18166551
Dude people didn't stop being born when you were born. New people who haven't been here for 10 years don't know everything that's been discussed on this website. Are they supposed to go in the archives and read every edition of DJT before posting? Fucking idiot.

>>18166575
advanced learners aren't new people

>>18164781
>400 J-CAT
>6500 Kanji
does J-CAT actually contain 1級 kanji or is the author just imagining shit

>>18164781
>6k words
>functional
>appropriate book : 青い鳥文庫
Haaa.. These people have no fucking clue. 10k words is the bare minimum required to be "functional".

>>18166590
I wanna fuck a girl's number.

>>18166587
J-CAT is an adaptive test.

Reading shit in Japanese for long periods really fucks with my head. My brain feels overloaded

>>18166609
Same. But that's how it was reading as a little kid, too.

>>18166590
You can't even get through children's books without knowing at least 20k words.

>>18166609
Good. It means your brain is slowly getting used to information in japanese format.

>>18166619
I feel like I'm making progress but it's so slow. I'm at least better than I was a month ago.

>>18164547
Only whites are American. It's just a place to shop or parasitize for everyone else there.

>>18166638
Calm down there, /pol/tard.

>Core 10k vocab
>Has 20k cards
Not whining but fuck thats misleading.

>>18166901
just be like the non-writers and turn off recall

>>18167081
non writers recall?

>>18167139
not accurately, they're just "recalling" vague shapes and then telling themselves they were correct subconsciously because they recognize the shape.

Each time I read try to read FSS I notice that nagano uses すィまセン instead of すみません
Is this how hip people said excuse me in the 80s or what

>>18166067
膣内で出すぞ！

>>18167329
すけべ

>>18164957
This might be true to some extent, but I think that this doesn't apply to everyone. At least I like to think so.

>>18165001
I actually agree with with most of the "new" guide but it is way too opiniated, the old guide was much better because the focus was on introducing the different learning methods and being overall useful. Some might argue that it focuses too much on individual kanji study because of the text distribution and they'd be right, but if you're able to look past that it's still pretty good.

>>18167323
that particular 仮名遣い seems rare but すいません is not outdated or uncommon

it's not dialect or slang or anything, just a slur

Do you mix new cards and reviews? I'm thinking this might be somewhat better to test your retention, because if you do reviews at a separate time the information that you've already studied it might make "fake-memorization" easier

>>18167630
yes but because when I tried new cards last my retention was actually worse

Are older VNs harder to read or is it essentially the same?

>>18165871
Furigana Inserter was a harder blow since it has no replacement.

Is this 好か or 女子か or something else?

>>18167760
じょしか！！

だよ

>>18167768
Thank you very much.

>>18167776
よんだことあるかも

りょうこかな

>>18167630
>Do you mix new cards and reviews?
Yes, since the first day I started using anki. I was afraid of the same thing.

私の妹はどこですか。。。
寂しい。。。

>>18167852
Isn't it moot anyway, since you can tell just by looking at the bottom if the card is new or not?

>>18167860
You can also hide this

>>18167860
I remember where I've seen a kanji first or a ward first for tons of my cards, of course I'm gonna remember that I added a card today or a few days ago.

おなかすいた

カロリーメイトたべたい

>>18167853
俺のベッドに
裸で

I hear this in anime a lot, this saying that's equivalent to "now's my chance" or "take this," they'll say "いまだ!" before doing their big attack.

is it actually or いまだ or いいまだ? Am I right about the meaning? Or am I mishearing what they're saying entirely?

>>18168277
いまだ！ just means "now!"

>>18168277
stop trusting subs

>>18168286
thank you

>>18168293
right, I know they take creative liberties so that it's easier for stupid westerners to understand. thank you too.

>>18164209
>http://djtguide.neocities.org/
>https://neodjt.neocities.org/newguide.html
Instead of having two separate links in the op, why not combine them adding a link to /jp/ guide under the main guide?
Change
>you can [not] learn japanese
>guide [start here]
>guide resource list

to
>you can [not] learn japanese
>guide [start here]
>guide [alternative]
>guide resource list

No?

>>18168308
How about deleting the """new guide""" altogether?

>>18168313
this

>>18168308
stop forcing this shit, nobody was asking for it in the first place

I find I'm slow at processing long strings of kanji compounds (usually technical terms pertaining to a specific semantic field) when spoken, even though I'd probably recognize the majority of the words in written form.
I think it's one of those things you just get used to after a while.

Nice blog.

>>18168603
y-you too

Anon, I have a favor to ask.. Do you mind filling out this questionnaire? It consists of 12 questions related to keigo usage in media, and should roughly take 2-3 minutes to complete.

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeSrBXeHQrwbuQHgbznsJ3eRpNyQjKeiExjo4eixqbww_ErCA/viewform?usp=sf_link

よろしくお願いします ^^

ps. I'm sorry if some of the questions do not make sense or grammatically bad. I'm still a beginner Japanese learner after all.

>>18168675
What's the questionnaire for?

Whatever it is for, it doesn't belong here.

>>18168675
I'll have my men working on it right away

Does anyone know if there are scans of the second edition of the Genki Workbooks?

>お縄とは罪人が縄で縛られること。つまり、逮捕されることを意味する。「ついにお縄」、「○○が詐欺でお縄」といったように、お縄だけでも逮捕といった意味になる他、「お縄になる」、「お縄にかかる」、「お縄につく」といった使い方もする。現代では手錠と言った方が現実的だが、言葉としては今もお縄が使われており、定着している

I think I understand the whole thing apart from

>「お縄になる」、「お縄にかかる」、「お縄につく」

Does anyone know what this part means? I don't understand what it's trying to say.

>saiga-jp died
rip in piece

Why is the new guide isn't recommending isolated kanji study?
In my experience studying kanji in isolation made it MUCH easier for me to remember words

>>18168816
It means 逮捕されることを意味する
Instead of just "rope" it also becomes "the state of being arrested".
So
>お縄になる
To "become" arrested
>お縄にかかる
To be involved in an arrest
>お縄につく
To be arrested (not sure of the nuance on this one)

>>18168783
Let me know if you want the answer key too.

https://mega.nz/#!ddUlmALD!i_WmkvfAWm93bsw_YwSKJRjHBgaYIhEkRDJizXvpdWQ

>>18168816
Pay attention to what follows those
>といった使い方もする
It's listing expressions used to describe the act of cuffing a thug. Refer back to といった

>>18168874
Thanks anon, that's a big help!
I found the answer key relatively fast on Google, but couldn't found the actual workbook. Thanks!

>>18168873
>>18168876
I get it now, thanks guys.

>>18168852
Because Heisig's method is dumb as shit. I'm all for individual kanji study along with grammar, but studying 2400 kanji meanings (some of which are made up) BEFORE learning a single word is pure social "scientist" wankery and was never proven to work at all.
Anyways the new guide is way too opiniated, it needs to fuck off

>>18168873
1. the state of being arrested/captured, as in you're stuck inside a cell for a while
2. what you said
3. the act of getting arrested, as in the police just caught you

Do you add names to your deck? Or do you have a second deck consisting of names, places and stuff like that?

>>18168906
I think that the point that the new guide is making is right, recommending a good specific method is better than listing countless options to a beginner. But it should really talk about all the different options that there are.
Also I was not advocating for starting with isolated kanji study, for me the sweetspot was starting after being somewhat done with core2k and after I started reading. I'm following KKLC and it's more or less good, I only wish it took frequency into account more, as I'm halfway done and there's still a few common characters I didn't encounter.

>>18168976
The alternative guide is for absolute beginners. It feels like it was written in a single sitting which I'm pretty sure is why the OP says to ask for clarification now.

>>18168961
I have a few with jinmeiyo to boost my E-peen since they don't appear in ordinary words (like 諏) but I never bother aside from that. Most of the names are easy to read but if even if you don't read it properly nothing changes.

Is it bad if I barely remember kanji writings?
I can recognize most words I'm learning but give me 2 characters with one differing stroke or something and I'm incapable of telling which is which

識
職
織
緑
綿
線
士
土

Learn radicals.

>>18164209
Someone mind explaining steps 6 and 7 in the Anki guide for me?

They're very confusing in the way they're worded, and I can't add any images to the cards, nor can set the review limit any higher.

>>18169192
will do

>>18169192
That shit's too tiny on my screen anyway so I couldn't read it if I knew radicals

>>18164222
>>18164232
>>18164262
>>18164302

>>18164560
The things they do indeed

>>18169225
ctrl + mouse wheel up

休ませていただけますでしょうか
I don't quite understand this example sentence from TK. Why is 休ませていた in the past progressive form and what's だけ even doing here?

>>18169253
Come on now
休ませて いただけます でしょうか

>>18169265
Oh, so it was a humble form. This sucks

>>18169206
Keep clicking around and you'll find deck options, have you made imported a deck yet?

>>18169225
I increase the scaling factor my display. High rez is great but retarded for reading

>限定区域飛行指導員制度

Do you think this is Japanese?

>>18169391
Yes.

>>18169391
that's probably some serious officialese, but yea

>>18167630
I'm unsure if you mean not putting them at the end, or not at the beginning either. I do new cards before reviews to get some dedicated focus on what I'm adding for the day. In case anyone hasn't used this setting, after the initial appearance, the repeats during learning phase are mixed with the normal reviews. They are slightly easier since they are fresh in my mind, but obviously the next day will no longer have this effect, so I'm not worried about a negative impact. I wouldn't put them at the end, but I wouldn't worry about day one retention being slightly easier from putting them at the beginning.

>>18169391
Japanese is good.

>>18164315
Same here. I fell asleep doing Anki last night.

>>18167685
>Koreans translated this thing and ported it to MS-DOS

>>18169686
Is this a Chinese Muramasa translation? Or am I never gonna read it?

>>18169838
What do you think?

>>18164534
actually the 3 easiest languages for an english speaker are french, dutch and german.
>>18164540
The rules are a bit more complicated because it has some grammar rules english dropped centuries ago, but if you aren't a brainlet and can work through the silly spelling and see through the pronunciation shifts to connect the words together, you'll see that they're practically the same language. It's just that most of english's germanic words became the lesser or crude versions of words that have french synonyms. IE: stool vs chair.

>>18169901
I might be remembering this wrong but I swear an anon said that the reason it looks like Chinese in this picture is because it's lots of insults strung together.

>>18169937
>the reason it looks like Chinese in this picture is because it's lots of insults strung together.
That's right. >>18169686 written the same way. Just a lot of kanji words together without any kana.

明日は暇じゃないです。
明日暇じゃないです。
I know the second one is right, but is the first one grammatically correct?

>>18170049
For fucks sake dude.

>>18170049
you should not be producing before even knowing reading, it will reinforce bad habits

>>18170057
I'm sorry, I know I'm bad.
I don't get alle that shit with は and が

>>18170079
I've been reading for years. I guess I just don't see mistakes when I make them. Is it that bad?

>>18169960
Thanks anon, that kind of gives me hope maybe I'll be able to read stuff like Muramasa one day.

>>18170109
i dont believe youve been reading for years if you dont know は and が my man

>>18170109
This is what you get for not giving grammar proper attention.

>>18170129
There are quite a bunch of VNs that top muramasa in terms of difficulty. If you aren't against using a dictionary often and a fair amount of historical terms you could get there faster than you think.

>>18170151
>>18170153
Can anyone at least give me a hint why the first one is wrong? Looking at explanations of は right now and still don't see it.

>>18170242
I really should read more historical stuff it eould help reading Muramasa a lot, my problem most historical stuff looks good and I don't want to read it until I get better. But I'll probably just have to force myself to read something or I'll never get better.

>>18170246
you're getting baited by people who know less japanese than you

>tfw jut finished a 3 hour study session

>>18170109
>I've been reading for years
Are you lying? Surely you'd know a better word for "not free" then

>>18170246
It isn't wrong.

How far into the core 2k/6k deck should one get before reading becomes somewhat doable?

>>18170345
I'm working through genki right now so I'm using their phrases even though they use awkward words and are way too formal.
And before you tell me to change the book, I'm doing it in a class(free and makes it way easier and cheaper for me to study a year in Japan) so I can't.

>>18170350
Thanks friend.

So guys, a little off topic, but I want to learn programming. I want to get really, really good at it. The problem is, I don’t know where to start. But you guys got me to pass the JLPT N1 in a year and a half so there is definitely a lot of sound theory being promoted in DJT. As such I thought I’d ask here since there are probably several solid programmers who can offer good advice.

Because I am a total beginner at programming, I can’t tell what is good advice and what’s shitty reddit advice. Good advice would be like getting a good grasp on kana, basic grammar, and basic vocab via an SRS then jumping into mining with reading and listening. Shitty reddit advice would be like placating yourself with placebo programs like Duolinguo and Rosetta Stone, trying to compose and speak broken sentences from day one and forming terrible habits. I want to be able to find the good advice for learning programming amidst all the snake oil. And if anyone has good ideas how without actually knowing your stuff beforehand, I’d love to hear them.

DJT may not be perfect, but with the guide and resources that have been built here it is absolutely the #1 place to learn Japanese, and maybe the best place to learn a language in general. So basically, I am looking like something but DJT, but for programming (and CS). A guide, resource list, and potentially community based on getting someone to the highest programming skill level possible as efficiently as possible, no bullcrap. Or, in lieu of that, just a list of helpful resources that any highly skilled coders in here have used. If any of you could be of assistance I’d greatly appreciate it.

>>18170400
>But you guys got me to pass the JLPT N1 in a year and a half
嘘くさい

>>18170309
More like I don't want to explain how a topic marker works. God forbid somebody ask him the difference between 明日は暇じゃないです and 明日が暇じゃないです

>>18170400
>you guys got me to pass the JLPT N1 in a year and a half
[ X ] 怪しい

>>18170380
Around halfway through, I found basic stuff like NHK easy level to be less tedious, with a lot less time taken to look shit up. From there progress starts accelerating since you can easily read through all the articles they post every day, which makes for good practice. You just add that as another daily essential thing you do alongside Anki.

>>18170400
I'm not a very good programmer, intermediate at best, but I will give you some DJT style advice.

If you want to get better at reading, read more.
If you want to get better at programming, program more.

I will never get better because I only program 1-2 times a year.

>>18170400
Find something to program, try to make it. If you can't make it, try to make something else. Repeat until you're a skilled programmer. That's REALLY all you can do. Advice from language learning doesn't apply to programming. Here's some different advice, though:

- Yes, most libraries really are as terrible as you think they are
- No, good programmers don't avoid looking things up
- You get good at programming by figuring out how to do the thing you're trying to do, not by reading lots of code
- Reading about programming helps a lot, unlike reading about languages, but you need to avoid falling for cult-like beliefs even more than you need to avoid them in language learning
- Things that seem like they should be really simple, like "draw this image at this point on a window on the screen", are actually either really complicated or use libraries that hide all the good stuff from you
- Weird special-purpose toolkits like Game Maker are actually really good places to naturally learn a lot of really basic common programming things, like how to store and use data for different purposes, but don't do anything for teaching you data structures or preparing yourself for the hell that is programming with terrible libraries
- Data structures are your friends.

>>18170439
>like how to store and use data for different purposes
state, temporarily, in objects and stuff*

>>18170400
What's important when learning anything is knowing yourself as best you can. Now that you know what's optimal for you, just find some book/ressource for programming, read through it and use the same techniques that you learned on DJT. Stuff like Anki's SRS can be transposed by reviewing what you read regularly. Stuff like practicing reading can be transposed into practicing programing and testing if your shit compiles, at first with the help of a textbook, then without the textbook. Do what feels right, you seem to know what you're doing anyway if you got to N1 after a year in a half. Be confident.

>>18170463
>just find some book/ressource for programming, read through it
Don't do this.

>>18170463
>Stuff like Anki's SRS can be transposed by reviewing what you read regularly
Also don't do this. SRSing programming is extremely pointless. The "language" parts of programming give no effort in memorizing what they are, the problem is only in understanding them conceptually, and that's impossible to forget. If you ever need the knowledge you will remember it within a few minutes max, it's not like language where there are 100000 tiny facts you have to recall so a few minutes of recall time on each one is mindbreaking.

>>18170469
>>18170474
I meant when going through the basics, just to understand the logical aspects correctly, like do while loops or whatever. But most of learning goes though practice.

>>18170489
There is so little and it's so systematic that there's no point. Like you can maybe read a three-page tutorial for a new programming language, but programming *books* are universally garbage, because they fill themselves with abstract borderline philosophical garbage that doesn't have anything to do with how you actually create code that does a particular thing.

>>18170049
If anything, the first one is better.

>>18170426
>halfway through
>look at my seen cards
>250/6000
fug

Hey DJT I just finished reading Hanahira, wondering what should read next.
I still remember the initial struggle when I first started reading Hanahira, considering it's supposed to be so piss easy how much will I struggle with a normal VN?

I heard 時計仕掛けのレイライン is easy, should I go with that?
I already prepared some eroge for when I'm done with Hanahira, but I'm not in the mood for those same for manga.

>>18170545
Surely he meant halfway through core2k
Are you doing grammar on the side? You can already try testing yourself
The "new guide" explains how to get started reading pretty nicely

>>18170561
Read Flyable Heart so you can feel how ridiculous Hanahira is. Leyline is fine too.

>>18170561
Just go for something you think is interesting as long as it's not some chuuni game or stuff that's generally known for being hard.
The first VN will always be hard, and the second one probably as well. But that's just because you're not used to reading. Small differences in difficulty won't make it much harder.

>>18170567
Nah I meant halfway through 6k. I hate looking up 3-4 words per sentence, and that started happening less around 3k for NHK easy level. Just go look up any article, there are a ton of words not in the first 1k, so it certainly isn't enough to read ''comfortably''.

>>18170570
May I ask what you mean by ridiculous?
Is Hanahira such a joke difficulty wise or do you mean the VN is better?

>>18170608
Well I'm kinda interested in Leyline, I just want to avoid doing a mistake by picking something that is either too hard or too easy.

>>18170620
>May I ask what you mean by ridiculous?
>Is Hanahira such a joke difficulty wise or do you mean the VN is better?
Hanahira is really bad and not actually that easy in an objective sense. It looks easy because it's really short and consists entirely of voiced dialogue, but aside from that, it's a bog standard (and bad) moe game, writing-wise.

You could also look at http://wiki.wareya.moe/Stats - "VNFreqList 90% target" and "modified Hayashi 2" are good references for first games.

>>18170620
>too hard
Not him but don't worry about that, you'll know if it's too hard, which is good and humbling, and it's not like you can't come back to it later.

>>18170616
Of course you won't read fluently at 1k, the point is reading makes learning vocab MUCH easier than pure rote

>>18170653
Not just easier but you learn each word better because you actually learn how to "read over" it rather than just memorizing a definition and pronunciation.

>>18170403
>>18170420

Here is where I first posted the certificate when it arrived: https://archive.whatisthisimnotgoodwithcomputers.com/int/thread/80233178/#80235251 And in the attached pic is one with slightly less censoring so you can see I have the original. Would just go take another pic but I'm out of the house right now.

>>18170436
>>18170439
>>18170463

To the rest of you, thanks for the advice. I'll keep in mind that hands-on application of knowledge is appreciably more important in programming than in language learning and try some of my own projects. I may try out a few CS textbooks though.

>>18170567
I took a couple of semesters of japanese in college before I continued afterward. The way they taught was really weird where they focused super hard on hiragana/katakana and grammar, while failing to acknowledge kanji so much as exist. So I've kind of been kicking the grammar can down the road, but my grammar I think is in a pretty okay spot (compared to my kanji/vocab at least).

>>18170616
That's pretty much what I was going for as well. I don't want to look up everything and constantly interrupt the flow to bombard myself with new information. If reading could serve as practice, as well as review for words I already know (by the time I start reading) that would be ideal. If that's halfway through 6k then it is what it is, I'll get there.

>>18170653
Yeah but it's too tedious to read NHK easy level before 3k, you end up spending too much time looking up shit and instead of consolidating vocab you've already seen, you're constantly trying to learn new words. Maybe graded readers or shit like that could be read with decent ''time spent to positive return'' ratio with only 1k words.

>>18170660
CS textbooks are good if they talk about data structures and complexity and how they affect designing programs. They're bad if they talk about stuff like test-driven development and declarative programming before you even understand why array sorting is hard.

>>18170674
I started reading after seeing like 1300 words in Anki and never looked back.

Most of it is so opinionated that it sucks but the FAQ in the new guide is really good.

>>18170680
>test-driven development
Well you've got a software engineering textbook if it's covering that

>>18170660
They include the percentile rank now?
I passed N1 with 133 points 2 years ago, and the result sheet didn't have that field.
It's probably close to your result though, due to the way they score the test.

>>18170682
It's certainly doable, but like the guy said in >>18170673 , some people just don't want to sink as much time into reading without having a good return on it. Reading should be more of a review tool for vocab you've already seen, and not a dictionary look-up mini game. This read more meme is detrimental to beginners, because it forces them into a tedious activity that most people can't stand. It's a lot less hellish to do this activity at 3k instead of 1k, and it's not that much more time spent in Anki. It's simply a good way to not get discouraged early on, but you can still try reading stuff here and there.

>>18170713
I had a CS instructor for a free course that started with unit testing and then moved into how TDD works before they taught hash maps, sets, linked lists, array trees, etc.

should i remove grammar from my anki deck? I cant remember many of these and im not reading anything that will use them so they just end up filling my reviews with the same goddamn thing daily over and over and it never sticks to me.

>>18170714
just checked again and it was 137/180, not 133

>>18170720
>unit testing and then moved into how TDD works
Software Engineering
>hash maps, sets, linked lists, array trees
CS

He's just an idiot or mislabelled the course

>>18170719
>Reading should be more of a review tool for vocab you've already seen, and not a dictionary look-up mini game.
That means you're reading material you don't really understand or that you're torturing yourself instead of enjoying the story. You don't need to have 100% certainty as to the definition of each word in each line of what you're reading, you just need to know what it says. Your subconscious will do the rest. I didn't have to look things up all the time and I ended up like learning a thousand or so new words a month after I started reading, no SRS attached.

>>18170688
Fuck off Sakubi, it fucking sucks and should be dumped. It doesn't take into consideration that people are all different and learn differently, it's just one size fits all bullshit like academia does. The original guide is way better, gives all decent options and lets people figure out what's best for them. Nobody wants or needs the new guide, and it's detrimental to beginners. Stop putting it in OP please.

>>18170728
It was a "real" course. Yes, I know he was an idiot. Fact remains that some people making CS resources think that SE is CS.

>>18170736
分かりません

>>18170736
ingest symptom suppression substances

>>18170733
>you just need to know what it says. Your subconscious will do the rest.
You need to know what the words roughly mean in order to do that. I'm not saying you should know every word in everything you read, but looking up half of every sentence isn't viable and burns people out easily. Also, the more time you spend looking shit up, the less you're spending understanding the grammar structures of what you're reading.

>I didn't have to look things up all the time and I ended up like learning a thousand or so new words a month after I started reading, no SRS attached.
That makes no sense. You mean you were guessing half of every sentence? That's retarded, you might as well do 1-2 months more of Anki and not having to do that.

>>18170719
>3k is not that much more time spend in Anki over 1k
I feel like I've been at Anki a long time already with 20 new kanji a day and I'm only recently past the 1k mark. How many new words should I have it set to, is the default 20 considered too low because I'm looking at about 100 more days to get to 3k at this rate

>>18170750
>>18170743
This is getting so tired. You shills always give the same few word replies, no substance or arguments, and always mention medication or something similar. Just fuck off and go push your shit on reddit instead, they love shitty, time-wasting resources.

>>18170674
I mean you have to pick the right material. Newspapers/websites are an awful way to get started to be honest.

>>18170673
Is this your first learning a foreign language? I'm genuinely asking, because you don't seem to grasp the point of reading. Of course you don't want to look everything up, which is why you start by learning vocab and grammar. But you definitely shouldn't treat reading as a tool to "test yourself", but more as a way to expand your general knowledge of the language.

>>18170764
I think 20 is about the recommended rate for RtK. Vocab can definitely go higher because it's much faster to move through than new kanji

>>18170764
Yeah I would leave it at 20 if I were you. But I meant in the grand scheme of things, it's not that much more time spent considering it's time saved eventually when you'll be reading, since you won't have to look everything up as much. Use this time to read Tae Kim or some other grammar things.

>>18170756
>You need to know what the words roughly mean in order to do that.
No you don't. How do you think people learn their first language?

>That makes no sense. You mean you were guessing half of every sentence? That's retarded, you might as well do 1-2 months more of Anki and not having to do that.
There's this magical thing called ｃｏｎｔｅｘｔ and it really does wonders. I had no trouble with things like picture related (in higher quality of course). Even though I didn't know like half the words when I went in it's still obvious what they could mean here.

You know what? No, this is way too self-evident for anyone that's gotten to a basic intermediate level. You're a beginner. Don't argue about learning methods.

>>18170772
>Newspapers/websites are an awful way to get started to be honest.
It's better than slangy Yotsuba which gets recommended constantly as first reading resource.

>But you definitely shouldn't treat reading as a tool to "test yourself", but more as a way to expand your general knowledge of the language.
It isn't only a tool to test yourself, but that's certainly part of the reason you're reading, to consolidate vocab you reviewed.

>>18170798
>There's this magical thing called ｃｏｎｔｅｘｔ and it really does wonders
You need to know the reading of words, and context isn't always clear like that. Stop being retarded. News articles don't have the same context as manga offers either. Some of us are learning for reasons other than comicbooks.

>>18170660
How long did it take to pass N1 from when you started learning?

>>18170810
>You need to know the reading of words
Read manga with furigana until you develop a basic vocabulary. Easy.
>and context isn't always clear like that.
It is. If you think it isn't then you just don't actually understand what you're reading, or it's terribly written.
>News articles don't have the same context as manga offers either.
Reading news as an absolute beginner is a terrible idea.
>Some of us are learning for reasons other than comicbooks.
You don't have to be learning for it to use it to learn. You're retarded.

>>18170798
Ask any beginner to make sense of the pic you posted, they won't get most of it. Stop lying to beginners, making them think they're mentally impaired if they can't magically guess a language they're unfamiliar with.

>>18170824
If you can't make sense of what I just posted then you haven't even started learning Japanese. You're not ready to "read" at all. Either that or you have asinine standards for understanding things.

>>18170819
How the fuck does the picture of a smug anime loli help you guess, through your magical process of ''context'', the meaning of 不採用確実? Fuck off with your lying bullshit.

>>18170831
You simply don't remember how little 1k known words is. That page would still look like a bunch of squiggles for anyone with just 1k, I'm sure the 1k known words guy would agree with me on this,

>>18170855
Different anon, wasn't sure what that meant until I read 面接, that made it pretty clear. More context as to who that guy is and why he's sitting there would've probably made it even clearer.
But I wouldn't call myself a total beginner.

>drilling core2k

If the words are so common, you should be seeing them all the time while reading, no need to have Anki cards for them.

>>18170855
There were pages before that, it's not the start of the story

>>18170772
I didn't realize I was implying that reading was a tool to "test myself" but that's not what I meant at all and isn't my view on reading whatsoever; so maybe my post was worded poorly.

I absolutely think that reading is a way to expand my general knowledge of the language because it lets you see words used in various contexts, and different ways words might interact or be used in actual japanese.

I simply don't think my level of vocab, or kanji knowledge is high enough to get that out of reading yet. Because the process of reading would ultimately boil down looking up 9 out of every 10 words (and even that is being generous) - it would be very slow and tedious and detract from the other benefits of reading.

So no I don't view reading as a "test", I just don't see how reading would be time efficiently spent, when I can only actually "read" a maximum of 250-300 words. Other responses I've seen around DJT seem to support my mindset toward reading where its not as valuable super early into the learning process, and is significantly more effective after you have a strong base of vocab and grammar understanding.

But to answer your question, yes this is my first time learning the language.

>>18170865
>But I wouldn't call myself a total beginner.
Which is my point entirely. We were talking about someone with only 1k vocab, which is nothing.
>>18170879
I get that, 1k still isn't enough. it's not enough content words, and more importantly, it isn't enough grammatical words to make sense of things.

>>18170868
Yeah it's doable by reading, but it's a lot longer and more tedious reading when you have to look up 9 out of every 10 word to make sense of things. You might as well do a bit of Anki, then come back and read it smoothly. You need to work off of a base at least, you guys are talking like you start off at intermediate level. It's a common problem, advanced learners are shit to give advice to beginners because they forgot what it's like being one.

>>18170911
You are wrong, because I know exactly the issues beginners have!
Buy Japanese from Zero, great book.

>>18170864
im at 2k and cant read most of the words with kanji

>>18170855
不 negation prefix, top 200 vocabulary
採用 no certainty at the time but knew it ended in something that has to do with utility, use, etc. that shows up all the time in top 1000 words. The first kanji looks a lot like 探, from the top 500 word 探す, so it should imply that it's very vaguely related to searching. But it's not the same kanji, and I knew that, so it had to only be tangentially related. Taking something up? Being useful? Applying yourself?
確実 knowing reality/making confirmation/having certainty, top 1500 vocabulary frequency wise but it's made of kanji that have obvious uses in very common grammatical phrases that you will certainly learn before reading if you're not using garbage resources (確かに, 実は) and its meaning and reading reflect those common uses of its kanji exactly.

Like >>18170865 said the meaning of the phrase as a whole was confirmed by the time I got to 面接 again. Not because I needed the context that it was a 面接 (that was clear from earlier pages) but because I needed something to imply that the five-kanji compound was related to the 面接 directly.

>>18170864
I read this very page when I had only seen like 1300 words in Anki so far. After a few pages in I realized it might be hard to find pirated (I was using a preview site) so I switched to something in the CoR.

>>18170879
Yeah, I forgot to describe the context, sorry. Basically this little girl is trying to get a job and talks about being the maou and wanting seifuku. Then the guy's monologue picks up for real on this page.

>>18170920
go back to Redd*t you goddamned shills

>>18170928
>(確かに, 実は) and its meaning and reading reflect those common uses of its kanji exactly.
Sorry, meant to refer to 確認 here too.

>>18170928
>不 negation prefix, top 200 vocabulary採用 no certainty at the time but knew it ended in something that has to do with utility, use, etc. that shows up all the time in top 1000 words. The first kanji looks a lot like 探, from the top 500 word 探す, so it should imply that it's very vaguely related to searching. But it's not the same kanji, and I knew that, so it had to only be tangentially related. Taking something up? Being useful? Applying yourself?確実 knowing reality/making confirmation/having certainty, top 1500 vocabulary frequency wise but it's made of kanji that have obvious uses in very common grammatical phrases that you will certainly learn before reading if you're not using garbage resources (確かに, 実は) and its meaning and reading reflect those common uses of its kanji exactly.
You see all this bullshit you posted? This is what I mean, imagine having to reason everything out like that 9 words out of 10. It's absolutely retarded and time consuming. Might as well do more Anki and come back later. Hell that time would be better spend reading grammar ressources. What you're doing is analysing roughly, and maybe even wrongly guessing meaning. It's pants on head retarded.

>>18170955
I'm describing ~why~ I understood it, not my thought process when I ran into it, anon. Work on your English reading comprehension.

At this point I should probably just delete sakubi before one of the people that argue about it whenever its name comes up breaks and kills themselves. I mean it's so bad that they're projecting it onto unrelated shit like the alternative guide and >>18170688.

If crazy people didn't fall for trollbait so easily I wouldn't really care but I'm seriously worried that they might kill themselves or something. It's probably for the best if someone else throws it up on a different website somewhere, I don't even really touch anything DJT related, all I do these days is read and post memes.

Nothing wrong with Tae Kim's grammar guide btw. I was originally just going to take it and put it all on a single page with some changes to the two or three bad explanations, but I gave up after a couple days. (I'm aware of the outdated single-page version. It's outdated.)

>>18170962
As a beginner, you would have to go through this ''why'' process in your head, so either way it's not something you should recommend to beginners. The fucking 1k guy agreed with me, I don't see why you're still arguing your bullshit. Is learning Japanese your secret club and you're simply trying to discourage people so that they give up? It certainly seems so with what you're going on about here.

tbqh I don't even get the "read more" meme to new learners
Even if I load up a game or something with japanese text and try to read through it by looking up all the words and kanji I don't know it doesn't help me learn anything. At best I come away with the gist of what a particular section of text is trying to say. At worst I still have no conclusive idea what it actually means. And on top of that there's a bunch of other random shit in the mix like maybe its just a phrase or figure of speech, or slang, or made up word for the particular work and trying to commit things like this to my learning feel like they might just give bad habits or incorrect foundation.

>>18170979
Well, you're wrong, because I didn't have to go through the "why" process. I just glazed over the words, and by the time I got to 面接, I understood what was being conveyed by 不採用確実. I couldn't possibly write a dictionary definition for 不採用確実, but knowing what it conveys is all you need to learn from reading.

The guide recommends to do the 2k then go to a mining deck. It seems you guys talking about 3k disagree with this, can you explain why?

>>18170976
As long as you leave and stop pushing your shit here, Sakubi.

>>18170988
2k is an arbitrary number. The ideal point to stop memorizing shared decks is different for everybody.

>>18170992
I really don't, though.

>不採用確実

そんなことありません

あのんならうかるよ