/jp/ - Otaku Culture

i know many but only some compounds. they're a bitch. i only get to memorize the most used ones, like maybe 簡単,　残念, 全然, 駄目 or 病院.

i don't know how japs can have tons of 4-kanji compounds stuck in their heads.

>>1801038
>I'm aiming for at least 3,000

/jp/ - China/General

>>1801038
Is i necessary to learn kanji? Shouldn't one aim to learn compounds? I mean, the kanji in itself has no value for somebody who wants to read japanese.

>I wanna make Kanji my bitch.
By memorizing all of those symbols you are already Kanji's bitch.

>>1801067
>the kanji in itself has no value for somebody who wants to read japanese.

....

No, sir. Kanji will make you its bitch. It already had. And you like it.

Is it that time again?

http://www.mlcjapanese.co.jp/LevelCheck/Kanji/01.htm

>>1801067
If you learn the kanji's individual readings you can learn kanji faster. And there are one kanji nouns, and most simple verbs are a single kanji+some hiragana.
Then again, if you learn compunds it'll be easier to learn the kanji. It depends.
>>1801060
That's the amount you need to get by in Japan. There are about 2000 in the official Jōyō kanji, but you really need some more if you want to read a newspaper or anything that isn't designed to be simplistic.
And then there are name kanji too, so even 3000 isn't quite sufficient to be fluent.

>I'm aiming for at least 3,000
Aren't there "only" 1945? At least in the Japanese language?
By the way, I don't know any. I can only recognize some katakana/hiragana. Maybe if I weren't so lazy I could try studying a bit.

>>1801084

>you really need some more if you want to read a newspaper or anything that isn't designed to be simplistic.
And then there are name kanji too, so even 3000 isn't quite sufficient to be fluent.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. We'll just leave it at that bro

>>1801067
I don't see a problem with learning both, but my efforts have been more focused on individual Kanji I would say. My Kanji learning has been highly structured, I finished Heisig not that long ago and am running through a book called Kanji Odyssey 2001 right now. It teaches Kanji in related groups of 5 with 3 examples sentences each to give you the Kun and several common compounds (basically every reading of the Kanji). It can be stressful as I enter 15 sentences per day and test them two different ways, but it has really done wonders for my Japanese. I've only just finished first semester in school so obviously I do a lot of self-study.

>>1801092
>And then there are name kanji too

Normal Japanese do not always get name readings correct.

>>1801103
That's not a very good excuse to ignore them.

>>1801092
There are kanji which are no longer in everyday use, except in names. There are no official lists, I don't think , but they exist. Like 乃 is no longer used as a grammatical particle, but can occur in names.

Heisig-fag here. I really suggest you ignore anti heisig folks and at least give it good try.
I'm all the way through RTK1 and 3 on kanji.koohii.com, but the screenshot is a closer representative of the amount I can read/use I suppose.
My goal is to be able to read any arbitrary Japanese text fluently.

>>1801060
Ever tried to read an actual Japanese book? Authors use shit tons of kanji outside of the jouyou list. Most Japanese can read ~3500, depending on high school/college.

>>1801113
I didn't say you should ignore them. Most kanji used in names are common ones anyhow, it's the reading that at times becomes arbitrary.

My point in the fact that Japanese sometimes do not know how to read name kanji is, in that regard, even native speakers are not fluent.

>>1801126
Awesome progress bro. I don't really plan to do RTK3 as I figured it would be easy enough to pick them up along the way, what do you think? What motivated you to do 3?

>>1801139
I did it because I was bored over a break, and figured it couldn't hurt :/

Before I did it I was picking them along the way like you plan to do. That seems to work fine too, though I having the structure of RTK3 might be a little faster, and having it under your belt makes reading books easier.

Guys, what deck or whatever it's called do you use for anki? There's a goddamn million.

>>1801082
1100 - 1200 characters, according to that site.

I don't know if that's a low estimate or a high one.

>>1801164
I've finished the first Heisig book, but the second's layout is just plain intimidating. Should I just go at it anyhow? Any tips?

Kinda been at a standstill for a while, Japanese-wise.

>>1801169
1801126 here
I made my own deck, using sentences mostly from various media and some from J-J dictionaries (ala alljapaneseallthetime.com). Before I started using Anki I had some Japanese experience in high school, so I never really used any 'beginner' sources.

I think there's decks for the example sentences in guidetojapanese.com and Kanji Odessy 2001 floating around, though I could be wrong, try those.

>>1801169
1801126 here
I made my own deck, using sentences mostly from various media and some from J-J dictionaries (ala alljapaneseallthetime.com). Before I started using Anki I had some Japanese experience in high school, so I never really used any 'beginner' sources.

I think there's decks for the example sentences in guidetojapanese.com and Kanji Odessy 2001 floating around, though I could be wrong, try those?

>>1801180
don't do the second book, read some of Tae Kim's grammar guide and jump right into Kanji Odyssey 2001. It will be HARD at first if you didn't know any grammar or kana but it will get easier. Order the books and get the spreadsheets off torrent sites or from the dudes on Kanjikoohu, it's time to really start learning Japanese after you finish RTK1

Kanji is my nemesis. I've still not figured out how to learn them well.

The only ones who seem to stay in memory are the ones I encounter often and in context.

Which reminds me that I should use the extension that pops in kanji at the beginning of each word more often.

>>1801180
Yeah, RTK2 is awkward. I ignored it

Listen to:
>>1801190

>>1801192
Try Heisig

kanji.koohii.com

http://www.amazon.com/Remembering-Kanji-Vol-Complete-Characters/dp/0824831659/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF
8&s=books&qid=1229911008&sr=8-1

Any chance someone might upload that Kanji Odyssey 2001 on Rapidshare or something?

If not, it's fine. It'll just be a while until I'm able to torrent again.

>>1801192
I don't like learning kanji either. And yes, they are far easier to remember in context, which is why I decided not to learn single kanji and their readings.

>>1801219
I'm torrenting now. I'll upload it to Rapidshare once it's finished.

>>1801219
http://www.mediafire.com/?jymmekzd2aw this one is good enough but I would recommend getting an updated version from the group who puts them to together when you can because there are lots of small errors in some places but they are easy to spot if you're properly checking the sentences as you enter them (I used rikaichan to do this)

>>1801227
Cheers man.

I don't get how an audio CD helps with kanji though. Anyone want to explain that?

>>1801233
it's a two volume book set, the audio CD is supplementary

漢字は難しい！

>>1801236
i would really recommend getting the books, they are quite pretty and helpful, with just the spreadsheet you won't know exactly what it's trying to teach you

>>1801084
The Jōyō kanji (1945 now, will increase by about 186 in 2009) set provides you with a solid set of kanji, enough to get by with if you have a good grasp of the vocabulary as well. After that, just learning new characters when you encounter them is probably the best way to go. Read a newspaper article and see if you can read every word and compound (excluding names).


>>1801103
The names of people younger than 25 tend to use confusing and rare readings quite often. For personal names, the Japanese too have a hard time reading them. It's not much of a problem since most social interaction uses the family name exclusively, which usually can be read a lot easier.

>>1801222
I agree that learning kanji and vocabulary is easier in context, but you are learning the verbs that use a single kanji I hope?

耕す・患う・欺く・潔く

These kind of verbs aren't so common you'll see them every day, but they are used. The nice thing about these words is that when you know their meaning (and thus the kanji's meaning) you can easily understand the gist of compound words you haven't encountered before, as long as you know the kanji. Also, conversation becomes easier on you if you are familiar with these kun-readings as well as the on-readings mostly used in compound verbs and nouns.

>>1801082
1200-1300

; ;

but i didnt include kanjis that im not really sure about the reading

>>1801082
50.

I'm actually proud of myself for knowing this much. Go me.

>>1801296
My wild guesses:
耕す Toil (the land) .
患う Foolish (or something like that) .
欺く Lie .
潔く Clean.

>>1801082
heh it says i know 170

>>1801537
>耕す Toil (the land) .
Correct.

>患う Foolish (or something like that) .
Actually, it means "to be ill / fall ill" or "suffer from (a sickness)"

>欺く Lie .
Close. Actual meaning: "to fool, trick, hoodwink, deceive, etc."

>潔く Clean.
This one isn't a verb actually, it's the adverbial form of the adjective 潔い （いさぎよい）. Its meaning is "gracefully / readily". The adjective itself can mean "pure, clean, upright" though.

According to my SRS I'm at 886 kanji memorized. I can't wait to be done with RTK1, the learning experience really takes off after that.

Fuck, my level is so low.

700-800

>>1801595
If I knew more classical Chinese I bet I would've nailed them all.

1300-1400

4th year of ba japanese here.

漢字嫌い

1000-1100
3 years of japanese at university + 3 months course in Japan. I've been slacking off lately though, so it should be somewhat higher than that. I saw kanji I already studied but couldn't remember the reading for the life of me.

>>1803130
also, I'm still slow as fuck reading VN. For intermediate level anons, when playing do you just skip kanjis you can't read in a sentence or do you try to get the meaning of everything with a dictionary?

So has anyone got a version of the KO sentences that are already checked for errors?

I only know about 100 Kanji with most of their readings, meanings and the stroke order. I also know quite a few compounds within those 100 kanji, but I hardly make progress because I'm such a lazy fuck and I'm starting to forget recently learned stuff pretty fast.
Can anyone share a good anki deck for basic kanji?

I'm using a book that has a similar layout like >>1801255.

here fucking jap

I wanna learn what I feel I need to learn as I go along. If you want to get better at English, you don't find a dictionary and try to memorize words, you read a well-written book or something.

Why do you wanna learn japanese?

>>1803997

Entertainment content is huge. I already know Spanish (and by 'know' I mean formal also) and I like reading stuff in Spanish but I don't really find much stuff I want to read unlike Japanese.

Honestly, my desire started with wanting to read 俺は猫 and then ran into anime, manga and VNs along the way.

But then again, I've always been interested in languages and semantics and I do have a list of the languages I want to learn. Sadly, no time to learn them ;_;

>>1803194
Somewhat different question but kind of still related.

I downloaded a deck for anki, but it shows this English word, and then I will have to guess what it looks like in Japanesan Kanji. But, what the fuck, I can't learn shit like that.

For me, learning a language is thinking that language. English isn't my native language but I sure as hell don't translate all that shit back to my native one, English feels almost as normal as when I speak my own language.

Even if this shit was in my own language, it wouldn't work. So is there a deck that shows kanji, or kana or whatever the fuck, I don't care, and lets me guess it's meaning? Or am I learning this shit the wrong way? Also, this is the first time using flashcards for me. Since you guys were so full of them, I thought I'd at least had to try them out, but shits not working so far.

>>1805087

Oh god, I have this problem occasionally but it's more on the explanation side of things. Like if I learn stuff in one language I have trouble explaining it in another.
A gigantic pain when it comes to technical terms and ideologies.

>>1805087
you can reverse the cards

>>1805117
>>1805087
Protip: Anki ist NOT for learning new stuff, but to keep the shit you have learned recently in your memory. It's pretty effective since you only get asked for stuff in your long-term memory every few months or weeks.

>>1805190
So how the fuck do you use this shit? Seriously, I never know of them flashcards until I came across them some 2 years ago and thought they were pretty useless. But everybody seems to love them, at least, in the US they're fucking popular as far as I've noticed.

So if you want to use this shit then what? How the fuck do I go about it? This shit is retarded. If I already know that shit, why do I want to look at cards seeing crap I already know?

It seems that if you just read Japanese beginner shit, you'll keep that shit in your head pretty easily, but if someone wants to learn kanji by memorizing random chicken shit, holy fuck, that blows my mind.

>>1805159
How does one go about doing that? I've looked all over and I can't find that shit. Or maybe, I really think anki has the most retarded GUI I've seen in some time.

>>1805218
You can manually do it. Like copy and paste and reverse the answers. I'm sure there is another way but I don't know go ask at the anki forums

>>1803168
Depends. Sometimes I just want my porn, sometimes I take the time to read fully everything.

>>1805211
>If I already know that shit, why do I want to look at cards seeing crap I already know?
Because in an environment where you aren't constantly using the language, you're prone to forget.

>>1805046
Did you mean 吾輩は猫である by Souseki?

>>1805873

That tells you how long it's been since I heard the synopsis.

㲽

>Try Heisig

I've done some just to check the method and it seems very hit and miss. Some stories help, some doesn't do anything to me. And in the end I'll still get stuck on the kanjis while reading since I can't pronounce them.

I don't like reading "わたしはschoolのgardenでresting" just because I couldn't read the kanji but I knew the meaning.

It is the same with English. I read it in English, not directly translated to my own language.

I just wish more things offered furigana along with the kanji. At least I can do both plugins so every word start with a kanji with the reading attached to it. Should work wonders if I ever remember to use them.