/jp/ - Otaku Culture

かさとかいみないあめ

１５０ミリくらい
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbSNR7YTjmc

>>17824757
あきらかに特別な気分じゃねー

>>17824770
ブラすけほうだいだった

For those who do sentence decks, where do you get your sentences from and what do you put on the backs of your cards?

にほんでトリックオアトリートして

ハイエースされた子がいるって

さいきんちあんわるい

ことなんかどうでもよくなっちゃうんじゃないかって
Could someone give me a hand with this. I feel like I've heard it in an anime before and it was something like "didn't know what to think", "didn't know what I wanted" or "didn't care about me" but I'm having a hell of a time trying to break it up and look the parts up to confirm it.

>>17824958
ことなんか
>どうでもよく
なっちゃう
>んじゃないか
って

>>17824958
╰(ʃ ╯

>>17824907
>ちあんわるい
般若かぶって十手を持ったり警邏する

>>17824958
I don't know the whole situation but it sounds like "I think I don't care such a thing."

>>17824907
変態によるトリック返し

>>17825022
Yeah after trying to break it up with using what >>17824990 gave me that's what I came to. I'm pretty sure in the full sentence she's basically saying something to the effect of "I didn't care [about what you were doing], or so I thought."
I appreciate the help.

>>17824869
Jisho, which also gives you the translations.

I decided to start learning hiragana. Got the first vowels + s and k down, doing t now. Using Tofugu, don't remember where i saw it, but it has pronunciation and pictures for my autistic brain.

>>17825059
If you can't learn hiragana in a week with next to no efforts, your chances of learning japanese are nil

>>17825026
トリックオアトリートで

ハイエースは

つまらないしゃれにもなりませんことよ

>>17825062
Rubbish, it'll just be harder for him

So what's the くらい here supposed to mean

>>17824728
appropriate OP

>>17825082
So he'll quit

>>17825128
a small child like yotsuba

>>17825133

>>17825062
I started last night, so it's only around 2 hours~ of effort so far. I doubt it'll take me more than a week for just hiragana. I'm not rushing or anything, i did get stuck on getting さ and す right, but that's the only real hiccup besides the usual repetition and remembering.

>>17825082
What did he mean by this?

>>17825168
>What did he mean by this?

>>17825171
Is he right though? If i don't learn hiragana i may as well give up japanese?

>>17825157
にがいのまずいよね

>>17825181
Maybe you don't HAVE to do it in a week (they really aren't difficult though so it shouldn't take much longer than 2 weeks at most) but if you don't learn kana (not just hiragana) then yes, you're fucked.
What you're asking is basically if you can learn English without learning half the alphabet.

>>17825202
I didn't mean if i don't learn hiragana in it's entirety, i meant in a week like that one anon said. I have enough sense to realize i can't learn japanese without hiragana and katakana

>>17825205
If it takes you longer than a week or two then that means either you're a really slow learner or you're not putting enough time and effort into it.
If you learn kana and then proceed to learn only a handful of new words (and that means not just kana-only words) then you'll never learn Japanese.

A handful of new words per day, that is.
No, you don't need to Ankidrone and set the number of new words per day as high as possible, but if you're lazy just the same and just read a few pages of material each day then you're not gonna get anywhere.

honestly if you can't learn all hiragana in less than 30 minutes you're a failure at life and should kill yourself

>>17825229
That depends entirely on the person.

ロボは人間じゃない
なのも人間じゃない

>>17825252
手前は人間じゃない

>>17825286
人間だよ
CAPTCHAを解きのは問題がない

心臓がドキドキしとるんなのに人間の心があらへんので人間じゃないやろ
肉体より魂は大事やん

>>17825375
なのは魂が本当にある？

>>17825387
知らん
魂あるらしいやけどね

Reading through Amane's route in Flyable Heart. Is Amane's brother a homo?

>俺はねー。晶くんの事、すごく気にいってるんだよ。好きなの。

That goes beyond just liking someone as a friend, right?

>>17825462
>That goes beyond just liking someone as a friend, right?
whats not to like about our plucky MC

>>17825056
You shouldn't use Jisho. http://www.manythings.org/corpus/warningtatoeba.html

So I downloaded the kangxi radical deck for anki, what am I actually meant to be doing?
Do I need to memorize the readings for the radicals?

>>17825578
>So I downloaded the kangxi radical deck for anki, what am I actually meant to be doing?
Teaching your brain that kanji aren't scribbles through familiarizing yourself with radicals, and learning how to use Anki. If you already don't see kanji as scribbles and do know how to use Anki, you have no particular reason to use a radical deck.
>Do I need to memorize the readings for the radicals?
They're not regular enough. If you want you can find a table of regular on'yomi groups and make flashcards out of it.

>>17825578
The meanings.

日本語を学びたいけどどこでどうやって始まるんだろう

>>17825733
ガイドを読め

Is this still japanese? Found this while browsing pixiv, but I can't find any kana in the text

>>17825757
Yes it is. In fact N1 doesn't have any kana.

>>17825757
Just dismiss it as chinese.

>>17825764
So is this like a dialect? Or more like a different way of reading?

>>17825782
its chinese bro

>>17825757
Japanese without kana is chinese

Leech hall of shame/fame updated. I followed the Jisho stroke order diagrams for each kanji and I haven't really practised writing kanji besides this, so feel free to berate me for any minor or grave mistakes I have made. While writing the kanji 説, I found it weird that the diagram had this slanted top line in the radical(?) 言. Is this some handwriting-exclusive peculiarity, or was the diagram teaching me some Chinese shit there?

>>17825926
Looks like you're trying too hard to write kanji cleanly but aside from that it's fine. You're even using the right character forms for handwriting, though that's only because kanjivg (jisho's source for kanji stroke animation data) does.

>>17825940
>You're even using the right character forms for handwriting
Is there any notes on correct handwriting for primitives? I'm usually just copying computer fonts, while looking up the correct stroke order.

>>17826015
Display fonts add extra details to certain component shapes, like the "thread"/"string" one, and the 良 one, among others. These details make the characters look like they have more strokes. They're placed in display fonts because they reflect literal side-swing flair that good calligraphers can get out of those strokes when writing with a brush. You correctly didn't add those details to the handwritten characters.

>>17826034
He's not me. I didn't copy display fonts because I've already heard that they're different.

>>17826062
Oh, okay. Basically you should only copy stroke order things or kaisho/kyoukasho fonts.

Are there any must-have Iphone apps for learning?

>>17825926
>While writing the kanji 説, I found it weird that the diagram had this slanted top line in the radical(?) 言. Is this some handwriting-exclusive peculiarity, or was the diagram teaching me some Chinese shit there?
Computer fonts don't always accurately reflect how kanji are supposed to be written. The same thing can be said for the Latin alphabet. Have you ever met anyone who writes "a" like it appears on a computer?

This extends to hiragana as well, by the way. さ and き are displayed contrary to how they're actually written in many fonts (さ should be 3 strokes while き should be 4 strokes, but in many fonts they appear as 2 and 3 stroke characters respectively).

>>17826081
no

>>17826081
Anki one.

>>17826081
yea line

>>17826034
Is it that much of a problem if I write the first stroke of 糸 as two strokes to make the second line start before the end of the first one, as in the screen font? Provided I count them as one for all the look-up purposes. Technically, I write first three strokes of 糸 shape in two "actual" strokes anyway, one for first two lines and one for the rest of them. I don't think it really matters as long as my handwriting resembles the form in question

>>17826105
It's like writing serifs into normal handwriting. Nobody will object to its validity or understandability, but it's very strange.

>>17826116
I see, thanks. I'm already learning japanese, it should be fine to let my autism spill a bit more.

>>17826125
can you say for sure this isnt you
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKg2ZzPKl2M

I know there's a bunch of books available but what would you guys recommend as the go-to beginner gramar book? Is it still Genki?

I went through Tae Kim a while back and started the Core 2k/6k (got to around 800 mature Kanji) and left it for a few months because shit happened and now I plan to go back into it but I realized I forgot a lot from where I am with the deck.

Sorry for the blog post

>>17826172
Stay away from textbooks. Just pick up every online grammar guide and finish whichever one you prefer.

>>17826172
If you do Genki, you should follow it on with "An Integrated Approach to Intermediate Japanese". Genki doesn't cover some stuff that Tae Kim's guide does, but I think everything it misses is covered in that book.

>>17826182
Nothing wrong with textbooks so long as you ignore the dumb grammar exercises and all the other waste of time nonsense.

>>17826172
You reached the point where the knowledge is inside you and you stopped.
Now, that knowledge is STILL inside you, just hidden. There is no reason for textbooks at this moment, because its already there.

>>17826194
That's the problem. The exercises are dumb, but they go out of their way to cut down on lesson space by moving things into exercises. There are many basic grammar points that Genki never teaches directly in lessons, like から, only teaching them in exercises.

>>17826196
If he's only read it once several months ago and never actually put the knowledge into practice, he's probably forgotten most of it for good.

A good idea would be to go straight to the example sentences for any given section and see if he can understand them. If he can, he can probably skip that section. If not, then he should probably re-read it.

Does anyone have experience with japanese MMORPGs?

>>17825059
Pronunciation is important to get exposed to early. Looks like they leave out something that a lot of people misunderstand for months though, ん is not only n, it's also ŋ (ng), N (a nasally noise), and m, depending mostly on what follows it.
It's also pretty common to rely on mnemonics/stories, particularly for kanji, which appear to be at the heart of their pictures for kana.
>>17825205
If it takes longer than a week, you need to seriously figure out what the biggest barrier with your method is if you want to have any hope to get to a reasonable level in less than the "10 years" meme. That's less than 10 new items a day, a pretty standard minimum. Maybe look at what other successful learners are doing, though it's very hard to judge if they're successful when you can't tell if they're good or only know broken foreigner Japanese, and you will find a lot of bad advice, so you need to think about it and try some things out.
>>17825578
Memorize a keyword for each radical. They are NOT meanings, and they don't have readings unless they are also kanji by themselves. You will use them to build mnemonics for each kanji based on the components inside of them. Note also that kangxi radicals are generally considered insufficient by themselves, as there are some repeated components and larger compounds in kanji which are not considered "radicals" (which are a little bit different than how we discuss them as components) but are just as useful for breaking down kanji into memorable pieces. Also, learning to see kanji as more than 20 random strokes, as >>17825586 said.
>>17826105
This may be of no concern to you, but it will probably impact handwriting recognition for looking up kanji more than simple mixed up stroke order. I apparently don't have handwriting recognition installed at the moment, so I can't test quickly, but pic related is a shitty javascript app.

>>17826279
It's clearly too early for me, here's a fixed and downscaled image.

>>17826296
You could just use google translate which is better

>>17825462
I don't think so. He probably wants you to become his brother.

>>17826279
>pic related is a shitty javascript app.
Just curious, if say it's shitty, then what's a good app? I've only used the built-in handwriting recognition of MS IME and Google IME and I have to say that that application far surpasses both, especially Google IME. The latter, very suspiciously, recognizes kanji with 阝 (こざとへん) better (or only) if you draw it in 2 strokes - say whaaaat.

>>17826334
The google IME handwriting is garbage, but the google translate handwriting is great.

>>17826310
>h
wat

>>17826334
What >>17826337 said. Google Translate's handwriting recognition is second to none.

>>17826172
>left it for a few months because shit happened and now I plan to go back into it but I realized I forgot a lot from where I am with the deck.
If you don't know where to start, I can't say this is from experience, but after turning off new cards consider dropping your leech threshold and making sure auto-suspend leeches is on. Then, when reviews are under control, start un-suspending for "new" cards until they're all active. If you have some existing leeches that are actually problem cards, you may want to tag them so they stay separate and you can consider remaking them.
>>17826310
>h
Neural nets. You're right though.
>>17826334
I can't say I've used anything a whole lot. As far as I'm aware, 阝 is 2 strokes in Chinese, and while it's classified as 3 strokes in Japanese, it's still written without lifting the pen between the first two. I may be wrong though.

>>17824728
What kind of magic do I need to read names?

>>17826390
Memorize the kanji and readings for a couple thousand names and then you can use that to figure out the rest

>>17826296
>>17826334

kanji.sljfaq.org isn't really that shitty, it's just more strict about what you draw with what's on its database. The problem here is that kanji.sljfaq.org is great at looking ahead but not joining/ignoring strokes. Basically it just looks if your strokes match kanjiVG's data.

Google Translate's probably also compare the picture the drawing with other handwritten forms while ignoring stroke count/order which is why it's much more lenient with inputs

>>17826390
振り仮名

>>17826390
There's a reason why Japanese forms ask for name readings in hiragana alongside with names in kanji. In other words, in general it's impossible to read names.

But like everything, exposure to common names will eventually make your brain connect the dots and guess most names correctly.

>>17826337
>>17826371
>>17826415
Noted.

>>17826374
Well, this page
http://kanji.jitenon.jp/kanjip/7909.html
says three strokes, as this page also shows:
https://kakijun.jp/page/U_961D200.html

so I always thought that that was the only way of doing it.

On the subject of handwriting and serifs, is there a good penji font for reference to add to my cards perhaps? Both regularity (not too messy or unusual) and completeness (at least jouyou kanji but preferably 3000+) would be great, if such a font exists. Most fonts I found from some quick googling had no information about their completeness.

Can someone help me translate the third line on this page?

>>17826505
珍しい料理に魚たちの踊り。

>>17826505
its an "A and B" kinda thing.

>>17826505
That に is basically "and" when translating that sentence

>>17826296
So I'm learning the readings for radicals that exist as kanji on their own, and not worrying too much about the ones used to create kanji, that cant be used themself?

>>17826521
You're still confused. Just want you to know.

>>17826510
>>17826512
>>17826516
So something like "Unusual cuisine and a dance of fishes"?

Thanks for the help

>>17826456
I misread the post about stroke order cus I'm a retard. A better response is this:

it's weird that a Japanese input recognition program would use nonstandard stroke count. While 阝 is just something I managed to figure out when I was playing with changing things up to hopefully get it to recognize a simple kanji, in other cases it doesn't recognize the kanji at all, probably requiring very specific proportions or alterations that I don't care about. Well, Google IME handwriting recognition sucks, everyone gets it already.

Do you guys switch books often or do you actually finish them, even if you get bored?
t. can't finish anything

>>17826594
Why would you not finish anything?
But well, you might as well stop learning japanese now because you will not finish it either.

>>17826505
I've had this exact question answered before in this thread.

>>17826595
>Why would you not finish anything?
Because I get bored of it. Especially with longer materials such as novels or visual novels.

>>17826594
I switch around between news and manga.

>>17826607
I drop tons of boring shit in both Japanese and English. Time spent reading shitty books is time spent not reading good ones. If you're not compelled by anything at all you might have a problem.

So, Duolingo's Japanese desktop version is out, and it's looking like a pretty decent beginner resouce. Maybe the guide should be updated to reflect that.

>>17826521
Sure, but learning readings alone is overrated in my opinion. You will pick up the only readings that matter through the vocabulary you learn. Your direct kanji study should be focused on associating both radicals and kanji with keywords, and associating kanji with mnemonics involving those keywords. In the beginning, you'll think, roughly, "women like children, 'like' is 'woman' + 'child'" 好 = 女 + 子. Some prefer "fond" over "like", and a majority of kanji are pretty impossible to associate with a single meaning, so there are rarely "correct" keywords but RTK and KLC are good guidelines (I prefer the latter). Over time the mnemonics will fade but by then the connections are already solidified and you will still remember.
>>17826561
Also consider that handwriting input is generally optimized for natives, who have writing habits that are rarely taught to foreign language learners.
>>17826594
All study, especially language learning, is about keeping it fun. That doesn't always mean finding something that is more fun. You need to learn to enjoy it, whether through mindset or through some gamification bullshit, to avoid getting burnt out on the whole learning process.

>>17826624
It's actually not.

>>17826610
>news and manga.
That's a big shift in difficulty

>>17826624
Nice try Duolingotard

Wish all these paid Duolingo shills would fuck off already.

>>17826627
Okay, feel free to name one better way for a beginner to learn how to form Japanese sentences while having them constantly checked for mistakes.

>>17826632
>>17826634
Look, more prejudiced people who haven't even tried it.

>>17826638
Duolingo is exactly the kind of resource that has to be constantly checked for mistakes. It's neither made by professional grammarians/linguists nor is it made by passionate people that want to teach as many people as possible in the best way they can.

>>17826529
Fuck off hue.

>>17826647
What?

>>17826644
Those are some pretty big assumptions you're making there. I bet you haven't even tried it.

>おまえの好みの痛みが見つかるといいな！
>見つかってたまるか

What does たまる mean here?

>>17826659
Ironic shitposting is just shitposting.

Was it the last thread with
>duolinguo
>amount of effort: insane
>time required per day: 20 min
picture?

>>17826668
>he must be shitposting because he disagrees with my ungrounded prejudices
Of course, anon, of course.

>>17826679
No, you're shitposting because you're shitposting.

It isn't that difficult to just not fucking reply.

>>17826675
Those estimates they have there are a big lie, I'll admit. You can easily spend way more time on it if you aren't very good at it and want to keep your all your skills golden.

>>17826600
Oh lol thanks for the info. I found the archive of it (#1822)

Duolingo's new Japanese course cured my dad's cancer!

>>17826697
Those are some pretty big assumptions you're making there. I bet you haven't even tried not shitposting.

>>17826664
たまるか
KireiCake
(after -te form of verb) often used to add emphasis to the preceding verb

>>17826701
Okay, when did you last try it out, Mr Japanese Pro?

>>17826857
Oh, you must've misunderstood. A month of reading, that is,having spent that much time reading. Not reading for a month, during a month. This should be obvious in retrospect, I think.

>>17826857
>tfw i can barely read よつばと！

The definition of 乗せる in core 2000 is obviously meant for 載せる, which isn't even in there.

>>17826884
DoJG doesn't have a 気 entry either.

>>17826910
Not sure. There seem to be a handful of common uses of it (like 悲しげ) which have their own dedicated entries in EDICT, but I've encountered it numerous times in Flyable Heart where there was no dedicated entry for it and tools which would normally tell you what form of a word it is (Jisho, Yomichan, etc.) didn't recognise it as being a form of any existing word.

I encountered such a case earlier today but didn't think to note it down at the time and I can't remember what it was anymore.

Ok this happens so often I just have to ask finally

What is it with rikaikun/chan/sama and fucking up? I'm sure something I'm hitting bad shortcut keys inadvertantly but I can't use the fucking thing for more than 20 minutes before the english translations stop showing up or it shows the popup in only one part of the screen, or it displays next to the cursor but showing a word far away from where the cursor is pointed.

Have to restart the browser everytime to fix it

>>17826962
Context and correct/natural usage are more valuable than a translation that will often mislead you if you adopt the context and correct usage that you know of the translated word in your native language. It's up to you to find high-quality sentences though, premade decks are generally inconsistent and so-so for anything more than kana.
Unless I misunderstood. I don't do sentences by themselves. My vocab deck is n+1 sentence comprehension.

>>17826981
just disable the hotkeys then retard

>>17826981
I switched to Yomichan a while back, but IIRC hitting "a" affects where the pop-up displays.

If it's not "a", just read the instructions that show up when you turn the add-on on and it'll tell you what all the hotkeys are.

When you put the stem of a verb together with 合う, does that mean to do something together? Like for instance, does 笑い合えた mean "laughed together?"

And can you put 合う together with the stem of any verb to achieve this effect?

>>17827179
Create new card type, select Cloze as source card type. Not all vanilla card types are created in a new profile, but they can still be used as a basis for creating a card type.
My opinion is not to rely too heavily on cloze, but use a cloze deck for words you can never remember how to write after you've already learned them. I haven't tried whole-word cloze and can't comment on that, but have heard mixed feelings. Definitely don't do fucking paragraphs if you want to get through a reasonable amount of cards.

>>17827245
You sure about that?

>>17827199
Posting from a different computer at the moment, but the only difference in the template is a .cloze { font-weight: bold; color: blue } bit in styling, and the use of {{cloze:Field Name}} in front and back. For some reason, back doesn't use {{FrontSide}}, but repeats {{cloze:Field Name}}.
It's possible that using {{cloze:Field Name}} is all that matters, or it's possible that there's a hidden setting on any card type duplicated from the original, I assume the former but haven't tested.

>>17827276
>>17827133
I always saw 合 as two or more things "meeting", like 張り合う or 合流
So 笑い合う gives me the impression of, say, two people falling in a pond and laughing at each other.

>>17827279
Thanks bud. I knew they were forming conjunctions but I didn't really have the word for it. It's been fun going back through conjunctive verbs I made into cards earlier and deleting them, cus I can tell what they are just from the composite verbs alone.

>>17827323
>>17827315
That was painfully obvious. Thanks

>>17827332

>>17827318
強い化物は弱い人間達を食べるはず

>>17827323
Is there a difference to 感じる?
Or is 感じる just used for the five senses?

>>17827332
>>17827401
>>17827338
Dont worry broanons! we shall strike down this beast know as japanese and leave no eroge unpunished!

おはようおにいちゃん

たいふういっか

>>17827385
気がする isn't about literally feeling something, it's about intuition

>>17827483
気をかんじればかめはめ波がうてたり

そらをとべたりするよ

にほんではじょうしきなんだよ

おやすみさん
明日きっと忙しくなるわ

>>17827533
You're confusing the noun "feeling" and the verb "feeling". They're used in quite different ways

>>17827596
Korean is probably easier grammatically but sort of worse in kanji/hanja. They tried to phase out hanja which killed obvious etymology of their massive number of imported Chinese words, and made synonyms an issue. I've heard a lot of claims that you still need to learn hanja (I think like 1800 instead of like 2300 kanji) to have a good working knowledge of Korean and have a better experience learning.
If you aren't joking, by the way, why? What interests you? "I'm going to learn a different east asian language instead" seems rather shallow by itself. Language learning requires a fairly deep interest.

>>17827623
No, they're not. The verb can mean the sense of touch or an emotion. The noun can only mean sense of touch unless you're being slangy with muh feels which is not standard English (yet).

>>17828072
How did grammar go? I've considered doing this however the grammar fucks me up since that's difficult to look up.

Seeing the new thread reach 200 posts within a day made be a bit excited, then I see that only 3-4 posts are actually discussing Japanese while the rest are discussing "learning" Japanese. It's a pretty sad state of affairs when the /int/ thread generates more valuable discussion than here now. What attracted all these anki retards that likely can't even read Hanahira after 3 months?

>>17828255
Congrats, you learned what happens as a result of the /jp/ thread having more people starting from scratch.

>>17828125
its not that unplausible, i guess a NEET who's also a huge weeb can do it trough sheer force of will alone

>>17828205
>the grammar fucks me up since that's difficult to look up.
https://core6000.neocities.org/hjgp/
>type it in
so difficult

>>17828255
What the fuck are you doing here expecting even intermediate discussion? Feeling smug when you can't handle monolingual discussion?

>>17828386
Think you're forgetting the value of learner's perspective that's especially beneficial for topics that natives cannot necessarily explain well.

>>17828506
Think you're forgetting that keeping a thread dedicated to even a moderate level of discussion on a tibetan fingerpainting forum is actually impossible. The breakdown of posters in every hobby general between all boards is 5% moderate to advanced learners, 25% complete beginners seeking advice who has never used google before, and 70% self-proclaimed experts with multiple years of "study" and less knowledge than would be gained from reading a single book on the subject.

>>17828654
when going through Core I just stuck to 20 a day, so you think I should just keep this with the mining deck as well?

>>17828661
I don't do sentences or audio on mining so I find I need to keep it significantly lower than what I can do on core without going nuts. One word from a core deck has 5 cards (J-written, J-spoken, J-sentence-written, J-sentence-spoken, E-written) while normally in a mining deck you'll have two (J-written, E-written) so if you stay at 20 you'll be taking in many more words per day.

>>17828626
Oh shit, the underaged poster came back. How's it going Luke?

>>17828836
>Doing 5 cards per word or even 2 is a ridiculous waste of time
I could take or leave the in-sentence stuff production and recognition sides seem worthwhile. Reverse your cards and you'll find learning it one way doesn't mean learning it the other.

>>17828847
1) you're thinking of i+1
2) there is no such thing as "the i+1 word"
3) i+1 is not a method for creating artificial study materials
http://archive.fo/MFBVP

>>17828964
1) Fair, but I've heard many people change i to n and obviously both are used pretty interchangeably for the same purposes elsewhere.
2) I said "the +1 word", which is a term that I invented for the purpose of that paragraph because the meaning is self-explanatory.
3) It wasn't originally, it is now, is this the first time you're hearing of it or are you suggesting that something the author of the input hypothesis did not prescribe is invalid?

>>17828971
>It wasn't originally, it is now
It's not and or never will be. Read the paper. i+1 is a property of comprehensible input. Anything else is specifically not i+1 not even if you change the letter. In addition, "1" doesn't mean individual words or grammar points or anything so trivial, it refers to individual progressions in acquiring individual arbitrary language features of any kind.

>>17829011
I've read the paper. What I've described isn't a fucking distilled formula of perfect language acquisition according to the paper, it's a method of generating useful sentence cards for vocabulary that can easily coincide with the originally described concept occurring naturally. I'm so sorry that it offends you that some asshole named it after the the concept in the paper and it has caught on in a small crowd. It's not like a name that is a short algebraic expression could ever appropriately describe two different things.

>>17829039
is this the power of 100IQ?

>>17829052
>ローマ字

>>17829038
>that some asshole named it after the the concept in the paper
Can you read? I can't type, but I admit that.
Why do you care so much? You clearly think that the method is bad, but all you can do is cry that it's not what Krashen wrote. I haven't called it science either, it's a fucking method, like all of this other unproven bullshit that we do with card choice in Anki. It's not completely fucking stupid, so it's worth discussing, and I'm not going to invent a different name for it than what others have called it just because it offends your sensibilities.
Sentence cards. Vocab through sentences. One vocab per card. Don't make sentences have extraneous shit distracting you from the vocab and basic usage context. n+1/i+1 is shorter. In fact, I've heard n+1 more than i+1 in this context, so maybe some other asshole decided to push a different name just for you! I like n better than i as a variable letter anyway, but I really don't give a shit. Consider fucking off if you have nothing of value to say.

イチかバチか...食うか食われるのか
パンチラ そしれめでたしめでたし

ダュオリンゴを使うている人はいますか？

>>17829127
10000 hours of anime or no fluency

>>17829196

You'll certainly be fluent in anime

>>17829214

At 3 months you should probably be able to 'read' hanahira by essentially translating in place by means of a dictionary and grammar dictionary. That isn't really reading, but it is an important and rewarding step towards being able to read hanahira. After you 'read' hanahira this way, you can go back and read it again for real.

Then you can try and read something else and essentially do the same thing because of how fucked Pareto distributions truly are. Do that ten more times and you'll be able to actually read pretty much anything in that medium.

>>17829352
a raw understanding of all the grammar, core 2k completed and HRTK done?

>>17829343
In three months, if you're diligent enough, you should be able to get to the point where
- You've finished a grammar guide
- Did an unspecified number of words in Core and then dropped it and started mining
- Finished reading Hanahira/x volumes of Yotsuba (this is the barest minimum I'm talking about)
- No longer argue about learning methods in this thread, and you start to have less and less questions
- Started reading something ambitious, like a regular-length VN, an LN, a manga with uncommon vocab, etc. (anything that's a step up from the oft-recommended baby stuff that /int/sters get stuck on, and of course it should be Compelling)

I think this is a realistic goal if you study every day. If you're really motivated, you can surpass these easily. The important thing is to keep moving forward in whatever you start doing, and at whatever stage you are.

How important is learning to handwrite when just starting out learning Japanese?

>>17829424
Are flash cards good for kanji?

>>17829415
Try lurking the LN thread, checking the DJT Reading List, the DJT Library, checking those Kono raito noberu ga sugoi! lists, etc.

>>17826083
り confuses the shit outta me

>>17829549
>be extremely strict towards my recognition of words
the fact you weren't doing that before means you were only cheating yourself to improve your stats
and that does make you look pretty foolish

>>17829565
I read it because the characters have well-drawn boobs.

>>17827296
Thank you very much!
I got to test it and went into :Card types: and were about to add your specs but when I clicked :Add: there was actually a template for "Cloze" cards so it wasn't necessary. I thought since I deleted it that it was completely deleted, but seems like it was only deleted from the list of types.

So how long did it take you guys to finish your manga/visual novel when you first started mining? I'm about to start doing it, but i've heard it can take nearly half a year of mining every day to finish a 10-30 hour VN

>>17829653
vocab courses in memrise for yotsubato stop counting at 3900+- , im aware is not a final number, but its a good approximation.

>>17829672
I lied by the way. My first VN was Hanahira, and I read that one much-much slower. I'm grateful that an anon called me out on my slow pace, otherwise I'd still be reading it. Axanael was easier, I no longer had to carefully analyze each and every sentence to extricate its meaning.
>>17829676
Not that guy, but in 3 months that's a very easy goal. Possible in 30 minutes a day (or ~70 if you do Anki as well).

>>17829715
I think the chart that says "any SoL nukige" is probably the one you should follow. Just pick something with nice art, or whatever piques your curiosity.

>>17829663
took me fucking ages for flyable heart, at 1.5 average hours per day, probably well over 2 months.
Fureraba was done in less than a month I think
Hard to track really, i should probablly install http://strlen.com/procrastitracker/

さかだちしたら

つぶれて

くびぐねった

いたい

>>17829785
oh i'm actually considering doing flyable heart
do you think its worth doing?
also, since you finished it, can you read other novels quicker?

>>17829846
>攻略
are using these considered cheating? How are you meant to understand sentences without capturing the kanji you don't know?

>>17829820
キン肉マンの真似なんてするなよ

>>17829860
oh
>strategy guide
for yomichan showed it as "capture" and I assumed you were saying text hookers were cheating

みんなさん、おはよう〜
元気ですか?

>>17829907
おはよさん
ぼちぼちでんな

>>17829907
何がおはようじゃ
こっちは夜じゃい

>>17829931
早く良くなってね!
>>17829939
ここでそれは日です〜

Is there any difference between ている/てはいる, てくれる/てはくれる, and so on?

もうハロウィンか
また町中に阿保どもがうろうろするかと思うと気が滅入るわ

>>17829937
Thanks, that makes sense. I was wondering whose legs その足 was referring to.

>>17830056
That was a tricky one for me as well. Also, I haven't heard of the word called 釜蓋朔日 so I needed to google that word.

>>17830101
外国人のコスプレイヤーもいたよ
見た目はひどかったけど

コスプレはきほんだけど

コスのじさくは応用だとおもう

>>17830109
やっぱな
こっちのコスプレはたくさんお金に入れたし顔も隠れとるし、ほんでかっこいいやん

>>17830133
こっちってどっちのことよ？

>>17830148
つまり僕のことやん
アカンのん？

>>17829064
>like all of this other unproven bullshit that we do with card choice in Anki
Most of the "shit" involved with Anki is actually proven.
>I'm not going to invent a different name for it than what others have called it just because it offends your sensibilities.
It doesn't offend my sensibilities, it actively prevents people from understanding what i+1 actually is.
>Sentence cards. Vocab through sentences. One vocab per card. Don't make sentences have extraneous shit distracting you from the vocab and basic usage context.
Iterative sentence cards. Done. Was that so hard?
>In fact, I've heard n+1 more than i+1 in this context, so maybe some other asshole decided to push a different name just for you!
The i in i+1 is arbitrary and can be anything, including n.
>Consider fucking off if you have nothing of value to say.
You don't have anything valuable to say.

>>17828602
What do you do if a J-J definition has a word you don't know in it?

>>17830204
まぁせやけどつまらんちゃう？
僕って普通すぎてワシってまだ若すぎて困っちゃうやん
相応しい代名詞を見つけんとアカンわ

>>17830235
ワイでええやろ

>>17830300
そんなこと言ったら事実上多用される一人称なんて私僕俺の三つしかないじゃん
この三つ以外の一人称使ってる日本人見たことないわ

>>17830306
ワイに何て言うてほしいんや？

>>17830315
Very helpful thanks.

>>17830312
確かにせやな...
じゃ関西弁テーマのためでワイに行くでんな
けどそれより公式なときより「私」を使う男おるんかよ

>>17830324
大草高原生えるわｗ

>>17830354
たい is used for things that people want themselves to do

>>17830354
Surely you jest.

>>17830354
Is this Japanese?

>>17829160
That only counts class time. FSI students of Japanese actually study about 4K hours before graduating with "General Professional Proficiency in Speaking and Reading".
http://www.govtilr.org/Publications/TESOL03ReadingFull.htm
>At FSI, it requires most adults at least five class hours a day for five days a week, plus three or more additional hours a day of independent study.

>>17830404
>「先輩、ワイと昼飯食べようや」っていうよりマシだろ
ちゃうちゃう、ワイみたいな外人なら何をしても大目に見られるやん（皮肉）
そう言うんなら確かにな、そういうときでワイを使うとアカンやな

>>17830434
たぶん笑って許してくれるだろうけど、絶対バカ外人やと思われるやんけ

>>17830463
にほんはだれもうまれないくに

>>17830497
お前日本行ったことないやろ？
あれなみんな政府に隠して押入れで育ててるで

>>17830483
>まあワイは日本人なんやけどね
こんにちはデイビッドくん
日本語がうまくなったね

>>17830516
ワ、ワイはヒロユキやで。
ヒロくんて呼んでや。

>>17830516
今年わたしは三十一

>>17830507
そうだったんだ

>>17830544
ワイは埼玉住みやでよう教えられへんわ。すまんな。
ただまああんな汚い言葉は覚える必要ないで。あれ基本的には動物の鳴き声と同じやからな。

>>17830669
>あんな汚い言葉は覚える必要ないで。あれ基本的には動物の鳴き声と同じやからな。
何言ってんねん？意味さっぱりわからん

>>17830635
What do you do instead? Just plain J-E vocab cards?

Do you think that sentence cards are actually less effective or is your position more that they take longer to make and review without providing any additional benefits?

>>17830767
こう言う場所やしね、解放的な気分になりたいんやね。
インチキ関西弁で話してるとな、何というか、興奮するやんか。性的に。

>>17830721
Flashcards train you on exactly one thing: remembering the back of the card based on the front.

When sentence cards add sentences to do anything more than a way to clarify on the "meaning" or "translation" of the word, you are making it so that you're training remembering that word based on /that particular sentence/, rather than the word itself regardless of the context it might show up in.

When the sentence is only clarifying the meaning of the word, there's no benefit to going out of your way to use iteratively more difficult sentences, because you're not going to learn the words in any particular order when you use flashcards, even if you add them in that order. Not only is there no point, but doing so will make it harder to select fitting example sentences to clarify the meaning of the words.

The problem is not whether they are effective or make reviews take longer, the problem is that they're founded in an idea that isn't true. Not by virtue of being iterative, but by being sentence cards in the first place. Being iterative would be good if sentence cards were good, but sentence cards aren't good, so being iterative is actually bad.

If you want practice reading sentences, a few minutes of flipping through any random manga or visual novel or scrolling through any social media account will give you a lot more useful exposure than using sentence cards. You get to see how the tone of sentences connects on a statement to statement basis, understand the context the sentences are in more deeply, and get exposed to words and grammar patterns that you're ready to start learning learn but aren't present in whatever isolated learning materials you're consuming right now.

Language acquisition is chipping away at indescribable tiny little truths, where a given word or grammar pattern might need you to learn anywhere from one to a hundred little truths to learn it. A given truth might teach you ten words. A given truth might simultaneously teach you a new grammar pattern and correct your understanding of the role of tense in normal sentences. A given word might need you to learn twenty truths, fifteen of which can only be learned through seeing other words or grammar patterns.

It's not about individual grammar patterns or words. They're only reminders to help yourself learn the actual tiny little truths that make up the language when consuming input. It makes input more comprehensible and acquisition a little faster. That's all.

>>17830215
>Most of the "shit" involved with Anki is actually proven.
The SRS format, not the cards themselves. If you do know of research on actual card format, I'd be genuinely interested.
>Iterative sentence cards.
I'll be more careful in the future so I don't trigger you.
>The i in i+1 is arbitrary and can be anything, including n.
Unless you jumped in after someone else, you were the one who "corrected" n+1 in the first place. You may have noticed I didn't care about the letter because that's obvious.

>>17830917
>The SRS format, not the cards themselves. If you do know of research on actual card format, I'd be genuinely interested.
Research on spacing curves uses simple recall/recognition formats (known to unknown, unknown to known) with no extraneous information. It's exactly "spaced repetition with cards in these formats that is proven to be effective. Anything else is not proven to be effective.

>Unless you jumped in after someone else, you were the one who "corrected" n+1 in the first place. You may have noticed I didn't care about the letter because that's obvious.
Using n+1 is a sign of ignorance. It's always stated as "i+1". That doesn't mean the i means anything, or that it wasn't arbitrarily chosen. Again, you already went over this when you went "maybe they just used n+1 because it has nothing to do with i+1! wink, wink, smile!".

>>17830943
Honestly 99% of the value of djt is the guide and cor.

>>17830821
>but sentence cards aren't good
You seem to be basing this entirely off of the one valid issue that you've given, leaning on the sentence itself. I've felt similar with lone vocabulary words before, where I know the answer from the "shape" or from it being "the only compound in my deck this long with this kanji in the second place", but can't actually read the word, and now that I know the answer what am I going to do, mark myself wrong and hope next time I don't recall it incorrectly? I need more to buy what you're selling, because I can follow the logic to assume it's a bigger problem with sentences, but I haven't felt it.
>It's not about individual grammar patterns or words.
That's ultimately why I think that review should be in some context.
>allergic to exposing themselves to the language, so they force as much stuff into their deliberate study as possible.
If you only do sentence cards and avoid reading/listening, you're fucking stupid. That also seems to imply you're just grabbing a premade deck of sentence cards, which is also fucking stupid.
>the illusion of having a foundational scientific backing
I have attempted to explicitly communicate otherwise.
>>17830930
>It's exactly "spaced repetition with cards in these formats that is proven to be effective. Anything else is not proven to be effective.
That's some weak reasoning to avoid tweaking methods and seeing if your results change. Let's do exactly what was done in the 80s and 90s for fear of "doing it wrong" or a false sense of conviction that the original method cannot be improved upon.
>Using n+1 is a sign of ignorance.
Where I come from, n+1 is used to communicate incremental in many contexts, so I didn't hold letter+1 as a sacred term which can only refer to one paper in language learning contexts. Again, my apologies for triggering your autism.

>>17831028
>>but sentence cards aren't good
>You seem to be basing this entirely off of the one valid issue that you've given
Did you ignore the entire rest of the argument? Because there isn't a single problem with sentence cards. There are several. Not only is there no reason to use them, they are bad.

>I've felt similar with lone vocabulary words before, where I know the answer from the "shape" or from it being "the only compound in my deck this long with this kanji in the second place", but can't actually read the word
That's because SRS doesn't work on objects that you haven't started learning outside the SRS. Because you used crappy shared decks. Not because it was lone vocabulary. Besides, an attack against "vocabulary cards" is not a defense of "sentence cards". They are not a dichotomy.

>and now that I know the answer what am I going to do, mark myself wrong and hope next time I don't recall it incorrectly?
Yeah?

>>It's not about individual grammar patterns or words.
>That's ultimately why I think that review should be in some context.
Sentences are not "context". Sentences are information. If you put a sentence on the front of your card, that's not "context" with which to learn the word, that's a cheat for your brain to recognize before recognizing the actual word.

How is the Duolingo Japanese? I've been using it on and off and it seems okay, but is there a faster way to learn?

>>17831064
>Did you ignore the entire rest of the argument?
You stretched rambling about sentence cards being bad, unproven, linking the word to the sentence, and not a replacement for reading practice, over paragraphs.
>That's because SRS doesn't work on objects that you haven't started learning outside the SRS. Because you used crappy shared decks.
But I didn't.
>Sentences are not "context".
That's bold.
>Sentences are information.
That's not a dichotomy either.
>It's possible to minimize exposure and only do it for the purpose of mining, which is still bad.
It's possible, but not what I endorse.
>>17831064
>Are you using the scientific method to test your changes? No? Then shut the fuck up.
Are you? Oh wait, you're allergic to changes that contrast the method originally used in studies. I guess you have zero interest in experimenting to improve your recall rate and cards per day.
It's disturbing that someone can be offended by discussion of a change that has not been tested. How do you think people with the resources to do a study come up with the idea in the first place?

>>17831185
Hell at this point its probably the same person just responding to himself

>>17831188
I wish.

can you guys argue on pastebin or something

>>17831185
Egotistical fucks like that are the sort of people you see with millions of posts on language forums who haven't actually learned the language despite investing thousands of hours working on their epeen.
Shit which benefits no one and never goes anywhere. Phrase of the Day for these insufferable clowns: 負け惜しみの減らず口。

>>17831149
>>17831185
>>17831188
>>17831211
>>17831230
I'm finding their discussion interesting.

>>17831250
諦めたら負け
全然通じないのに

>>17831255
Same here. I like their rigorous logic, or at least their attempts at it. I could never write such posts myself since I tend to gloss over assumptions when making arguments.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pI1feWHeUq4

Who here is going to take the next big step and start learning Ainu, the original and most ancient language of Japan?

>>17831181
I caught everything you said the first time, not responding to it doesn't mean I missed it. I didn't want to make a wall of text as pedantic as your post that summarizes every single word I've already said in previous posts.
>The ideas why (sentence cards and iterative sentences) work are made up.
The ideas why sentence cards and iterative sentences don't work are also made up.
>They're a waste of time.
That was non-sequitor, because they are not intended to function purely as language exposure.
>Reminder that iterative sentence cards are not i+1.
In the context of iterative sentences for the purpose of vocab cards, the i is measuring something different, as we've both agreed.
>They only exist because people want to spend less time reading and listening.
False, but I did already recognize that this is your perspective.
>Congrats, you mined garbage.
I'm fascinated that you have not experienced this issue even once.
>It doesn't have to be dichotomy to be able to say "it's not X, it's Y".
It's completely fucking useless to call something Y when Y is one of the broadest categories known to mankind. More relevant is that I disagree that it's not X, but I shouldn't have given you something easier to respond than that.
>I'm not changing anything

Got in some good reading during the two hours you fucking losers spent debating flashcards.

>>17829785
>took me fucking ages for flyable heart
>well over 2 months

It took me 11 months. Get on my level.

>>17831341
but hentai porno games aren't written in that

>>17830164

>>17831376
Maybe not, but you've got to respect the fact that Toukyo was an Ainu village long before the imperial house was even a thing.

>>17829663
>>17829785
>>17831366
I've been reading Flyable Heart for somewhere in the region of 3-4 months. I've finished 2 routes and am nearing the end of a 3rd one. I could've read a lot more by now but several points during the common route had me almost drop it and left me doing hardly any reading (or no reading at all) for several weeks. The current route I'm on has had a similar effect on me.

>>17831382
I have that image, but the lack of details on the character routes makes it difficult to tell how far you've gotten. All I can really glimpse from that image is that I'm somewhere in the last 1/3 of the route.

>>17831393
>You need to know that they do work.
>You have to prove that they're not worse to have any reason to replace something proven to work with them.
You are the reason that pseudointellectuals throw the word "scientism" around incorrectly. No fucking clue how you think new research ever actually occurs in your world.
Almost all of the rest of your post is non-sequitor, stating assumptions as fact, or parroting the same lines I've already responded to. More words more better argumentation, even if you're repeating yourself.

>>17831388
i only respect esteemed hentai game writers like maruto and romeo tanaker

>>17831388
Respecting every genocided and dislodged fuckers on the planet would be too troublesome. Let them dignifiedly fade away in the waver of their defeat.

>>17831429
Yeah, actually, to flaunt X as a method you kind of do have to prove that it works. Otherwise anyone arguing against you is completely fair game, even if they don't have scientific backing.

>>17831465
Those samurai boys sure keep trying to keep the Ainu down, but they still haven't lost their will to exist.

>>17831485
Not him, but I think the reason many people buy into the sentence method is that it's what this guy did:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejRkuX1RGf4

Seemingly it worked for him. Whether or not you can take that one case as proof of concept though is another matter.

>>17831485
I'm not writing a headline, I'm discussing it in a chinese shitposting chatroom. People tend to casually discuss unproven ideas, and even endorse them based on personal experience and word of mouth, without the other side becoming aggro over a sense of authority that was never actually there.

>>17831394
Knowing you are in the last 1/3 is pretty helpful I think. It is hard to balance being useful with not having any spoilers. Someone in the past thought that chart had too many spoilers already. I like my Satsukoi chart better because I kept track of how long the sex scenes were so it is more informative.

The common route was a real chore and I would read maybe 5-20 minutes per day. The same with the beginnings of each route. But when I got about halfway into a route I would finish it quickly. Amane was my first and I remember reading for 6 hours the day I finished her route.

>>17831500
The funny part about him is that he didn't do what he preached. Also, he preaches extensive input, so you could do literally anything on the side and the "method as a whole" would still appear to work. Matt actually implies this in a lot of his videos (like this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62r8m3JyEwg ), which are basically the only good material to come out as a result of of AJATT existing. AJATT itself is nothing more than a collection of language learning ideas from other sources (including real science, to some extent), serving as an advertisement for the creator's paid scam services.

>>17831505
Yeah because this post is totally just discussing the method and not pushing it on other people at all >>17828847

>>17831500
Am the one arguing for incremental sentences, and I just wanted to say that dude in video says some reasonable things but I generally think his blog is a pile of shit and some of his advice is incredibly fucking stupid, like making paragraph cards. But he does seem to be one of the main people who popularized it.

>>17831508
>The funny part about him is that he didn't do what he preached.
Which parts of what he preached are you saying he didn't do?

>>17831542
The AJATT guy had very poor memorization habits and didn't "use for any extended period of time" most of the flashcard advice he put out on his blog.

>>17831542
>>17831548
He also posted new contradictory methods regularly, started trying to make profit on his amateur blogpost advice, and disappeared to never be seen again. I like a lot of Matt's perspective, especially because he admits that the methods may not even be the core of what worked for him, but his biggest problem is failing to stop preaching the AJATT blog as a good resource that you should read in its entirety, when it isn't.

>>17831388
Very unlikely that they were specifically Ainu. Otherwise, there would be more evidence of language contact.

>>17831581
but the concept reflected by the ajatt adjective is pretty sound and good

>>17831581
>especially because he admits that the methods may not even be the core of what worked for him
I don't think he so much admits that as he does unintentionally imply it. If you're referencing the part of his "AJATT Journey" video that I think you are, he was saying that in reference to other people who learned Japanese without explicitly following the AJATT method. I don't think he was at all considering it as possibly being applicable to his own case.

Like you yourself admit later in your post ("his biggest problem is failing to stop preaching the AJATT blog as a good resource"), he seems to be very convinced that AJATT is the One True Method and that anything else that works only works because it accidentally does things that AJATT says you should.

>>17831626
i mean acronym woops

So reading shit and looking up stuff you dont understand is still the best method?

>>17831705
dont give in to the fake truths pushed by majorities dont give in

>>17831708
Even if it's wrong (I'm not going to take the time to check), what matters is that you know it, not that he says it. Endorsing anyone in the world as an infallible source is childishly naive. So is deciding this means no one has any valuable information or perspectives. You do your best to take the good and recognize the bad, based on your own knowledge and experience.

「ですが、突然ギャンブルを覚えたから、なんて理由では検挙できませんよね？」

What does the 突然ギャンブルを覚えたから part mean here? Context is that one guy is a pickpocket, but now seems to have a lot of money and started gambling.
I know the 2nd part means something like, "can not arrest him for reason" where reason is the part I dont understand.

>>17832025
かみさまにでもたのめば？

せんれいっていうのあるんでしょ？

>>17831970
Look up なんて in DoJG or HJGP. The stuff before it is the 理由.

Can't be arrested just because he suddenly learned to gamble, right?

Hey /djt/, noob here, I hope you don't mind my quick question. What is the general attitude of Japanese towards foreigners? I'm not too proud to admit I'd be a bit discouraged if Japan in general is tolerant of but dislikes gaijin.

>>17832144
Well, I knew it was the reason, I just couldnt make sense of the reason, but it seems to fit.

>>17832222
>なんて

えいごにするのむずかしい

>などという

が

ていねいないいかたじゃないかなあとおもうよ

>>17832249
ありがとう。その説明はdojgよりわかりやすいね。

is there anything similar to kanji kentei for 3ds but for smartphones?

>>17832203
A mob with pitchforks will form at the airport and prevent you from leaving the plane, that's how much they hate you gaijin bastards.

>>17832490
What a normalfag thing to care about, anyway.

>>17832545
people cant survive on themselves alone

>>17832577
You obviously know what I mean.

>>17832545
Whatever makes you sleep better at night, Davido-kun.

>>17832490
>and youll have a hard time making true connections with people
lol who gives a flying fuck, go be extroverted somewhere else

>放任主義

>>17832729
What is the white hair supposed to mean?

>>17832727
give the guy who asked the question shit not me

also youre being extroverted on the internet right now so whats the difference

does the many uses of の ever confuse natives? と as well, has many uses, but i feel like the only obvious ones are the "doing with" and the listing forms.

>>17832754
When wrapped in the nice warm blanket of context, no

>>17832754
I'm not a native and a slow reader but I don't remember being confused about the exact role of either of those in a while.

>>17832281
漢字検定DX

>>17832676
I don't see how it'll ever reach your native language level unless you were raised bilingual.

>>17832754
If it's used wrong in a youtube comment written by a native 10-year-old then it's confusing but it's rarely fatal

>>17832754
If it was confusing for natives, it wouldn't be part of the language.

>>17829663
My first one? It was Unred Night. In retrospect fucking shit novel, the beginning was okayish, the middle part was decent but the last part was super annoying. It took me way too long to finish.
Now I am reading Dracu Riot, but while reading I do other things on the side, such as shitposting or taking a break for faps etc, but I manage to read about 700 lines/18000 words per reading session I guess. Probably takes me around 3-4 hours.

>これは幽霊に取り憑かれている何よりの証拠
>だとしたら。。。
>私がなんとかしないと。。。

>This is undeniable proof of possession by a ghost
>If that is the case...
>If I don't do something...

Close? (´･ω･`)

>好事家
The 事 is a ズ... but it's oddly easy to remember because it's a fittingly weird reading for what the word means.

>>17833084
yeah basically

>>17833099
The JMdict definition for that word is ridiculously misleading.

>>17833103
(´ω｀*)感謝

よく meaning often does make some sense, but what is the reason for it meaning surprise or criticism?

why the fuck is 直 so difficult it has like 20 different meanings and readings in different words REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
it's literally the worst kanji in the first 2000 words

jesus fucking christ the HJGP entry/entries on たら are fucking massive and incredibly detailed

>thought i had an hour to do my reviews
>double reviews daily reset is an hour earlier

THANKS DAYLIGHT SAVINGS

明日は俺の誕生日です

>>17833347
おめでとう～

>>17833347
Congratulations! You are now 1 year closer to being free.

>>17833351
>>17833359
ありがとうございました

>>17833347
んで？

>>17833313
If it's at all possible, you really should try to get a habit of doing reviews first thing in the morning (optionally after showering and breakfast). When I was doing it later in the day, I would think about it constantly, procrastinate, and feel bad. When I've already done my reviews, I'm happy and able to more fully enjoy and focus on any non-Japanese shit I have to or want to do. Just my experience.

>>17833512
you might need to add a card manually as first

>>17833556
Tried that

Jesus fucking christ, im feeling burned out, must be because yesterday i crammed like 1000 new words, shit.

Would anyone be so kind as to critique my ability to understand this language? I tried translating this page to see how much I (don't) know.

>Oho?

>Magnificent!!

>Good!

>Entertain me some more!!

>He’s acting like a fool...Take this seriously!!

>He’s pushing her in order to see something.
He’s totally composed...What exactly is he intending to find out...?

この仕事は遊びのつもりです。

translate this and tell me why it doesnt say "I intend to play/fool around at this job"

>>17833744
>He’s acting like a fool
>He’s pushing her in order to see something.
>No. I think he just has rough skin.
These are wrong

My employer is offering to pay for my grad degree, one of my choices includes a year of language learning (advertised about 15-20 hours a week, including self study) within the degree and Japanese is an option.

What kind of proficiency will a year of university get me provided I do a reasonable job in learning? I've already emailed the uni, awaiting a response. I'd like to have anon's opinion on this too.

>>17833851
From what I've seen, in college it takes 1 year to finish Genki I.

i am never going to make it if the entire book is full of dumb shit like this

>>17833940
this is way better, forgot it existed.

>>17833851
From what I've heard from others who took classes, the pace is unbelievably slow compared to where good self-study habits can take you. Most of your classmates will not even try to work on their pronunciation/accent, and will narrowly avoid a failing grade. The primary benefit is a native instructor to speak to in person, and maybe get some one-on-one conversation practice with as well. Also you will learn very few kanji in class.
On the other hand, it might serve as motivation, and doing very well in the course will probably make you feel your progress more directly than only focusing on the material you're struggling to read.
My impression is that if you're interested in taking the language seriously, you still want to do self-study pretty much the same as if you weren't taking the class, with the exception of prioritizing anything you need to focus on for your grade. Which means RTK for months without touching vocabulary wont be an option if you don't start way ahead of time, but personally I feel that kanji in isolation to get them over with is overrated.

>>17834089
You can do 2000 words in 3 months of Anki and learn like 500+ kanji while doing it. That's like 30 minutes of Anki per day

Not saying don't take the course but it seems like a slow one. They are good for speaking practice and motivation for beginners

サンタさんにプレゼントのおねがいがあります

>>17834421
まだなにもいってないのに

ひどーい

https://m.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/detail/q1239591247

I had to google this line, since I didn't get the joke. I thought the guinea pigs were taken to hospitals to cheer up the patients or something. ブラックジョークだな…

Some fitting reading practice for Halloween.

>アパートで９人の遺体「浴室で切断」部屋にのこぎり
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/html/20171031/k10011205861000.html

さあ皆、ハロウィンやで
けどイベントなんてあらへんのでコスプレできん
来年こそやな...

>>17834720
ブラックジョークより黒人冗談の方がいいぞ

>>17834786
DJTてきにはさいこぱす？

さああたえようせいぎをこわしてこわされるまえに
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aj2xvXNFJ6g

トマトみきさーでびゅーんはトラウマ

>>17834943
Because kanji give you a mnemonic or general shape of a word to memorize. Not to mention if you already know some of the kanji in the word it becomes much easier to associate the meaning and readings of the kanji you already know to the new word, which also strengthens the mental links between the kanji themselves so you remember both the new word and the meaning easily.
Meanwhile kana only words can be easily read but the only way to remember the meaning of a word is based on how it sounds. Sort of like alphabet-based languages.

>>17835039
ごめんなさいおにいちゃん

HHow much time is it supposed to take for you to master hiragana completely?

I know all the charactera for about a month or so, but it still takes me some time to read it, it is like I have to make a connection between the sound and the translation in the Latin script. Is that normal? I'm afraid I have gotten a bad habit. When there are long sentences I have to read them many times to get it right in normal speed and without stuttering. And of course, there are some characters that are easier to "remember".

>>17835296
だいじよぶだ

うんうんでりゅ！
うんうんでりゅよぉぉ！

マジで

>きりーつれーーい
The children are saying goodbye to each other. The other speech bubble in the panel says "さよおなら". I have no idea what this word means, except for it vaguely reminding me of きおつけて.

>>17833744
I am bad at comprehension as well.

I think

>馬鹿にして…
implies something like こちらを before it

>押されているように見えるが
It's passive, and the 見える is active, all with the same subject. So it translates squarely to "he looks like he's being pushed".

>いや、思うにあれはだな
the IME probably lies because I think は is pronounced わ here, basically that guy mutters agreement. I am not entirely sure because it sounds like wrong or dialectal Japanese to me (with my limited experience) but natives can't be wrong and nothing else makes sense.

>>17835891
answer this kudasai

>>17834607
You have basically three strokes: one in the top left, one in the top right and one in the bottom left corner (second and third are connected, but it's irrelevant)
Now, in ソ, top strokes have angle of about 45 degrees between them, and top left is almost perpendicular to the top right. It's very noticeable once you look. On the contrary, in ン, top left is almost perpendicular to the top right, and top left has an angle of about 45 degrees with the bottom left.

Same is for ツ and シ, only with extra strokes that make the distinction even more simple.

Just blazed through hanahira.
Saw the saves from 2015 too, and remembered myself struggling immensely with it.
It only took me 2 years, 1000 hours of Anki and, very nearly an N1. And I still do not know all of the words in there, just end me already, senpai-tachi.
Great feeling nonetheless.

>>17836568
What words did you not know?
基礎代謝？

>>17836682
Took me too long to figure out how 寝相 would be pronounced because my brain was stuck thinking about 相手, but 反射神経 was easy to break down into 反射 and 神経. I knew 神経, but not 反射, so I remembers 反応 and 感謝. So I knew it had to be pronounced はんしゃ but couldn't figure out what it meant until I moused over it with rikai.

>>17836692
>my brain was stuck thinking about 相手
相手 is 訓読み, is it not? I can recall 相談 for on.

Hey guys, I printed out genki books a year ago before giving up on Japanese. Now I started again, but it seems like the book occasionally uses Kanji. I thought I was supposed to learn grammar before going into that
Should I use Tae Kim instead or screw the Kanjis and use Genki for grammar only?

>>17836744
Stupid question. Read guide.

>>17836744
>Should I use Tae Kim instead
Use it. In the beginning it clearly explains why you should start using Kanji as soon as possible.

how the fuck do you learn new words
the only language I've ever learned aside from my own was english and that happened when I was a kid, i have no idea how did I learn it
I'm talking about something like learning 20 words before starting a chapter, not long term kanji with anki

>>17836788
>>17836774
you remember new words with anki
you learn them by consuming stories

Kanji? More like please fucking kill me

>>17836795
I doubt it really matters whether you mine words or get them from some sort of CoreXK deck, except of course the former is more fun.

>>17836822
it matters a lot more than you would think
for one, core's coverage of any kind of material is pretty bad
two, mining gives you a real reason to understand the word

>>17836819
A text with kanji is easier to read and understand than the same text written in kana.

>>17836826
I'd agree with coverage. But who needs a reason when you can autistically work your way through your Anki deck? Aren't Anki stats enough of a reason in themselves?

>>17836819
You can always quit learning Japanese if you don't like Chinese characters.

>>17836838
not really

>>17836843
Come on, I'm just joking at this point. But speaking seriously, in a necessity it's possible to learn isolated words by Anki only. Though that indeed would not be advisable in almost any circumstances.

>>17836766
>i have no idea how did I learn it
I can only hope you learn your Japanese a little better than you learned your English.

>>17836852
oh it would absolutely be advisable it's just not ideal

>>17836854
>can't even reply to the right post
No anon, YOU are the retards

>>17837008
I really should quit phoneposting.

Is there a particular reason to use Anki over making your own flash cards and getting the rote benefit of writing them yourself?

>>17837060
It's significantly less time consuming to do reviews in anki than with physical flashcards. Good luck keeping spaced scheduling straight with paper flashcards, have fun going through over 100 physical cards per day, etc.

>>17837060
It tracks stats and automatically decides which cards to show you everyday.
Also, managing a deck of thousands of physical cards seems like it would be a pain in the ass.

>>17834607
Learn the stroke order properly to distinguish, noting that the ones with a top-to-bottom long stroke generally have the dots aligned with the top of the stroke, and the ones with a left-to-right long stroke generally have the dots aligned with the left of the stroke. Then look at pic related stolen from google images (and stitched to put in one post). It's stupid, and clearly not intentional, but it helped me. It also wont help you distinguish the pairs ソツ and ンシ, so you'll need to separate the one-dot and two-dot sounds separately. But it covers your current problem. I have no idea why the creator put ノ there, and why the つ starts so fucking low, but I'm too lazy to do more editing than the sloppy image concatenation I just did.

>>17837060
What a waste of time, paper and ink.

>>17837060
You can get the rote benefit of writing the answer when recalling cards. Anki is way handier to manage cards, and contains the algorithm calculating the optimal time of showing them (which is the whole point of it)

>>17837341
I think so.

Are you sure you've properly set up your computer to run VNs?

http://erogedownload.com/faq/installing-japanese-support-for-windows-xp/
http://erogedownload.com/faq/installing-japanese-support-for-windows-vista/
http://erogedownload.com/faq/changing-to-japanese-locale-on-windows-7/

(can't remember if it says so in those links, but you should also change your number/currency/date/etc. format to Japanese as well)

If you've got your computer set up properly, make sure you have directx and such installed.

>>17837360
I'm pretty sure I have everything set up properly because I got Hanahira to work. I'll check again just to make sure though.

おはよおおにいちゃん

あんこくのよいやみにながれるあさつゆ

えっ？！　カーソルくん、一体なにやってんの、こんな所に？

>持っててよかった

So we have in this sentence 持つ in the gerund and よい in the past, but tell me senpai what is the function of the double て? Did the character stutter or something?

>>17837404
yeah this is a really fucking dumb explanation, basically wrong

by "when the speaker wants to suggest something by a conditional sentence" it actually means that you can't put requests or other irrealis things in the "result" of the condition, like you can with たら

>>17837407
もってなかったら１枚借りるしかないよね

Any windows software to translate text on the screen?

>>17837459
Capture2Text. Don't come here again until you read the entire guide.

>>17837407
持って(い)てよかった

>>17837479
>>17837495
そうですね～
暇にがありがとう

>>17826981
"ctrl+left mouse" and then "u" afterwards

>>17837341
It won't work without either the disc image mounted or a no dvd patch

寒い...寒いよ...
怖いよぉ...

>>17837605
暗いも
怖いはずだぞ

>>17824728
>やってやろうじゃねえか
>Let's do this, then!

i know its derived from these words right?
遣る やる do
やろう seems, I guess

but still mashed together those words feel so unnatural to my level of understanding. anybody can help with some insight?

>>17837733
I'm already at a decent level. Also that would hardly take 1 year. It's not like learning 20-30 unique words out of a total of ~1000 in a novel would take that much unless you're a complete brainlet.

>>17837776
Out ~1000 unique words*
Keep your sass for when you can use Japanese properly friend.

>>17837766
>1000 unique words in a novel
>implying

>>17837788
Brainlet pls.

>>17824728
お前が血を
吸いすぎたせいなんだよ

That's because you drank too much blood!

i dont get the せい. what is this derived from?

>>17837813
Are you sure you're not the brainlet? A 80-100k word Japanese novel has 5-10k unique words. Go try making your own word list and find out.

>>17837817
せい is its own word

>>17837846
and what word is it? i dont get it.

>>17837868
"fault"

>>17837874
woah okay. took a while to get behind this. thanks. never saw this before.

Those of you who have reached your own personal goal, what was it? And how long did it take you to reach? I know fluency is probably the end goal for most, but I mean more specifically what was it that you set out to be able to do.

>>17838162
Eh, maybe. I guess I'm expecting more people to want to continue learning after reaching their original goal than there are.