/jp/ - Otaku Culture

https://www.dualshockers.com/atelier-lydie-suelle-screenshots-new-returning-characters/

So Plachta has been traveling with Sophie after all but I'm still not sure if she's just gone through a costume/hair style change or if her body has been modified or made more human. Her eyes are still the same color with the star-shaped pupils so I'm guessing it's her same body. Rusha must also be a party member at some point since her goal is also to explore the painting world. She could end up being DLC though.

Guys how do I get into Atelier? I bought Totori Plus but I just don't get the appeal.

>>17768804
It's not for everyone. What don't you like?

Nay is a cutie

Do you think Ion did compensated dating and stuff back when she was just a normal high school student?

>>17768804
Try a different one. I didn't care much for Totori either.

I'm not getting the Blue Reflection hate. Granted, I'm not very far in (just started chapter 4 I think) but it's been pretty enjoyable. Very laid back though.

>>17768804
Have you been to Arland and back yet? Atelier Totori is kinda boring during the intro, but it gets much better after that.

Just finished AT2
That final boss was beautiful

>>17768804
If you don't like it then it's not for you

>>17768820
>>17768904
Fuck off, Nay.

>>17769360
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9cZ0fU0LCQ

just for you, anon

>>17768817
>>17769042
>>17769149
It's my first Atelier game and I just don't really get what I'm supposed to be doing. I just wander aimlessly, try to make stuff and get absolutely wrecked by bosses.

Impressive, they made the redhead and Plachta's 3d models better than the 2d art

>>17769360
Back in the day I had to actively hold back because if I went all out the fights would end before the music gets to the climax. It was disappointing tbqh

does anyone have the ar nosurge artbooks from the EXA_PICO Visual Collection, since nyaa is dead?

>>17770258
sadpanda

>>17770265
oh shit, didn't even think of it.

>>17768904
no

Luca is a slut and a whore

>>17771617
>>17770037
I don't get this meme

I heard there are plans for Ciel Nosurge translation patch by some group. I just can't find any information about it. Am I being memed?

>>17772086
I remember reading at a point that it would be 'possible' to make it mostly busywork because of CnSiE and HENkaku, but I doubt anyone has decided to pick that up.

What the hell happened to Kanon and Cosal's characters between Ciel and Ar? Seemed like they changed completely.

>>17772182
I decided just not to think about this. It wasn't even explained why the hell is she even alive.

>>17772223

Maybe you should bother reading instead of making bullshit up: http://artonelico.wikia.com/wiki/Ion_Extend_Talk_Pack_Vol._3_-_Encrypted_Messages_from_the_Ar_nosurge_Tube_-#File_05:_Deep_Psyche

>>17772182

They didn't: what was the last thing Cosal bore witness to before he was killed in Ciel's eleventh chapter, and then got his soul and Kanon's sealed away into the Micro Quasar when Ion sang the Ra Ciel Fuser?

And what things could have Kanon's soul experienced during the time her soul was in the Micro Quasar fused to Cosal? Think it up a litttle and you'll see how easy it was for Zill to manipulate them.

>>17772086
>>17772111

The same people who worked on the AT2 Retranslation have plans to do it. However, they're currently busy with Atelier Marie + Elie, and they will start looking seriously at Ciel only once they have finished that.

>>17772111
Didn't aquagon talk about that on twitter, or something? I think he did mention that he plans to make it his next translation project, or something like that.
I do remember people mentioning that there is still a lot of text from Ion untranslated though, and that CnSiE isn't even nearly all of text in the game, and how the whole thing still isn't trivial at all. I do imagine it's probably the hardest part of it to actually translate, though.

Is Ciel nosurge good?

>>17772286

No if you're looking for battles and the like, considering it is a visual novel/communication simulator. But in storytelling and characterization, it's pretty good.

>>17772303
If it's a visual novel does that mean it has explicit sex scenes?

I was going to get a vita tv to play ar nosurge but since ciel has the possibility to get a translation I don't know anymore

>>17772311
Console games never have explicit scenes.

>>17772311

...Who on their right mind would think it's a hentai VN after it was released on a handheld or a console?

>>17772315

Don't bother. Ciel isn't Vita TV compatible and is heavily dependent on the normal Vita's touchscreen and camera for its gameplay.

>>17772322
Titty rub minigame?

>>17772331
You rub Ion's face

>>17771871
It's just some anon being a fag. She doesn't look slutty at all and the game isn't even out.

>>17772250
>However, there is only one thing that worries me, and that is the feelings of [[SH_83774L]](Zill). Her feelings are astoundingly deep, yet I can't stop feeling that there is a dark side to them. I pray that I'm only overthinking her actions.
You can't just blindly trust Zill? Wow, I wonder how she came across that idea.

Also, not him, but I too think it was really weird and inconsistent.
As a point zero, you shouldn't even need to read supporting materials to understand basic plot points. If you need to, it's a failure of the writer. Such a crucial plot point shouldn't be hidden away in the Talk Pack.
Point one, it's obvious Zill revived both of them, but it still came really out-of-nowhere. Here they were dead, and everybody was sad because they definitely can't be brought back to life again, and then here they are in the sequel, just fine, and nobody seems to mind it much or ask them any questions on how the fuck are they still alive.
Second of all, I don't really get what you're talking about with regards to their mindset, since it was never really elaborated upon much.
What did Kanon experience while she was in the Micro Quasar? I don't know, did she experience anything at all? Wasn't she pure energy, or something?
What did Cosal bore witness to? Maybe Ion and company leaving in tears and Clackett sacrificing himself? He didn't have awareness after that, I think.
If you have an idea about the reason, don't speak in riddles, just say it straight. Anon asked because he already didn't figure something out, if we believe you, this "make my argument for me based on vague hints" approach is just demeaning, and basically forces people to argue on theoreticals of what you could have been meaning. Why do you just assume it's obvious to everybody if it was obvious to you?
Point three, even if we assume Cosal saw basically everything that happened until Nero stole the Micro Quasar, there wasn't anything that bad. The planet was destroyed, but it was done on explicit permission of said planet. The Genom were pretty much all killed, but it was because nobody could convince them to leave with everybody. I guess there was genom genocide before that, which happened because a ton of people, ignorant of everything that was going on, with no real connection to even the people who were supposed to be saving them and afraid of their approaching death, saw the world literally falling apart as genom start to do something weird - a tragedy, but you could hardly blame them even for that. Maybe you meant that when you were talking about the last thing Cosal saw, I don't know, not like it was really ever mentioned. Even in that case, I can't imagine how someone supposed to be so "pure" and "empathetic", couldn't figure out what the people were thinking at the time. Nope, it must be because they are all assholes. They must all be genocided right now, and let's just ignore the already tough situation or the fact they're descendants of descendants.

https://www.gamecity.ne.jp/atelier/lydie/character.html

Site updated. So Plachta and Lucia really are listed as sub characters. What the fuck, Gust? Why would you ruin this chance for SophiePlachta combination attack? I really don't understand them sometimes. Unless sub characters can be playable or something. Maybe she'll get confirmed later or they're trying to fuck with us or something, I don't know. Either that or they'll go max jew and make us pay for her as DLC. And goddammit, why don't they list her height? It's already obvious that Sophie humanized her somehow.

>However, there is only one thing that worries me, and that is the feelings of [[SH_83774L]](Zill). Her feelings are astoundingly deep, yet I can't stop feeling that there is a dark side to them. I pray that I'm only overthinking her actions.
You can't just blindly trust Zill? Wow, I wonder how she came across that idea.

Also, not him, but I too think it was really weird and inconsistent.
As a point zero, you shouldn't even need to read supporting materials to understand basic plot points. If you need to, it's a failure of the writer. Such a crucial plot point shouldn't be hidden away in the Talk Pack.
Point one, it's obvious Zill revived both of them, but it still came really out-of-nowhere. Here they were dead, and everybody was sad because they definitely can't be brought back to life again, and then here they are in the sequel, just fine, and nobody seems to mind it much or ask them any questions on how the fuck are they still alive.
Second of all, I don't really get what you're talking about with regards to their mindset, since it was never really elaborated upon much.
What did Kanon experience while she was in the Micro Quasar? I don't know, did she experience anything at all? Wasn't she pure energy, or something?
What did Cosal bore witness to? Maybe Ion and company leaving in tears and Clackett sacrificing himself? He didn't have awareness after that, I think.
If you have an idea about the reason, don't speak in riddles, just say it straight. Anon asked because he already didn't figure something out, if we believe you, this "make my argument for me based on vague hints" approach is just demeaning, and basically forces people to argue on theoreticals of what you could have been meaning. Why do you just assume it's obvious to everybody if it was obvious to you?
Point three, even if we assume Cosal saw basically everything that happened until Nero stole the Micro Quasar, there wasn't anything that bad. The planet was destroyed, but it was done on explicit permission of said planet. The Genom were pretty much all killed, but it was because nobody could convince them to leave with everybody. I guess there was genom genocide before that, which happened because a ton of people, ignorant of everything that was going on, with no real connection to even the people who were supposed to be saving them and afraid of their approaching death, saw the world literally falling apart as genom start to do something weird - a tragedy, but you could hardly blame them even for that. Maybe you meant that when you were talking about the last thing Cosal saw, I don't know, not like it was really ever mentioned. Even in that case, I can't imagine how someone supposed to be so "pure" and "empathetic", couldn't figure out what the people were thinking at the time. Nope, it must be because they are all assholes. They must all be genocided right now, and let's just ignore the already tough situation or the fact they're descendants of descendants.

>>17772250
>However, there is only one thing that worries me, and that is the feelings of [[SH_83774L]](Zill). Her feelings are astoundingly deep, yet I can't stop feeling that there is a dark side to them. I pray that I'm only overthinking her actions.
You can't just blindly trust Zill? Wow, I wonder how she came across that idea.

Also, not him, but I too think it was really weird and inconsistent.
As a point zero, you shouldn't even need to read supporting materials to understand basic plot points. If you need to, it's a failure of the writer. Such a crucial plot point shouldn't be hidden away in the Talk Pack.
Point one, it's obvious Zill revived both of them, but it still came really out-of-nowhere. Here they were dead, and everybody was sad because they definitely can't be brought back to life again, and then here they are in the sequel, just fine, and nobody seems to mind it much or ask them any questions on how the fuck are they still alive.
Second of all, I don't really get what you're talking about with regards to their mindset, since it was never really elaborated upon much.
What did Kanon experience while she was in the Micro Quasar? I don't know, did she experience anything at all? Wasn't she pure energy, or something?
What did Cosal bore witness to? Maybe Ion and company leaving in tears and Clackett sacrificing himself? He didn't have awareness after that, I think.
If you have an idea about the reason, don't speak in riddles, just say it straight. Anon asked because he already didn't figure something out, if we believe you, this "make my argument for me based on vague hints" approach is just demeaning, and basically forces people to argue on theoreticals of what you could have been meaning. Why do you just assume it's obvious to everybody if it was obvious to you?
Point three, even if we assume Cosal saw basically everything that happened until Nero stole the Micro Quasar, there wasn't anything that bad. The planet was destroyed, but it was done on explicit permission of said planet. The Genom were pretty much all killed, but it was because nobody could convince them to leave with everybody. I guess there was genom genocide before that, which happened because a ton of people, ignorant of everything that was going on, with no real connection to even the people who were supposed to be saving them and afraid of their approaching death, saw the world literally falling apart as genom start to do something weird - a tragedy, but you could hardly blame them even for that. Maybe you meant that when you were talking about the last thing Cosal saw, I don't know, not like it was really ever mentioned. Even in that case, I can't imagine how someone supposed to be so "pure" and "empathetic", couldn't figure out what the people were thinking at the time. Nope, it must be because they are all assholes. They must all be genocided right now, and let's just ignore the already tough situation or the fact they're descendants of descendants.

>>17772591

Now you're acting like a full retard who doesn't even bother to think by themselves. The Talk Pack was added as a supplement to the narrative that was given in both games in order for the players that had played them both and linked their data to get clarification on plot points that were barely alluded to in the game, and even without it, it's not that hard to make the leap to Zill reviving them because she was the one who developed the method to revive the Genom souls that were sealed in the Quasar that Kanon started using later on, to say nothing of us seeing Kanon's new vessel early in Ar nosurge, before Zill had put her soul into it.

And I'll answer the questions I posed and that you didn't even bother to think about: the last thing Cosal got to see were the humans being selfish pricks that would destroy everything and anything for their own sake for a second time, beginning with the Genoms and then going up all the way to the planet. And there is also the fact that he was among the ones who first witnessed how the humans invaded their planet, literally drove his original race (the Sharls) to extinction, and then acted as if nothing had ever happened.

In fact, his original plan was making the humans build Soreil to then deceive them into shipping themselves to the ends of the universe and abandon them there, and he only abandoned this plan because of Tenmon's interferences and Ion and Kanon changing his mind, until Revelt came and screwed everything up. Almetica even states in Ciel's twelfth chapter that unlike other Genoms' feelings of regret for not being able to properly guide humans, the feelings Cosal had at the time of his death were pure hatred and rage.

As for Kanon, she was locked with a soul that felt nothing but hatred and contempt for the humans, and she was forced to bear these feelings in addition to guilt for Ra Ciela's destruction at the humans' hands all the time until Zill put her soul in a new vessel. The only thing is that her blaming Ion for it is misplaced because the planet was already set for destruction before Ion even had thought of singing the Fuser.

>>17772631
>Now you're acting like a full retard who doesn't even bother to think by themselves.
It was my first post in the thread, you've been talking to a different anon before. I just agree with him.
And I can't be bothered to actually make your arguments for you. And if it was some try at an explanation, then it was exceedingly poor. Answering questions with questions is extremely unhelpful unless you're a math teacher.
>The Talk Pack was added as a supplement to the narrative that was given in both games in order for the players that had played them both and linked their data to get clarification on plot points that were barely alluded to in the game
Crucial plot points shouldn't be barely alluded to in the first place.
>it's not that hard to make the leap to Zill reviving them
It isn't, but her being able to do it all it out-of-nowhere. And nobody ever seems surprised by the notion, which is weird.
>Kanon's new vessel
I actually don't remember that one.
>And I'll answer the questions I posed and that you didn't even bother to think about
I thought about it, and decided that I should just ask you explicitly anyway, because there's no one obvious answer to those, and I'm not willing to discuss all possible answers I could come up with, just because you can't be bothered to descend from the heavens and actually make a statement.
>the last thing Cosal got to see were the humans being selfish pricks that would destroy everything and anything for their own sake for a second time
Who are humans? Revelt and whomever he called? Because most humans didn't actually have any power over the outcome at any point in time, and there were a fuckton of people opposing Revelt too. As far as I'm concerned, there were just a couple of assholes in power, and they screwed it up for everybody.
Hell, even from people Revelt called who actually came, how many knew what exactly was going on and how many came along so that their families are saved?
And he was literally making a heartfelt speech to Ionasal about how people should become better and walk along with Genom before the sacrifice. He sure changed opinions quickly.
>And there is also the fact that he was among the ones who first witnessed how the humans invaded their planet, literally drove his original race (the Sharls) to extinction, and then acted as if nothing had ever happened.
>In fact, his original plan was making the humans build Soreil to then deceive them into shipping themselves to the ends of the universe and abandon them there
Alright, this actually is an argument. An argument for his character actually being drastically different than we see him in Ciel all along. That we actually see nothing of his character in the entirety of Ciel, at all, and what we see is a lie. This is still weird, because Kanon is literally soulbonded to him, Ion has a talk with him and thousands of Genom follow him, and they all talk about how warm and kind he is, since a more powerful soul is literally kinder in the setting. And it turns out he actually held deep racial hatred in him all along, and everybody just missed that somehow. And all this from supplementary materials, which shouldn't be necessary to understand the major plot points.
Now is it a wonder that people say that he's written differently in Ciel? If there weren't supplementary materials and Ar, would anyone even be able to figure out this stuff about him? And hell, Ar doesn't go that deep into it either.
>As for Kanon, she was locked with a soul that felt nothing but hatred and contempt for the humans
Didn't Almetica explicitly state that they felt nothing in the Quasar and that they're pure energy? Or was there some intermediate state when they're no longer energy but not yet in their bodies?
I don't actually mind her going along with Cosal from a character perspective, though. She never was the independent thinker, even in Ciel, and she did put entirely too much stock in Cosal's opinions.

>>17772780
>It isn't, but her being able to do it all it out-of-nowhere. And nobody ever seems surprised by the notion, which is weird.

Most people are too worried about being attacked by the Sharls she revived to be worrying about the specifics on where they came from. As for Ion, would she care how Kanon came back as long as she was safe and sound?

>I actually don't remember that one.

The "unconscious" body of her we see floating at the Genomirai Church, the one Sarly extracts Ciel N Protecta from.

>Who are humans? Revelt and whomever he called? Because most humans didn't actually have any power over the outcome at any point in time, and there were a fuckton of people opposing Revelt too. As far as I'm concerned, there were just a couple of assholes in power, and they screwed it up for everybody.
Hell, even from people Revelt called who actually came, how many knew what exactly was going on and how many came along so that their families are saved? And he was literally making a heartfelt speech to Ionasal about how people should become better and walk along with Genom before the sacrifice. He sure changed opinions quickly.

A bunch of rotten apples rots away the whole crop. It isn't the first time and it won't be last time a whole group is condemned by the fault of a few. Even if Cosal was being sincere about the stuff he told Ion at that point, you'd have to be in denial to think he wouldn't hate the humans after what Revelt and his followers did.

>Alright, this actually is an argument. An argument for his character actually being drastically different than we see him in Ciel all along. That we actually see nothing of his character in the entirety of Ciel, at all, and what we see is a lie. This is still weird, because Kanon is literally soulbonded to him, Ion has a talk with him and thousands of Genom follow him, and they all talk about how warm and kind he is, since a more powerful soul is literally kinder in the setting. And it turns out he actually held deep racial hatred in him all along, and everybody just missed that somehow. And all this from supplementary materials, which shouldn't be necessary to understand the major plot points. Now is it a wonder that people say that he's written differently in Ciel? If there weren't supplementary materials and Ar, would anyone even be able to figure out this stuff about him? And hell, Ar doesn't go that deep into it either.

I addressed it when I said that Ion and Kanon made him change his mind partially on the humans and made him see they could be a force for good instead of just being a destructive swarm, until Revelt threw all their effort into their trash and brought back his hatred in full force. In the end, he only recapacitates in Arno because of the efforts the two parties do to save the Sharls after Zill starts her rampage as the Maternal Overseer.

>Didn't Almetica explicitly state that they felt nothing in the Quasar and that they're pure energy? Or was there some intermediate state when they're no longer energy but not yet in their bodies?

Almetica's knowledge is still fallible, and it isn't farfetched they could have stayed locked in the feelings they had in their last moments.


And you might just as well extend that complaint about the additional material to the whole universe these games came from, as that's something that has been happening ever since the first Ar tonelico got released. If you're not going to bother doing your research after playing the games, maybe you shouldn't even bother with the series to begin with.

>>17772927
>As for Ion, would she care how Kanon came back as long as she was safe and sound?
Why not? These are not mutually exclusive. I would argue they are part of the same impulse, even.
>A bunch of rotten apples rots away the whole crop. It isn't the first time and it won't be last time a whole group is condemned by the fault of a few.
Revelt really wasn't part of the government at this point, and there were tons of people right around Cosal who either sacrificed themselves to stop Revelt, or tried to stop him however they could. But whatever, maybe it just wasn't enough for him. I don't really understand the psychology of racism, to be honest.
>Even if Cosal was being sincere about the stuff he told Ion at that point, you'd have to be in denial to think he wouldn't hate the humans after what Revelt and his followers did.
What about him literally giving a heartfelt speech to Ion about how humans need to walk along Genom before his sacrifice? Was it all a lie? Or did he not hate humans then, but only five seconds later?
I don't see how one follows from the other, really, and I don't believe doubting that is stupid either. But it's impossible to argue about this one constructively, so whatever. I just don't believe it's really how Cosal should have felt, even considering what we know about him, but maybe I just don't get him.
>Ion and Kanon made him change his mind
It was really a massive change. In one situation he's extremely kind and wise, and respects and feels guilt towards Kanon, in the other he's an extreme bigot who just wants all the humans to fuck off and die, and ditches Kanon, who supported him through the thick and thin and sacrificed his life with him, just because she dared question his logic.
And this happened not one, but three times in a row.
Man, is the guy moody.
>Almetica's knowledge is still fallible
Usually a character like him speaks pure exposition and going for "his knowledge was faulty" should be set up better, but OK, maybe he did just make a mistake.
>If you're not going to bother doing your research after playing the games, maybe you shouldn't even bother with the series to begin with.
Don't tell me what I should enjoy and how I should enjoy it. I love the series, but it's really stupid at times. I still love it despite that, it has soul in it.
I also love reading supplementary materials, but there are way too many for me to just blaze through, and CIel+Ar lore also happens to be the part I haven't touched yet.
And in any case, it's not an excuse. Supplementary materials should be that, supplementary. Even if you put out a lot of that, it should still be interesting lore and more thorough explanations and background, not basic plot points. Basic plot points should be explained in the games, because if they aren't, people get confused about the plot, and a game itself suffers from that, since people are too busy wondering about confusing plot points to go along with its flow and atmosphere.

>>17773205
>Don't tell me what I should enjoy and how I should enjoy it. I love the series, but it's really stupid at times. I still love it despite that, it has soul in it.

It's your own fault if there's something you fail to understand then.

>Supplementary materials should be that, supplementary. Even if you put out a lot of that, it should still be interesting lore and more thorough explanations and background, not basic plot points. Basic plot points should be explained in the games, because if they aren't, people get confused about the plot, and a game itself suffers from that, since people are too busy wondering about confusing plot points to go along with its flow and atmosphere.

A good part of the stuff you said could be inferred just from connecting the dots given in the games themselves, like for example: Zill revived the Genoms from the Quasar and stuffed them into Sharls -> we saw Kanon's soulless vessel near the start of the game in Zill's stronghold -> we saw Zill awakening Cosal's soul from the Quasar when she forced Ion to sing Class::CIEL_NOSURGE; -> we saw Kanon doing the same thing Zill did with stuffing Genom souls into Sharl bodies -> Hypothesis: could it be possible Kanon and Cosal returned because Zil revived them? -> It's confirmed outside the game. It's an entirely different matter if you need everything spelled out though.

But well, as Undu says, you can't force people to mature their souls or to think by themselves, they need to do so on their own.

I feel like Ion is actually a slut

>>17773339
>It's your own fault if there's something you fail to understand then.
Sure it is. Nobody ever gets confused about anything unless they're retarded, of course. Miscommunication doesn't exist.
>But well, as Undu says, you can't force people to mature their souls or to think by themselves, they need to do so on their own.
Fuck you too, then. You aren't really arguing because you assume yourself infallible, but you aren't really explaining either, because you assume your conclusions self-evident. You just assume everyone who isn't thinking exactly like you is retarded.
But really, it's you who stopped thinking long ago.
>Hypothesis: could it be possible Kanon and Cosal returned because Zil revived them?
No shit. But I wasn't arguing about that at any point.
I was arguing that the whole plot point was swept under the rug, and the characters never reacted realistically to it. And Zill shouldn't have been able to do that anyway, if we go by what is told in Ciel. Which too is swept under the rug.
Spelling it out would have actually helped plot a lot. It's not a minor detail.

>>17772561
Can we all agree that Suelle is way cuter than Lydie?

>>17773484
No.

>>17773484
Yes.

Can we all agree that Nay is way cuter than Nei?

Anyone have in the deeps of their storage a copy of "Ari Tonelico?/アリトネルコ?" that you can upload? Finding a "game" that is nearly 10 years old made me lose all this weekend and realized it was a futile search.

>>17773484
They are equally cute. What's even cuter is them together.

>>17773647
Damn I didn't know this was a thing. Now I want it too.

>>17772591
>you shouldn't even need to read supporting materials to understand basic plot points
Are you just ignoring AT? None of the EXA_PICO games work if you ignore the supporting material.

Sure, EXA_PICO fails as standalone games, but they are extremely well-written as a multimedia project.

>>17773411
You take that back

/djt/ here, roughly how much vocab do I need to know before tackling an Atelier game? I was thinking of playing through Arland for some reading practice.

>>17773484
Yes. She actually shows emotions

>>17773601
fuck off nay

>>17773861
Lydie shows emotion.

>>17773927
a faint smile isn't emotion. it's like doing it for a photo

>>17773984
Game isn't even out yet. They're both cute. And here's another expression.

Is Ciel nosurge easy to understand if I have completed core2k

>>17773451
Yep, your idiocy is terminal and incurable.

>>17773999
The script is mostly standard, everyday use Japanese. However, be prepared to bring out the kanji dictionary everytime Ion starts talking about electronics, or Kanon and Renall start talking about politics and bureaucracy.

http://gematsu.com/2017/10/eight-minutes-atelier-lydie-suelle-gameplay

>>17779285
Seem fine. Liane and Firis are still annoying though.

Does Blue Reflection ever stop being boring? I'm in chapter 4 so far and I'm starting to hate the flow of this game, the story is predictable and the girls aren't even that cute. I miss Hidari.

>>17779803
I asked the same question in different thread and was told no.

>>17780238
Well the game crashed on me twice and I think I can still refund it. So in the trash it goes. Hopefully it will be a ps plus game in the future.

>>17779803
If you aren't enjoying it now then just stop. I enjoyed it but I liked it from. The beginning. I also miss Hidari but he's been stolen by Fire Emblem.

>>17779285
https://www.dualshockers.com/atelier-lydie-suelle-gameplay-livestream/
>The game will build upon the open world style of gameplay that was introduced in Atelier Firis

This worries me. I really hope there's a world and town map.

>>17779803
How can you not like Mel?

Also I just watched the stream. The dude is always so goofy.

>>17780681
This "open world is bad" needs to die. Firis had a problems but open world wasn't one of them. The small areas in Shallie and Sophie were the real cancer.

>>17780681
This "open world is bad" meme needs to die. Firis had a problems but open world wasn't one of them. The small areas in Shallie and Sophie were the real cancer.

>>17780701
It was terrible in Firis. Open world works for some games and worked really well for Toukiden 2 for example. But not Atelier. Also, why would you point out just Sophie and Shallie for having small areas? All of Arland, Dusk, and Sophie had small areas with some bigger "main" areas as well. Not just those two. And the real cancer was that it was clear as day that they wasted all their time trying to make an open world for Firis which caused everything else to suffer. They're not great at programming to begin with, smaller areas with some large areas has always been good.

>>17780743
You wrote a big post but didn't explained why it was terrible. And sorry but I don't remember any pre-Shallie atelier having 90% areas this small, feel free to prove me wrong.

>>17780701
Gust do not have the budget or manpower to do open world properly. The smaller areas were infinitely better.

>>17780784
Aren't Gust like literally millionaires by now with all the games they sold?

>>17780784
Hello Gust's community manager, when are you going to hire back Nakagawa?

>>17780787
Their games barely make back their budget. Especially with all of the recent stuff bombing.

>>17780823
Maybe if they made better games they wouldn't bomb

>>17780839
Objection! Nosurge bombed even harder than recent games.

>>17780839
I don't think quality impacts their sales too much. Totori sold well after all.

>>17780851
Totori was fukkin' excellent

>>17780774
And all you did was assume my original post was a meme while incorrectly stating that Shallie and Sophie were the only ones that had smaller areas while also calling them cancer. I'm sorry you don't remember, but yes, the map designs of Sophie and Shallie followed the previous games styles. And open world in Firis was terrible because it fucked up the flow of the game. Here's an example, time limit. Out of all the games to not have a time limit, Firis should've been one of them. Same thing with LP. You want players to explore the beautiful, yet barren and needlessly huge maps? Then don't put them on a time limit and don't force them to constantly have to regenerate LP. I'm not against time limits at all, Totori and Meruru were my favorites for example. But if you want to promote exploration and give the players huge fucking maps to explore, then don't restrict them with time and LP. Of course, you do have plenty of time in the end but you don't know that when you first start the game and it's hard to gauge your progress. Also, fast travel. The fact that you couldn't travel between maps was complete bullshit. They didn't even put campfires at all the zone exits which made it even more tedious. Oh, and since there's no central town and atelier, you have to manually walk around turning in quests instead of reporting them to the bar/tavern/etc. like normal. The actual layout of the towns in the fields were terrible as well. That first little village in the plains was horrible to navigate and all of the towns were like this. I've played Arland, Dusk, and Sophie but Firis was the first one that started to not feel like an Atelier game. The pacing and game flow was completely messed up due to the open world. The portable atelier was really cheap and lifeless as well. It's just this big barren room with nothing in it. It really felt like KT forced them to do open world. And like I said, the maps were visually beautiful but they were empty and needlessly huge. It's about quality over quantity. All the caves were basically the same too. And party members, they just say you're friends but they don't even join you until you get to an inn but the game never even tells you this. Most of the events came after you passed the exam too which made the first half of the game feel empty. Furthermore, they were trying to do an open world while developing BR and Yoru2 as well. That's way too much for them. The writing and characters felt lacking in my opinion and I definitely suspect it's because they were trying to do too much. The combat and alchemy were still good though but even the soundtrack wasn't as good as usual.

There, that's some of why I thought the open world was bad. I think Lydie and Suelle should be better since I think they have a main, central town and atelier this time and I'm hoping the game flow is structured closer to pre-Firis games. I also didn't like EL but I'll admit that the game aspect and soundtrack of it was still good. Firis was the first one where something felt extremely off though, it was very noticeable.

>>17780855
If you compare it to Firis I guess.

>>17780823
Only Yoru2 bombed. Firis and BR both did okay, not phenomenal, but they certainly didn't "bomb".

>>17780851
Totori is one of the best.

>>17780883
Totori is mediocre at best. The structure is shit, giving you only vague goals and throwing tons of boring environments at you. The other games had much better environments. Most of the good characters were from Rorona. The story was okay but the true ending ruined it. The music is weak compared to the other games. The entire game is a slog.

>>17780681
RIP Gust, the arland formula was their best selling, most recognizable, most well received, highest rated game. Then they decide to get as far away from that formula as fast as possible and completely forget about it. Why do devs do this?

>>17780910
Because the Ayesha was better than Arland. The real question is why they fucked it up with the Dusk sequels.

>>17780774
Shallie and Sophie felt small because there were not enough areas, not because the areas were small. Also the lack of time limits "shrinks" the world. In the sense that travel costs you nothing, so something on the opposite side of the map incurs the same cost as a map next to the town. Fast travel in Firis also shrank the world, it would have been fine without time limits if you actually had to walk i back to a place when you fucked up. On the other hand in Totori for example just going to the other town was an investment, the far corners of the world really felt a world apart. I never got that feeling in Firis.

>>17780868
I agree with your points but you just put the blame on open world for every bad feature they implemented, every good feature they took out.

>>17780920
Ayesha was a good game. Arland was a good trilogy.

>>17780868
I agree with almost everything, I hated how they wanted me to explore an empty world with literally copy pasted caves. Shrink it and fill it with shit, make travel count, make it a resource, that will make the world seem big and not empty. Not only that but the environmental visuals in Firis felt really lacking. Even Shallie had a few good looking/Mysterious/moody areas.

>>17780908
Totori was excellent. You're not that anon who thought original Rorona was better, are you? All of the Arland games contributed good characters, I don't know what else to say. Totori, Mimi, Ceci, Filly, and Gerhard are all examples of good new characters introduced in Totori. Totori and Mimi were especially good. Of course you also had Sterk, Rorona, Hagel, and other good characters returning as well. The structure was fine, progressing the game was never an issue and it was step up after original Rorona. In all of the 3D games except Firis, the flow is basically the same: synthesis items, explore gathering areas, watch events. I've never really had to grind too much in any of them nor have I ever had trouble progressing the story or wondering what to do. I have no idea how you thought the goals were vague or unclear. The only structure issue was locking you into an ending once you met the condition for it. The gathering areas were as good as usual as well. They consistently were good throughout the Arland trilogy. And how the fuck did the true ending ruin it? What's wrong with you? It was heart-warming as fuck to find out the the little girl's mom was still alive. And some of the best tracks are in the OST. All three Arland games had excellent soundtracks. Why the fuck would you single out Totori? I don't know what else to say to you. I could replay them to go into more detail since it's been years but I fail to see how you didn't think Totori was good. The Arland games just got progressively better with each entry in my opinion.

>>17780908
Totori's endings made me tear up. I loved the areas, the tie-ins, I think you have a point on the music being mediocre but Totori had amazing original characters. I wish more Atelier games would experiment with bad ends actually being bad instead of the shit they pulled in Ayesha where Nio gets saved no matter what. Getting the bad end in Totori made me emotional and pushed me to get better and get the true end.

>>17780920
Shallie was good though. It had the best combat in the Dusk series in my opinion. I feel like it was the removal of the time limit that always causes the hate towards it. The reality though is that it played the same as always. Ayesha's time limit was so lax that it may have not have existed at all. Shallie had a really strong OST too.

>>17781052
100% Shallie had the BEST atelier ost. Shallie on it's own is a decent Atelier game. The reason it gets hated on is two fold, it was incomplete when it was released. It did not follow up on the loose ends set up in Ayesha and E&L. Dusk had many mysteries and Shallie was supposed to be the crowning jewel of the series. Instead they took away more features, casualized the game, and made it so it had ZERO replayablity. However I honestly blame Ayesha/E&L more, Ayesha brought up the subject of forbidden alchemy hurting the world, you see the constructs and architecture of a long forgotten civilization and then they don't follow it up worth shit and just leave it hanging with Ayesha claiming she was going to learn more. So I though okay, the sequel will follow this up! But FUCK NO, E&L doesn't even have Ayesha in it and she is only vaguely mentioned at by Nio as a wanted alchemist. E&L deserves more blame for the story of dusk not going anywhere than Shallie, but because shallie was the last chance for closure it gets the blame.

Also shallie had the best girls.

>>17781052
Someone clearly hasn't played mana khemia.
When /jrpgg/ was still alive it was mostly blamed for bugs, garbage characters, and not answering any question nor giving a proper ending to trilogy. People even speculated there is going to be 4th game because literally nothing got a conclusion.

>>17781088
Atelier games never have re-playability though, that's not exclusive the Shallie. And seriously, they didn't do anything to "casualize" it. I never understand why there's so much wank about difficulty. Play on the hardest mode and the challenge is the same as always. I didn't really mind the ending since I never really expected some big epic finale. I guess people were mad about Logy not returning but I didn't like EL so him and Escha not being playable weren't a big deal for me. Wilbell continued to be as cute as always though and I really liked the Shallies and Miruca. Also the town bgm was particularly nice. I just really loved the setting for Shallie but I guess that's just me. Honestly I liked it more than Ayesha.

>>17781115
>Atelier games never have re-playability
Are you serious? Have you played ANY atelier game pre Dusk?

>>17781115
The combat was mindless even on hard. Thanks to CFW I was able to unlock NO HOPE from the very beginning but other people probably weren't that lucky.

>>17781115
Arland is fairly difficult without guides, and anything pre arland other than MK and Iris are down right BRUTAL without guides. As for why you didn't expect a big finale it's probably because you didn't play the games when they released and didn't spend months thinking about how they were going to tie the characters and stories together like in arland only to be crushed. Dusk/Mystery babies have it good because they start with the weak games and can go back to play the good ones.

>>17781156
This.

>>17781129
Well, yeah obviously. They don't have replay-ability. I played through Totori twice to get all the endings and Meruru twice because if I remember correctly, the DLC area and true end were locked to NG+. They don't have re-playability because once you see all the content, that's it. They required a little more work to get all the endings and that's it.

>>17781131
Combat was same difficulty as always.

>>17781156
No, I played them on release. The ending was fine in Shallie. And Arland is not difficult without a guide. The only thing you need the guide for is to look up the ending requirements. You never needed to like autistically follow a guide step-by-step or anything. All they did since Meruru and onwards was make it easier get endings which isn't a big deal.

>>17781199
>They don't have replay-ability
>I played Totori Twice

>>17781199
>And Arland is not difficult without a guide.
>The only thing you need the guide for is to look up the ending requirements.

Difficult does not mean impossible. Also, when I say beat the game, I mean post game bosses as well. I don't know a single person that has made min maxed gear and items in Rorona/Totori/Meruru on their first run and didn't miss a single event without a guide.

>>17781156
Ayesha is better than any of the Arland games. Rorona Plus comes close, but Meruru and especially Totori are inferior in pretty much every way. I started the series with Totori and damn near dropped it because of how boring it was.

>>17781304
Ayesha would have been as good as Arland if the combat was better, the bad end was not a cop out, beating Kieth in the fight you were supposed to lose actually meant anything, the best attributes were not easy to get early game (this ruined the game for me), the characters actually interacted as a group rather than just the character and Ayesha, like how Mel teased Gino and Mimi on top of being involved with Totori Ceci, or how Astrid was involved with everyone, Dusk had almost no group events. And, if the final boss was tough enough to actually use all of Maria's bgm time, the time limits were not there just for show, the game was actually challenging, Tanya was playable, and if the story actually went anywhere.

I really liked the Alchemy system in Dusk, and it had the best OST, best art, best visuals and has my wife. However the Arland games are just better games and better stories.

>>17780992
>Not only that but the environmental visuals in Firis felt really lacking.
Yeah, seriously.

>>17781007
>And how the fuck did the true ending ruin it? What's wrong with you? It was heart-warming as fuck to find out the the little girl's mom was still alive.
Not him, but I initially disliked it because I felt like it cheapened what Totori went through, and that's probably why he doesn't like it too. But it eventually grew on me and these days I like it a lot, especially when you consider it as being like a reward for Totori for all of her effort and actions.

>>17780953
>Shallie and Sophie felt small because there were not enough areas, not because the areas were small.
Dude, what? Sophie has a shitload of areas. The problem with Sophie's areas is that they're all so small, and that a bunch of later areas just plainly obsolete earlier areas in terms of quality of gather-able ingredients.
You're spot on about the time investments though.

>>17780908
>The music is weak compared to the other games.
This is where it's really clear that you just have irredeemably bad taste and your opinions are worth nothing.

>>17781375
You don't get to call out Ayesha's combat when every single Arland game had worse. Also the time limits stopped being worth a damn starting with Totori, so Ayesha wasn't the first that only had them "for show". No Gust game is challenging. The lack of a bad ending hurts a little, as do the small amount of group interactions, but not enough to keep it from surpassing the Arland games.

>>17781424
The music was passable but a clear step down from Rorona. And Meruru was a return to form.

>>17781304
Why would you love Ayesha but hate Totori? Ayesha was great precisely because it follows Totori most closely in terms of structure, with a large interconnected map with several towns to move between, and a long time frame with long-term goals that you break down into shorter more immediate goals.

>>17781399
I saw it as a reward for the player for making the effort.

Also, anyone that can should play Atelier Violet, it's my standard for atelier and by far the best gameplay in the series, best map, best Pamela, best dungeons, best/deepest combat, only lacking cute girls and a good bgm, the story starts a little whatever this was still when the games were more character driven but the character events REALLY makes the story grow on you. I love how alchemy opens up new areas and new places besides use x amount of bombs to break y rocks. It felt like you were building up a toolset to overcome problems rather than just make a bomb that does more damage.

>>17781437
I don't hate Totori. I found it mediocre. But Ayesha had better characters, combat, environments/setting, music, and plot IMO. Totori was just boring.

>>17781442
>But Ayesha had better characters, combat, environments/setting, music, and plot IMO.
The plot and characters are the only things I could argue, but even so, I still don't agree with you. Ayesha and Totori are my two favourite games of the series. I don't see Totori as being mediocre at all.

>>17781429
The fuck are you talking about? The music was great across all three games.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qi2sauQ5EBA&list=PL66B708FA81D0D646&index=5
Still the best world map bgm.

>>17781399
It didn't cheapen anything.

>>17781442
How do you even like Ayesha if you found Totori "boring"? It wasn't mediocre in the slightest.

>>17781449
>Still the best world map bgm.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvG4rbQz2BM

Totori's is my second-favourite though.

>>17781449
The game had her growing and learning to cope with her mom's death. Then the true ending says nah fuck that character development your moms fine.

>>17781425
>No Gust game is challenging.
Play Marie and Violet, then come back and tell me that.

Arland had better combat because you couldn't craft god armour 30 min into the game. Time limits in Totori were a bit longer than Rorona, true. But Totori's world was bigger and you often had to go from one town to another, it is possible to miss quests and events, unlike in Ayesha where it's pretty much impossible.

But lets get to the real issues because difficulty is relative. The lack of group character events, the lack of a bad end, and the lack of closure on all the shit it hinted at but never explored and lack of intergration with the trilogy is what keeps it in the rank of E&L and Shallie for me, flaws arland games do not have.

>>17781462
Totori still developed as a character, Gisela coming back doesn't change that.

>>17781469
>it is possible to miss quests and events, unlike in Ayesha where it's pretty much impossible.
I would have gotten the true ending in Ayesha on my first run, but I decided to go save Nio before doing Keith's dungeon quest, since I figured that made more sense in the game. And then I got screwed over for it.

>>17781469
It's idiotic to fault Ayesha for things the sequels failed to do. Even with the lack of closure Ayesha still presented far more compelling material than any Arland game.

You guys are all off base, the real reason Ayesha sucks is because mai husbando didn't get an ending.

>>17781453
I just explained in the post you quoted. The setting, characters, and combat were better. The carrots the plot dangled in front of you were better motivation than Totori's. The map was also less of a clusterfuck and areas were doled out in ways that made sense, where in Totori the game just dumped random shit on you with no rhyme or reason.

>>17781478
All it did was make vague and obscure remarks about old alchemy and never followed up. That's it, otherwise it was just like Totori trying to find her mother, except Ayesha was looking for Nio.

>>17781487
>The map was also less of a clusterfuck and areas were doled out in ways that made sense, where in Totori the game just dumped random shit on you with no rhyme or reason.
Explain.

>>17781493
It made the map linear and sectioned it off into clear sectors, which was something I really didn't like about Dusk in general.

>>17781499
The map wasn't linear in Ayesha. In Escha & Logy it was but not Ayesha.

>>17781499
Ayesha's map was good, but E&L's map was fucking horrid, with it just being four lines going out from the town with no connectivity.
But I don't see Ayesha's map as being particularly divided up compared to Totori. Both of them had two main towns with lots of areas around them and connected paths around, making planning a route out and back important, and both games had an area cut off from the rest of the map and self-contained (the salt flats in Ayesha, the southern country in Totori). Ayesha also had the mining town which you don't use much and Ayesha's old atelier, so it was a bigger map in general, but it really just followed on from the same design principles in general.

Also I was mostly wondering about him saying how areas were given to you.

>>17781505
It is for the majority of the game until you can unlock short cuts for easier back tracking but the progression was very linear, especially at the start of the game.

I don't know about you guys, but I spent a lot of time in Ayesha just moving between towns trying to figure out what I had to do to trigger the next event to open up more areas.

>>17781528
The game literally tells you what to do.

How dare they, legit pissed me off.

>>17782056

>>17782255
>posts in jp
>doesn't read moonrunes

You need to go back.

>>17782268
I can 1CC PCB though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gifr3m_f47U

Gameplay from the stream the other day in 1080p and without people talking.

>>17784487
Already saw enough to know I'm not buying the game.

>>17784498
K, thanks for sharing.

http://dengekionline.com/elem/000/001/611/1611921/

It's 95% done and they don't plan on delaying it this time.

>>17784487
Looks pretty good.

>>17769958
I didn't expect the doujin songs to be that good

>>17784487
I'm a little concerned about Lydie's voice. It's not bad but it's somewhat different than I was expecting. That "wai zehizehi" bit really didn't seem right. She sounded good during synthesis and in the promo video though. I just hope they don't try to force the cuteness too much. It should be more natural. I hope we get more gameplay soon because I'd really like to see the twins interact with each other. At the very least I still think they're both better than Firis. She's 19 but she acts younger than both of them in this video. I don't know why Gust is giving their lead roles to new seiyuu. Time will tell, it's still too early to judge their performance and how the twins will actually be with just this short clip.

>>17785569
> I don't know why Gust is giving their lead roles to new seiyuu

Isn't that what they always do?

>>17785645
You know, I'm not actually sure. Maybe I just don't like Firis's seiyuu and that's it. I watched the video again and I think Lydie should work out fine.

>>17785806
So it looks like for Arland they used VAs that were already up and coming, in dusk Ayesha's va was already known, Escha's VA's career really took off after her role in E&L, Hime Shallie/Shallotte were the same. Aisaka, Sophie's VA was a nobody doing work for mobage called princess connect when she got picked up, she had a great radio show that got cut short because of that. I honestly don't care about Firis or Lydie. As for pre Arland games a lot of the main heroins seemed to be fresh in their careers.

>>17785645
less expensive.
going for popular VAs get costly fast.
high 10 new girls for the cost of one hanakana.

>>17786366
Depends on what you're doing. They'll work for cheap if it is an eroge

>>17787968
>They'll work for cheap if it is an eroge
Most popular seiyuu probably wouldn't do eroge, especially not for cheap.

>>17788019
Sometimes they do.

>>17788032
Sure some might, but many seiyuu try to keep an idol-like public appearance. Low budget eroge would cheapen that in many cases.

>>17788129
Imai Asami is an Idolmaster and she still did hentai work as late as 2015 (Shin Koihime)

Cute.

Sophie's always wearing those stylish big jackets, it's almost lewd seeing her arms out

>>17788577
For a moment I thought Firis is grabbing Liddy's armpit/sideboob
Also damn, she's so stacked

>>17788322
imai asami also does noire from idolmaster. shes a real thirsty bitch in heat when she does eroge though.

>>17788322
imai asami also does noire from neptunia. shes a real thirsty bitch in heat when she does eroge though.

>>17788625
Firis is soft.

>>17788663
Firis is 100% more puni now!

>>17788681

>>17788577
The twins are so cute.

Can you be gay in this game?

>>17789534
Yes.

https://www.gamecity.ne.jp/atelier/lydie/character02.html
https://www.gamecity.ne.jp/atelier/lydie/character01.html

Looks like they added voice clips for Lydie, Suelle, Sophie, and Firis. Cute indeed.

I wish they'd reveal the Toranoana bonus already so I can decide where to place my pre-order. Thinking I'll probably go with Sofmap and get the Lydie tapestry and buy the Suelle one separately. The 20th anniversary box is just too expensiveness and you don't really get much extra.

>>17790092

Really, really cute. Sophie's as cute as ever!

Also noticed there still aren't any bgm previews on the site.. Was kinda hoping for a full version of (presumably) the Atelier theme.

>>17790150
Yeah, I don't know why this has been the only site without any preview bgms yet. I like the Atelier theme so far though.

Which Atelier games are actually worth playing?

>>17790413
Arland and Dusk trilogies. Maybe Sophie.

>>17790413
What are you looking for?
Gameplay/Story/characters?

>>17790413
Definitely the Arland and Dusk trilogies. Play the Plus versions if you can. Mana Khemia games too. Maybe Sophie. If you love Sophie you might get some enjoyment out of Firis. Iris games are no good. No clue about the older ones.

>>17790579
comfy

>>17790581
Really can't go wrong with the Arland games.
Its a great intro to the series.

>>17790413
Can say Arland Plus and some Dusk plus was great. Sophie's comfy and was alot better than I thought it was going to be going into it. I'll definitely say don't make Firis your -first- though, will most likely be a bad first impression

>>17790413
The Arland Plus games are all great, and Ayesha+ is great. The rest range from passable to bad.

>>17790413
Rorona Plus, Meruru Plus, and Ayesha Plus

>>17791039
>Leaving out Totori Plus

>>17791045
Totori Plus runs like poop, otherwise I would have listed it. I didn't play the PS3 original version so I don't know if that's any better.

>>17791098
Totori+ ran a lot better than Ayesha+ and Rorona+ though.

>>17791176
Are you sure? I haven't played Totori Plus since maybe a few months after it released but I remember it having significant performance issues where the others were mostly minor.

>>17791194
I had low frame rates in Totori+ but that's all, and all the games had that. Rorona+ I had lots of crashes in, and Ayesha+ I had a few crashes and issues with NPCs and enemies taking up to 40 seconds to load in after the map did.

>>17791210
Were they patched? I remember them all having framerate issues but no crashes or anything like that. But I didn't get around to playing them until a little while after release.

>>17791230
I got all of them at or close to release and I don't believe any of them ever received patches in the weeks it took me to beat them. But that could just be because KT doesn't give a shit about Australia.

How is Atelier Firis?
Is it as boring as Sophie?
Does it have the time limit or not?

>>17791098
Original Totori ran fine on PS3, no framerate issues or anything like that. Those started with Atelier Meruru when they introduced fancy lighting and stuff like that.

>>17781429
Really? I think Totori had the best music of the trilogy. Meruru had good music too, but not as good as Totori's.

>>17781399
>like a reward for Totori for all of her effort and actions.
How? Gisela returning had zero to do with anything Totori did. She could've stayed at home for those five years and she would've returned just the same. With Gisela returning, Totori's search for her mother became even more futile, as even the benefit of causing her to accept her mother's death became meaningless with this development.

Also can we use spoiler tags at least for ending discussion for those who haven't played the games being discussed yet?

>>17791437.
>Also can we use spoiler tags at least for ending discussion for those who haven't played the games being discussed yet?
I didn't think it was necessary seeing as how the game's a good 6-7 years old but I'll try to remember to use them in the future.

>Started Firis
>Some guys bulling a historian trying to protect ancient ruins
>Tell them there is nothing of value in the ruins
>They say we wont find out until we smash it all
>tell them to fuck off
>they fuck off
>proceed to smash up vases and throw bombs everywhere
>actually find valuable shit

Why is Firis such a hypocritical cunt? Talking about silent labyrinth. I kinda miss when using bombs in ruins and dungeons would cause them to collapse, would have been a good mechanic for Firis.

>>17793638
Nothing wrong with making ruins collapse, anon

>>17793848
Aren't you a wanted fugitive Ayesha?

>>17791437
You don't get the true ending if you don't do anything, though.

You can't spell "disgusting" without "gust"

So I finished Ar Nosurge, was magnificent, but was wondering if someone could give me some more background on Nelo.

I figured alot would be answered in Ciel Nosurge but I've yet to sit down with that one yet, and was hoping for some info on her since I felt some of the things about her were kinda ambiguous. Mainly looking for the difference between her and Ion's arrival/treatment. And is there anymore info on her background past learning her real name? She was alot more interesting than I thought she'd be going in, but I felt like alot was left out, despite all the teasing that was given during her purification topics.

Will Gust ever give us a male MC again?

>>17794616
They already have?

>>17794641
Am I retarded or living under a ton of rocks? Ateliers and Nights of Azure are obviously not what you're talking about.

>>17794661
Sophie was actually a guy all along.

>>17794532

Well, Nelo was basically summoned and shoved into a tube to be a computer battery for thousands of years. Ion was treated like a princess in comparison. The endgame teasing from Nelo is really fanservice/building on her story from Ciel nosurge.

>>17794616
Hopefully not.

>>17794995
I hope they do. Then again I'm not Gust's target playerbase. I only like the Ar Tonelico series. I tried getting into the Atelier and the more recent Azure series but I found it boring.

>>17795018
Okay well I only care about Atelier and the last thing I want are male MCs.

>>17795038
Just to make sure you haven't misunderstood me I didn't want male MC's in the Atelier series. That's a big no.

>>17795043
Ah my bad.

Any new Lydie and Suelle info or streams coming up before release? Not too hot on the six revealed being it potentially

>>17795043
But Logy was the only good thing about his game. Male MCs aren't a problem in Atelier, shitty games are.

>>17793933
The player doesn't get the true ending. Totori definitely does.

>>17794771
Wrong. Nero only had that role for a couple decades, as the Cielnotron Server was a pretty recent invention.

When she was summoned, she was stuffed into an artificial body, forced to sing a version of the Fuser, and then made to live a whole life in Ra Ciela until that body died from natural causes. She then spent several millennia as a disembodied soul until Genomirai found her, bound her to her current body, and after several failed experiments, they decided to use her as an imitation Genom through the Cielnotron system.

So out of all the Atelier protagonists which one is the most skilled alchemist?

>>17795699
Meruru? I dunno, maybe Ateliers from older games also made elixir of youth, but from the recent games she seems most broken
Dusk alchemists are fucked over by their dying world though, it might not be fair to compare

>>17795699
That will really depend on what we see Sophie pull off in the next title.

Rorona and Ayesha had enough skill to attract similar mentors, but it's not really confirmed that they are successful students (I've not yet played Shallie Plus, so I could be missing something important about Ayesha).

>>17796026
Didn't Astrid pick Rorona precisely because she was incompetent?

>>17795285
I assume this is custom? It sucks that only Totori got a Nendo. Even a line of petites would have been nice.

>>17796723
Astrid probably picked Rorona because she liked her, Totori would've been a more skilled apprentice.
However, Astrid most likely doesn't concern time to be an issue, alongside Totori and Meruru having their own obligations.

Between the extra chapter in Rorona Plus, and the time/age experimenting in Meruru, I thought it seems pretty clear that Astrid was trying to create some kind of loop where she could continuously study. Maybe the goal is to eventually teach the best possible 'Rorona'

>>17795699
Astrid is probably the strongest alchemist she can bend space and created an elixir of eternal youth just to keep her pupil cute. But among the protags it's probably Judie seeing as she is a fucking Time Lord.

If possible I'd like to get the Atelier 20th anniversary premium box for the sophie+firis artbook.
Has anyone seen it up for pre-order on any enlish resellers yet? Is it likely to be added for overseas audiences?
Or should I just ask tenso or some shopping service to just get it from the official website?

>>17796907
nm google says japan exclusive. Might get it anyway, is anyone else planning to?

>>17796856
>Judie
>The same girl who messed up a time manipulation item's synthesis because she let one of her hairs drop into the cauldron.

Yeah, I'm not sure she'd qualify for skilled or powerful just from that.

>>17797124
She could go back in time and kill her opponents before they are even born.

>>17795285
There will be more party members. Probably 9 or 10 total. Maybe even 11 or 12 but definitely not more than that. I like the twins and Sophie but I still need another 3 party members.

>>17797278
She'd fling herself a thousand years into the future instead if she tried that.

>powerlevels in my gust thread
I want to get off.

Is ar nosurge worth playing if I already been spoiled on the twist?

>>17798104
Sure, plot isn't strongest part of the series anyway.

Do you think Ion did stuff like compensated dating when she was just a normal high school student?

>>17798248
>>17768904

No.

Is Mana Khemia Good

>>17798470
Honestly my favorite Gust game

>>17798470
Yeah, play it on an emulator if possible and crank the CPU speed up to remove the annoying slowdown that plagued it on original hardware

Are all of the "Plus" versions of the PS3 atelier games the superior versions? Or are some of them better off going with the PS3 version for better resolution and performance?

>>17798863
Go with the PS3 versions. The Plus versions are basic ports except Rorona Plus but that's on PS3 too.

>>17798863

Escha & Logy as well as Shallie have changes to the story outside of just being vita ports. E&L was mostly just the whole Relationship option and follow-up While the Shallie ports changes were almost like the original game was missing 50% of the storyboard.

>>17798829
Does that happen on the psp version?

>>17799058
I remember hearing the PSP version had some problems a long time ago but can't remember what they were or if they were related to the slowdowns the PS2 one had

>>17798863
You should avoid Totori plus, it was the first plus game on the vita and it shows, the performance is horrible. You should also avoid the plus dusk games, they are slide shows, never above 20 fps. The only exception is Shallie because Shallie's story in plus is MUCH better, the performance is garbage though.

Shin Rorona plus on the ps3 is a great starting place. Then Totori ps3, then Meruru plus on the vita. If you want to get real technical there are reason not to start with shin Rorona plus but play Original Rorona -> Totori -> Meruru -> Shin Rorona but I think it's BS and you should just start with Shin Rorona Plus.

So in my opinion, Shin Rorona Plus (ps3), Totori (ps3), Meruru Plus (vita), Ayesha (ps3), E&L (ps3), Shallie Plus (vita), everything after ps4.

>>17799063
The only problems I'm having with MK on the psp is reading the text, it's horribly small.

How many chapters are in BR? I just finished that slut Shiori. The game really isn't that good and it's extremely budget. I just keep wishing I was playing Atelier while playing it. Sophie has indeed been their best PS4 game. Yuzu and Lime are cute and are wasted on this game, thank god we're getting more twins in the next Atelier. The fanservice is also very distasteful. The battle system is okay and the music is good but overall the game is just so cheaply done and as I expected, it's too melodramatic.

>>17799077
I still think its better to play original rorona first and meruru on ps3. Always go with originals for Arland but thats just my opinion. The games just dont run well on Vita and look better on a monitor or larger.

>>17799235
12 I believe.

>>17799058
Don't play psp version, it have less voiced lines and looks like a garbage.

>>17799235
It's not great but it's definitely better than Sophie. YnnK was as well. The PS4 Ateliers have been their weakest games on the system.

>>17799342
Not in the slightest. Sophie was a quality game, how could you possibly think these are better? Firis was weak but Sophie was good.

>>17799412
Sophie was a big step down from the previous games. It also had a terrible cast outside of Sophie herself. It's not as bad as Firis but it's definitely not good.

They all are fucking garbage, there is no good gust game on ps4.

>>17799414
No it wasn't. Shallie was a step up after EL and Sophie was even better. And the cast was great. Sophie, Plachta, Corneria, Tess to name a few. The problem is that you're just tired of Atelier most likely. They didn't overbloat the cast and overall it was solid. Way better than BR, no question about it. BR is an okay little time killer but that's it. Yoru is just trash.

>>17799414

Not that anon but

Honestly the step down was Shallie, if not Escha's. The Shallie's friendship had no real basis and pretty much every introduced character outside of like, maybe Mirucah boring as hell. Everytime Jurie started talking I just knew it was going to just drag on. Not even talking about how hypocritical all of them were when it came to " Paying back our debt for the outsiders that have saved our lives "

Not saying Sophie was some over the top premium game but, I at least enjoyed the interactions Sophie had with some characters like Harol and his growth. The story felt short but it didn't make me feel like it was trying to be anything it wasn't.

BR was alright though, well Yuzu and Raimu at least

>>17799430
You are wrong because I think otherwise.

>>17788577
FUCKING SOPHIE WHY IS SHE ALWAYS SO SMUG

>>17798248
Fuck off with this. Ion is love.

>>17798135
Are you stupid or what?

There are no bad Atelier games. They are all comfy and cute.

Is the Ciel nosurge youtube playthrough worth watching? Or do you lose too much without having all the dating sim aspects so it's not so interesting in that form? Already played Ar nosurge.

>>17798104

Playing it isn't the same thing as just reading it, so it's worth it. That said, playing it without checking out the Ciel nosurge translation videos first is a bad idea.

>>17799628
Firis begs to differ.

>>17799635
Firis is cute... in the butt!

>>17799624
Now this is intelligent post.

>>17799632
you could check it out and see if it's entertaining for you.
not the same a playing the game though.

>>17799633

Just how much are we missing out on if we play with the translation videos though?

>>17799632
It's worth watching/reading unless you plan on playing it yourself in the future. You'll lose the opportunity of experiencing the game unspoiled.

>>17799636
Your post is almost as bad as Firis' game.

How bad is Firis?

>>17799798
Really bad. Shallow characters who barely interact with each other and most events only have Firis and Liane in them because of how the party system in it works, stupid plot developments, runs like crap and looks like crap too, the open world is empty and a chore to explore, the music changes way too quickly, the battle system's special attack system is incredibly stupid, and the time management is poorly done because they just slap you with a year at the start and you have no way to know how long things will take you to do. Oh, and they also got rid of Sophie's cauldron system and replaced it with grinding synthesis levels for each item to be able to put traits on them and rotate them in creation.
It's just a lot of bad decisions all in one game and I don't know how it happened.

>>17799907
>Oh, and they also got rid of Sophie's cauldron system
What the fuck that was the one thing I liked about Sophie

>>17799663
Only the interactions with Ion. Seeing the memory scenes shown in the videos is far more critical for understanding the setting, story and characters.

>>17800087
I know, right? Firis has catalysts as a replacement, where you use another item as a catalyst, but everything is still in a 5x5 grid. Instead there are shapes on the grid that give you effects if you fill all the squares they take up, but they're not very interesting. And like I said, it also adds levels to each individual item, and you earn exp for them when you make them or other items in a group (making a bomb gives exp to all other bombs, for example), but it's a horrible system. Until you reach the first level you can't add traits at all, and then as it levels up you get more at once, and can move ingredients around more when placing them in the grid.
I really liked Sophie's alchemy system, but Firis' one took everything good about it and threw it away.

>>17800094
F U C K
Oh well may as well play Rorona, Meruru, Escha & Logy and Shallie.
They're all good right?

>>17800173
The first two are.

>>17800173
Might as well just play them all at that point they're not too long.
Totori and Ayesha are my two favorite of the PS3-era games, it's kind of weird to see them excluded.

>>17800177
E&L was great.
Shallie I'll at least agree was lacking in some ways, but still managed to have one of the most enjoyable crafting and combat systems.

>>17800465
>E&L was great.
I really don't know how you could actually think this. E&L was a fucking mess in everything but the combat system.

>>17800173
Play all of them and form your own opinion. They're trilogies, you don't just play one. All of Arland is good.

>>17800465
So far I have enjoyed all of dusk's crafting systems, especially shallie's. What I don't like is how they put important traits in items you get from doing quest or stores in ayesha ansd eschalogy, but shallie might as well not have had quests at all with at all with how bad the rng generated get this kill that quest system was. I guess what I liked most was Meruru because you had static quests that feel like part of the story and rng generated quests. Ayesha and Firis have good questing, I do like the bar/hub system in the old games and Shallie/Sophie but it needs to be supplemented by static quests from the inhabitants of the world.

>>17800474
>E&L was a fucking mess in everything but the combat system.
The mood of the world and how it contrasts with the warmth of the interactions, it's effective. I feel like Ar Nosurge's development really rubbed off on the game. The only real upset was the lack of development in some side stories and characters.

>>17800950
>What I don't like is how they put important traits in items you get from doing quest or stores in ayesha ansd eschalogy
Firis was the most strict about this, but I feel like it added a stronger value to the highest tier traits. Some of the traits are exceptionally rare as well.

'Truth Memory' for example you only get once and there's no way to loop/clone it. So obtaining and working out how to use it the most effective way brings a good sense of accomplishment.

>>17800465
I mean I already played Ayesha and Tototototototori.
So for Rorona should I play the original or Shin Rorona

>>17802071
Wouldn't recommend playing the original Rorona unless you want to complete every Atelier or particularly love Rorona.

Amazon got me yorukuni2 a day early. I'm playing the Switch version. AMA

>>17802849
Just give your impressions. If you played the original, how does it compare? How does it run/look on Switch? I'm getting it for both PS4 and Switch but they won't arrive until tomorrow.

>>17802912
I've only played in handheld mode so far but the game looks great. It does have some fps dips, but I'm willing to bet that is only in handheld mode. Gust fucking cheaped out when porting it thought. They didn't bother to change the button layout for Nintendo consoles so the A button is cancel and it keeps fucking with me.

>>17802926
Glad to hear it runs fairly well. I'm looking forward to playing it, although I have Yomawari coming too so that might get priority.

Do arland trilogy have a lot of missable/hard to find events? Any general tips to try to see as much as possible in my first run without a guide?

>>17803219
Yes.
Don't just stick to the same party members all the time, change up your party often.

>>17803219

Mimi's got alot of events lined up so you end up keeping her with you pretty much the whole time if you don't want to miss anything with her desu.

do you think atelier games are comfy

>>17803352
At least Mimi is a good party member

>>17803378
I love Mimi.

>>17803396
Get off of /jp/, Totori.

>>17803398
no

I love Totori!

>>17803527
We know, Mimi.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-YtwqF6nZ4

That couldn't possibly be...

I see pink where the head should be and gold where her arms might end.

>>17803636

That call-back to Sophie's drinking curiosity in her game, that's adorable as hell.

>>17803644

!!! PLEASE bring Cory back agh I hope you're right Anon. I wonder if she'll be even shorter

>>17803713
I want her back as long as she remains an eternal loli meaning she's still flat and short. She actually has an in-game reason for being eternally short which is her alchemy.

And no one here remembered Ar tonelico II's tenth anniversary.

>>17803713
What if she stays short but grows tits? She's an adult now after all, especially with all the milk she's been drinking

>>17804034
What if she grows tall but stays flat?

>>17804034
What if she grows tall, stays flat but gets thicc thighs, wide hips and a phat butt?

>>17804059
impossible, unless she quit her alchemy
>>17804062
pic related

>>17804083

>>17804083
And there we go

So for the Arland trilogy the correct order is (Shin) Rorona > Totori >Merurururu?

>>17804393
Rorona > Totori > Meruru >Shin Rorona

Rorona is good enough to play twice, and anyone who says the original version isn't worth playing is a fool.

>>17804397
But I don't have a copy of the original

More Lydie being cute.

The twins mom (who's dead already), Mathias's sister, and Grace introduced this week.

>>17795285
I think I was wrong saying "there will be more party members" earlier. I'm not quite sure but people in the 5ch thread are saying its fixed at 6 with no replaceable members. This is bullshit if true, why would they do this?

>>17805546
>who's dead already
Why bother designing her then? Or this is gonna be a case of potato alchemists reviving the dead? Ed's mom.txt

>>17805546

If it's really fixed that's just, why. It's not even like I'm saying the two new guys aren't good it's just, it feels like such a small number with it being locked at 6. Taking Plachta out already makes no sense (currently) but at this point it's like they said " Woah, Mysterious saga MCs +2 randoms will save the day!" ...In what's supposed to be the -finale- ?

>>17805664
The only reason I could think of is that more party member = more possible combinations for the special combo attacks. It's still bullshit though, I want Plachta and Lucia in my party. Shallie had 6 combat members but still had a total of 9 playable party members I think. It's possible that they're simply going to jew us over and make us buy them through DLC. Either way, I would need that DLC to be available on the English release and not after I play and beat the game.

>>17805683

I'm pretty sure it's the combination thing too, development cuts or w/e, it's definitely bs. For the comparison iirc yeah Shallie had 8 base chars after you got Keith, and then two more DLC with Solle and Escha. So 10 total, then with the inclusion of Ayesha and Logy in Plus that'd end up being twice the head-count ( of course that's Shallie Plus )

But even Meruru had 12, everything at least post Totori has given you a roster to mess around with if you just, didn't want to use some chars. It'd be fine if it was the start of a trilogy or something, but on a " Part 3 " it just makes no sense to me. Maybe I've just become too spoiled.

I'm glad Sophie's playable at least in the end, that would've been bad in it's on right otherwise.

>>17805714
Well, I hope I'm wrong. I was only browsing the 5ch thread with google translate but it sounds like they were unclear about an answer from Hosoi from an interview in the recent scans. Hopefully tomorrow will clear things up. Maybe he meant that there's only a maximum of 6 with no replacements on the field but you can still change members in town or something. I don't know. If that is Corneria above then she'd be an obvious party member choice as well.

>>17805752
Pretty sure it's something like that. Say 4 fighters 2 supports. They need to have Sophie, Prafta, Firis, Liane, Lydie and Suelle, minimum. It could also be that 6 refers to the number of new playable characters, which while small I would not mind if they are well done. I only cared about 3 of characters in Firis (Firis, Liane,
Ilmeria) and only Sophie and Prafta in Sophie. The rest of the side characters were too shallow and under developed for me to care about them. Character ends are dead in Atelier for me. They have gotten worse and worse since Ayesha.

Being Sterk is suffering ;_;

Here's that interview.

These two little retards are already adorable.

Since they're using this for the normal version, I wonder what the premium box art will be.

>>17810710
Am I reading this right? Please tell me my Japanese is bad.

Q. In Firis you needed to swap party members, what about this game?

The max party size is 6 and only 6 characters can participate in battles, so there is no need for swapping. However you can change who will go in the rear rank. The battle system revolves around finding the best combination of front and rear pairs.

Just fuck my atelier up fampai.

>>17810883
That still might be unclear though. We really need at least 8. Combination arts should just be set and specific that way they don't need to have one for every possible combination. I'm all for quality over quantity but 6 fixed members is disappointing. Lucia screams party member, it makes no sense why she wouldn't join and pretty much all Mysterious series fans want Plachta in as well.

>>17810920
バトルに参加できるキャラクターは6人のため...

Because the amount of characters are able to participate in battles is 6.... (there is no need for swapping. )

I don't see the ambiguity. I trust me I want to be wrong.

>>17810920 #
バトルに参加できるキャラクターは6人のため...

Because the amount of characters that are able to participate in battles is 6.... (there is no need for swapping. )

I don't see the ambiguity. I trust me I want to be wrong.

Why is Gust screwing over Atelier?

>>17810977
Maybe he's high. Maybe I'm going to have to only have 3 people in my party, thanks Gust.

>>17811027
It's not Gust, it's KT.

>>17811074
Why is KT screwing over Gust?

>>17811075
It's ostensibly easier to make profit if you shit out lots of cheap games quickly than quality games slowly. Just look at Neptunia.

>>17811035
>Maybe he's high

Whoever though it was a good idea sure was. Then again Firis bombed and it's character events sucked so hard that maybe reducing the scope of the game will do Gust some good. If the character events are moving, related to the plot, not all about sweets and sharing food and cute girls doing cute things (some are good but Firis had more food scenes than fsn), actually finished character arcs, and actual character development. Then I would be good. How many of you think even half of those are going to happen?

>>17811086
What's wrong with nepnep?

>>17811115
Nothing, nep games used to be really, really shit. Now they are almost decent. Gust used to make really, really good games. Now they are almost good.

>>17811027
Well things were looking good but now I'm getting worried about the lack of playable characters. If you're going to have 6 members in combat, then it should be obvious that you need more total playable characters to give the player more options. I really was not expecting that the party would be fixed. And I'm still worried about whether there's a world map or not. I wish they would give us info on this already. Large areas are fine but they should be connected on a traditional world map. This is supposed to be the 20th anniversary, there's no reason put aspects from Firis into the game. What I want to know is what happened to Yoshito Okamura. Why is he not directing?

>>17811088
>>17810883
>>17810920
>>17810977

I'm hoping with the rest of you that it's just some weird translation but, looking at the " Who can equip this item " chibi things that've been here since at least Sophie... may be time to throw in the towel

Unless whoever was taking the screenshot for this SPECIFICALLY made sure to only include shown-off playable characters. Only hope left is DLC I guess.. damn

>>17811176
There's still room below that for a second row. I don't think the character icon shows up until that person can join you.

>>17811115
They're shit games that recycle assets more than RPGMaker.

>>17811176
The combat screenshots also only show the same 6 characters.

>>17811185
You know, I think you are right. I think the other characters will be DLC.

>>17811209
They should just push the game back a month or two and include more members in the base game. I can wait.

>>17811163
Unless they've improved dramatically since the Rebirth games they're still really, really shit.

>>17811225
If they haven't actually added any other characters then it would take much longer than "a month or two" to do that, unless you want shit like E&L/Sophie/Firis again where they barely talk or do anything.

Maybe there will be an upside to the party limit? Maybe encounters will be balanced for the party's abilities since it's always the same characters and well finally get a new Atelier where you can't faceroll everything.

>>17811267
In before "[old games] were bad, but [newest game] is actually really good!"; the same thing they say every time a new game comes out.

>>17811277
Well no, I mean they'd add existing characters like Plachta and Lucia as combat members. They already have events, they just push the game back to make them playable.

Was base Shallie really that unfinished?

>>17811277
I meant in the sense of they want you to pay for them.

>>17811311
I think they will probably go the route of all the events are there and buying the dlc just makes the characters playable. Like some of the characters in Nep games.

>>17811331
>I think they will probably go the route of all the events are there and buying the dlc just makes the characters playable. Like some of the characters in Nep games.
Atelier's been doing this for years already, you just wouldn't have noticed if you were playing the Plus versions.

>>17810720
this is indecent

Anyone else enjoying Nights of Azure 2? I love the yuri between the characters, it's so cute!

>>17814688
I got ynnk for "free" with psplus and never even finished it. Gust doesn't make good action games. Doesnt matter how cute the events are if the gameplay is so boring I can't bring myself to play it.

>>17814688
I didn't get to start it yet. I'm trying to wrap up post game in Danganronpa V3 before I move on. I really liked the first one so I'm looking forward to playing it.