/jp/ - Otaku Culture

I believe he is. Each character is distinctive and easily recognizeable by several distinctive features and passes the silhouette test. Everyone in the famous Bad Apple video, for instance, is easy to recognize once you even have a rudimentary grasp of Touhou characters. Lots of his characters are colorful and distinctive too.

As for the second question, I think Kasen is a brillant design and one of his best. I also like Reimu, quite frankly.

>>17623339
Favorites have got to be either Mokou,Tenshi or Puffy dress Yukari.

>>17623339
>Is ZUN a good character designer?

Even Benben and Yatsuhashi look unique compared to other series, so I think so.

>>17623339
Id say characters from fighting games like Tenshi have the best designs. I guess it's because he has more time to design them.

They tend to lean a bit on the odd side (frilly dresses and weird hats seem like overdesign at times), but for the most part they're aesthetically pleasing and distinguishable from one another. That being said, ZUN has made a decent amount of character designs I outright dislike; Koakuma, Chen, and Okina come to mind off the top of my head.

I can't decide whether I like Yuuka, Tenshi, or Koishi's design the most. They all look elegant and have soothing color schemes, and are relatively simple compared to a lot of other characters.

>>17623645
Speaking of Koishi, I like how ZUN made the Komeijis wear the inverted color schemes of each other.

>>17623391
Dr. Victor Frankenstein and Mr. Kekarooni, please cool off and return to this board later.

I think so, I think his character designs are fantastic. They are all easy to distinguish and unique, while still being very good-looking and colorful. The designs can be rather... different in both good and bad ways, and I feel that they can be rather overdesigned (e.g. Utsuho). The good ones certainly outweigh the bad ones, though. I really admire his designs.
As for my favorites, well, it's a toss-up between Satori, Hecatia and Aunn. Before someone says it, yes, I very much like Hecatia's design; sue me.

>>17623339
His skill as a character designer is the only reason Touhou is relevant.

They look like a bunch of random crap slapped together.

Koishi's design is amazing.

>>17623339
I'd say so. He's really good at choosing color palettes that complement eachother when designing characters, and a lot of the outfits the 2hus wear usually give clues as to what kind of person/creature they are without being too obvious. Also as someone else already pointed out, a majority of the cast have pretty distinct silhouettes. My personal favorite 2hus in terms of design have to be Reimu, Tenshi, Seija, and the Komeiji sisters.

>iz zun a good character deisgner
yes
>is zun good music composer
i say hes worst of the best videogame music composers
>is zun good writer
no

There are many good ones.
I'll go with Miko

>>17626784
Not as good without the cape.

Those bracelets and anklets are definitely A+ touches though.

>>17624513
I disagree. He is a pretty good composer as well.

>>17623339
Tough question (the second question, the first answer is yes).

My first thought is Eternity, because she's extremely pretty. However, my top picks otherwise as a whole package include Reimu, Kasen, and Suika. I have a hard time choosing which of these three is my favorite. My gut tells me Reimu, but I really enjoy Kasen's outfit, but Suika's is bother meaningful and badass, and all of them have nice physical features.

Eh fuck it, let's say Reimu.

>>17623645
>Chen
Why?

As for Okina, she's basically just dressed as she should be dressed. Then again, Junko-ish looks.

>>17623645
Yuuka a shit. Same goes for Kokoro. You guys know deep inside that those plaid design better off be something else, something more traditional, to make more sense.

>>17623645
Okina is based on Matarajin, her clothes and all. I don't think it's bad at all.

i think his character designs are what keep people drawing them despite his own "charming" art style. the secondary market exists because lots of people enjoy how they look, not how they play, and ultimately that's a good thing for the continued survival of the playerbase
and i think seiga is one of his best designs, understated yet nice

>>17626972
Just good music doesn't garner a video game series a massive fanbase, and it's largely due to the characters that good songs are associated with that they become popular. The main thing ZUN is selling is his characters, and everything else, no matter how good or bad it is, plays a supporting role to them.

>>17623339
Yes, and who else but Kogasa?

>>17627405
I only just now recognized the infinity symbol imagery.

>>17623339
Yep he is actually. He doesn't rely on fanservice or copypasting popular designs like most LNs and mobages and he's good with silhouettes and colors. He incorporates concepts in creative ways (like conveying iku and yamame animals through their clothing, rather than making them monster-girls), and he gives each character distinctive features, to the point people can recognize the features alone (reimu's sleeves, flan wings, cirno's wings, everyone's hat). He's also good with western and eastern designs (minoriko/wakasagihime) and when creating both pretty and pleasant designs (yuka, yuyuko, patchouli) or strange but striking ones (flan, okuu, hekatia).

Finally his designs are really fun to draw. Like the general shapes and patterns, the recurring elements (flowy dresses, ribbons everywhere, flowers, hats and umbrellas), even the dumb poses are all usuallly fun to draw. I imagine they'd be fun to cosplay too by the same logic.

That being said I think he can fuck up and some of his designs are pretty awful, either a mess or too bland.

>>17630252
>He doesn't rely on fanservice
What? Armpit exposed "miko" outfits, transparent skirts, and clothing damage aren't fanservice?

>or copypasting popular designs
Majority of touhou are lolita or gothic lolita, one of the most popular things in anime. Also there are more than a few touhou inspired by other characters. Although they aren't necessarily popular characters.

>cirno's wings
Her wings don't actually have a consistent look. Her standard wings were almost entirely defined by the fandom.

>>17630352
He said that ZUN doesn't /rely/ on fanservice, not that he avoids it. Yeah there's fanservice in some of his character designs but those are so few and far between and the fanservice itself so tame that it's hardly worth noting.

As an aside, I don't think the shrine maiden design was purposefully done to appeal to armpit fetishists (Reimu's exposed armpits never get any focus or discussion at all in official media, at least early on), but just as a fun twist on the generic outfit. I'm not ZUN though so I don't know for sure.

>>17630352
I'm going to break your fucking kneecaps for that post.

>Is ZUN a good character designer?
Yes, he's phenomenal. There are companies like Capcom and Namco that produce multiple games a year, with each game having more characters in it than a Touhou game, and with every title having several character designers working their asses off as a team.
If you took the top ten designs Capcom and Namco have ever made and put them against the top ten Touhou designs, Capcom and Namco would be crushed. Morrigan and Iori are great designs, but Momiji, a character ZUN barely bothered to name, stomps them flat.
That's how much of a dominatingly good character designer ZUN is.

It's easy to recognize Touhou characters because ZUN loads them with memorable aspect after memorable aspect. Red blocky hat, puffballs on a string, maple stripe, giant orange leaf, camera around her neck with a red lens, crow on her shoulder, red sneakers with a wooden block on the bottom, pointed ears, red armband.
Yet they stay focused, because he makes every design revolve around two or three colors.
With almost every character he makes, you see them once and never forget them. That is the epitome of character design.

>Who is your favorite touhou in terms of appearance?
There are so many good ones, but my favorite design is Seija. Apart from being a treat for the eyes visually, it handles the idea of a contrarian youkai with such subtlety. So many character designers would have gone ham with asymmetry, but all ZUN needs is a lock of red hair, a tessellating dress, and an upside-down bow. Just fantastic.

>>17630252
>copypasting popular designs
Wasn't a lot of his early designs and character concepts copypasted from games and manga he liked. I vaguely remember seeing somewhere that Yukari's design in particular is a blatant rip-off of a character from a Shoujo manga.

>>17632494
Forgot to put a question mark at the end of the first sentence.

>>17630352
>Majority of touhou are lolita or gothic lolita
Did you only play EoSD or something?

>>17632691
You don't want to talk about what you remember from that attempt to save Kokoro from that freaky castle do ya Tootsie Pop Prince eh?
>behold the power of weaponized Christianity with a mere Excalibur replica !
! ! ! ! !
>Why are you staring at my... ? ? ?
>There's no time for games you...CLOD!
>But if you want to spend a few rounds banging out a deal of some kind (dot dot dot implication ad ex addendum handsome)
>I'll even teach ya the Vulcan Nerve pinch
>Is what I'd really like to tell you

>>17630352
>Armpit exposed "miko" outfits, transparent skirts, and clothing damage aren't fanservice?
Not necessarily. It depends on execution. But it's about the character as a whole.
Does this honestly looks like a design that relies on sex appeal to be noticeable, memorable or appealing to you? Like fanservice characters do?

>Majority of touhou are lolita or gothic lolita, one of the most popular things in anime
Not many of them lately, but that is a clothing style anyway.
>Also there are more than a few touhou inspired by other characters. Although they aren't necessarily popular characters.
Yes I know, most of the pc-98 and other early touhous. How many designs have been since then.
I was talking about clones. When so many artist are doing the same Rei clones, Shana clones, Saber clones, Asuna clones, Yukinoshita clones in the same pseudo fututristic chuuni armors and plastic looking uniforms ZUN is doing fucking matarajin and a chinese lion statue in a hawaiian shirt.

But I'll try to make myself more clear, what I meant when I said "He doesn't rely on fanservice or copypasting popular designs" is that he does not use exposed giant boobs and thongs or the collective memories of previous iconic characters to sell his designs. His designs succeed, I think, for the other things I said.

>>17632494
>Wasn't a lot of his early designs and character concepts copypasted from games and manga he liked.
Yes, I don't know about Yukari, but Ellen for example was copied from a manga.

>>17632494
Yeah, most of his PC98 characters are heavily inspired by Izumi Takemoto's works, like Kana, Yumemi, Ellen and Kotohime. I don't know who Yukari's based off of, though.

>>17632067
>Morrigan and Iori are great designs, but Momiji, a character ZUN barely bothered to name, stomps them flat.
Hey, I'd take a Dante and Vergil over Momiji anyday. I do agree that he's an amazing character designer though.

>>17633808
>How many designs have been since then.
That's a good question. You assume 0, but there's a good chance you'd assume wrong. Most people only know of Ellen because it's hyped and a few more know of other characters, but that doesn't mean Zun only ever did that in olden era and doesn't still get inspired by other characters. It just mean they don't really know what ZUN was inspired by yet.

>Does this honestly looks like a design that relies on sex appeal to be noticeable, memorable or appealing to you?
His drawings are poor. If he drew like a professional, it'd probably look pretty sexy. Don't try to see ZUN as a bastion of purity because you admire his works and because he wouldn't even be able to make something sexy even if he drew porn. Do you think Seiran has translucent bloomers just because he thought it was pretty?

>he does not use exposed giant boobs and thongs or the collective memories of previous iconic characters to sell his designs
Ok. Although I think this is probably due to him preferring loli like characters that wouldn't have anything to show chest wise.

Although it's not like Cirno doesn't look like Rei and Kokoro isn't a "something wrong with her ability to express emotions" girl. (point being even if he's not copying explicitly, it's not like characteristics never show up)One thing that you did note though is that there aren't any characters wearing armor. That is kinda weird.

>Yukinoshita
Literally who?

>>17634276
>Although it's not like Cirno doesn't look like Rei and Kokoro isn't a "something wrong with her ability to express emotions" girl.
not that anon, but to be fair, with that many characters, you're going to find connections to outside characters, even if they're not the same or not based on each other. There's different ways to do the same trope.

>One thing that you did note though is that there aren't any characters wearing armor. That is kinda weird.
To be fair they all fight through Danmaku anyway, so armor doesn't really matter. If you get hit, even if you have armor, you still lose. That you mention it now, though, I would expect at least one person to have armor, but maybe it's just an idea of "Mages don't use armor"

>>17634276
>preferring loli character
Have you honestly have ever played a touhou game? Grown up characters vastly outnumber characters which could be considered children physically. EOSD, the game with the most 'loli' characters, only has 3 out of 9 which could be considered that. I have never seen a overly sexualized character in a touhou game. There is no character which exists solely for sex appeal.
Also ZUN CAN draw better but he doesnt for touhou because that has become the style for touhou.
>Cirno doesnt look like Rei
So any character with blue hair is a copy of Rei?
You can say a character being inspired by someone for every character ever created. Its somewhat true since too since the human mind cannot create something out of nothing. But to say it being exact copies is downright retarded. Kokoro isnt a cliche character even though she shares a characteristic similar to one of the common anime cliche characters.

>>17634935
Oh I completely forgot the midbosses in EoSD too, so that makes it 5 out of 11, but my point still stands.

>>17634276
Cirno a copy of Rei? The fuck? As for Kokoro she.isn't even cliche, since she's super emotional and has no trouble expressing herself, her face is just blank because it's there to wear masks

Also there's nothing inherently sexual about Reimu's outfit unless you're from the Victorian era. Long socks, long skirt, doesn't show navel, only skin shown is armpits and a little leg depending.

>>17634935
>So any character with blue hair is a copy of Rei?
That guy up there used "Rei clone" which people typically used for any quiet girl, which is apparently good enough to be a copy of Rei, so yes to your question too.

>Grown up characters vastly outnumber characters which could be considered children physically. EOSD, the game with the most 'loli' characters, only has 3 out of 9 which could be considered that.
Please stop confusing fan art for canon.

>>17635365
>As for Kokoro she.isn't even cliche, since she's super emotional
Yeah her and Yuki and Eucliwood, etc.

>so there's nothing inherently sexual about Reimu's outfit unless you're from the Victorian era
Here's girl wearing a more conservative outfit than Reimu. Do you consider it in any way fanservicey?

>>17635400
How the fuck is cirno a quiet girl? Do you even know what you are talking about?
And why did you shift to fan art? No ones talking about fan art here.
Kokoro isnt a walking stereotype like those two, she actually a defined character and not some dumb anime trope.
I dont get what you are trying to prove with that picture. Your original argument was Reimu wears revealing clothes for fanservice and now you deny it yourself.
Am I just wasting my time arguing with a shitposter?

>>17635400
>Yeah her and Yuki and Eucliwood, etc.
Did you even play Hopeless Masquerade or Urban Legend in Limbo? I mean I wouldn't blame you if you didn't, but don't talk about characters from it if that's the case.

>>17635409
>And why did you shift to fan art? No ones talking about fan art here.
He's of the opinion that characters are only not loli outside of canon, even though most characters in the series are adults and there is a very low number of genuinely child-bodied characters.

Maybe he's a secondary. I hear a lot of "Touhou is a bullet hell game with lots of lolis!" I guess Reimu and Marisa USED to be children. They aren't anymore.

>>17635409
>How the fuck is cirno a quiet girl? Do you even know what you are talking about?
I think your conversation got lost in hyperbole somewhere along the way. Some of you are clearly talking about visual similarities (both Cirno and Rei have blue hair, wear blue dresses with a bit of white and maybe some red, etc) and some of you are talking about personality comparison.

>>17633808
>chinese lion statue
But Aunn is a dog.

>>17635778
She's both. Aunn is described as being both shishi and komainu.

>>17635728
Not a single person in EosD, a game where body types have been talked about probably in the most detail, is referred to as an "adult." The vampires are explicitly child like, fairies are child like, Sakuya is said to look between 10~20 i.e., not an adult. Patchouli isn't described as anything but being over 100, so she could be a really old lady, but magicians try to stop their aging and she was described as being on the smaller end on a scale of younger teen to older teens. Koakuma doesn't have a single thing about her other than being compared to Daiyousei in personality.(which implies she's at least mentally young like a fairy) Meiling is completely up for interpretation, but that just means she's not (necessarily) canonically an "adult"

Where does the assertion that any of them are "adults" come from?

>>17637966
>Sakuya is said to look between 10~20
That's a massive gap, dude, if she looks 18-20 then she is an adult, if she looks 10, she's a child.

>>17637966
Sakuya, Meiling, Patchouli and Koakuma are definitely not 'lolis' or have childlike bodies. Given that the time in gensokyo moves about as in the real in world, the humans are definitely adults today, as they might have been all 15-19 when the game came out.

>>17637966
Here is a (fanmade) list of age of characters, based on canon material, which I largely agree with, and almost everyone else too.
http://eientei.boards.net/thread/219/touhou-project-age-list

>>17637966
Is Eirin a loli?

>>17637980
>if she looks 18-20 then she is an adult
Teens are not adults.

>>17639009
>Sakuya, Meiling, Patchouli and Koakuma are definitely not 'lolis' or have childlike bodies
Nice evidence and citations. I'm sure that character without even an official art is totally adult because your pornobook said so. She's also a succubus too, right?

>Given that the time in gensokyo moves about as in the real in world
That's a hot citation too. People have assumed that since PoFV referred to WW2, but has ZUN ever really said that? Given MoF was supposed to be a fresh start or something, ages might even have reset there.

>the humans
The only human in EoSD who isn't a protag is Sakuya and she is speculated to not even age. However on checking again, there's a claim (by Akyuu) that Sakuya claims to be in her teens, so I accept 15+ as not being a loli, however it's still not an adult.

Going further, how many (normally aging) humans are there in windows era? Marisa, Reimu, Akyuu, Kosuzu, Sanae(maybe, but she wasn't a loli to begin with unless she was counted as some oppai loli), and... Sumireko and the future chicks? That's like 6 who are even alive at the time of the games. I don't know how old the future chicks are, they are said to be in college but if they're from the same future world as PC98, that would make them <11. (incidentally the people in question from PC98 future world are said to have loli looking bodies but be 15 and 18 ) However, that's probably not canon to windows and so they're probably at least teens if not young adults. Although what they "look like" is dubious. (somehow I got onto the topic of age, like it's age that's important and not what they look like)

With that, going back to >>17637980, Sakuya's age claims don't really answer anything as younger girls could claim to be older and she's most likely vice versa. She probably looks like a teen though seeing as Akyuu didn't say she looks younger than she claimed to be.

Marisa is portrayed as tiny little girl looking womanlet regardless of her age, and Patchouli is said to be about the size of her, which implies she looks similar ignoring that she's also youkai magician that doesn't age like humans. Kosuzu could pass for a loli. Reimu, Sanae, Akyuu, and Sumireko are all probably young adult looking, with Sumireko being the youngest of them.

Also since the topic is EoSD, Marisa and Reimu looked much younger than they are now, if we assume that "gensokyo goes by real world time", that would be what, 15 years younger? Unless you're adamant about PC98 being canon and/or Reimu and Marisa being hags, they were probably similarly young looking girls back then, assuming they even appear to be older now.

>>17639084
She's not a paizuri titmonster and that's all that matters for the likes of you.

>>17635778
Komainu and Shisa are described as being a lion and dog hybrid.

>>17634015
I only know that Yukari is based on the urban legend of the gap woman, a ghostly woman who hides between gaps of two objects and drags people to hell or somewhere related.

>>17634276
>preferring loli character
I hate it when people think, like 99%, of the cast consists of underaged girls and then spread this false info... Has nobody seen the likes of Yukari, Eirin, and even Nemuno?

>>17639773
Its proven guys everyone in touhou is a loli.

>>17635400
>Please stop confusing fan art for canon.
Sorry, but even in official canon art, characters like Eirin and Byakuren clearly look like adults.

>>17639773

>>17639773
Not the anon you're talking with but you can see time in Gensokyo from the newspapers no? Like Season 132 in AFiEU means 2017 because 1885 + 132, Akyuu was born in Season 109 so she should be 22-23 now.

Also if you want to talk whether PC98 is canon or not, ZUN has been asked about that in AWA 2013 and he said that it's the same world with a few contradictions so make of that as you will

>>17639902
>Yukari
Yukari is most definitely a loli, or at least petite, as seen in the manga.

>>17639998
She looks more like a nee-san in the fighting games though and not a hag.

>>17640012
Alphes couldn't even get characters' eye colour right. What makes you think his art is canon in any degree?

>>17640013
Even in the manga, she looks like at least a teen.

>>17639998
>loli
>Tall tier in that old email about heights by ZUN
Sure.

>>17640030
Can you link that email?

>>17640202
https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/ZUN/ZUN%27s_E-mails

>>17640030
>>17640343
Tall tier is about the height of someone who could be as young as 15 according to that. Tall does not even mean tall for a teenager.

>>17639902
It's not even about age. Go through every touhou and see if even 1/3rd are "adult" height or body type even in quasi-canon art.

>>17640454
Also people like to ignore this line "generally speaking, they're about as tall as girls in their early teens"
>Generally speaking

Keeping in mind tall is the max 15+ height. Everyone shorter than tall is shorter than a 15+ teenager

>>17623339
He really is. Just look at that oni character in Fate Grand order based off the same mythological oni as Suika. Suika's design is instantly more memorable than that hilariously trashy effectively-naked loli design.

Touhou is proof that people will draw porn of characters that are well designed even if they aren't very fanservicey.

>>17640503
People will draw porn of anything.

>>17639041
>reimu
>18-19
>Marisa
>17-18
>clownpiece
>15-16
>nitori
>15-16
>satori
>16
>koishi
>15
>kyouko
>14
>futo
>16
What an absolutely horrendous list

>>17640470
Because hes talking about cirno and rumia in that line, so that makes even the smallest characters in the 10-14 age group hieghtwise.
Also I dont understand why the fuck are you so adamant on trying to prove everyone as loli? Majority is not, I dont understand why are you doing this?

>>17639041
problem is Touhou moves 1:1 with real time dude. Reimu and Marisa have to be in their 20s

>>17640454
15 years old or older is "loli"?

>>17639041
>This list is based on appearances, so it's relative and NOT absolute.

>I'm sure there's a lot of inaccuracies in there!
>Yep. But who cares? :'D

Everyone's a loli guys, even you. Case closed.
>>17640659

>>17640706
oops, not meant to quote

>>17640706
Exactly. That post was just a bunch of pedos reassuring each other that their favorite fap material isn't aging.

>>17635365
>Cirno a copy of Rei

At least that's what this magazine who never heard of Touhou thought it is

>>17639773
>Teens are not adults.
20 year olds aren't teens, and you're considered an adult when you hit 18, anyway.

>>17641319
>you're considered an adult when you hit 18
Well, you shouldn't be. So there.

>>17640561
The biggest offender is Mokou being 21, she's supposed to look like in her pre-teens.

>>17640561
>any youkai
>Below 50
Aren't most of them older than our grandparents?

>>17640585
I'm not adamant about anything, you just like imagining everyone is milfs because you're scared to play a game where the girls generally look like elementary or middle schooners. Bring some proof that the characters you like aren't built like young girls instead of just going "they're old because I say so!".

Even more you insist that "most characters" are like that without even a lick of proof.

>>17640646
I said no, but it depends on body type. Chances are if I posted a 15 year old real Japanese girl, you'd call her a loli. Hell, people consider iM@S Iori a loli sometimes.
The point though was that anyone under tall looks at most 15, not some 6 foot tall super boobinite like people imagine Yuugi to be.

>>17641913
Im not scared to play a game about little girls, I have masturbated to a lot of lolis. But a majority of touhou characters are not little girls no matter how much you wish it to be. There is no specific canon body type mentioned, but going through the sprites and manga illustrations is enough to show they arent little girls, especially today since time moves 1:1 to gensokyo in real life as stated by ZUN. I am sorry but your fetish is only your headcanon.

>>17641972
>especially today since time moves 1:1 to gensokyo in real life as stated by ZUN
Which only applies to 8 out of dozens of characters. Also where did ZUN state this? Stop saying stuff without sources.

>>17641791
White hair and baggy clothes make her look like a bona fide baba.

>>17623339
He's an excellent character designer

>>17642120
I mean, she technically is a baba but she's stuck in the body of a 12 year old kid unless she had a growth spurt.

>>17642039
The 60-year cycle that causes the plot of PoFV identifies Gensokyo as being 120 years old.
ULiL, released 10 years later, has Kasen referring to the barrier as being 130 years old.

To be fair to you, this isn't something ZUN stated as it is something that you pick up on as you play the games. But yeah, play the games, this is common knowledge.

>>17642392
Additionally, PoFV was released in 2005, so it lines up with the tragedy in the outside world 60 years' prior being the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, implying that not only does Touhou's timeline advance with ours, but also that it entirely equivalent.

>>17642039
I'm just gonna wager my guess at non-loli characters since EoSD, just my guess and this is taking into account how time passes and matures human characters

Reimu
Marisa
Akyuu
Kosuzu
Kasen
The moonbitch sisters
Their shitty knockoff rabbit
Yuuka
Meiling
Koakuma
Patchouli
Sakuya
Letty
Alice
All 3 Prismrivers
Youmu (she IS, however, clearly young-looking but I'd say she's teenaged)
Yuyuko
Ran
Yukari
Wriggle (debatable)
Mystia
Keine
Reisen
Eirin
Kaguya
Mokou (another character who should look young, though not like a child)
Aya
Komachi
Shiki Eiki
Both Aki sisters
Hina
Nitori
Momiji
Sanae
Kanako
Nazrin (debatable)
Kogasa
Ichirin
Murasa
Shou
Byakuren
Nue
Iku
Tenshi
Hatate
Yamame
Parsee
Yuugi
Orin
Okuu
Kyouko (debatable)
Yoshika
Seiga
Tojiko
Futo (notably young-looking)
Miko
Mamizou
Kokoro
Wakasagihime
Sekibanki
Kagerou
Both Tsukumo sisters (not actually sisters)
Seija
Shinmyoumaru is very debatable, since her smallness is a race attribute and she's not always depicted "as a child"
Raiko
Sumireko
Seiran
Ringo
Doremy
Sagume
Junko
Hecatia
Nemuno
Aunn (debatable)
Narumi (debatable)
Satono and Mai
Okina

splitting post for lolis

>>17644394
Now then, definite lolis:
Rumia
Daiyousei
Cirno
Remi
Flan
Chen
Lily White
Suika
Tewi
Medicine
Suwako
Kisume
Satori
Koishi
Eternity
Sunny Milk
Luna Child
Star Sapphire

>>17644396
I forgot Clownpiece

>>17644396
>most of my favorite touhous are in this list
What does this mean

>>17644403
このロリコンどもめ

Also this neglects accounting for the one seen male character in the series: Kourin. I assume Youki isn't a shota, also. Lastly, Marisa's grumpy dad.

>>17644394
Marisa, Akyuu, Nitori and Shinmyoumaru are 100% canon lolis, though. Also, you can only be a member of team 9 if you're a loli, so Mystia and Wriggle shouldn't be there either

>>17644840
Team 9 doesn't exist and Marisa is simply a midget. Akyuu is in her 20s now, it's been a long time (and by the way, she'll die soon). Nitori...I dunno. River dwarf.

>>17644840
Oh as for Shimmy, like I said I just don't know. The natural smallness has me confused.

>>17644396
>Satori

??
????????

¿¿¿¿que????

>>17644896
>>17644902
Marisa and Nitori are very small and childish looking, therefor they are lolis. As for Mystia, Wriggle and Shinmyoumaru, they have pretty childish and simple personalities, so I believe it would be safe to assume that their bodies would reflect that, as none of them are really drawn with adultish traits that would contradict their maturity level.

>>17632067
don't forget shoe on head

>>17645057
I can budge on Nitori but not Marisa. Plain and simple fact is she's a...funny as Hell to say it, grown woman. I actually know women as short as Marisa ought to be and believe me it's bizarre (I live in Japan and they're rare even here) but they're certainly not lolis just...really goddamn tiny. Baffling, as I myself am a manlet.

>>17645057
Do you also consider Popura from Working!! a loli?

>>17645116
poplar is a shortstack. if she was 10 instead of 17, she'd be an oppai loli.

>>17644394
Nitori is flat!
FLAT!

>>17645128
While you are absolutely correct, Nitoppai is too precious to give up.

>>17645120
Then how the fuck is marisa a loli when she's way older than that?

>>17635400
Look at those tits on a girl that's supposed to be 15 and tell me that isn't fanservice

>>17645203
No boobs

Kanako's design is GOD-tier.

>>17644396
Why is Tewi considered a loli?

>>17645233
That's the point. Reimu isn't not-fanservice just because she's not in a thong bikini.

>>17645203
>>17645085
Adults can be lolis.

>>17623339
>Is ZUN a good character designer?
Art is ZUN's weakest stat and design being an extension of that, being generous, he's "average". You could take almost any character design he does, put it into some other game or anime, and I don't think it'd turn any heads. But because it's touhou, and touhou is popular, anything he does people will like. It's not the designs themselves, it's the series they're in. Anyone on here could draw some OC touhou (and many frequently do) only for it to get trashed on but I guarantee if ZUN himself drew it people would be all over it.

What I will say though is that he's very consistent. A 2hu that's drastically more plain or embellished than the others is hard to come by, and that's a plus. It's not that he's a good character designer, it's just that the overall look and feel of the series is well maintained, and incongruous elements that clash with everything else are rare.

>>17639041
>Hecatia: late twenties
>Junko: late twenties

>>17639041
A black dude just scared me!

>>17648991
>Adults can be lolis.
Not any I've seen.

>>17648949
Child sized and statured. Like actually, not like how Marisa is short and flat.

>>17649049
Without arguing with the rest of your post, I just want to say that drawing and character design are not the same thing. They're linked, as your ability to draw affects how you convey the character design you created but they're still separate skills.

>>17649049
>but I guarantee if ZUN himself drew it people would be all over it.

If ZUN drew it, people would shit on it as hard as possible for at least a full year.

>>17649124
>Child sized and statured. Like actually, not like how Marisa is short and flat.
That portrait looks like every other portrait. Why single her out to be loli but have Yukari or Yuugi not be loli?

>>17649124
>Not any I've seen.
You haven't seen many otaku derived works then. Hell, Konata is a good example. Specifically 18 in her own series but looks like an elementary schooler.

Considering that list though, you're using some strange definition of adult and child.

>>17649049
>You could take almost any character design he does, put it into some other game or anime, and I don't think it'd turn any heads.
If that were the case, this series wouldn't be even a fraction as popular as it is now. Do you think people create thousands upon thousands of artwork of the characters for nothing?

>>17649367
>You haven't seen many otaku derived works then.
I'm talking about in reality and for the last time, Marisa is not a little girl physically. End point. She's not childish, she's just flat and short, and I've seen flat and short people of her size in reality and in the games, the official manga, whatever, and lo and behold she doesn't look like a child.

As for Tewi I completely disagree. It doesn't. Unless you think this also looks like a loli. Whatever.

Furthermore outside of the games she's always explicitly depicted as child-statured. WaHH, Inaba, Sangetsusei, you name it. She is not the same as those who look mature. On the note of Sangetsusei you can also compare the obviously child-like fairies to Marisa. Whoa, what's this? Marisa isn't proportioned like a fairy (all of whom are about the size and shape of a human child)
>Considering that list though, you're using some strange definition of adult and child.
Really? If that's truly what you think I don't really know what to say. I even pointed out those I'd consider not children in appearance, but instead youthful/teenaged. This is based off of depictions in official works, ZUN's word on some matters (such as Remilia and Flan), and generally how I eyeball it.

>>17649879
>I'm talking about in reality
to be clear in regards to this, in fiction when you have the case of someone like Konata firstly this is, to my knowledge, impossible -- even the shortest, flattest grown women still aren't so short and curveless that they could truly, undoubtedly, be mistaken for children. In the realm of video games, manga, and anime you can ignore this cause nothing's real, and this even happens in Touhou with several non-human long-lived or immortal characters. They look like children, but are in fact very old. However Marisa is not a non-human. She's perfectly normal, and over time she has physically matured in her depictions just like Reimu to grow taller and a bit more maturely proportioned. The child we see in EoSD is not the (admittedly small) adult we see in HSiFS and works like FS.

And just to make it as clear as possible beyond whatever examples I've already given, here's not-Marisa, but a transformed fox masquerading as an identical Marisa alongside actual human children.

>>17623339
His girls look silly, but not generic. Guess that's a sign of good design.

Yuyu and Eiki are some of my faves.

>>17644394
>Mokou
She canonically has the body of a 12 year old. How is that not loli?

I think you're overrating the amount of non-loli characters a bit. Official art for almost every character is on the loli-ish side.

>>17650037
Not that anon but I've met 12-year old girls who don't look like lolis at all. Mokou's probably like that.

>>17649139
A person who cannot draw isn't a designer, they're just an ideas guy. Good drawing skills (including composition) are needed for good design skills, else things like color scheme, silhouette, contrast and so on won't be understood. Art and design are not merely "linked", one is a prerequisite to the other and both feedback into one another.

If character design is the art of creating visually appealing characters then the better the artist the better they will understand what's visually appealing, thus better character designs, and the inverse being also true.

>>17649593
>If that were the case, this series wouldn't be even a fraction as popular as it is now
I think my last point was meant to explain why that is. Reading comprehension. Touhou is more than the sum of its parts, but in isolation any of its character designs aren't very special.

>Do you think people create thousands upon thousands of artwork of the characters for nothing?
Are pixiv artists somehow special snowflakes that never do anything off popularity alone unlike the rest of society? Can you make that argument about every other top series like Kancolle, Kimono Friends, Idolm@ster, Love Live, GBF, and so on?

>>17650141
Zun doesnt draw 'better' not because he cant, but because he wont. Its not far fetched to think someone has acquired some level of drawing skills in over 20 years of drawing characters. He stated in one of his interviews that it has become the style of touhou, and it would not be the same if it had the same generic style most of the rest of japanese art has. You might not like the character design, but some people certainly do, as they see the sillyness which matches with the theme. Its a matter of taste though so not everyone likes it. I think the character designs are really well done and very distinct and memorable, a thing which cannot be said about many other character designs in games and others.

>>17650141
No, you're still conflating two separate things.

If you were one of those people that thinks Hecatia's design looks fucking ridiculous and unfitting for the series, would you think she looks less fucking fucking ridiculous and unfitting if she looked like pic related instead of ZUN's style? The planets are still there, she's still barefoot, etc. The design is unchanged, the only difference is that someone who knows how to draw took a shot at it. And the people who like Hecatia's design, can perfectly see past ZUN's lacking drawing skill and enjoy the design he created without it HAVING to look like this; ZUN's art is enough for them because the design itself is what's good.

Ergo, art skill and character design skill are two distinct things.

>>17650037
I thought she was 14. Do we even know exactly? In my defense, she doesn't look like a child in any depiction except perhaps CiLR.

>Official art for almost every character is on the loli-ish side.
I don't agree with that assessment at all. In GoM sure, but everything else? Hell naw. Especially not in the Gensokyo Chronicles.

>>17650141
>A person who cannot draw isn't a designer,
????

As a character designer who can't draw for shit and has been praised for character design, I don't agree with that.

Sadly I don't want to prove that so you'll have to take my anonymous word for it. All you need is ideas, direction, and perhaps a sketch to design a character. You can cover everything needed but lack the technical skill to execute. Writers do this a lot. It's almost like writers have good imaginations and are capable describing and inventing designs fairly well, but...they're writers.

>>17649879
>in reality
I gave an example of that too in my image. There was a court case about it.

>>17650717
Huh. That's hard to believe. You have a source on this information? If it's real, no wonder there was a case over it. To my knowledge truly child-sized adults are pretty much dwarf-only, so they have noticeably strange proportions. You wouldn't be able to confuse it. Same kind of deal for very short adults -- they don't exactly look like kids. Teens though, for sure. That happens a fair amount.

She definitely looks 12 though. If you're not lying that's fuckin weird.

Marisa still doesn't look like a kid though!

>>17648991
Reimu's not fanservice because there isn't anything sexualized about her. Yeah, she has exposed armpits, and...? It's just a design element that barely gets any focus at all. I can barely think of any instance where we're supposed to look at Reimu's armpits.

Compare to that boobmiko design you posted, which clearly emphasizes her breasts.

>>17650807
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lupe_Fuentes

>>17650807
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lupe_Fuentes


>truly child-sized adults are pretty much dwarf-only
There are people who have diseases where puberty doesn't fully work like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Milonakis and there are plenty of females who look young as middle schoolers even into their mid 20s. I'm sure if you went around looking up Japanese girls, you could find plenty who passed for and are around (western) child size.

>>17651152
Your argument is basically saying Nemuno is sexualized because she has large breasts in her portrait.

>>17644906
>SoPM

>>17651788
>GoM

>>17651821
>>>SoPM

>>17651821
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>"""(((SoPM)))"""

>>17651862
This looks closer to SoPM though. She almost looks old.

>>17652017
For all intensive tortoises, she is an old cat lady.

>>17651522
No he's not, don't be pedantic.

>>17651468
yet neither example looks childlike in their adult years, it seems

>>17651522
Do you know what "emphasized" means? That boobmiko design has her giant breasts clearly sticking out and her clothing wraps around them, giving them a clear outline.

Nemuno's breasts are simply just there.

>>17653103
Yeah no, Nemuno's breasts are emphasized too. If anything, Maori's makes more sense because she has something under her bust pulling her clothes inwards.

>>17653905
How is her breasts emphasized again? They exist, but they don't draw attention to themselves.

>If anything, Maori's makes more sense because she has something under her bust pulling her clothes inwards.
Which outlines her boobs even more.

>>17653905
Maori's are abnormally large relative to the rest of the body, nearly as large as her head individually. Not to mention they're designed to stick out like that. The comparison with Nemuno isn't even close.

I'm amazed that there are people who will actually argue that ZUN sexualized any of his characters. I feel like they don't even believe this themselves and are just being contrarian.

>>17644400
it's wrong?

>>17656641
What's wrong?

What anime is this girl from