/jp/ - Otaku Culture

Why didn't you protect that smile?

GAS THE YOUKAI
RACE WAR NOW

The old thread is still here. Why make a new one?

>>16928800
Are you threatening me Master Bookseller?

>>16928862
Because the other has succumbed to the same "why doesn't Reimu exterminate Alice????" shit every FS thread falls to

>>16928862
this is a kozusu thread exclusively

Kids, don't do scrolls

>>16928922
Roll it up into a joint.

>>16928800
Well, then you are lost!

Excuse me but why doesn't Reimu exterminate Alice??

>>16928940
Because she's a friend. And alsi she killed her entire group of friends for Unlimited Power

>>16928940
fack off this is a kozusu thread

>>16928947
So why doesn't she kill yet another friend for Unlimited + 1 power? Are you saying that the apex amount of power vs. having less friends has been reached?
>>16928950
I'm sorry I just really wanted to know. Please forgive.

>>16928800
thanks i now have a new variation of the infamous quote from the film ZARDOZ running through my head viz:

The Gun is good
THE SHRINE MAIDEN IS EVIL
etc.

>>16928940

Alice became a youkai long before Reimu was born.

>>16928957
Because the remaining friends she does have can't be killed as easily.

>>16928940
Because Alice is a cute girl and not a fucking Dracula-looking creep.

I want to be Suzy

>>16928800
How much you wanna bet the "strongest duo" is Kosuzu and the scroll?

>>16928994
I think it's Cirno and Letty.

>>16928930
Smoke youkai erryday
someone should draw youkai Kozu in an outfit decorated with scrolls

>>16928800
>>16928963
Gimme a good quote for this one.

>>16928871

It's not our fault Zun is a bad writer who doesn't remember things in his own work.

>>16928800
This wouldn't happen if she was spanked.
Spare the rod
Spoil the child

>>16929011
Source

Yukari did nothing wrong

>>16928800
what are you referencing?

>>16928800
I have failed you Kozusu, I have failed you.

Yukari did the right thing.

It was obvious from chapter 1 that Kosuzu would turn into a youkai sooner or later. If Yukari didn't intervene she would do it anyways and then Reimu would murder her in the middle of the night.

>>16928800
She was a Good Friend
But Reimu has High Ground. It's over.

>>16928871
>"why doesn't Reimu exterminate Alice????"

Wait, people really discuss this shit?

Alice is like 150 years old. Reimu was never there. And she is not even from the Village.

>>16928922
>kids, don't try to become powerful immortal magical monsters

Sure thing dad.

Seriously, who the shit wouldn't want to be a youkai?

>>16929111
Kozu also got too friendly with youkai so yukari KGB be coming for her by setting her up

Kozusu will die like Light did.
She'll run away at the final confrontation with Reimu and die by some means in a forest clearing with sunlight shining down on her corpse.

Evil Suzu is so good.

Will Humans from the Village Finally remove their shackles?

HALLOWEEN MAKEUP ARTISTS HATE HER!

Local girl becomes spooky as hell using this one weird trick.

>>16929156

Literally young Byakuren.

>>16929168
Please don't misuse the word "literally".

>>16929143
Last panels will be Reimu saying that she lost track of Kozu and the main cast walks home thinking that she escaped

>>16929168
Now that you mention it, there are a decent amount of parallels between Kosuzu and Byakuren here.

>>16929174
Mima possesses her corpse in the last panel

>>16929189
this feeling...

>>16929117
Try telling that fag. He wont listen.
As long as you enter Gensokyo as a youkai, then its okay.

>>16928800
Am I the only one who prefers Kosuzu on the right? Unfortunately, it's going to be just the youkai inside the scroll and not Youkaisuzu.

>>16929216
I do too

>>16929216
No, I want my cute bubbly bibliophile daughter, not a broken shell of a human being

>>16929216
> Unfortunately, it's going to be just the youkai inside the scroll and not Youkaisuzu.
But it is Youkaisuzu

>>16929216

I want porn of her and I want it now.

>>16929230
she better be drawn with bigger boobs for the sake of paizuri

What if Youkaisuzu kicks Reimu's ass?

>>16929233
She can't even kill Marisa

>>16929233

>>16929233
Yukari shows up and tells her that if she doesn't mellow down she'll have a very bad time.

>>16928800

>tfw you were half-expecting Cirno to become a yook but it was kozusu instead

>>16929111

If nothing else, this makes it even more likely that Yukari is an ex-human who became what she is using a similar ritual.

>>16929240
Who are you quoting, hombre?

>>16929240
>If nothing else, this makes it even more likely that Yukari is an ex-human who became what she is using a similar ritual.
If she is Maribel then she probably turned into a youkai naturally or simply by mastering her ability. But that might be what Kozu did here, she can read the persons soul or some shit, truesight maybe?

>>16929248
Kozu Ability is to read any book, No matter the Language. I think in Chapter 16 she got an upgrade.

>>16929240
who are you quoting

i want to procreate with the youkai suzy

>>16929253
Maribel went from jumping through dimensions to fucking over physics, going from reading books to reading people like books would be the next step.

>>16928800
"Reimu, witness the power of the Forbidden Scrollery (tm)"

What did ZUN means by this?

>>16929267
Or well, going from unveiling the context of a book to unveiling any truth would also be another step.

>>16929267
If Maribel is Yukari than she must have killed people she knew to make that jump.

>>16929270
Did you ever hear the tragedy of Usami Renko the Dim? I thought not. It’s not a story the Humans would tell you. It’s a Youkai legend. Renko was a Hifuu, so stupid and with a plot armor so thick she could use her special eyed to influence the stars to... tell her the time. She had such a lack of knowledge that she couldn't even keep the ones she cared about from becoming Youkai and running off into the past.

>>16929267
Well Maribel's learning to expand from just seeing borders to actually learning how to touch them.

Still with Sumireko at least isn't reading people's movements to be yet another boring martial artist.

Can't wait for Reimu to "kill" Kosuzu just so the Youkai in the scroll is the only one exterminated, leaving Kosuzu without a scratch and then Yukari comes out congratulating Reimu for doing her a favor

>>16929236

She defeated her with no effort. She just never tried to kill her.

>>16929267
So, Kosuzu becomes a satori?

>>16929269
>>16929267
I'd love this idea, soulseeing truthseer Youkaisuzu

>>16929293
Well no, it'd be more like deciphering any truth about anything just like how she deciphers books.

>>16929267

Maribel started from just seeing weird shit in dreams.

>>16929280

If manga keeps going after that it would be retarded.

It's much better to have Suzu as a new youkai.

>>16929275
But Renko later becomes a professor and throws crosses at Reimu, Marisa and Wizard Yuuka.

>>16929300
It's going to be Fortune Teller all over again
She's just being possesed by the youkai in the scroll

>>16929297
what the heck this means that i can become yukari

>>16929293
It's more like Doug Ramsey/Cipher from X-Men but with cute hair.

Really kinda lame power DESU

>>16929312
Can I marry you?

>>16929318
Only if you're a cute girl that has a t-shirt like Hecka but also wears fingerless gloves (very important)

>>16929315
I think deciphering anything
>>16929269
would be cooler, also a bit more like touhou with regarding vague shit like border manipulation.

She'd be the anti-Nue

Potential Dialogue? Don't know why I like to think of this potential confrontation as Star Wars


Reimu: You have allowed this scroll to twist your mind, until now... until now you've become the very thing you swore to destroy.

Kosuzu/Youkai Kosuzu: Don't lecture me, Reimu! I see through the lies of Gensokyo. I do not fear progress as you do. I will bring peace, freedom, technology, and security to my new Village.

Reimu: "Your" new village?

Kosuzu/Youkai Kosuzu: Don't make me kill you.

Reimu: Kozusu, my allegiance is to Gensokyo, to balance!!

Kosuzu/Youkai Kosuzu: If you're not with me, then you're my enemy.

Reimu: Only a Youkai deals in absolutes. I will do what I must.

Kosuzu/Youkai Kosuzu: You will try.

>>16929328
But I thought you were Yukari!?

>>16928800
actually it is not the first time she's had 'nine-tenths of the law' happen to her, remember the 'love letters chapter'?

>>16929346
Okay so I'm not the only one who saw this leading to an abundance of Sheevposting?

>>16929346
It's really hard to get the High Ground if you can't fly.

>>16929485
You underestimate her power.

>>16929485
She got the High Scroll then?

>>16929280
It's going to be something like this. She won't be hurt.

>>16929242
>>16929256
LOL i love this meme XD

>>16929552
It's not a meme. It's a way of life.

>>16929564
Your way of life is a meme.

>>16929534
Wrong.

>>16929513
Don't try it.

Reminder that this is all the Tanukihag fault, if she gets a free pass I'm poisoning ZUN drinks.

I never really liked Kosuzu, so I'm fine with seeing her burn over this.

>>16929207
You mean as long as you aren't a villager and turn, it's fine.

>>16928800
I have two personalities...

only one thing can save Kosuzu!

and thats posting the 'suze is kosnoozing one!!

>>16929922
But she's right though, only humans with powers like Reimu and Marisa can enjoy Gensokyou, others have to suck it and stay locked inside the village for the rest of their lives.

Which reminds me, did ZUN forget about Mister A who wanted to kick youkai out of gensokyou?
He should've made him relevant instead of Yukari since it doesn't make sense for her to make a new enemy for youkai.

Yukari's goal is to unravel tanuki and tengu infiltrations inside the village.
She talked Kosuzu into becoming a youkai. So now Reimu will murder Kosuzu and send two messages to the villagers:
1. The youma books are dangerous and you should turn them in to your friendly neighborhood shrine maiden for purification and destruction;
2. Kosuzu, who became a youkai, was posing a threat to all of Gensokyo, including human village.
The latter message would reinforce the point that all youkai pose a threat to humans. As a result, the humans will become more paranoid and it will be harder for Mamizou and Aya run their operations in the village, returning everything to status quo, which existed before the events of FS.

>>16929959
Marisa doesn't have innate powers. She's just doing what the villagers are afraid to do.

>>16929972
How about you get lost kid?
No one dies in 2hu.

>>16930001
Hi

>>16930009
He's not a cute girl, therefore he doesn't count.

>>16929280
More like Reimu befriends the youkai in the scroll.

>>16929959
>Implying 甲-san isn't Akyuu

>>16930015
He's better then 50% of the cast apparently

>>16928800
Akyuu is going to die and it's going to be her fault. Kozusu will discover this as she awakens and complete her transformation with a dramatic shriek.

>>16929959
She's not "right".

Thing is, most human villagers are totally fine with their situation. They're basically all country bumpkins.

>>16929124
>who wouldn't want to consume human fear and flesh for sustenance?
I am paraphrasing you.

>>16929881
Except Aya is the one that poisoned Kosuzu's mind

MAMIZOU DID NOTHING WRONG

>>16929972
Removing access to Bunbunmaru seems like it'd be weird though since it's like Aya's entire gimmick.

>>16930159
Human flesh tastes like sheep once prepared, so, maybe.

>>16929346
almost perfect but
>>Reimu: Only a Youkai deals in absolutes. I will do what I must.
Reimu loves to deal in absolutes. That said she doesn't actually always follow what she says she follows.

>>16930196
How do you know that? Are you a youkai spy?

>>16930215
I read it on the internet
t. sumireko

>>16930196
You mean pig. They call it long pork.

Pigs are used in medical research because it's the closest you can get to human tissue before people start raising ethical concerns.

>>16928800
WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO MY LOLI?

>>16928800
It would be funny if that was Ran acting under Yukari's order.

>>16929280
What if Kosuzu gets away and becomes the main antagonist for TH16?

>>16930293
She's more likely to go the Kasen route and show up in AoCF.

No game with playable Rinnosuke ever...

>>16930278
I showed her the truth, the truth called DESPAIR!

>>16930315
Rinnosuke will never be in a game because he hates doing anything that involves leaving his store

>>16930347
We've had reclusive characters as playable before. The real reason Rinnosuke will never be made playable is probably because ZUN worries people would mistake him for a protagonist as the only dude in whatever game he'd show up in.

>>16930352
He could have a spinoff where he goes out for a walk.

>>16930370
Holy fuck fangame creators get on it NOW

I wonder if Scroll and yokai inside are powerful enough to make some permanent change in Gensokyo.
A) FS goes about balance between humans and yokai while making nods to yokai eventual demise (at least in my opinion, those last chapters hinted towards time when humans in village will stop fearing yokai just as Outside World did).
B) LoLK, ULiL and AoCF all have characters passing Barrier in one way or another.
C) Not particularly sure about WaHH, but there must be something too to support my theory.

I think Yukari is working to make some fundamental changes to Gensokyo which will ensure yokai survival. It may be something "simple" like changing Spell Card Rules (which are simply laws, no need to have universe-bending powers to change them, only will of both parties to get to negotiation table), or it may be something crazy. There are alot of powerful figures in Gensokyo right now, and Scroll may be last piece of this "Renovation Plan".

For example - what if spiriting away incident was a first step in making humans outside visit Gensokyo in masses? While dreaming, humans are much more vulnerable to fear, so any (or almost any) yokai can have a great share of fear just by strolling at night and finding some dreaming human. Humans of Gensokyo are safe, humans from Outside World are safe, and yokai get their grub.

>>16930159
If I got magical powers, a perfect little loli body, near-invulnerability and was not driven mad by prions I would *absolutely* start eating people

I mean, I'm getting hard just thinking about all the men I would let fuck my slippery youkai pussy and creampie my womb

>>16930347
Then have the next game take place in his store, duh

Kind of a weird turn for Kosuzu, if that is actually Kosuzu.

-Yukari asks Kosuzu what she thinks of Youkai, to which she replies "I think as long as youkai aren't hurting us, they aren't our enemies"
-Yukari then says she's a youkai who's here to save Kosuzu from Reimu because Reimu might exterminate her if she is a youkai admirer who becomes a youkai
-????
-Now Kosuzu(?) is all hulked up on youma magic intending to "free" the humans from the youkai who dominate "suffering" humanity

Something just doesn't really jive right here. It's like Kosuzu was going in one direction to find her truth but ended up at some other branch path and taking a more violent and direct approach to things. Yukari must have completely mindfucked her to come to that conclusion, but Yukari seemed encouraged that she considered the youkai not an intrinsic threat to the humans (which Youma-Kosuzu seems to believe they are).

>>16930399
WaHH has touched on spiriting away in more detail, it's a side effect of Sumireko visiting iirc. And Kasen is continually allowing Sumireko to pass through the barrier so she can meet with her, which causes things like invasive plants making it into Gensokyo.

>>16930399
She should find a way to make youkai dependent on something other then humans, artificial belief or some shit

>>16930435
Seems to me that in this chapter Kosuzu is just lashing out at people she thought were her friends but have been lying to her all along
I mean, from Kosuzu's point of view, what do Reimu and Marisa stand for? Kosuzu shows herself to Marisa and takes action to make herself seem like a threat to see how the powers of Gensokyo react.

>>16930434
It'll be one of those hidden object games where your trying to find random junk in the shop

>>16929972
Kosuzu won't die ZUN won't do it.
Fortune teller was some random guy who lived and died in the span of one chapter. ZUN won't kill off a major character like Kosuzu.

>>16930506
It's almost everyone's fault, but it still feels like a weird spot for her to land. I can't really imagine what Yukari could have specifically said to her to make her take on these powers instead of trying to talk to them. Almost everyone Kosuzu interacted with has made her distrust them in some way though, not just Reimu and Marisa.

Akyuu and Marisa were intentionally vague about the situation in Gensokyo and Kosuzu felt insulted when Akyuu called her a kid (Kosuzu, in one of her most airheaded moments, conveniently forgets Akyuu is the Child of Miare)

Mamizou was her best costumer but is a youkai who manipulates Akyuu and then straight up threatens Kosuzu for the scroll. Then she says they're friends and they can talk whenever, even though she'll totally kill her if she doesn't get the scroll *wink*

Aya convinced Kosuzu that youkai weren't all a threat and could be considered individually, but also subtly threatens her and reminds her that their relationship is business.

Kosuzu didn't even really try to talk to Reimu about it which is still weird to me, that there wasn't some kind of conversation between them before the turn. I guess that's going to be the climax of the story though.

It seems like Kosuzu might just be angry and thinks everyone just wanted to get close to her for her scroll, which might be something Yukari planted in her head (and isn't necessarily wrong since Mamizou and Aya were definitely using her). She's just an impulsive and easily influenced teenager. But the jump from "youkai aren't inherently harmful to us" to "all humans must be freed" is a bit jarring, and partially so because it's bookended by Reimu slapstick jokes in an otherwise very serious chapter.

FS in general has seemed like a manga that relies a lot on red herrings and since we don't know what Yukari is actually trying to do other than perhaps change Gensokyo to a great degree (like Mamizou mentions in the apocalypse chapters) it's an interesting mystery, I guess.

Important question: can Scrollsuzu defeat the cock?

>>16930629
Yukari is the only 2hu that can beat the dick. This is only because her vagvag is actually a portal to another dimension, therefore making it impossible to fug her.

>>16930293
TH16 is supposed to have a light story, I doubt ZUN would cover something so heavy in that game.

Of all the youkai I have created, I still regard Kosuzu Motoori as something of a minor masterpiece. No, she was not an entirely alchemical creation, but she was my youkai nevertheless. Even though she failed to live up to her full potential, there was much pleasure in transforming Kosuzu Motoori from a bright-eyed, tousle-headed youth into the greatest single threat of all time. Yes, she ultimately died against Reimu, as human turn youkai do, but that was my fault, not her. Given the opportunity to create another like kosuzu again, I would, and with zeal.

>>16930434
>>16930347
Rinnosuke studying danmaku at his place, 6 stages of dueling people for practice, each stage his shot type gets slightly different and stronger as he gets better

A MAN CAN DREAM

>>16930683
You monster.

A moment of silence for Kirisame Marisa please.

>>16930796

>>16930825

>>16930196

Human flesh is like 95% similar to pork.

>>16930828

>>16930825
>>16930828
The comfiest

>>16928800

She's absolutely right.

Humans are treated like cattle and Reimu lies and deceives them all the time.

>>16930825
Tanukihag confirmed for replacing Marisa in future 2hu games.

>>16929228
Is that a ghost horse cock?

>>16930960
it's his foot

>>16930324
Edgy touhou is canon.
No more sunshine and rainbows 24/7 and more of fearing for your life of getting devoured everyday

>>16930015
Hey...

>>16930988
Orange deserved better

>>16930293
>>16930315
>She's more likely to go the Kasen route and show up in AoCF.
What if one person in the "strongest duo" mentioned in the teaser for AoCF is possessed Kosuzu? The wiki is talking about "perfect possession" after all.
The other person in the "strongest duo" could be Yukari since she was talking about saving Kosuzu. What if from Yukari's point of view the way to save Kosuzu is to turn her into a youkai so powerful even Reimu can't exterminate her? Or into a youkai with a tricky ability which allows her to run away from Reimu.

>>16928800
Well then, you are lost!

I think you're all missing a very important piece of information here.

Marisa is going deaf. Or blind. Or both.

She legitimately believes the person she is talking to is Reimu when it is actually Kosuzu. Either Evil Kosuzu has an outfit that looks like the Hakurei shrine maiden outfit, or she has the same voice pattern as Reimu.

>>16929925

>>16931062
apex kek

My prediction for the resolution

What we saw was, in fact, a youkai from the scroll exerting power through Kosuzu, and not Kosuzu herself turned youkai. However, her words were still her own, and after the threat is exterminated and Kosuzu returned to her senses she confronts Reimu. As Yukari took her on a trip there as Aya guessed, Kosuzu demands that Gensokyo become more like the outside world, or the villagers be allowed to choose to go live there if they wish.
Either Reimu in a rare moment of wisdom, or some other character involved (Mamizou or Yukari herself, maybe) will point out that even though youkai are far less powerful in the outside world, human lives are still fraught with hardship, danger and sources of fear; they're just of a different sort than what the humans of Gensokyo are used to. Kosuzu is given the choice to go live in the outside world or remain; of course she chooses the latter because she still feels attachment to her family and friends.

>>16930370
>>16930378
>you get extra points for grazing the bitches and whores in your path

>>16931062
Kosuzu didn't deserve this...

>>16930399
>>16930435
They fucking beat you over the head with "this teleporting shit is NOT spiriting away it's a different thing you fucker" and you still mistake the two.

Spiriting away and the phenomenon caused by Sumireko's appearance ("humaning away") are two entirely separate things, you dumb secondaries.

>>16930506

>I mean, from Kosuzu's point of view, what do Reimu and Marisa stand for?

We don't even know what their reasons are. to be honest. Why does Reimu protect the barrier besides being the "appointed" shrine maiden? Why is Marisa also pro-Gensokyo? You'd think that humans would be all for fleeing a place that only exists to feed monsters.

Sanae and Sakuya have legit reasons but I can't see a good one for both of the protags, which totally explains why Kosuzu went full hostile.

For Reimu, this "appointment" is literally why she exists. Both in and out of universe. Though she might not like it, it is her duty, and in the usual way of Japan, duty is an absolute.

For Marisa, man, Gensokyo's where she keeps all her awesome magic shit!

Doujin of youkaisuzu being humiliated and fucked against her will when?

>>16930683
>Given the opportunity to crush testicles again again, I would, and with zeal.

>>16931062

I love her youkai eyes. Reminds me of Koishi.

>>16928800
NOT FROM MY PERSPECTIVE

>>16931636
Welcome to the Nazi Hakurei Shrine.

>>16929117
what does that even matter when the reason jinyous are killed is because they don't want humans to get ideas about becoming one themselves?

in other words, any jinyou, regardless of origin, is as guilty as the fortune teller, but apparently not because of plotholes.

>>16928969
So? The rule isn't ''after the shrine maiden is born'' is it?

>>16929207
yeah but why? that's the unsolved issue.

>>16929240
But Cirno is already a youkai, since she's a fairy. ZUN himself explicitly says Cirno is a youkai in her PCB profile even.

>>16931663
fairies don't work on fear

>>16930210
It's more that ZUN is so drunk all the time that he can't remember anything, remember when it was said that Reimu treats everyone the same? Holy hell that's probably the biggest bullshit ever spoken in Touhou.

>>16931671
She kinda does though.

You know, assuming they haven't done something horribly wrong.

>>16931677
>She kinda does though.
No she doesn't, she never did, especially in FS where she's super protective of Kosuzu and everyone else can go fuck themselves for all she cares. Everyone knows she treats humans better than youkai in general.

>>16931685
She does though. She treats humans and youkai in the same manner.

>>16931686
what bizarro world do you live in where Reimu totally likes youkai as much as humans, much less Kosuzu?

Hell she has no problem killing a youkai and even smiles when doing so.

>>16931698
She does.

I'm not in the mood for arguing with someone stubborn though. You can see it in how she'll rage at everyone from humans to fairies to vampires and nonetheless party with them or even help them out on occasion.

Actually, you might be thinking of that widely accepted misconception about how ZUN "said Reimu is alone in heart". She clearly isn't. She has a best friend and has people she favors. The point with her character is that she's balanced and cares about all residents of Gensokyo about the same, despite her "job" being "youkai extermination".

Go on and get angry though, you seem to want to.

>>16931670
It's more of a belief thing than fear, the latter is just how most youkai make themselves known, hence the existence of non-feared youkai like Keine.

>>16931663
not this shit again

>>16931230
>Why does Reimu protect the barrier besides being the "appointed" shrine maiden?
>Sanae and Sakuya have legit reasons
Reimu's "reason" is the same as Sakuya though. She is the Hakurei Shrine Maiden and as such maintaining the balance falls under her duty to Gensokyo.

>>16931720
Sanae, rather, not Sakuya.

Sanae is a Shrine Maiden, and so is Reimu.

>>16931663
>he can't get people to argue with "b-but alice is literally the same as the fortune teller"
>so now he uses the "fairies are youkai" bait

>>16931708
>She does.
You're just gonna ignore the fact that she's overprotective of Kosuzu, cares about humans' wellbeing and she doesn't care about killing youkai?
>You can see it in how she'll rage at everyone from humans to fairies to vampires and nonetheless party with them or even help them out on occasion.
Is that it? Getting angry at people that piss you off means you treat them all the same all the time?
>Actually, you might be thinking of that widely accepted misconception about how ZUN "said Reimu is alone in heart".
I'm not, hell you just pointed out another one of ZUN's lies.

She gets angry when youkai attend her shrine instead of humans even though she herself thought about the possibility of youkai giving faith to a shrine just like humans do. She usually blames a youkai for bad things that happen. She protects humans as much as she can. She has no issues beating up youkai for no reason other than the very fact that they're youkai, sometimes even killing them.

How in the fuck can you think she treats everyone the same?
>Go on and get angry though, you seem to want to.
What's with this condescending tone? That only makes you look bad you know.

>>16931730
>What's with this condescending tone?
You're just typing like you're frustrated, I hate dealing with that so I won't.

>>16931729
How is it bait? Are you calling ZUN a liar? He's the one that said it, not me.

>>16931727
Actually, Sanae isn't a shrine maiden.

>>16931735
Sorry if I sound baffled when someone says something as crazy as ''Reimu totally treats everyone the same'' even though her entire job IS about treating humans better than youkai, and she does.

>>16931759
But she doesn't.

>>16931761
She does though, that's an undeniable fact. Any game, any manga, is proof.

>>16931766
Reimu hangs out with a grand total of three humans that are relatively normal often enough to make note of it: Marisa, Sumireko, and Kosuzu. She hardly ever meets with Akyuu and she surprisingly doesn't meet with Sanae that often either.

On the other hand she has dozens of inhuman acquaintances that she loves to be around. She also is fully aware of how few humans actually bother with her.

>>16931772
>she loves to be around
I just posted a picture of her complaining that her shrine is full of youkai, jesus christ it's like you're closing your eyes and covering your ears. Akyuu and Kosuzu are her friends, it's not like the manga shows all the times they've met, hell the first time we see Kosuzu Reimu is already overprotective of her. But that doesn't matter, even if she had never gotten a human friend, the point is she treats youkai like shit.

Are you gonna ignore everything said in >>16931730?

>>16931785
It's like you're closing your eyes to how blatantly she treats youkai and humans equally.

>>16931790
Are you just trolling at this point?

>>16931772
>she surprisingly doesn't meet with Sanae that often either.
Makes sense for a priestess of one faith to not mingle with a priestess of a rival religion, especially one that caused not one, but THREE incidents.

>>16931797
Kinda. Like I said I don't even want to bother arguing.

Do you really think I'm going to convince you when you're this sure of yourself?

>>16931798
>rival religion
What.

>>16931801
Not him, but that's pretty much a semantic difference from "rival faith" as far as I'm concerned.

>>16931798
I'm just going to chime in here and say I really, really want to shove my cold hands under Reimu's vest and wiggle around until she's got tears in her eyes from trying and failing to escape.

Thanks for listening.

>>16931754
Sanae is more of a shrine maiden than Reimu will ever be. This isn't a disparaging of Reimu, it's just that Reimu's job isn't to do actual miko stuff, while Sanae's is.

>>16931823
Once again, Sanae isn't a shrine maiden. Please read up on your canon.

Everyone who's ever interacted with Kozusu did it under pretense. They never told her things outright, never explained anything to her, treated her like an ignorant child (which she is but that's besides the point, she tried to fix that but was denied of the chance all the time) and whenever someone actually told her something it was a half-truth, tiptoeing about the issue or plain and simply haha we are buds right Kozusu btw giv scroll or I'll totally not kill you.

And then Yukari came when Kuzusu was hurt, confused and with no idea what to do and most of all feeling alone and abandoned by all those she admired or considered close to her. And what does Yukari do? Be actually straight-forward with her. Someone actually spoke to her as an actual person about the issue.

Yukari jumped on the perfect moment to mold her to her current needs and plans? Perhaps. Can I blame Kozusu for going alongside Yukari? Do I blame Yukari for the situation? I cannot do either.

This is everyone else fault. Kozusu and Yukari did nothing wrong.

>>16931800
Aren't people in general convinced of their own point when arguing?

I'm acting like this because saying that Reimu treats everyone the same is like saying that she doesn't like money. Her disliking youkai is like one of her key characteristics, one of the the traits she's almost always showing.

Saying otherwise because she's made friends with some youkai is like saying that an average /pol/ poster isn't racist because he has a black friend.

>>16931828
She's described in three of her profiles as a shrine maiden. Sounds like a miko to me.

>>16931829
Kosuzu was ''hurt'' because Akyuu spilled the beans about youkai and then Yukari manipulated her like a devilish snake. The only one that really wanted that scroll was Mamizou, who was also tricking her.

She thinks that Reimu and Marisa are in a conspiracy against her and don't care about her well being or anyone else's. In other words, Yukari lied to her.

>>16931823
But they both have the same job and do the same things, try to attract followers on their shrine and beat up youkai.

>>16931846
My way of thinking is simple because Reimu is simple: she believes a lot of things. She believes that she must protect human villagers (not NECESSARILY "humans") and that humans and youkai must fight.

However, you have to speculate the "why" for that. The way I see it, given her actions, it's that she's Gensokyo's protector, not humanity's.

Humanity is oppressed under the very system she protects, and Gensokyo was sealed off for the benefit of youkai. She loves Gensokyo, though, so she doesn't mind. In fact she actively encourages the system. You can see this in things like SoPM, where she argues in favor of weak youkai under the guise of being worried about humans.

She parties with youkai, drinks with fairies, and is friends with pretty much anyone assuming they aren't doing something horribly wrong. She will let humans die under her watch if they're outsiders, though, because that's Gensokyo's system, which she believes is normal, balanced, right, and just to a fault. She'll also kill youkai that don't follow that system, of course.

Fundamentally she thinks that humans and youkai are enemies, however in practice she's only satisfied with peace. In so being, she treats humans and youkai equally; a privilege of a strong person, honestly.

>>16931828
Being a living god is a species. Being a shrine maiden is a job. One doesn't make the other wrong.

>>16931864
In short, she's okay with you no matter what the fuck you are as long as you don't stir shit up, and if you do she'll deal with you because that's her job no matter if you are human or yokai. Is that what you are trying to say?

>>16931869
Her occupation not being shrine maiden makes it wrong.

>>16931876
Essentially. The crystal case of this being her murder of the Fortune Teller, a human villager turned youkai.

>>16931864
>She believes that she must protect human villagers (not NECESSARILY "humans") and that humans and youkai must fight.
Actually she doesn't, as shown by Miko reading her in SoPM revealing that deep down she doesn't want fights to happen anymore.

>She parties with youkai, drinks with fairies, and is friends with pretty much anyone assuming they aren't doing something horribly wrong
Again, it's like saying that a /pol/ poster isn't racist because he at some point has done things that aren't racist like partying with minorities. The point is she treats youkai like garbage compared to humans.

Most noticeably of all, if she treated everyone the same, she would be as overprotective of everyone as she is with Kosuzu.

>and is friends with pretty much anyone assuming they aren't doing something horribly wrong.
Dude, she beats youkai simply because they're youkai, even if they've done nothing wrong. Other characters like Yama have pointed this out, too.

You're pointing out times she isn't being mean to youkai, but that doesn't mean that in general she treats youkai the same as humans, the latter far outdoes the former. Hell it's her job.
>>16931876
See above, she's beaten up youkai for no reason other than because they're youkai.

>>16931892
She's beaten up Marisa for no reason other than "we came across one another".

>>16931640
Nazi Gensokyo.
Now we're talking

>>16931829
Kosuzu is basically the Arthas of Gensokyo

>>16931894
That's fighting game logic that happens for the sake of having fights, they don't act like that outside of them. Otherwise Reimu would fight Marisa as a way to say ''hello'' each time the latter comes to visit the shrine in the manga. Not just Reimu but every single other character would also do the same with each other.

Compare it to IN where they fight for an actual reason: Marisa/Reimu thinks the other one is the culprit, depending on which scenario you pick.

>>16931863
For Reimu, the beating youkai part is her job, the shrine is what she does on her time off.
For Sanae, it's the other way around.
This of course reflects horribly on both of them.

>>16931931
Pretty sure Reimu spends more time idling around in the shrine than actually doing her exercise routine of beating up yooks.

>>16931809
I would like to hear more of your fantasies.

The parallel between Mary and Suzy is really goddamn strong. How much of this is coincidence, how much of this is ZUN setting the stage, and how much of this is Yukari grooming an heir?

>>16932048
Kosuzu has a bunch of death flags like using a dark forbidden power and paranoically thinking her closest friends are in a conspiracy against her, I wouldn't be surprised if she dies.

>>16931892
>>16931864
I think you simply can't define Reimu, she's a wild card that acts however ZUN wants her to, sometimes she'll say that youkai should be sent to the gas chambers and other times she'll do a complete 180 and say things like this.

>>16932253
del

>>16932347
no

>>16932253
Have Sanae and Kanako no shame at all?

>>16932358
DEL

>>16928800
NOOOO

YAMEROOOOO

>>16929216
But she was already acting like that before opening the scroll?

>>16932253
That happens after Reimu had defeated them and resolved the incident aka, those youkai and gods had paid their dues. You can say that the whole gesture is Reimu rubbing her superiority and saying "gg no re" to remind them to not make any fuss for now.

>>16932510
She had already read the rest of the scroll, what she did in front of Marisa was just read the last part.

No bells in the hair

No KOSUZU on her apron

This ain't my 'suzer at all!

>>16932519
punished suzer

>>16932513
How exactly is wanting to befriend someone you just had a fierce battle with rubbing her superiority in the slightest? If anything it's the humblest thing you could do. She could have torn down their shrine and even sent them back from where they came from.

>>16932522
NERD DEPRIVED OF HER BOOKS

kosuzu's gonna die.

>>16932664
ZUN pls go, nobody believes you

>>16932524
Its literally showing her to be a bigger man (girl) that thinks bygones be bygones. She defeated all of them, and now dictates that they should all be friends and not making another scene.Sure, it is very humbling of her, and the other girls would be rude to think otherwise, but now Reimu is showing that not only she is superior in danmaku, she is also superior in her behaviour and ethics.
Im saying that its very possible for you to draw a constant characterization of Reimu being the one that keeps the balance in Gensokyo, by punishing those who do wrong and keeping those who are lost in cordial spirit. The incident had been resolved, and now she's trying to mend things to go back to normal and cooperative between the supernatural beings so that there are no longer hard feelings between them, at least on the surface.

maybe rubbing her superiority isnt the right word, but I hope you get what I meant.

So what's Yukari's endgame?

>>16932714
Killing the youkai from the scroll and fucking up with everyone at the same time

>>16932714
Executing Order 66

>>16932711
> she is also superior in her behaviour and ethics.
Oh, was she trying to show her superiority in ethics when she started choking Remilia in one of the EoSD endings? Or cursing her luck in UFO when she learned that she had gotten a new religious rival, the buddhists? Or completely ignoring the actual villain in DDC (Seija) and just keeping Sukuna for information? Or calling Utsuho a dumbass and getting frustated by her poor memory? Or forcing Tenshi to rebuild her shrine?

And what about the Yama, she's not the villain, so she doesn't need to prove anything to her, yet she held a meal with her anyway at the end of PoFV just cause, she sure as hell can't make it seem like she's superior in ethics compared to her.

She also didn't have a tea party with Junko at all, she doesn't even appear in her endings iirc. She does send her over to Eirin in the extra stage however.

>>16932755
>Seija
>Actual villain

>>16932765
Is this opposite day?

>>16932765
Nobody would think that this innocent angel could even hurt a fly.

>>16932728
Did she really have no better way of doing so like say, gapping inside the library one time, nabbing the scroll and throwing it in a fire?

>>16932807
Where's the fun in that?

So in the previous chapter Kosuzu was all "well, youkai are individuals too, shouldn't be racist and say they're all bad." Now this. What happened? Is she possessed by the scroll? Are her aims not as sinister as they seem?

>>16932841
I assume everything will be revealed.

>>16932755
..are you like, retarded or something? Like cant you read between the lines at all? Must /jp/ spoonfeed you every information at all? Cant you think on your own, take information available, and form an opinion? We are discussing this case by case basis but im sorry your head, that was once or twice were dropped to the floor when you're a baby, cant take it.

This is your post, you autist. You must be that alice-must-be-exterminated guy.

>>16932900
I can't see a single counter-argument in this post. So Reimu is still inconsistent as hell.

>>16932900
>We are discussing this case by case basis
But this is about making a consistent conclusion of Reimu, how can that be if she keeps acting differently so much? In some endings she's very friendly and in others she's her usual aggressive self.

>>16932909
She is at times, but her main personality is that someone that tries to perserve status quo of Gensokyo. If you can wrap your head around this concept, which I know is a huge, huge task for that brain damaged head of yours, then everything would make sense.

>>16932841
She's pissed off at everyone trying to play her, be they human or youkai. So I imagine her words to be oozing sarcasm.

>>16932935
>tries to perserve status quo of Gensokyo.
That's a given, but to deliberately show superior behaviour and ethics as a form of pressure? That I cannot agree with, because half the time she doesn't even act nice. Look at the Yama example, Reimu was minding her own business before she got a visit from her and Komachi, then decided to have a meal for all 3 of em. There's no ulterior motive there because Reimu didn't even expect them. That's how I think all the tea party scenes are, just genuine, regular befriending.

Because of how radically different she acts at times from her usual self, it just means that she's not someone you can define consistently. At least for me.

>>16928940
Why doesn't Yukari just destroy Reimu? Like she could just gap Reimu's shit right back into her stomach or something.

>>16932960
>gap Reimu's shit right back into her stomach or something.
Is there a doujin of this?

>>16932960
Yukari sees more benefit at keeping Reimu secretly at her leash.

Suzy is possessed by Mima. Screencap this.

>>16932989
Suzy is posessed by nonexistence?

>>16928800
>>16932735
Have you heard the story of Sage Yukari the Wise?

>>16932992
Exactly. Suzy is possessed by nothing. Her actions are purely her own.

It's all gonna end fine, Sukuna's gonna come back to her senses after the scroll is taken care of and Yukari's gonna have yet another story to tell her great great great granchildren.

>>16932952
Define "usual self" then.
Is it the incident resolver, who can't let her personal desires get in the way?
Is it the shameless miko, who will take every shortcut in the name of her shrine?
Is it the honest girl, who will sit and drink with all who come and visit?
Is it the benevolent friend, who will bring strange fairies and rabbits in from the cold?

Because to me, all these faces Reimu shows are not only consistent in themselves, they also build on each other to form a bigger picture.
A turned Kosuzu, then, strikes at the intersection of these roles, at who Reimu truly is.
In a Western story, Reimu would have to choose whether or not to put her to death.
But this is not a Western story. The choice was never hers to make.

>>16933012
Ah shit, it was the fucking hammer all along! I should have known!

>>16933060
>Define "usual self" then.
Most of the time she's grumpy and loathes youkai with a passion, something she's keen on expressing. She's laidback and wants to solve incidents as fast as possible. She likes making ploys to attract people even if they aren't honest. She will badmouth her enemies and give them a beating everytime she can. She doesn't like youkai visiting her shrine, which is most of the time, and is happy when it's humans instead as shown in wild and horned hermit. She's ok with youkai making their own stalls at the shrine though, so long as human visitors come.

Because of her aggressive, uncaring nature, especially towards youkai, it's really unexpected for her to get suddenly very friendly with them half the time she solves an incident to the point of saying she wants to become friends with them like in that MoF picture posted up there, only for her to go back to her usual grumpy ways in the next game. The introduction of Kosuzu and how overprotective Reimu is for her is also strange, she's never acted like this before towards anyone, I'm hoping this will be explained before the manga ends.

But I think the biggest proof of Reimu's ''dynamic'' personality is the fact that Miko used her desire reading ability in SoPM and revealed that deep down Reimu actually wants everyone to solve their issues peacefully and doesn't want fights to happen anymore. My guess is that her being raised as a youkai-hating shrine maiden is conflicting with her actual emotions, something that is going to be tested when she learns what happened to Kosuzu. Because the whole manga has shown how extremely concerned about Kosuzu Reimu is while also showing what happens to villagers that turn into youkai, both Reimu's duty and emotions are going to collide, that is what I think ZUN has been building up to.

>>16933139
Also to add to this, I think Reimu was a lot more relaxed and cool-headed in EoSD compared to her later, noisier self. She even did a cheesy quote with Remilia in the last sentence before their first starts, they even both pretended that Sakuya was dead for the sake of drama. You don't see her play along like this with bosses anymore, Utsuho points this out in the Reimu/Aya route in SA.

>>16929280
>Can't wait for Reimu to "kill" Kosuzu just so the Youkai in the scroll is the only one exterminated, leaving Kosuzu without a scratch and then Yukari comes out congratulating Reimu for doing her a favor
My main issue is that the reveal about Reimu meant it changes her role in the story. She was already not very good at her job protecting innocents. But now we know she will kill those who aren't evil as well. Morality and threats are irrelevant, she at this point clearly is an executioner.

I understand her argument, that there is too much temptation for humans to turn into youkai. I disagree with the basis of that argument, in that she completely failed to explain why it means she has to personally be ruling over the human village and kill those she deemed out of line. Instead of a Miko who fight monsters, she is not a Miko who kill humans. And I don't care the guy turned into a Youkai, he is human enough compared to the rest of the cast.

>>16929267
Heaven's Door Kosuzu when?

>>16933211
It's Reimu simply because she was born into the right bloodline to wield the Yin-Yang Cat. She isn't the one who made the rules, and she didn't choose to become the Judge Dredd. In the depths of her heart, she doesn't even want to do this. But like I said earlier, there was never a choice.

>>16933215

>>16933275
>It's Reimu simply because she was born into the right bloodline to wield the Yin-Yang Cat. She isn't the one who made the rules, and she didn't choose to become the Judge Dredd. In the depths of her heart, she doesn't even want to do this. But like I said earlier, there was never a choice.
ZUN decide to do this. And he can't undo it. Regardless of what Reimu personally wanted, she still did a thing that can't be undone. Saying she doesn't want to be Judge Dredd, doesn't change her actions. You are what you do.

It had been for years that we joked about Reimu being a violent psycho. But it is far less funny to find out she will murder a youkai who literally wanted to harm no one. It is the difference between fanon and canon. Reimu is now canonically violent and murderous.

>>16932989
Her corpse will be.

>>16932960
because Yukarin is a respectable young woman

>>16932989
>Way out of touch aura
Shit, she's back for real.

>>16933418
I just want to add, that if it is a grave crime for a human to turn into a Youkai, then it is also a crime to shelter and protect such a person? If the fortune-teller had a human friend who had been aiding and sheltering him, will Reimu kill that human fopr being a collaberator? How many humqans, comeletely innocent ones, will she have to brutally murder for the sake of her laws, that no one in the village seem to know about?

What if Reimu had the secret order to murder anyone in the human village, if she had the technical justification to do so? It's not like anyone in the village knew she does this. If anything Reimu is HIDING her crimes from the humans. She could just as likely to have a bigger human body count than any Youkai. We will never know.

>>16933769
They'd know too much, so probably.

>>16933775
>They'd know too much, so probably.
It's the combination of both having "a crime that no one knew was a crime" and "executions done in secret so no one ever knew" that makes it horrifying.

It is almost certain that Reimu was dependent on obscurity for security. No one knew that turning into youkai would get them murdered, because if this was an official crime then it draws attention to the possibility of turning into a Youkai.

So Reimu had been killing inhabitants of Gensokyo without telling anyone, and with no real authority because no one knew she was doing it.

How is she any different from a man-eating Youkai herself at that point?

>>16933790
Yukari is Stalin and her KGB are the Zashiki-warashi, shikigami and other youkai, also Reimu as her heavy weapons girl

>>16933790
Why are you so certain this is a common occurrence? So far as we know, she has only had to kill this single man. Becoming a youkai isn't an easy thing, and studies of magic and the eldritch aren't exactly on most villagers' agenda.
Even in the fortune teller's case, he had to concoct a ridiculous plan that had every chance of failing if not for the coincidence of Kosuzu ending up with his book.

Also if accomplices got punished the same as the main criminal, Reimu'd technically have to execute herself now, for letting Kosuzu off so many times.

>>16933842
>Why are you so certain this is a common occurrence? So far as we know, she has only had to kill this single man. Becoming a youkai isn't an easy thing, and studies of magic and the eldritch aren't exactly on most villagers' agenda.
The point here is that Reimu is committing the gravest sin of crime prevention; she is enforcing a law that only she knows about.

If it had been public knowledge that trying to turn into a Youkai gets you killed by Reimu, then I would understand. But here it is pretty clear that the crime itself was a grave secret. That Reimu can't let anyone know the crime even exists. This is inherently unjust. There is few things worse than secret laws that the population is forbidden from even knowing about. The townspeople are being left to believe that Reimu is out protecting the townspeople, when in reality she is their jailer and executioner. She is deceiving all the humans.

>>16933790
>a crime that no one knew was a crime
I'd say that the obscure thing is the punishment, not the crime itself. While it's not explicitly defined, one can realize that turning into a youkai is a crime. All people in the village know about the youkai and think of them as hostile enemies to any and all humans. So turning into a youkai can be basically considered treason against humanity. No one really wants to do that.
>no one knew she was doing it
People can also conclude that the punishment for this treason, which disrupts the Gensokyo's balance, will fall on the shoulders of the person whose job is to keep that balance - the Hakurei miko.
There's probably no need for security through obscurity to keep that order, plain old fear will do the trick just fine.

>How is she any different from a man-eating Youkai herself at that point?
She's "in the right" from the ideology standpoint. Most people in the village would agree that punishing traitors to humanity is different from killing regular humans for food and fun.
Her actions might not be that different from youkai, but her justification is.

>>16933869
>I'd say that the obscure thing is the punishment, not the crime itself. While it's not explicitly defined, one can realize that turning into a youkai is a crime. All people in the village know about the youkai and think of them as hostile enemies to any and all humans. So turning into a youkai can be basically considered treason against humanity. No one really wants to do that.
Your argument makes no sense. That has nothing to do with how the Human Village works. The fortune teller was once human, and he certainly feared Youkai for the harm they do. And that was why he made it clear to Reimu that he intend to harm no one. This must be the common belief of the humans in town, because that's what the readers believed too. That Youkai are bad because they hurt people.

But Reimu is telling him that in secret, she needed to kill him even though he isn't a threat. That threat had nothing to do with it. I seriously doubt anyone in the human village shared that view.

>>16933887
>>16933866
Reimu says that the fortune teller did not do enough research, meaning this is public knowledge somehow.

Yukari also knows about this rule since she tells Kosuzu about it.

>>16933887
Harm or no harm, he still betrayed his humanity. He wanted more power, the power he couldn't have as a human. The lust for power has outweighed the fear of the youkai in him. And if he haven't gotten really unlucky with his resurrection timing, his wish would have been completed, he would've successfully switched sides. This is enough to be counted as a traitor, with all the consequences that come from it. He fully understood all this when he made the spell to become a youkai.
And besides, even if he wanted to do no harm to humans, he still would do it later down the line. He's not a fucking fairy, who are manifestations of nature and don't need anything serious to exist. He's a full youkai who needs humans to believe in his existence and fear him to survive and remain powerful. Traitor stuff aside, Reimu knows this since she's been exterminating youkai for god knows how long, so she doesn't give a shit about how he plans to be a good guy on the bad guys' side. Thus she just disposes of this liability before the fortune teller succumbs to his new nature, comes back and attacks people out of plain hunger.

>>16933887
>she needed to kill him even though he isn't a threat
But he is, youkai need humans to survive, so humans turning into youkai is bad for Gensokyo.

>>16933418
>Reimu is now canonically violent and murderous.
She was like that in PC-98 too

>>16934056
Saying that she killed Orange is like saying she killed Sakuya because she and Remilia mention how Sakuya's dead in their eosd conversation.

>>16934006
>And besides, even if he wanted to do no harm to humans, he still would do it later down the line. He's not a fucking fairy, who are manifestations of nature and don't need anything serious to exist. He's a full youkai who needs humans to believe in his existence and fear him to survive and remain powerful. Traitor stuff aside, Reimu knows this since she's been exterminating youkai for god knows how long, so she doesn't give a shit about how he plans to be a good guy on the bad guys' side. Thus she just disposes of this liability before the fortune teller succumbs to his new nature, comes back and attacks people out of plain hunger.
Then you are arguing that Gensokyo should be destroyed.

The Youkai in Gensokyo is only still surviving because of the barrier. If your argument is that Youkai should not exist, then it is Reimu's responsibility to break the barrier and let the Youkai die. You can't argue otherwise. Youkai co-existence is either allowed or not allowed. Reimu in this case, is killing a weak and self confessed "good" Youkai, and doing so in complete secret so humans wouldn't find out about it.

>>16934080

>>16934003
>>16934011

>>16934080
Just to repeat, I don't have so much the issue about the killing, as much as the secrecy of it. You are pretending what she does is common knoledge when the manga made clear iti s anything but. If Reimu made it clear to the rest of the village that this is what the rules are, then I will have no problem with it. But it is certainly not the case. She assassinated someone in secret.

>>16934090
>You are pretending what she does is common knoledge when the manga made clear iti s anything but
How? Reimu said that the fortune teller didn't do enough research or else he'd have known about this. Yukari tells Kosuzu about this rule too.

Gensokyo metaphysics aside, Reimu had another reason not to trust FT when he said he meant no harm. Suzu was KO when she barged in. Not only is that a potential violation of "Don't go after the villagers," it also tripped Reimu's imoutocon. Yeah, he was straight fucked.

>>16934098
>How? Reimu said that the fortune teller didn't do enough research or else he'd have known about this. Yukari tells Kosuzu about this rule too.
"Research"?
So you are telling me, a grave crime that would get you executed, is so obscure that it requires "research"?

How reassuring. It would be like finding out what the laws are when the documents are hidden in a broom closet in the basement labelled "beware of the leopard".

>>16934090
A lot of knowledge is available to the humans of the Human Village, most of them just don't care to pursue it. See: Suzers never having even read Akyuu's books on youkai.

>>16934113
You're being petty now, you thought this was a law nobody knew and now you know that this is public knowledge you try to diminish that fact by assuming it's obscure.

You do know that even learning about the fact that murder is illegal in the united states is research?

>>16934109
>Gensokyo metaphysics aside, Reimu had another reason not to trust FT when he said he meant no harm. Suzu was KO when she barged in. Not only is that a potential violation of "Don't go after the villagers," it also tripped Reimu's imoutocon. Yeah, he was straight fucked.
You are trying to argue that she had ulterior motive to kill someone who hadn't harmed anyone?

I am not sure it is much better than following cruel and secret laws.

>>16934114
>A lot of knowledge is available to the humans of the Human Village, most of them just don't care to pursue it. See: Suzers never having even read Akyuu's books on youkai.
The fact is if there are crimes that get you executed in secret, then there is something wrong.

>>16934117
>You're being petty now, you thought this was a law nobody knew and now you know that this is public knowledge you try to diminish that fact by assuming it's obscure.
>You do know that even learning about the fact that murder is illegal in the united states is research?
No it does not. We are raised with the knowledge that murder is illegal. It is taught. This is an important part of a legal society. We can only obey laws if we know what the laws are. Clearly, Reimu believe otherwise.

>>16934114
Reimu mentions that nobody reads Akyuu's books, and the latter doesn' even deny it.
>>16934120
>secret laws
Can you please stop saying this? The laws are public knowledge, it's the fortune teller's fault for not knowing.

>>16934090
>She assassinated someone in secret.
She didn't do it in secret. Not only she told these three about the extermination, she also mentioned that he was a resurrected human.

>>16934133
>Can you please stop saying this? The laws are public knowledge, it's the fortune teller's fault for not knowing.
It does not match existing lore. It is new to the reader, because the characters in the story does not at any stage suggest the law exists. And we have youkai who were former humans, and had been the case for dozens of games.

>>16934120
You're assuming from the omniscient viewpoint. We know Kosuzu just fainted. But from Reimu's perspective, that's a youkai with a KO'd human prey. Which isn't supposed to be going down in the village.

>>16934131
>No it does not. We are raised with the knowledge that murder is illegal. It is taught.
And that's research. Even going to class to learn something is research.
>We can only obey laws if we know what the laws are. Clearly, Reimu believe otherwise.
How many times does it have to be said that the laws are public knowledge? There are cases of criminals commiting crimes that they claim didn't know were against the law, has that ever worked for them? No.
>>16934150
That's on ZUN's part to explain, ask him.

>>16934145
>She didn't do it in secret. Not only she told these three about the extermination, she also mentioned that he was a resurrected human.
She didn't mention that he meant no harm. Of course it is to her interest that she gave the impression that the guy was a dangerous spirit. It keeps the fact that she killed an innocent man away from scrutiny.

>>16934156
But he isn't innocent, he did the greatest sin, one that affects Gensokyo's status quo.

Man you're really desperate to twist this as much as you can don't you?

>>16934154
>That's on ZUN's part to explain, ask him.
No really. The discrepancy doesn't have to be caused by ZUN. It is just as likely that Reimu had been murdering innocent former humans for years but hide the fact from the likes of Alice. ZUN doesn't need to explain why Reimu is a psycho.

>>16934156
How the hell is he innocent? He fucked not only with Gensokyo's laws considering youkai and humans relations, he also broke the laws of life - you don't get to come back mostly harmless after you die.

>>16934162
>But he isn't innocent, he did the greatest sin, one that affects Gensokyo's status quo.
Multiple people in multiple games have affected Gensokyo's status quo. Basically all of THEM survived. Why did THIS guy die? Oh, yeah, because he is weak and defenceless. He is killed because he didn't defend himself.

>>16934131
>We can only obey laws if we know what the laws are.
It's on the humans of the village in this case. They just don't care to learn the laws. They live an idyllic life in something they perceive as a safe heaven, and rarely if ever step outside of it due to their own ingrained fears.

You could make the argument that over generations the drive to acquire knowledge of the laws has diminished (because let's face it, it would with that kind of lifestyle), but said knowledge is still available. Most villagers just don't give a fuck because they're living happy enough lives.

>>16934171
>How the hell is he innocent? He fucked not only with Gensokyo's laws considering youkai and humans relations, he also broke the laws of life - you don't get to come back mostly harmless after you die.
The entire major cast of Ten Desires literally did this too. THEY are still around. Their entire purpose was to break the law of life.

>>16934168
Of course it's caused by ZUN because he has to explain why this is the first time we've seen this law and why doesn't it apply to other jinyous. This is called a plothole. You're spouting assumptions.
>innocent
There's that word again.
>>16934174
Because the one he did is, again, the greatest sin, are you not reading? His very existence is a threat to Gensokyo.
>>16934183
Ask ZUN.

>>16934183
Those weren't Gensokyo's humans, and as such not under Reimu's jurisdiction. They ARE being hunted by Kishin, however (we've even seen Seiga being attacked first-hand), under whose jurisdiction they fall.

>>16934194
The only one we know that's being hunted by the kishin is seiga, because she's a hermit that's broken the rules.

>>16934200
All hermits are hunted by and combat Kishin/Shinigami for prolonged life.

>>16934209
But the good ones get an easy pass while the bad ones like Seiga get hunted down. Komachi mentioned this.

So what's Mamizou's plan now? It didn't turn out the way she wanted right?

You guys are thinking about it too much, if it's a cute girl she somehow survives if it's a guy then he dies horribly, as simple as that.
Just watch as Kozusu gets away with it.

Are ZUN coming to the states again anytime soon? These whole back and forth exchange between thinking men and a super worrywart and paranoid autist had gone far enough.

But I dont think even a straight answer from the man himself would sate him. Fucker probably need to laugh at ZUN face for 5 minutes while saying and clapping "you fucked up!" like toddler before he quieten down.

>>16934294
Has he really been asked about lore-specific issues before? From what I recall everytime he gets asked something it's about game development in general, how he gets his ideas, how he makes the bullet patterns, etc.

>>16934292
What if Kosuzu actually were a cute boy?
>>16934294
ZUN almost never gives straight answers to this kind of autistic questions

>>16934286
Try and play what she said to kosuzu as a joke

Reemu did nuttin wong

>>16934321
She did everything wrong, if she killed the tanuki nothing like this would've happened.
Actually,if she never approched Kosuzu in the first place nothing like this would've happened.

>>16934333
if Kosuzu was just a normal booklender without supernatural powers Reimu probably would never take a second glance at her.

>>16934333
this would've happened with or without her involvement because it was Akyuu spilling the beans about human-youkai relations, Mamizou telling her she wanted the scroll and finally Yukari telling her god knows what that made her end up like this.

>>16929236
>>16929291
are we certain a fight happened and it wasn't just that big dark power blast caused by opening the scroll we see in the panel that knocked Marisa out?

Marisa is a weak bitch

>>16929280
This because Kosuzu can't have a bad end or I'll cry.

>>16934356
Does it even matter if there was a full battle or if Marisa just got chumped? Either way, it means she didn't stop Y!Kosuzu from doing the thing.

>>16934439
If Kosuzu actually dies then ZUN will become the most based person on eath

>>16934439
this is how Kosuzu will die
>>16929143
>>16929174
>>16929189

>>16934449
>>16934455
Nope. This is just an incident like any other. She'll get the youkai slapped out of her and live in peace and make lots of friends like everyone else.
Bad ends are bad.

>>16934463
Yes, nothing bad will happen, everyone will be fine and have a good laugh about it in the end.

>>16934471
Why didn't you protect that smile, /jp/?

>>16934566
Because we are too busy arguing amongst ourselves like a bunch of old washerwomen to bloody well notice sadly.

>>16931720

Sanae's reason runs in the family though, we know nothing about the Harureis.

At this point, it just comes down to waiting for the next chapter. We've all got our thoughts on how this will all turn out based on previous chapters, how optimistic we think the work is, and if kosuzu has actually gone full youkai. So all there is now is waiting and shitposting.

I'm personally in the camp of "youkai or not, she won't be killed" but I do want her to keep slipping a bit further away from being a pure human seeing as she's full on channeling the curse scrolls which mamizous noted have already been affecting her just from being around them so the suuz getting more magic taint makes sense

>>16934754
>I'm personally in the camp of "youkai or not, she won't be killed"
Of course. She is a female. The greatest sin you can commit in Gensokyo is being a man.

>>16934808
rinnosuke seems fine.

>>16934754
>"youkai or not, she won't be killed"
It's probably the safest bet, yeah. However, this ending can very easily shit the bed and ruin the whole manga if there are like no consequences or lasting effects in the end.

>>16934842
LOLK seemed like it was gonna be grimdark and have lasting effects on the plot and in the end nothing bad happened.

>>16934815
>rinnosuke seems fine.
He is kept alive for now. But who knows when the Gestapo would drag him away into the woods and make him disappear.

>>16934842
>However, this ending can very easily shit the bed and ruin the whole manga if there are like no consequences or lasting effects in the end.
The only consequence is destruction of Reimu's status as a guardian of Gensokyo. She is either going to kill an innocent girl, or spare an innocent girl but killed an innocent man. It changed nothing either way, Reimu can't be trusted.

>>16934842
That's part of why I think kosuzu should slip a bit further away from human because of the exposure- If I had to guess, I don't think she's gone full youkai, she's just lost it somewhat thanks to the scrolls and whatever intentions she had have gotten corrupted. So things start off with reimu going to fortune teller the suuz but not wanting to, until she twigs that the suuz hasnt gone full youkai, is able to get the scrolls off her, purify the suuz somewhat, even if some of the damage is already done. Suuz is a bit less human, has to start dealing with that- maybe gets help from keine, maybe starts trying to get herself into a position like keines where she is someone who can represent village in larger matters.

>>16934863
>but killed an innocent man
No.

>>16934183
>The entire major cast of Ten Desires literally did this too. THEY are still around. Their entire purpose was to break the law of life.

Except they went about it in a completely different way, for completely different reasons, becoming something completely different from a youkai, and everything they did occurred long before Gensokyo even existed. They weren't humans actively trying to bump themselves up a few notches in Gensokyo's food chain, like old Count Chocula, they were just trying to live forever.

In case you forgot, one of the points they keep hammering on in FC is the "rule" that youkai are the enemies of humanity in Gensokyo. The fortune teller wasn't simply a human trying to live forever, he was a human who was purposely trying to switch to the side that supposed to be the enemy of humans.

Miko's crew did nothing like that. Not only are hermits not youkai, they are actually regarded as a delicacy to youkai. Their means of escaping death didn't make them a new enemy of humans, they made themselves a more appealing target to youkai.

There is simply no comparison between the two. The Taoists became a new ally for humans in doing what they did. The fortune teller defected to the enemy of humans, and so became an enemy of humans himself.

>>16934727
The Hakurei bloodline is needed to use Yin-Yang Orb, so it's even more necessary to keep it in the family.

>>16935197
didn't Seija use them?

>>16934842
Like LoLK and SSiB?
It's almost 100% certain there won't be lasting effects on the setting, what I'm hoping won't be botched are the effects on our perspectives of the characters. That's usually the only thing ZUN bothers expanding.

>>16935276
Seija's Reimu's youkai imouto, after all. The Bloodthirsty Ying-Yang Orb is enchanted with Yukari's magic, even.

>>16930155
>Thing is, most human villagers are totally fine with their situation
What option do they have? It's either a benevolent dictatorship or an evil dictatorship, but a youkai dictatorship at the end of the day. They can't exactly contact the outside world.

>>16935870
>What option do they have
But they don't even know, they're indoctrinated as such. And they don't care, because they don't even read Akyuu's books.

>>16935880
>But they don't even know, they're indoctrinated as such
And that's what makes it even worse. Even humans 4000 years ago had the benefit of contacting or being able to flee to other communities. The human village has that denied so they can be better beef for youkai. If anyone who knew the full story wanted to destroy Gensokyo they'd justified.

>>16935957
They do know about the outside world however, Akyuu says that outsiders that glitch into Gensokyo and manage to reach the Hakurei shrine without becoming youkai chow so that Reimu takes them to the village become celebrities due to their modern outside world knowledge. That makes me think that there are villagers interested in leaving.

>>16935870
They have a mutually beneficial relationship with the youkai. The youkai protect the humans from disaster and the humans provide faith to them.

>>16934078
>Saying that she killed Orange is like saying she killed Sakuya because she and Remilia mention how Sakuya's dead in their eosd conversation.
At least Sakuya appears on the EoSD endings.

Orange pretty much dissappears altogether with her last words being "I don't want to die yet!".

>>16928800
I bet everything that Reimu will be a hypocrite feminist.

>>16933006
It is said that she became so powerful that she could actually . . . save pregnant yukkuris from dying during childbirth.

>>16936301
>They have a mutually beneficial relationship with the youkai. The youkai protect the humans from disaster and the humans provide faith to them.
The human village didn't agree to this. Somehow Reimu stopped serving humans and start to serve Youkai. Humans are just farmed for their faith, like cattle. And Reimu's job is to make sure the cattle stay right where they are.

>>16934168
>All this projecting
>All this assumption

>>16935880

Yukari controls what's in the history books anyways

>>16928800
Why is Kozusu such a giant fucking bitch?

>>16938673
ksz did nothing wrong

>>16937690
Solid proof that Yukari is a smug manipulative bitch.

>>16929124
>Seriously, who the shit wouldn't want to be a youkai?
I become hourai doll (inmortal) first

>>16928940
>implying she can
alice probably have ultimate magic in that grimorie

>>16929189
I can feel in suzu bones

>>16930425
>not driven mad by prions
you only need to avoid eat the brain anon

>>16931698
manners =/= likes

>>16931711
>It's more of a belief thing than fear
is disney all along

>>16931892
>she doesn't want fights to happen anymore
however in WaHH she isn't happy without fights

>>16937036
There's no proof that Orange died, and not only is eosd proof that they don't take their dialogue seriously, but ZUN himself said so in the PCB music section comments for Alice's theme.

>>16937521
How is she serving youkai when she keeps ruining their plans, beating them up and even killing them at times like the spirit that posessed the rich old man from the village?

Maintaining a status quo doesn't mean having bias. Hell she doesn't even know what Yukari's planning most of the time.

>>16940378
why do you say that? the moments she's been at her happiest has been when she's collaborating with youkai to get more popular with humans.

remember that time she even forgot she was a shrine maiden because of how focused she was on her recent fortune telling? the chapter even ended with her doing the service to youkai which the narrator said was succesful although we never heard from that again.

>>16940378
Like most Gensokyo residents, Reimu likes to danmaku. Also like most Gensokyo residents, she does not like incidents. Unfortunately, her job is incidents.

>>16938873
She keeps making Reimu, Marisa, and even the damn tanuki have to look out for her because she can't keep her curiosity in check and look what happened now. She deserves to be exterminated.

>>16940677
Reimu A's ending in LLS shows Marisa releasing all the demons Reimu sealed, so even if Orange really did get sealed she got released in the end anyway

>>16930960
>>16930966
It's actually kutsutsura from one of the earlier chapters.