/jp/ - Otaku Culture

I want to ravage Sakura's room.

Third route shat all over the other two routes.

I thought it was amusing that according to HF, Shirou had feelings for Sakura for a long time but never realised them, but it only took a couple of days being with her sister in UBW for him to completely forget about her.

>>1685762
That's because Rin is superior.

>>1685762
What I thought shirou got a crush/admire Rin?

That's because Rin, although double faced, did show almost immediately her true personality to Shirou when they started to see each other frecuently, instead of keeping it hidden like her sister.

He didn't like it at first, but then he fell head over heels.

>>1686117
There's a slight difference between "I'm secretly tsundere" and "Your good friend repeatedly rapes me because he's jealous of my magical power"

>>1685705
>ideals
Ahahaha.
You know what I find funniest about Shirou superhero "ideals" ?

I MUST SAVE EVERYONE
I MUST BE A SUPERHERO
I MUST PREVENT SACRIFICES

Good thing Shirou, why not begin with the lone girl that gets beaten by her brother and never smiles at school ?
Come on, the girl that cooks for you everyday ?
Ah, all that talk and the only person that really needed help was in front of him, and he didn't notice until it was too late. What a nice HERO...

>>1686164
So "FUCK EVERYONE ELSE" is better than actually making an attempt at his ideal? Granted, it may be better than what he ends up when going through fate (ALLOYOFJUSTICEALLOYOFJUSTICEALLOYOFJUSTICE), but what he ends up with after ubw is far superior.

>>1686164

You mean the girl who always smiles when he's around and is attacked by her brother at home and won't tell anyone about it? How was he supposed to know?

>>1686208
>ALLOYOFJUSTICE

SHIROU IS THE HARDEST METAL KNOWN THE MAN

>>1686208

Not so much fuck everyone else, but do what normal people do and assign more importance to the people that, you know, he personally cares about and are part of his everyday life. This is the natural extension of him realizing he can't save everyone.

>>1686164
Aspiring being ah ero does not mean you are always succesful, or you are sharp enough to notice other peoples hidden plight.

He only knew that Shinji was rough on Sakura and mane times was at the border of punching his lights out.
Sakura stopped him in most cases, whenever he had an argument.

>>1686237

lol'd....hard

also the best taiga

>>1686256
The faggotry with that was that that choosing to not abandon his ideals made for a dead end. UBW shirou is superior.

>>1686332
Way to miss your images!

>>1686208
>"FUCK EVERYONE ELSE"
This is not what Shirou did, he found himself for the first time doubting his actions. He could have saved dozens, possible hundreds, by killing only one person.
One for many, but he couldn't do it, in HF Shirou finally discovers that it doesn't matter what the others say, life isn't equal and can't be treated with mere numbers, he realized that Sakura's life had more value for him than all those people. End of it.
FATE Shirou it's just a light side version of Kotomine, carried around by his ideals, while UBW Shirou is where he found out that saving everyone was impossible but he was still too weak to give up his way of life.
Rember ? "This is the only path" ?

>>1686280
He wanted to save everyone, he didn't want those around him to suffer.
But what about the girl beated by her brother ? We saw him getting involved in a whole damn war, waging battles bringing himself near to death to save Ilya in FATE and defeating Gilgamesh to save Shinji in UBW, JESUS CHRIST, SHINJI !
And he just beated Shinji even though he knew nothing was solved ? Because Sakura said it was fine ? No, Shirou said it himself, it's not like he didn't notice, he didn't want to notice.

>>1686280
This is Shirou we're talking about, he was never the sharpest sword in Gates of Babylon, if you know what I mean.

>>1686377

oh no my fellow anon, i did not miss

>>1686386
In a ceartin aspect, family violence is not something someone can just jump in.

Should Shirou just go to Shinji and Zoken and say 'If I ever see a bruise on her, I'll call domestic authorities'?

It's a far more complex issue, compared to one where you just jump in and save the day.

A superhero can save someone from danger, but not from sadness or unhappiness.

And Sakura did her best to not ever let Shirou about the true scope of her suffering.

That's why the revelation of tit all makes Shirou have doubts.

>>1686386
>FATE Shirou it's just a light side version of Kotomine, carried around by his ideals, while UBW Shirou is where he found out that saving everyone was impossible but he was still too weak to give up his way of life.
AHAHA OH FUCKING WOW.
UBW shirou actually realized his ideal was flawed but accepted it, rather than what he did in HF (it's not perfect? FUCK IT, I'M OFF TO SAVE MY BITCH).

>>1686416
>it's not perfect? FUCK IT, I'M OFF TO SAVE MY BITCH
I see nothing wrong with this way of thinking.

>>1686426
I, however, do. Agree to disagree?

>>1686426
Especially if it means hot dicklings.

>>1686386
UBW is the superior route. Shirou in that route is the core of what Shirou is. Fate is just weaksauce Shirou, HF is aberration Shirou.

Shirou is not a super hero in any route. Just a man living up to ideals that, no matter how impossible they may be, are so beautiful and precious to him that he can define his life by them, no matter how painful it might become because of that.

"I have no regrets, this is the only path." is not a declaration of weakness, but of understanding of what one desires at the very core of himself.

If anything, UBW Shirou is infinitely braver than HF Shirou, because HF Shirou gives up himself entirely to save another. He loses himself instantly and can live a happy-touchy life with Sakura afterwards. He trades his own values for something external, giving up on what he truly believed in.

UBW Shirou has committed himself to his ideal completely and will never waver. Even though he knows the outcome via Archer, he will walk a path of heartache regardless. He internalizes something pure at the cost of years of future pain, in order to embody that purity.

Which is braver? Giving yourself up completely for a future in which something good might come out of it or might result in horror, or committing yourself for a future that you know will be terrible and has no hope of reward except the fulfillment of your own ideal?

>>1686448
Sure.
After all this is /jp/, some are bound to have the same tastes as japs.

>>1686449
>dicklings
>l

>>1686344
Wasn't a dead end.

>>1686461
protip: a "dead end" doesn't mean you end up dying.

>>1686461
It said "BAD END", meaning that Shirou survived (not DEAD END), but obvious that was a mistake and it should have said "GOOD END".

>>1686457
Considering that alternative he had to face in HF, it was just as brave a choice, since just choosing to save Sakura didn't mean 'Hey, we are happy right away'
Instead of choosing his ideal, he found something new important to protect.

Maybe it doesn't sound as brave or selfless, and a 'hero' not choosing the highest path lacks impact, but it's nowhere near an easy choice.

UBW = male thinking Shirou
HF = female thinking Shirou

Females don't understand the importance of ideals.

>>1686487
It wasn't a brave choice at all, it was thinking with his dick and turning into a cowardly bitch.

>>1686344

Best ending.

>>1686487
Actually, HF Shirou is more selfless than UBW Shirou. He gives up his own ideals, the very core of his life, for a woman that isn't even sure what the hell she wants.

The worst decision in the world is to give up yourself for a cowardly woman. He threw himself away without much chance for anything good coming of it. It was more stupid than brave.

>>1686510
>>1686505
In other words, you guys mostly sislike the fact it was Sakura, rather than the action itself.

Shirou NEVER makes the easy choice, no matter the route.
Debating which is harder or better is stupid, since in the end he just reached a different happiness (excluding HF Normal and Saber end)

People changes, the world changes. What did Shirou see of the world ? He's just a kid, he knows nothing of what's going on around him.
UBW Shirou it's going to become just like his father during the previous war, a cold war machine made from swords with no feelings and just his ideals giving him strenght.
What would he do if he found out that by killing Rin he could save 2 or more people ? He'd kill her, there's your "hero".
I prefer him being human and fighting for the future, instead of constantly fighting for the past feeling guilty because he was the only one that survived that day.

>>1686457
Well, Archer tells Rin that if she stays with Shirou he won't become Archer.

That if he has Rin, he'll have her love to help her get through everything while they'll support each other.

You know, like in a real relationship.

>>1686536
...You missed the point.
Really did.

>>1686536
He's not fighting for the past. He's fighting for the present. The Shirou that he is now. The ideals he still has that he doesn't want to sully.

And UBW Shirou was not like Fate Shirou. Fate Shirou thought you could save everyone. UBW Shirou only desired to save those he could; those close enough for him to reach. He hoped he could save everyone, and desired that outcome, but he was ready for the reality that he couldn't.

Archer was more like Fate Shirou. He thought he could save everyone. So when he couldn't, he started coldly making exceptions in order to save a larger number. He lost himself little by little behaving like that, completely losing focus on the present by looking at the bigger picture. He thought about the statistics instead of the people he was saving.

UBW Shirou would do what he could, go out in the blaze of glory if he had to, but would not compromise his own integrity or his mission's integrity. Call it conscious heroism.

Fate Shirou: Lawful Good. Follows his ideal because it's the right thing to do. Boring alignment.
UBW Shirou: Lawful Neutral. Follows his ideal because it's his ideal. NO REGRETS, THE ONLY PATH. Lawful Neutral is the best alignment, and I only ever play Lawful Neutral characters. 4e D&D fails because it got rid of Lawful Neutral.
HF Shirou: Chaotic Evil. LOL SLUTKURA, FUCK IDEALS, FUCK EVERYONE ELSE, I'M GONNA GET SOME PUSSY

>>1686603
HF Shirou would be more like Chaotic Neutral. Doesn't subscribe to his ideals, but doesn't want to harm others. Is willing to overlook crimes if it suits the situation.

Zoken also wanted to save everyone, so did Archer.

Funny how things turn out ... HF is the correct choice in the sense its impossible to save everyone, same happened in Fate (watch the Osen extra), same happened in UBW and the same happened in HF.

What I want to know is, where the fuck was Matou Zouken in Fate and UBW, and what was his reaction when the Grail was destroyed and then dismantled forever.

Probably something like "FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF-"

>>1686650
"Atleast I still have my new host body."

>>1686640
Zoken didn't want to save everyone. He wanted to reach the source, originally. Though he also wanted to help Justica. Then, he gave up after years and just wanted to live.

Archer never made the critical realization that Shirou did until it was too late: you can't save everyone. So when Archer finally realized that, it was meaningless due to all the guilt he felt. Shirou understands that, though, meaning it won't be meaningless.

>>1686650

Waiting ... in HF he says he was not planning to enter this Grail War but the opportunity was just too good to pass, also looking at Archer recognizing the shadow and saying it was too soon it indicated that could happened in the future.

>>1686679

Bullshit, read the part were he talks with Ilya ... he simply lost track of that goal until he was reminded WHY he wanted the Grail in the first place.

That is why he was content in dying, it just shows how ideals can twist or be twisted when faced with reality.

>>1686680
Archer recognizing the Shadow more probably means a trouble concerning pure evil manifesting in the world rather than Sakura's case specifically.

>>1686603
You're reading to much into those; Shirou is Lawful Good in Fate and UBW, he only slips to Neutral Good in Heaven's Feel-- he's still fundamentally good, despite having given up his Lawful ideals.

>>1686691

Doubt it, Shiro recognized it immediate but refused to accept that fact but still he knew.

>>1686700
He is probably closer to Neutral, since he is allowing tons of people to get killed for one person.

>>1686689
What part of my post is bullshit? He didn't want to save everyone. He wanted to reach Akasha. Though since he also loved Justica, he also wanted to help her, too.

But after living for hundreds of years, his soul was so degraded that he just wanted to live.

I'm still not sure how Shirou was abandoning his ideals in HF. His goal was always to save everyone and not allow anyone to be hurt. Killing Sakura for the sake of saving others would betray that. Sure it was unrealistic of him to expect to save Sakura while not letting anyone else die, but Shirou's ideal was always unrealistic.

In the other routes he lets enemies go knowing that they might kill again because he doesn't believe that he has the right to kill them, so I don't see how his actions are any different in HF. At least in HF he didn't know that Sakura was killing people. I think the only person Sakura killed after Shirou knew for sure what she was doing was Zouken, but I could be mistaken. Of course he knew she had the potential to kill, but because he wouldn't even kill people he knew had hurt others I don't see why he would be expected to kill Sakura.

>>1686704
I'm talking about Archer's experience.
He didn't seem sure himself that this was Sakura's.

And Counter Guardians exist to fight such things, fighting it once in the endless times he is one is not hard to believe.

Besides, Sakura manifesting the Shadow or becoming Dark after the Grail War is pretty much impossible, so that would mean that Archer would have to deal with Sakura too in his Grail War.

>>1686710
He is not 'allowing'.

Instead of taking the easy way and kill her (thus no potential danger', he takes the risk of saving her which is much harder to.

Whether it is 'killing' or 'saving' , failing either would mean trouble.

The point is that the hero of 'Justice' should not take the leastprobable route, when dealing with such a threat.

You guys take your argument to extremes.

>>1686727
Killing Sakura is not the easy route. Killing friends is extremely difficult. Only those with a Mind of Steel can manage it. Especially as it's not just killing Sakura, it's killing everyone in the Grail War.

Allowing Sakura to kill thousands of innocents is the easy, cowardly route.

>>1686741
Easy and hard, as in 'Actually achieving it'.
Not the mindset required.

>>1686727
By definition, if you're fighting to save people, you cannot allow someone to act against them if you know about it.

>>1686771
By the point he first made the decision, Sakura is just a 'probable threat' though.
And you do not condemn before something actually happens.

Sakura accepts the Shadow and actually starts the shit later.

>>1686771
But Shirou didn't know for sure that Sakura was killing people. Killing someone based only on the possibility that they might hurt others wouldn't not be fighting to save people.

Then there is the whole issue of Sakura originally being unaware of her actions and whether or not it is ok to kill someone who has unintentionally hurt others.

>>1686801
Shirou knew all along that she was the Shadow. He just didn't want to admit it to himself because he was afraid that he'd have to make a choice like that.

So it's mostly Shirou's fault that he didn't confront her earlier.

>>1686808

Well Shirou knew he just refused to admit it to himself which I guess is the same thing.

I'm fairly sure Sakura did know what was going on even if she couldn't control it though. She was apologizing to Shirou saying it was all her fault after he got attacked by the shadow for the first time.

>>1686809
'Suspected' and 'Knew 100% and was in denial'?
Not the same thing.

Noone is eager to recognize someone he cares about as a monster, evil or whatever.

You take things far too seriously, methinks.

But what if someone other than Sakura became the person he threw everything for.

>>1686820
He'd try to help them, but if he knew there was no hope, he'd kill them. Just like with Saber, which was the only UBW thing Shirou did, even if he painfully regretted having to do it.

If your favorite dog went rabid, you'd put it down. Not as easily applied to a human, but you're still forced to make a logical, reasoned choice weighed against emotional attachment.

>>1686836
Well, one out of the 3 Shirous let go.
It's another path to life.
I just personally wish it was Ilya he did everything for...

>>1686809
I'm normally on your side with these things, but I don't think he knowingly denied that Sakura was the Shadow.
It was probably more an unconscious safety mechanism to protect his vision of Sakura. Before the facts were thrown right into his face he probably truly believed that Sakura wasn't the Shadow and only after that fact did he realize he knew all the whole time.

>>1686874
I think he knew. He just suppressed the truth. So it was his fault, in the end, because he was unwilling to face reality.

>>1686887
Well, he never had cold, hard facts before that.
Imagine killing Sakura and then Zoken comes out and says 'FOOLED YA'.

...

That should have been a joke mini route or something.

You guys are kinda forgetting something...

Shirou is void. He's a fool because he feels no real desire to help people nor wishes for that happiness Kiritsugu had. That's Kiritsugu's ideal, not his own. That's just a thing that he clinged into to survive.

That's it, he doesn't have any real desire of his own, at least not until he wants to protect Sakura.

And at the end, even Kiritsugu was leaded into despair because of that ideals. Yes, he received the same answer that HF Shirou, only that he received it late, when Iri was already "dead" and he will not see Ilya anymore.

UBW never was supposed to be a answer to nothing. They only get the "it's beautiful" thing, but Emiya Shirou is cursed neverthless. Well, maybe Rin can do something to avoid him ending so bad as Archer, but that way of life will backstab him someday.

>>1687060
In Fate and UBW he does make the ideal his own. It's the difference between Shirou and Archer in the end of those two routes. In HF he just makes a different decision for himself.

Beisdes that, in Fate Shirou says taht his void was filled by his feelings for Saber.

>>1687087
We didn't know if the "he made the ideal his own" it's really true, as in the final Tiger Dojo they say that the only "answer route" is HF.

But yeah, I think that he will not end as fucked as Archer, but if Kiritsugu (AKA: the origina owner of the ideal) didn't ended very well, I don't think that him will end better.

>>1687103

Fate Shirou will probably end like Kiritsugu. Last Episode pretty much shows this; Shirou is conflicted by his desire to see Saber again and continuing his mission. He chooses Saber. Like Kiritsugu who finds that he only wanted to be with Iris and Ilya.

>>1687103
You misinterpreted that.

Every route is a different answer.
And if you read that, you'd notice that the chances of being like Archer are RIDICULOUSLY low (10% and 5%)

>>1687164
That's not what the game says. You only have to read the final dojo. Fate and UBW shows "Emiya Shirou way of living", and HF is "an answer".

But yeah, the chances are low. That didn't mean that he can't end fucked in some other way, as that ideal is about that.

>>1687184
I read the onsen, and HF ending, unlike the other two, has a clear resolution concerning Shirou's path(how he lives, while the other two show the beginning of his new path (how he will live).

Hence it's an answer in that measure.
Not truer or anything in that fashion.

>>1687200
Yeah yeah, of course, that's what I meant, that it's more like a definite answer.

It's the whole thing about HF ending, "grand finale", "resolution", etc...

>>1687217
I love you man.

Most people just spout
'HF IS THE ONLY CANON', whereas nasu has never done a proper followup before.