/jp/ - Otaku Culture

>He could easily ignore Shirou and watch him fail miserably or set him up for a trap, but instead he helps him and gets either a smart-ass comment or a snort in return.

Oh the irony of this comment! At least play all the way through the Fate route before making a topic like this.

>>1602551
I think Shirou is scared of the homoerotic vibes Kotomine gives off.

>>1602555
He should be aroused instead.

That's the power of George Nakata at work.

His voice alone is threatening.

Kotomine is a useless fraud of a priest with no real purpose in any of the routes. Until you witness the off the scale AWESOME that is Heaven's Feel. Other than the rest of the great stuff in the greatest route, you'll finally get some character development with Kotomine, understand his thought process and motives, and also get to see him simply being GAR. I mean like SAVE THE LOLI GAR and fucking purging the unclean and shit. And then the final epic battle at the end of Heaven's Feel. Kotomine, a character who I thought was worthless and annoying in Fate and UBW, suddenly became great when I finally got to Heaven's Feel. Hell, everything was better in Heaven's Feel.

>>1602601

It's only natural that Heaven's Feel was the best. Its the finale of the whole game. Where all the loose ends are wrapped up, where everything that wasn't resolved or was hidden is brought out and fixed, and its True end, despite the route itself being the saddest of the three, is made oh so sweetly happy BECAUSE it was such a tragedy. Fate and UBW serve as build-ups to the finale. It's only natural that the last route is the best one by far.

To get back on topic though, here's Kotomine behaving like all self-respecting anonymous should.

Isn't it fucking obvious? Shirou is tsundere for Kotomine.

>>1602551 He could easily ignore Shirou and watch him fail miserably or set him up for a trap, but instead he helps him

I think you just answered your own question. I'm guessing you're not really well-acquainted with the concept of irony.

>>1602630

Now that you've mentioned it, it is true. Shirou finally realized that he likes Kotomine in the finale of HF.

>>1602630

Yeah, doesn't he finally come to say that he and Kotomine are alike at the end of HF? And that's the reason that they can't get along?

>>1602640
It's the same reason why Kotomine and Kiritsugu hated each other. They were so horribly similar, but they had one major difference that made them polar opposites at the same time.

Mind you, Shirou at the end of HF is probably a lot more like Kotomine than any of his other incarnations.

Finale of HF reminded me of MGS4

Is anything that Shirou does remotely sensible? Why should this be any different?

>>1602666

In what way?

>>1602675
Well, he IS attracted to certain girls.
A hint of a man's NORMAL passion exists within him.

>>1602601 . Until you witness the off the scale AWESOME that is Heaven's Feel.

>>1602680
But compared to Fate and UBW, HF is awesome. Fate was just okay, and UBW was a big disappointment, except for the GAR parts. HF blows the other two out of the water.

hay guise, I just spoiled Heaven's Feel for you!

But seriously though, I liked HF the best.

Heaven's Feel eh?

I'd let Sakura consume me, if you know what I mean.

>>1602702

*wink wink nudge nudge*

>>1602702
Me too...

fuck.

>>1602715
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-

Oh S-Sakura...

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-

I'd have Sakura help me cook our meals, if you know what I mean.

I'd make passionate love to her, and you know damned well what I mean!

Dumbass Shirou.

Stupid sexy Sakura spent a year and a half secretly begging for your cock and masturbating to you, and you intentionally avoided her because you're afraid of you sex drive like a little boy.

>>1602875
...you lost me.

>>1602936
Who'd want a slut like her?

Centipedes? In MY Vagina?

>>1602960

After getting her away from Zouken and Shinji, she'd be your slut and no one else's.

I see no problems.

>you intentionally avoided her because you're afraid

sounds like /jp/ in a nutshell

When you kiss Sakura and eat her out, are you sucking Shinji's penis indirectly?

>>1602994

This is... AN INDIRECT BLOWJOB??

*blushes*

>>1602994
>>1603005


...Wait, does that mean that if you eat your girlfriend out, you're essentially giving yourself an indirect blowjob?

>>1603016
>>1603005
>>1602994
Fuck you guysO_o

>>1602994
Pretty much, which is why I jammed down my Ctrl key during the h-scenes.

I usually go through the h-scenes just out of curiosity but I really didn't want to see these.

They also ruined the story and reminded me why I can never let anyone know that I played this game.

I can't wait until everyone in a month from now hates HF with a passion. Just like what happened to UBW.

>>1603016

Knowing Japanese anime conventions, probably yes.

I never understood the "indirect kiss" obsession. I have shared many a drink with both boys and girls and the thought never even crossed my mind.

>>1603023
>O_o

>>1603027

I'm already there. HOW THE FUCK CAN I SPEND ENOUGH TIME WITH BOTH ILYA AND SAKURA NOT TO GET KILLED?

NOT ENOUGH LOVE?!?!? RAAAAAGE!!!

Easy game suddeny turned into Tsukhime for christsakes.

>>1603027
No, not really. I hated UBW while I was playing it but HF is pretty good so far.

I'm pretty sure it's because of Kotomine, Ilya and Tohsaka. Mostly Kotomine. It's nice to listen to someone who isn't retarded.

>>1602761
fix'd

>>1603038
Use flowchar and change flags, retard.

>>1603046

That's cheating dumbass.

>>1603028

But we've all shared drinks and meals with our sisters. Hmm.

>>1603025

>They also ruined the story and reminded me why I can never let anyone know that I played this game.

Pathetic.

You don't have to bring it up, there's no good reason to actively hide it.

>>1603027

I thought that it was already starting up.

I remember people saying that it was boring and overhyped as soon as a couple of days after it was released.

This is why you can't take 4chan hating anything seriously. The community here despises a lot of good things with a passion.

>>1603049

>cheating in a visual novel

>>1603038

It's not hard. It's easy to pay attention to both Sakura and Ilya. The route is longer than all the others and there are plenty of opportunities to get flags. I think I probably picked up way more than the required flags for both, since I got all of the Ilya scenes and always payed attention to Sakura at the same time since I like her character, and so I never ended up getting one of the pre-empted "you don't love me enough" deaths.

>>>1603086
>pre-empted "you don't love me enough" deaths.
well fuck those. If i rape my waifu she won't love enough so she will suck my blood. what a cruel world.

>>1603058
Are you saying its not possible?

>>1603025

You are dumb. First, her H-scenes are some of the best in F/SN, and they are ALL better than that lousy excuse for an H-scene in UBW. So you're missing out. Also, you are a cold hearted bastard who is extremely narrow minded and picky. So she has to be a virgin for you to like her? Because you know she was raped, you think that you are somehow going to be "tainted" or made unclean just because you have sex with her? You're an idiot. Your logic is twisted. You're worse than moralfags.

Also, if your grievance against Sakura is that she's a "slut" then that doesn't work either. She is a perfect girl normally, but she likes sex. But in case you haven't figured it out yet, she's a faithful slut. She's devoted to one person: you. I don't know if you've gotten to the part where she turns into Dark Sakura, but if you haven't, then I guess you can wait. If you have, then you already know what I'm talking about. She feels disgusted when other people touch her. She loves Shirou and is devoted to him. Hell, if you get the bad end where Shirou dies, she stays faithfully waiting for him to come home until the day she gets old and dies. It's hard to find devotion like that in a girl. She has suffered a lot, but she still won't lose hope in you. Sakura truly loves Shirou.

>>1603131
Rider isn't a virgin but I like her a lot. I hate Sakura because she has a shitty personality.

HAY OP AT LEAST WATCH THE WHOLE ANIME OR PLAY THE GAME BEFORE MAKING THIS THREAD

>>1603131
0/10

>>1603196

0/10

>>1603131
That's not what I meant in the slightest, I just didn't feel like reading porn because I wanted to get to the story since it was actually pretty good.

I don't read VNs to fap, and I didn't feel like breaking my 5 month fap-free streak for it.

The fact that it got you so stirred up over it is entertaining, though.

>>1603183

Well, that's a legitimate reason. Everyone has their own preferences for personality. Personally, I don't like Rin much. I guess I thought she would be a nice girl way back when I was playing Fate, but as I started to go through UBW and then finally through HF, I started to view her as kind of a bitch. I don't like her that much, and I couldn't get attached to her in UBW much at all. Sakura on the other hand, is a perfect waifu and I just want to hold her and tell her I'll be there for her and protect her.

>>1603209

Well, I wasn't just addressing you specifically, the rant was directed at the usual group, your post just happened to be a good opportunity. There is an option in the installation that skips the H-scenes right? When I first installed it, I remember that being an option. I agree though, the story is pretty good. If you don't like to fap to VNs then they would certainly get in the way, considering that there's several of them in HF.

>>1603131
But Sakura is a real cock-hungry slut. How can you not be disgusted with her?

>>1603209
>5 month fap-free streak

Sakura destroys everything Shirou was fighting for

Also, she killed my King.

>>1603027
only good thing with hf was kotomine and the background info, the actual route was by far the most boring one~

just played this for the fist time recently, got the heavens feel good end.

replayed it and keep gettign UBW dead ended

>>1603245
If you've read the story, how can you be disgusted with her?

>>1603271
I'm still kinda annoyed with both saber and Sakura, concerning their affection with Shirou.
But these are tastes.

I cannot say I've disliked HF, but it was far too overhyped.

- It's certainly longer than the other 2 routes, but just a bit longer, not twice as long as some people used to claim before.

- Deep plot? Not really (or, at least, not particularly deeper in comparison to the other routes).

- Mysteries solved, that's true.

- Awesome battles? Just Shirou vs Saber Alter. Shirou vs Berserker was an awesome scene, but a shitty battle. Shirou vs Kotomine was badass too, but it was a mediocre battle at best.

- I found Sakura to be boring, seriously boring and uninteresting. She felt like the typical main character in shoujo mangas. Her story was sad, but I found no relevant depth in it, as some people used to claim. In this regard, I'll go with Fujino or Kohaku any time. Those were good and interesting tragic characters, in my opinion.

- Badass Shirou? Hell Yes. More interesting? Hell No.

- Fast pacing? No, seriously no. The first 10 days felt like some sort slice of slice with a touch of suspense, but that's it.

>>1603267
>first time
>heavens feel good end
cool story bro

>>1603286
>slice of life

>>1603271

Have you seen the True End of HF?

She gets everything she wanted.

FUCK THAT!!!!!!!!!!

The bitch needed to atone for her sins. This is why I preferred the Normal Ending.

Sakura had a shitty personality and was a god awful Heroine.

Not to mention she was absolutely expendable.

>>1603292
Tracing Caladbolg against Black Saber makes the game end prematurely with the Good End right after using Rule Breaker.

>>1603327
I doubt it does that on your first playthrough (of FSN)

>>1603338
It does.

Sorry guys but when Sakura presented herself and talked about how horny she was my dick broke my pants

>>1603352

So good that it makes you vomit?

I couldnt believe how sad the true end was. Shirou dies, leaving Sakura alone who cant function normally and just keeps waiting for him to come back, until she dies of old age? WTF.

>>1603386
Actually it's normal ending.

>>1603386
Normal end.

And yeah, it's kinda sad. But not half as sad for me as Fate end or HF True end, because Ilya sacrifices herself for Shirou in the true end. Ilya, who had known much worse pain than Sakura and had never really known happiness like Sakura had for the two years with Shirou.

Despite all that Ilya might have been a bit twisted, but was a much stronger person and didn't wallow in disgusting self-pity like Sakura. All it took for Ilya was a few days to go from nothing to a truly great person.

>>1603386
That's normal end, not true, faggot.

>>1603435
Indeed, after playing HF, I'd have preferred a "Brother protects sister" kind of route, rather than the "broken yamato nadeshiko" one. And you'd still have got a human Shirou approach.

Ilya was just too awesome in HF.

>>1602702
>>1602715
SUPPERTIME

>>1603307

Yes, she "sinned." So did Shirou by abandoning his ideals and "sacrificing many to save the one most important to me."

But this is the natural progression of F/SN. This is the end of the line that he was supposed to reach. His ideals were childish and naive, believing that he could save everyone without having to sacrifice others. In Fate he holds on to that belief and has it reinforced. This will lead him to become just like Archer, disenchanted and hating himself in the end. Which brings us to UBW, where he realizes that his ideals are naive and that saving one person means that you could not save another, and that people will only save the people who are on their side. This is what his father told him. This is also where he confronts the idea of the anti-heroes who can not be saved. You may save the many innocents, but the villain was not saved. This prepares the next progression to HF, where he abandons his ideals and decides that if he's going to save someone, he should save the person that he loves. Even at the cost of others. He comments in UBW on how his life is empty, as if he was dead because he does not live for himself since his life should have ended long ago. In HF, he decides that he can still be a hero, but he should live for the ones important to him, because living for himself gives him a sense of self.

Wherever anon falls in the spectrum is not important. You can't say its Sakura's fault. He chose his path on his own. And you don't seem to understand that merely being punished by dying (if he had killed Sakura after finding out) doesn't change anything. Atonement comes from living with the guilt. They both will carry that burden of the things they lost with them forever.

>>1603386
that was the normal end

>>1603435

I was also sad when Ilya sacrificed herself for Shirou. She basically just did for him what Shirou was about to do for Sakura. Sacrifice herself for the one that she loved. She basically took his place because it was within her power to do so and save him, and because she was going to die soon regardless, just like Shirou was. It was very sad.

But that being said, I don't think you can say she had "much worse pain" than Sakura. They endured different kinds of pain, though I'd say that Sakura had it a bit worse. She had no one to rely on to protect her, nobody was there and nobody cared. With Ilya, at least she had Berserker to protect her in the wilderness against the beasts during the training.

I can forgive someone for self-pity, especially in Sakura's case. In fact, I'd say she was very strong, maintaining her determination through those 11 years, where she didn't know happiness, and then getting a taste of it when she meets Shirou and starts gaining hope and emotions again. It's hard to break out of the emotionless armor you put on yourself after enduring that kind of abuse. She was always alone before, so coming out of her shell to put hope in another person must have been very frightening.

>>1603477
>>1603525
tl;dr
ur a faget

>>1603544
NO U

I, for one, was unable to feel any empathy for Sakura. I mean, yeah, your life sucked. But uh, there there.

I think I'm starting to reject moe.
That's also why UBW was my favorite scenario by far. Because, Rin. Ohhhhh Rin. NNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG.

>>1603552
Rin doesn't do shit in ubw. She's much better in the other two routes.

>>1603552

You know, I'm not done with HF yet (just got to the part where Sakura kills Gilgamesh) but I'm kind of hating Rin a bit in this route because she's being such a bitch to Sakura. Tsundere is fine when it's against someone who either bitches right back or doesn't mind, but when it's against someone who's already physically, mentally, and emotionally falling apart tsun-tsun is just plain being a fucking bitch.

Of course I've read the spoilers and all so I kind of know how it ends between them, but still.

>>
True. Rin at her most epic is at the end of HF. That's one of the reasons that HF is better than the other two. The characters who usually don't do anything decide to DO something awesome, and characters who got little or no development suddenly are developed, including Sakura. And the main characters that are usually doing something awesome decide that they can go ahead and continue being awesome in HF.

>>1603562
I agree totally.

>>1603561
True. Rin at her most epic is at the end of HF. That's one of the reasons that HF is better than the other two. The characters who usually don't do anything decide to DO something awesome, and characters who got little or no development suddenly are developed, including Sakura. And the main characters that are usually doing something awesome decide that they can go ahead and continue being awesome in HF.

>>1603562
I agree totally.

>>1603561

Yeah, Rin's route is somewhat hijacked by the Archer/Shirou subplot, moreso than Shirou's development in the other two routes draws attention from the heroine.

But then again, as you kind of bring up, it's offset by the fact that she gets so much attention in the other two routes as well. As opposed to Sakura, who basically disappears not even a quarter of the way through Fate and UBW, or Saber, who gets a lot of attention in Fate and UBW but is knocked out early on in HF.

>>1603580
>>1603602

lol oops, got an error thought the first one didn't go through. Oh well.

>>1603562
so, everyone is all "zOMG Rin is tsundere loev" and when she actually sticks to her character and doesn't back off just because of plot or 'everyone is nice and all' shit she's hated? Rin was always a bitch, it just that everyone chose to see that as the 'tsundere' label.

>>1603621

I can't speak for everyone else, but I've always thought Rin was a bitch. Saber and Sakura are far superior. I don't fall for Tsundere that easily.

>>1603562 I'm kind of hating Rin a bit in this route because she's being such a bitch to Sakura
Because she's right?

Slut doesn't deserve happiness.

>>1603676
Neither do you, Anon.

>>1603689
At least I don't go around murdering people in my sleep.

>>1603699
You probably would if you had the power to, though.

>>1603699
You are sleeping so how would you know that you are not killing people when you are asleep?

>>1603724

Oh shit. You got him there, Shirou.

>>1603724
Good ol Shirou.
Standin up to Anon for Anon.

How do you save a person from themselves?

>>1603561

Beats the everloving crap out of Caster
Saves Shinji
Partners up with Saber and is able to have Saber become more powerful than she ever could with Shiro.

She did plenty.

>>1603676

I agree with this.

Anyone who wallows in self pity and is possessive and an all around expendable bitch doesn't deserve it.

>>1603724

She knew she was killing people. Did you forget when she killed Shinji and remembered all of the people she killed in her sleep and started laughing maniacally?

Thought not.

>>1603897

That was when she finally broke and got taken over by the shadow. Of course she's going to laugh, she's turning into "all the evil in the world." But before that, she just thought she was seeing nightmares and didn't realize it until a later dream, and she wasn't happy about it.

>>1603562

It only made me love Rin more. She's tsundere but Anon seems to forget that she could've killed Sakura but didn't.

I don't see how that merits her as a bitch. She let Sakura live instead of killing her.

She acted cold towards Sakura. Big deal.

>>1603904

She was still aware of it even in her dreams.

>>1603897
I suggest you read more than just the post you're replying to.
Might save you from looking retarded.

>>1603891
Being possessive and wallowing in self-pity has seldom been more justifiable.

If you, through no fault of your own, are put through what she was put through while seeing other people doing fine, noone else treated anywhere near like you. Wouldn't you be bitter and pity yourself?
If you then find something, some one, that seemed to make life worth living just by being there. Wouldn't you do everything in your power to hold on to it?

>>1603914

I read more before I replied. She was aware she killed them.

>>1603925
I wouldn't pity myself. I'd get the fuck over it and move on with life.

No. There's a difference between holding on to something and putting it in a cage.

Sakura did the latter.

>>1603927
He wasn't talking about Sakura.

>>1603932
Right, I'm sure you would.

What? When did she do that? Was that in a bad end I didn't get or did I just forget about it?
I know she was tempted to do it, for example when she considered breaking his limbs to stop him from fighting, but mainly what she actually did was run away from his attempts to save her (which in turn caused more trouble but that wasn't her intention)

>>1603947

Metaphorically speaking.

Not physically.

She always got jealous when she saw Shiro hanging out with anyone else. She asked him questions when he got home late.

If she loves him then she shouldn't be so possessive and learn that he'll be alright.

All you anons who are condemning Sakura are getting your morals backwards.

You are condemning someone who didn't do anything wrong, but was tortured and abused for most of her life. At the same time, you then condemn her when she is finally pushed over the edge with the help of the shadow and kills Shinji. Unlike Sakura, Shinji deserved to be punished. He inflicted pain and harm on others first. Sakura isn't the criminal here. She is just retribution.

Heaven's Feel talks a lot about good and evil. Kotomine talks about how both sides are angels of God, and that one cannot exist without the existence of the other. Angra Mainyu also represents this. He is evil created to prove to others that they are good. That's just Kotomine speaking though.

And if you are saying that "she doesn't deserve happiness" and all that, then who does? What did she do to deserve the things that happened to her? If you can be blameless and still don't deserve happiness, then nobody deserves happiness. The people that she consciously decided to kill are Shinji who abused her brutally when she didn't do anything wrong, and Zouken who tortured her by changing her circuits and body into a Holy Grail with the worms. Killing them is not crime, it is divine retribution for their crimes, as Kotomine would probably say, given his example of the Evil angel of God.

My other point is that Sakura doesn't hurt anyone until the Angra Mainyu, her shadow starts to take her over and forces it. She is killing the people subconsciously, so how can you blame her for that? That's Angra Mainyu and Zouken controlling her body, not Matou Sakura. On her own, she would never have hurt anyone, even though she was hurt so much by others. She just wanted her small wish of being near Shirou. She accepted that her life sucked, and she didn't care as long as she could have that opportunity for that small happiness.

>>1603944

Oh. My mistake.

>>1603909

Yes, she is a bitch the whole time, and intends to kill her. But at the very end, she realizes that she can't do it and apologizes to Sakura for being the way she was. She admits she is wrong and realizes it. That doesn't mean that she isn't being a bitch. It means that she became a better person at the end of HF, and thus the happy True End where they become good sisters is possible where it wasn't before.

>>1603955

A. Shinji was treated like utter shit and didn't have anyone to care for him. His family treated him like air and Sakura pitied him. Just because he was ppular at school didn't mean anything to him. It was his family and Sakura he had the grudge against. Shinji didn't deserve any of the ire from his family just because he was born that way.

B. What did Shinji do to deserve ire in his childhood? He was condemned for being born with no magical circuits. Even by his own father. I see no justice in hating Shinji yet saying Sakura had it hard too.

C. No. She whined about her life sucking in her battle with Rin. She whined a lot. And that was Sakura. Not the Angra Mainyu.

>>1603968

Eh. I don't care if she's a bitch. I still love her.

slowpoke here, but if I want to check this out, which version do I download, something like this - http://sukebe.nyaatorrents.org/?page=torrentinfo&tid=7134

>>1603952

So she's not allowed to ask questions about where he goes at night getting hurt?

She's never done anything to put him in a cage. She's not allowed to be a bit possessive about the one person who has brought her happiness? The one she loves? Who ISN'T possessive about the one they love? Wouldn't you want to protect that person, keep them from getting hurt, and keep other people from taking that person away from you? By the point in the story you're talking about, she's not done anything wrong.

I also think you're forgetting, but "learn that he'll be alright" doesn't apply in this case. Its the holy grail war. Most of the masters are supposed to die. His survival is in no way ensured, and he is in danger every time he goes to fight. WE know that he will survive because he's the protagonist. She doesn't know that because she's in the story.

>>1603979

Why isn't she allowed to complain about it? It sucked. And yes that was her, but she didn't complain before Angra Mainyu, and she didn't kill anyone before that either. She didn't commit any crimes until she started becoming the Dark Holy Grail. But yet she was made to suffer. I think we can allow her a bit of liberty to complain about how everything sucks and how others have it kinda good.

>>1603985

I know people are possessive. But it doesn't matter. That isn't love, you should have confidence in the one you love. Otherwise what's the point of loving them if you can't trust them at all?

I understand about asking about wounds and stuff, but when he comes home late from just going to get groceries she jumps on him like she's married to him.

If Sakura really loved Shiro enough and she wasn't caging him up then she should have enough confidence to know he'll come back to her. And she should just be happy and satisfied with that.

>>1603979
Sakura never took out her feelings on others. That's what Shinji did that made him deserve what he got. It wasn't his fault he was treated badly by his family and I can't blame him for resenting Sakura and her pity.
I can however blame him for treating others badly, raping Sakura, abusing Shirou etc (true Shirou didn't stop him even though he could have, but seeing his personality there was no way he would have)

If anyone has a reason to whine it's her. She had lived her whole life keeping it to herself and you'd hold it against her that would finally whine about it in that situation?

>>1603477
>. In Fate he holds on to that belief and has it reinforced.
>This will lead him to become just like Archer, disenchanted and hating himself in the end.

Nasu disagrees.

>>1604003

She tried to use it to make Rin feel sorry for her.

>>1604006

You mean kinda like how she faithfully waits for him to return to keep his promise to see the cherry blossoms until she turns old and dies? She loves him. He loved her. He loved her, and yet he too is concerned for her safety. Its not about possessiveness. Its about caring about the wellbeing of the other person and not wanted them to get hurt. The Holy Grail War is like saying "Have confidence in me, I'm going to walk into this burning building and emerge from the other side, don't worry about me, I'm not going to die or get seriously hurt."

They both are worried about each other and don't want the other to go out and do something stupid. But you can't say that they don't love each other because of that. That's counter-intuitive.

>>1604020

When you're treated like utter shit for almost your entire life you're entitled to do something about it.

He raped Sakura as a way of revenge towards her. And abused Shiro as another way.

It was partially Sakura's fault he was morphed into the Shinji he became.

It's only fair she takes responsibility for it.

>>1602601

Where is this pic from? Some kind of sideroute in HF or something? Or entirely fan-made?

Either way, Kotomine is the real deal of HF. It helps that I'm addicted to Mr. Nakata's voice.

Interestingly enough, I found the mapo tofu scene absolutely brilliant.

>>1604006
>That isn't love, you should have confidence in the one you love. Otherwise what's the point of loving them if you can't trust them at all?

Not trolling here, and this may be a silly question but, you've never been in a relationship, have you?

>>1604042
>Where is this pic from? Some kind of sideroute in HF or something? Or entirely fan-made?

New CGs from Réalta Nua

>>1604029

I kinda understand what you're saying. But I still believe you should have confidence in the one you love. And just be happy when they return to you safely and not jump on them.

Whoever the other anon(s) are who are defending Sakura against these cold-hearted emotionless bastards, I thank you. We should continue to ally. In a platonic way. Not in a Shirou way.

>>1604044

You want me to be honest? Yes. I've never been in relationship.

But I've seen several relationships like this. It always sickened me that the two people couldn't just be happy that one returned to them safely.

Meh but that's just the ramblings of an idiot who's never been in love himself.

>>1604060

We can't all be eternally forgiving of expendable characters.

>>1604006
She's never had any reason to be confident in anything. I don't exactly recall the situation where he was just late from buying groceries... I guess it was when he met with Ilya? And she knew that the holy grail war was going on and that Shirou was involved. She just pretended not to.
And not being jealous is a fantasy. Even if you trust the person you love completely there is some degree of jealousy when someone else is interacting with that person, especially in her case as she didn't think he was interested in her and so wouldn't have any reason not to get involved with anyone else. Plus she didn't have anything else so of course she'll be jealous when someone else is with him, especially someone she looks up to like Rin or who is as beautiful as Saber.

>>1604042
In some ways, I find Kotomine to be the least fucked up of the Fate cast.

He knows he's not right. He knows he's evil. He has common sense to live like others. He just chooses to try to understand himself and his place in the world around him.

How? By causing as much to go wrong for others as he possibly can, and by seeing to it that a god of hatred is properly brought into the world.

And by tempting Shirou. Often.

>>1604082

I can see your point.

Still doesn't mean I can't dislike it.

>>1603955
>Sakura isn't the criminal here. She is just retribution.
She tried to kill Kotomine and at that point the worst thing he did to her was save her life and give her a escape route at the church as well as killing her grandfather and defeating Assassin.

I'm surprised at every one though that missed the reason why Rin was cold to Sakura though. Hint: Who is going to have to kill Sakura if it becomes hopeless to save her?

>>1604036

Shut up Shinji.

"When somebody is treated like shit for their entire life, they are entitled to do something about it."

Oh ok, then there's nothing wrong with Sakura killing the fucking bastard for abusing her when she didn't do anything to him. "She pitied me?" Are you fucking kidding? That's all the justification somebody needs to become a monster?

She was the stronger person for enduring the pain for so long without striking back at others. Shinji is just a cowardly weak bastard who takes out all of his insecurities on others so he can feel good. And he's taking it out on people who haven't done anything to him. And whatever injuries you think Sakura inflicted upon Shinji's poor, delicate psyche (sarcasm) with her pity, she didn't choose to replace him. She was forced to against her will. How can you blame her for that?

Also, you can't compare his insecurities with the kind of torture Sakura had to endure. You can't even compare the two Matous, not in pain endured, nor in strength of their souls. Shinji is a little bitch. Sakura is an iron wall compared to him.

>>1604044
The normalfag definition of love and relationship is stupid. Why do you think there are all those fucking breakups of "Well, I didn't really like the guy at all, but the sex was good so I thought I'd let him believe I liked him." Because people are idiots doesn't mean he's wrong.

>>1604079
He has spent a lot of time seriously struggling to try and do what is right and learn to enjoy things that "should" be enjoyable.
He's really honest with himself and I respect that. And of course his voice is awesome, without it I'd have scrolled through a good bit of Kotomine's ramblings or at least just skimmed through them but I couldn't click next until he was done talking.

>>1604105

Shinji was a little kid. His mind was like a sponge back then.

And yes that does apply to Sakura. But Zoken was the reason she was treated the way she was.

When she killed him that should've been it.

>>1604109
What normalfag definition of love? And he is wrong. That kind of "love" is only achievable if you have no concept of self and that's just not healthy.

>>1604117
Shinji still has to take responsibility for his actions. That's something he refused to do, he kept abusing others even when he had grown old enough to be able to make decisions for himself. He just kept acting like a spoilt child and had no consideration for anyone other than himself.
It's not as though anyone held a gun to his head and told him to rape Sakura whenever he felt like it.
Also Sakura killed Zouken after she'd already killed Shinji so even if that had been it it'd still been to late for his part.

You can only have a truly healthy relationship when you love yourself. It's not about you being good enough for another person, or that person being good enough for you. It's about you being good enough for you, to begin with.

Two people who like themselves getting together don't need to worry about stupid shit like "WHAT DOES SHE THINK ABOUT ME? MY ENTIRE LIFE IS DEFINED BY THIS QUESTION!" They just do things together, ask themselves if they enjoy it or not, and then move on from there.

They build piece by piece a relationship built off of talking and acting. The foundation is their own inner character, not the necessity of being with each other. They're with each other because they want to be, not because they have to be.

The problem with the majority of people in the world is they define themselves by others. That just causes all sorts of problems and shitty relationships.

Two people that are together because of sex? That's cool, if they both want that. Two people together because of a financial situation? That's cool, too, as long as they both understand what's involved.

>>1604105

Sakura was nothing more than a tool for the Makiri. Shinji was an actual blood related family member. He tried hard to live up to the family line knowing he had no magical circuits. He tried and tried thinking the family had some pride in him.

When he saw that Sakura, an outsider who was brought into the family as nothing more than a tool was chosen next. Shinji was nothing more than air.

At least Sakura had people that loved her and would forgive her shortcomings.

Shinji had nothing.

>>1604160
I'd like to say that too but it's a far too shallow and idealistic picture that does not consider human nature.
Also, piss off tripfag.

>>1604161

I understand Shinji taking responsibility for treating Shiro, and Rin like crap. Shiro was his only friend and he treated him like crap. But then again Shinji used to be nice to Shiro. We don't know what happened to Shinji to make him treat Shiro so terribly but I get that he had to take responsibility for that.

But not Sakura. She was one of the people who brought pain upon him. Who destroyed his identity. She had it coming. Whether it was rape or a beating. She had it coming.

Yeah I sound like a cold bastard, I don't care.

>>1604163
>At least Sakura had people that loved her and would forgive her shortcomings.
This is why I hate her. She had all those things yet she constantly denied there existence until she piratically killed them.

>>1604163

"Sakura had people who loved her"

They weren't around when she needed them, were they?

She didn't meet Shirou till much later, and Rin was separated from her. She wasn't loved by anyone at that time.

I can't believe that you are convinced by Shinji's little whining rant in the middle of the story and then try to hold him up over Sakura, where the ENTIRE STORY is telling you why she's got the most justification to become a monster. If she wasn't the most justified, if she didn't have the most reason to be bitter, she wouldn't have been so compatible with Angra Mainyu that even Gil was astonished by it when he confronted her and tried to kill her.

>>1604163
But she didn't.
Until she met Shirou, as far as she knew, she had noone and nothing. Hell even after she met Shirou she couldn't rely on him because she didn't dare to risk losing the relationship she had with him.

>>1604183
But she did nothing to cause that!
If someone picks up a kid who happens to be walking by, swings him around and his foot hits you in the crotch, would you say you're entitled to take out revenge on the kid?
I mean what the hell?

>>1604181
No, it takes into account human nature perfectly. Most humans are terrible, terrible creatures, which is why their relationships don't work.

People who go into relationships expecting to become strong, who are weak beforehand, will be ruined by them precisely because they are mistaken in the order of things.

>>1604188
>>1604192

And? She could've learned to have forgotten everything bad in her previous life after she met them. They loved her and they would forgive her, but she didn't. This doesn't justify her. If Shinji didn't have to abuse people then Sakura didn't have to keep dwelling in the past.

Simple as that.

>>1604200

She was a tool of the Makiri and he was a blood member of the family who tired hard to make up for his handicap.

She pitied him. She who was nothing more than a tool.

What do you not get about this?

She was one of the people who brought pain upon him, he did not want pity from an outsider and more importantly he did not want pity from a tool.

He became air with that.

>>1604183

Wow. You are an asshole if you can sympathize with his spoiled child way of thinking. Think about it this way:

Shinji is saying this: I am the special one. But this girl, who was supposed to be nothing, supposed to be just air, ends up being the one who gets to be a Magus. So now I'm the air. And she feels sorry for me. That's SOOOO unjust! So unjust and wrong that I have to become a monster and rape and beat her mercilessly for the rest of her life until she finally cracks one day and kills me.

You are ridiculous. How can you compare his tiny mental trauma of "Oh I'm not as special as I thought I was because I'm not moar 1337 than normal people" to Sakura, who was raped and tortured with pain unlike anything having her Circuits changed by the worms over 11 long years? Since you are having trouble answering these questions, I'll answer them for you. YOU CAN'T COMPARE THEM.

>>1604216

No. He knew she was nothing more than a tool for the Mato. He knew he wasn't special. He admitted this. You're the one with the childlike track of mind not seeing that Sakura, a tool of the Mato family and SHinji who tired his hardest despite his handicap and seeing Shinji as weak despite seeing all his work went to nothing.

Most humans are like this. You're probably not any different. I can sympathize with him because I'm like that to an extent but most humans refuse to admit they think they're the special ones compared to another. Even though it's true.

>>1604216

>Wow. You are an asshole.

Welcome to the real world, faggot. Several people are like this. Get used to it and shut the fuck up.

>>1604204
She didn't dare to risk what little happiness she had found for the possibility of lots of happiness (she didn't think they would forgive and love her and so she convinced herself that just watching Shirou be happy is enough). That's at least understandable and didn't hurt anyone else but for Angra Manyuu who killed through her because she had all that anger inside her that she couldn't act on.

Shinji actively hurt people to relieve some of his pain and frustration, not because they deserved it but for his own pleasure. Acting out like a child throwing a tantrum.

Not reaching out for fear of getting hurt and hurting others to make yourself feel better are not the same thing.

>>1604235

And Shinji didn't dare to risk losing the small amount of power he had for the first time in his life. They are no different.

They could've not done it. But they did.

Simple as that.

>>1604236
Doesn't mean they're not assholes.

All this talk seems like.. a conversation?no trolls? well done /jp/, well done.

>>1604242
The difference is that one hurts people who have done nothing to deserve it while the other doesn't.

>>1604244

And? Your point?

Humans act like assholes and don't see it from the other person's perspective and just like to choose sides and make themselves think that side is the correct one.

>>1604247

Again. Shinji was acting with the same mentality as Sakura. Although different circumstances.

Shinji had power, Sakura had love.

There are two instincts embedded in human beings.

Desire for power.
Fear of Death.

You're condemning Shinji for an instinct.

>>1604160
> The problem with the majority of people in the world is they define themselves by others.
Don't get me wrong on this one, but the exact opposite is also a very bad way to build personal relationships.

Going around and generally thinking you're fucking awesome while you're actually quite the asshole with an overblown ego is mighty fine for you, but that doesn't exactly create a good foundation for a friendship or a relationship. Narcissism in all of its true glory makes one of the most annoying characteristics a person can have.

I doubt it's possible for people to be agreeable without realizing what other people think of them. I don't mean to say that you should live up to someone's every expectation, but going around saying "AWESOME" every time you see a mirror is in general a bad way of dealing with others.

Having said that, dealing with other people often changes yourself or your opinions. In a way, the influence society has on you redefines you ever so slightly as time passes. I doubt anyone can define themselves without considering the opinion of others about themself.

As on the subject of long-term relationships after a while when you start noticing the short-comings of the person you thought was so great, you either decide that you can deal with that or not. Those who try to deal with things they can't live with (eg. she was a bitch, but the sex was great) generally end up miserable.

>>1604245
Get out. This is actually one of the best threads in /jp/.
Keep going guys, I've been following this thread for 2 hours and it's awesome.

>>1604255
You're missing a lot of instincts, but the most important one is the fulfillment of self-destruction.

It's what makes criminals try to get themselves caught. It's what turns us from our successes onto the path of imminent failure.

We all desire our own destruction. Even if we suppress the actual desire, we still expect it. Human aggression through time has morphed into an impulse to end oneself.

We fear death, but seek our own destruction.

We're quite strange creatures.

>>1604247
Meet
>>1604100
You can't condemn Shinji without condemning Sakura. Likewise you can't defend Sakura without defending Shinji.

>>1604261
He meant the basic instincts.

If we're getting into detail then yes he would be missing a lot.

>>1604255
But still. The point that I think is the most important is whether protecting yourself hurts others.
I'd always say that you can do whatever you want as long as you don't hurt someone else. The only person you're responsible for is yourself and the only person you can control is yourself. This also means you have no "right" to affect others:

>>1604245
Funny, I made this thread because of the meta thread complaining about how terrible /jp/ has been lately.

Glad to see that I pulled it off somehow.

First, I'd like to say that there will always be people who don't understand the struggles or personalities of some of the characters in the game, seeing as how the three heroines are all so different. People may be trying to justify Shinji here because they experienced something similar in their own lives and so when they read his little speech, Sakura turned into someone that they hate, instead of the character in the game.

But the truth is that there is plenty of blame to go around to everyone. To the Matous for being so cruel. To Sakura for finally accepting Angra Mainyu and her bitterness and anger at the world, and then killing people. To Rin for not noticing her sister's silent pain. I can go on and on. But that's what makes the whole story tragic.

Heaven's Feel is a tragedy. It is not a happy story. Everything that is happening, you'll be screaming "No! No! No! It shouldn't have happened! That shouldn't be happening like that! If only Event X hadn't happened in the past to cause this!"

But even through the tragedy, people are trying hard. Sakura, Shirou, and Rin are all struggling with themselves and their love and concern for the people important to them. And while the story itself is a tragedy, the ending is not. It's a real ending. They are rewarded for their sacrifices and struggles, and can find happiness, but are not completely free of guilt and must live with it to atone. So its a good ending. That's why I like Heaven's Feel. It was thoroughly enjoyable. It's the best route.

>>1604262
lol wuut. So basically, Sakura has to be condemned as well because she was the object of his jealousy? This is ridiculous beyond words.

The story made it clear that Sakura was forced in this mess and was certainly not trying and not willing to take Shinji's place (proved by the Command spells turned into books).

Shinji couldn't get over the fact he has no talent whatsoever. Instead of swallow it like a man, he just goes all frustrated by his own weaknesses and others' talents.
This is understandable, but what is not normal nor good is the fact that he is actually rejecting the faults to others and take over them instead of using his own means and abilities to fix/contourn the problem (or accept the inability to fix that).
And if you add the fact he was raping her and so on, despite he KNOWS she is a mere tool being completely breaking apart mentally and physically, it is just plainly unforgivable.

>>1604267

Then this goes back to their roots where Sakura pitied Shinji and it only helped in turning him into the person he is.

The fact is, Sakura and the Makiri family are responsible for Shinji because they turned him into that person.No love, no care, no support.

Shinji's only a human who couldn't deal with having no one that cared about him.

Had Sakura actually cared about Shinji when they were younger he probably would've been different. Even though she was an outsider.

He's only human. It's the same with Sakura.

They're both human they didn't deserve any of the pain during their childhoods.

>>1604267
No right to affect others?

How can you live without affecting others? Any decision you're going to make is going to affect other people. In fact, every inaction can even affect others.

>>1604257
I didn't say "ego." I said "character." You have to define yourself by yourself, not by others. This also means being honest about your own qualities and seeking to understand your short-comings.

People assume that strong people are somehow just magically strong. They aren't. They've isolated their own weaknesses, and killed them or compensated for them. They're sure of themselves because they know their own limits. They've acquired experiences that give them concrete character.

This is why you can tell the difference between someone who has self-confidence and someone who is just faking it.

You're mistaking "self love" for "self delusion." Self love is about being able to be confident with who you are, happy to be alive, and looking forward to growing as a person, while not being willing to sell yourself or your interests short for anyone. You act solely for yourself in this world, but also realize that creatively interacting with other people will get you many things.

A self deluding person thinks they're the best without actually having the inner strength or abilities to back it up. They go through life convinced of their own importance without actually acting the role. They think they're important, but just use others without actually thinking about long-term benefits to themselves. They end up destroying themselves because they can't control their own self-interests, and usually end up slaves to their own vices and emotions.

>>1604282
A rational person places his own interests before any other person's interests, but that doesn't mean that he can't find his happiness by working with others. He just has the choice of whether he wants to or not, and how and who he wants to associate with.

Humans can build wonderful things because they're selfish creatures that are rational enough to realize that 10 hands working in unison can construct more and quicker than 2 hands alone can do. They are also intelligent enough to realize when 4 out of those 10 hands are a detriment to the project and disassociate themselves from them.

>>1604266
I would suggest that he is not listing two "basic" instincts. Basic ones are natural ones. Fear of death is an animalistic instinct. All creatures fear it equally. The desire for power is a human instinct, though, when it's not a sexual desire. Material and societal power has evolved beyond merely animal concerns.

With this rise, I also state that the desire for our own destruction is a human instinct that is very alien to animals, too. Only humans would, when confronted with logic they cannot deny, continue running to their own death willingly and gleefully.

>>1604273

Sakura is condemned for the fact she didn't appreciate the people who loved her.

Shinji is condemned for the fact he treated people like crap.

It's not Shinji's fault he had no talent. He was only a child. Everyone is unique in some way, Shinji wasn't.
Shinji had no means to get over it. He was alone. Not every human can be alone and deal with that. Shinji was someone who had no one to support him through his life.

It wasn't jealousy that made Shinji to do what he did but hatred. Hatred for the Makiri.

>>1604281
What I mean is that you have no inherent entitlement to do anything to anyone. Of course you will affect others but you should consider how your actions will affect people. I.e. you don't have the right to hurt someone else.

>>1604302

If we all did that then this world would suck more than it already does.

>>1604273
Yes, because guess what, as soon as she got power she tried to kill/torture Rin. Want to take a guess why? That's right! She. Was. Jealous. Hell, she actually does it in one of the BAD ENDS.

>>1604282
Thanks, that answer put what you meant into context for me.

The kind of personality I was largely referring to was someone as you describe in your last paragraph, and I've witnessed someone like that go through the motions of such self-deception recently.

>>1604313

Thanks to Shiro letting Saber live.

Fuck I hate HF Shiro.

>>1604292

Okay, I'm getting tired of hearing that.

I'm going to ask you a few questions. You say Sakura didn't appreciate the people who loved her. She hadn't met Shirou yet. Her real father died in the Grail War. Her sister Rin was separated from her and wasn't allowed to see her even if she wanted to because of the pact between the two families. So at the time she was being abused, who was there to love her? Are you implying that the Matous loved Sakura? If so, I would like you to explain clearly just how torturing her with the worms to change her into a disposable Holy Grail, and brutally raping her to take out frustrations about not being special equate to love. She had nobody and nothing. She was truly alone. Shinji had friends at school, and he was even friends with Shirou during his childhood. If he wanted to, he could have led a normal life. Sakura never had a choice and was kept in that graveyard pit of a room.

Without Angra Mainyu's influence, she was still able to accept that her life sucked and that others could be happy. She was only selfish in one thing, and that was when she decided to find happiness by being near Shirou, even if she could never act on her love for him for fear of damaging her fragile happiness. She never did anything wrong. She appreciated those people, and she even admits that she knew that Rin cared about her (before Angra Mainyu finally transforms her into Dark Sakura) and that's why she calls Rin "Nee-san." She appreciated the people who loved her. The few who did.

>>1604309
Really? I don't see it that way. After having both treated people badly, living without considering anyone else as well as being treated badly I've come to live like that and I consider myself a good person, worse that many but better than most. If I don't think about it then I can come across as unemotional or cold at times but based on my experiences and observing people I don't think keeping that rule in mind is a bad thing.

>>1604325

,,,She didn't appreciate the people who loved in the events of FSN.

Jesus. If she did she would've let the past go and just lived in the happiness.

If she appreciated Rin she wouldn't have used Rin as one of the reasons she became the way she did.And what basement of a room?

Did you even see her room? It looked like a regular room to me.

>>1604333

If we considered other people's feelings nothing would get done.

There's always a small or large group who will disapprove of what you think.

>>1604344
I believe it's clearly mentioned that the room isn't where she spent her time

>>1604367

She had a room. She had to use it at some point. She didn't spend most of her time in her room but she still used it.

>>1604376
She slept in the basement getting molested by penis worms.

Every day.

I was always misunderstood Anonymous. No one ever appreciated my artistic talent. I had to show the world how much I was worth.

You'll forgive me, right Anonymous?

From the awesome Kotomine to Sakura.Well what the hell ?

>>1604344

... Did you even play through Heaven's Feel? It says that she didn't live in her room and that it was there for appearances. It said that she spent most of her time being trained in the green pit room with the worms. And Shinji grew jealous because he wasn't told about the room and found it by accident and saw Zouken torturing her in it. But he saw it as a sign of Zouken's approval for Sakura over him, and hated her for it. That's the room.

Now, as far as her "not appreciating" it during the events of F/SN and she should have just done nothing and kept the happiness she held on to before... I'm sorry but that seems kind of hard to do when you have Angra Mainyu breathing down your back and your beloved Senpai keeps getting hurt and you're going to die but you don't want to worry him so you try to hide it, but he finds out anyway and the relationship escalates even though you tried to keep it the way it was because you were scared of hurting him.

Basically that last rant was to point out to you that you are condemning her for not appreciating her little happiness by keeping it the way it was. But she TRIED to keep it the way it was, even though she was in a SERIOUS situation, she didn't want to ruin it. But when Shirou found out, she couldn't keep his determined self from trying to help her with everything he had.

>>1604382

K.

>>1604325
>before Angra Mainyu finally transforms her into Dark Sakura.
Did you miss the part where the game tells you that the reason that she was so cruel was because she had Darkness in her heart before Angra Mainyu came in?

>>1604397

I forgot. Jesus. What more do you want?

>>1604403
She always resented people, even before the shadow even entered her (because of what she suffered).
It's possible that she would snap eitherwise.
Now that you have a Shadow that both enhances your dark emotions and enough power to seemingly do whatever you want, guess the result.

>>1604403
>she had Darkness in her heart

Like any other human being.

Even though Sakura got through so much shit, I can't help but dislike her romance with Shirou. Maybe their interaction felt forced, or I just plainly don't like her.

I am very, very curious as to how Shinji could turn in in one of the UBW end (lets say True end).

Could it be possible that being saved from the Grail slapped some sense in him ?

>>1604403
Everyone has "darkness" in their heart.
Little or much most people keep it inside and don't act on it, which she did until Angra Manyu removed her inhibitions. I'd be a pretty damn awful monster if I acted on all the bad things I've ever thought of. There'd be lakes of blood and shit (well I'd get gunned down before long I suppose but it's the thought that matters).

She had a huge lot of suppressed rage inside. That doesn't make her a bad person in itself but it did make her an excellent host for Angra Manyu, which wasn't really her fault.

So as the thread has gone on, the things people are criticizing Sakura for have been reduced down to one fault:

She complains in the end about her situation.

You are all heartless bastards if you believe that she isn't entitled to complain for all that happened to her. Can you even imagine what that would be like? You try to say that she's evil, because she finally takes revenge on the people who tortured her for no reason. That logic is completely silly, so there's no need to counter it when its been countered several times already. Its the complaining that you are resorting to now. She complains and blames Rin for some of it. But Rin is partly at fault. For never coming to help her sister, never talking to her, even at school. Rin was all about "being a proper Magus" before caring for her own sister. Even though she secretly cared, and the normal Sakura realized this and admits it, it surely doesn't seem that way to Dark Sakura, who is crazed and blinded by Angra Mainyu's evil anyway. It's easy to see how Rin could have made a difference, and that means that Sakura can complain about that too. Why not? Of all the characters in Fate/Stay Night, Matou Sakura is the one who has the most right to complain, be angry, and pity herself. She is amazingly strong for enduring her pain for so long. Her self-pity only comes out after she meets Shirou and experiences a fragile happiness for the first time. A happiness that became threatened by the Grail War.

WUTS GOING UN HERE

AUTOSAGE WOOOT

>>1604503
>>1604506

Bump

>>1604292
hahaha owow, GTFO with your Shinji badass faggotry
Shinji believed almost his whole life that he was special, and with that in mind he constantly looked down upon everyone else, though in realtiy he knew he couldn't use magic, that he was an inferior being as a magus but hid that fact under his mask of arrogance. He's the prototype of a narcist.
His psyche broke steadily down in the course of events when his supposedly personal slave Sakura, his rival friend Shirou and his affection Rin turned against him.
Sure, the first time his mind was shattered, was when he discovered that Sakura got selected as succesor of the Matou family.

He's a gigantic faggot. He had everyhtig but never appreciated it and lost it all through his own selfish actions.

>>1604490
>She complains and blames Rin for some of it. But Rin is partly at fault. For never coming to help her sister, never talking to her, even at school.
It's Sakura's fault because she didn't ask for help, even when there is a perfect chance for salvation.

>>1604592
Perfect chance, right.
Rin would kick the crap out of Shinji and he would take it out on Sakura.
Rin had never saved her before but some loose talk when they run into eachother at school is a perfect chance for survival?
You best be joking nigger.

>>1604615
*salvation

>>1604592

No, its not ... Rin ignored Sakura and that her part of Sakura situation.

You are blaming someone that died of thirst from not asking for a glass of water, Sakura wanted to be saved but feared asking for help ... Rin blame is from not noticing Sakura until it was almost too late.

>>1604403
EVERY HUMAN HAS DARKNESS IN HIS HEART.
Sakura felt abandoned by her real family and was abused by the Matou's. She closed her heart to live through the pain, but was afraid of killing herself.
Then she met Shirou and he quickly became affected to him. She was glad just being close by him and afraid of rejection because of her shameful existence. That was why she didn't want to cross the line in her relation to Shirou, though she had dreamed of a possibility of salvation

Sakura=winner
Sakura=love
/thread

OUR SWEETHEART

>>1604805

No Rin is love

>>1604884
Can they both be love?

>>1603621

QFT