/jp/ - Otaku Culture

excluding the pre-windows ones, that is

MoF

>>15641105
why

what a coincidence that I started to play it today, haven't gotten much far though

hopeless masquerade

>>15641080
LoLK by a mile.

>>15641093
Are you implying that pre-windows games are forguettable?
I'm dissapointed in you.

Anyways, i would say HM is the only truly mediocre game in the whole series.

PoFV is the least enjoyable to me gameplay-wise

I didnt like the idea of ISC, I didnt like ISC.
Why combine danmaku with a puzzle?

UFO

TD

For non mainline, HM.
For Mainline, I would honestly say MoF or UFO.

>>15641080
Hopeless Masquerade by far.

It was released in a horrendously buggy and unplayable state, that was clearly unfinished and full of crashes, unstable frame rates, and ridiculously awful netplay. Even if you're one of the crazies who thought the gameplay was actually good, there's no way you can excuse the awful state it was released in.

>>15641080
Excluding the last two fighting games which were both awful memefests?

LOLK for having normal mode being an afterthought and having mechanics which makes the UFOs seem like a good idea?

Yea that's the worst one.

>>15641715
The Day 0 Patch made it crash even MORE as it made the final boss not the instacrash situation but Koishi instantly crash the game. And you fight Koishi on most if not all routes.

Later attempts to "balance" the game could be summed up as "X is a little too good. NERF IT TO USELESSNESS".

Then you get the utterly cringe worthy and out of left field supers. Nitori is flat out ripping off Brawl and Koishi's just completely unrelated to her character (LOL ROSES) which ties more towards a fucking creepy pasta than anything thematically right for her.

>>15641093
Wow, go fuck yourself with a rake. The obvious answer is SoEW, but people always want to excuse it because it was the first real shmup of the series.

>>15641686
>MoF or UFO
Huh?

========
Excusing the fighting games:
>Worst
Ten Desires by far for me, though LOLK could definately be the worst for others. Both trip up on the gaming mechanics in more fundamental way than the other games.

>Most forgettable
Ten Desires by far. In the doujin scene, TD songs and characters are either unpopular or simply rare, with a few exceptions. This was true even shortly after its release.

>>15641724
Eh TD's mechanic is pretty bad but at least you get decent amounts of resources even if only having death trances.

LOLK gives you just no resources and the overfocus on grazing just makes the game Ugly as they have to flood the screen with just overly stacked bullets.

At least with Great Fairy Wars it was usually just doing thin bullet streams as the Freeze Chain had a bit more of a liberal hitbox to keep the chain going so you could have a bit more spacing for kunai shots thus making it less just wall of GIANT WHITE BULLETS

>>15641744
>LOLK gives you just no resources and the overfocus on grazing just makes the game Ugly as they have to flood the screen with just overly stacked bullets.

I think it is much, much worse if you try to play on Legacy Mode. I preferred Pointdevice Mode from the start, and I found the process of "grinding through patterns" to be much less frustrating than it was on SA or UFO. Though the inelegance of the bullets was not a good design mechanic, IMHO.


But anyway, both of them are miles better than SoEW, though I think LLS and MS were better games for their particular style.

>>15641720
Koishi has rose-themed spell cards dude.

>>15641720
The Komeijis indeed has rose theme. I couldn't think better moveset that would fit Koishi better.
Ripping off in fighting games are common and Touhou has been a bit less subtle about it (Sakuya obviously has Dio rip-off moveset, Utsuho being almost entirely Souther rip-off, Reimu's Fantasy Heaven is another HnK reference, etc)

HM is terrible for reasons but these aren't among them.
It's due to HM being experimental game since it was their first time to implement such mechanic and quality graphic, not to mention they made it from scratch.

>>15641720

Do you even know who Koishi really is??

>>15641758
Legacy mode is just awful. No Bomb drops EVER. Only way to get more bombs is to die.

Hell you get no resources at all unless you go for the gimmick and even then you often will NOT have enough bullets to get a life fragment. You get more 1UPs from drops in fucking EOSD and that's because most of the 1ups were from scoring!

It's pretty obvious that Zun included it purely as an afterthought as he knew if he didn't have it people would be pissed.

Of course the "Intended way" he wanted to play it was pretty much "Congratulations! You just depowered your character" end.

At least Subterranean Animism had one of the better soundtracks. LOLK's soundtrack you had to often go through it multiple loops and hearing it that way was painful. I'd argue that LOLK may have an actually BAD soundtrack. DDC's soundtrack was utterly forgettable but LOLK his bad.


Oh PC-98 I just utterly ignore in this discussion as the system was so damn limited he had to work with what he had.

And SoEW being bad is pretty much the entire First Game of a series problem. I mean look at fucking Megaman 1 compared to Megaman 2.

SoEW: weak.
TD: forgettable
LoLK: probably, it's different.

I also don't enjoy that much IaMP. I mean, its gameplay. Awkward commands/actions. I want to play it but is tough. And I do enjoy the fighting games. Ashame, since I praise everything else that it offers

>>15641794
>DDC's soundtrack was utterly forgettable

>>15641803
IaMP's control scheme is pretty horrible. It's definitely not a bad fighter but it's really overrated, just like lots of old fighting games.

>>15641794

>DDC's soundtrack was utterly forgettable
Yeah right, totally forgettable

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioQLlX2ELbg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESskWAb-gto
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DwN8eqUArQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdjkkTr4c2k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ICZ0AAgDuA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYcb854qGx0

So forgettable

LoLK and HM are just total messes but if we're talking most forgettable then that'd be DDC.

>>15641998

PoFV is the least enjoyable.

>>15641998
How could you forget inverted control and big sprite?

>>15641724
>Strong character gimmicks
>Playable Youmu
>Accessible difficulty
>Futo
>Mamizou

fuck yerself if you think TD was a bad game

>>15642035
Those two (especially not big sprite) don't make up for the total blur that was stages 1-4 and EX.

>>15642086
bad b8

>>15641080
HM and HM 2. those games are like secondaries magnets.

MoF because fucking sluts and their annoying fanbase.

and I'm not even talking about Sanae.

>>15641794
>DDC's soundtrack was utterly forgettable
That's incorrect, and UFO has the worst soundtrack.

>>15642249
>UFO has the worst soundtrack

That's so, so very wrong. It's one of the most interesting soundtracks

>>15642269
Only the stage 4 theme is good.

>>15642243
>HM and ULiL are secondary magnets

How?

>>15642277
Normies can't Danmaku and leg-tube girls.

but they can steam and meme 2hus in a fighting game.

>>15642274

Nah, not really. There's more than where that from.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMEEFzZ3ILI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oayu297xrns
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aca3f9OYcXs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMXaJvxGAxo

...and the other ones have charns. They are good

>>15642319
You're just paranoid and that has nothing to do with quality.
ZUN/Tasofro doesn't care about cancer on the west.

>>15641080
Just a personal opinion based upon my game play but UFO is the one that I feel most cluttered and crowded in by and as a result I am having to look out for too much and consequently it is my worst playing experience of them all.

What about the Windows game that has the worst OST?

My vote goes for TD.

> DDC's soundtrack was utterly forgettable
Some songs were, but the ones which I enjoyed the most are some of my favorites, with "Kobito of the Shining Needle" being my personal favorite Stage 6 boss theme. "Mist Lake" would be my favorite stage 1 theme, if not for:

>but LOLK his bad
LOLK's stage one and boss theme are personally my favorites.
Stage 2's theme is OK but a tad boring, but "September Pumpkin" is brilliant for the ambience.
Stage 3 is good overall, but none of my favorites.
I originally thought Stage 4 and the boss theme were mediocre, but they have really grown on me over time.
Stage 5 and Boss are probably my personal favorites.
Stage 6 theme is an awesome buildup, though the boss theme is a bit too over-the-top for my tastes.
Stage EX theme was probably my favorite, but the the Boss theme actually approached bad.

Touhou Yumejikuu, you probably never heard of it.

I'd say LoLK is probably a bit messy in the gameplay with cheap deaths and a few glitches when it first got released. That said, I think it has one of the most memorable cast and designs in recent Touhou games. The music can be a hit and miss though. I find the Stage themes completely overwhelmed the boss themes in the game. Stage 2,3 and 5 are some really neat tracks and stage 4 was pretty good too.

>>15643134

That game is my favourite D:

>>15641720
Have you even seen Koishi's fight in SA?

If we're gonna talk music, PCB has one of the least memorable soundtracks. Not saying all the songs are bad, but it's pretty lackluster in comparison to its windows peers.

>>15641803
I agree on IaMP, I don't know how anyone enjoys that game. Maybe I'm too used to other anime fighters but that control scheme is unforgivable.

>>15643399
Actually, scratch that. There are barely any songs I like 100% on IN's OST. PCB is a close second though.

>>15643399
Are you seriosuly saying that the game that has Doll Judgment, Ghostly Band, Hiroari, Bloom Nobly, and Necrofantasia has unmemorable music?

>>15643417
Agreed on Doll Judgement, it's a great song. However as ZUN keeps expanding his game OST repertory, some songs tend to fall behind. That is the case for me as far as PCB goes.

I'd say Highly Responsive to Prayers. I can at least find some enjoyement in SoEW, but I really don't like Arkanoid-like games. But at least the music is good.

For windows era, TD is the only one I don't consider great, but it's not actually bad. It has a few great songs, but suffers from having many just decent ones.

>>15641080
UFO, for me. The cast was kind of lame, the music was only so-so relatively, and the UFO mechanic is just not fun.

>>15641720
Everything about this post is either bad, wrong, stupid, or all three at once.

>>15643441
I can understand that. PCB makes me really nostalgic so I tend to overrate it.

>>15643407
Do opinions get this bad?

> Deaf to All But the Song
>Maiden's Cappricio
>Love Colored Master Spark
>Invisible Full Moon
>History of the Moon
>Flight of the Bamboo Cutter
>Hourai Victim
>Reach for the Moon, Immortal Smoke

>>15642035
That's memorable for the wrong reasons.

It's like being remembered for shitting yourself in public. Not something to be proud of.

I wonder if I should try the music sorter.

>>15644866
It exist? Where?

>>15644901
http://tohosort.comoj.com/song/
may take 4000 battles

TD is pretty forgettable for me in almost every regard although I like Futo.

>>15643889
I would include Retribution for the Eternal Night, Cinderella Cage, and Voyage 1969 with those, but I just love IN's soundtrack in general.

>>15643417
I honestly find PCB's ost to be rather unremarkable until the Primsriver Sisters, at which point it becomes fantastic all the way through Necrofantasia.

>>15643889
Baka, you forgetting best level theme: Illusionary Night ~ Ghostly Eyes, and, also, Song of the Night Sparrow ~ Night Bird better than that overrated Deaf to All But the Sibg

..Righ I see, those are the most popular songs.. funnily enough, I do not enjoy them that much!

>>15641080
I don't know. but the word touhou puts me on fucking lifetilt.

>>15641080
Hisouten

>>15641080
Of Windows?

Ten Desires or Mountain of Faith.

However UFO is my least favorite. Also, I like TD and MoF

>>15641080
LoLK

>>15641242
Most people don't bother with them, man

>>15641412
That isn't really what ISC is about.

It's about having fun getting through weird danmaku. There's a bunch of different ways to get through every single one.

More fun for players who aren't experts, I bet.

>>15641720
>Yea that's the worst one.
Nah, LoLK is fine, even rather good.

>I hate different things

>>15646613
The game might as well be a spinoff given how much it forced its gimmick.

>>15641803
I started to enjoy IaMP by the end of my time with it, but only after dramatically alerting the control defaults and researching it. I didn't like it on the whole

>>15643110
I guess TD, but it's not as if I dislike its OST

>>15643889
IN's OST is seriously one of the best. Dunno how anyone could think different

>>15646622
Could say the same about PoFV and PoDD. Actually, could say worse

It's not that different and even if it is, whatever. ZUN likes different

>>15646693
Are you seriously defending it by comparing to multiplayer focused games?

>>15646711
It's different.

Your argument was about difference, not mine, you baby

>>15646742
>Your argument was about difference
It wasn't, learn to read before you reply to me again.

>>15646768
>The game might as well be a spinoff given how much it forced its gimmick.
Dumb or don't know that means "different" (AKA like the spin offs)?

>>15646796
I said that it force its gimmick way too much, I never even mentioned the word different.
Stop being so butthurt.

>>15643889
If by 'this' you mean your own post, then yes.

>>15646808
That means different, buddy boy. No need to feel aggravated.

>>15646852
Why are you so mad?

>>15646857
I'm not?

Well, whatevs,

>>15641080
I think a majority of people would say UFO.

>>15647343
>ctrl + f UFO
>13 matches
>ctrl + f TD
>12 matches
>ctrl + LoLK
>16 matches

Oeople actually dislike MoF?

People actually dislike MoF?

>>15641080
Gameplay and polish wise it's EoSD no doubt.
I still love it but it clearly shows how it's the oldest windows game.

>>15643399
>>15643407
Wow, I could almost call those posts contrarian.

>>15641724
TD still has the best extra theme in my opinion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-o4Lvaol5Qo&list=PLD-sHqfDWqLPk7PLc7d7-WyaFFe6R0Ux5&index=20

>>15643222
You're right. Touhou games have never had glitches before LoLK.

I've had a blast with most windows mainline games, except UFO and TD. Not sure which one I'd rank lower, gameplay-wise I really dislike the UFO mechanic much more than the spirits in TD, but music/cast wise I'd rank UFO ever so slightly above.

>>15648523
I don't dislike it but I don't care much about it or anything.

Nice music, though

TD was the least memorable, but I disliked the UFO powerup system the most.

>>15651043
Looks like Sanae got trapped by common sense.

>>15641080
Worst:
Legacy of Gimmick Kingdom
Most forgettable:
That game before DDC and after UFO, I always have to look up the name for that one.

The first one.
Next question.

>people badmouthing LoLK

Bunch of shitters

>>15659428
LoLK suffers from the newest game in the series syndrome and gets shat on as a result.
It's always been like that

>>15659461
its not my favorite by far, but god damn, the "I don't like it, therefor is shit" mentality should stay in /v/

personaly I dislike EoED because I think that it is clunky in some aspects including the music (the trumpets are are bit ear drilling, very noticeable in the very first theme of stage 1) but its all comprehensible, being the first windows game developed for a now obsolete hardware, but even with that I would be a retard if I dared to say it is a bad touhou game

TD or the newer fighting games.
Boring.

14 had pretty catchy music and likable characters; 7 had some of the greatest music in the series and had mostly likable characters; 8 was easy until you tried to do Yuyuko's last word without using focus with Marisa and had awesome music; 12 is my favorite along 11 because of the music, theme, Unzan, and introducing CURVED LASERS.

>>15659556
>8 was easy
never understood why people say this, I find 7 easier than 8

>>15642243
>HM and HM 2. those games are like secondaries magnets.
Uh huh, and the game that literally has the whole EoSD cast bar two people isn't, right?

Go fuck yourself.

>>15659556
>or the newer fighting games.
Go back to your secondary magnet.

>>15659569
>the game that literally has the whole EoSD cast bar two people isn't
which one is it?

>>15659567
Personal opinion in my case. It was my first Touhou and had a forgivable learning curve, compared to 7's cutthroat difficulty curve above normal.
The Prism sisters still give me PSTD from my lunatic run. Oddly enough, Youmu's final attack in stage 5 got easier the higher the difficulty.

>>15659583
>from my lunatic run
it might be that I have only played on normal mode in all games (and easy on occasions)

The prism sisters are hard, but what still gives me nightmares is fucking reimu from IN. Also you don't know how many deaths I had at reisen until I got it right, but its expected from a stage 5 boss

>>15659595
I found Reimu piss easy in IN.
Marisa is the nightmare inducer.
Astroid belt on Lun was just plain evil.

>>15659604
hilariously enough its the opposite for me, Reimu is the bane of my existance and one day when I played with the reimu team to switch from maining sakuya/remi for a change of pace I found myself beating marisa on my first try and wishing that sakuya's route could have her as a boss instead
although I might have just been lucky, and once again on normal mode

>>15659630
My only issue with Reimu is how she doesn't sit still. Other yhan that I was beating her lunatic spells before beating normal mode.

>>15646024
>Those horrible, eye blinding stages and attacks
>Clunky and awkward as fuck card system
>Horrendously disruptive weather system that's a ludicrous pain to control
>Fighting Tenshi in single player 3 million times

Thanks for reminding me of how awful SWR was. Story mode was great since it just had so much content but multiplayer in that game was just bad. I'm glad they fixed most of the problems in Soku though.

>>15659569
>Complaining about an old game only having older characters

>>15652043
I can't believe there's still people who complain about gimmicks in a game where the main setting is girls expressing themselves through gimmicky attacks.

>>15660146
I'm not complaining about soku having older character. I'm just telling the guy he's a fucking idiot. EoSD's cast is the biggest secondary magnet of them all and lo and behold, soku contains almost all of them, and alongside some other secondary trash like Okuu too.

To call HM and ULiL "secondary magnets" is just plain lunacy.

>>15645052
>I honestly find PCB's ost to be rather unremarkable until the Primsriver Sisters, at which point it becomes fantastic all the way through Necrofantasia.
Why do people always rate Diao Ye Zong so low? I love it.

>>15648528
It's actually really solid though. Yes, it doesn't have some of the quality of life improvements of later games (stage replay, quick restart, etc) but the actual bullet patterns themselves are among the best in the series in terms of being fun to dodge. Patchouli has some really crazy fun spell-cards like Emerald Megalith and Sylphae Horn, and Remilia has one of the best one-two combos of any final boss in Scarlet Meister -> Scarlet Gensokyo. There's just a lot of fun random dodging in EoSD without the game getting bogged down in excessive micrododging.

>>15649967
Hey, anyone's entitled to second thoughts. Cut me some slack.

>>15659487
>personaly I dislike EoED because I think that it is clunky in some aspects including the music (the trumpets are are bit ear drilling, very noticeable in the very first theme of stage 1)
I think original Septette is actually really good if you give it a listen. The piano is actually really nice.

>>15661095
>>15659487
Listen to the original MIDI renders (Not Windows MIDI soundfont shit, but an actual SC-88Pro)

I like the original MIDI more for these in particular:
https://my.mixtape.moe/hbjxjv.aac
https://my.mixtape.moe/fgxfqe.aac
https://my.mixtape.moe/efcpxj.aac

https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,18989.0.html

>>15660463
Soku's cast includes the characters from the older fighting games, which just so happens to include IaMP, which only had Touhou 6 and 7 to work with out of the windows games. That's a perfectly good reason to have lots of characters from Touhou 6. It doesn't even include Flandre, who is by far the biggest secondary magnet.

>alongside some other secondary trash like Okuu too

So it's basically just your opinion then. Okuu is secondary trash but Koishi, who the popularity polls revealed as extremely popular is totally fine fight?

>>15660140
I had none of these problems.

The hardest the fighting games ever got for me was IaMP's final final boss, Reimu, who is "fuck you, die" at the end. She was the only character who nearly game over'd me on EASY. All it takes is her hitting you ONCE and you're caught in bullet hell.

SWR I beat entirely on normal, no problem.

I don't get why you're complaining about the weather. I didn't even notice it. Tenshi only gave me trouble when playing as Alice because fuck "weird" fighting characters.

>>15666989
Have you tried playing online?

>>15667003
nope

Though, what, would that just change how weather works? The game still plays the same

>>15667022
If you play againts other player they will most likely take advantage of the weather, and you will notice the terror of Typhoon, River Mist, Sunshower, Moonson, etc especially in tight match, and you'll begin to complain some character get disadvantaged by some weather, like Aya almost can't do shit during Typhoon, and worse, weather comes randomly after one finished.

>>15667058
that seems like objectively bad design

>>15667073
It's not that bad, though. Not every weather gives you unfair match with certain character. Probably it's just Typhoon and River Mist and it isn't totally ass-wrecking.

I'm not saying it's good mechanic either, but if you're not total competitive autist and enjoying the mechanic, you can still have fun with it.
Personally, I think it's balanced for the most part.

>>15665707
Grandfather's clause my ass, I don't care why they were there, but they were there and you can't argue against that.

>Okuu is secondary trash but Koishi, who the popularity polls revealed as extremely popular is totally fine fight?
Hey, I'll take 1 (one) big-sized secondary magnet over however many (debatably) medium-sized secondary magnets soku had.

>>15667073

Duh so disadvantages, weak points and stuff is bad design? geez why deny the challenges, things that make a game a fricking game? goddammit that's the fucking joke

>>15668120
Please don't curse.

>>15667114
What's being "autist"?

>>15668155
sigh.. ok. But it's ridiculous, that's the point/justification of the words

>>15668120
I was under the impression it was random from what I read.

Which would in fact be rather bad, random "your character sucks now effects"

>>15669168
Nah, as you know it the weather affect the field and both players, so the challenge is for both players to handle the given situation whether to use the advantage or to escape the disadvantage. It's not like the weather give one player instawin weapon or ass-wrecking advantage, except arguably 1-2 weathers, unfortunately.

>>15666989
In story mode weather doesn't actually do anything if I remember correctly. It only occurs in versus mode.

>>15669168
You can control the weather to some extent so you can avoid really bad weathers or try to force ones that give you an advantage over your opponent.

I liked the weather system in 10 and such. The one where chatacters didn't react to being hit was awesome as hell when playing Tenshi.