/jp/ - Otaku Culture

>>12998758
Because "A fool and his money are soon parted". And so long as idiots keep throwing money at them, it will keep happening.

Indiegogo does not give back any money. They knew this.

>>12998758
This video is painful to watch

>>12998758
Who cares anymore as long they don't break any rules.
It's no big news that western projects are shit.

>>12998758
>Those Youtube comments

It's like they haven't learned anything

>>12998931
> I feel bad for FSS right now, they have so much trouble just using certain characters, if it was Sonic or Mario characters they were using, non of this would have happened.

>It seems a lot of the confusion and problems came from ZUN and the people most associated with Touhou (certain company heads, CEO's and whatnot) for not talking to the western developers.

Wow

Anyone actually managed to watch their entire video?

Even though my volume and the video's volume are at max I can't hear a word he's saying.

Is it just him being greedy and not understanding copyright laws and crying about it?

So what happened exactly? Is this that Touhou smash brothers thing?

>>12998758
>MotK has shown to have no problem deleting or altering public posts as they see fit. It is likely that soon after this video is uploaded, the MotK links below may be deleted or altered. You can see the original Video recordings of the motK threads mentioned at the time of the video's upload as a zip file download at the bottom.

Oh boy.

>>12999016
>Warning, this video may be fast, click here for a slow-mo version. (WILL BE UP SOON)

kek

>>12999043
God, imagine how long the slow version's gonna be. I hope no one will sit through all that.

>>12998958
>the people most associated with Touhou (certain company heads, CEO's and whatnot)

Holy shit how can someone be this uninformed

I only watched that last part that he said is important for 2hu and I'm amazed at the kind of research that went into that. Now that ZUN is confirmed for being a money grubbing sellout, hopefully we'll get a 2hu anime soon.

>>12998958
>if it was Sonic or Mario characters they were using, non of this would have happened.
( ﾟ∀ﾟ)ｱﾊﾊ八八ﾉヽﾉヽﾉヽﾉ ＼ / ＼/ ＼

>>12998787
>Indiegogo does not give back any money.

Wait, is that really true?

>>12999240
Yeah. Indiegogo is kinda bad.

>>12999240
Yep. It is what I have been telling these people from the start. That these guys would still get their money even if ZUN himself raised a complaint.

If you see "Indiegogo", you can bet your ass that it is most likely a scam. At least Kickstarter has enough decency to return the money.

Christ.

>>12999288
>That these guys would still get their money even if ZUN himself raised a complaint.

ZUN shut it down with a copyright claim forcing FSS and IGG to refund.
If it wasn't for that, they would have kept everything even if it was "cancelled".

Maybe if it didn't look like shit they would've had no problem with it

>>12998758
You can't stop them from existing, but MotK has permabanned them for spamming, slander and doxxing.
https://www.shrinemaiden.org/2015/02/04/on-a-certain-fangame-project-by-a-certain-developer/

>>12998800
>This video is painful to watch
Someone summarize it? Because a full half-hour of FSS would be hard to watch even back when they could pass as sane.

>>12999035
>Video recordings of threads
For what purpose

>>12999404
>We were wrong, but they should update ZUN guidelines
>It wasn't our fault!!!!
>ZUN owns Kourindou, a black company that has stocks
>Ruw works with ZUN in his black company
>Motk are a bunch of censorship bullies
>Touhou isn't doujin cause of black company and the Sony deal.

>>12999404
>permaban them from existing
Where's some hard, pipe-hitting niggers when you need them?

>>12999454
What about the dox thing?

>>12999454
Holy shit.

Who is Fumio Oyamada?

>What an entertaining and informative watch!

I hope this guy is being sarcastic. But knowing Youtube, probably not.

>>12999540
They apparently found out that Ruw is not only a close friend of ZUN but is actually someone that handles ZUNs legal business(Fumio who was handling the FSS IGG shitfest).
They say Ruw/Fumio berated them on twitter while ignoring the emails FSS sent him to clear up any assumptions.

>>12999599
There were no "assumptions" to clear up. Ten to one says these emails were just FSS trying to push their interpretation onto everyone else while sticking their fingers in their ears.

>>12999583
He really reminds me of a conspiracy schizo. All the multicolored text, shitty "evidence" pictures with random kinds of highlighting, long videos of mostly those things. He is clearly fucking delusional so there's that.

>>12999583
So they say that they never claimed having contact with ZUN before the crowdfunding campaign, and now complain that the wiki said otherwise.

Is this true though? And even if what FSS said is true, does this even mean anything? They admitted that they started the crowdfunding before having any talk with ZUN.

Why the fuck do these guys keep making these long ass videos?
Don't they have better ways to communicate?
Vblogging is fucking cancer.

>>12999737
Suck ass

>>12999744
That sounds like a terrible way to communicate.

>>12999758
I m not literate as u huge dickster

>>12999737
They have their own website, so you would think that instead of posting videos of pictures of text they would just post the text.

>>12999817
You mean this cringe-inducing website?

http://fromsoysauce.com/

Who on earth would play this game now?
It doesn't have the 2hu characters that would attract western 2hu fans anymore.
It definitely won't attract smash fans because if smash fans are giving up Project M because of Nintendo intervention, why would they play something that is most likely a hundred times worse.

>Again, for the Umpteenth fucking time, someones digital business card IS NOT personal information. THINK before you accuse.

>Googling public WHOIS data is considered doxxing now.
Wow.
Just wow.

Also, who cares about some circjerk forum for autists (MotK)?

lol
Youtube is funnier than I thought

>>12999887
the 3rd to 5th lines should be green

>>12999864
>Nintendo intervention

What exactly can they do?

FSS has just proven themselves to be a big pile of shit.

But they managed to deal some damages, I think, by naming their shit game "Nansei Doujin Spirit"

This will keep haunting the Western fanbase for a while considering how they will keep making it and there will be idiots buying it anyways.

>>13000872
>But they managed to deal some damages

Yeah, ZUN has learned his lesson and will never allow the western fanbase to make a Touhou game ever again.

>>13000918
Good.

>>13000918
The verb you're looking for is "sell" not "make"

>>13000918
>western

you mean America?

>>13000952
But Japanese sell doujin works just fine. Just because they don't expect to make much, or any money doesn't mean they're not being sold.

>>13000980
I think he meant 'non-Japanese'.

>>13000980
Hopefully. Don't want Zun thinking we foreigners are all idiots.

>>13001017
>But Japanese sell
Did you misunderstand?

>>13001041
Apparently.

Westerners can still make and sell Touhou games as long as they stay within ZUN's guideline and general doujin culture.

Nothing will change much for the Western fanbase. Unfortunately, Touhou and even the Japanese doujin culture in general are unnecessarily exposed to many other ignorant people that is connected with FSS. This goes together with FSS's misinformation and whining will make many people having the wrong idea about the whole thing, Touhou or Japanese doujin culture.

Well, it's not like the Japanese have ever cared about what foreigners think. But the name of their shitty game "NS Doujin Spirit" is still a fucking insult.

>>13001113
I think ZUN's guidelines are unnecessarily protectionist, due in large part to the language barrier. He's scared of Touhou leaving his control, that's why he doesn't want it being exposed to overseas markets on a large scale.

>>13001175
ZUN just ask people to respect these:

+ No commercialization
+ No exposure in places outside the community

I think that's fair. He already allows fan creations to be made and sold. Also, Touhou is his fucking creation, it's his right to have it within his control, which isn't even much since people are already making all sort of Touhou fan materials (some really fucked up ones too), so much that they dominates several Comikets anyways.

ZUN didn't say anything about this mess personally, did he?

If you are ZUN, would you be pissed?

>>13000918
> ZUN has learned his lesson and will never allow the western fanbase to make a Touhou game ever again.

The problem's not so much with ZUN as it is with the secondaries who are only seeing it from FSS's side...

>>13001113
I think this guy at MotK put it quite nicely here

>But then there's the fact that unknowing youtube viewers will inevitably get sucked into their lying bullshit and start thinking ZUN/doujin culture is xenophobic and deserves "what's coming to them" by breaking ZUN's guidelines, overtly pirating the games, or otherwise. It's especially sad that one (well, three) people who claim to love Touhou would set the WTC back so far in so little time.

The damage is that there will be idiots trying to make shitty Touhou rip-off and sell them without giving a fuck about guideline or copyright.

Imagine this, the same people that make those furry fanfics of other copyrights will now do it to Touhou too, thanks to the exposure.

I'm actually laughing at the MotKers who had the temerity to support this shitheel hanging their heads in shame in the article response thread.

Though at this point it barely has to do with a "Japan versus West" thing anymore, the real problem is that this guy is seriously fucking mentally ill. Helepolis tried to salvage something out of it but in the end his summary is pretty good:
>Heavy disapproval, didn't expect him to get so obsessive about his own failure. He needs professional help if you ask me.

>>13001352
The guy is seriously nutso. Who makes 3 hour videos ranting about conspiracy theories and then goes around wikipedia editing pages to try to forge evidence? He was seriously convinced there was some shadow member at TSA that truly ran the Touhou IP and that they were selling out and that's why his IGG scam was crushed. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Team_Shanghai_Alice))

Credibility: gone.
I'd say the lulz is strong with this one if this weren't such a sad case.

>>13001375
>IGG scam was crushed

But doesn't he get to keep the money? Or does the IGG keep the money and don't refund it to either them and donators?

>Westernes doing stupid shit again
No wonder why they call us baka gaijins.

Hey TheRockMouse are you here.

>>13001430
Maybe.

i'm hands down amazed by the butt hurt this man is emitting. he has to go and make a god damn conspiracy about zun personally going after him because he's too much of a bitch to accept that he fucked up/ had his scam revealed

>>13001411
When someone claims copyright to IGG they have to refund everything or else they can get sued.

>>13001417
Not all Westerners. Only these dumb fucks who wish to turn a profit?

Why is it so hard for some people to realize, ZUN doesn't want people making money off of Touhou without his permission/it going pass the Indie/Doujin market? What's so hard?

Then again these are literal butt hurt individuals who couldn't turn a profit. Hell if they really wanted to make a 2hu/SSBB game they would have done it for free despite the time/energy/no money in for them. Selfish son's of bitchs. The best thing about making a game ins't the money, it's the chance to make the game & know you had fun doing it (Almost like art/music/sports/etc.).

>>13001451
*past

considering there are western fan artists in the first place that raise to some popularity the whole argument about zun trying to restrict the western fan base kinda doesn't hold water
hell /jp/ has been around for years and didn't MOOT meet with ZUN once?

>>13001451
Because Westerners are not familiar with the doujin concept. For Westerners, if you sell something in person there's no difference from selling it en masse.

>>13001451
No, all westerners. Have you ever seen those fucking weird eastern european Simpsons porn comics? That's how japs see western works.

is it possible that nintendo could cut the cord on FSS's permission to release wiiu games?

i'm sure they wouldn't be pleased with their partnered devs trying to make a dime off someone else's property and then proceeding to create nutjob conspiracy theories against said person

>>13001512
It doesn't look like the wii-u dev thing is even half the big deal they make it out to be.

https://wiiu-developers.nintendo.com/
> No prior development experience is required. This program is for anyone interested in developing software for Wii U using either Unity or NWF.

It's not like they're "partners with Nintendo" so much as "a couple of dumb kids who filled in a publicly-available sign-up sheet".

>>13001525
oh wow lmao

he made it out like it was such a huge deal that he got accepted

you're right though, with games like meme run being on the eshop, it's no surprise

Why hasn't this incident been recorded at ED yet? This material looks like it's qualified to be written in the hall of shame.

>>13001542
ED hates touhou

>>13001546
But they have Touhou article that nobody updates.

>>13001550
they do? i thought touhou was just mixed in with the weaboo page

>>13001542
It is your and my responsibility to tell this story

>>13001447
I never got any confirmation from any backers if refunds were ever given, and IGG has a history of being scummy. I also know that at the time the funding campaign was cancelled many backers weren't really seeking any refunds, although I bet that sentiment has rapidly changed.

I sat out on the sidelines during most of this mess and really only stepped in to put my foot down when he went to loonyville and started doxxing and shit. I though at first it was a cute if possibly overambitious project, then I heard about all the fricken dramallama and was like whoa wtf. Helepolis is a goddammed hero for trying to listen and help that psycho out as much as he did.

>>13001560
I can't into 90000 skeletons. So you do it.

So this guy is doxxing nihonjins now? Why didn't he just stop when the indiegogo was taken down?

>>13001602
Because he's probably quite autistic and feels like he's the victim of a double standard.

>>13001611
Or a serious case of self-entitled butthurt.

>>13001611
>>13001624
Guys, guys, there's no need to argue. You're both right, and then some. :D

>>13001624
I'm more inclined to blame culture clash. Probably doesn't help that he's of Japanese descent.

>>13001631
No I'm right >:(

>>13001638
At first I was willing to believe that it could have been a simple misunderstanding. Doujin culture != Western indie culture. But then... He just refused to listen to mountains of people respectfully trying to tell him he was doing a dumb thing. Instead he chose to misrepresent the things people said to him or worse, lie about being given permission or being in contact with people. And when people started calling him out on that he went super conspiracy crazy.

Seriously tho of all the edits and forgeries of staff PMs he did this one made no sense. Like... what does changing "I trust" to "I believe" do...?

>>13001662
Oops, "I belive". Thanks autocorrect :P

I'm starting to think FSS may only consist of one person who genuinely has paranoid-schizophrenia. It would explain why the voices in his videos are edited to shit (to make himself appear as three different people), why he sees conspiracies everywhere, why he won't listen to any reason or logic contradicting his views, why he forges so many things to support his claims, and much more.

I feel sorry for him, in a way...

I mean, not enough to wish a thousand syphilitic camels would puke in his oatmeal, but still...

>>13001689
FSS claims that it was a project between him and his brother but:

1) He hijacks his "brother's" account (Shade_) to dodge a probation put on him for harassing people over the guidelines dispute.
2) ShinesBright shows up out of nowhere, claiming to be a classmate of FSS. Vehemently defends FSS while suspiciously posting in very similar writing and word choices as FSS, and with an ou.edu email and similar IPs...

Actually I just checked and what do you know? All three (Saijee/ShinesBright/Shade_) have been logged into from the same IP within several hours of each other today. :P

>>13001728
since saijee seems to acully be young i'm gonna give benefit of the doubt on his borther however shine is most likely a sock pupppt

>>13001759
Shines is most definitely a sockpuppet. The posting style was way too similar and they came out of left field to defend FSS. I can believe Shade_ truly was his brother, there was a definite style difference, although FSS did hijack his account at one point.

Either way, I hope he learns something from this. So many bridges burned over what? A conspiracy theory? Or the $20k that was so worth destroying their reputation over?

>>13001728
> All three (Saijee/ShinesBright/Shade_) have been logged into from the same IP within several hours of each other today.

I'm not sure what to make of that. Hah. Either there's some identity-games being played or I forgot a tuna sandwich somewhere on my desk again. One way or another, that fishy smell has to come from somewhere...

>>13001794
I think he just wanted to make something cool and be recognized by a lot of people.

>>13001805
Funny thing was everyone was trying to help him do that and he stuck his foot right up his butt.

>>13001805
My two cents on it from what I've seen from the start, it seemed like he desperately wanted to be the shining bridge between the western and eastern fan communities and just couldn't handle being told differently or seeing things deviate from his vision.
He couldn't accept that he was in no way qualified for such a thing.

I honestly wanted to believe there was some small hope of redemption for him, but each and every thing he did made my opinion of him sink lower and lower than I previously thought possible.

>>13001838
Yeah. I think he just latched onto that heroic idea and wouldn't, or couldn't, let go.

>>13001838
He wasn't being told differently. We told him many times that his approach would get him into a lawsuit. That making a game is fine, and it would even get ZUN's blessing, but he could not take people's money before making the game because then it would be a business, not doujin works. He did not listen.

A pity too, because I was genuinely intrigued on what he had to offer. I merely intended to warn him, nothing more.

>>13001858
It always boiled down to the money. It was never about being permitted to make a Touhou game, just, don't monetize it through ads and crowdfunding :S. He figured he could shoot first and beg for forgiveness later, and that's not how it works.

>>13001858
I am aware of that, but he certainly took plenty of things wrong and twisted their meaning. Like you said he just wouldn't listen, at least to anyone that seemed like they had any sense about them.

As entertaining a read all the drama has been, at this point all I can do is shake my head. Every time I think things are more or less resolved more stupidity happens.

>>13001883
That above all was his biggest offense. He could have been forgiven for not "getting" doujin culture, even as brazenly ignorant and egotistical as he did. Even after he got his hand smacked for reaching into the wrong cookie jar.

But he drove the stupid all the way down the hill and you just gotta sit back and facepalm and ask why. And then feel sad over the loss of something potentially great due to hubris.

>>12999719
The campaign page said they've sent e-mail to ZUN. It never said they got a reply.

So it's true they never actually claimed being in contact with ZUN, but it's also clear that they intended to fool people to think that they are.

>>13001175
Can you blame him considering recent events?

>>13001241
>これはあかんでしょう

>>13001375
Someone who just lost $20k+ he thought he already had in his pocket.

>>13001461
More than once.

I finally read the shrinemaiden thread, and wow. He got so much good advice and information right from the beginning. But he ignored all of it. He had no time to read 8 pages of a forum, but did have 19 hours to make a video.

> FSS will not respond to comments for this video or this FB post, but please discuss among yourselves!
Ha. This amuses me.
Even THEY knew this would trigger a shitstorm. They still went ahead and made their video anyway.

>>13001728
>ShinesBright
>claiming to be a classmate of FSS.
That person's been kissing their asses and supporting them since the beginning of all the drama bullshit, I wouldn't be surprised if it was one of them or a friend of theirs.

>>13002313
According to IPs, Shinesbright came from the same university/household.

>>13001175
The guidelines aren't even written under the explicit consideration for foreign doujin works, they were written for Japanese content creators. The whole "he doesn't want foreigners to get their hands on it" angle is completely wrong. It has nothing to do with overseas.

>>13002368
To get this whole deal with ShinesBright straight, they are indeed another person that looks like they went to the same university as the brothers. They're obviously friends. What's unknown is to what extent they made their own posts and what extent their account was used as a sockpuppet.

I'm amazed at the seemingly infinite patience shown by the MotK mods in dealing with this shitstorm. If I was a mod there I'd feed FSS to /cow/ in a blink.

Zun: 1
Foreigners: -20k

Based Zun. Japan allied with Germany to slay the kike menace and Zun follows in his glorious ancestors' footsteps.

大和魂 大和魂 大和魂 大和魂 大和魂 大和魂 大和魂 大和魂 大和魂 大和魂 大和魂 大和魂

peoplelaughing.mp3
laugh01.wav

>>13002798
> Zun follows in his glorious ancestors' footsteps.

>>13002935
Who ye quoting

>>13002972
>Who ye quoting

Is the guy from FSS still posting his conspiracies, or his he gone for now?

>>13003047
he claims this is the last video but with people who think everything is a conspiracy he will likely post more as support for his non touhou thing dies out

>>13003053
His video before this one was totally his last one too. Expect crazy guy to not give up beating that drum that his "game" got silenced due to commercialism and MotK censorship.

I'm waiting for his new sockpuppets to show up at any time claiming that FSS is a martyr and Touhou belongs to the people!!!!!

>>13003102
>Touhou belongs to the people.
Sounds like an entitled bitch/socialist. Touhou belongs to whoever holds the copyright/whoever can take it by force(a government). It only belongs to the people when in its released to the public domain.

I would die laughing if FSS does this.

>>13001492
This.

The Japanese only stomach Western works when they faithfully emulate Eastern art styles.

>>13003139
He really came off as one of those jerks who think doujin = free to steal or pirate. Doujin culture is technically illegal but there's an unspoken agreement between rights holders and doujin circles that as long as you don't sell your works commercially they look the other way.

ZUN honestly doesn't care if people use his IP, just like any other doujin person he personally sees it as a great honor so many people are interested in what he considers just a hobby. To him derivative works are a homage.

Just because he doesn't necessarily care that people derive his works, at the same time any commercialization threatens his control over his own work, and he has to defend it. Most of the doujin community gets it, just because they borrow his characters and universe doesn't mean they try to pass themselves off as official Touhou games. Everyone tried to explain this to FSS but instead he decided that he was entitled to use Touhou IP as he saw fit, and make money off of vaporware.

>>13003146
>The Japanese only stomach Western works when they faithfully emulate Eastern art styles.

And that's why Disney and Pixar are so popular in Japan?

>>13001924

This. Indiegogo is a extremely scam friendly platform. Google "scampaigns" and you'll find most of the culprits using IGG.

But thanks to Kanako and Suwako, based ZUN moved the only known force in the Universe greater than Indiegogo's craven policies: a DMCA's Copyright Infringement claim, and quickly demolished the scam.

>>13003223
Dont try arguing with japanophiles, they are so deluded they dont realise they arent in good company here.

http://may.2chan.net/40/res/4771264.htm
I just pray that the nips realize that most of us are condemning this guy too.

>>13003263
Not to mention anime was heavily influenced by Disney's work and the main stylistic differences were born out of cost cutting measures to limit the use of expensive background canvases and key animation.

Tired old troll is lame and boring. Try harder.

>>13003290
I hope so too because that last video was beyond retarded and I can see how it might be seen as a declaration of war. He went full stupid.

>>13003290
>>13003314
From the look of that thread they can't care less about this drama. And why should anyone here care about what japs are thinking? Why is /jp/ filled with so many insecure sperglords?

>>13003314
>Declaration of war
The war and battle was won by ZUN the moment the fag started taking money for 2huxSSBB. Some aftereffects is the guy going retarded about ownership of Touhou, and hat ZUN can and can't do.

>>12998758
>Tl:dr. FSS is idiots.
>Why do they still exist?
Because idiots even more idiotic.

Shit game.

>>13003334
I only care in the sense that it was one of my own that went full asshat, and I feel kinda responsible to make amends. I couldn't care less about any actual long lasting "reputation" we earn from people who just want to lump us in the "baka gaijin" category.

>>13003371

>>13001924
>Can you blame him considering recent events?
I suppose not.

>>13002420
Then what does it mean? Surely if he doesn't want Japs selling it outside the country he doesn't want Westerners doing it either?

>>13003290
What do you care what they think of us?

>>13003334
>>13003639
>And why should anyone here care about what japs are thinking?
>What do you care what they think of us?

B-but they're making fun of us! ;_;

>>13003659
It's only out of ignorance.

>>12998758
>doughjin spirit
Is it really pronounced like that? I've always thought it was "doojin"

>>13003669
I bet you also thought Touhou is pronounced "2hu".

>>13001858
>He wasn't being told differently.
I spent a little while on /2hu/ and got introduced to the project their, everyone who told him to change his Reimu's color scheme (it originally had eye raping blue in it and eventually become "American Reimu) and he got up in arms, eventually he changed it but still got upset and repeated his same speeches over and over again if anyone said differently.

That whole thread was a big red flag on how hypocritical he was. He claimed to be so open minded and welcoming to the input of fans, but all he would do is fight and claim "artistic license" to everything.
He also seemed to refused to actually address anyone who brought up well thought up points, like the whole discussion about Koumajou Densetsu and how their "artistic license" with color schemes wasn't grating on the eyes.

>>13003705
I pronounce it like that, because 'toe-hoe' sounds derogatory, and since 'too-hoo' is about cute girls it should sound cute.

>>13003738
The guy was an autistic scam artist. Nothing more, nothing less.

>>13003159
>but there's an unspoken agreement

That's it really. He's like a sperg who comes into a group without understanding, fucks up the atmosphere, then melts down when someone tells him to stop.

>>13003909
Like most tertiary "fans". Even secondaries have some shreds of shame.

I had gotten into a comment war with the developer in one of his earlier videos. Essentially what it boiled down to was 'I made some mistakes, -however- x, y, and z are on ZUN and need to be changed.'

At which point, I mentioned that he should try maintaining a good PR for his group, even mentioning that his actions speak as someone overseas to the eastern community. To quote him directly,
"I really never claimed to be professional and don't quite think I will."

"I don't represent professionals, and I don't represent America. I only represent my personal beliefs."

In other words, just because his group was going to make money off of this, he didn't think he needed to be professional about it, and that he could say whatever he feels like. See, speaking for yourself is one thing, but when you're speaking as the one in charge of something that involves legal processes and essentially buisness, a professional approach is necessary. We can see already how well the contrary approach did for him. Seeing it blow up in his face like this after seeing just how much of a shit he was gives me a strange sense of satisfaction.

>>13003909
Which, I mean, if he had hit his initial fuckup and everyone crucified for him not knowing, that I could honestly say would have been an honest mistake. But no, we warned him before, during, and WELL AFTER that what he was doing was really really not cool and he stuck his hand up his butt and shouted loudly he could do whatever he wanted with Touhou and ZUN couldn't tell him what to do because he's a sell out or some other conspiracy shitfit.

>>13003926
When it comes to making projects, video games, or other things. It always requires somebody professional.

0 professionals equal self-destruction, or failure from not having the knowledge.

>>13003957
Most devs make horrible PR mouthpieces and... strangely coincidentally, a lot of indie devs come off as gigantic tools. Generally the talents and drive required to be an indie dev are the exact opposite for what's required to be good at PR. Not saying there's not awesome indie devs who are great people.

While it makes entertaining drama, so much crap could be avoided if people would just find someone not a dev or other technical person to be their PR manager. Techie people tend to be brutally honest, and it doesn't help the main image portrayed of the indie dev is the primadona drama queen.

Even when I try suuuuper hard to avoid stepping on peoples toes and saying the right things I inadvertenly say something offensive because I really don't like being dishonest and I'm not the greatest at understanding emotions. For someone further up the spectrum (which again, usually makes them better equipped to be an indie dev), it's even more imperative.

>>13003985
Around the start of the project Saijee was saying stuff like "Anyone can make games. You don't need some special talent. You just need to keep going, no matter what happens, never let anyone tell you that you can't do it."

At the time it seemed innocent enough...

I try to live peacefully with 2hu. What is that shitstorm about? Can someone explain me what's wrong with that game or with that guy?

>>13004036
What he said was right, but there's a degree of humility.

There's a really good example for this. A man decided to make some sort of religious game I think, and when he showed the final product he was met with large degrees of hate, citing the characters to be creepy looking and so forth.
Rather than argue back though, he took it as advice. He went off of those scary models he made and went on to make Five Nights at Freddy's. Now, yes that game has such an awful community, and the scare factor gets old fast, but he went from complete shit to making something that people genuinely enjoyed.

So, yes. Don't stop just because people tell you to, but listening to others for advice is always helpful. Saijee is actually just a fuck.

>>13003920
>Even secondaries have some shreds of shame.
Do you know it because you're secondary too?

>>13004069
It's easier to read it on MotK: https://www.shrinemaiden.org/2015/02/04/on-a-certain-fangame-project-by-a-certain-developer/.. Currently we have 150 posts of discussion of some guy's butthurt. And that's disgusting.

>>13004102
I play the games and own the books.

Couldn't beat the games in lunatic to save my life though.

>>13004135
Wow, we are so glad for you.

>>13004083
Generally the hardest lesson to learn is not how to tune out people when things get negative, but how to process people's criticisms and realize when they're probably right.

Perseverance and dedication to an ideal is great and all, but if they start running into a lot of road blocks, and a lot of people around them are telling them they're going the wrong way, they should probably listen. While "fuck da hatas" is a good skill to have but one also has to still be able to process outside input and weigh it. When things get tough it's usually more important than ever to take input from outside sources since it's likely their own views are being skewed due to emotion.

It's why doctors never operate on their own family, and lawyers won't represent themselves, even if they're super talented themselves. When things get tough, objectivity is usually the first thing to go out the window. Surrounding oneself with trustworthy people who will truthfully them when they're being a shitheel and not an echo chamber cult of personality that kisses their ass is what separates the well managed projects from the poorly managed ones, even if all the actual work is still a one person show. I know I tend to get really emotionally stressed easily so I'm always looking for second/third/seventh opinions before doing something big.

zunのガイドラインが悪いだの
zunが外人嫌いだのいい放題

>>13003290
What dojin is this from?

http://youtu.be/-D1ioyC0Ljk?t=22m2s

Find out next time, on the next episode of Dragon Ball Z!

>>13003639
>Then what does it mean? Surely if he doesn't want Japs selling it outside the country he doesn't want Westerners doing it either?
Again, it has nothing to do with restricting "only" overseas distribution. It's mass distribution in general; using "overseas distribution platforms" is just an example of channels that reach way beyond an audience that can acknowledge the original works. Even with these limits, all over Japan you have people who recognize characters and are fans of songs, but don't know the source works at all. This is type of thing is what he wants to limit and without these restrictions it would be even more out of hand than it already is.

>>13003781
Really?

How does Touhou sound derogatory?

>>13004810
Just ignore the SJW trolls.

I don't Westerners ever had a positive image in the Touhou community, or one at all, but this will surely put it in a more negative light.

>>13004751
You are fucking kidding me.

He is the last person that should give any "advice".

I was just saw The /jp/ 2hu Fangame thread - >>12998071.
Apparently some /jp/sie made a game - Pure Chromatic Bloom.
It's also on android's Play Market.
It's free, but it has ads (and really annoying ones).
In case you don't know ads on mobile platforms are against guidelines as well.

After reading this thread I find it really funny.

>>13004827
You don't what?

>>13004898
he doesn't even

>>13004795
Hmm, I see what you mean, sort of. Thanks for clarifying.

>>13004550
If ZUN hates foreigners so much, why did he come to that one US Touhou convention?
And why did he post on his twitter about wanting to get the games translated and released on steam one day?

> FSS goes about their business without caring about the shitstorm they've raised with their video.
Wow. That's the nail in the coffin for them. They've already posted a new video and still manage to bring up how they were right and everyone else was wrong in its comments.......

I'm not saying FSS is in the right here, but the hypocrisy and unwarranted bashing from the opposite side is astounding.

>>13005071
I know what you mean. I was inclined to forgive FSS, in part because I didn't like all the Westerners wringing their hands over what the Japs might think, but FSS has completely gone off the deep end.

>>13005071
>fucked shit up
>getting bashed for fucking shit up
>everyone stopped caring and let the thing die
>keep beating the dead horse
>continue digging a deeper hole and bury himself in it, doxxing, manipulating truth, attacking individuals, etc
>hypocrisy and unwarranted bashing

>>13005071
>hypocrisy
I don't think you know what that word means.

He's removing negative comments on his most recent video now. What a coward.

>>13004890
I dunno, ad money barely registers on the cents unless you have millions of people playing your games. At most, it would only be good to pay a couple of meals per month.

>>13005519
That doesn't make it okay, faggot.

>>13004890
I don't see mention of this game anywhere in either the threads or /jp/'s archives.

>>13005553
It's the Youmu game.

>>13005528
Is it any different from the ones who put their comics and games on DMM?

>>13005698
Doesn't load for me, so that's the end of that.

>>13005443
On the one after he said that it would be the end of it? Good. Continuing to bash him beyond his conspiracy theory video is stupid. Let them just do their own little thing while they fade back into obscurity.

>>13005725
I wouldn't expect anything else from a retard who couldn't find a game after I explicitly posted the name and a link to a thread. Doesn't load what? Did you even try to d/l it on your android phone?
Here's a screenshot for you. That ad is there during the whole game. Even the shittiest mobile games I've played show ads only in menus or while paused.

>>13008912
Wow, Youmu's head is really long. I hope she's okay.

>>13008912
A name that shows up nowhere unless I follow a link to everything in the pastebin, sure.

Anyway, I'm curious about the degree to which this actually violates ZUN's guidelines - hopten's had an ad floating above it for maybe up to five and a half years and I don't recall anyone ever complaining about it.

>>13005067
>>13005106
Go back to /v/.

>>13010594
It's similar to some circles selling downloadable versions of their touhou games. It's not allowed but ZUN just can't cover everything. And people actually don't care about guidelines unless someone goes waaayy to overboard like FSS did.

This is what happens when idiots don't understand the good faith involved.
This is why we can't have nice thing.

>>12998758
This guy keeps avoiding requests to show everyone the email he said he got from Ruw or something. He said that it would violate privacy laws, and he should wait until 140 days until he can disclose the email. Any of you know what law he is talking about? I thought disclosing emails are fine as long as it doesnt have any sensitive info or the sender requested not to disclose it.

None of it matters anyway since he made a video filled with people's names and personal messages to incite a lynch mob. I heard some people are already getting reported for no reason

>>13010594
I don't know if it makes any sort of difference, but hopten itself doesn't contain any ads. It's just located on a page that has an ad. You could open the flash directly if you wanted.

>>13010765
I had a big post but this summed up what I wanted to say.

Also waiting warmly to see the abominations that are Not-Reimu, Not-Sakuya, etc.

What a bag of dicks......

They already posted a new video on 'doujin spirit' and are discussing what other IPs they can leech off of.

>>13014358
Some people never learn. Watch them crumble under lawsuit after lawsuit by the time this whole thing is done...

Or an angry lynchmob. Either way we're getting a show.

>>13014358
Idiots will be idiots, and the saddest part is that they can't see it with their own eyes.

Ignorance is bliss?

>>13014440
>Watch them crumble under lawsuit after lawsuit
You're stupid.

>>13014358
i could appreciate them working with their own IPs that they've created, but with them branching off trying to get other people's characters in, it just seems like they wanted to ride off of the popularity of other people's characters from the beginning

not to mention, if it truly was saijee's "dream" to make a touhou game, then he wouldn't have dropped it so easily, especially after finding out that ruw = fumio. he just wants to make a quick dime on steam/wiiu (and from the IGG, but he got forcibly shutdown and cried like a baby about it)

>>13014471
you're stupid

>>13014440
they're going to be asking for permission to use the characters
with regards to that youmu game on the marketplace: report it if you want to (it's not supposed to be on there), no one else gives enough of a damn to bother

the reason saijee got so much flak was because he was trying to get as much attention as he possibly could, even trying to get the japanese side of the fandom; so obviously, he's going to be under more eyes and more scrutiny. not to mention that kickstarter-type things are already generally criticized, even worse that he used flexible funding and ridiculous stretch goals


i've never heard of this youmu game until just now, so it's obscurity allows it to lay low and no one does anything about it. it's not like ZUN will be constantly patrolling english marketplaces, anyway

>>13014554
> they're going to be asking for permission to use the characters
I'd hope they won't decide that "no reply means it's cool" this time around but that would be implying From Soy Sauce is capable of learning from its mistakes. It's a condiment, after all.

>>12998758
Holy shit, they are trying to argue that Doujin and indie aren't the same thing in Japan. Wow, they are retarded.

what if IGG was the one who conviced FSS that zun is againts him?

i mean, his persistence and accusations are rather abnormal, isn't it?

Oh wow, the video has been taken down.
Think he will make a new one or has he learned for the better?

LMAO HE MADE A NEW ONE. More edited content, still doxxing Ruw and showing names of others in the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5dUbzRMwaI

Lil' fucker probably wanted to eliminate all negative comments. He claims someone else took the video down but lookie here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-D1ioyC0Ljk

"This video has been removed by the user."

MR. I DON'T CENSOR / EDIT. MR. I VALUE OPINIONS.

>>13018972
>Lil' fucker probably wanted to eliminate all negative comments
Someone posted a pastebin of the previous video's comments as a reply to the first comment made in the new video. Looks like there's no escaping them after all.

>>13019136
YOU CAN'T GET OFF M. BONES' WILD RIDE

Wow, this is fucking pathetic.

I wish to be refunded the oxygen these hacks have consumed on my planet without my consent.

>>13019136
Streisand effect is going full force there.

>>13018972
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5dUbzRMwaI
and added my dislike, thank you anon.

>>13019156

Wow. Some people just keep digging a deeper and deeper hole for themselves, don't they? What a hoard of jewgoat faggot-crabs FSS are...

>>13017648
FSS assumed ZUN was suing them for copyright infringement when he sent a takedown notice to IGG. MotK spent a ridiculous amount of time and effort trying to explain to them that the takedown was Ruw's way of helping FSS out of the IGG ToS, which forced them to keep their campaign going because they had already started to receive money.

So, yeah, no. It had nothing to do with IGG trying to mislead anyone. It was just FSS being retarded and paranoid.

>>13020097
But didn't ZUN's buddy who handles all of the copyright issues, tell them they couldn't use 2hu characters anymore?

https://imgur.com/a/gzDUt

No respect for the freedoms ZUN's guidelines gave him.

>>13020339
No.

>>13020097
>>13020339
No. FSS just said that was clearly what ZUN intended by shutting down the IGG campaign.

Despite Saijee having agreed on multiple sites beforehand that asking ZUN to shut down the IGG campaign would be their best option.
At least, multiple people brought it up, and Saijee responded to them without saying anything negative. Also Saijee complained a lot about how IGG made it really hard to return peoples' money unless a copyright claim was involved.

>>13020339
ZUN's buddy didn't tell FSS *anything* at that point.
ZUN's buddy told FSS that the game was fine, they just couldn't do something so commercial as crowdfunding with it. FSS accepted this and promised to take down the IGG page, but didn't take it down, then said they really wanted to take it down but couldn't without a copyright claim. ZUN's buddy decided to help them out by sending a generic copyright takedown notice to IGG (not FSS). Then FSS started losing their heads.

>>13020495
So, in the end, all they wanted was keeping the money?

>>13020806
that, or they're literally idiots

not sure which is more likely

>>13020806
No, this guy >>13020495 is not entirely correct

1. FSS starts crowdfunding
2. Drama
3. Finally Ruw (ZUN's friend helping with legal/business stuff) sends them notification
4. FSS can't cancel campaign (it's IGG's rules) so they promise to refund money to anyone who asks for it. But if you don't ask for a refund, they promise to spend the money on the game. Note: they already raised all requested funds at this point.
5. Drama part 2
6. Ruw DMCA's campaign down which causes automatic refund.
7. Ruw explicitly prohibits them to use touhou characters.
8. FSS are butthurt
9. They decide to continue making the game but with different setting/characters.

>>13020903
>7. Ruw explicitly prohibits them to use touhou characters.
When did this happen?

>>13020914
It's FSS's wrong and retarded interpretation of what they got sent.

>>13020903
7 supposedly happened but we never got confirmation. I think this was the email they claimed they got but refused to disclose?

>>13020967
Yeah. It could be indeed something vague like "you're not allowed to use touhou characters in your project". In campaign project or in project at all? They sent an email to him asking for clarification, but they didn't get a response.

But does it matter? The main issue was that FSS still tried to keep the money after campaign was prohibited. Refund on demand only, seriously? Why would any backer ask for a refund if they want their game and bonuses? Basically it would mean that campaign wasn't cancelled at all - the game would be still 'crowdfunded'. If FSS said they were going to unconditionally refund the money they wouldn't get DMCA notification from Ruw.

>>13020903
it's a load of bullshit that they couldn't cancel the campaign. they should have contacted IGG telling them that they had to delete the campaign (because flexible funding doesn't let you delete it yourself, what a fantastic idea to even use flexible funding to begin with) because otherwise it would be copyright infringment. no way IGG would have let it continue running.

this was just a ploy to keep the money.
sure, some people were going to be strapped on cash and would like to get the money back, but many people (particularly the people who gave for the "favorite shrine maiden" rewards, which were thousands of dollars) were going to let FSS keep the money.

FSS was telling people who willingly gave them money, "we ask that you please take the money back, but we will still fulfill your perk regardless. if you want to let us keep the money, we cannot stop you", like, who would even want a refund of their money that they already willingly gave if they were still getting the perks for it. only a cunt would; besides, if you read that shrinemaiden thread, you see about 3~ of the favorite shrine maiden tier donors saying they were going to let FSS keep the money. already that's 6k~ that goes in his pocket. that's not counting his blind fandumb that were going to let him keep the money already. i'd bet that he'd get to keep more than half of the money if he went through with his retarded manually refunding idea.

this is why he's made it into such a big deal. he didn't get to keep his illegitimately earned money.

>>13021041
also to add, not once did i ever see them say anything about contacting IGG to try to solve it. they were just on and on about their ridiculous manually refunding idea.

>>13021024
>Refund on demand only, seriously? Why would any backer ask for a refund if they want their game and bonuses?

To be fair they were gonna refund everyone and only keep the money on demand.
But yeah, that still doesn't make it any less bad, since the people who paid would most likely request they keep the money and give them the perks.

I've always sort of wondered this, given the levels of retardation with gamemakers, but is learning to make games really so easy that any moron that thinks he can get away with shit can make them? Serious question. Because it sounds like something you could learn to do with one ear in your ass. Provided, knowing how to make != knowing how to make something good.

>>13021219
if you have the time, learning unity (or any other game maker) is not difficult

>>13021219
The main issue is having a strong vision and sticking with it. That, at least, is one thing that Saijee was 100% right about.

>>13021219
>>13021231
Really? Because from what I've seen, read and tried myself it seems like you have to be some kind of a genious to make games.
Like even the most simple basic stuff requires a ton of time and work and you'll most likely fuck it up anyway.

>>13021275
Everything worthwhile requires time and work, anon. That's just the nature of big projects. That's just life.

>>13021275
Making games with a framework like Unity or Game Maker is a million times easier than, say, trying to do it all in C or C++. But either way, the art still needs to be good, the sound still needs to be good, the levels still need to be well designed, the story if there is one needs to be engaging, etc. Programming is essential but it's also one of those things nobody playing is even going to notice unless something goes wrong. Everything else is theatre.

>>13021231
I suppose it just seemed tough since I decided to start off learning C++, which, isn't even dedicated to making games.
>>13021287
Well, naturally. It took me years to learn to draw and to do music. I just find it a bit hard to believe that there are people who lack basic amounts of common sense, yet are able to drive themselves to learn to make games.

>>13021342
>I suppose it just seemed tough since I decided to start off learning C++, which, isn't even dedicated to making games.
While tools like Unity make it easier, it's still good to have experience with doing it the hard way, just so you have a better idea of how to plan things out.

will he eventually dig himself to the other side of the world?

>>13021739

I wonder what this guy's brothers think of him. I don't know, they strike me as being a little bit more mature, even if they also use stupid ass avatars and shitty voice filters.

>>13021739

Oh, wow. Another one for the list. This guy must be quite the shovel aficionado.

>>13020903
>>13020914
>>13020935
>>13020967
>>13021024
They got this impression entirely from the email IGG sent them detailing the copyright notice. The notice itself, obviously, states in one way or another that they were not allowed to use the IP of Team Shanghai Alice and so are in violation of copyrights. Despite all indications otherwise, FSS took this to mean that they were not allowed to use TSA IP for anything ever in any circumstance.

>>13021739
this drama is really getting saucy

Is this for that shitty Touhou smash game that was going to go on Wii U?

Why did he crowd fund it? That's just stupid. You can't just do that.

>>13022276
Not only that, he created a shit throwing video and claimed that the video is educational for all touhou devs when he was told not to do that.

>>13021739

Looks like the guy is having a mental breakdown.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAtM0cWgAWU

>>13023207
tl;dw

That being said, he's already lost.

>>13023207
I want to put a sarcastic comment on there to be funny, but at this point I don't even find it funny. Just sad. He's already well into the mantle and digging his way to China. Hope he finds whatever he's looking for.

>>13023207
So, new video and new channel? For what purpose?

>>13023207
This pathetic. I think he just wants attention now.

So, the interesting question : which one is worse? FSS or DSP?

>>13023207
>DON'T COMMENT UNLESS YOU FULLY HEAR THE VIDEO
Urge to make a youtube account just to make a derogatory comment is rising...

It isn't like the game would have been allowed through by Nintendo either, there were too many barriers to its success, it was clearly a scam from day one.

>>13022318
I wonder what the advice is all about.

Making a Touhou game is simple. Just don't make a commercial profit from it,

>>13024902
I'm too distracted by the cute wakasagihime to agree with you.
But you're probably right, though you should expect an autist to understand that rules applies to him too.

>>13024908
shouldn't*

ED page when?

>>13024902

But you can make a professional profit from it. Just not commercially.

>>13024918
To get an ED page, you need to attack ED, or one of ED's admins.

>>13021739
Holy fucking shit I can't stop laughing.

>>13024791
What's a DSP?

Is the group even still together? I don't think I heard anything about them breaking up, but I wouldn't be surprised if they broke up after this whole mess. Whoever was in charge of programming the game might still have a future ahead of him if he runs while he can and acts as if he was never a part of this.

>>13029230
They aren't disbanding, they're brothers.

>>13029230
They' brothers, so I don' think they'll break up just like that.

>>13029242
>>13029243
Are they all autistic morons or is it only the one who talks for all of the videos?

>>13029283
Aren't they rich kids so they're inherently retarded? That seems to be a thing.

What do you guys have against people making a profit. There seems to be this silly belief that if you are a 'true' indie then you make games because you like making games and nothing more. What if you loved making games but also loved making a profit. The leftist media has brain washed you guys into thinking that money is bad.

>>13029322
You're not supposed to make a profit by selling something that belongs to someone else.

>>13029322
Nice try Shlomo Sauce, using crowdfunding to justify an unmonitored cashgrab off someone else's work instead of pulling money out of your own pocket for such a project is disguisting

>>13029333
As FSS pointed out. ZUN cherry picks and micromanages who can profit from his IP. The traditional doujin channels that he requires people to use are only available to the Japanese. The Japanese have a long history of being elitist/isolationist. This is no different. FSS found out that ZUN is not only an elitist but a shady businessman. The Sony deal along with his behind closed doors company building has many doujin circles concerned.

I'm glad this happened. If I wasted 2 years of my life developing a game only to find out I couldn't sell it, would piss me off. Even if you take crowd funding out of the equation, there really aren't many places a westerner could sell their game. Correct me if I'm wrong.

>>13029322
ZUN loves making games and making profits, just that he finishes games first before selling them.

>>13029365
It's his IP, his characters, his choices.

As I respect private properties (even though I am a pirate), I respect his as well.

>>13029365
Then don't waste 2 years of your life developing a game around someone's else intellectual property without getting their permission first.

>>13029365
> ZUN cherry picks and micromanages who can profit from his IP.

This reminds me of those tumblerinas who think men have to be attracted to and fuck transgenders/fatties/blacks or else they're discriminating and evil.

>>13029365
Let's say you have two groups who want to use your copyright to make a game.

One group asks for permission first, has promising material, clearly has skills in art and programming, isn't asking for funding and doesn't want to sell the game commercially. They only want to sell copies to make up for costs in production.

The second group went ahead without permission, plans to commercially sell your property with large distributors which you haven't formed connections with, and clearly has a poor, unfinished mess of a product and is demanding funding. They don't even give you proper credit and can't even get the names of your game right.

Apparently, if you accept the first group but not the second, you're a xenophobic asshole.

>>13029392
Well my message to ZUN is stop misleading people into thinking your IP is free to use. I'm not sure why you guys see this as acceptable. Imagine if the GNU General Public License worked like this.

Linus Torvalds: "too bad for you, I just changed my mind. I'm going to sue everyone who is using a Linux kernel!"

ZUN really needs to take some time to write a true copyright license. What he has right now is an ambiguous series of guidelines which haven't been updated in 5 years. None of you can honestly say that you knew crowd sourcing was off the table before that Touhou card game debacle.

>>13029365
Gee, it's almost like people are more willing to give permission to those that actually communicate with them, rather than people who came out of nowhere that they don't even know.

>>13029434
You do know that FSS broke several rules that were on the guidelines anyways right? And were planning to break more?

>>13029434
>Well my message to ZUN is stop misleading people into thinking your IP is free to use.

When did he ever give people this idea? The moment you open up any Touhou game it tells you that it's copyrighted.

>>13029423
Your argument is moot since ZUN states on his website that his characters can be used. I guess my complain is that Touhou is not remotely compatible with the 4 freedoms of the GPL:

0. Freedom to run the program as you wish.
1. Freedom to study the source code of the program and then change it so the program does what you wish.
2. Freedom to help your neighbour. That’s the freedom to redistribute the exact copies of the software when you wish.
3. Freedom to contribute to your community. That’s the freedom to distribute copies or modified versions when you wish.

ZUN violates all of these freedoms.

>>13029461
Duh, his games are on Windows, and his IP is copyrighted, those alone means he does not comfort to the internet freedom.

You are free to boycott him because of that, but those facts are clear as days.

>>13029461
What are you even talking about now? What does this have to do with not allowing someone to sell your copyright commercially for profit as you wish?

I dunno what's more annoying, that it looks like two Russian guys are arguing here in English or that they're more cordial and well informed than I've ever been.

>>13029467
He's using the Stallman (originator of GNU/Linux OS)'s rule of internet freedom.

>>13029434
Clearly you don't understand ZUN's guidelines or his wishes. ZUN wants Touhou to remain doujin, or underground as the closest western equivalent. He only wants fans to find fan content, so you have to go out of your way to find Touhou merchandise. It should NEVER be marketed to the mass audience.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with making a Touhou game, being Japanese or not. You could even make an argument that he's becoming more open to digital distribution. If you made a game, it'd be perfectly fine to post it on /jp/ or Shrine Maiden. You could even make your own website and sell it while linking from /jp/ and Shrine Maiden. What crosses the line is when you start selling it on Steam or the App Store, or post it on Kickstarter or Indiegogo. Because then people not familiar to Touhou may stumble across it. That's what ZUN doesn't want.

tl;dr: ZUN wants to keep Touhou hipster

>>13029471
What does that have to do with anything?

>>13029477
Considering the state of Steam VNs, that's a good choice.

Niche content is better stay off niche.

>>13029477
One more thing to add: I'm pretty sure that Touhou card game a while back would have been fine if it weren't for having a Kickstarter and having plan to distribute to card shops.

>>13029461
I'm pretty sure what you're saying doesn't actually mean anything. We're talking about copyright law and commercial selling, not the ability to modify programs.

>>13029478
He's comparing ZUN's freedom with Stallman's freedom.

>>13029488
So why does ZUN have to follow Stallman's freedom?

>>13029490
He doesn't, but that dude thinks ideally, every programs should follow Stallman's freedom.

>>13029496
That sounds really, really flawed. Like not having copyright laws exist at all.

>>13029499
Stallman's freedom is not about the progammers, but the users.

>>13029477
And if you were feeling really jew, you could publish your Touhou game on doujin e-shops and still be within ZUN's guidelines since you have to go out of your way to find those sites. Just don't expect to make a lot of money. Doujinsoft isn't about making money anyways.

>>13029485
That reminds me, FSS often brings up "that chinese developer" as an example why he should also be able to crowdfund.

Funny thing is, "that chinese developer" actually wished FSS luck in their FB page a while ago. Seems kinda dickish to act like a jealous brat now.

>>13029461
I dont see how ZUN violates any of these rules. There is no rule that states: You must allow others to gain profit from your original IP. That's the whole point of copyright, dammit.

>>13029461
no one cares about the program, its all about protecting the characters

>>13029148
A manchild.

>>13029322
>>13029365

It seems like you are terribly misinformed or ignorant. If you follow all the discussions on this case then you'll see how stupid your arguments are.

ZUN is not against FSS making and selling Touhou Smash Game at all. He's only against crowdfunding. It's not his fault that FSS decided to misunderstand things on their own and rage quit.

>>13029434
>Well my message to ZUN is stop misleading people into thinking your IP is free to use.

You must either be a newfag, a tertiary, or have brain damage.

>>13029434
zun here, gotcha

>>13029434
>None of you can honestly say that you knew crowd sourcing was off the table before that Touhou card game debacle.
Everyone who wasn't a fucking retard knew it was shady territory and that they should probably try and clear it with TSA first.

>my message to ZUN is stop misleading people into thinking your IP is free to use
These people mislead themselves. Possibly because they're so retarded it's a wonder they manage not to choke to death in their own drool before getting up in the morning.

We done feeding the troll? Yeah? Cool.

On the bright side, this whole incident will cut off some of the really shitty parts of the fandom as they start to think ZUN is some sort of new-age jew god. That's about the only good thing I can think of though.

>>13029434
>well, my message to ZUN is blablabla
Sure thing mr.President. We'll make sure he gets your message. Would you like to contact the Prime minister of Japan as well?

>>13029434
Not sure if a troll, a legitimate retard or Saijee.

>>13030699
all three answers might be correct

>>13029365
>Correct me if I'm wrong.

saijee you need to get your head out of your self entitled autistic ass

in case you didn't notice, touhou isn't even close to a GNU license, so that example is stupid

the guidelines are a set of rules that, if you satisfy all the conditions, then he will not go after you for copyright issues. touhou is not in the free domain as you seem to think for whatever retarded reason. the entire existence of touhou doujin is illegal, but the guidelines give trust to the developers and ZUN for them to not be sued.

a westerner can sell their game at touhoucon, of which you even gladly flew to to showcase your smash game. why is it suddenly a pain to go there again to sell it? i know of at least 3 different WESTERN developers who are going to be selling their games at cons, just like all the other doujin creators in japan. sorry that you didn't get special treatment over the dozens of other fangame creators


it really was about the money all along. you shouldn't have even bothered with touhou then, oh but wait, you needed their popularity for more money. oh well, time to move onto other indie fanbases to get the popularity from them.


>>13029434
>Well my message to ZUN is stop misleading people into thinking your IP is free to use.

you are nothing but a waste of everybody's time, saijee, with your self-entitled ideals and lack of any understanding

>>13030699
most definitely the last two

>>13029437
>Gee, it's almost like people are more willing to give permission to those that actually communicate with them

Did you not learn anything from that video. FSS tried to get into contact with ZUN on several occasions and failed. They even had translators who could write messages to ZUN on twitter. FSS found out that ZUN has a message on his website saying that he doesn't respond to individual doujin groups which would kind of make sense if you think about the popularity of Touhou. ZUN doesn't have enough time to respond to everyone. Your entire argument is moot.

>>13029520
>Just don't expect to make a lot of money. Doujinsoft isn't about making money anyways

ZUN's ponzi scheme sounds brilliant. Let your fans advertise your IP while limiting their own profits. It's like ZUN is getting free advertisement. I'd like you to take a moment and think about what you just said. You sound like a child saying that an indie product is not for making money. Imagine if you said that to musicians or NFL players. Why is it suddenly unacceptable to make a profit from hard work. I agree that crowd funding is bad, but how do you make the case that steam is bad? You're sounding like a typical fanboy/apologist.

>>13029477
>You could even make your own website and sell it while linking from /jp/ and Shrine Maiden.

Be honest you're not entirely sure if ZUN would allow that. None of us are. What if you created a MMORPG, would ZUN prevent you from putting ads on your MMORPG webstie? Questions like this is why I'm not going to make a Touhou game. He's micromanaging what people can and can't do. This is very similar to the argument of "do big government regulations stifle innovation."

>>13031201
You sound salty, Saijee.

>>13029595
>. He's only against crowdfunding.
You are ironically the one who's misinformed. He's only against crowd funding you say? Okay, why is he against steam or the Wii channel. Why is he now allowing games to be published on Sony's network. Please try to make sense of all this because to me it just looks like the whims of a con-artist (or control freak at best).

>>13029434
Imagine if a Creative Commons license worked like this.

>Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike
>CC BY-NC-SA

>This license lets others remix, tweak, and build upon your work non-commercially, as long as they credit you and license their new creations under the identical terms.

You should probably contact CC and tell them they mislead people, too.

>>13031216
>Saijee
I'm glad FSS abandoned their Touhou project. Their talents are wasted on this franchise. ZUN doesn't want AAA titles. He wants Touhou to remain small time. Which is okay for simple-minded people such as yourself. But my vision for Touhou was similar to that of FSS. I wanted to make big projects like Smash Bros.

tl;dr Enjoy your shitty shmups, 2D platformers and JRPGs. For people who do not live in their parents basement money is not optional. The less money we have the less time we get to put towards building a great product.

>>13031294
>Their talents are wasted on this franchise
Yeeep. Still salty as fuck.

>>13031230
>>13031201
Hey, at least promise you're not going to make another video. I don't want to be drawn into another shitstorm. I can't resist looking unfortunately.

>>13031294
>their
>we
I like how you try to sound like you're not FSS, and yet manages to contradict yourself.

>>13031230
Hi Saijee! Still mad I banned you from MotK? :P

Can one of you ZUN apologist justify why ZUN doesn't allow steam. There are plenty of indie games on steam that virtually nobody knows about. Boson X and Cave Story are virtually unknown.

Fanboys are pathetic. You guys are embarrassing.

>>13031306 salty
Please keep your crossboarder memes out of here.

>>13031350
Why are you so mad, Saijee? It's not like you tried to scam fans and got busted by ZUN.

Oh wait....

>>13031294
So many things to take apart.
>talents are wasted
The talent that is limited to using UNITY of all things, shit sprites, shit music, shit game design etc.
>my vision was to make big projects
Then make your own damn game. Not Touhou. Only secondaries want shit like that.
>Enjoy x, y, and z.
I will.
>For people who don't live in their parents basement, money isn't optional.
Okay. If money is an issue, you should probably focus on making a game you made yourself. If anything it sounds like you want to be entitled to profiting solely on the fact your game has Touhou rather than if its good or not.

>>13031349
If you don't understand why his rules don't allow Steam sales - it's a (i) commercial (ii) digital sales channel (iii) aimed at overseas audience, all explicitly forbidden.

If you don't undestand why his rules are the way they are - you don't need to. It's his sovereign decision, which he's entitled to as the sole creator and owner of the IP. If you don't like that, you might want to complain about every media company ever and the very concept of IP law itself.

>>13031343
>MotK
I first started browsing 4chan back in 2005. I've never signed up for a faggy forum and have no plans of ever doing so. I'm glad Saijee was crucified by MotK. Seeing that made me realize that forums in general are not a good place to promote your projects. Eventually you'll run into a power hungry moderator and drama will pursue. I'm not Saijee but I agree with everything he did accept the crowd funding campaign. After the card game fiasco it should have been clear to everyone that crowd funding was a no no. By the way, back in /jp/'s glory days they would castrate people who admitted to browsing forums. Seems like the culture has changed. Kindly fuck off back to your forum. Sigs, post counts and avatars are for queers. This is an imageboard and you have no power here.

>>13031388
Okay so why is he allowing sony now? Come on apologist you can do better than this. Why is he allowing that chinese game's crowd funding to continue?

>>13031400
>"it's entirely motk's fault if sayjee is a faggot"
Yeah, sure, newfag.
Nice blogging by the way.

>>13031400
The only problem with MotK's conduct was that they were too polite to the shithead for way too long. Sometimes things need to be stated firmly and explicitly, which the circlejerking nature and false politeness of the namefag forums prevent. I don't think a few "you can't do that, retard"s would stop the scam, but I'm sure it'd at least make a few more onlookers think a bit before supporting it.

>>13031427
People are too nice. That's what allowed Saijee to scam everyone until ZUN finally gave him the beatdown he deserved.
Now, he's going to whine about how he's a misunderstood genius, and he'll claim that everything is ZUN's fault, because that's how retards act : they act like dick, get smacked, and develop a persecution complex.

>>13031408
Because Sony is his business partner, not a scammer wanting to leech off the popularity of his IP without giving anything in return.

>>13031343
>Hi Saijee! Still mad I banned you from MotK? :P
I find it hilarious that you're posting anonymously. I guess you realize that we have freedom of speech on 4chan and would tell you directly to your face that you are a huge faggot. Post with your MotK username next time. Your ego and inflated head needs to be brought down a notch. Again, this is an imageboard. There's no sig or post count telling us that you have power over us. Go back to MotK fag basket your kind isn't wanted here.

>>13031441
>"man, forums are so shit because everyone has a name, imageboards are way better!"
>"HOW DARE YOU SPEAK TO ME LIKE THAT! POST WITH YOUR NAME SO THAT I CAN THREATEN YOU"
Oh, the hypocrisy of the retard...

>>13031427
While I agree with almost all of this, there were actually people who admitted they would have followed Gayjee despite any claim because he saw him as the 'underdog' and wanted to feel like some sort of keyboard crusader defending him. Some people are beyond help I think.

>>13031450
Chickenwuss.

>>13031400
But please tell us how you really feel

>>13031427
I'll agree here, I'm a softie when it comes to dealing with others and I have a hard time telling people when they need to fuck off. None of the staff really wanted to directly pull the plug until he went way across the line with the doxxing. I'm glad he went out the way he did because it saves the rest of us the effort of the ensuing drama of the "what if the staff wasn't as mean!" crap.

There's parts I like about the anon culture and there's parts I don't like, and I get that it's not for everyone. Same with traditional "namefag" communities. Which is why I don't hold this silly elitism for "oh I only post on /jp/ or poosh" or "MotK is better than that 4chan trash". It's a different culture with different strengths and weaknesses and people come for different reasons.

In the end we're all shitty weebs, no need to be elitist about who's on the top of shit mountain.

>>13031441
Dude if you spent 2 seconds reading my posts you'd know who I'd am. I don't need to attach my name to my posts though because I'm just blowing off steam and stating my personal opinions, not like I need to drag my name out and try to stick on some false weight because "hurr durr I run crap listen to me!", or worse, some jackass think I'm speaking for other people other than myself and my own big mouth.

But please, continue to focus on me and not on the fact a shitty scam got found out and you're butthurt about it.

>>13031476
>Dude if you spent 2 seconds reading my posts you'd know who I'd am
In other words, you're so famous that everyone on /jp/ knows you? How do you manage to fill all that hubris inside your small skull?

>>13031400
>Seeing that made me realize that forums in general are not a good place to promote your projects
>>13031476
>Dude if you spent 2 seconds reading my posts you'd know who I'd am

So forums are terrible, except when they make you famous.
You should stop shooting yourself in the foot, attention whore.

>>13031481
Never said I was famous, just that if you spent more than 2 seconds drooling over your keyboard you could connect the dots and figure out who I am. I don't know why you're so upset that I don't want to have my cock stroked.

>>13031488
>if you spent more than 2 seconds drooling over your keyboard you could connect the dots and figure out who I am
That's called being famous. Do you even English, attention whore?

>>13031481
Not him, but I'm pretty sure he'd be 'the one that banned Saijee.' Your reading level about the same as your ability to gather accurate information. Or should I say inability?

>>13031494
>Not him
Yeah, right.
And I'm not the same person too. I'm someone else.

>>13031481
Saijee, just give up

>>13031476
>Dude if you spent 2 seconds reading my posts you'd know who I'd am.
Wow, just look at that ego. You really think you have some sort of importance that I'd know who you are just by reading your post. Protip: all I know is that some power hungry mod banned FSS on a faggy forum that I've never heard of. You have no notoriety moron. You're just a guy who moderates a forum. Kindly fuck off back to said forum. Your kind isn't wanted here.

>>13031464
> Which is why I don't hold this silly elitism
So it wasn't elitism when MotK used their privileges to silence a conversation. FSS didn't dox anyone. They simply showed how they were able to track down an important figure in the Touhou community. There was zero malicious intent so it's not doxing. Also, FSS is talking to a western audience so that guy's name and address is irrelevant to us westerners.

The ED and youtube definition of doxing is performing a whois search. In my days doxing meant keyloggers, trogans and social engineering. And again, if there's no malicious intent then it's not doxing.

>>13031507
Nice false flagging Saijee. You're busted and finished, everyone in the touhou fandom hates you.
Time to become an hero and kill yourself.

>>13031507
Accusing everyone who disagrees with you of being Saijee is getting old dude. You're just spamming this thread at this point. Stop. If you don't have anything useful to contribute to this conversation then keep it to yourself. Thanks.

>>13031520
>So it wasn't elitism when MotK used their privileges to silence a conversation
>no proof of anything ever being edited, all PMs between Saijee and Helepolis posted

>There was zero malicious intent so it's not doxing.
>posted personally identifiable information to try to prove a conspiracy theory that ZUN sold out commercially

I remember the first and only time I came on MotK to post a small game that I made.
The very first post I got in the thread I opened was a threat because some autist was butthurt his waifu wasn't in the game.

If you're talking about entitlement, MotK isn't that bad.
Doesn't help that a mod comes here to "blow some steam" (aka shitting the threads).

>>13031539
I dunno I would hardly call that threadshitting. The garbage being spewed by the FSS defense squad is far more entertaining.

MotK captures the dregs of the Touhou fandom anyways, since it doesn't discriminate and only kicks people out if they're too neanderthal to stop clubbing other people over the head, or are too stupid to not be complete mouthbreathers.

>>13031476
Be honest, if people on MotK told you that you're a huge faggot you'd immediately resort to using a banhammer. You are a bully and coward. You come off as an attentionwhore. Seriously, go back to MotK. You've embarrassed yourself enough. A lot of MotK folks are reading this thread. They're seeing what you're like when you don't have a banhammer. People only kiss up to you because of your ban hammer. On 4chan we don't give two shits about your admin status. Now kind fuck off faggit.

>>13031548
>The garbage being spewed by the FSS defense squad is far more entertaining.
So you admit that you too are spewing garbage, huh? Interesting.

>MotK captures the dregs of the Touhou fandom anyways
Like all forums. Either it's a circlejerk that slowly dies as its members are leaving, or it's a shithole with no standards.

Good forums don't exists.

We reached autosage a long time ago.

Guess it's time to let it go. I'm still going to shit on Saijee if I see him trying to defend his scam again or pretending he's an oppressed genius.

>>13029666

>>13031553
Calling someone else a faggot? Yeah they'd get told off. Calling a mod a faggot? Doubt it. There's a lot of shit that gets thrown at the mods that nobody ever gets in trouble for because it's assumed it's ok to fling shit at the mods because "authority sucks" and people get butthurt if they swing back.

Even now there's people complaining that the mods weren't "professional enough" because Edible replied to one of Saijee's PMs admitting he thought he was a shitheel. Apparently cursing means the staff doesn't look professional.

>>13031569
It was time to let it go the moment he started making videos about it after he said he wouldn't. The only right thing to do is to let the incident fade away and not pay any mind to it given how adamant this guy's group of fanatics are about them being right.

>>13031588
No way. If we forget, he'll pull another one under a different nickname. Let's set an example.

>>13031476
You are a textbook definition example of why 4chan forbids moderators from revealing themselves. "I'm an admin on motk, you should know who I am!"

So pathetic and sad. People like you are why I'll never go to motk. I'm not sure why you brought that up. You being a moderator brings nothing to the conversation. You just wanted to get your e-penis stroked and it backfired.

>>13031561
Not spewing garbage, just having fun poking at Saijee and his defense squad and watching the conspiracy theory get deeper and deeper.

A good forum (or internet community) is an oxymoron anyways because a good forum to one person is "restricting my freedom of speech" in another, or is too "elitist" or mean. There's no way to please everyone.

>>13031599
>There's no way to please everyone
Hence why there's no good forum. I appreciate 4chan's freedom of speech, but it also means that getting rid of shitposters is hard, and most arguments aren't exactly civils.
I used to enjoy forums and their "we all kinda know each other" mentality, but I quickly grew tired of it because no matter what you do, you're still left out because you're too new.

I still prefer 4chan over any forum, because everyone act like they're a little drunk, and I don't have to recheck my post twice to make sure there's nothing offensive in it.

>>13031583
When you're in a position of power you have to make an extra effort to be as kind as possible. Otherwise you end up in a situation where police officers can tell people to suck their balls or bosses threatening to fire their employees over minor issues. With great power comes responsibility. I guess the manchildren staff at MotK have never been in positions of real power so they don't know these simple rules. It's kind of a bully situation. You can call someone a shitheel and ban them but they can't do anything back because you are a moderator.

>Steam isn't and never will be allowed

I wonder how much this will blow in your faces when the official games gets localized. Don't get me wrong, FSS are faggots and I'm not agreeing with the asshole shitting up this thread either, but it's pretty evident from that NHK interview and from some ZUN tweets (especially that one with the settings of a th game translated in English) that a localization is coming.

>>13031592
Only dumbasses fell for it the first time. Dumbasses will always fall for it the time after too. Forget it. We don't need examples for things that should be common sense. What we have here is an outlier in common sense who thinks he's the only sane person around. Drop it and don't worry about it. Talking about it is only helping him.

>>13031618
And I agree, but at the same time can anyone fault the staff for finally showing a bit of humanity when faced with the impenetrable wall of stupid?

>>13031539
>The very first post I got in the thread I opened was a threat

So it's just like /jp/? I might consider registering.

>>13031623
Is that why we shouldn't figuratively crucify him and burn him at the stake? Because it's "common knowledge" and "only dumbasses fell for it"?

Do you want more dumbasses white-knighting the fuck out of this asshole? No? Then we must act now, for LIBERTY, for FREEDOM, for GREAT JUSTICE!

>>13031633
It's worse, because people are actually serious when they're threatening you.
And there's no way for a newfag to not be detected.

>>13031621
>blow up in your faces
How so? The reason ZUN doesn't want fan games on commercial distributing places is because he wants people who haven't heard of the series to know that his games are the original and canon games. Its the same reason he doesn't want an official anime. So if he wants to put -his- games on Steam? I'm all for it. But for a fan game to be on Steam when his isn't? That's kind of stupid.

>>13031649

I was under the impression that he didn't want Touhou to spread period, regardless if it was canon content or not. If what you say it is true then the localization would make sense, but it wouldn't explain why he kept his project "doujin" for so long.

>>13031621
A localization IS coming. It was confirmed a while ago.

>>13031657
I don't think he needs an explanation. He's not trying to become some amazing doujin-messiah. Deciding to localize overseas is obviously something that he needed to consider quite heavily. I'm pretty sure the scale of the foreign community only made itself evident in recent years too.

>>13031641

>It's worse, because people are actually serious when they're threatening you.

I'm not a fan of forums but you have problems if you truly believe this.

>>13031683
I take it you never got 150 identical messages in your inbox from a newly created account calling you a "small, sad, dickless son of a whore" because you contradicted someone on MotK.

>>13031408
Are you dense? Are you retarded?

This is not rocket surgery:

The only ones allowed to profit from Touhou are ZUN and people that have business relationships with ZUN. This is not different of any other IP.

>>13031696
I'd believe you if it actually happened. Try harder.

>>13031701
Well, talking with you is a waste of time. As expected from a drone.

>>13031454
Yeah, but those morons were only on YouTube and Facebook. Which is where they should stay, honestly.

>>13031713
I would like if they fucked off Youtube too.

>>13031708
There's no proof this actually happened, and nothing like this has ever been reported to the staff at any point. Not sure what else to say?

>>13031723
Whatever, drone.

>>13031729
Buzz buzz

>>13031769
Go build a genetic pool, drone.

Did our janitor die? Just a month ago this thread would be purged around 200 posts mark (when the main shitposting festival started). All these shitposts, grentexts, emoticons and childish trolling attempts would be sent to moderator's judgement.
If you check archives we have almost 3 times less deleted posts per day than a month ago. And it's mostly blatant spam/mlp/furry which probably gets enough reports for a global queue.

It seems like the only people who defend FSS clearly know nothing about copyright law or business.

Honestly, it's not a debate between opinions, it's just one side being ignorant to facts. If you want to defend FSS, you can't actually defend their practices, you should argue that if the project did finish, it would be worthwhile because the final product would be good or do something good. Arguing about how FSS didn't do anything unlawful is just irrational.

>>13031871
Cool story, bro.

>>13031699
>The only ones allowed to profit from Touhou are ZUN and people that have business relationships with ZUN. This is not different of any other IP.

You've never read ZUN's guidelines. ZUN says you are allowed to use his characters and sell them on traditional doujin channels. As a matter of fact, ZUN said he doesn't directly evaluate each project so he ask the creators to use their best judgement. The conversation we are having is about the ambiguity and inconsistencies of his guidelines. What "inconsistencies" you ask? ZUN says crowd funding is not allowed -> then lets a Chinese company do crowd funding. ZUN says Steam and Xbox is banned -> but is now allowing Sony.

Simply saying that only ZUN and his partners are allowed to use his IP for a profit is misinformed. Read his guidelines next time before making a statement. It might prevent you from looking like an idiot next time:
http://www.gensokyo.org/archives/1682

What FSS is complaining about is how ZUN has made exemptions for certain developers. They are also bothered by the communication barrier. Despite the fact that they had a translator they still couldn't get their concerns addressed. For the average developer who DOES NOT have a translator is going to be in fucksville. Touhou is a joke, I wouldn't recommend anybody contributing to it with this system in place.

>>13031916
>What "inconsistencies" you ask? ZUN says crowd funding is not allowed -> then lets a Chinese company do crowd funding. ZUN says Steam and Xbox is banned -> but is now allowing Sony.
>what is partnership
You sound really desperate, Saijee. It's the third time you announced you were going to leave touhou, so how about doing it for real, instead of listening to yourself?

>>13031916
I think a big misunderstanding that you have is that you think selling in doujin channels is to make large profits. Doujin selling isn't to get lots of money and to get rich, it's to make up for expenses that it took to make the product in the first place, or fund the next project. Very rarely do Doujin sellers actually make a profit.

>>13031916
the chinese company isn't crowdfunding you asshat, and they have already been condemned by the fandom just like you guys were.

do you have a chinese translator that is giving you all the details about that or something? or are you just assuming like you have been for the past month?

by the way, your translator was absolute trash, get a better one, k

>>13031609
Bitch, please. This is what USENET was for.

>>13031916
You should take a course in business before you talk about these things. There's a difference between commercial and doujin you know.

>>13031965
> Group that knows nothing about business gets in trouble when they try doing illegal business practices, then gets upset because they don't understand why but still doesn't bother to try learning business and just cries instead.

This explains a lot actually.

>>13031980
>This explains everything.
Fixed it for you.

>>13031941
>I think a big misunderstanding that you have is that you think selling in doujin channels is to make large profits.
The keyword is profit. I was responding to someone who claimed that only ZUN's parners are allowed to make a profit which is false.

Also, where's your citation for this. You claim they are saints who don't care about money. Have you actually been to a convention. Have you actually talked to a doujin circle. I don't think you have. Please keep your opinions to yourself. There are people in this world who love making games AND love making a profit. This isn't as black and white as you'd like it to be. Even if someone didn't care about profit they still have to survive. Unlike you, I don't live in my mom's basement and I have a significant other to support. If you don't clock in at least 5 hours on your game a day then it won't go anywhere. I'm a full time software engineer for a living, so that's 9 hours out of my life already. After you factor out work and sleep that's a very small amount of time I can put into making a good product. Once you leave mommy's basement you'll realize that money isn't optional.

>>13031949
They are crowd funded. FSS has documented this in their videos. Go and watch them.

>>13031916
Saijee, pls. Stop embarassing yourself.

CORRECT ASSERTION:
>The only ones allowed to profit from Touhou are ZUN and people that have business relationships with ZUN. This is not different of any other IP.

ANOTHER CORRECT ASSERTION:
>ZUN says you are allowed to use his characters and sell them on traditional doujin channels.

WHERE SAIJEE IS WRONG AND HIS WHOLE WORLDVIEW COMES DOWN CRASHING:
Traditional doujin channels aren't profit oriented, you huge retard. People make small prints of CDs, books or the like to basically cover their costs / gift like-minded people.

People at IOSYS / Tasofro / Cool & Create / etc. have day jobs, you huge, insufferable faggot. They aren't capitalizing on Touhou to achieve commercial success, they are on it because they enjoy the games / songs / community / whatever.

Until you get this, you'll be a laughingstock.

Holy shit, this thread.

Get out of /jp/. Crawl back to your /v/, tumblr and MotK.

>>13032010
>5 hours on your game a day
That's actually not even true. Realistically you need to be clocking in 8 hours on your game a day. Unless you're using something like Unity that does everything for you, you're not going to be able to create a game unless you're putting in a lot of hours. If you've ever watched a documentary on indie developers a lot of them are NEETs who live in their parents basement and can work on their game 16 hours a day. And even they still take 2-3 years to finish their games. Of course by "game" I'm not talking about some shitty 2D platformer or jrpg. I'm talking about a real indie game like Cave Story. He worked on that game for 5 years. And yes, he is making a profit from it on steam.

>>13032065
>Saijee trying to backpedal

>>13032010
>FSS has documented this in their videos.

ah, so you don't know what the deal is with them, since your own source of information is from misinformed people

>>13032010
> Also, where's your citation for this. You claim they are saints who don't care about money. Have you actually been to a convention. Have you actually talked to a doujin circle. I don't think you have. Please keep your opinions to yourself.

Actually I work for a doujin circle, so I would know. We don't rely on what we make for money, we still have jobs that let us support ourselves. There are definitely people who work fulltime on their doujin products, but living expenses are also what's considered in the expenses to make the game.

>>13032073
No. And you're a newfag trying to fit in by doing what anyone else is doing here. Unfortunately your greentext shows a cancerous /v/tard in you. Get the fuck out.

>>13032089
>Saijee getting mad when his backpedaling is busted
Nice going pal.

>>13032025
>>13032082
>have day jobs
>we still have jobs that let us support ourselves

Please refrain from discussing or mentioning such topics.
It makes me feel very uncomfortable, you could even say it triggers me.
Thank you for understanding.

>>13032116
I'm sorry Anon.

Just remember, no matter how bad things get, at least you're not Saijee.

>>13032025
This isn't a forum. Writing with caps doesn't get your point accross. It only makes you look like a bafoon.

>Traditional doujin channels aren't profit oriented
Okay, give us citation for this and I'll admit everything I said was wrong. You've never been to a convention and I doubt you speak Japanese. A profit is still a profit. If I sell a Touhou doujin for $10 and 80 people buy it at comiket then I've just made a profit of $800. If it wasn't about profit then selling would be forbidden. What you're saying makes no sense.

It's a well known fact that ZUN's policies are in place to prevent large companies from hijacking the franchise, but saying that ZUN's policies are in place to prevent indies from making too big of a profit is not only false but silly. Where the fuck are you getting this from? By the way, the Sony distribution channels have made a lot of indies filthy rich. How does that fit with your talking points?

>>13032145
What the fuck is a bafoon?

>If I sell a Touhou doujin for $10 and 80 people buy it at comiket then I've just made a profit of $800
You fucking moron are mistaking profit and turnover.
Do you think your doujin is printed for nothing? That they let you have a stall for free? There are costs and you're lucky if you can make a profit 1$ for each book you sell.

>>13031980
>Group that knows nothing about business
Indeed.

>>13032145
>If I sell a Touhou doujin for $10 and 80 people buy it at comiket then I've just made a profit of $800.

Actually that's wrong. You would have a revenue of 800$, not a profit. You would need to subtract expenses from the 800$ in order to determine what your net profit was. Chances are, you'll be making a lot less than 800$.

>>13032145
We were just talking about how FSS failed because they didn't understand business. It seems like you don't understand it either, seeing how you can't even get basic accounting down.

>>13032145
No, you haven't made a $800 dollar profit. you need to calculate the money you spent to produce the doujins (printing ect.), the money it cost to get to comiket, hotel rooms, the money you paid to get your stall. Then you TRY to earn back what you spent by selling said doujins, and you just barely break even. This is basic business, idiot.

>>13032165
>>13032169
>>13032190
>>13032192
>inb4 "lol samefag"

>>13032165
>>13032169
Let's not get caught up in minor semantics. Don't dodge the questions. I know you just took a business class 101 and think you're clever but we're trying to have a conversation here. I said nothing about how said product was being distributed. It could have been distributed digitally. It could have been distributed on a pack of $40 CD-RWs. Those tiny details are left out for a reason.

>What the fuck is a bafoon?
I mistyped ``buffoon``. Look in the mirror to learn what it means.

>>13032222
> Moving the goalposts.

>>13032225
>Dodging the questions.

>>13032232
What questions? You clearly had the misconception that selling anything = profit, and people pointed it out, ruining everything you said.

>>13032222
It doesn't matter if you made every single copy of the product by hand, walk to comiket and sleep rough, you're still paying for the stall, and there's hundreds of other people like you trying to sell their stuff. The chances of people buying from you is slim unless you're well known. It's incredibly hard to make a big profit as an indie, you're lucky if you even make a quarter of what you put into it

>>13032240
The question is how do you know it's not about making a profit. Where is your citation for this. What do doujin circles do it for. For fame? For fun? None of you have actually made a product before so you have no clue about the sacrifices involved.