/jp/ - Otaku Culture

I'm not a weeb so I don't know Japanese. Anyway I hope its saying that the shitty game is being shut down.

Is ZUN finally shutting this piece of shit down?

>>12911068
Looks like the article mistakenly say it's for WiiU despite the actual game was meant for PC.

>>12911074
This.

>>12911099
I thought the guys were aiming for a WiiU release too.

The thread's up for over an hour, huh? I guess only blatant advertisement and linking to e-begging sites is banned.

Looks like they finally decided to (actually) contact ZUN after that tweet:
https://twitter.com/SaijeeHiguchi/status/555435236658794499

Now that a single clown has killed any chance of zun ever trusting gaijins, how much worse will the drm get in future events?

>>12911253
It's not even the first time, another guy tried to make quick cash by using fanarts randomly found on pixiv and put them on cards in order to sell them.
Even /jp/ fell for it.

The project got stopped by ZUN too.

>>12911234
I seriously hope he shuts it down.
ZUN said himself, you can't ask for money to make your Touhou game.
Same thing happened with that Touhou card game.

>>12911298
But Japan did that just fine. There was a group selling cards around the time of SWR's release.

>>12911298
>using fanarts randomly found on pixiv

Nope, they paid an artist to draw them specifically for the project. You really don't need to make them look worse than they actually were.

>>12911328
They got shut down because they started a kikestarter scam, not because of the cards.
Pretty much the same thing these people are doing.

>>12911068
Some spics translated the page.

I won't even bother changing the filename for all I care.

>>12911328
You can do whatever you want as long as you don't try to distribute in commercial channels or prefund your project.

I hope it gets shut down. The character models look absolutely awful.

Solution:
1. Make the game
2. Sell it on your own site

I don't see any problems. It's a small game, they can invest into ii on its own.

>>12911416
That's exactly what he was doing a little time ago and it was going great.
I guess the idea of istantly seeing the money in front of you is way too juicy, too bad that leads 90% of the time into an unfinished/delayed/badly done product.

>>12911416
That's the plan if ZUN shuts down the crowdfunding.

>>12911352
>not good

He said they can't do it. He used a phrase that can mean different things depending on context, so I guess that's an acceptable "safe" translation, but we know the context. They can't do it, period.

It seems that some people cling to an interpretation that the "it" in question is making a game for WiiU rather than crowdfunding it, but I'd be willing to bet they're wrong.

Wanting to make a touhou dojin work implies a great love for 2hu (ZUN's work).
But the total disrespect for ZUN's simple use requirements shows the opposite.
what is this i don't even

>>12911068
Good, because the models looked like ass

>>12911848
>Wanting to make a touhou dojin work implies a great love for 2hu (ZUN's work).
Or they just wanted to make dosh.

Did they lie about e-mailing ZUN?

>>12911986
Perhaps not, but they certainly failed to disclose that he never replied.

>>12911234
>>12911986
They had reached out to him quite a while before. It was probably missed by ZUN, and in the meantime they set up the campaign. I think putting it up anyways with the disclaimer that they were contacting ZUN (without saying that he hasn't replied) was a bad idea, but they definitely attempted previously.

They've put in quite a lot of work into this already. Accusing them of just trying to make money is pretty dumb when it's already been such a long-term project with demonstrable results and feasible future goals.

>>12911352
Machine-translation tier. Total garbage.

>>12911416
The motivation for crowdfunding was essentially for professional dev tools and licenses and shit. The stretch goals are insane and personally I find it bad practice, but maybe they felt as though they had to put them in there because they met their goal.

>>12912594
>The motivation for crowdfunding was essentially for professional dev tools and licenses and shit

I'm actually confused. Japanese Indie game developer can develop their game in house without any funding. Why does Western indies developer needed funding to move?

>>12911986
I don't remember making a 2hu doujin game requires an email from ZUN. I don't think Japanese 2hu doujin game developer did that. They just create it, plaster some disclaimer and sells it on event.

>>12912883
You need permission from ZUN if you do anything that falls outside his guidelines.

>>12912871
Time.
They want to release the game with a 12-15 character roster in one year and need money to pay other people to animate the characters.
Don't know why they just can't pirate the full version of the software they're using.

>>12912896
I remember the development progress of Gensou Shoujo Taisen game. They were in development for around a year or two before the 1st game is released. They show some progress at Nico and they never ask for fundings.

Are Western indie game developers future AAA developer where they're given time limit to release a game that ended up as a disappointment?

>>12911234
So, they say the WiiU is wrong info, but they don't actually say anything about their raising funds for the PC version on indiegogo.com. Do they want to hide it or something?

>>12912923
I'm guessing they want to release it before the 2016 APEX smash tournament in hopes of it becoming big enough to get a spot as a main game.

>>12911521
You... have no idea how アカン is used...

>>12913011
I'm sure your amazingly detailed post set him straight!

>>12911068
Yeeaah. So you guys know, the guys youtube has also made this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fChZlDsZg6o

Picture kind of related.

>>12912971
>So, they say the WiiU is wrong info, but they don't actually say anything about their raising funds for the PC version on indiegogo.com. Do they want to hide it or something?
One of the first things on the campaign is:
>By default we intend to release this game on Windows, Mac and Linux. We are also very interested in exploring the possibility of a console release later in development.
The WiiU thing popped out of "we would like this maybe" and is entirely just poor reporting that ended up being spread first.

>>12913426
Ok for the wii U. But what I meant is that it's like they avoid discussing with ZUN about the crowd funding subject. Crowd funding doesn't really sound to me as something he would accept easily.

>>12913439
I agree, but not because it's against ZUN's guidelines or anything, but rather because explicit external funding is pretty much against doujin culture altogether.

>>12913538
Kinda this, also I find the first perks pretty disgusting.

>>12913538
I'd argue that doing something that's both for-profit and against doujin culture already suffices to break the guidelines.

>>12913592
It isn't for-profit, as far as I can tell.

>>12913599
Come on, you know what I meant, don't go "they're not in it for the money" on me. Perhaps, but the point is, they're getting money. By selling a (promise of a) game. Outside of doujin channels.

>>12913599
Yeah, and the guy advertising his other crappy games he made from time to time inside his videos isn't for profit either.

>>12911352
>this has overstepped the boundary of doujin works

>>12913794
I've always looked at scamstarter and its brood with a dirty eye. Something about it just feels so filthy, exploitative and corrupt.

>>12913802
What has that got to do with me and Reimu laughing?

But you are right. "Gimme cash, I'll make you something in a years time" is how lots of dodgy or low quality things start.

why are these americans still trying to absorb money with these crowdfunding touhou scams, the last one with the card game didn't worked either

>>12913838
Because they can, I guess. Have you ever heard of the guy who scored tens of thousands off of... what was it? Potato salad? I don't recall, but it's something similarly trivial.

>>12913851
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/324283889/potato-salad
Hue

>>12913857
Yeah, there it is. Fucking disgusting.

Hope the project gets shut down.

>nip indie devs make touhou fan games all they want and Zun says nothing about them
>gaijins try to do the same and Zun just says "No."
So Zun was just another xenophobic nip faggot after all eh.

>>12913857
Holy shit, I thought people who backed up projects on kickstarter had at least the excuse of receiving the goods before everyone else, but with this project we have really reached a whole new level of stupidity.

So any updates on this?

>>12913939
Difference between campaigning for funds and producing a game and selling it.

>>12913857
That's hilarious.

>>12913939
>using kikestarter
>le 3.3 million man

>>12913944
Nothing from what I can see. One of the developers only told ZUN to contact him by mail on twitter. I guess they are discussing privately.
It somehow bothers me a bit that he's asking ZUN to contact him when clearly they are the ones who should initiate contact.

Also there is this guy who directly addressed the issue to ZUN. In english however: https://twitter.com/EirinYagokoro/status/555665268936962048

>>12913810
A golden rule is to never pay anyone who's going to mess with your house before he actually finishes his job.

I guess this can apply to videogames too.

ZUN's additional derivative work guidlines posted a few years ago basically say "do not sell things to overseas people" (among all other things) but that's sort of been changing with ZUN even working on English translations himself.

>>12914239
>ZUN's additional derivative work guidlines posted a few years ago basically say "do not sell things to overseas people"

Care to quote? I've never seen something among those lines.

>>12914278
Not him but here's the link.
http://www.geocities.co.jp/Playtown-Yoyo/1736/t-081.html

>>12914239
>do not sell things to overseas people

What an asshole.

>>12914239
>"do not sell things to overseas people"

I visit 4chan daily and I don't think I've seen words being distorted so badly in a long while.

>>12914239
>>12914319
I don't see anything about a foreign policy at all.

Isn't because Overseas people distribute doujins by pirating them?

>>12914278
Pretty sure he meant porn by that line.

>>12914239
No, it's that he doesn't want people to sell Touhou porn. It's okay to sell sfw Touhou merchandize though.

>>12914330
how could you blame him honestly

>>12914544
He only banned porn that is "extremely inappropriate given societal norms." Nothing vanilla would ever qualify, and given the state of Japanese erotic media, probably a ton that isn't is still safe. (And even if you manage to cross those boundaries it's not enforced anyway).

>>12914278
He said that goods should be confined to traditional doujin distribution channels (specifically excluding overseas-targeted download sites), and none of those point overseas, so... it's kind of true in a de facto sense? (Well, w-canvas ships overseas, but Toranoana and Melonbooks a shit).

at the very least they could have not put the name "smash bros" in it

>>12913969
This is a really nice Yagokoro Eirin roleplay account.

>>12915016
And seeing how even harmless fetishes are being banned overseas, maybe his caution is not without merit.

My example is illegal in Britain, for example.

This game looks like shit anyway

>>12915050
If you're a fighting gamer you'd be begging for this, it looks like the first decent game since KoFXIII.

>>12915049
s-spats

>>12915057
No.

>>12915120
If you ask nicely, maybe Nagatoro-san will let you smell her used cpats.

>>12911068
I don't get the deal with smash.
The game is supposed to be a casual chaos fest full of items and stuff to have fun with but people keep trying to turn it into a generic fighting game by changing the physics and removing items.
Just play a real fighting game at this point.

>>12915029
>really nice
>roleplay account

Please be sarcasm.

>>12915160
Smash is about having a lot of ways to play it. There's tons of different game modes, and then there's a ton of different settings and stuff, not to mention just coming up with agreed rules. Looking down on people who have fun playing competitively is just as dumb as looking down on people who have fun playing with items on max.

>>12915057
>Begging for a game that has has crappy music, ugly character models, no demo out yet to see if its even balanced
I bet you pre-order games too.

>>12915016
>He only banned porn that is "extremely inappropriate given societal norms."

That's fucking hilarious given that one of spriters for HM made 2hu toddlercon and lolicon art with tentacles and grotesque stomach inflation. And I think some scat too.

What was even the point of that guideline? Did ZUN just read some guro/scat/loli rape doujin and get butthurt?

>>12915947
Probably CYA in the unlikely event that it ever becomes a thing.

>>12915947
>>12915016
What even counts as "extremely inappropriate"? Because I've seen some shit.

>>12915362
https://twitter.com/EirinYagokoro/status/555907388964737026

>>12916007
I smiled. Late 90s internet sure was different.

>>12916007
What is wrong with these people.

>>12913939
>muh xenophobia
Go kill yourself, faggot.

>>12916007
>Mine is much longer and thicker though.
Oh my.

>>12916128
the book that bulge was from is quite nice.

>>12915143
please
please
l
e
a
s
e

>>12911074
>I'm not a weeb
>posting on 4chan
>posting in jp
Yes, you are.

>>12916207
I hope he makes another Yuuka book someday.

It's not shut down. Meaning ZUN doesn't care. Meaning everyone raising a shit has a worthless opinion.

Is the campaign page only displaying in moonspeak for anyone else? Did Saijee go and break something?

>>12916876
Wall of text apologizing to ZUN.

Still hoping this gets taken down. It's gross how they're still proceeding with this project.

As long the guy makes the game first and asks the money later I'm fine. But the way the project is progressing is disgusting, look at those perks for fucks sake. Pay2vote? Not even fascism was so fucked up.

>>12911352
The model design looks like it was made for porn.

Why do you need money to make a game?
You already have everything necessary to make them. What a bunch of kikes looking for a quick pay day.

We assume crowdfunding is bad. But what do you think ZUN would think about it?

>>12915947
I personally think that guideline regarding porn is there but the enforcement is loose. Just like consent between 30's guy with a high schooler.

I think...

>>12917290
It's perfectly clear what he thinks about it, considering what he said now and what happened the last time someone tried to make a kickstarter for Touhou goods.

>>12917292
The guideline regarding porn is just ZUN's way of saying "it's officially not my fault if you do something that turns out to be illegal".

>>12916996
>Pay2vote? Not even fascism was so fucked up.

People would just make more accounts to do it anyway. At least this way, FSS won't have to go through a dozen vote e-mails from the same person (not a hypothetical, someone did already buy 13 votes). And I'd guess it helps them raise a little more money, with the ease of buying more votes probably outweighing the $1 "discount."

https://twitter.com/SaijeeHiguchi/status/556256537724076032

ZUN's getting taken out to task.

Buckle up boys, we're in for a ride.

>>12919807
That's some darn painful English. I don't think either of them realised that they're both Japanese.

>>12919901
>https://twitter.com/SaijeeHiguchi/status/556256537724076032

One of them isn't, he's just so cool that he posts on the Internet with a Japanese name.

https://twitter.com/digifacture/status/556304771531821056

Watching this Saijee guy dig himself deeper and deeper into a hole is amazing. Japanese Touhou fans turning against Western ones because of Melee tourney players would be just too perfect.

>>12919923
Dude's a nisei, posting with his given name. Apparently it's 'Seiji' spelt funny because his father didn't know how to romanise it.

>>12919942
That guy's point is pretty valid. Crowdfunding is a fucking cancer.

>>12913857
You can just sell drugs, buy prepaid visas with the cash, and then donate to yourself in kickstarter to launder your money.
Pretty sure this is a similar fuckery.

>>12913939
Who cares, I wouldnt want nogs or gooks using my stuff either. What I dont understand is why they even need ZUN's approval. Whats he gonna do? He lives in Japan.

>>12919807
I like how he is dodging the main issue of using crowdfunding to fund his game and instead just crying over some stupid bullshit.

>>12919966
He could make a big deal about it and crush their reputation.
He could also sue.

>>12919984
>ZUN walks into American courts
>gets arrested for developing pedophile games
I'd love to see that happen. Then Kankolle will finally dominate /jp/.

Our weak touhous beg to be dominated and posted out of existance by big powerful kankolles. 2hus just cant compete. Maybe that is why 2hu boys are SO jealous of kankole men.

Can anyone bother translating what it says?

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/touhou-super-smash-battles#home

This is wild ride, can someone explain in 2 sentences why there is all this drama over this unofficial 2hu game that doesnt even look that good.

>>12920012
I can do it in one: Zun doesn't want a 2u fangame kickstarter.

>>12920002
>sold out
>$2100 US
wtf are people really donating that much.

What happens when the game gets shut down? do they return the money?

>>12920025
It bothers me the most that people donate thousands to get some Alternate Universe MLP cross over or something.

>>12920012
Need money to make game have a lot of content to be developed in a years time, but DOUJIN rules say no to crowdfunding.

>>12920025
They don't charge you until the campaign is over. At least I think so, not entirely sure how Indiegogo differs from Kickstarter. However, unlike Kickstarter, with the Flexible Funding shit they get all the pledged money whether or not they reach the goal.

>>12920022
>>12920039
Thanks for the summary. I wish ZUN would just tell them to shut down if he doesnt want the game, dosnt he have copyright on the characters anyways.

I think crowdfunding works in theory, but I have seen terrible examples of money being wasted on dumb projects; potato salad, paying off someones debt, open-source dildos

>>12920057
>open-source dildos
Demand link.

>>12920060

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-mod-multivibrating-open-source-dildo

>>12919807
ZUN should at least clarify for foreigners what's ok, since the gist seems to be "keep it noncommercial", but he's explicit about staying within the games' distribution channels. It seems like printing and selling from your home/website would be ok but who knows. Or if that's ok, if doing it digitally (again from your own site, not a central shop) is ok.

Yonjin is right at least, the idea of "wah I need thousands of dollars to make my fangame" is bullshit. So funny to see people like this getting buried. Western devs just can't fucking be cool, not even Japanese ones.

>>12920063

I don't understand how a company that has a private fucking jet doesn't have 50k to develop a product they will presumably profit on.

>>12920083
It's called scam.

Anything on indiegogo is.

the dude is an autist nearing ullila status
he could probably make the game, but the intricacies of the japanese social world will envelop and destroy him

>>12920069
>if doing it digitally (again from your own site
The Touhouvania guys got shut down for selling their game to gaijins through their own site.

>>12920036
>people donate thousands to get some Alternate Universe MLP cross over

>>12920036
>>12920327
It's to confirm their top 2hu. Really.

>>12920039
>DOUJIN rules say no to crowdfunding.
This is ZUN's policy and not a law, right?
Damn good policy

>>12920217
Wow, my heart sank for a moment when I went to check out Ulillillia's videos (it's been a while) and I saw "Goodbye, YouTube". That guy is a master NEET. Love listening to his voice almost as much as the TempleOS guy.

Anyway, let's just be glad it isn't Ntelliware trying to make a 2hu game on our behalf.

>>12920300
That's annoying. You'd think his problem would be with digital sales if anything. I wonder if hand mailing would still be ok. Pigmhall does that, and his older DVDs are packed with Touhous.

>>12920371
Too bad it's impossible to download from dailymotion.

>>12920419
If livestreamer works, you can save it.

>>12920412
brb tweeting zun

>>12920357
No, doujin culture dissents external funding in general. It's supposed to be something you do on your own watch and dime.

>>12913941
>>12911346
>>12917045
>>12913963
Agreeing with all these posts, Kickstarter, indiegogo, and all other similar scam sites are all cancer and need to fuck off.

>>12920567
But they never will because people are retarded.
Good luck trying to complain in front of a normie as well.

>>12920357
dojin = self-publish
crowd publish is not self

>>12920300
That's retarded. So how are we supposed to get a legal copy of the game if they get shut down for selling it to us?

>>12920300
What? That's fucking not true.
Their site and the shop is still up. You can register and buy touhouvania from any country.
http://aja-games.com/EC/products/detail.php?product_id=4

>>12920567
I wish the opposite. I wish I was able to use it to get money but everyone seems to do all this show off shit I could never do.

>>12921117
You can't even enter a non-Japanese address on the membership form.

>>12921117
You can also buy DDC and that Remilia Ys clone on playism from outside of Japan.

Don't hurt me. I want to ask.

What differentiate Doujin and Indies?

>>12921489
>>/jp/thread/S12725651#p12729271

>>12921489
from The Untold History of Japanese Game Developers

>JS: Do you consider yourself doujin or indie? Is there a difference?

>ZUN: I’m getting asked that a lot recently. I would say that indies, the indie boom if you will, came from the West. A few years ago, I started hearing stories about how popular indie games were becoming in the West. And I thought to myself that the content of indie and doujin games is quite similar. They’re similar, but I feel that… I feel that doujin games are a broader category. Doujin encompasses a lot of non-commercial activity, whereas I believe that indies need to succeed. I feel that indie developers, their dream is to make it their job. They aim at being a game developer, while doujin developers, if no one ever buys their game, or never plays their game, maybe they won’t really care?

>>12921489
>>12921708
cont.
>A word from expert Matt Fitsko

>The line between indie and doujin is blurring in Japan, but there’s still a recognizable distinction between indie games, which are treated as a relatively new phenomenon mostly occurring in the West, and the traditional doujin scene, which has been continuously churning behind the scenes since the 1970s. Indies are seen as an exciting new commercial phenomenon, a reaction to overstuffed AAA game development, and a harkening back to small and medium-sized development studios that have been disappearing for the last decade. This manner of thinking leads Inafune to say that the original Mega Man games were essentially “indie” games, for example. They were created in a small-scale, creativity-first development environment that rarely exists today. On the other hand, doujin suggests a truly amateur style of creative activity (in the literal sense of amateur; “for the love of the art”), one that is closer to the label “fandom” in English. Doujin material is sold among fans, but in tiny quantities, and rarely in the expectation of actual profit (according to a 2010 report, only around 10% of doujin creators make over 20'000 yen (~$2'000) in profit by selling goods at Comiket, while about 70% actually lose money). Success and recognition is not really a factor, and the doujin games that have broken out to mainstream success (Higurashi, Corpse Party, Yatagarasu) are the rarest exceptions.

>>12921708
>>12921715
So indie is more about making it big, and doujin is more about doing it for its own sake, regardless of success? That sounds about right.

>>12919998

SHUT THE FUCK UP NIGGER.

>>12921708
>>12921715
I wanted to say that's some kind of aggressive attidute ZUN has but then I noticed most of indie games tend to become funding projects with various content removed because of "budget limit" and with several alpha/beta versions you have to pay to access.

>>12920025
So they can get their favourite hats in the game.

Fuck ZUN, let us play the damn game

>>12921896
Okay

http://fromsoysauce.com/TOUHOU%20SMASH%20DEMO%20V%200.5%20%5BFROM%20SOY%20SAUCE%5D.zip

>>12921896
Fuck you, ZUN's word is law

Wait did Zun shut down this shitty game? I just thought this thread would be deleted and I finally noticed it is still up.

No it's pretty much more like FromSoysause is like fuck ZUN's policies, they're outdated we're going to continue anyways. And now they released the demo.

And this series of tweets come from a conversation with a man named Yonjin who happens to be affiliated with doujin services and knows ZUN to a good degree and even expressed to Saijee to read and respect ZUN's rules (which he's clearly not doing)

>>12922103
>If you're still hoping for the crowdfunding to go on,perhaps you better start with why you think it was needed to begin with.
rekt

This is all going to end in tears. I can't wait for westerners to be fucking hated by every japanese touhou fan even more than we already are.

>>12922103
>who happens to be affiliated with doujin services and knows ZUN to a good degree
How can you know it? To me he looks like a typical retarded 'knight' protecting something he should not care about. If he knew ZUN he would already asked him to give a final verdict about this stupid game.

The last reply here >>12922091 is right. He's not ZUN. ZUN just need to clearly state that this crowdfunding is not allowed (just like it was with that card game) and end this stupid discussion.

>>12922103
>>12922091
This guy is disgusting. I hope Zun sues his ass for every penny he owns or something. His arguments are on the same level of a third grader writing their first paper for school.

>>12922119
>ZUN just need to clearly state that this crowdfunding is not allowed (just like it was with that card game) and end this stupid discussion.

I'm not even sure that would work, seems he feels entitled to make his game because "the rules aren't fair". At least the card game people didn't try and argue.

Also I thought ZUN was aware of this project?

Really painful to watch this guy forcing the japanese person to speak a language they clearly don't understand.

>>12922119
Look dude no matter who he is everyone knows ZUN doesn't like crowdfunding, if the maker doesn't want to listen to the guy and follow ZUN's guidelines then he isn't a true fan and is just in for the money which totally goes against everything doujin.

>>12922091
>>12922103
That Saijee guy is really horrible. He really needs to think of a reason why he needed crowdfunding for his project and needs to show that ZUN approves of this.

>>12922132
>seems he feels entitled to make his game

Using someone else's copyright?
Fuck that guy.

>>12922157
Yeah, the guy seems like a total jackass. Has he even laid out exactly what the money is needed for?

>>12922132
Though ZUN will never sue them, his explicit prohibit still has way too many implications. Those devs won't have other choice but to take campaign down.

>>12922164
I'm just worried that this guy is a brazen enough asshole to just continue on with it regardless. I guess it's possible IGG could be forced to take it down if ZUN presses the issue, but that site has always seemed somewhat shady to me, even compared to Kickstarter.

>>12922138
He reeks of modern day liberal who feels entitled to everything in the world because it makes them feel like Robin hood. What a nerd. I know I'm boycotting whatever shit this turns out to be.

I tried the game and it seems to be pretty damn meh. Not that I was expecting much better.

>>12922164
>Those devs won't have other choice but to take campaign down.

Saijee seems incredibly fucking bull-headed. If the campaign comes down, it won't be because FSS did so willingly.

This really stinks, because even if the game were to turn out good, this whole mess is gonna leave it smelling rotten regardless.

https://www.indiegogo.com/about/terms
>DMCA Complaints

This needs to go down.

>>12922091
>>12922103
I love how the Soysauce guy responses to Yonjin with unrelated shit all the time. Though I guess he's just pretending to be retarded so he can try and get his way.

>>12922194
>must provide the following information in writing:
>a physical or electronic signature of a person authorized to act on behalf of the owner of an exclusive right that is allegedly infringed.
Good luck

Saijee Higuchi.

A lot of people are supporting you and your team. Us here can't help much, but がんばって！Maybe @korindo will reply at one point

Gee, no shit nips hate us.
Everytime they start giving us their hand we eat their fucking arm.

>>12922305
>Maybe @korindo will reply at one point

Yeah, with a lawsuit hopefully.

What if ZUN us not giving a definite yes or no answer because he secretly enjoys watching the conflict and thinks it is funny

>>12922345
That's probably the case. ZUN is such a troll

http://www.geocities.co.jp/Playtown-Yoyo/1736/t-081-2.html

８．同人サークル以外の企業による二次創作、また二次創作作品を同人ショ
　　　ップ以外の一般流通で配布したい場合は、必ず私の許可を取るようにお
　　　願い致します。

A crowdfunding campaign through indiegogo is DEFINITELY not a "typical doujin circle" style release. They needed to get Zun's permission beforehand.

If we can't help get this shit shut down then the western fanbase truly is cancerous. I know we're all a bunch of pirates anyway but at least we have the decency not to disrespect ZUN and violate his guidelines for some fucking shekels via crowdfunding. People from all sorts of countries release touhou shit at comike. None of them needed kikestarter, there's nothing stopping this faggot from making his shifty game and releasing it like everyone else does except for greed.

>>12922354
Blame the braindead retards who already paid $20k for this shit.

>>12922345
Because this a nuisance he hopes it will get resolved with common sense without any fight.

You know, like when you're trying to get asleep and a fucking mosquito appears out of nowhere but you're already in the perfect position so you just hope it will go away.

>>12922395
Why didn't he reply directly then? Just say "no" and everything is resolved.

>>12922399
Maybe he wants to resolve it in a way (community consensus? or something?) that won't lead to eternal butthurt in the autist-in-chief.

>>12922413
ZUN just doesn't know about crowdfunding campaign. And japs clearly don't care enough about it to spam his twitter.

All this "making western community look bad" exists only in the heads of insecure /jp/ faggots.

>>12922399
There's already a precedent of crowdfunding not being allowed. He shouldn't have to do anything. If this was Japan, negative fan reaction would take care of this on it's own. But my guess is that he will take action if this goes on.

>>12922427
Well to be fair, even if crowdfunding isn't stated in the guidelines, they aren't in there and not following them is a very good way to make yourself look bad. You know with not respecting the creator's wishes and whatnot. It kinda shows that you just wanted money rather than making something that the fans would enjoy, get what I'm saying?

The fact that the other crowdfunded project got taken down should have been a good enough sign to not mix Touhou doujin goods with that sort of thing.

This shit is why a doujin scene would never work in the west. This shit is why western companies shut down every creative fan activity. They have to, if they didn't, you'd soon have dozens of retards like these feeling entitled to someone else's IP. (I still can't believe they actually demanded ZUN changes his guidelines just for them. Who do they think they are?)

>>12922494
they don't seem to understand that the whole point of the doujin scene is that it's NOT about making money.

it literally would not be allowed to exist if the fans were running around trying to get their doujinshi in major bookstores, or crowdfunding their doujin games and trying to publish them on major consoles.

>>12922463
>get what I'm saying?
Yes, that you're an idiot.

I'm tired of people here repeating the same thing over and over.

>>12922427
>>12922532
Rude!

>>12922526
I don't even think the WiiU release would even be a problem for ZUN, since he lately gave permission to other developer to put their games on the PS4 indie zone.

It's just the crowfunding thing that's higly obnoxious.

>>12922581
It might be a problem for Nintendo though since it's just blatantly Smash Bros.

>>12922581
I'm not too sure about why ZUN let those games be on PS4, probably though so they can reach more people. The thing is, the idea behind doujin is not to make money but just making things because you like doing it. Only few circles are so popular that they make money and you can still be happy when you come out even. Printing doujinshi, having your game/album pressed on a CD all costs money, so they sell them to barely cover their costs. It's probably also in small badges because japanese love exclusive things.
I've seen a japanese circle sell stuff at a german con, I've seen a touhou metal band having concerts here and sell their stuff (they also have an online shop), so that must be okay. But when you are whining you have no way to sell it, your whole thinking is wrong. You can sell it at cons or probably even sell physical copies via mail. If you just want to get it out to people, you could always put it up for download for free. You don't do it for money and digital download doesn't cost you a thing.

>>12922581
Yeah, well, ZUN giving permission for someone to do something does not mean everyone else is automatically granted a permission to do something similar.

Especially when he has publicly available guidelines that forbid it.

I am quite excited about this though, and am very tempted to put 1600 to get Tewi in. I am a little annoyed that the price goes up for each character. Why is that? Also, do we get any say on moveset design and other parts of the character we get in? I think we should and would help me justify putting my favorite character in.

About ZUN's guidelines.
There's no specific mention about the crowdfunding in his guideline. What we know from the lessons of GS System is the vague mention that "crowdfunding could be under the category of investment = starting a business, so it needs a license". This isn't from ZUN's mouth or blog, so there was really nothing that could stop this from happening again.

For us, crowdfunding is a legit way for individuals who have really good ideas and want to make a good indie, but want to avoid all the corporate bullshit (obviously, Japanese Touhou fans + ZUN doesn't think the same way). ZUN really needs to revise his guideline up-to-date in the forms of setting rules for what's happening on 2015. Namely from what I think:

1. Policy in regards to Crowdfunding to start Touhou derivative works
1b. Policy in regards to "investment", where fans will pre-purchase the derivative works for the artist to obtain the necessary equipments so that when the work is finished, the distribution will be free for the fans who have pre-purchased the work.
2. Policy in regards to monetizing videos containing Touhou derivative works
3. Policy in regards to opening an Online Touhou derivative convention

>>12923001
1. All character perks are sold out >>12920025
2. There is 99% chance this game is going to be taken down
3. And finally why would you spend so much money on the worst character possible?

>>12922581
>lately gave permission to other developer to put their games on the PS4 indie zone
This is a very particular scenario where certain select doujin circles partner with DNA to publish the games. This is -not- just anyone being able to plop their games on some platform.

>>12922119
>To me he looks like a typical retarded 'knight' protecting something he should not care about
Yonjin has been an organizer and web dev for doujin events for around a decade.
>ZUN just need to clearly state that this crowdfunding is not allowed (just like it was with that card game)
1) Anyone even vaguely familiar with the doujin scene knows requesting external funding is a no-go.
2) Regardless, going ahead with the campaign violated the derivative guidelines by itself.
3) Garden of Souls was taken down voluntarily after the developers understood that using crowdfunding sites to distribute works is against policy and that crowdfunding in general is not allowed. They talked with ZUN and mutually agreed it wouldn't work.

>>12923001

Tewi's already in, she was the second Maiden perk bought. There aren't any Maiden slots available right now anyway.

>>12923012
None of this is necessary. This is pretty basic stuff, and at best it might warrant a movement on OUR side to educate people on doujin culture. "No external funding, do the work yourself for the love of your work" is a basic rule. It's a hobby.

>For us, crowdfunding is a legit way for individuals who have really good ideas and want to make a good indie, but want to avoid all the corporate bullshit
This isn't doujin. This stance is great, sure, but then don't go trying to work on top of explicitly doujin material. If you don't want to comply then it isn't difficult to just not use Touhou as a base.

>>12923032
>developers understood that using crowdfunding sites to distribute works is against policy
No, the reason they started the campaign was because they didn't think so. Just like Smash devs.
>They talked with ZUN and mutually agreed it wouldn't work.
Mutually agreed, right. ZUN just told them crowdfunding is not allowed and they took campaign down, simple as that.

You don't need to explain doujin concepts to me. But it's also pointless to explain them to Smash devs. It's obvious they have their own understanding of this term and they will continue arguing until ZUN himself gives them a 'NO'.

>american crowdfunding cash grabber getting shut down
>a problem

Everything was fine and I was supporting the project all the way through until the developer decided to put the whole thing on indiegogo. It just shows that the game isn't made out of passion, but for the sake of profit. When it comes to fangames there are some notable exceptions like Streets of Rage Remake where it's clearly a labor of love, but this has shady business written all over it. Not only that, those twitter conversations he's having are leaving a bad mark on the entire western community. Touhouwiki has an entire page dedicated to the terms of use that ZUN put out and the developer should have familiarized himself with it before he decided to crowdfund the game for no reason(well the reasons are known).

>>12923142
>the developer should have familiarized himself with it before he decided to crowdfund the game for no reason

I'm pretty sure he is familiar with them, he just doesn't seem to fucking care. Him whining about "it's not fair" and shit makes him look like an entitled baby.

I can't wait until I can finally play Touhou on Steam. The fanbase will explode, and ZUN will realize the error of his ways.

>>12923114
The problem is that they're not getting shut down.
Or at least not as of yet.

>>12923088
Read what I said again. They took it down AFTER they understood. They didn't when they started, but once they got into communication they realized it was against the rules. One key difference is that FSS asserts that they're very familiar with the derivative guidelines. Clearly that isn't the case, but they're hiding from criticism at this point.
>Mutually agreed, right. ZUN just told them crowdfunding is not allowed and they took campaign down, simple as that.
It's an agreement even if they didn't like the results, and even before they got an answer from ZUN (which they had to stop due to the language barrier) they said they intended to respect whatever his decision was.

>>12923163
this is just them being money grabbing kikes

>>12923154
>makes him look like an entitled baby

welcome to the western touhou fandom

>>12923163
I wish ZUN would tell him to fuck off.

>>12923178
This.
Fuck that guy.

>>12923012
>crowdfunding is a legit way for individuals who have really good ideas

>>12923168
>they intended to respect whatever his decision was

And that's the big difference between that project and these scumbags.

>>12923012
kike pls go

>>12911099
No, he's still teasing the WiiU port in order to get donations. This was posted yesterday.

>>12923185
FSS also said previously that they intend to respect ZUN's decision, but they're being right cunts by seemingly ignoring literally everyone else but ZUN at this point.

>>12923163
>>12923191
This shit needs to burn.

>>12923163
>>12923191
>COME ON GOYS, DON'T YOU WANT SMASH TOUHOU ON WII-U/STEAM?! SEND IN THOSE SHEKELS!

What do the other communities think?

>>12923224
/v/ is pissed. Wheelchan /jp/ is sucking the dev's dick.

>>12923240
The fuck is wheelchan

Someone managed to contact Yonjin on Twitter and explained the current situation regarding TSB controversy. Here's the conversation and it's translation :

> Part 1

Yonjin
この件については昨日知ったぐらいですね
I only learned about this [the controversy about Touhou Smash] yesterday.

そして彼と何回かリプライの応酬をしたぐらいです
All I've done [regarding this matter] is exchange a few emails with him.

同人界隈には、定期的に原作の権利を侵害をするような事件がたまにあります。 なのであまり珍しくはないとも感じます。
Cases involving infringement of rights of the original works do happen regularly in the doujin world, so I don't feel that this is a particularly special case.

ただ今回は海外の、いち同人ファンの暴走と見るべきか、東方の同人の権利について無知なファンが引き起こした事件なのか、権利意識の低さによる海賊行為なのか、判断がまだつかないところです。
But I'm still unsure how I should view the present case: as a case of a doujin fan running amok, as an incident caused by a fan who doesn't understand what is allowed in Touhou doujin, or as an act of piracy resulting from a lack of respect for intellectual property.

Me
こういう件も前にあったんですか？日本にでも？
Were there cases like this before, even in Japan?

Yonjin
いくらでもあります。
Oh sure, plenty.

東方ガイドラインにはアニメ制作を禁じているにも関わらず、勝手に公式を名乗ってアニメを販売しようとして、最終的に中止になったり
Someone once tried to make and sell an anime as an official work of Touhou, even though the Touhou guideline forbids the production of anime. This was canceled in the end.

>>12923240
>4x4chan is ok with this

You can't be serious.

>>12923240
/v/ doesnt deserve 2hus.

>>12923240
I can't believe the day has finally come where 4chan /jp/ and Shrinemaiden have to team up against the retards.

>>12923240
>4+4chan is ok with this

You can't be serious.

>>12923244

>Part 2

東方Projectの称号を同人ショップが乗っ取ろうとしたり
[Yonjin presumably meant 商号 here.]
One doujin shop tried to claim the Touhou Project trademark.

他にも勝手に"公式"を名乗ろうとする人達は居て、その都度ZUNやファンが対応しました。
There have been others who claimed to be official without any permission, and each time, ZUN or the fans responded accordingly.

今回の件も、ある種それに似た行為として捉える事ができます。
Touhou Smash can also be seen as a similar case.

そもそも、同人とは本来、著作権的に非合法と合法の中間に位置する行為です。
First of all, doujin is something that stands somewhere in between legality and illegality in terms of copyright.

東方Projectの繁栄は、その曖昧な同人活動に対して、東方ガイドラインという明確な指標を示すことで、同人作品を合法かつ公正に認める事が画期的でした。
[The relation among the phrases here is a bit unclear. What I've given is my best guess.]
The Touhou Project was revolutionary in that it recognized doujin works both legally and justly by providing a clear guideline, the Touhou guideline, for this greyzone that is doujin. This is what allowed the Touhou Project to thrive.

今回の事件は東方ガイドラインを破る行為で、これは東方同人コミュニティとして拒絶されるべき行為です。
The present case is a violation of the Touhou guideline. This is an action that ought to be rejected by the Touhou doujin community.

>>12923250

> Part 3

また、クラウドファンディングを利用して資本を集めることは、そもそも『同人活動ではない』とみなされます。 それは商業活動であり、つまり著作権侵害の海賊行為とみなされます。
Also, crowdfunding is considered to be outside the scope of doujin activities. It's a commercial activity, hence an infringement of copyright and an act of piracy.

Me
ええ、それはよく聞く話です。だから同人に関わる”犯罪”などどうやるべきもよくわからない。 でもそれは海外だけの話と思ったな。まさか日本にもそんなにあるとはなあ
Yes, I hear that often. [I can't really understand monhan's Japanese here.] But I thought that was only overseas. I had no idea it also happened in Japan.

Yonjin
ガイドラインを守る限り、同人活動は合法です。 しかし日本にも利益のためにガイドラインを蔑ろにする人は出てきます。
Doujin activities are legal as long as they follow the guideline. But even in Japan, there are those who ignore it for profit.

また、クラウドファンディングを利用して資本を集めることは、そもそも『同人活動ではない』とみなされます。 それは商業活動であり、つまり著作権侵害の海賊行為とみなされます。
[Same line as before]

Me
では，クラウドファンディング以外でもその権利のことも問題ですか？ 他にまだまだいけない事あるんですか？
[Not quite sure what monhan means by その権利]
How about issues besides crowdfunding? Are there other things that are problematic here?

>>12923240
>4+4chan is ok with this

You can't be serious

>>12923163
I dont want the 'fanbase' to explode becasue then shit is gonna get all casual and normies will just ruin everything. Becasue its not an indie game anymore if it is mainstream, also playing indie games on Steam is a very mainstream thing to do.

>>12923253

>Part 4

Yonjin
東方ガイドライン違反
・同人文化や東方Projectを知らない人も利用する場(Indiegogo)にZUNの許可なく露出させた。 これはクラウドファンディングでないサービスでも批難されます。
・Indiegogoのページ、ZUNのクレジットが明記されていない。 彼は「以前は表示をされていた」「宣伝動画の途中に触れている」とツィートしていましたが、誰の目に見てすぐにわかるようでなければガイドライン違反です。
・また現時点においては同人作品のダウンロード販売は認められていません。 これについては、今の状況に合わせてガイドラインを更新してもいいと思いますが、だからといってガイドラインを破る行為は同人活動から逸脱します。
Violations of the Touhou guideline:
* They exposed the Touhou Project without ZUN's permission in a forum (Indiegogo) that is also used by people who are unfamiliar with the doujin culture or the Touhou Project. This is frowned upon even for services other than crowdfunding. [TL note: This last line should be stronger.]
* The Indiegogo page does not clearly credit ZUN. Saijee tweeted earlier that it used to be shown and that he mentioned it in the trailer, but if it's not obvious to anyone who visits, it's against the guideline.
* Also, download sales of doujin works is currently not permitted. I do think that the guideline could perhaps use an update given the situation today, but any action violating the guideline still takes one outside the scope of doujin.

>>12923257

>Part 5

海外に同人ショップを構えたり利用するのが難しかったり、同人イベントを開催したり参加したりするのが難しい現状は想像できます。 しかしガイドラインについて相談する前に違反してしまえば対話は不可能です。
I can see it may be difficult overseas to set up or use a doujin shop, or to hold or participate in doujin events. But if you violate the guideline without any prior consultation, there's no possibility for a discussion.

もっともダウンロード販売は実際にやってる人もいるので、曖昧かつグレーではあります。しかしガイドライン違反で褒められることではありません
Of course, there are people who offer download sales, so that is a greyzone. But no one will praise you for a guideline violation.

なので問題点を整理すると
・クラウドファンディングで出資を集めた。(同人活動は非営利が前提)
・同人や東方を知らない人達の集まる場に同人作品を出した。(ガイドライン違反)
・現時点で認められないダウンロード販売を公言した。(ガイドライン違反) この3つでしょうか
To summarize the problems:
* They used crowdfunding. (Non-commercial is a given for doujin activities)
* They put out a doujin work where there are people who aren't familiar with doujin or Touhou. (guideline violation)
* Announced download sales, which is not currently allowed. (guideline violation) I would say these three.

Me
うむ，結構多いな。説明してありがとうYonjinさん。 返事が遅くと少なくってごめん。今もまだこの件について私たちの中で話しています。
That's more than I thought. Thank you for explaining, Yonjin. Sorry my replies are late and short. We're still discussing this case among ourselves.

>>12923259

>Part 6

Yonjin
悲しいことに、これらは同人活動や東方ガイドラインに対する無理解や不勉強が根本的な原因に思われます。 気づいて貰うと彼と会話しましたが、残念ながら失敗したようです。
Unfortunately, the problem seems to lie in their lack of understanding of doujin activities and the Touhou guideline. I talked to him hoping that he will realize this, but it seems I was unsuccessful.

おっと

取り急ぎ、多いですが今回の事件に対する自分の意見です
I know that was quite a lot, but that's my opinion on this matter.

ついでに話すと、今回の事件に対するひとつの解決策としては
1. Indiegogoを中止する
2. 東方ProjectのFANしかいないクローズな場で説明する
3. クローズな場でdonationwareとして無料で公開し募金を募る。
です
And I may as well mention: One solution to this case would be to
1. cancel Indiegogo,
2. provide an explanation in a non-public setting where there are only fans of the Touhou Project,
3. and offer it for free as a donation ware in a non-public setting.

Me
そういえば，Yonjinさん自身は東方の同人世界の中で，何者ですか？ 東方界隈が主な生息域っと書いたけど，正直まだわからない。失礼ならばごめんなさい
By the way, what is your position in the world of Touhou doujin? You wrote that you're mostly active in Touhou, but I honestly can't really tell. Sorry if this is a rude question.


Yonjin
自分はただの一人の東方ファンですよ。ZUNや黄昏の作品を買い、東方同人作品を買い、たまに同人作品のイベント用ページやサービスを作ったりします。かれこれ10年以上経ちますね
I'm just a Touhou fan. I buy ZUN and Tasogare's works and Touhou doujin works, and sometimes make websites for doujin event and services. I've been doing that for 10+ years now.

>>12923244
Do you know who this "someone" is and whether he's got any relation to the project? My guess is it would be one of the more active Shrinemaiden people but that's just a stab in the dark.

>>12923263

>Part 7

Me
ZUNさんと係ることがあるんですか？
Do you ever interact with ZUN?

Yonjin
ただのファンなのでイベントで顔を見るくらいで、係るという程はないですね
I'm just a fan, so I just see him at events. I don't really interact with him.

また基本的にZUNは個別にファンと関わることは極めて少ないです。 彼の監修する本や作品の出版社や、同人活動ではなく個人的な繋がりを尊重する人とも聞きます。
It's extremely rare for ZUN to interact with fans individually. I also hear that he's someone who values personal relations, such as with the publisher of the books and other works he oversees, more than doujin activities.

なのでいくらZUNに個人としてメールで連絡しようとしても、恐らく回答はないと思います。 企業として責任を明示して窓口に問い合わせるなら別でしょうけど
So no matter how much you try to contact him via email as an individual, I don't think you will get a reply. Of course, I imagine it's a different matter if you approach the appropriate contact as an actual business.

Me
勿論この事は彼らにきっちり伝えてやる。ZUNさんにまでこれ以上の迷惑かけたくないな。
I'll tell all of this very clearly to those guys. I don't want to trouble ZUN any further.

Yonjin
海外にも貴方のように同人文化について熱心に理解しようと努力する人が居るのは、東方Projectが海や国境を越えたことを感じてとても嬉しいです。
I'm very glad that there are people like you overseas who make a genuine effort to understand the doujin culture. It shows how the Touhou Project has spread across national borders.

>>12923256
The Western community is already trying to ruin everything. I'm glad this Saijee guy is making it look as cancerous as it is.

>>12923266

>Pat 8 (End)

彼らの行いは不幸な出来事ですが、こうして貴方と対話が出来たのは幸運です。
What they did was unfortunate, but I'm glad I was able to talk to you like this.

また彼らの行いが、東方Projectや同人の文化が正しく理解されるキッカケになることを願います。
And I hope that what they did will lead to a better understanding of the Touhou Project and the doujin culture.

長々と失礼しました
Sorry to have rambled on.

おそらく、悪意がなかったのは確かで、彼も東方ファンの一人なのだと思います。しかし無理解と不勉強が今回の事件を起こしたのだと思います。 失敗は仕方ないです、誰でもします。
I do believe that he meant no harm, and that he too is a fan of Touhou. I think what caused this case is his lack of effort to understand. But mistakes do happen. Everyone makes mistakes.

大事なのは同人活動や東方ガイドライン対する姿勢です。 もし彼らがこのまま姿勢を変えずに、東方ガイドラインを蔑ろにするのであれば、彼らは東方ファンから海賊行為をする犯罪者になります。 彼らが考えや姿勢を改めることを願います。
What matters is the attitude towards doujin activities and the Touhou guideline. If they don't change their attitude and continue to ignore the Touhou guideline, then they're criminals who pirate off of Touhou fans. I hope that they will change their attitude and way of thinking.

>>12923265

Just searched it. And yes, it's from Shrinemaiden

https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17884.msg1158072.html#msg1158072

>>12923256
>>12923268
Based on my perspective as a westerner i do feel that 'casualization' of specific interest does seem to happen to all groups of fans.

>>12923270
>If they don't change their attitude and continue to ignore the Touhou guideline, then they're criminals who pirate off of Touhou fans. I hope that they will change their attitude and way of thinking.

Thanks for that. Why am I not surprised that this cancer originated from shrinemaiden.

He seems like one of those autistic fucks that would relentlessly argue that his interpretation of the rules is correct despite pretty much fucking everybody agreeing that it isn't.

>>12923291
How is asking a Japanese about the subject cancer?

and people wonder why I hate bronies, anything those people touch turns to a shitstorm.
newage furfags.

>>12923297
The Yonjin guy or Saijee?

>>12923298
I misread the post and thought the game was made by someone from shrinemaiden, sorry. I'll go kill myself now out of this thread now.

>>12923305
What the hell are you on about?

>>12923266
So ZUN doesn't mingle with commoners, it seems.
But he doesn't have a problem acting all buddy-buddy with moot though.

>>12923344
Moot wouldnt even show /jp/ to ZUN, the home of the 2hus, is he ashamed or embarassed of jp?

>>12923344
moot is a celebrity, he runs "foreign 2ch."

>>12923291
>>12923307
I'm not sure where you're getting the idea of shrinemaiden game = shitstorm, but the regulars at the development section are generally people who are really familiar with doujin practices and constantly remind new people what isn't allowed.

>>12923344
More like people don't see a need to approach him on a personal level because they don't know him, but ZUN still prefers talking face-to-face than anything else. This isn't strange.

REAL doujin artists don't go on kickstarter to start a "give me $10k and I'll make a preggo, oppailoli, futa, guro, bestility, ntr, tp, yuri, ahegao, consensual, softcore, touhou doujin" campaign to get money before they actually have a finished product to sell at conventions.
Fuck those guys and everyone who supported their shit.

>>12923366
Speaking face to face is the best method, words on the computer get escalated fast

>>12923244
>Someone once tried to make and sell an anime as an official work of Touhou, even though the Touhou guideline forbids the production of anime. This was canceled in the end.
Which one was this?

>>12923250
>One doujin shop tried to claim the Touhou Project trademark.
This is White Canvas right?

>>12923440
>Which one was this?
Anime Tenchou X Touhou Project by Ufotable if I recalled correctly.

>>12923456
But didn't they manage to show it anyways? (Though privately and not in public)

>>12923486
It has been released but in a theater or the like privately and no one was allowed to record it in any way thus no one else has seen it.

>>12923486
Yeas, it has been released but in a theater or the like privately and no one was allowed to record it in any way thus no one else has seen it.

But once ZUN knew this was going to get commercialized, he shot it down pretty quickly.

>>12923486
Hence why they only showed it at a screening. I thought this was common knowledge given that people at the time were confused as to why they would make a big anime thing only to show it once or twice to a limited audience.

This guy making the game must gave been a spoiled brat as a child and gotten everything he wanted because with this ZUN policy situation it basically says he cant crowdfund but he is apparently above the rules of the guy who made the 2hus in the first place.

>>12923012
So what you're saying is they want to use Touhou characters as a base, and that the game has no worth beyond that base (else they'd just make the game instead of being hung up on being a derivative work), and they even need crowdfunding to actually make the game in the first place, and yet, somehow, they still feel entitled to some exception in the rules despite having no product, merit, or respect for the original work's creator's wishes?

Well that's not good at all is it?

We are currently of the concern that if we were to go for an anime art style it would cause a section of the hard core melee audience pass off playing this game immediately without giving it a chance.
This game is JUST AS MUCH of a game for the hard core melee scene as it is for Touhou fans.

>>12923531
I don't really think it's about being spoiled and stubborn. It really seems like they're just exploiting a fanbase for funding and are just trying to hold on to the indiegogo til they reap that cool $20,000

>>12923576
This is actually only one person's stance of the team. At least one other member prefers an anime-esque style, but this idea won out.

>>12923562
>they even need crowdfunding to actually make the game in the first place
They actually don't, and they've said quite a few times that they "intend to make it no matter what"; the funding is primarily to increase the scope (for some reason) and hire an external animator to do the most time-consuming part. So it's sort of worse.

>>12923576
This whole thing is just one big parody of doujin game

>>12923576
why even try to appeal to meleefags? they'll just want to play melee.

>>12923576
Why would anyone who gives a shit about playing Melee play this when they can just play the actual fucking game

This is capitalism at its finest

>>12923576
>hard core melee scene

I don't have a kek top enough for that.

Yeah, yeah, ZUN wants it to stop, but has anyone mentioned how Nintendo will react? Blatantly copying their game and then trying to potentially market it on commercial platforms like Steam and even Nintendo's own console?

ZUN is doing him a favor by nicely asking him to stop now before Nintendo fucks him raw with their legal team.

>>12923606
Yfw these guys get sued by nintendo and zun at the same time.
Otakus and weebs outside of japan will forever be despised an banned from partaking in the festivities

>>12923606
I don't think Nintendo owns any copyright to smash gameplay style(Digimon Rumble Arena and PASBR come to mind even if they aren't based on percent)

>>12923606
I think if they take the "smash" out of the title they should be fine. Nintendo doesn't own fighting games that rely on % or hitting the character outside the blast zone.

>>12923606
Sony already made a ripoff of smash with their own characters and they didn't get sued.

>>12923601
It exists. There's actually a ton of advanced techniques that can be done.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lwo_VBSfqWk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoKOyjbfZ9g

>>12923576
Is that why the models are so unappealing and have none of the charm the average touhou drawing has, let alone of zunart?
They feel kind of...soulless.

>>12923621
Just stop

>>12923625
did i top your keks too hard with the fact that melee has one of this biggest current competitive followings of any fighting game?

>>12923618
I would imagine there's some way Nintendo could sue them just for soliciting money for a game that is blatantly using the Smash Bros name. They're ripping it off so much that Nintendo could find something to sue them for if they cared enough.

>>12923620
Only because it was such a shit that they decided to let sony fuck itself. Which they went on to do astoundingly well.

Not that anon; but I still can't understand why Smash is hailed so widely gameplay wise. When as a fighter itself it isn't too amazing mechanically. Besides fan-base. That being said, I still acknowledge it.

>>12923600
"Muh capitalism"

This expression indicates a kikes confusion and lack of understanding. When confronted with something they cannot understand or respond to like decency or integrity, a kike says "muh capitalism", or "it's shekels I do what I want, goy." This is usually followed by exclamations of "Oy vey, it's another shoah" and "remember the 6 gorillion."

>>12923634
Probably because Melee is very accessible to new players while keeping a high skill ceiling.

>>12923632
Nintendo rarely gives a shit about fan projects. Even Project M, a game that is featured at tournaments that often require money to enter, hasn't been shut down in the years that it's been in development. The devs for PM do develop it for free though, but like I said, if the SoySauce devs drop smash from the title they should be in the clear.

>>12923623

No, that's just because none of the brothers are any good at modeling, by their own admission. Their decision to avoid an anime style and the crappyness of the models are really two separate things.

>>12923634
Smash (or melee at least) has tons of in depth mechanics. The real problem with Melee is the character balance and maybe the lack of tournament legal stages.

>>12923647
I'm not really sure of the legality of tournaments and the like, but I imagine that it would be such a pain for them to take any action against that that it's not really worth it. As for Project M itself, it isn't being sold and people aren't making money off it, as far as I know. With this, they're literally saying "this is Smash Bros with Touhou characters, please give us money to make it." It might make Nintendo a bit more motivated to do something if they think someone is profiting off their IP in some way.

I don't know though, I'm no lawyer. It just seems like if Nintendo really wanted to fuck these guys, they wouldn't have much trouble.

>>12923634

Well, it has literally no competition in it's subgenre because every other platform fighter is, at best, hot garbage. Hell, Playstation All-Stars is probably the only one that even TRIED to be a good game.

>>12923647
I know that Nintendo will sue the pants off of anyone who draws porn of Mario. They aren't known to play nicely in courts.

>>12923663
I should also add that Project M is just a mod, not an entirely new game. There's probably some legal grey area there as well. Besides, you still have to buy Brawl to play it, so I can't see why they would even care.

>>12923669
There's always tons of doujins and porn with Mario though. I heard that they even got involved in Faithful Tepig 2 (the pokemon doujin) and asked the creator to take out the bestiality, don't know if that's just hearsay though.

>>12923663
Yeah, I don't know if the Touhou devs are in the clear or not. If they dropped the crowdfunding then I'm 100% positive that they could go on as they were without being bothered by ninty but as it is now advertizing it as smash and having it in the title seems like something they should really avoid doing.

>>12923678
>I heard that they even got involved in Faithful Tepig 2
read:
http://exhentai.org/s/c05a797d17/775071-2

>>12923678

The only really objectionable thing is that the title happens to contain the initialism "SSB," and they could just rename it something else that still has Smash or Melee in it to still get their point of "Hey, this is a Smash game" across. I'm not even 100% if that one thing could get them in trouble.

You can't copyright ubiquitous game mechanics; the industry would fucking collapse.

>>12923687
Huh. I don't know why he felt he might not be able make 2 good with bestiality since the first was fine. Maybe he just really wanted to outdo himself or something though.
>>12923688
I'm not concerned with the mechanics being the same/similar, just that they include "smash bros" in the games title and advertisements and the fact that they are receiving money through crowdfunding. I know Nintendo is fine with people releasing straight up derivative works featuring their characters in most cases so long as they aren't for profit.

>>12923688
That can get you in more trouble than you'd think.
If you take out any mention of Smash, your game goes from "protected parody" to "copyright infringement".

>>12923647
If I remember correctly, Nintendo doesn't give a shit as long as money doesn't get directly involved with the project. Some Pokemon MMO got kicked in the ass by them when they started charging for something.

Shrinemaiden getting shit done once again

>>12921601
Is that guy still an intolerable blowhard?

What a goddamn weasel.

>>12911068
>Touhou Smash Bros instead of Super Smash Sisters or something
>"art style" (if you can even call it that) intentionally looks like shit to pander to smashfags who hate "anime"
>crowdfunding
>author is a jerk who wants ZUN to change his guidelines for him
This game is about as much of a joke as that guy who wanted to remake Monmusu Quest in 3D. Please, if there's anything right in this world, make it burn.

>>12913969
your work might be the basis of my revolting twitter roleplay identity, but my respect is EARNED. it's not a privilege.

Damn these guys seem pretty genuine. Shame they couldn't wait for Zun's response.

Worse case scenario this becomes a game and goes on steam without ZUNs permission. What do you plan on doing and what should we be doing?

Just to be sure, the guy making the smash game, saijee, is a second generation japanese dude living in the united states?

>>12923870
>touhou fan
>bashes the guy who made touhou

>>12923922
Likely third, given he seems to have little idea about cultural aspects, while his translator (assumed family) clearly don't speak japanese natively or frequently. If he was just nisei, he'd probably have better recognition of culture and language. That's just how I see it, though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kgP_2oQ9Vs

Prepare to cringe.

>>12924122

>>12924122
So they made a video with their hideous avatars plastered all over so Japanese people can't figure out what their intentions are? Or am I giving them too much credit?

>>12923870
Just as one expects, 2hu smashbru has the support of broken headed teen roleplayers

>>12924061
All this multiculturalism. Soon everything will just be one homologous society.
>>12924122
I cringed and now i am afraid of the future of 2hu

>>12924122
So what they state is that. Unless people demand their perks back and refunded. FSS is going to keep the money. Are you kidding me. Am I just hearing this wrong.

>>12924122
What I got out of that:
-They claim they got ZUNs approval as long as they stop the indiego thing.
-Wii-U/Steam can't and won't happen without ZUNs direct involvement.
-People are getting refunds.

I miss anything else important?
Couldn't really watch the video itself so I had it run while I browsed because of the embarrassingly designed and animated (and I use that term extremely loosely) author characters.

>>12924166
Well, all i got out of video is that they got response on 16th and kept compain ongoing for 2 day to get to the $20k >.<

>>12924189
January 16th. The day 2hu was kill

SO they're keeping the money?

>>12924201
They can't figure out how to cancel the indiegogo. But don't worry, refunds will come out.

>>12924220
However, they stated that they're still accepting donations, and will keep the money unless you reply otherwise.

>>12924223
>However, they stated that they're still accepting donations, and will keep the money unless you reply otherwise.

Why westerners cannot into humility?

>>12924229
Capitalism has no humility!

"Distribution by western sites and platforms is prohibited." Am i the only one who things this is plain bad? I get that they dont want Touhou to be a commercial game but come on, if not half of it, most of the Touhou fanbase is from the west. Also, patching the games to english is good but selling them on western websites is bad? I dont want to fan any flames i just dont see any logic in this specific "rule" I also remember that ZUN mentioned that it could have been possible to release Touhou on steam, if that was a good idea why prohibit that to fanworks?!

>>12924294
ZUN is racist, plain and simple.

>>12924294
tfw you can't be true Touhou fan if you're not Japanese

>>12924294
Most of the Touhou fan base in the west? Judging from numbers alone, that is completely incorrect. Not only does Japan have at least a 3x superior fan count; they also have more devoted fans as well.

Granted, I'm using my own experience. And nicodouga/etc vs Youtube/Molk/gensokyo/4chan/etc's numbers. But Japanese fan base is superior here in numbers.

>>12924294
Probably to prevent Western fan games being sold on Steam without his approval.

Like seriously. If he's still allowing donations, and still allowing the tier rewards to be reaped as long as you don't withdraw your donation. Isn't this literally still crowd funding.

>>12924294
See >>12920315

>>12924229
They can't accept defeat and part with their money. It's the bane of westernization. Truly they made our world worser.

>>12924162
The opposite, dummy. That being said, they shouldn't be keeping any of it, since it still amounts to crowdfunding.

>>12924294
>"Distribution by western sites and platforms is prohibited."
wrong
>most of the Touhou fanbase is from the west
very wrong
>patching the games to english is good but selling them on western websites is bad
uh yes? selling them commercially without permission at all is bad

>>12924294
>if that was a good idea why prohibit that to fanworks?!

Look at what's happening right now.
That's why.

>>12924451
I doubt any of them will refund it because if you do refund it, you don't get your perk bonus. According to him and confirmed in the comments.

I only see one of you guys in the comments of the video. Unfortunately, it's being drowned out by the retarded and unquestioning enablers.

Foolproof.

>>12924582
>future as a Wii U dev

>>12924609
It's true.
He has games on the eshop

He states that he plans on putting the project on the Wii U, just with replaced graphics (Non-Touhou). Is this even legal.

>>12924692
>Wii U
>future

>>12924713
Ahahaha what the fuck. Isn't the whole appeal of this thing is that it's touhou?

>>12924582
I hope they fuck up with the money and get in trouble

>>12924751
I thought it was for the Meleefags, which explains the horrible 3D art. Can't accidentally have too much anime in your games based on Japanese things after all.

>>12924777
I thought it was a cash grab and he was just doing it to raise his reputation as a dev.

>>12924122
>that part about SCE deal with ZUN

Seems like Sony saw the opportunity, since ZUN has a kid now to take care of, waved some money in his face and suddenly, "Touhou is comming to PS4 everyone!".
But wait a minute, what happened to "muh DOUJIN culture"?
What happened to not wanting to sell Touhou commercially?
Not to mention this goes against his very own guidelines.

And yes I know those are the fangames, not the actual Touhou games, but still ZUN had to approve it and of course he's getting a fat slice out of this "special" deal with Sony.

Can't exactly buy stuff with culture alone, eh ZUN?

>>12924797
Which guidelines would that be?

>>12924294
It's like you idiots spread this kind of misinformation just for circlejerking about how Japan is racist.

I"m sure Maiden of the Kaleidoscope doesn't like us very much; but I'm glad that the good portion of them are agreeing that FSS is doing things poorly, and the lack of information is shady.

Now if only more of them would refuse to support the project completely.

>>12924822
>Sale of works in channels that are further reaching than the distribution channels
used by the original works. The original works are primarily sold in general doujin
channels. So, please refrain from using download sales sites primarily oriented for
overseas customers, etc.
PS4 game store is not a "doujin channel".

Also while ZUN allowed those games to be released on PS4, putting games on Xbox is stil prohibited
>Restrictions: sale of software on the XBox 360 Indies channel
What's the difference between those 2 consoles?

>>12924822
Like, almost every single one of them?
I mean, I get that he has the copyright, he can do whatever the fuck he wants with it and doesn't have to follow any guidelines, even his own.
But I still think it's pretty funny, that such a devoted follower of "muh douijn culture" as ZUN, finally cracked when they showed him the money.

>>12924189
>>.<
Go back to shrinemaiden.

>>12924849
I agree on the first part, as long as JpnPS4 isn't actually a doujin channel. Which, since I don't live in Japan nor own a PS4, I wouldn't know. The 2nd can be explained that they don't have any form of agreement, or that they don't support doujin games.

Of course this is assuming that the PS4 works as some kind of doujin channel, which I could be wrong about, but I feel there's a possiblity since it's Japan.

>>12924851
Outside of the one that the anon posted above, I don't see anything else.

>>12924852
ShrineMaiden: a place where comments are almost like YouTube, only outside of YouTube. Often times they're so degenerate that I have a hard time believing I'm NOT on that website itself.

The donations part really irks me. Can't they just do the same thing as they did before but call all the fundings donations? Isn't that what they're basically doing?

I feel like this is just a huge cultural difference. From what I've heard nips say, asking for donations or even having a place for accepting donations sounds pretty shameful. It's like the opposite of here where everyone has a donation page.

>>12925149
I wonder what would they think about Patreon. It's basically online welfare.

>>12923240
Doesn't matter right now, but I made a mistake and said wheelchan /jp/ instead of wheelchan /2hu/. Sorry.

>>12925149
I agree, I did my best to bring it to attention.

Apparently, he will refund the money. The Indiegogo project is cancelled. The game will still be made and finished. The game will not be available on Steam or WiiU. Lastly, the art style will be changed.

>>12925254
>the art style will be changed.
Good.

>>12925254
But he's not refunding the money.

>>12925269
He's refunding the money unless you contact him and tell him not to.

>>12925279
But he is still offering the perks that was attached to the money.Unless you take back your donation. The fact that he'll with-hold your vote/whatever you paid for, isn't a refund. It's the exact same thing he did before. Crowd funding.

>>12925283
Nah, doujin creators are still allowed to receive money from friends who want to help, just not go out and ask for investors.
So this is kind of loophole-ish, but it should be okay... probably.

>>12925294
It's not. Because he is offering a service or denying it based on the amount of funding he gets. That is no longer a donation.

>>12925269

13:40
>We guarantee that everyone who wants their money back is going to get refunded.
13:44
>If you don’t get your money back, I’ll pay you personally from my pocket.

>>12925301
According to IGG
If a person refuses a refund they have no choice but to provide said perk.

>>12925365
They shouldn't be getting this funding in the first place. The entire system of refunds is just leading people not to ask for the refunds that they deserve. And that's the problem. Them getting any money at all.

>>12925403
They can take the money as donations and just put the characters in anyways.

Either way money or not the goals are being done according to the video.

Loopholes anon.

>>12925408
This whole game is one huge loophole.

>>12925408
Unfortunately, that doesn't fall. Especially with the statements that they made so far. Outside of making a full refund to everyone. And providing no perks at all. It'll violate the original terms and conditions, of no crowd funding.

>>12925411
That's fangames in general.

>>12925413
if they put that money into a donation ware style format then it's all fine.

>>12923818
>Monmusu Quest in 3D
Please tell me there's a link. It's worth it for the comedic value alone.

Important read https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,17884.msg1158129.html#msg1158129

>>12924849
Did you miss the "if you want to sell things commercially, seek my permission" part, Saijee-kun, or are you just pretending to be retarded?

>>12925528
And you're indeed retarded if you think I'm Saijee.
And you have brain damage if you think that I protected Saijee anywhere in this post >>12924849.
And you're a fucking degenerate if you think that post was anything else but a simple pinpointing of lines in a guideline as an answer to a random anon.

>>12925547
You did not answer my question. Do it honestly, and maybe you'll notice why your point was retarded.
Now, do you want some vaseline for that butthurt?

>>12925566
My point? I didn't even make any point in that post, which only further proves everyhing that was said about you in >>12925547.

I have never seen such great dedication for a fan-project, you people are amazing and have all my respect.
Best of luck with the project.

I find it so weird that he thought he could distribute someone else's IP to commercial platforms without permission (saying "oh ZUN may or may not have responded ;) :P" without giving any evidence or straightforward answers is so dodgy, just wait until you have a clear yes/no and say when you do), and profit from the game on top of that. Guidelines and doujin culture as a whole aside, you can't just think you can do that. What a fucking moron.

>>12925678
>I didn't even make any point in that post

As long as you understand.

>>12925792
I find it a lot weirder that people still willingly throw money at him even after he's proven himself a liar.

>>12925848
kikestarter.jpg

>>12925848
A fool and his money are soon parted, as they say. People will throw money at anything they think sounds cool nowadays, even if it's something completely fucking impossible. Look at that "solar roadways" shit, or the "hoverboard" that weighs 90 pounds.

>>12925792
>to commercial platforms
He never directly said it was going to be on the Wii-U without ZUN approving.

>>12925860
At least solar sidewalks are a bit more realistic than hoverboards. But wow, it weighs that much and it's supposed to float somehow? That's pretty silly.

>>12926020
It also only works on specific surfaces. The video they put up has Tony Hawk trying to do stuff on it and all he can manage to do is fall on his ass. He can barely even turn the thing.

I am not so sure of an actually TSSB 2.... Though maybe we could get a RWBYSSB on Wii U. Oum's cool after all.

Thank you for trusting us, we value your attendance :)

>>12926020
True anti-gravity hoverboard is both practically and theoratically impossible though. Electromagnetic, lift fan, or jet hoverboard are kinda possible but not practical in anyway.

Regarding the game, I can't believe that there are people who actually like the art.

>>12926034
honestly i fear an anime style being in there at all, alt or otherwise. imagine you looking realistic and cool, then see some tall chibi looking thing with giant eyes running at you. it's terrifying.

>>12926036
Well, 3d anime art would be disturbing. But the current art isn't good either, the faces look weird to me.

>>12926027
what is that robot thing?

>>12926034
>Regarding the game, I can't believe that there are people who actually like the art.
Like it, or just think it's good enough to do the job and there's no sense complaining? It's not like the source material has amazing art either.

People are on ZUN's side only because it's a shitty Smash clone with ugly as fuck models. Lots of people in /jp/ are not fans of fighting games in general (despite the existing of official touhou fighting games), they do not have friends to play with. And again models look like complete shit, it's a huge turn off.
Same thing was with that card game. Physical card game? Devianart illustrations? Yeah, sure, no one cares.

But...
Imagine if it was a big RPG with 2D anime graphics, high-rez cute 2hu sprites, open world, deep battle system and with possibility to date your fav 2hu. I'm sure you wouldn't be so strict about the guidelines.

>>12926061
lol

>>12926061
I would play the shit out of it lol.

>>12926061
I imagine that no western developer would ever come out with a Touhou fangame of that calibur, honestly.

>>12926061
I think if a group of westerners were putting that much effort into a Touhou game, they would more than likely contact ZUN about it if they were going to do crowd funding and/or put it on commercial platforms. A group making something like that would probably at least have one or two people who are familiar with doujin culture and the Touhou guidelines. If they pulled some shit like this smash project then although it would be more positively viewed, it would have the similar fate.

I agree with >>12926300 though, I really doubt a western group could possibly make something like that, and then actually make it good. Westerners are pretty good at limiting their products at mediocre quality. For example, have you seen that Huniepop VN thing that was made recently? It looks really bad and the voice acting was really bad too.

>>12926320
Huniepop might have been alright, but one of the project leads insisted on the awful "realistic" dialogue the game is now known for. One of the writers, who understood the VN market, disagreed with this design direction and left the team as to keep his name off of this project.

>>12926357
It's really awful isn't it? Apparently they made all the ladies bitches and I don't understand how they thought that was appealing at all. It's always good to have some variety up in there to make things interesting. I wonder how it would have turned out if the one VN guy had more of a say in the game's development.

Listen to these though, they're so bad.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcGPYxpPt6Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KD8nm32_ISw

So why would letting more people see Touhou be a bad thing? And why is letting someone profit commercially from touhou, a bad thing? I don't really understand any of this.

>>12926430
FUCK