/jp/ - Otaku Culture

>>12816154
a /djt/, normal.

>>12816154
I feel your pain Anon

>tfw you have enough japanese knowledge to cruise through an LO comic magazine and understand everything
This was my objective all along. I'm glad I succeeded.

>>12816154
It's more painful to give up than to keep trying, Anon. I'm sure you can do it.

>>12816171
I'm envious, congratulations dude.
Do you own any physical copies? I sort of want one. It sounds ridiculous but I just want it for the art.
Couldn't get one really though cause I still live at home and my computer and other stuff is in a communal space

>>12816154
feel

Anyone has that pastebin of learning Japanese? I spent two years on it, and can understand... Well, nothing really. But I don't want to give up.

If you think it's hard you're doing it wrong.
This isn't just ridicule either, you need to change how you approach Japanese, or end you'll end up like all the naruto fans.

I'm writing an anime textbook designed to teach people Japanese from the ground up.

Look for it by the time Christmas comes next year.

>>12816183
>I spent two years on it, and can understand... Well, nothing really. But I don't want to give up.
that feel, except 5 years

>>12816195
Believe it!

>>12816177
I only have digitals from Nyaa.

>>12816216
>>12816195
Samefag

>>12816154
Don't give up. I gave up once and forgot everything i had learned.It was terrible.
I had to start all over again from scratch and now i just started katakana

>>12816154
>Anonymous 12/21/14(Sun)07:47:38 No.12816154 [Reply]▶>>12817398
>I really want to give up learning Japanese
Don't give up faggot, learning a foreign language is one of the most wonderful experiences you can have, don't deny yourself that pleasure

>>12816193
>pastebin
Fuck that

Start here, read it all the way down, even if it says Advanced it still won't be enough for you to understand all everyday sentences correctly
http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/grammar

Keep going with this, reading all the way down to Advanced-I is sufficient
http://www.imabi.net/

Various lookup guides for grammar and such, make sure to read them through
web.archive.org/web/1/http://jiten.clanteam.com/ (in case you can't keep up with IMABI's just study the grammar points here)
http://jiten.clanteam.com/ (full transcript of the Dictionary of Japanese Grammar volumes)
http://www.mediafire.com/download/dckt6ix32l93f35/fora.pdf (you'd better print this cheatsheet somewhere)
http://www.tanos.co.uk/jlpt/skills/grammar/ (the site also contains audio files and JLPT test sheets as well, the grammar usage section is particularly useful)

The rest:
http://amaterasu.tindabox.net/guide/
http://thejapanesepage.com/grammar.htm

Nice site to learn vocabulary, online flashcards so you can review them everywhere without installing useless programs
http://www.manythings.org/japanese/
Make sure to study the daily kanji list at least up until level 5
http://www.manythings.org/japanese/daily/

I'm not suggesting any specific Anki deck, but kanji consist of a phonetic and semantic part which helps a lot in guessing the on-yomi (pseudo-Chinese reading) so try it and learn the patterns, it'll make learning kanji easier
https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/2079428463

KanjiDamage a shit, but since you can use many kanji to represent the same native Japanese word, read this. It'll save you up time learning kun-yomi and clear a lot of things up.
http://kanjidamage.com/appendix/dupes

Online dictionaries just in case:
http://jisho.org/
http://tangorin.com/

Other web utilities, pretty limited usage but help sometimes:
http://www.hiragana.jp/en/ (injects furigana over kanji)
http://www.rikai.com/perl/Home.pl (kanji reading on mouseover)

>>12816193
This?
>https://docs.google.com/document/d/1G5C7fCe07CDzYalZYZObzxv_fhw7RUNsLHiMAY-t7FA/mobilebasic?pli=1

>>12817414
Wow, thank you

>>12816193
>pastebin
Fuck that

Start here, read it all the way down, even if it says Advanced it still won't be enough for you to understand all everyday sentences correctly
http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/grammar

Keep going with this, reading all the way down to Advanced-I is sufficient
http://www.imabi.net/

Various lookup guides for grammar and such, make sure to read them through
http://www.jgram.org/ (in case you can't keep up with IMABI's just study the grammar points here)
http://web.archive.org/web/1/http://jiten.clanteam.com/ (full transcript of the Dictionary of Japanese Grammar volumes)
http://www.mediafire.com/download/dckt6ix32l93f35/fora.pdf (you'd better print this cheatsheet somewhere)
http://www.tanos.co.uk/jlpt/skills/grammar/ (the site also contains audio files and JLPT test sheets as well, the grammar usage section is particularly useful)

The rest:
http://amaterasu.tindabox.net/guide/
http://thejapanesepage.com/grammar.htm

Nice site to learn vocabulary, online flashcards so you can review them everywhere without installing useless programs
http://www.manythings.org/japanese/
Make sure to study the daily kanji list at least up until level 5
http://www.manythings.org/japanese/daily/

I'm not suggesting any specific Anki deck, but kanji consist of a phonetic and semantic part which helps a lot in guessing the on-yomi (pseudo-Chinese reading) so try it and learn the patterns, it'll make learning kanji easier
https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/2079428463

KanjiDamage a shit, but since you can use many kanji to represent the same native Japanese word, read this. It'll save you up time learning kun-yomi and clear a lot of things up.
http://kanjidamage.com/appendix/dupes

Online dictionaries just in case:
http://jisho.org/
http://tangorin.com/

Other web utilities, pretty limited usage but help sometimes:
http://www.hiragana.jp/en/ (injects furigana over kanji)
http://www.rikai.com/perl/Home.pl (kanji reading on mouseover)

Suck it the fuck up or just give up faggot.

>>12816154
>Its to hard

But you didn't give up learning English? Or did you...

>>12816177
Noise is top tier.

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to jap

your next say「go to home!」

>>12817680
>>12817695
・・・何言ってんの？

not temple

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I've been trying off and on for four or five years now. I still haven't made much progress as I can't even read manga like Yotsuba. When studying I can't get a grasp on when I should move on to the next page, or if I actually understood what I read. Like, I kind of wonder how other anons study and how they practice. I know some people write down sentences about things they like, but I have zero creative drive and I spend a while even trying to figure out what I want to write. It's kind of sad seeing other people quickly grasping things while I'm still stuck at grammar. ;_;

That ADHD feeling.

wat? DHMO water??
wer front tama too.huuuu

The Ming dynasty, also Empire of the Great Ming, was the ruling dynasty of China for 276 years (1368–1644) following the collapse of the Mongol-led Yuan dynasty. The Ming, described by some as "one of the greatest eras of orderly government and social stability in human history,"[5] was the last dynasty in China ruled by ethnic Han Chinese. Although the primary capital of Beijing fell in 1644 to a rebellion led by Li Zicheng (who established the Shun dynasty, soon replaced by the Manchu-led Qing dynasty), regimes loyal to the Ming throne – collectively called the Southern Ming – survived until 1662.

The Hongwu Emperor (ruled 1368–98) attempted to create a society of self-sufficient rural communities ordered in a rigid, immobile system that would guarantee and support a permanent class of soldiers for his dynasty:[6] the empire's standing army exceeded one million troops and the navy's dockyards in Nanjing were the largest in the world.[7] He also took great care breaking the power of the court eunuchs[8] and unrelated magnates, enfeoffing his many sons throughout China and attempting to guide these princes through the Huang Ming Zu Xun, a set of published dynastic instructions. This failed spectacularly when his teenage successor, the Jianwen Emperor, attempted to curtail his uncles' power, prompting the Jingnan Campaign, an uprising that placed the Prince of Yan upon the throne as the Yongle Emperor in 1402. The Yongle Emperor established Yan as a secondary capital and renamed it Beijing, constructed the Forbidden City, and restored the Grand Canal and the primacy of the imperial examinations in official appointments. He rewarded his eunuch supporters and employed them as a counterweight against the Confucian scholar-bureaucrats. One, Zheng He, led seven enormous voyages of exploration into the Indian Ocean as far as Arabia and the coast of Africa.

The rise of new emperors and new factions diminished such extravagances; the capture of the Zhengtong Emperor during the 1449 Tumu Crisis ended them completely. The imperial navy was allowed to fall into disrepair while forced labor constructed the Liaodong palisade and connected and fortified the Great Wall of China into its modern form. Wide-ranging censuses of the entire empire were conducted decennially, but the desire to avoid labor and taxes and the difficulty of storing and reviewing the enormous archives at Nanjing hampered accurate figures.[6] Estimates for the late-Ming population vary from 160 to 200 million,[9] but necessary revenues were squeezed out of smaller and smaller numbers of farmers as more disappeared from the official records or "donated" their lands to tax-exempt eunuchs or temples.[6] Haijin laws intended to protect the coasts from "Japanese" pirates instead turned many into smugglers and pirates themselves.

By the 16th century, however, the expansion of European trade – albeit restricted to islands near Guangzhou like Macao – spread the Columbian Exchange of crops, plants, and animals into China, introducing chili peppers to Sichuan cuisine and highly productive corn and potatoes, which diminished famines and spurred population growth. The growth of Portuguese, Spanish, and Dutch trade created new demand for Chinese products and produced a massive influx of Japanese and American silver. This abundance of specie allowed the Ming to finally avoid using paper money, which had sparked hyperinflation during the 1450s. While traditional Confucians opposed such a prominent role for commerce and the newly rich it created, the heterodoxy introduced by Wang Yangming permitted a more accommodating attitude. Zhang Juzheng's initially successful reforms proved devastating when a slowdown in agriculture produced by the Little Ice Age was met with Japanese and Spanish policies that quickly cut off the supply of silver now necessary for farmers to be able to pay their taxes. Combined with crop failure, floods, and epidemic, the dynasty was considered to have lost the Mandate of Heaven and collapsed before the rebel leader Li Zicheng and a Manchurian invasion.

The Mongol-led Yuan dynasty (1279–1368) ruled before the establishment of the Ming dynasty. Alongside institutionalized ethnic discrimination against Han Chinese that stirred resentment and rebellion, other explanations for the Yuan's demise included overtaxing areas hard-hit by crop failure, inflation, and massive flooding of the Yellow River as a result of the abandonment of. irrigation projects.[4] Consequently, agriculture and the economy were in shambles and rebellion broke out among the hundreds of thousands of peasants called upon to work on repairing the dikes of the Yellow River.[4]

A number of Han Chinese groups revolted, including the Red Turbans in 1351. The Red Turbans were affiliated with the Buddhist secret society of the White Lotus, which propagated Manichean beliefs in the struggle of good against evil and worship of the Maitreya Buddha.[5] Zhu Yuanzhang was a penniless peasant and Buddhist monk who joined the Red Turbans in 1352, but soon gained a reputation after marrying the foster daughter of a rebel commander.[6][7] In 1356 Zhu's rebel force captured the city of Nanjing,[8] which he would later establish as the capital of the Ming dynasty. Zhu enlisted the aid of many able advisors, including the artillery specialists Jiao Yu and Liu Ji.

Zhu cemented his power in the south by eliminating his arch rival and rebel leader Chen Youliang in the Battle of Lake Poyang in 1363. This battle was—in terms of personnel—one of the largest naval battles in history. After the dynastic head of the Red Turbans suspiciously died in 1367 while hosted as a guest of Zhu, the latter made his imperial ambitions known by sending an army toward the Yuan capital in 1368.[9] The last Yuan emperor fled north into Mongolia and Zhu declared the founding of the Ming dynasty after razing the Yuan palaces in Dadu (present-day Beijing) to the ground.[9]

Instead of the traditional way of naming a dynasty after the first ruler's home district, Hongwu's choice of 'Ming' or 'Brilliant' for his dynasty followed a Mongol precedent of an uplifting title.[8] Zhu Yuanzhang also took Hongwu, or 'Vastly Martial' as his reign title. Although the White Lotus had fomented his rise to power, Hongwu later denied that he had ever been a member of their organization and suppressed the religious movement after he became emperor.[8][10]

Hongwu immediately set to rebuilding state infrastructure. He built a 48 km (30 mi) long wall around Nanjing, as well as new palaces and government halls.[9] The Ming Shi states that as early as 1364 Zhu Yuanzhang had begun drafting a new Confucian law code known as the Daming Lu, which was completed by 1397 and repeated certain clauses found in the old Tang Code of 653.[11] Hongwu organized a military system known as the weisuo, which was similar to the fubing system of the Tang dynasty (618–907). The goal was to have soldiers become self-reliant farmers in order to sustain themselves while not fighting or training.[12] This system was also similar to the Yuan dynasty military organization of a hereditary caste of soldiers and a hereditary nobility of commanders.[12] The system of the self-sufficient agricultural soldier, however, was largely a farce; infrequent rations and awards were not enough to sustain the troops, and many deserted their ranks if they weren't located in the heavily-supplied frontier.[13]

Although a Confucian, Hongwu had a deep distrust for the scholar-officials of the gentry class and was not afraid to have them beaten in court for offenses.[14] In favor of Confucian learning and the civil service, Hongwu ordered every county magistrate to open a Confucian school in 1369—following the tradition of a nationwide school system first established by Emperor Ping of Han (9 BCE–5 CE).[15][16] However, he halted the civil service examinations in 1373 after complaining that the 120 scholar-officials who obtained a jinshi degree were incompetent ministers.[17][18] After the examinations were reinstated in 1384,[18] he had the chief examiner executed after it was discovered that he allowed only candidates from the south to be granted jinshi degrees.[17] In 1380, Hongwu had the Chancellor Hu Weiyong executed upon suspicion of a conspiracy plot to overthrow him; after that Hongwu abolished the Chinese Chancellery and assumed this role as chief executive and emperor.[19][20] With a growing amount of suspicion for his ministers and subjects, Hongwu established the Jinyiwei, a network of secret police drawn from his own palace guard. They were partly responsible for the loss of 100,000 lives in several major purges over three decades of his rule.[19][21]

Multiple conflicts arose with the Ming dynasty fighting against the Uyghur Kingdom of Turpan and Oirat Mongols on the Northwestern Border, near Gansu, Turpan, and Hami. The Ming dynasty took control of Hami (under a small kingdom called Qara Del) in 1404 and turned it into Hami Prefecture[22] In 1406, the Ming dynasty defeated the ruler of Turpan.,[23] which would lead to a lengthy war. The Moghul ruler of Turpan Yunus Khan, also known as Ḥājjī `Ali (ruled 1462–78), unified Moghulistan (roughly corresponding to today's Eastern Xinjiang) under his authority in 1472. Asserting his newfound power, Ḥājjī `Ali sought redress of old grievances between the Turpanians and Ming China began over the restrictive tributary trade system. Tensions rose, and in 1473 he led a campaign east to confront China, even succeeding in capturing Hami from the Oirat Mongol ruler Henshen. Ali traded control of Hami with the Ming, then Henshen's Mongols, in numerous battles spanning the reigns of his son Ahmed and his grandson Mansur[24][25] in a drawn-out and complex series of conflicts now known as the Ming–Turpan conflict.[26]

In 1381, the Ming dynasty annexed the areas of the southwest that had once been part of the Kingdom of Dali, which was annihilated by the Mongols in the 1250s and became established as the Yunnan Province under Yuan dynasty later on. By the end of the 14th century, some 200,000 military colonists settled some 2,000,000 mu (350,000 acres) of land in what is now Yunnan and Guizhou.[27] Roughly half a million more Chinese settlers came in later periods; these migrations caused a major shift in the ethnic make-up of the region, since more than half of the roughly 3,000,000 inhabitants at the beginning of the Ming dynasty were non-Han peoples.[27] In this region, the Ming government adopted a policy of dual administration. Areas with majority ethnic Chinese were governed according to Ming laws and policies; areas where native tribal groups dominated had their own set of laws while tribal chiefs promised to maintain order and send tribute to the Ming court in return for needed goods.[27] From 1464 to 1466, the Miao and Yao people of Guangxi, Guangdong, Sichuan, Hunan, and Guizhou revolted against what they saw as oppressive government rule; in response, the Ming government sent an army of 30,000 troops (including 1,000 Mongols) to join the 160,000 local troops of Guangxi and crushed the rebellion.[2] After the scholar and philosopher Wang Yangming (1472–1529) suppressed another rebellion in the region, he advocated joint administration of Chinese and local ethnic groups in order to bring about sinification in the local peoples' culture.[2]

Mingshi— the official history of the Ming dynasty compiled later by the Qing court in 1739—states that the Ming established itinerant commanderies overseeing Tibetan administration while also renewing titles of ex-Yuan dynasty officials from Tibet and conferring new princely titles on leaders of Tibet's Buddhist sects.[30] However, Turrell V. Wylie states that censorship in the Mingshi in favor of bolstering the Ming emperor's prestige and reputation at all costs obfuscates the nuanced history of Sino-Tibetan relations during the Ming era.[31] Modern scholars still debate on whether or not the Ming dynasty really had sovereignty over Tibet at all, as some believe it was a relationship of loose suzerainty which was largely cut off when the Jiajing Emperor (r. 1521–1567) persecuted Buddhism in favor of Daoism at court.[31][32][33]

Helmut Hoffman states that the Ming upheld the facade of rule over Tibet through periodic missions of "tribute emissaries" to the Ming court and by granting nominal titles to ruling lamas, but did not actually interfere in Tibetan governance.[34] Wang Jiawei and Nyima Gyaincain disagree, stating that Ming China had sovereignty over Tibetans who did not inherit Ming titles, but were forced to travel to Beijing to renew them.[35] Melvyn C. Goldstein writes that the Ming had no real administrative authority over Tibet since the various titles given to Tibetan leaders already in power did not confer authority as earlier Mongol Yuan titles had; according to him, "the Ming emperors merely recognized political reality."[36] Some scholars argue that the significant religious nature of the relationship of the Ming court with Tibetan lamas is underrepresented in modern scholarship.[37][38] Others underscore the commercial aspect of the relationship, noting the Ming dynasty's insufficient number of horses and the need to maintain the tea-horse trade with Tibet.[39][40][41][42][43] Scholars also debate on how much power and influence—if any—the Ming dynasty court had over the de facto successive ruling families of Tibet, the Phagmodru (1354–1436), Rinbung (1436–1565), and Tsangpa (1565–1642).[44][45][46][47][48][49]

The Ming initiated sporadic armed intervention in Tibet during the 14th century, while at times the Tibetans also used successful armed resistance against Ming forays.[50][51] Patricia Ebrey, Thomas Laird, Wang Jiawei, and Nyima Gyaincain all point out that the Ming dynasty did not garrison permanent troops in Tibet,[47][52][53] unlike the former Mongol Yuan dynasty.[47] The Wanli Emperor (r. 1572–1620) made attempts to reestablish Sino-Tibetan relations in the wake of a Mongol-Tibetan alliance initiated in 1578, the latter of which affected the foreign policy of the subsequent Manchu Qing dynasty (1644–1912) of China in their support for the Dalai Lama of the Yellow Hat sect.[31][54][55][56][57] By the late 16th century, the Mongols proved to be successful armed protectors of the Yellow Hat Dalai Lama after their increasing presence in the Amdo region, culminating in Güshi Khan's (1582–1655) conquest of Tibet in 1642.[31][58][59][60]

jap justice is dwun to old time
now jap justice is justice police to CIA menber onry
justice cheef bentu menber only.but
bentu menber onry justice pepole,name is 青年裁判狭量隊 to enemist
old time Novel is mony justice style,oh....

your fool apil

>>12818112
1. learn hiragana katakana
2. read tae kim/ anki core 2k
3. read easy manga
4. read harder manga
5. read easy vn's
6 read harder vn's
pretty much how I did it.

>>12818275
Stop bumping this thread you fucking retard.

最近ヘンじゃった悪くないの?

Join wanikani made by the folks from tofugu! Tell them that koichi ben sent you to get a massive discount.

thanks for the advice crabgator

>>12818275
Tae Kim glosses over things too quickly for me.

I kinda wanna give up too, to be honest.
I'm pretty much stuck and have no idea what or how to learn.

And everytime someone gives advice, they just throw a hundred different links at your face (like >>12817505) saying, you can use this, this or alternatively this, which just leaves me confused.

I'm still in that magical place where I can rejoice over getting all the Beginner chapters in Japanese Pod.

>>12817672
If toddlers had the mental fortitude of lazy NEETS from the get go I'm sure he would've.

>>12818520
You need structure in your teaching so most likely you need to attend a formal teaching class at Uni or if you can afford it a private tutor. Everything else falls under self-discipline.

>>12818112
the most important thing is repetition. even if you only understand 30% of a page the first time you read it, if you go back and read it again later you should be able to understand it better.

as for practice try translating random things you say throughout the day. like asking where something is at the store or something you posted on /jp/

>>12818548
>You need structure in your teaching

That's pretty much what I'm saying.
Unfortunately none of those options are available for me.

I understand pretty much everything (at least when reading) but I can't produce my own Japanese sentences

>>12818554
Well the problem is I never feel comfortable enough to go to the next page.

Learn by reading not memorizing flash cards.

>>12818666
Read something that has a translation.

>>12818694
What?

>>12818868
Read something you like in Japanese. If you get stuck then read the translation. Always read it in Japanese first and try your best.

>>12818918
I'm not even at the level where I can read compound sentences.

>>12818923
Play Pokemon in Japanese. Literally 4th grade grammar which will put you to the test.

I just started learning it yesterday and I can already read most nukige because most of the sentences are ooohh...aaahh..hiuuuu..

I kind of want to give up with Japanese too, because I feel I will never be able to listen this language. The N1 listening part was just guessing and I probably never pass it.

It is really anquishing when I can read almost anything, just need to check few words sometimes, but listening is just derpderp.

i can't even think of starting to learn japanese
or anything else

>>12819359
I feel the same way. Back when I took German for instance in high school I could read well with the help of a dictionary but listening murdered me. Japanese will probably be the same way once I get good enough to read.

How frustrated should I be about the fact that I have no idea what anyone's talking about like 70% of the time on twitter? Even after looking up the kanji i'm not familiar with, there's always so much shit that I just don't get at all. I just finished up my 3rd semester at uni so i don't consider myself a master of the language or anything but...is it this hard for everyone else this far in?

>>12818936
Holy shit, why didn't I think of that.

>C2 French, Portuguese
>C1 English

Kek'd, have fun wasting your time on useless languages my friends. You'd be better off just dropping such a useless language and learning something useful.

>>12818623
If you speak to other people plenty, you'll get used to forming sentences and it will help when writing fluidly and coherently.

>>12818520
You learn by socializing, imageboards are an alright way. Languages are a way to communicate and be social with others. Its no surprise that shut-in NEETs are having trouble learning while being isolated. It doesnt help that the best places to chat with others like 2chan, block foreigners.

>>12820539
It's not useless. You could help translate things for people if you know Japanese.

>>12818946

kek

This thread makes me feel a little better knowing I'm not the only one who struggles to learn Japanese. Whenever I look through DJT threads I always see people talking about how great their progress is going and it gets me down. Sad thing is I know it's completely my fault, if I were to put some more effort into it I'm sure I could do well with Japanese. I'm just a lazy neet.

>>12816154
I started 6 years ago, just watching anime and read some grammar related stuff, now I can watch anime without subtitles (excluding sci-fi)... But reading/writing sucks... I translate some random stuff on the web, so now can read hiragana/katakana but kanji....

>>12820437
Same here.
Even though I kinda understand all of the words or most of them, I often have no idea what they're talking about.

I started about 5 years ago and went through the whole self teaching process. Gave up on studying about 2 years ago and just stuck trying to read stuff on my own now without daily boring flash card reps. Still can't really say I understand 70% of what's going on or being said, but I just keep at it and hope the learning process happens subconsciously and in a few years understanding will come naturally.

>>12820539
>C2 French, Portuguese
>C1 English

Are you an aveque perchance?

>>12821326
Same.

Here's an example for me:
Everyone from Pokemon professor?
Everyone because..

And then I remembered the actual English line.

>>12822440
It is also the same for me. the actual meaning is always quite different from the literal word for word meaning.

I have a question /jp/.
Would reading non translated manga help me learn anything?
>Already know harigana and some katakana but don't know a rat's ass about kanji.
So is it a good idea to read manga in japanese or will it fuck up my learning?

>>12823059
you should learn some grammar first and basic vocabulary
reading RAWs with a dictionnary can be very helpful yes

>>12823059
>harigana

Yeah, about that...

>>12823059

Manga's too advanced based on what you described. You're better off picking up genki and working through it first. If things like kana are your measurement (rather than "I know て form and た form and how to string verbs together with たり", etc) Then you don't know enough Japanese to even attempt to understand what's going on in a manga.

Also don't bother trying to read TLs as a way to 'learn', a good TL will take many liberties from the underlying text to properly convey spirit and ideas (e.g. Grisaia). You may, at best, pick up a few words and some connotations, but you're better off studying other ways first.

>>12823065
Hiragana. my bad, anon.
>>12823062
Will do. I'm still terrible with grammar and vocabulary so i'll do as you say and then start reading. Thanks anon

>>12816154
why? it is honestly so easy. I became fluent in 2 years. I am on year 5 of learning now and it is now natural to me like I have been speaking Japanese all my life.　I can enjoy animes and I read 2ch matome sites daily and watch comedy programs. Other than that I still work a shit job though cause I never went to college

>>12823097
I went to college and I don't have a job at all, even a shit one.

>>12823097
How did you learn it?
Self taught?

>>12823110
him becoming fluent in two years gives it away that he's either lying or has some savant qualities

>>12823097
I don't get it. If you were fluent after 2 years why are you bragging about being able to do basic things like watch tv after 5?

>>12817505
I think I'm going to give it a go

Native speaker here. I was taught both Japanese and English by my parents from age 0, in fact I learned Japanese first and had trouble communicating with others in American kindergarten because my English wasn't so good at the time.

So tell me /jp/, how hard is it to learn Japanese at whatever age you all are? Is it rewarding enough? It feels damn good to watch anime or play games or read manga without waiting for lazy translators, right?

What's the anime in the OP?

>>12823968
It's Brynhildr. Read the manga instead. As an adaptation the anime was a trainwreck.

>>12823934
>So tell me /jp/, how hard is it to learn Japanese at whatever age you all are?
Pretty difficult. I sure wish they taught Japanese at my HS.

>>12823934
>how hard is it to learn Japanese

Impossible.

>>12823934
I'm in my mid- to late twenties, though I've been studying Japanese for a while. It's not too hard, but getting some of the less-commonly used grammar and vocab to stick is a bit of a challenge. I'd say it's been very rewarding as it has gotten me to Japan and married.

>>12816154
I gave up, about a year ago. I got overwhelmed, and got too frustrated. I always think where I could be if I had kept studying every night for the past year, I kind of regret stopping..

I think about of going back, but I never do.

>>12823934
Not very hard in the cognitive sense. I studied some basic grammar, vocabulary and am almost finished with RTK and I have made surprising gains from simply reading ero doujinshi raws and listening carefully to Japanese radio. I expect several more leaps from Genki, Tae-Kim and Imabi. Obviously I am very far off from really understanding the language but I'm definitely advancing.

It's irritatingly hard in the sense that it requires discipline. I have doubted many times.

>>12823934
It takes a reasonable amount of work (say, comparable to learning calculus) to get to the point where you can start reading stuff. Mainly it just takes a lot of patience.

From then, it takes almost no work but a shitload of time to be able to read/listen at a near-native level. I say almost no work because you don't really have to do anything that isn't fun, and it becomes relaxing.

>>12823934
Started learning a bit before I turned 18, took me 2-3 months until it started looking like a language and 5 months to start muramasa with a dictionary.

>>12824673
I fucking hate you.

Study Japanese: Suffer the pain and dread of reviews and hate day to day

Not study Japanese: Feel like I can breathe but feel pain every time I come across Japanese text

Cool life

>>12823934
I know enough japanese to read most VNs and just for the few VNs I gave a grade 9 and higher I already feel immensely satisfied.

>>12823934
really not that hard if you have fun with it.
I've been studying japanese for about 9 months now, at first I did the whole Anki thing but I didn't really like it and it didn't really work for me.
so with really shitty vocabulary and a really basic understanding of the grammar I just started reading a shit ton of manga.

after that I just read a few 40 hours vn's and I'm starting to really get a feel for it.

>>12816154
Your English doesn't seem all that great either, so I guess you're pretty fucked.

>>12825242
Same.

>>12823934
Nearly impossible. I'm still mastering it even if it kills me though

Adderall gives you wings.

Somebody please explain me why these /a/ shits come here despite having a separate thread on their beloved homeboard.

You guys are good at Japanese.
What is this about exactly?
http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=47679664

I'm guessing the artist wants to somehow fight against Chinese piracy/translations?

>>12826018
The fuck? A lot of the comments are in chinese.

>>12825949
None of them know Japanese.

>>12826018
It has nothing to do with that. I took a brief glance - later, if he doesn't take it down, I'll take a closer look but right now I'm not really in a place where I can look too closely at a rape doujinshi sample.

What happened is that the author put out a rape book where Suzuya (the Kantai Collection personification of the WWII-era heavy cruiser Suzuya) gets raped by a bunch of Chinese people in a contemporary setting. After the rape, Suzuya finds herself being taken care of by a pro-Japanese Chinese citizen and there's a bit of negative commentary on China and Chinese people (Tiananmen rears its ugly head at some point). This gets translated into Chinese (there are a shit ton of Chinese Kancolle fans in both Taiwan and China) and ignites an incredible shitstorm because Japanese-Chinese relationships are a whole THING. Mixing in the Sino-Japanese war and rape can't help. The whole thing blows up on the Chinese internet and spills onto his comment page, I'm assuming it's full of flames and death threats and the usual Asia-political banter.

The author's message essentially says "thank you for the comments, the book will not be released, there's nothing I can do about the fact that it's circulating in translation but I will take down the Japanese versions of the manga in a few days." Also a note that he can't moderate that many comments through translation software and that some Chinese people have been relatively supportive of him.

Honestly, it's pretty fucking funny. I always suspected that Kancolle might precipitate an international incident sometime, the premise is just so... touchy.

>>12823934
Grammar isn't too bad, but I have a natural gift for languages and learn grammar way faster than normal people.

Now, the thing that kills me is Kanji. I just...fuck kanji. Memorizing them all is hell. I got Hiragana down perfectly and nearly have Katakana down perfectly but Kanji is just a gigantic block for me. I can remember a very small few of them like 食，見、花、大、犬、猫, and others, but everything else just falls out of my head.

>>12826101
I thought that book was to be released on C87.
And if there really is a translation I sure hope it gets posted on the panda.

>>12816177
Anon, where else would you live if you didn't live at home?

>>12826140
They might just be talking about the sample, which is already like eight pages anyway. I'm not really going to go looking.

It's translated into Chinese for sure, dunno if anyone English is going to attack that.

>>12825875
Does Adderall really help?

>>12826114
Same

>>12826288
You'll either stop being a useless piece of shit, or become really good at being a useless piece of shit.

>>12820330
Aber Anon, Hochdeutsch ist doch so eine deutliche Sprache

>>12826308
You sure about that?

I just hope I hold onto enough gainz until the next time I feel inspired to do it every day.

I might be more motivated if I would realistically ever have enough money to live there.

;_;

So those of you that read VNs how do you go about translating stuff you don't understand, exactly?

>>12821326
>>12822440
Good to know, it's not just me then. It kind of makes me wonder how difficult it is for japanese people to understand english speakers on twitter. It's not rare for them to use weird internet slang and I can't that say I know any japanese internet slang.

>>12826497
I'm still a beginner, but when I don't understand something in terms of grammar i type it out in firefox, then have rikaisama tell me the grammar that's being used so I can look it up

>>12826510
How do you do this?

>>12826639
Anon, are you trying to tell me that you've been learning japanese without rikaichan/rikaisama?

That's LITERALLY impossible

I don't get all the people saying they only learnt 'some' katakana. Surely you'd want to be able to read and write the basic phonetic alphabets before going onto anything else? It took about two months of pure repetition but I can read and write both with ease now, I feel like I have a foundation to start from and the sense of progress is reassuring. Two months ago I literally could not have read a single character. I consider myself to be pretty dumb so it's gotta be even easier for most people.

I currently try and write all the hiragana and katakana and listen to some pimsleur recordings everyday. I still haven't worked out a structured approach to learning kanji, so I'm just starting by learning and getting familiar with all the radicals.

>>12826759
Brace for "Two months? It only took me one hour to learn all of the kana!"

>>12826759
For me hiragana just won't stick

>>12816154
I was able to successfully give up learning Japanese easily...all the 3d asian girls I meet are either chinese or vietnamese so japanese is pretty useless lol

>>12826822
lol sick, bro. how these fucking dorks think they gonna get any of that slanteye pussy with this weeb shit, right?

>>12826822
It's not about 3DPD though... I just want to help translate things.

>>12826871

>started Core2k a week and a half ago
>can recognize Kanji, but can't remember them

Is this normal? When I see them on the screen, I can remember what they sound like/what word they form. However, when I'm sitting here trying to picture them, they get muddled.

>>12826663
Not him, but yes.
I don't even know what that is.

>>12826884
I think it might be normal because it's like that for me as well. Not just with Kanji but with other things as well.

>>12823110
yes, self taught I read remembering the kanji, then I did self-immersion. I did not practice speaking Japanese for a whole year. It was all reading and listening and writing kanji. Very easy just requires some effort on your part.

>>12823747
I mention that because I can watch as just a normal part of my life now. I read wiki articles, news, etc in Japanese too. I've had job offers too for my Japanese skills(even without a degree) for Japanese speaking jobs.

>>12826900
>I think it might be normal because it's like that for me as well. Not just with Kanji but with other things as well
Of course its normal. That's the whole point of (spaced or whatever) repetition, you keep doing it until it sticks.

I have awful English pronouncation as it is, and I can't for the heck of me figure out the difference between tsu and su. They say to put your tongue at the tip of your mouth and curl your tongue and say sue. But I seriously cannot hear a difference.

>>12826949
pronounce it like "two/to" (in english) except pretend there's an "s" somewhere in the middle, and make sure it's still one syllable.

>>12826949
If you want to try and force it to find out where your tongue should be, say "su" a bunch, feel how your tongue curls up and doesn't touch your mouth. Changing to "tsu" is very similar, but moving your tongue forward just a bit so that it touches your teeth. From another angle, if you can just make "ts" noises you're already 80% of the way there, since it's really just "ts" while vocalizing.

>>12826949
Did you try saying different words? Like Tatsuta and Tasuta or Natsu and Nasu. There might not be a difference sometimes though. Like in Tsunako. or maybe there's something I'm missing.

>>12817505
I guess I'm going to finally bother learning some nip.

>>12827995
Good luck to you. I just started about a month ago.

>>12826898
Noob, true weebs use browser extensions like rikaichan to read weeb content.

>>12826497
I ask friends with more experience in the language than me.

>>12826773
Hiragana seems to be easier for me than katakana dunno why. I suck horse shit at japanese grammar though

>>12826663
I think rikaichan makes it too easy to just look up everything and not really learn the language

>>12830074
If you're still learning katakana perhaps you should hold off on the grammar for now.

>>12830230
If you learn grammar but not katakana you can read 75% of stuff out there, but if you know katakana and not grammar you can't read shit. (Okay, you can get the signs, names, and loanwords but that still isn't shit.)

>>12830074
It was tougher for me too. Until you're about 85-90% comfortable with katakana, only dip your toes in grammar imo. Learning some common vocab helps a lot as well. Like that other guy said, grammar is infinitely more useful, BUT you'll spend years learning grammar. Katakana should only take a few weeks at most and you'll be mostly done forever.

>>12818936
............................holy fucking shit thats so smart

>>12816171
I managed to memorized about 1k+ kanjis, i know that feel. Although I need to work on my vocab and grammar now.

Trying to learn Japanese gives me some sympathy for Japanese people trying to learn English.

>>12831370
> learning kanji on its own

Get anki, core 2k, and learn you bitch.

Also OP here
Completely forgot I made this thread

>>12831417
I'm using kanji damage to learn my kanji. Tried core 2k but didn't worked well for me, at least in tems of memorizing kanjis.

>>12831425
Learning Kanji on its own isn't really that important though.
You should really try core2k again and stop by /djt/ on /a/ man. They give good advice. I really don't want to see you doing it wrong

>>12831430
Thanks for the concern man. I'll give it a shot again sometime. Should be easier this time around since I memorized quite a bit of kanji

>>12831442
You just have to keep trying everyday. You don't have to be autistic about it but you still have to work hard. I hope you make it.

>>12831447
Yeah, I'm doing some learning everyday a bit. I've been doing this for few months already now. I wish I did this earlier like in high school, then I should be pretty good now.

Oh well, less complaining, more learning. Thanks again for the concern and support, anon

I've just finished learning Kana and I'm about to move on to Kanji. I'm thinking about starting with either Genki or RTK, but I'm worried that RTK only gives mnemonics for the meanings and that it will be awkward trying to implement the readings and contexts afterward. Can anyone recommend starting with RTK?

>>12831605
RTK isn't really a good way to do it. Just download anki and do the core2k and learn vocab and get kanji learning with it

Merry Christmas everybody

>>12832230
Merry Christmas.

Thanks for the recommendation. I'll start doing the core2k now while going through the grammar resources.

>>12817505
I've learned more kanji reading lns with kanjitomo than anki. Doing anki is just boring as shit.

>>12818112
It's all up to the person I guess. I haven't actively tried to learn Japanese that much, it's just a pain honestly, I just paid attention while watching anime and learned to understand it. If you hear the same words over and over then they'll stick and with any agglutinative language if you remember the particles you pretty much know the grammar as well. After that I learned hiragana and katakana, there's not much to it you spend a couple hours memorising and there you have it. At this point I can read some kanji maybe some hundred but I mostly just use ith for vns and kanjitomo for lns. If it grows on me over the years and manage to learn more kanji then good but if not then I don't really care I can already read pretty much anything I want.

>>12832352

It's a good start, though.
Getting a month or two in Anki and moving on to reading LN or Manga is probably the best way of learning. Keeps you getting vocab AND lets you actual translate stuff.

>>12832815
I guess it's not bad to get used to looking at kanji, but there's no way in hell I'd learn more than a 100 kanji with anki. It depends on how quick you learn I guess, but I doubt you'd be 2000+ kanji with 2 months. And you kinda need that with lns. I mean if you can read this with 2 months of anki then props to you. Manga with furigana are good though.

>>12832860
the most difficult part is always compound kanji for me. i recognize most of what I see there individually, but have no idea what they mean all paired up.

>>12833068
Well that's what the majority of Japanese vocab is. You're not going to be able to guess the meaning just based on the kanji either 90% of the time, so whip out that dictionary.

>>12826871
>I just want to help translate things.
Do you really? Once you learn Japanese, you'd rather just enjoy all the new media you have access to than waste huge amounts of time making substandard translations for dumb, unappreciative plebs.

Should the first step always be learning Katakana and Hiragana? Or are Kanji overall more important?

>>12833206
>You're not going to be able to guess the meaning just based on the kanji

I'd say 90% of the time you actually can.

>>12833206
I hear you, just comes with practice i suppose.

>>12833229
That's like asking if you should first learn how to walk or run marathons.

Learning the kana takes like a few hours, learning the kanji may take even a few years.

>>12832860
Remembering the Kanji by James W. Heisig.
Read this and apply these methods. I found it awesome.
Anki is good for learning vocab, I wouldn't learn kanji that way though.

>>12833206

Seriously?
I find that most of the time you CAN tell what they mean by the Kanji. Granted, not ALL can but usually you can. Way more than the actual words, too.

Take a look at 来年 and 今年.
Both involve the kanji for year. However, in 来年 the last kanji is pronounced nen. In 今年, it's pronounced toshi.

Just looking at the words in Romanji or hiragana, you probably wouldn't tell they were related. But thanks to the kanji you can work it out through recognition that they really mean (Come-Year) and (Now-Year).

Kanji is the SHIT even if it can be retarded sometimes.

>>12833767
今年 can be read as こんねん or こんとし.

>>12833868

Still, doesn't change the fact that 今年 will ALWAYS mean this year, regardless of how its pronounced.
I could have gone with the different student examples too but that was more typing than I was willing to put in.

Hey, I'm confused about the following sentence:
「おおおお！くつはこのまえ新しいの買ってもらった！」
[On the page before, the girl asks about her shoes.]

I'm guessing it means kinda like:
"Aaaaah! These shoes are recent, new ones were bought for me"

Though I think I'm wrong so yeah.
Is このまえ modifying 新しい here? What's the purpose of the の in the sentence? I took it as it being もの.

>>12833897
Omitted noun.

>>12833912
Therefore:「くつはこのまえ。新しいもの｛を/が｝買ってもらった」?

>>12833897
It's like "one/ones" in English.

"As for shoes, I got some new ones a little while ago."

>>12833868

it's never read こんとし..

http://gogen-allguide.com/ko/kotoshi.html

I'm ready to bully my penis!

>>12833937

くつはこのまえ新しいくつを買ってもらった

>

I got some new shoes the other day

i need help on what there asking on 14 and 15
on 16 can i use サンドイッチとパンかきと(eggs)をたべました
17 and 18 what do the second questions/sentences want to ask
20 i dont understand
どうぞ please help

>>12817672
he's probably native english user

the only thing stoping me from learning more than basic(tourist) japanese is that i already know 2 idioms and im going to learn basic(tourist) russian first

>>1283437
14. What can you find (dead object) in ***'s house? How many are there?
15. Same as 14, but living object. However, I'm not too sure about nanbiki. I think nanbiki means "how many" for small animals (someone correct me if I'm wrong)
17 & 18. I think the second part is "what kind of city was it?" So basically it's asking if you can describe that place with another adjective.

20. I'm not too sure either, but here's my guess on what they are asking.
20-1. Who did you go with?
20-2. What did you eat (probably with that person mentioned in first part)
20-3. How was it?

>>12834463
Ah shit, this was meant for >>12834379, sorry

>>12834379
>＊＊さんの うちに なにが ありますか。
What (object) is in your house? (It wants you to answer in the form of "There is/are a window/desk/TV/etc.)"
>いくつ ありますか。
How many of them are there? (Asking about the previous object)

>＊＊さんの うちに なにが いますか。
Very similar to the previous question, but the point here is that the verb has changed to indicate a living creature, such as a pet.
>なんびき いますか。
Again, how many (of x animal) are there?

>きょうは なにか たべましたか。
The なにか means "something", so this is a yes/no question.
>なにを たべましたか。
This one is asking what you ate.

>ロングビーチは おおきい ですか。
Yes/No question. Your answer looks okay, but I'd put a comma after the はい instead of a period. Then,
>どんな まち ですか。
The どんな is asking "what kind of", so you should describe the city (is it boring, exciting, warm, cold, etc.).

>(your hometown)は しずか ですか。
Again, yes/no question, so I'd keep the first bit as simple as possible (はい、しずか です。 or いいえ、しずか では ありません。).
>どんな まち ですか。
Again, it's asking what kind of town your hometown is.

>こんしゅう なにを しましたか？
Asking about what you did this past week.
>どこに いきましたか。
どこ is "where", so...

>だれと いきましたか。
だれ is "who/whom", and putting と after a person means "with ~", so "With whom did you go?" (referring to your answer to 19).
>なにを たべましたか。
This one is also referring to the place that you talked about in 19.
>どう でしたか。
どう means "how", and this one is again referring to the place in 19. Your answer for this one could be as simple as "It was fun" or "It was crowded" or something.

>>12834463
>>12834481

>>だれと いきましたか。
>だれ is "who/whom", and putting と after a person means "with ~", so "With whom did you go?" (referring to your answer to 19).
so how can you tell the diffrence when someone says "so you were with chad and who" because と could be "and" or "also" and now i learned from you that と could be used "with someone" as well
heres just an idea i know will be wrong but would it be あなたのとと (word for together)ました

>(dead object)
kek but can you really use that for an a courpse (even if it is extreamly rude)

>>ロングビーチは おおきい ですか。
>Yes/No question. Your answer looks okay, but I'd put a comma after the はい instead of a period. Then,
>>どんな まち ですか。
>The どんな is asking "what kind of", so you should describe the city (is it boring, exciting, warm, cold, etc.).
>>(your hometown)は しずか ですか。
>Again, yes/no question, so I'd keep the first bit as simple as possible (はい、しずか です。 or いいえ、しずか では ありません。).
>>どんな まち ですか。
>Again, it's asking what kind of town your hometown is.
stupid question really but i live in the same city (ロングビーチ) should i put something similar it seams lazy but its hard for a general idea for a city maybe i can say its きれい or something

also i tend to awnser the first question then the second one as two diffrent sentences although do people question like in the worksheet or is it just waterdown so we (my class) dont get confused (beginners class)

thanks alot for the help i really appreciate how helpfull you guys and all of /jp/ really is even.if so lewd

>>12834799
>so how can you tell the diffrence when someone says "so you were with chad and who" because と could be "and" or "also"
Not sure if I understand your question properly or not, but as in English, you don't have to put "with" twice - so the Japanese would be similar.

>Whom were you with (along with Chad)?
>チャッドと だれと いましたか。
or
>チャッドの ほかに だれと いましたか。
(Whom were you with other than Chad?)

>but can you really use that for an a courpse (even if it is extreamly rude)
It is rude, but yes, it can be used when referring to a corpse (and is used as such in detective dramas and the like).

>i live in the same city (ロングビーチ) should i put something similar
I would put something different - it shows you're making an effort in your class.

>do people question like in the worksheet or is it just waterdown so we (my class) dont get confused (beginners class)
A bit of both. But at your level, you should take each question one at a time.

>>12834799
Oh, I forgot about this one.

>would it be あなたのとと (word for together)ました
Close - for "I went (there) with you", you would say
>あなたと いきました。

>>12833262
I don't know, looking at that 好奇心 being "like strange heart", meaning curiousity and 専門 "mainly gate" meaning specialty. Some of the simple ones you can tell but generally anything slightly advanced is just pretty much impossible to figure out even if they're logical. What's worth remembering is stuff like 心 being -shin in compound words and 的 being -teki.

>>12833206
>You're not going to be able to guess the meaning just based on the kanji either 90% of the time

You know you're talking to a beginner when...

To be fair, it's often hard to grasp what kanji truly means before going through its compounds first. And you need to understand the concepts behind words to recognize them, that's got to be a huge obstacle for some.

>>12832860
I'm just not sure what おしなべて好奇心 is supposed to mean. General curiosity? So detectives are moved by what people generally curious about?

>>12834986
I don't know what the gate is doing there, but 専 means specialization in the first place (it's "mainly" in the same sense as "maining" a character from the game's roster). And come on, what exactly is hard to understand about a heart fond of the strange? (It's really no different from fairly straightforward terms like 愛国心.)

>>12835046
Backtracking is always easy.

>>12835034
I think it's more like, "In general, most detectives are motivated by curiosity."

>>12835058
There should be a particle between oshinabete and koukishin then I feel like. Like this it feels like general refers to curiosity and not "in general".

>>12835062
I don't think おしなべて takes a particle - it applies to 動かされる rather than 好奇心.

>>12835066
Hmm maybe I don't know. Those examples don't feel like they help much if おしなべて劇の批評は好評だった means the same thing and doesn't make it general play or something then fair enough. Because in the example it's obvious that it was generally liked but if it's at the start of the sentence then I don't know if it works the same way.

>>12835062
Think of it this way: て is a continuative verb ending, it refers you to the next verb for more specifics or information. If it was meant to refer directly to the following noun, it'd be something finalizing like る or た instead, perhaps even nominalized with の.

This remains true even if the original verb is no longer functional outside of this set expression. Because why wouldn't it?

>>12835106
Oshinabete is an adverb not a verb though so I don't think any of that matters at all.

>>12835106
Ah you mean to look at naraberu as the verb, I guess. I'm still not sure though you wouldn't say tabete so mochi wo kudasai so why would you say oshinabete koukishin ni ugoku not koukishin ni oshinabete ugoku.

>>12833262
No

>>12835117
Right - おしなべて is an adverb, so it will be modifying the verb of the clause, which is 動かせれている.

>>12835133
I'm not sure what you mean by たべてそもちをください, but I think おしなべて好奇心に動かされている and 好奇心におしなべて動かされている are both fine, though the former seems to flow better than the latter for whatever reason.

>>12835274
I meant to say sono, so you wouldn't say tabete sono mochi wo kudasai instead of sono mochi wo tabete kudasai. But whatever.
Uhh I'll believe if you say so, I'm still not sure why it's placed like that.

>>12835286
Ah, well the verb should come at the end regardless, unless you pull one of these: たべてください、そのもちを.

As long as you keep the basic structure of S-O-V, you can mess with the other bits of grammar quite a bit and still have it mean the same thing. English is much more dependent on word order than Japanese is because Japanese has particles and whatnot that act as obvious markers for the parts of speech.

I asked my Japanese husband just now, and he agreed that it sounds better to put おしなべて at the beginning (though he can't explain why). I think it's one of those things that you have to get a feel for...

>>12835301
Aight thanks, guess it's just the matter of getting used to.

>>12835301
>I asked my Japanese husband just now
A-are you a japanese housewife?

>>12835330
she is an american english teacher in japan

>>12835274
>>12835301
>>12835301
おしなべて is actually an adverb, but it can be recognized as a conjunctive form of a verb おしなべる. (Note:this verb does not exist or is hardly used)
So the sentence like 好奇心におしなべて〜 gives an funny impression that curiosity is doing "おしなべる".
If it is at the beginning, no subject can be found, then ,readers clearly recognize it as an adverb.

What does おしなべてmean anyway?

>>12835726
something about pleasure and cumming inside but I don't exactly know

>>12835705
In the examples that this guy posted it's in the middle of the sentence though >>12835066

>>12835737
beginning is ok in most cases.
when it is in the middle , depends on the words before.

Why aren't you using amphetamine you stupid faggot?

>>12823934
It has been officially confirmed from several authoritative sources that Japanese is __THE__ hardest language for a native english speaker to learn

>>12835770
Sounds like bullshit to me, but then again I'm not a native English speaker so I wouldn't know.

>>12835773
FSI
http://www.effectivelanguagelearning.com/language-guide/language-difficulty
NSA
https://www.nsa.gov/public_info/_files/cryptologic_spectrum/foreign_language.pdf

Page 10 on that pdf

>>12835773
latino here, for me it's really easy to pronounce it since it sounds really familiar, except for some vowels that become mute during speech

as for the grammar it is a pain in the ass, but its takes time

>>12835781
>As we mentioned above, language is too varied to be
easily described or classified. The analysis offered here
is not presented as absolute or definitive, but it can
perhaps serve as a framework for further analysis and
investigation.
Umm.
>>12835786
I dunno, the sounds always seemed pretty easy for me, maybe for English speakers it's weirder. If you ever heard Chinese though Japanese sounds are heaven. The grammar always just seemed very straightforward to me but my native has like over 20 suffixes and particles so I guess Japanese is a stroll in comparsion.

Are there seriously people who do less than 100 new cards a day in anki? You know you'll never learn Japanese, right?

>>12835863
have you learnt it yet?

>>12835863
It's not a good idea to study that amount in a day. You'll probably forget most of them if you cram that kind of amount in a day.

Then again, it depends on which anki deck you are referring to.

This shit makes absolutely no sense.
I'm fine with kanji and all the different readings, but the grammar just kills me.
It's so frustrating when even though I know all the words in a sentence I still have no idea what it's trying to say.
Most of the time it's like a guessing game or a puzzle that takes an hour to figure out the meaning of a single sentence when I already know all the words on their own.
Single words are fine but when it comes to long sentences, I'm lost.

And that's just reading, don't get me started on speech.
They're talking so fast most of the time I can't even tell where one word ends and another one begins.

And trying to construct sentences by myself? Hah, forget it.

At this point I feel like the only way for me to learn it is to kill myself and hope I get reborn as Japanese.

>>12835921
Take a class :^)

>>12835921
It's just suffixes, if you've learned german or latin before getting a feeling for it shouldn't be that hard.
For the speech, I don't know. Watch more anime or something, there are radio shows and stuff too. Kamiya's is generally pretty funny too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDcJfpleCqs

>>12835935
>Watch more anime or something

Anime is much easier though.
I can understand a lot in anime, but when it comes to actual everyday conversations it's like a whole new level.
It's nothing like my Japanese animes!

>>12835921
Read a vn with jparser

>>12835942
Well I don't think you'd come across stuff that's more difficult than this for example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojtMxFCULuk
If you want to be superfluent in jap though then just go and move to japan there's no better way of learning everyday speech other than hearing it every day.

>>12835952
>If you want to be superfluent in jap though then just go and move to japan

I'd start packing my bags this instant, if only that was an option.

>>12835952
Yeah, that's way too fast for me to understand anything.
Only single words at best.

>>12835979
The anchorman or whatever speaks pretty fast but most of the stuff he says is just filler sentences, like introducing people and talking about the event. Past that it's not hard to understand what they say.

>>12835986
The anchorman is the worst.

>>12835952
fucking horie yui, watching her the whole time is the funniest shit

>>12816154
I feel your pain. It's not always the words either. It's usually context. Fuck, I understand every word in this sentence, but I have no idea what's going on:
はにーががんばってる以上俺もこー期待に答えてあれがそれするみたいな感じで。

>>12836704
>It's usually context. Fuck, I understand every word in this sentence, but I have no idea what's going on

This.
This is what I'm talking about.
I don't know if there's any other language where even if you understand all of the words you still have no idea what it means.
It's retarded.

>>12836704
>>12836829

>>12836899

>>12836829
>I don't know if there's any other language where even if you understand all of the words you still have no idea what it means.

How many other languages do you know?

>>12836829
>I don't know if there's any other language where even if you understand all of the words you still have no idea what it means.
No. Chinese: 不 = no 小 = small. 心 = heart
Then you come across 不小心, and you're like "what the fuck I know all the words, but no small heart no make sense" Until you realize 不小心 is a set phrase meaning "accident," but you didn't know because you were too lazy to learn the vocabulary.

I don't know what the Jap in >>12836704
says though.

>Take Japanese in University for two years
>After a lot of effort, I can finally make it through Yotsuba&

>Take Chinese for five months with same effort
>Already finished Ender's Game in Chinese, with little dictionary lookup for characters

I am beginning to think that Japanese is just a hard language if you did not grow up with it. All the middling, esoteric annoyances in Japanese just do not pop up in Chinese, and the characters seem to follow a more concise, logical connection between one another than Japanese.

Too bad the Chinese doujin scene sucks dick.

>>12837153
It's okay, there's twice as many JC translations as JE translations so you're halfway there.

>>12836704
I'm pretty sure the あれがそれする bit is intentionally ambiguous, as is much of the Japanese language.

>>12835726
おしなべて《押し並べて》 means "generally, in general".

>>12835330
What >>12835332 said. I just wanted to offer a native speaker's perspective.

>>12835705
Yeah, I can see what you mean there. Thanks.

>https://oldpiratebay.org/torrent/5709277/JapanesePod101-complete-snapshot-May-2012

This.

>>12836704
this is fucked up

>>12837153
Well Chinese characters tend to be much more staightforward than kanji. Japanese is a fucked up mess of tons of different readings, Chinese is usually just a single reading.

>>12837239
What's this?

>>12837411
Or so you think. They fucking do have alternative reading.

So they are both fucked up, and Chinese is worse since they have way much more characters.

>>12816154

>>12837972
I can read about 90% of this. I guess I'm still not good enough :/

>>12816154
Don't give up. That feel when you finally start to understand something, even the simplest sentence withouth using a text hooker feels so good... it's addicted.

>>12838300

>>12838318
you're trying to fit in the wrong board.

>>12838324

>>12838318
This is only true for the subhumans at /a/, by the way don't forget to bring this epic maymay back with you once you return there

>>12838340
>I really want to give up learning Japanese
>Its to hard
:^^^)

>>12838341
Nice implication, but I completed the "learning" phase years ago.

>>12816154
I really want to give up going to /jp/
its to hard

>>12838355
I'm just implying that you're retarded

>>12837153
Or maybe Chinese is just easier after you already spent two years learning Chinese characters and Chinese vocabulary.

>>12837444
Thank you anon

>>12837444

>>12838357
ganbare neba neba neba gibu appu anon

>>12840105
For what?

Its called Adderall anon.

>like 24 hours until the new year

I SWEAR I'LL START TRYING TO LEARN AT LEAST SOMETHING

>>12833401
>Anki is good for learning vocab, I wouldn't learn kanji that way though.

Are you saying that you didn't learn the associated kanji when you first learned a word?

>>12855581
Not him, but at least I often don't recognize kanji when it is alone even tho I can read it in jukugo.

Why are there so many subhumans from /a/ in such threads? The abudance of shit like greentext, suprise boxes and "anon" in here is overwhelming.

For the anons living in Japan, how did you get there? There are no Japanese classes in my area and I don't know of any exchange programs or even know where to start.

I just want to live in a nice cozy room in weebland. That is my only dream. ;_;

>>12856397
I went for an ESL teaching gig. It's one of the easiest ways to get into Japan for an extended period of time.

If that's not a possibility, look into the Sister Cities program - your city may have a sister city in Japan. Those programs often host exchanges.

>>12858756
I'm too awkward for that and my English is shit.

This thread has restored my faith in humanity.

>>12863127
How so?

>>12859145
You CAN'T be worse than the Japanese.

>>12863161
How are you even supposed to teach them English when you can't even speak Japanese?

>>12863547
The Japanese teacher teaches them English grammar. You're there for pronunciation and amusement.

>>12863567
Well anyone can do that so the chances of being chosen seems unlikely.

>>12816154
Don't feel bad anon. I'm pretty sure theirs quite a bit of nips who cant English either.

>>12816154
I really want to give up giving up japanese, my life is miserable without it

I'm planning to study Japanese by translating my favorite Japanese songs and comparing it with translations that someone has done. Will this work?

>>12863959
Yes. My friend did thar with his favorite manga. He's now a professional translator.

>>12863904
Ganbare neba neba neba gibu appu Anon-kun!

>>12863904
My life in miserable either way, no matter what I do.

>>12837153
>Take Japanese in University for two years
>After a lot of effort, I can finally make it through Yotsuba&

>tfw everything I heard about classes is true.

I want to go o a University to study Japanese and Cinese after a year in Japan, It's like I'll already done half of the exams.

>>12816154
Give up. Waste of your time only to read VNs and rot away masturbating.

Man, this thread is still up? /jp/'s slower than I was expecting, not that that's a bad thing.

Anyway, I recently decided to take the plunge and really try to learn Japanese from the very beginning, in earnest. I've got a pretty good grasp on kana, now, so I should work on grammar and vocabulary, right?

Speaking of which, does anyone know of some good books coming with audio CDs to practice listening? The more advanced the text, the better. I feel myself confident with my reading after one year of learning and practicing, but I still have trouble picking up spoken phrases.

Didn't want to start a new thread.

So I'm looking to improve my listening skills, any good websites to watch Japanese television? All the shit on youtube is subtitled unfortunately.

>>12818514
It's been a week, but this is pretty much... dumb. Tae Kim states the facts and that's it. How quickly you read through it is up to you. Do you want him to reiterate that だ is declarative five times? No, that's not necessary. Just re-read the page if you forget.

>>12866308
I guess he's looking for some grammar drills and practices

>>12866350
He could also be looking for more in-depth explanations. I read a book just now that was two hundred pages on the usage of yo and ne in conversational Japanese. Obviously nobody expects that much, but there could be more than a paragraph.

Then again, if you are looking for more, you should just get an actual grammar dictionary and not some introductory guide.

>>12866308
>Tae Kim states the facts and that's it.
It shouldn't be hard to see how that can be extremely unhelpful (depending on which facts are being stated and which are omitted).

>>12866407
>I read a book just now that was two hundred pages on the usage of yo and ne in conversational Japanese.
I'm not trying to say that there is 1 ultimate way to learn Japanese, but I think that just exposing yourself to a lot of native material, and acclimating yourself to the grammar that way, is far better for learning than extremely in-depth linguistic books. I imagine your book was in Japanese? If so, the act of reading the book would probably be more helpful than the book itself for him.
>>12866812
Not really. He explains the usage of a grammar point and provides a few examples. Anything more is superfluous. Either you understand it or you don't. Going into more detail will result in something like imabi, where the explanations are marred by their own complexity.

I just wish I knew how to study using Anki, do I write shit down, do I just go repeat everything until it eventually clicks or what?

>>12867605
anki is a bich. I find myself more confortable with memrise

>>12867605
Pretty much.
I've used it like this: I've had deck with words in kanji. Then whenever reviewing deck, if I could remember what does this word mean and how to read it, I would click "good" or "easy". If I remember only meaning, "hard", if I cannot remember meaning within 5 seconds, "again". 20 new cards and 150 reviews per day.
At the very beginning, I had to click "again" many times before I started remembering meanings, and was in despair, thinking I would never remember these kanji, but after ~1 month it suddenly started to sink in at very rapid rate and I started to recognize familiar words in japanese text.

>>12866096
ebin

I dont wanna make a new thread so this is probably the best place to ask,

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x262puc_jun-togawa-%E3%83%A2%E3%83%80%E3%83%BC%E3%83%B3%E3%82%B3%E3%83%AC%E3%82%AF%E3%82%B7%E3%83%A7%E3%83%B3-vol-4-%E6%B8%8B%E8%B0%B7%E3%83%91%E3%83%AB%E3%82%B3-space-parco-3-8f-%E7%8E%89%E6%A4%BF%E5%A7%AB-83-11-27_music

Can anyone understand what she is saying at 25:52 onwards?

I'm after the name of the song that follows

>>12867450
>exposing yourself to a lot of native material (...) is far better
And yet you prefer a sandbox with limited number of toys over comprehensive resources that would actually be useful with most of real-life material.

>>12816154
what show is this?

>>12836704
it (for whatever value of "it") feels like this (for this value of "this": "as long she tries her best, I also want to meet her expectation")

something like that?

>>12865206
Want a simple answer? Just go to the DJT and read the pastebin.
Grab Anki + Core2k/6k Optimized for Vocab.
Read Tae Kim and/or Genki for Grammar.
After Tae Kim, 'read' and mine vocab out of a manga that will keep you attention.
Use Rikai to import the words into a custom deck on Anki.

I got $100 to Barnes and Noble in giftcards. Anything there worth buying? Had a lot on the website but most had no reviews and just simple phrase books.

I've learned most of the hiragana and starting the katakana now. Don't know much about grammar yet though.

>>12867903
Brynhildr in the Darkess.

>>12870941
I don't know if you can buy it at Barnes and Noble but >>12833401 talked about a book. Dunno how good it is though.

>>12816154
Learn Tae Kim

>>12871155
It's there but at $35 seems high but i'll look up some reviews online as it may be worth the price.

>>12872602
Good goyim, give Heisig money for his useless book.

>>12872733
>Look up reviews
>May be worth the price

Never said i'd instantly be buying it shekler.

>>12872744

You can get the PDF online for free with a bit of googling.
Honestly, I didn't really like his method. Its true he comes up with some good mnemonics for remember Kanji, but he doesn't really teach you them. Its the same problem I have with Anki, but Anki is free and is good for vocab.

Both are made for recognition rather than remembering.

By 2020 I should have full understanding of japanese. Already started this year, reading through a few nukige to learn the hiragana+katanaka pronunciations and it's going great so far.

I checked out a few guides but fuwa-fags say that I'll have to use a hooking program+machine tl topkek I started learning from instinct, alphabet first etc..

>>12872759
I wouldn't use his method solely for learning Kanji.
For me, I did all of the Core 2k and about half of the 6k and then jumped into Heisig.
I also got the Heisig Anki Deck since there are 2 other guys that give their own mnemonics to go with the kanjis since some of Heisigs are a little out there.
I was having trouble with certain Kanji, but after doing some Heisig, it helped reinforce them a bit.

Why a single DJT thread in /jp/ is miles better than 10 DJT thread in /a/?

>>12876129
/a/'s thread must be impossibly shitty if this thread is better than it.

>>12876129
What's /a/'s DJT like? How bad could it possibly be?

>>12876156
>drug addicted people who want to learn japanese.
>150 new card a day or you'll never learn japanese

>>12876190
>drug addicted people who want to learn japanese.
What?

Is learning kanji the best thing before grammar?

>>12876192
dont you know the take amphetamine meme?

>>12876216
No, but I know the adderall meme

If anyone is willing to read through the following blogshit, I'd like some help. I'm facing some kind of issue here.

I'm a 21 year old student who's currently at university, doing my Bachelor and learning foreign languages. My third foreign language is Moon and I wuv Moonland and all but I can't seem to be able to build the needed motivation to correctly learn my kanji and vocabulary.

See, I was always some kind of lazy student: always got pretty good (not that awesome tho) marks in my studies without doing much. But this is not helping because, despite being willing to go to Japan either for next 夏休み or studying Japanese there for a whole year next year.

I feel like I need to take some time off to really focus on one thing, to master, but, not to mention that it's impossible to think about this with my parents, I'm also stuck in a current obsession with anime, which is really impairing me, and my mental force isn't strong enough to get away from it.

If anyone has advices on how to get a little more considerate, more focused (and also less whiny about such a 1st world problem), I'd be willing to listen to any advice that doesn't basically say "Man the fuck up, grab your books and learn!".

>>12876226
Yeah, I've seen idiots on /a/ boasting about taking "weird little pills" that help them learning about 100 kanji a day. Not that it seems very recommendable.

>>12876260
"See, I was always some kind of lazy student: always got pretty good (not that awesome tho) marks in my studies without doing much. But this is not helping because, despite being willing to go to Japan either for next 夏休み or studying Japanese there for a whole year next year, I also have other things (some pretty useless IMO) to learn at my university and I'm unable to focus.*"

Forgot that part.

>>12876196
Learn Hiragana/Katakana.
Grammar/Vocab/Kanji next at the same time. >>12868003

>>12876260
>>12876265
Listen up. If you are serious about learning Japanese at all, you need to set up a daily routine.
I don't care how busy you are, you need to study each and every day.
I don't care if it's just doing anki, playing Japanese video games, reading manga, or even watching anime. Do something Japanese related. A little each day can go a long way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxGRhd_iWuE

Noob question maybe-
My main roadblock right now is I can't hear double vowels(for want of a better term), is that just something that comes with time, or am I doin it wrong?

>>12816198
>an anime textbook
a what now

i need some help on 24
where it says -さんのうち、ねこ。。。does uchi still mean house or does it claim possestion of the cat

>>12879105
＊－さんのうちに、ねこがいますか。
At -name-'s house, there's a cat.

の is possesive for whoever the sentence is talking about.

>>12879138
after the neko sentense it also asks for a dog and what is its name after what do

>>12879189
Also forgot to mention the か acts as the question mark, so it was asking if there is a cat.

＊－さんのうちに、ねこがいますか。いぬがいますか。なまえはなんですか。

います= いる「居る」

These sentences are just asking if there are cats or dogs in the house. If so, what are their names.

>>12880993
thanks mate for bringing me closer to a japanese waifu

oh also in て form is くた mean negative past tense (using it on しました(#25)) because i didnt do any sports or watched any movies last week

>>12881045
What was your answer for #25
I assume you want the Polite form of negative past tense for する?

>>12881061
correct
also take a look at
>#32 & #33 #34
i cant find any of these in my dictionary いくら「でした」, ちいちい「ですか」, and ゆく( the dictionary tells me ゆくmeans to go or die but it doesn't fit with the sentence)
look arround the ones not filled are the ones i need help on really
thanks for all the support though im really pleased

>>12881999
しませんでした is the Polite Negative Past form for する.
せんしゅう、わたしはスポーツをしませんでした。もえいがをしませんでした。

いくらでしたか。 is asking how much the computer costs.
いくら - How much/many?

I'm actually not sure what ちいちい means.

ゆく?
Do you mean よく?

>>12882261
Yes I meant よく
also in もえいがをしませんでした。
what is も used as

>>12882338
too/also. You might want to omit that from the sheet if you haven't learned that yet. Unless you want to impress your sensei.
I would recommend getting Rikai for Firefox/Chrome so you can easily look up stuff and try out beta.jisho.org
Also, take a look into Tae Kim's Grammar guide, it'll help you learn the basic essentials for grammar.

>>12882365
thanks ill install the add on and book mark it will do you really helped me out have my favorite image as a token of my gratitude

>>12882527
No problem. If you ever decide to go to /a/, check out the DJT there and read the pastebin. A bunch of useful resources and links that will help you.
Got anymore photos like that?

>>12882550
well i dont have any pictures close to that but i have this
>
sure ill check it out but how is the "how is your japanese going" /jp/ in comparison

How difficult is the level of japanese in Yoake Mae yori Ruri Iro na?
I have only been studying for a few months, and started reading Hanahira, but I wasn't motivated to continue reading, and after reading the translation of Yoake I just continued on with the untranslated parts.
I am progressing slowly with the help of Jparser, but I don't know if this VN is too hard and how much it is actually helping me. Is it better to start reading easier VN's?