/jp/ - Otaku Culture

Because they like harmony hippie bullshit, taoist is cooler yo.

>>12520255
>Buddhism

Isn't this the only "religion" that doesn't have a god together with Shinto which shares similarities for some reason?

If the Buddhists knew the truth they would kill themselves.

>>12520283
Shinto has many, many gods.

>>12520283
> Isn't this the only "religion" that doesn't have a god
No, not even close.

>>12520255
Futo's such a cute dork

>>12520255
Because of Lisa Simpson. Not even joking.

>>12520255
>Why is Buddhism so awfully appealing to trendy white kid pop-orientalist hipsters, who know very little about religions and history?
Because Tibetan's made it a cultural commodity.

>>12520283
>Isn't this the only "religion" that doesn't have a god together with Shinto which shares similarities for some reason?
No, Shintoism has many gods. Also, Buddhism and Shintoism in Japan have sort of blended together a lot because of the bizarre cultural developments they've had and its effect on religion.

>>12520313
It's probably been 20 years since I saw it, but I thought that episode was satire aimed those types of people. They've been around longer, at least.

>>12520330
She's been a Buddhist for 15 years. The writers are all jewish, so they don't have any problem with it.

>>12520325
>Tibetans
Goes like this

Sri Lankan and Thailander etc westernize Buddhism in response to Protestant missionaries
Later gets picked up by West
Buddhists missionaries later make it more palatable to the west new age type by removing dogmatic elements
Finally it is watered down by rich white suburbanites who don't know jack("Reincarnation is a metaphor, Buddhism is not a religion/a peaceful religion).

Buddhism is satanic.

>>12520360
>Buddhism is not a religion
What the hell, people actually say/believe that?

Buddhism is a mind virus that tries to convert lazy people to anti-intellectualism. Its concept of "enlightenment" is nothing more than striving to weaken one's mind until only the most superficial kind of consciousness remains. I think it's probably even worse than suicide.
It's pretty easy to get into it because it mostly doesn't make any sense, you just have to "contemplate" supposed paradoxes, which are in fact simple puns.

>>12520372
Quite often. There's a Buddhism thread on /lit/ right now with some pretty stupid replies.

>>12520379
Oh yeah, didn't Byakuren say that Koishi was close to enlightenment or something? So basically enlightenment is emptiness?

>>12520383
Damn

>>12520383
>>>/lit/5482435

hory shit

>>12520384
Enlightenment is a good thing, you get to see a qt 3.14 like pic related

>>12520343
I think that episode is when I started noticing the show going down hill. The Tony Hawk one was the point of no return.

>>12520360
>a peaceful religion
I remember seeing in the news a bunch of shit about Buddhist monks and Muslims killing each other in Burma.

If there's anything I've learned, it's that as long as any religion is closely tied to state power, "peaceful" isn't really part of its lexicon anymore.

>>12520395
Damn, I have no words for that post

>>12520384
As I understand it, enlightenment is exiting the cycle of samsara. Samsara is said to be suffering(the translation is closer to an "unsatisfactory state").

>>12520401
>qt 3.14
Not gonna lie, it took me a second to figure that out

>>12520395
You know, reading over this post again, it's like he stuffed every stereotype he could into it. The only thing he forget to mention is being a vegan communist middle class suburbanite.

>>12520416
People will abuse anything they can get their hands on to secure their interests.

>>12520416
What I heard was that the Muslims were picking a fight with the monks first, annexing their living space and shit

>Buddhism

I think you are mistaking it for Soka Gakkai, that's the form of Buddhism that most pretend hipster uphold in the west. If you know something about its organization and money making opportunities, it's no mystery why they have been trying to spread it since the 90s.

>>12520459
The entire thing and the history of the area is a clusterfuck.

>>12520379
You're confusing it with Confucianism, Confucianism is the real scourge of religions, never forget it. It's a cult that mantains to keep the status-quo of society, but in reality the mentality of having to follow what your ancestors do merely because your ancestors did it only brings about stagnation and nepotism To see the full extents of the devastation that Confucianism can cause, all you need to do is taking a look and Joseon Korea. Confucianism dragged the whole country to African savagery, despite being sandwiched between two relatively modern countries (China and Japan), and turned it into a hermit kingdom.

>>12520432
Samsara is the cycle of Birth, Death, and Reincarnation, right? How exactly would you exit that?

>>12520507
"Fuck off, I don't exist anymore"

>>12520416
>>12520360
I don't understand how anyone could call Buddhists peaceful ever. Haven't they heard of Shaolin? Of Kung Fu?

>>12520500
Woah form the thumbnail I thought it was a pic of mexicans with big sombreros.

>>12520507
>How would you exit that
I can't put it succinctly. Study the buddhist concept of enlightenment briefly and you'll get an idea.

>>12520546
I think it is described as a bit more nuanced than just killing off your soul/self/buzzword.

>>12520567
Where do souls go after when they die?

>>12520610
They turn into that stuff you get in the drying machine after using it too many times without cleani

>>12520614
I thought it was the white stuff comes out from your navel.

>>12520546
>implying that shit like kungfu, shaolin and instant chi knock out attacks aren't cool as fuck

Because it's zen dude

>>12520255
Because you can shave your head bald and save on shampoo.

>>12520277
Tao wins by default coz nature. and well fuck it!

>>12520409
the jumping the shark episode ya think. I suppose but homers kick flip was catched high not fell on 2. so I chortled.

>>12520384
>So basically enlightenment is emptiness?
Close enough.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satori#Satori_and_kensh.C5.8D

Just curious, what exactly does this topic have to do with otaku culture, besides the vague connection to Touhou?

>>12520255
If you ask me...people want to understand that which cannot be understood, and religion fulfills that desire. However, Christianity is nowadays considered something for old people and dumb people (I mean like we proved evolution so God obviously doesn't exist, man, what kind of retard believes that old shit) and people are taught all Muslims are terrorists (and/or as dumb as Christians because Science knows everything and it hasn't proven God's existence), so Buddhism is next in line. It also helps that Buddhism is popularly known to be about attaining enlightenment and finding knowledge within yourself, catering to this generation's desire for individualism and feeling smart.

>>12520711
Superior emptiness coming through

>>12520713
Because we are religion otaku, baka.

>>12520728
Christ would cut out his heart out for you and me!

>>12520285
More gods to go around. I respect that.

>>12520255
>Why is Buddhism so awfully appealing to trendy white kid pop-orientalist hipsters, who know very little about religions and history?

The exotic attracts. If they researched Buddhism more in-depth, they'd realize what they're running away from (Christianity) isn't that much different from what they're running to (Japanese Buddhism).

Most Japanese Buddhists belong to the Shin sect which is very similar to Lutheran Christianity. Faith-alone is enough, one is justified by an Other-Power, and no works necessary for salvation. As Shinran said: "even good people can go to the Pure Land, so it goes without saying that evil people will"

Moreover Christianity has a tradition that is so profound that there's no reason to look for spirituality in Buddhism... there's no insight that is in the Buddhist philosopher Nagarjuna but lacking in Christian German philosophers like Kant and Hegel.

So it's just they're attracted to the exotic. I speak from experience, because I was so enamored with Zen Buddhism that I traveled to Japan and actually lived in a Zen temple for a while.

>>12520866
From what you said I can only assume you know no shit about buddhism or religion in general.

>>12520866
>I traveled to Japan and actually lived in a Zen temple for a while
How was it? I want to try something like that at least once.

>>12520500
Confucianism is not a religion. And if its so bad how come it kept the Chinese state stable for 8000 years?

I tought all the kool kids like Nietzsche

>>12521278
Nietzsche is pretty cool

>>12521192
They warred, killed each other, were conquered and had their throne usurped by inferior outsiders during all that time. China is actually a fluid entity and never stayed constant for its whole existence.

>>12521278
Commies love oriental stuff, /pol/ highschoolers love Nietzsche

>>12521368
Wait, are you saying Nietzsche isn't actually cool? I always thought some of his quotes were pretty memorable.

>>12521373
Because his whole theory goes full stupid after God is dead.

>>12521379
Oh, does it really? That sucks. His Abyss and Seek to it that you don't turn into a monster quote is still cool though.

>>12521379
>>>12521373
*Tips mitre*

>>12520546
Aren't both of them more a passive force?
Defending instead of attacking?
I think they mean peaceful in the sense of not letting wrath roam free and controlling your body, instead of energy as a devastating torrent you'd have a calm river.
Elephants are seen as peaceful beings, but they're nevertheless strong as fuck.

Peaceful doesn't mean don't do shit whatever happens like Ghandi did.

>>12521500
When anyone says 'peaceful' in relation to religion, they mean "not blowing yourselves up, starting wars all the time, or going on crusades" 100% pacifist type. They believe Buddhism doesn't have a history of bloodshed or something.

>>12520774
Amen.

>>12521367
I hate to break it to you. but everyone did that during that time period. I.E. Rome, Greece, Persia, etc....

I never said Confucianism was peaceful. I'm just saying it worked really fucking well alongside Legalism and Daoism.

there needs to be a philosophy board for this shit.

I think people are confusing the esoteric types of buddhism and the commoner's type of buddhism.

The buddhism that was prevalent in large parts of the world, and accessible to the lower classes was similar to Christianity in the west. All about salvation, setting people's mind at ease, controlling people, and mired with a history of bloodshed.

The "higher" schools of buddhism have no divinities, focus on the release from suffering and ego-death and are on the whole a lot more philosophical and cool. This is what appeals to western cool kids in colleges, and what often gets called a "not-religion", since it's so different from conventional religions.

Why is Shinto so appealing to unwashed Japanophilic nerds, who don't know much about it? Actually, that question kind of answers itself.

>>12522671
One advantage of the 2ch-type model is that you never have the "no board for X" problem.

>>12520416
>implying religious texts are ever not fabricated to serve an exclusively political end
>implying religious cannon isn't irreconcialably ambiguous and thus perpetually open to the most abusive of interpretations

I raise you one disdainful pixel girl.

>>12522667

The chinese literally killed 70% of their population every century or less with civil wars. Even rome at its retard peak point wasn't that inefficient. Confucianism is what brought them back each time they could have reached a next step. It's the equivalent of spain becoming shit because "lol U better not lend or borrow money you jewish faggot or I call the inquisition" but 1000 times worse. A whole society that regards merchants and investors as subhuman faggots worse than peasants can only become shit over time.

>>12522636

Buddhists have a story of batshit insane wars over the right of marrying crossdressing little boys.

>>12522703

>The "higher" schools of buddhism have no divinities, focus on the release from suffering and ego-death and are on the whole a lot more philosophical and cool.

Buddhism has so much divinities it hurts. The majority of the branches even consider buddha to basically be God.

>>12522757

merchants and investors were regarded as subhuman faggots throughout the majority of history in most of the world. It's hardly something exclusive to China.

>>12522703
>The "higher" schools of buddhism have no divinities
It is nontheistic but not atheistic. They don't really go over those types of questions, but Buddha met the fucking Brahman and spoke of hindu deities often.
>>12522777
That is the type he refers to in his second sentence. I had a friend who who was raised as a buddhist, she would say superstitious things like "Don't stare at the ladyboy, the buddha will make your child one".

>>12522801
especially in countries like India. even after silk road trade made many of them far wealthier than even most Brahmins and Kshatriyas.

>>12522830
>it is non-theistic but not atheistic
this is not quite true. for Theravada Buddhism this is absolutely true. however for Mahayana Buddhism the Buddha is venerated to a degree that he is considered divine.

>>12520711
“Enlightenment is a destructive process. It
has nothing to do with becoming better or being happier. Enlightenment is the
crumbling away of untruth. It's seeing
through the facade of pretence. It's the
complete eradication of everything we
imagined to be true.”
―Adyashanti
Felt like this belongs here. Don't you think?.

>>12522713
>Why is Shinto so appealing to unwashed Japanophilic nerds, who don't know much about it?
Pic related

Why do people assume only religion is what causes conflict and not opinions.
State atheist countries do the same shit

Non-communist socialist flavour
Revolutionary France:
Cult of reason and the cult of the supreme being

Revolutionary Mexico:
Calles law and the Cristero war

Communist:
USSR: league of the militant godless
China: Red guard
North Korea: juche
Cambodia:Khmer rouge

>>12523720
I am no expert in Mexico, bu rather than a conflict of opinions it was a conflict of power.
The mexican state in the country was reduced to a simple office in a big town while the Vatican had a church in every indian 2 people village. The church occupied the position of the State (taxes, birth marriages) meaning that the Vatican actually controlled many parts of the country. Cristeros were armed guerrillas financed by a church that didn't want to lose his power.

>>12523720
Most people who say shit like that are just stupid white teenagers, who coincidentally are also the type who gobble up the commercialized new-agey sort of Buddhism people mention itt. The "without religion, people would be peaceful and harmonious" stuff goes against almost everything that we have observed of human nature in recorded history. (Religious) Violence has always been primarily political in motivation. Even if religious/ethno centrism may be an overall contributor to the divisions of these people, the immediate causes of most large-scale violence is political. People have been killed in the name of basically any ideology and every ideology is prone to zealotry.

>>12522830

>"Don't stare at the ladyboy, the buddha will make your child one".

We now have an explanation for all the crossdressing faggots in occident. It's an asian plot to make occident weak through trap porn.

i have never heard a white kid talking about Buddhism outside of East Asian History class. where are you getting this idea from?

I remember arguing with that dude who called me not understanding religion when I said not all religions are meant to be political, or created to be political in that Futo thread.

The dude was asking me to find non-organized religion (because organization = leader = politics) and I admit that was really hard, but in the end, I find an answer: Touhou.

Touhou itself is a religion, it is about belief and loving the "gods" being the characters, ZUN is the leader, the fans are the followers, the games and print works are the mythology/bible, the doujin works are basically non-canon heresies (which ZUN allows), it stays mostly non-violent and non-political, at least so far.

So there you have it, Touhou being an apolitical organized religion.

>>12525533
>implying Touhou isn't jewish propaganda
Good goy

>>12521398
That quote IS the best thing from Nietzsche
There is a reason why most people know it and only that
The rest isn't as amazing

>>12525533
>The dude was asking me to find non-organized religion

Tell him to look up Holy Fools
They give no shit about organized religions and care more about one's personal and individual relationship with God

Jeremiah knew what was up

After saying that, OP thinks it's cool to like Taoism instead.

>>12526046
I don't because I'm not a fucking wapanese.

>>12520384
Not to mention Sanae's ending in Hisoutensoku where they say the inflatable balloon mecha has attained enlightenment because it moves without thinking

>>12526170

Has my dick getting hard on its own attained enlightenment ?

>>12522735
>implying religious texts are ever not fabricated to serve an exclusively political end
The unfortunate thing is that a large portion of exegesis is done with the intent of critical thought with the key points surrounding spirituality.

It's a shame that most of those have been ignored in favor of grotesque interpretations furthering some political end.

>I raise you one disdainful pixel girl.
Call.

ZUN got a good case of this enlightenment idea.

Enlightenment, at least, is the buddhist sense, is free yourself of desire, but then again, the desire of enlightenment is a desire of itself, but one will not achieve enlightenment if one does not desire for it (even Koishi desires it when she wants to stop reading thoughts), so in the end, you do not escape from desire, you are just letting the desire of no desire controlling your state of mind.

It is quite paradoxical, like nothingness does not exist, because even if it does, then then we lose everything, we still have nothingness because it belongs outside of that everything, which is contradictory.

>>12520255
Dat exotic eastern flavor!

>>12527715
No, because yer dick is still overflowing with desire, like Sanae.

It's been a while since the last religion/philosophy thread on /jp/ that doesn't concern the discourse on Byakuren's jiggling boobs, so I guess I should turn my worldly desires off for once.

I'm not a Buddhist myself but still quite familiar with Buddhism's lore because native culture and shits. Western folks usually think Buddhism as just one whole inseperate religion, or more well informed ones might think there are a couple or two of branches, but in fact there are a BUTTLOAD of branches of Buddhisms, all claim to be the One True Way that Siddartha-sama himself advised people to follow.

As a side note, Sid was really the man, not even once did he claim himself to be of divinity or son of god or almighty god himself, or even a god amongs countless Indian gods at the time. At all. He just seeked the truth behind and the solution for the world's suffering, and after surpassed each and every of his many philosophical and religious teacher, he finally found a way.
The gods incorporated in Buddhism's lore and texts are actually just Hinduism gods, you know, like in Shinto, literally everything for those Indians could be a god so it was really just a matter of local convention and actually did not signify much about Buddhism.

So about the shit loads of branches each claims themself to be the True Buddhism, what is the actual truth?
Sid himself never wrote any text, he just, well, taught people whenever he saw appropriate, and after his death his students recalled from *their memories* all of his speaking and lectures, and of course there were splitting opinions amongs them about what to be written down and how should they write it. More confusion later when even that mess of texts were lost during the course of history, and the ancient language it was written in dying over time.
I don't remember if it happened during or after the Buddha's students writting down his teaching, but there was one major split: one branch called itself the Great Wheel/Vehicle, being more folk-friendly and advocating helping the common man reaching enlightenment, the other called itself the Elders' school, focusing on reaching enlightenment for themselves, along the line of secluded autist priests.
After that it went on a boom, everyone and their mother found a Buddhist school. I remember there were some obscure Tibetan one with a ritual where the coming-of-age monk has 3-ways sex with a virgin and his master, if he came out unshaken even after such lewd experience he would be considered enlightened, so so they thought. And Buddhism did have bloodshed in their history too, at least I remembered they had conflict with Islam in the old India and got almost massacred.

Siddartha himself didn't concern with external bullshit, he actually just practised meditation real hard after accummulated a lot of knowledge and real life experience, to the point his mindfulness was so nurtured he finally saw the world as how it is. So if anything I think he would consider Zen Buddhism to be closer to his way of doing things (not having an official holy text that no one can dispute, taking it easy and enjoying life as it is). But actually in the lore there was one time when a normie asked him that since there were so many schools of philosophies and religions out there in India at that time, he was confused as which one should he lived his life according to. The story is here, took me quite a while to find it in English: http://www.enabling.org/ia/vipassana/Archive/Suttas/K/kalamaSutta.html
If he were to see the state of the world today, he would advise us the same thing instead of affirm some kind of Buddhism with full conviction like every leader of their school of thought would do, I guess.

>>12528319

He DID made tantrums over people not understanding his teaching though. Like huge tantrums. As in Jesus smacking happy merchants faces in the temple.

>>12528331
I don't remember this one, but as I said I'm not a Buddhist so there are many sutras and folklores I'm missing out. Would be great if you cite me a link, or just a name for me to find it is fine.

>>12527715
It seems that my hips have attained enlightenment

>>12528354
Are they moving on their own now?

>>12524240
I blame John Lennon. What a faggot.
Also his Imagine song sounds really bland, even worse it just essentially says that "the world would be PERFECT if everyone was JUST LIKE ME". Never understand why so many people like that song.
What a hipster faggot.

>>12528302
>>12528305
>>12528319
So, some retard began spouting inane shit about physical phenomena he could never biologically comprehend, which allured a following of the slightly more impaired. The incompetence and political interests amongst the sub-retards distorted the ramblings to an unrecognizable state. Eventually, the tatters and ideational fragments were strewn together into an obnoxious, arbitrary jumble of ancient platitudes and assorted medieval statecraft fuckery.

The legacy endures as illiterate children try to associate themselves with corresponding modern imagery in an attempt to cultivate a social media brand. Their lofty endeavor is undertaken to assert their dominance over other illiterate kids, perpetually mutating the original, and I'm being incredibly generous here, thoughts.

How is it that people come to respect or uncritically acknowledge the authenticity of religious texts? Disregarding the consistently ridiculous content, are people unaware of how exploitable oral traditions/ancient archival practices were?

Youmu has such a cute butt.

>>12528447
Yeah basically. Religion is about Youmu's cute butt all along.
Post more butts.

>>12528447
Just like every ancient tests actually, because there are no alternatives, men can't go back in time.

>>12528393
0/10, try again.

>>12528497
He was a gigantic faggot who got a japanese waifu, but still a faggot.
And you can't really defend his shit song. He really had cool stuffs back in the day, but once his japanese waifu turned him into a hipster, it was all over.

>>12528503
>Yoko
>waifu
No

>>12528507
His, not mine.
I think Yoko is shit.

>>12528507
who quot?

>>12528462
>>12528447
And thus the Lord spoke, ``Thou shalt post more butts"
Reimu's butt is too religious a butt for me.

only cool people convert to hinduism

>>12528319
>not having an official holy text that no one can dispute, taking it easy and enjoying life as it is
Holy shit /jp/ is nirvana all along

>>12528393
This. I'm not a Beatles fun but they had some good songs
But that imagine is a piece of shit. It's not even a song, just some hippie retard whining.

I don't know. It surprises me because American pop culture and hipster culture are both very consumerist driven lifestyles. Material wealth, extravagant hair, and the ilk kind of go against the ideas of Buddhism.

I don't know... I met a Christian Buddhist monk once. He spent a lot of time in temples on really high mountains. Apparently he could never truly achieve the pinnacle of Buddhism... since he believed in a God... but it didn't seem to bother him. Maybe that's why, Buddhism has a lot of wiggle room.

>>12528590

What if my holy text is mein Kampf ?

>>12529896
I could dispute that though............

>>12529896
Then you need to leave. /jp/ is about taking it easy and mein kampf runs completely counter to that.

>>12529930

/jp/ doesn't stand for Jewish People you scoundrel !

>>12520728
Only Americans think Christianity is for idiots and old people, though.
Again, only in America has there been retards thinking a RELIGIOUS book should be taught in place of science.

>>12520255
Because they want a form of "spirituality" without God, which is ridiculous. Buddhism is just oriental nihilistic satanism. Buddha is burning in the like of fire right now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSM8I-05Bm4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJ_HrFXSgVg

>>12524240
And in the end it's economical interests behind all of those.

>>12535234
Correction only liberals Americans think that.

>>12535234
So you think atheism = science?
Thats like saying atheism = art or atheism = math.

In Myanmar Buddhist monks have slaughtered other religious minorities in the streets. There is nothing inherently peaceful about Buddhism. Westerners need to stop pretending it's the religion of peace.

>>12535526
No, he's saying only Americans think that.

>>12535536
Well....they aren't known for being the brightest

>>12535234
Same thing in Western Europe, if less extreme (I haven't seen any serious push for teaching creationism INSTEAD OF accepted science, only alongside). I think for a big part it's the Church's fault, they're so rooted in tradition it really discourages young people. The only reason I still go to church with all of its outdatedness is because there's no consistent modernized alternative.

>>12535234
>America is the only country in the ENTIRE WORLD who teaches/attempts to teach religion as fact in schools

Is this guy really this stupid?

Because alice margatroid is my favorite touhou!

>>12535798
>Same thing in Western Europe
I can only speak for france, but we made it clear that religion and government (this includes, but isn't limited to, politics; virtually all schools are, to put it simply, gubment owned) are two distinct things.
There are a few private schools that might teach religious bullshit, but they're the exception, not the rule.

So it'd be really great if you stoped speaking out of your ass.

Maybe you meant eastern europe, like with poland building giant jesus shit. Eastern europe is full of religious nuts, but that's not really europe. At least not the europe that matters.

>>12523938
Actually, Calles pretty much forbade any kind of religious service, when people protested, he had them hanged alongside the railroads as an example. The people revolted afterwards.

>>12537069
I was referring to
>Only Americans think Christianity is for idiots and old people, though.
I know that at least in the Netherlands popular perception is like this (not helped by the fact that churches are filled with 80% old people, see 'stuck in traditions'); I can't imagine it being very different in France.

>>12537069
>Maybe you meant eastern europe, like with poland building giant jesus shit.
last i checked, we still have science in school, and religion is optional.

>In Poland, religious education is optional in state schools. Parents decide whether children should attend religion classes or ethics classes[8][9] or none of them.[10]

i used to draw stuff in my notebooks during all religion classes because it was always just a priest talking about jesus's crazy exploits.

he never tried to contradict or discredit science.

It's a sad indictment of our culture that people feel a need to profess and publicly identify with a particular religion. Spirituality is very much an intrapersonal domain. Religion is extrapersonal. Any time a group of people dogmatize a sacred text, they move away from its true meaning, going from something of the divine and making it into something of men. I can understand looking to the East for spiritual direction. The Eastern esoteric traditions are rich and have a lot of relevance in our consumerist culture. However, the same goes for Western esoteric traditions (qaballah, hermeticism, sufism, et cetera). I wouldn't go as far to judge or cast down those who superficially take on Eastern religions. They can as they please. I only hope that even by proclaiming on the surface to be a Buddhist without thinking of the meaning of their words, an individual might find (through the law of proximity) inspiration that helps them connect to a deeper purpose.

All truth lies within. Humans are too scared to connect to their true selves, so they want other people to tell them what to believe. Connecting with the messenger instead of the message is the essence of organized religion.

>>12544154
Theirs that word again "organized religion" wouldn't any following of beliefs be organized be it atheist or religious? Look to >>12523720 for an atheist flavour

>>12544328
He means following a church, not practicing religion.

>>12530011
Mein Kampf propagates puritan ideals, the antithesis of /jp/'s ideals.

Can religion and science coexist? Is devotion to science a pseudo-religious pursuit? Is philosophy separate from science and religion or is it tied to them?
I love you sometimes, /jp/

>>12544468
Depends from the religion. For example evangelical Christians and fundamentalist muslims have a hard time coexisting with some scientific facts, but most of mainstream religion has no problem with science I reckon.

>>12544492
It is i think. God is just a stylized answer to anything science still haven't discover or prove.

But if i say God creates Math and Science and program it to go around, i'll trigger atheists hipster all around the globe and that is bad.

>>12544468
Yes. No. Is a calculator grounds for philosophical debate? Science is a tool to help us measure nature, not a set of beliefs. Its applications, however, are grounds for both theological and philosophical debate though.

But as >>12544492 has said, it depends on the religion.

>>12544459
Which is why /jp/ doesn't seek purity in lolis

>>12544468

religion is fundamentally unscientific

>>12544468
>>12544731
They don't even tread the same ground.

Not to mention religion and science have quite co-existed for quite a long time, plenty of revolutionary scientists were christian.

>>12544731
Forgot to said "and science requires no faith".

>>12544736

>some faggot that hasn't taken science courses in high school.

It's not about proving, it's about disproving. Yes, there's no faith involved more or less.

>>12544749
Who are you quoting?

>>12544751

ur face you fucking dropout hikko

>>12544752
Suck my cock dude.

>>12544752

>>12544749
>It's not about proving, it's about disproving.
High school science courses indeed. Someone doesn't understand the concept of null hypotheses.

The idea is that you have an idea (the hypothesis) that you want to prove. For example, you have a lamp emitting blue light and you want to prove its light is blue. While it may seem reasonable to prove this by measuring whether the emitted light contains light of the 'blue' wavelength range, it actually isn't; white light will also contain light in the 'blue range', as will colors like purple.

So instead, you reverse the hypothesis, trying to prove that the light contains light of wavelengths indicating it's not blue. You measure the light, and find that it doesn't contain light of any other colors. By excluding all other possibilities, you have proven beyond a doubt that the light must be blue (whereas in a positive hypothesis you could only prove that the light *could* be blue).

To put it simply, you prove things by disproving the opposite, as that's far more reliable than trying to prove your original hypothesis. (See popular science news confusing correlation and causation to get an idea of what science would be like if we'd test for positive hypotheses.) In the end, it's still about proving your hypothesis.

Also, that's just one part of science. Science as a whole is much more theoretical and generally involves a lot of thinking up possibilities that fit the things we currently know and/or suspect.

>>12544830
By the way, to loop the topic back to religion, this is also why science can't prove that God doesn't exist. Although you could "prove" it with some bullshit positive hypothesis experiment, you cannot conclusively exclude the possibility of God existing.

As for >>12544733's comment, even in modern times many scientists are religious.

>>12528393
Imagine was a shitty communist song. The instrumental itself is cool but the lyrics are just shameless.

Your question is very narrow in scope, OP. I seriously hope you don't think the western oversimplification of Buddhism began with hipsters. Even Victorian Era orientalists were touting it; it's not a new thing. Its appeal probably has a lot to do with it being perceived as the opposite of everything the more puritanical strains of Christianity are. Which is not to say this perception is accurate; just that this reaction probably contributes to any kind of western fetishism of Buddhism.

>>12521379
The problem with most attempts to understand Nietzsche is that they read his books as a coherent whole.

The only thing that really follows him through his career is the opinion that by abandoning Christianity's monopoly on ethics, we've "killed God" and left ourselves without a groundwork for any new ethical theory. His answer to this problem lies in an anthropological ethic, "the ubermensch" a person that needs no ethical guidelines because he has an inherent knowledge of the "true good" for himself and others, pretty much Taoism really.

Now what is this "true good"? Apparently we can't know because we've yet to become ubermensch, quite a cop-out that one.

>>12545124
Next time trying to be an Aryanabo, remember to capitalize the noun.
And well duh, not just ``pretty much Taoism'', for the Ubermensch is an elitist Taoist with severe superiority complex.

>>12544736
>"and science requires no faith".

Until you try to explain the results it brings to someone who has no means to verify your claims or replicate the process anyway.

>>12544736
Paradigms, son.

>>12544749
>it's about disproving
Popper go to sleep.

>>12544731
... and ultimately destructive'' - GJS Jay Sussman.

>>12545611
That was referring to Sussman fandom, not religion. Please don't take quotes out of context, anon, and read your SICP.

>>12545124
True good will probably never exist

>>12545494
If there's no means to replicate any experiment or verify the claims then it's pretty pointless telling them about whatever it is anyways. Can you think of any examples where this is actually relevant?

>>12547967
Any result from bullshit like the collider is not replicable in just anywhere, but you still have to swallow what they shove down your throat.

>No one know what they are talking about: The thread.
Seriously, no one is going to spend years trying to understand the shit thats being talked about here.

>>12548061
It's not hard to understand. Everything that's been said has been pretty straight forward.

>>12548061
Who are you fagging?

>>12547977
Except the results for stuff done in particle accelerators are originally developed from theory in the first place, which is verifiable and documented. The experiments are done to empirically support the theoretical model's predictions. You (maybe not you personally) can also replicate the experiments, which they aim to do many times using various methods, all with ludicrously strict requirements in order to say anything with a good degree of certainty. Obviously that can take a long time, but you can't say we "can't" replicate or verify this stuff. We're still incredibly conservative about the Higgs boson, for one.

Saying "bullshit like the collider" sounds a lot like the generic sentiment of "this is too complicated, I can't understand it and can't do it myself, therefore I can only conclude that they're making it up". If they didn't need a massive particle collider to conduct experiments, they wouldn't have built it. If we could build more than the few we have and if it were easy to educate people in particle physics, then super. It isn't as if physicists want to obscure what they're doing and then expect people to believe them just because.

When I said "no means to replicate or verify", and what I assumed the other poster meant, I mean actually no way. Like if we didn't have a particle collider at all and no Standard Model that predicted things.

Those people aside, Zen buddhism is still the good shit. I used to be depressed all the time for many years, but I read up on it and some ideas are actually extremely helpful.

>>12547977
>>12548236
And I forgot to add, part of being scientifically literate is that you shouldn't just accept what they say blindly, so no, you don't have to "swallow what they shove down your throat". But if you want to reject what top researchers in the field say, then you'd better learn about what they're doing and get an informed opinion on the matter, otherwise you're just being intellectually dishonest and denialist.

>>12548061
I actually taking a Bachelor in Religious Psychology. Still on my 2nd term but hey, I could probably answer most questions about Buddhism; but I ain't going to start from nothing, that would be an entire paper.

>>12548243
>But if you want to reject what top researchers in the field say, then you'd better learn about what they're doing and get an informed opinion on the matter

>But if you want to reject what Buddhists say, then you'd better learn about what they're doing and get an informed opinion on the matter

>>12544459
Since when does /jp/ have ideals? I thought we just posted touhou pictures and had onahole threads.

>>12548361
Living the eazy life is the /jp/ ideal

>>12548243
>>12548236
Basically, "these guys know what they are talking about, how dare you question them". This attitude is one of the most harmful things to science; due to the unwillingness to question scientific authority, a lot of discoveries are rejected (or dismissed before they can even be proven). See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias#In_science .

While the experiments in the LHC and similar unique locations can be verified theoretically...experiments are meant to prove the theory to be correct in practice. I'm not saying you should distrust those results, but it's definitely worth taking into account that an error in observations could cause incorrect conclusions that can't be disproven.

>>12548256
>>But if you want to reject what Buddhists say, then you'd better learn about what they're doing and get an informed opinion on the matter
You should, if you're interested in what Buddhism claims in particular. I'm not saying not to reject what physicists say because they're somehow immune from skepticism; that invalidates the whole point. Rather, that if you reject what physicists say about physics, it should be more or less because you don't think there's sufficient evidence for what they say. You should also try to understand what they're saying, so you aren't just misrepresenting them and rejecting them based on a strawman. In that respect, if you're offered evidence you should be willing to accept it, rather than avoiding it. Maybe I should have clarified that rather than rejecting what researchers "say", we should be concerned with what they "show".

Personally, I trust the words of most scientists to be consistent in what they say about their results and what the results actually show; just because what they say is usually consistent with what the results show. You don't have to, but if you want to find out if what they say is valid, then you should become informed on the matter and then find out. Pseudoscience is regularly criticized precisely because of this. Just the same, I would generally trust someone who's lived as a Buddhist monk to be knowledgeable about Buddhism, but I would still reject their claims if there isn't good evidence for them.

In any case, you're drawing a false equivalence between experts who use an established method of learning new things about the world, to learn new things about the world, and experts who simply know a lot about their area of expertise (not to demean that expertise). Maybe you're just screwing with me, though.

>>12520360
On of the most important "amputations" in the new age version is the removal of bad rebirths, many of the new age wash outs doesnt allow people to get reincarnated as a worm or similar. Also, no mention of hells and Naraka's, etc... So basically all the negative elements are removed.
So, in your next life you get reincarnated as a bank manager or a movie star or some bullshit.

>>12520372
It is rather close to a in many peoples opinions philosophy and therefore many people see it as such.
However, the transempirical elements define it as religion.

>>12548367
No no, I didn't mean that at all. Maybe the above post clears things up.

>>12548154
I was talking about some subjects, you would have read and study a lot to be able understand them. Its like trying to discuss rocket science, what fucking joke.

>>12548236
>When I said "no means to replicate or verify", and what I assumed the other poster meant, I mean actually no way
That would no longer be science. It must be replicable no matter what, at least asumming someone else has the resources to replicate it. So I just asummed "no way to replicate" would be as in not having the resource to do so, since the other meaning doesn't have anything to do with science.
(Yes that means psychology for the most part is not scientific)
>>12548243
No, what I actually meant was that, predictable results consistent with known theory are nice and all, except when they are not replicable for just about anyone who wants to verify them. Isn't a big point of science being, everything is to be put under skepticism? When some Big Academic Institute with LHC published new results conveniently consistent with known theory, what should a random guy who is actually informed about the situation but can never go anywhere near a LHC face those results? Cast unfounfed doubts or trust the Big Name?
Yeah right, "trying to build my own collider" would be the way to go. Nice one /jp/. No, anyone would rather trust the Big Name here for practicallity, and that's basically accept whatever they said, because "but the results are consistent with theories" should not be and is not a good reason.

>>12548365
Take it easy Anon