/jp/ - Otaku Culture

The pleasure of being cummed inside.

no. by the time you actually learn Japanese, probably you would have lost your interest in anime/other shit.

Start here, read it all the way down, even if it says Advanced it still won't be enough for you to understand all everyday sentences correctly
http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/grammar

Keep going with this, reading all the way down to Advanced-I is sufficient
http://www.imabi.net/

Various lookup guides for grammar and such, make sure to read them through
http://www.jgram.org/ (in case you can't keep up with IMABI's just study the grammar points here)
http://jiten.clanteam.com/ (full transcript of the Dictionary of Japanese Grammar volumes)
http://www.mediafire.com/download/dckt6ix32l93f35/fora.pdf (you'd better print this cheatsheet somewhere)
http://www.tanos.co.uk/jlpt/skills/grammar/ (the site also contains audio files and JLPT test sheets as well, the grammar usage section is particularly useful)

The rest:
http://amaterasu.tindabox.net/guide/
http://thejapanesepage.com/grammar.htm

Nice site to learn vocabulary, online flashcards so you can review them everywhere without installing useless programs
http://www.manythings.org/japanese/
Make sure to study the daily kanji list at least up until level 5
http://www.manythings.org/japanese/daily/

I'm not suggesting any specific Anki deck, but kanji consist of a phonetic and semantic part which helps a lot in guessing the on-yomi (pseudo-Chinese reading) so try it and learn the patterns, it'll make learning kanji easier
https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/2079428463

KanjiDamage is crap for learning kanji, despite what /a/ says, but since you can use many kanji to represent the same native Japanese word, read this. It'll save you up time learning kun-yomi and clear a lot of things up.
http://kanjidamage.com/appendix/dupes

Online dictionaries just in case:
http://jisho.org/
http://tangorin.com/

Other web utilities, pretty limited usage but help sometimes:
http://www.hiragana.jp/en/ (injects furigana over kanji)
http://www.rikai.com/perl/Home.pl (kanji reading on mouseover)

>>12469480
I'm trying to forget it. Half a bottle of rum every night and I still can't get it out of head.

>>12469491
It's your fault if you only set long-term goals and have no mid-term gratifications to keep you motivated.

>>12469491
Anyone else learn Japanese for reasons other than anime/idols/other shit? Serious question because in my Japan language class in Yokohama, 90% of the class all said anime/idols/j-drama were major influences for them enrolling. Not even fucking kidding, they all looked at me funny when I said I knew absolutely nothing about anime except for DBZ and even funnier when I had no idea who AKB48 was.

>>12469530
No, that's weird. Don't tell me it's because you want to live there or something.

>>12469530
I do it out of interest in culture and language, not specifically the Japanese culture and language. It's different enough from English that it can give you a profoundly new perspective on many things.

>>12469563
I started learning because I'm an apprentice chef in specialization of Asian cuisine. To be honest, I will probably go back one day and stay there for a couple of years.
>>12469570
>I do it out of interest in culture and language, not specifically the Japanese culture and language.
Well that's what most of the class said and then when someone asked if anime is a part of that culture they were so interested in, they all started giggling in agreement. I agree with your second point though, after learning a language, your whole library just increases sevenfold.

>>12469498
Ixrec a shit pls remove from premise etc

People should really edit that out

>>12469598
How hard is being a chef?
I've heard long hours, but it doesn't sound too hard if you know elementary math.

These threads make me mad

Where's a good place to start learning Japanese?

>>12469713
Japan.

>>12469717
But I'm a broke ass gaijin.

>>12469498
was actually about to post this taking the lessons on memrise currently

>>12469667
Its taxing overall but different specializations have different hardships. My Uncle specializes in desserts so he spends most of his time in preparation since the oven does most of the work, my Dad specialized in fine french cuisine so he had to train his hand-eye coordination skills to almost retarded lengths. Since I'm in Asian cuisine, speed and precision is a must have skill.
>I've heard long hours
Well I'll put it to you this way; I did one 10-hour shift last week. That was the shortest shift I've done in a year.
>but it doesn't sound too hard if you know elementary math.
Yeah. Like I said, different specializations need different aspects of attention. With fine cuisine, Math plays a vital part.

>>12469713
Iraq

Learning Japanese is huge goal of mine
But living there...no

The standards there are shit
Ex. deodorant is basically non existent there, even the spray ones available are too expensive, no one uses it.
I even asked a local once about it and they said "Well..no one wears it anyway, everyone smells so its ok"
its a dirty country

>>12469789
Are you Korean or Chinese?

>>12469530
I initially started learning Japanese because of my interest otaku culture back in highschool, but I'm continuing it in uni for career purposes.
Being a native English speaker fluent in an East-Asian language with a science/tech/business/engineering degree sets you up to possibly get a very stable and well-paying job.

>>12469498
>Start here, read it all the way down, even if it says Advanced it still won't be enough for you to understand all everyday sentences correctly
>http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/grammar
>Keep going with this, reading all the way down to Advanced-I is sufficient
>http://www.imabi.net/
Alternatively, An Integrated Approach to Intermediate Japanese seems good enough to follow up on Tae Kim. I prefer when stuff goes straight to exemples. Imabi is way too verbose for my ADHD.

>>12469789
Sweat due to stress is the one that really smells. Take it easy.

>>12469789
I really want to greentext this, but I will resist in the interests of board tradition:

Not wanting a qt Japanese imouto with smelly sweaty salty lewd armpits
Not wanting to lick and suck them whenever she demands it
Not wanting to indulge in frantic wakizuri

>>>/lang/

rip

>>12469789
That's because they take baths everyday. Sometimes even twice a day.

>>12470677
Girls with hairy armpits are the best.

>>12470532
no those kind of people are worse. Also living in China or Korea would be a nightmare

>>12471098
So does America (then again I live up in MN)
Dont blindly justify Japan, Im sure you know a ton of other countries take baths/showers twice a day and yet they STILL wear deodorant.

Its a fucking stupid and disgusting concept to plan on sweating during the day and then shower when you finally get home.

At least where I live, we wash...and prevent sweating....and then wash again anyways

>>12470674
even so, its wet and looks disgusting/awkward
also
>Japan doesn't have stress
this is bait right?

>>12469480
The program human japanese is a good place to start at least

>>12471526
>this is bait right?
Stop projecting dude, I never said that. I am talking about you. Look, you are so defensive, I bet you would be smelling right now hadn't you applied some deodorant.

I use one daily too, but we should keep in mind how fucking agressive it is for our bodies depending on the product. I bet our generation will get all kind of funny cancers at some point. Luckily that shit will be easily fixable at some point.

>>12469789
>>12471098
>>12471526

but thats wrong, you retards.

what the local said is in fact correct, japanese people simply don't have much body odor, so they don't need deoderant.

>>12471794
>japanese people simply don't have much body odor
That's really not true, trust me. Japanese people haven't worn deodorant for so long that they've gotten used to their body odor - that's it. They smell, they really do, but they don't notice it.

>>12473184
the internet told me that japanese people just smell like fish

>>12473201
I'm sure Japanese fishermen do.

I need anki card with radicals. Pls elaborate.

It's ok as long as you have determination, just go to a language course. That's what i did, and it took me to the n4 level in a year and a half

Japanese is a very difficult language to learn. Don't plan on just picking it up like Spanish or something, it's just not that easy.
Be aware:
Language classes move too slowly. You'll be in your third year before you can read ANYTHING but the textbook. Dead serious.
Pronounce Japanese as you would Spanish. There are differences, but if you ask a Jap, you'll find out Hispanics have the best pronunciation of all western foreigners.

Step 1: Learn the Katakana and Hiragana. Learn them well. After you are done, ask yourself, how was it? Those two together make up about 1/2 of one percent of the difficulty of Japanese. Think you can manage the other 99.5 percent? Good, keep going.
Step 2: Learn the Kanji. Learn them all. Work on grammar too, but focus on Kanji, it is the key to understanding the language. I cannot stress this enough. Kanji is hell, but it is THE shortcut. You need 3000ish. I do 20 per day. Starting out, you could probably manage 5 per day, and scale up workload as Hiragana get easier to read. Learn them in the order the Japanese do, not the bullshit order the westerners follow. Familiarize yourself with the 200ish radicals, and the Kanji get easier to comprehend. Don't worry about writing them so much, reading is far more important. Use Kanjidamage.
Step 3: Once you know about 200 Kanji, start supplementing your studies with the most common Hiragana and Katakana words.
Step 4. Once you know 3000 Kanji, you'll know what to do next. Trust me.
Unless you're a medical or law student, Japanese will represent the hardest fucking thing you've ever attempted. It takes years. If you think you can take it, fucking go for it.

Finally, be sure you really understand the culture before you decide how much effort you're gonna put into it. I myself love Japan. I love it more than anything in the world. I feel more comfortable there, where I speak like a child, than here, where I speak natively. Still, many things about it piss me the fuck off. Many of my friends at my level—MANY—regret taking Japanese. They found out they hated the country after having devoted an entire college degree to it. Good luck.

>>12473294
Oh, almost forgot. Use the free flashcard program Anki for all your memorizing. Most efficient review tool out there. It has magical algorithms that make it far better than ordinary flashcards.

anyone's who's studying for over a month already knows everything that's been posted here

>>12469498
>http://www.mediafire.com/download/dckt6ix32l93f35/fora.pdf
Does anyone know how to split those sheets into multiple pdf files?

I've got a question like OP's.

I took Japanese for a few years in highschool and college, but never got terribly great at it. I can understand about a third of what's going on if I watch anime without subtitles, I know hiragana and katakana well, but I only know 20 kanji at best, and I can probably only write 5. (Granted I'm not interested in writing.) But it's been a while since those classes so I've gotten a little rustier.

I really just want to get good enough to read VNs/LNs untranslated. How close am I? I'm guessing not very. What would be the next step, etc.?

>>12473408
Tae Kim's guide should be your first step.

>>12473408
chances are you should know a fair number of basic terms.

Numbers, days, colors, 2hu, animals, body parts, directions, family members, food, weather--concretes these make up a few hundred single character terms, and are components for not a few compound terms, as well as idioms

i dunno they just sort of pile up don't they? up to a point

/v/ here.

As you may be aware we are currently embroiled in a holy war (known as gamergate) against a vile force of darkness. We have noticed that people in Japan are starting to discuss #gamergate, but we have no idea what they are saying, and machine translations are useless. Could anybody here give me some idea of what kind of sentiments are being expressed in pic related?

>>12474249
The sentiments are basically "something is going down between gamers and feminists in America, but we don't have any idea what."

>>12474279
Thank you.

>>12474249
>>12474279
http://www.inside-games.jp/article/2014/09/11/80430.html

Is this basically saying the same thing?

>>12474249
Just what the hell is going on over there? I heard rumors about mods activating full SJW mode but nothing specific.

>>12474349
It all revolves around Kotaku, Gamastura and other websites trying to hide a sex scandal involving an indie developer and a journalist by censoring comments, getting in touch with mods from Reddit and generally failing to do their jobs.

GamerGate is the counterinitiative to try to break this story and many others that spawned from it out of contention.

>>12474349
A couple of mods/janitors had to get bitchslapped, but that hasn't been a problem for a while (except for one janitor). As long as its contained to one thread it's OK.

In the beginning though, it could only be discussed on /pol/.

>>12474349

We basically have a permanent GamerGate thread that's been active for 4 weeks and it shows no signs of slowing. The mods are allowing us to stay as long as we don't raid, doxx or whatever. It's the most fun I've had in years.

We run through like 40-50 threads a day.

>>12474340
I don't know/care much about the situation myself so I can's say how accurate it is, but it's basically the same thing I've seen from news sites over here. This Zoe Quinn person got falsely accused of sleeping with journalists for good reviews, people got mad and are now trying to reform the game industry to one that's more friendly to women.

>>12474249
Captain_Y
I just gave it a hasty read and don't understand it well, but it seems that among gamer colleagues therere some who think that game media is supported by a conspiracy where females get all the preferential treatment.

ShogoNu
So it's within this context, that the announcement of Project Morpheus with its "peep in a girl's room" content ended up sparking criticism about morality

carmen_i
Even in Japan there's lot on fujoshi bashing inside the otaku sphere, but overseas where girl-oriented content is almost none it's apparently no joke

BlackHandMaiden
There are many gamers in America who are like Noayama (?) but maybe there are even more outside of that

yomperor
The activism of Gamergate and Notyourshield is interesting, but the background behind the debate is hard to understand.... let's investigate a little...

>>12474387
Interedasting, thank you for your efforts, anon.

>>12474340
It's just a list of all the misdemeanors that gamers fans have committed so far this year. They mention Zoey Quinn, but they say that the rumors of her sleeping with a journalist to get positive reviews are just groundless rumors and called out people for leaking her private informations in revenge.
They say Anita Sarkeesan posts video criticizing the depiction of females in videogames, but only mention she received death threats for that.
Also stuff about a terror thread against some CEO or something.
My guess is that now Japanese think that the moral problem in the videogame community is that rabid male users are harrassing females for having different opinions.

>>12469480
Taking classes and doing exchange programs help if you're in college or willing to enroll. I'm in the 4th week of a Japanese class at my local community college and most of my class has at least 80-90% of the hiragana memorized. It's fairly easy and not incredibly time consuming.

>>12474474
Why haven't they memorized it all already? Do they have mental problems?

>>12474454
The Japanese model where fujo play fujo games and kimota play kimota games and then everybody just fucking deals with it seems so much better.

Does Japan even have games journalism like in the US? Seems like a pretty shit field overall.

>>12474482
i still don't have シツ down and i never will

>>12474454
Also, the writer seems to have misinterpreted the GamerGate movement and think its supporters are striving to increase e-sport recognition, make videogames be accepted as art, protect the diversification of opinions (read: feminists like Anita) and uphold morality inside the community (read: no more bad 4channers harrassing female colleagues).
So yeah, there's a lot of wrong informations in this article, but the same things happen here in the west every time we try to discuss the society issues of Japan so it's really no surprise it goes both ways.

>>12474483
>Does Japan even have games journalism like in the US?
Yes, but the difference is that their games journalists don't even really pretend to be unbiased. Famitsu reviews are for sale and everyone knows it.

>>12474498
Actually gamergate is partly about what you said, making videogames be accepted as art, and protecting the diversification of opinions. However to accomplish that, we find ourselves having to push back against rabid SJWs because they want to stifle all discussion and threaten and bully people who don't share their opinions.

See pic related.

>>12474495
Think of it as a wave: ノ = NO wave. ソ = SOft wave. ツ = TSUnami
I assure that you won't forget it. Telling apart 待つ and 持つ at a glance is harder.

Can we please not turn this thread into a fucking internet controversy thread?

>>12469789
No it's not. Much cleaner than Korea and china. I have been to all three and Japan is by far the cleanest.

There are almost no trashcans anywhere though. It's very hard to find a place to throw stuff away aside from konbinis, and certain vending machines.

>>12474519

Let's try not to derail their thread, shall we?

If you're curious to learn more about #GamerGate, it's trending on twitter and has been for the past month (almost). You can also come visit /v/. Back to your regularly scheduled posting.

>>12474454
Ouch. Part of the rage in Gamergate is the trying to defend JP games, ironically enough.

People were mad about the feminist bias in review scores for Dragon's Crown, for example.

>>12474482
We can't all be as smart as you, anon.

We only have the class twice a week and not too many of the students study.

So RTK is a waste of time?

>>12474483
All media journalism in Japan is basically companies writing PR and submitting it to newspapers and onews sites.

>>12474533
Not at all, though I wouldn't recommend starting with it. Learn some vocab first so you have some context for your kanji and can start reading native materials.

>>12474535
>>12474499
Somehow I feel like I prefer that to the American model.

>>12474525
Yeah, I'll shut up now.

>>12474531
I don't like surprises.

>>12474531
Memorizing 46 characters is not a big feat at all, and it should take at most 3 hours.

>>12474547
Please, it shouldn't take more than an hour.

>>12474547
That's asking a bit much if students are also learning how to use them in sentences, learning to write them accurately, learning how to pronounce them when they're used together, etc. Learning a new language isn't as easy as "I guess I'll just study for 3 hours" "Oh hey, I got it!"

>>12474552
He's not joking, mate. Three hours might be exaggerating the time it takes for someone with a functioning brain to memorize the kana, but not by much.

>>12474556
>That's asking a bit much if students are also learning how to use them in sentences
I don't they should be doing that if they don't know all the kana yet.
>learning to write them accurately
They all follow an obvious pattern except for 'fu' and maybe 'se'.
>learning how to pronounce them when they're used together
You should only have trouble with vowel devoicing.

At my peak I was doing 50 new kanji a day, and I know some people do more than that. If it takes you longer than 2-3 days to have the kana down, which are way easier by comparison, you're doing something massively wrong.

And that something is taking classes. All classes do is slow you down. I remember spending weeks on kana for no reason. But hey, at least it was an easy A!

>>12474539
That's something that may struck as odd but I can see what you are meaning. I learned kanjis via a similar method (Slime Forest Adventure). Yet I didn't put up much time doing my reps on the game so when I got back to it with some vocab on my luggage, I noticed there was a strongest connection to the meanings (of course, since it's a "one meaning a kanji" thing, you don't achieve a strongest symbiosis than that).

>>12474593
Agreed. Katagana should be learned within the space of one day. Took me weeks because I was too stupid to realize "Japanese Class" is bullshit.
It's as if they really genuinely think we are too stupid to learn Japanese at a respectable rate.
Sure, first Hirakana, you have to take a couple hours because you have absolutely nothing to relate them to. You have to start slowly. But then, the classes never picked up, and it always felt spotty and incomplete.
And then there's the things they don't teach you:
"Hey sensei, what does 俺（おれ）mean?"
"That's a bad word. Don't use it."
"But it's near the top of the frequency lists. Yotsuba's dad uses it, and he looks like a nice guy."
"Shut up! And what are you doing reading Japanese manga! That won't help you. Don't learn that word. Learn 乳母車 instead!"
I always felt like Kanji was taught too slowly, like 10 per week if I was lucky. And they never actually gave me a class on what they actually were. That would have been a much better lecture than any of the ones I've had on keigo so far. I kept thinking I'd just learn them magically one day, but you know what, that never happened.
Instead, one day I sat down with a nice and porny VN that I had just brought home from Japan. Load it up and try to make sense of it. No clue what the moeblob sucking me off is saying. I'M FUCKING TIRED OF NOT UNDERSTANDING THIS SHIT!!!
So I started spamming Kanji until I knew them all. That was a month ago. I've got at least 300 down, and 300 more in review. Consequently, I'm now learning Japanese at a faster rate than I was even in Japan.
Mormon missionaries learn Japanese faster than any other English speaking foreigners. Takes them about a year to go from clueless to fluent because they actually take learning it seriously. Took me three years of college (it's my fugging major!) before I realized I had to actually do this on my own because school wasn't going to teach me anything.

>>12474582
It took me 4 hours. Might have taken less if I chose a different study system.
I just wrote various idol groups' members' names in kana that I read in romaji until I didn't have to lookup the kana anymore.

>>12469530
I'm a programmer and I wanted to know whether I could learn a human language like a software language. The fact that I like anime and video games was crucial, but not the main reason.

>>12469530
So what's your non-typical reason?

At this point, my main reasons are having interest in the language itself, the bits of Japanese culture I get exposed to through it and it's fun to learn/see progress. (It's nowhere near as difficult as people said it would be.)

>>12469570
>It's different enough from English that it can give you a profoundly new perspective on many things.
Also this.

>>12469688
I just wish they were a general instead of having to browse the catalog for language/study-related threads.

>>12469480
I don't speak Japanese (am in the process of learning the language), but I think whether or not learning it is an option is up to you and what you intend to use the language for.

I believe the Genki Elementary Japanese books are good to start with (the textbook, workbook and answer book).

>I have already started learning Hiragana previously when bored and have about half of them down
Sounds like you lack dedication, which is what is necessary for learning the language.
>what do I do to learn fast?
There are no shorcuts (unless you count learning on your own versus being in a class).
You can expect to see progress within a month if you work at it. Other than that, get "learning fast" out of your head.

>>12474533
RTK is for those that [think they] need it.

>>12474547
Three hours total; not in one sitting, right?

If I can easily read kana and know a good amount of kanji from taking japanese a few years ago, but completely forgot all my vocabulary, what's the best course of action to refresh my memory? I was pretty good when I studied but completely forgot everything but the kana/kanji and really basic stuff.

>>12476861
That's the same boat I was in when I started. I just read through Tae Kim to refresh my memory, downloaded a vocab deck, and got to work.

>>12469653
what is wrong with ixrec's guide?

>>12476877
Ixrec is really bad at Japanese and his guide, much like his translations, is full of errors.

>>12476887
hope I'm not asking too much if I request you point a few errors out? I've been using it and now I'm worried that what I've been learning is wrong.

>>12476913
Well, it's late and I'm about to go to bed, but just for fun I opened the conjugation page and looked at a couple of random example sentences, one of which is 彼に言って欲しい for which he gives the translation "I want him to say it." So, yeah.

I am about to finish Tae Kim in a few days (I take my time, carefully puting exemples in Anki and making sure it sinks in). I think I'll read Hanahira following that, but I am conscious it's not enough to have the grammar polished.

I thought about looking up http://jiten.clanteam.com/ each time I am wondering about a grammar point, and adding exemples in Anki each time I do so. Do you think it's a good idea? Or should I go for a more advanced textbook in parallel?

>>12476944
>彼に言って欲しい for which he gives the translation "I want him to say it."
B-but... that's correct, anon...

>>12477141
Can you share your deck?

>>12477192
I'll have it completed by Tuesday.

It looks like pic related (you have to hover the black div to see the translation). I just read the sentences and if I understand what it means and read correctly the kanjis, I consider it correct.

Be warned though: I put a complete exemple at a time, so if it's a dialogue I put it in completely in the front. Like this one:

A：あのさ・・・
B：うん。
A：この間さ・・・
B：うん。
A：ディズニーランドに行ったんだけどさ、なんかさ、すごい込んでて・・・
B：うん
A：何もできなくてさ・・・

I didn't put the 2 huuuuuge exemples at the end of "Essential Grammar" and the Counters chapter though. I'll just go back to them from time to time.

Also, I copy-paste the translations but I manually input the sentences, so there may be a few typos (I corrected one this morning for exemple).

Finally, I didn't add tags by lesson, because I just did the input while reading the book, so it followed my progression naturally. The order may be messed up for you as a result.

If you are still interested, keep bumping this thread until I have finished it, when it's too low on the catalog. But honestly, I think you should make your own. I have a 92% retention rate on it because I made them myself. It may be a pain in the ass for you.

>>12477289
Thanks. I'm kinda newbie with Anki and have no idea how to make my own decks.

Namasensei on Youtube has thought me a lot
He is alson pretty fun to listen to, it works too!

/v/ here. There is something that I would like to ask to be translated from English to Japanese but do not want to start a new thread. Is this a good thread to ask?

>>12477465
Just make a new thread. It'll get deleted in ten minutes, but someone will give you your translation quickly so long as you make your OP text "translate it, weebs."

>>12477468
Ok. Thanks.

>>12477339
It's pretty straightforward, should take 10mn to fully understand how to make and customize one.

I am willing to help you with my deck but if you are a newbie I think it's a bad idea.

>>12477514
Please don't mind. I think it suits me. Thank you!

>>12477157
Learned from Ixrec's guide, I take it?

>>12477948
Not that guy, but how would you translate it?

>>12478424
He wouldn't, because he's an EOP.

>>12477289
How long did it take you to get through tae kim?


I started his roughly 6 days ago and wrapped up basic grammar/the beginning of essential today.

I was using genki before but I got burnt out pretty fast and stopped for like two months, I think now that I have a better understanding of the basics I'll be going back and forth between the two.

>>12477948
No. It's correct. It could also mean "I want (you) to tell him", but it depends on context. However, "I want him to say (it)" is also an appropriate translation. Do you know how to use verb + ほしい?

>>12482396
ほしい is just a desire, not a command, so it should be closer to "I wish that..."

Also, given the special usage of the particle に when used in conjunction with ほしい, the proper translation should be "I wish him to say..."

>>12482436

Is your gripe with the "want" bit or including "it"? Regardless, I think it could be argued that "I want him to say it" is an appropriate translation.

"Want" functions the same way as "wish" in this case, but in my opinion, "want" is a more natural translation. You don't hear "I wish him to say (it)" too often in daily conversation.

If the sentence ends there (彼に言ってほしい), then the "it" is implied and there would be no need for the "...".

>>12482103
30 days, really taking my time so it sinks in. However even though I said I'd finish my deck by Tuesday I feel the urge to read right now, so I'll read Hanahira since it seems to be an easy to read eroge.

The "advanced" section can be a bitch and it must contributing to that desire. See this little asshole of an exemple:

>預金者が大手銀行を相手取って訴訟を起こすケースも出ており、金融庁は被害者の救済を優先させて、金融機関に犯罪防止対策の強化を足すべきだと判断。（朝日新聞）

In case you wonder, it's just to show you the usage of べき. I still made the card but I suspended it until I have enough familiarity with its vocabulary.

If you are more advanced than I am it may not be a problem.

>have gone through genki and tae kim
>still struggle sometimes with で and に
>still fuck up non-simple non-example sentences
>から、ので、のに、まで, and the like give me trouble
I keep being told that grammar is the easiest part of the language but I really can't grasp it. The only thing harder is handwriting/memorizing how to write all those kanji.

What did you guys read when you started out? I've gone through yotsuba and hanahira having an acceptable amount of trouble but I'm not sure where to go from here. Anything I try and pick up seems a bit too hard.

Can anyone verify how reliable Pimsleur's Japanese is?

>>12473408
You're probably not that far off. Start learning Kanji. Get an anki deck that has both onyomi and kunyomi readings and just start memorizing. I find that reading manga (basic, shonen stuff with furigana) helps me review the kanji I've learned in any given week.

Also, even though you don't care about writing, I would recommend writing the characters and learning stroke order. Even if you don't plan on ever handwriting Japanese in your life, it will speed the learning process by hammering the shapes of each kanji into your memory.

Since you took Japanese classes and can get the gist of anime without subs, I'd recommend watching anime with Japanese subtitles after you've memorized 200 - 300 Kanji.

For grammar, same as everyone always recommends: tae kim, genki and imabi. This should be easier for you because of the Japanese background you have.

>>12484284
>I keep being told that grammar is the easiest part of the language

Those people are fools. I can only assume they read through a few pages of Genki 1 and said to themselves "Hey, Japanese marks everything with particles, so this is going to be a walk in the park!" That or they are trying to make people feel better about the kanji. Speaking of which, I think kanji get easier with time. You begin to get a feel for the different radicals that make up a kanji, like when I look at 謝 it's just 3 parts that I already know, 言身寸, squished together.

>>12484289
If Yotsuba is too hard, you need to grind vocab and grammar more. Go through Tae Kim and Genki I and do daily kanji review with anki, then try Yotsuba again.

>>12484395
Pimsleur Japanese is OK. I'm using it as a supplement for listening comprehension and speaking. It seems to focus more on polite, business-oriented Japanese; not that that's a bad thing. If you're starting from zero, it's probably a good way to pick up some basic phrases and grammatical structure.

>>12484424
Yotsuba wasn't hard it's just that it was the first thing I read and so I understandably had some difficulty. Pretty much all the difficulty came from grammar since I hadn't read anything before, but some chapters like the fishing one gave me some trouble because of the vocab.

>>12484284
I know that feeling; still struggle with に and を.
I still struggle with grammar too. Don't rush it; let it simmer and then properly sink into your brain. Don't be afraid to mess up. Grammar seems to be something that sinks in better as you make mistakes.

I find handwriting and kanji to be easier (or just plain faster).

>>12484407
Furigana doesn't get in your way? It feels like it undermines the work I put in towards learning the kanji and its readings.

>recommend writing the characters and learning stroke order. Even if you don't plan on ever handwriting Japanese in your life, it will speed the learning process by hammering the shapes of each kanji into your memory.
This. Not only will it speed up and smooth the learning process, you'll have a better time figuring out oddly-written text if you're aware of stroke order. You'll be able to tell where the writer/font is being lazy or creative with the strokes.

の still confuses the fuck out of me sometimes. Like when it describes a characteristic or something like that.
I can't remember if this was actually in Eva but something like シンジのバカ or　デパートの中

>>12485985
It helps to think as whatever is front of の acts as a further classification of whatever comes after の

For example: in the term 英語の先生 (english teacher), teacher (先生）is the general term. English （英語）is a further classification of that. So general terms follow の and specifications precede の

At least, this is what I have come to understand. Someone can correct me or go into further explanation if that's not quite right.

no is a magical mystery particle that turns nouns into adjectives and sentences into nouns

>>12486865
Shinji is a further classification of stupid? Department Store is a further classification of inside?

>>12488365
The way he explains it, yes. However, I find the words "further classification" to be unfitting. I find the later used word specifications better. But I'm just at the beginning of learning japanese and so can only judge how fitting it is with your examples and the bit I know.

Hey, sorry for being the fag to ask for free translations but I literally cannot understand a word of what the fuck is going on in this sentence.
>ネズミが二匹と言う話はないかもしれんがジジイがぬかずけに今まで見たことないような陰気なエルボードロップをしたな
Sorry it's a mouthful.

>>12488787
Something pleasure something inside, etc.

shit yeah it is

>>12488365
>Shinji is a further classification of stupid?
He's a further classification of "stupid person" yes
>Department Store is a further classification of inside?
Sure, but it's really just AのB means B with the "property" A where the "property" could mean it is owned by A, or it could mean A describes it

>>12489290
I think I see what you mean. My default sort of phrase that I go to for の is 僕の日本語 and taking what you're saying is like saying the focus is on the japanese but specifically it's MY japanese. I still don't feel all that comfortable making sentences but I think it might help my understanding with reading, thanks.

>>12469530
Well I mainly want to learn japanese because of games and anime. But I also wanted to learn it in case I ever need it. I've always wanted to learn multiple languages and until recently it hit me as extremely important to know more than one. I work at a stadium that is big US and even has international people coming over. I had people speaking to me in spanish, french and japanese. I couldn't find anyone who knew how to speak japanese so I had to use my phone to type out words in google translate.

Are your deck is ready?

>>12489333
>My default sort of phrase that I go to for の is 僕の日本語 and taking what you're saying is like saying the focus is on the japanese but specifically it's MY japanese.
As another guy, this is probably also wrong depending on usage, and is mostly a mental artifact of converting from english concepts to japanese. Sorry if I'm about to complicate things.

If your intention was to say for example "my japanese is poor" then to use 私の日本語は良くないです or something is wrong. Informally speaking that's sort of like saying you have a property of japanese language, which isn't really correct. Instead you have to be conscious of the subject and topic of the phrase. Here "you" are the subject of the phrase since you're referring to something about yourself; "the japanese language" is the topic of the phrase since that's what's being talked about. So you want the phrase to be structured like 私は(subject)日本語が(topic)下手です.

If you split up the phrase into more general parts you might be able to see how it fits better.
私は下手です - when referring to me, not skilled ("I'm not very good")
日本語が下手です- when talking about the japanese language, not skilled ("Not very good at japanese")
See how these both still work grammatically when removing the subject or topic.

Using (私の)日本語は下手です, on the other hand, is like "when referring to the japanese language, not skilled" which doesn't really make sense either, since the language can't really be unskilled at something.

>>12492955
Hey dude, no. Now that I am reading eroge I slowed my grammar to 10 sentences a day. You won't make much use of it though, you may not realize it as your a not familiar with Anki, but anyone would agree that my deck will fuck your brain the way it's unsorted and dry.

I did some research and my deck is basically this: https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/2360548637

Avoid the Cloze Deletion option featured in this one though, the way it has been used here looks quite counter-productive.

>>12493078
Thanks. But I dunno how to study with an addon in place of a deck. An somehow I keep receiving an error when try to load Anki. ''ImportError: No module named japanese''

>>12493174
Sorry, can't help you on that one. There are other decks you can try, just ctrl+f through this https://ankiweb.net/shared/decks/japanese

Again, I think you should create your own one while reading Tae Kim. Or read straight away in parallel if you have balls.

>>12469667
Not that guy, but it's mostly depending on what you're doing.

In general, you'll need good arm strength, basic math skills, and the ability to withstand extreme heat(depending on what you're doing) for long periods of time. Decent motor control helps, if you're getting into the fancier stuff and decorating. Having a good nose helps a ton. You're also going to need to be really good with being under a lot of pressure and stress.


Long as fuck shifts though, 10-12 hour shifts are not uncommon. I think the average temp in the kitchen I worked in before I moved was ~100f, it was cooler outside than in. No a/c. In my experience so far, you're damn lucky if you can get a place with a cooled kitchen.

>>12493290
No big deal. But can you give some hints how to customize my deck in your's fashion? It seems very appropriate for study.

>>12493613
When you are on a card, click "cards" in the lower part of the window. from there you customize what you need like you'd do in CSS.

My most important settings are:

.card {
background-color: #333;
color: #CCC;
}

I wrapped the translation in a <div class="ans"></div> then in style:

.ans{
background-color:#000;
color:transparent;
}
.ans:hover{
color:#CCC;
}

You can play around with font-size too until you get something you like.

So I tried formulating my first japanese text:
初めまして！これはドット絵のグループです。これイラストはドット絵じゃない。。。
補うために十ドット絵！ｗｗｗｗ

Situation is that someone posted an Illustration in an Pixiv group dedicated to pixel art which is not pixel art.

I will probably not post it but I'm curious how fucked up these sentences are and how it would have to be correctly.

>>12493021
Well fuck me.

>>12469480

Today in beginner japanese, sensei said that I was at the top of the class and asked if I had studied it before. I said no. I couldn't reveal just how perverted I truly am. Sensei is too delicate for such truths.

>>12498704
Is your sensei a guy? Are you a guy? I hope you guys fuck eachother.

>>12469480
Guys I need some help to stay motivated!!

I started to learn japanese but I stopped because I couldn't see any reasons to actually learn it
Beside enjoying media like videogames, movies, books etc. why should we learn it? So we can move around if we visit japan? wouldn't it be useful only if you had japanese relatives you could visit regularly and communicate with?

Why are you guys learning japanese?
What are yoru goals?
Help me and discuss

>>12500132
There's so much untranslated shit that's better than the shit that gets translated.

>>12498704
Tell sensei that you are a ロリコンペド野郎 with a 変態チンポ

Any of you stop using anki? I'm so sick of it. But I'm afraid I'd forget vocabulary if I stopped.

Most language learners don't use it so it's probably okay to stop using it. I feel like I'd read more without it.

>>12473291
> no responses on an actual extremely detailed well written post

Never change /jp/

>>12473291
You still haven't finished your shitty "learn all the kanji with english keywords before actually learning the language" method, you don't know japanese and I doubt you ever will. Go back to koohii and circle jerk over not actually learning japanese there.

>>12500132
I just think that it is a beautiful language
Mmmm, life in Tokyo

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0976998122/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Are these books any good for learning Japanese? I tried to find something with audio samples but I couldn't find a positively reviewed one on Amazon, most of them only taught Japanese fit for a tourist, 700 words at most.

>>12500240
This is a very minor part of my studying. As long as you are advanced enough to get diminishing returns from your reading material, you can tone down its usage drastically, methink.

The most frequent words you'll encounter them regularly enough to never forget them. The rarer words may be a problem depending on your exposure. At worst make a deck where you put those pesky rare words. It should be manageable and I doubt you'd use Anki more than 10mn a day this way.

>>12500263
I'm here for pictures of dolls and onaholes

>>12500263
if you want someone to respond to it you should do it yourself

>>12500415
I literally already did

>>12500674
Your post means shit though. You said you are currently learning your kanji but you say at the same time that by experience you know one will know what to do once that part is done. Unless you are already past 3000 kanji you can't know, even if having a feeling thanks to your actual experience may lead you to that conclusion.

Also, I have a problem with those all-in-one-package methods. People who are smart enough end up branching from whatever they were doing to find a compromise that suits better their own peculiarities. There are people who started by reading machine assisted eroge with romaji and Tae Kim as a reference book and are a few years later fully capable to engage a conversation in Japanese and read what is geared toward their interests. There are guys who just read 2ch with rikaisama until it sitcked. There are also guys who got succesful using those dreaded classes and sucking it up the hard, traditional way. To each their own.

> no responses on an actual extremely detailed well written post
Get off your high horse.

>>12473291
>Learn them in the order the Japanese do, not the bullshit order the westerners follow
>Use Kanjidamage
Not only is that contradictory but KD is absolute garbage.

>>12500329
Genki has audio samples

>>12500263
It's a shitty guide though. He hasn't even finished his "learn the kanji before anything else" retard method. Once he does he will realize how useless it is. Everyone should avoid that guide, it is full of beginner ignorance and misinformation.

>>12469498
truth is that the best way to learn Japanese is to go to a Japanese class (which I am) or go to Japan (some countries don't require visa but must show round trip proof

>>12473291
I learned how to read in a 7 day summer class

>>12501991
>which I am
No you just don't want to feel like you've made a bad decision so you assert your ignorant fear-based opinion as fact to convince other people in a "misery loves company" sort of way, and also to convince yourself that it's actually a good idea.

>>12502014
japanese classes are good for people who are incapable of self-studying seriously

same with most classes, really

>>12469530
On a somewhat related note, lemme copy and paste something out of my journal from last week...

The fucking Japanese class on my campus was a total joke. I know hiragana and most katakana and a whole hell of a lot of kanji (since I know Chinese), so I felt like I'd be a little ahead of the curve. What I wasn't expecting is that the teacher would be some goddamn weeaboo who can't even write more than his name in Hiragana and spent 1/3 of the class arguing over which anime we should watch and then 1/2 the class watching it (Baccano), all while putting on a shit-eating grin and sneering as he told me to sit back down when I tried to teach the class some easy words, hiragana characters and the mnemonics I used to help remember them.

You're goddamn right I'm mad. Anime is what got me into japanese at first...when I was a teenager. While I still retain a casual interest I'm more into learning the actual history and culture of Japan, and realize that there's more to it than le animus xDDD

And no, it wasn't a class put on by the university; it's a student-organized class.

>it was cancelled this week due to lack of students

>>12502033
That's sad. My japanese teachers were all actual japanese ladies. Bad English too so after first semester class is taught in japanese.

>>12502018
They are good for people who don't actually want to learn Japanese and instead want to just brag that they're learning it.

>>12502033
>spent 1/3 of the class arguing over which anime we should watch and then 1/2 the class watching it
>it wasn't a class put on by the university
Thank fucking god. For a second there I thought you were saying someone was getting paid for that.

>>12502033
>And no, it wasn't a class put on by the university; it's a student-organized class.

You just went to an anime club.

>>12503708
You'd think so, wouldn't you? Unfortunately this was put on by the actual Japanese Student Association, and there's already a separate anime club (that this fucker was probably rejected from for having such horrible taste).

situation is more important to japanese words than to english words.

>>12502801
well hell buy your self a ticket to Japan then you don't need visa

>>12502033
That's fucked up. At my uni, we can sign up for one language class at the local language school per semester for free. The beginner courses are really hard to get into because they're full pretty much 10 (no joke) seconds after they open up online registration. Their servers also crash every semester after about 30 seconds from the heavy load so you might as well give up if you're not going to F5 every couple seconds starting 15 minutes before registration opens. I somehow got in every single time, and now I'll be attending "Japanese 7" next semester. That's actually the farthest a japanese course has ever lasted at that language school. Usually, they get cancelled after at most 4-5 semesters due to a lack people who want to continue.

I've had the same teacher for 3 years now. She japanese and she's really nice and professional. We had a few weeaboos for the first couple semesters, but they're gone now. If someone tries to bring up anime or manga, she mostly ignores it. We only meet once a week, so the progress is kinda slow. But I like it that way, because it gives me time to study vocab and kanji.
Unfortunately, this will probably be the last semester. There are only about 10 people left, so the language school administration didn't want us to continue. They'd rather have another fucking beginners class with 40+ people who quit after a couple weeks. Fuck that shit. Our teacher went and talked to the administration and got special permission to continue our course for one more semester even though we're way below the required minimum number of people.
Going through all of this just for us, I'm really going to miss her after this semester is over. Listening to her talk about japanese every day life and traditions from time to time was very relaxing, and the way she explained the material was very easy to follow. Oh well.

No idea why I wrote this. Sorry for blogging. And thank you for reading.

>>12503966
She sounds like an awesome lady and I would have stuck in there with you.

>>12504017
She really is. Studying on my own after all of this is going to suck.

>>12502163
same here bro although I sometimes can't understand the English part because of the accent

>>12503899
Why would I want to go to Japan?

>>12504481
'Cause it's nice here.

>>12504481
no crime

>>12503966
you could just ask her to stay in touch after the class is over every so often to get some speaker practice

Quality otaku culture thread :)

>>12471526
Go to Japan in the middle of August, then tell me how your deodorant helped. Pro-tip, it all gets washed off within 20 minutes from the insane amount of sweat/humidity.

>>12504056
>>12504017
>>12503966
She sounds just like my Chinese teacher. I hope that when I go to teach English in Japan I can mirror that same devotion...

Looking at some people's Japanese classes, I guess I'm fucking lucky that I got into a decent university which seems to have competent professors and non-weeb infested classes. It baffles me that some of these classes are taught by non-native speakers.

>mfw I had to restrain myself in order to not say "yukkuri sheitte ne" when teacher of my japanese 101 course says we are going to take it easy and do the basics

>>12506049
Fuck off greentexting homo.

You'll be learning for years from now.

Decades, if you're not good.

Are you willing to make such a commitment?

what about latin alphabet they use? their font looks different and i was wondering where can i find all letters?
pic related, first word is ms gothic and the other one is pasted

>>12506429
use microsoft ime

>>12506049
holy shit you are an embarrassing douche

>>12506594
Not that guy but I've heard that Google's has more kanji/vocab but comes with compatability issues so I'm not really sure which to pick.

>>12506594
i just found "Generator For Fullwidth Characters", thanks anon

PEOPLE FROM THIS SCHOOL HAVE CONTACTED ME AND WANT MY CV

http://ejje.weblio.jp/content/Hokkaido+Otaru+Choryo+High+school

IT'S HAPPENING

(I'm only posting it here because things have changed to the subject of Japanese-English learning bridges)

http://ejje.weblio.jp/content/Hokkaido+Otaru+Choryo+High+school

>>12493021
This blows my mind. I always thought of it as XのY with the focus on X but really the focus is on Y with X specifying further.

It's not that hard you only need time and self-discipline

>>12513913
Self-discipline is hard to find. Considering I go days to weeks without brushing my teeth or showering I find it amazing that I've been able to do a half hour of anki reps a day for the past year.

>>12513941
Self-discipline isn't found, but exercised.
>I go days to weeks without brushing my teeth or showering
I understand about the not showering but take care of your teeth, anon. That scum (plaque) eats away at your enamel, produces cavities and is a cause of bad breath. You may think you can just go to the dentist, but he will not be happy about your lack of maintenance. If you don't care, why should he?

I am on my second day learning japanese and I'm wondering why "ワタシ" doesn't mean "I" but 私は"
does.
I guess I don't understand how japanese words are formed

>>12514395
Katakana is for words of foreign origin.

Is djt dead?

tfw whenever something gets sentimental or deep in a VN you barely understand shit

>>12514752
Also used for emphasis.

>>12469530
I started watching anime to listen to the language. I basically started learning because I love the mentality i japan

>>12514395
Katakana (which is the name of the character you used in ワタシ is only used for foreign words (i.e. personal names), and some very specific situations.

私 is the kanji for 'I', but は is not part of it. は is a particle that indicates the subject.

You should eiher write using the kanji (私) or the hiragana characters, which are used for Japanese words (わたし).

>>12514825
It's up to the user to pick whatever they want to write with, shut the fuck up if you have no idea what you were talking about.

>>12514836
The only people who write entirely in hiragana are small children who haven't learned kanji yet (around first grade) or people with mental disabilities.

The only people who write entirely in katakana are "edgy" middle schoolers who think it's cool to do so.

If you don't fit into one of those categories, you best get to using kanji.

>>12514805
I've never known that feel. I paid particular attention and looked everything up as much as I could to drag out parts like those since I wanted them to last longer.

>>12514855
naraba watashi wa zenbu romaji ni kaitara dou imi o motteru ka?

>>12514860
ローマ字の話をしていないのは誰も使わないからだよ
勘弁してくれよぉ、目が痛いっす

>>12514868
I can only type hiragana, katakana, or kanji because my IME allows me to input romaji and receive Japanese. If you made me write the kana on paper I'd probably have a 25% pass rate.

IME is so great.

>>12514907
That's a shame. Writing the characters by hand is really satisfying.

>>12514859
Looking up metaphors and the like is pretty hard though. Shit like that makes me wanna punch a wall or something when I don't understand it. Same thing when it's some joke I don't get.

>>12514936
True dat. As I was learning to write them over the summer I'd fill pages with kana and show them to the Japanese thread on /int/.

Here was me practicing katakana. And yes, I know the grammar and syntax and "spelling" is full of mistakes; I was just getting used to writing the characters themselves.

Studying this language really makes you aware of how big the difference is between the ability of being able to produce and construct sentences and simply being able to read and understand.

Grammar is a dick and getting your vocab to sit as active usable vocabulary is fucking hard. Reading, not so much.

>>12515015
Honestly it's not that big of a leap once you have a massive library of vocabulary in your head. You just need to get instant feedback from someone who knows the language rather than making sentences in a void and grammar-checking and is-this-the-right-word-to-use-checking for ten minutes to make sure everything's correct. I went from stuttering autist (who could read and understand Japanese perfectly) to fluent speaker in two weeks after moving to Japan.

>>12515015
Are you me? Granted that i'm only on my second year of studying. Reading is easy, speaking can become a chore depending on how much I need to talk and if it's on the spot.

Seems like either speaking with Natives (through some means via internet) or moving to Japan is the cure.

>>12519058
If you have Skype, try skypech.com or skypechannel.net to find some Japanese people to talk to. If you put up an ad and say you're a foreigner, you'll probably reel in at least two or three people. Either that or you can search through ads for someone you think you'll hit it off with. It'll probably take a while before you meet someone who will talk to you regularly, though.

>>12514907
kana are really easy to write.
kanji not so much.

>>12514994
>=)

>>12469789
Asian people were found to have fewer sweat glands under their armpits and the groin than other races. They also tend to have flakey earwax because of the same gene

They simply smell less than us

>>12469530
>I'm on /jp/ and said I only have seen DBZ and had no idea who AKB48 was

They looked at you weird because you are not a businessman who is obviously learning it for those purposes and don't look one, and because you are also obviously a liar.

I thought that after learning Japanese, all the works I read in translation would become shining masterpieces of literary genius, but instead they mostly stayed the same.

Probably because most of the shit I'm into actually gets translated. And I'm not really into VNs.

Oh well.

anyone know of any japanese podcasts that are free to download and listen to? I'd like to immerse myself a bit more. I don't care about the subject of the podcast, but something related to video games would be neat. Otherwise anything works.

>>12522145
Sakuratsushin
I heard them mention Monster Hunter 4 and Animal Crossing in one podcast, but that was it.