/jp/ - Otaku Culture

>>12330851

I'm actually the exact opposite.

I keep putting it off because of:

>time constraints I.e. job and job related study urgh;
>fear of not completing it and giving up;
>opportunity cost fears e.g. will I regret doing it given there probably isn't much in the way of real return on investment and that there are plenty of other things I could / would be doing because I have ADHD and interests vary at times;

I'm a massive weeb but that's about it.

TLDR: Essentially my pragmatism is saying no despite my interest in doing it.

Advice /jp/ please.

>>12330888
Move to Japan. Then you have no choice.

Why would anyone be on /jp/ without being able understand Japanese.

>>12330896

Lol

>>12330851

after I saw the Davido-kun vid and I realized no matter how much I practice it will always sound off or weird and they will laugh at me.

Too many kanji.
Gives me a headache.
I just make due with rikaichan nowadays.

It's too hard to remember kana/kanji. I get distracted too easily to study, gave up after learning some hiragana.

>>12330900
Why would you ever talk to someone?

not enough exposure

tried doing reps every day, tried reading and listening every day. was too scared to actually write anything or talk. after a year and a half I made no progress, gave up.

well, I can read stuff relating to mahjong, kind of.

厄介

Why are you giving up? You've got a whole life to learn so stop being lazy.

I learned for many years because I was told I would enjoy Japanese media.
The problem is that Japanese media is shit. I almost regret it, but it's a fun language at the very least.

>>12333612
If you're consistently doing reps and reading and listening, there's no way you didn't make any progress at all in a year and a half unless you're literally brain-damaged.

>>12333667
I probably am. I can't really learn anything. maybe I'm just not set out for self-teaching.

I began learning 6 years ago, but I don't do anything to improve my vocabulary and my grammar. So, from time to time, when browsing the japanese internet, I recognize a kanji used everywhere and that's how I improve my meager knowledge of japanese. I probably learned in all that time the same amount of information as you would in one week of intensive studying.

>>12333628
>but it's a fun language at the very least.

In what respect?

>>12330888
This. Memorising thousands of characters requires a lot of effort, so I keep putting it off until I have enough time (not sure I will ever have it though). Also the fact I would be doing all that just for media consumption doesn't help.

>>12334598
>Memorizing thousands of characters
Why don't you just stop that dumb bullshit and learn words instead

>>12331610
>kana
Come on buddy, at least give at a fair shot.

>>12330851
I was going to learn it, I printed off the characters and stuff but I am supposed to be learning French and I am trying to limit how much of a weeabo I am.

>>12330851
The more I learned the language, the more I lost interest in the language because then I realized once I learn the language I'd be enjoying the same things I'm enjoying right now, except in Japanese.

>>12334601
Doesn't change the fact I'd need to learn over a thousand different "drawings", since words consist of them.

>>12334598
>Also the fact I would be doing all that just for media consumption doesn't help.
That's a perfectly good reason for learning a language.

Started learning it twice I believe and just gave up everytime I saw a single sentence in Japanese. It's too intimidating and I don't believe in myself.

>>12334730

Sorta devil's advocate but

No its not.

There is no real return on your investment in bettering yourself and refining yourself as a person, given its only for media consumption.

Also given the way the internet works, some good citizen is probably going to translate your shit for free anyway.

>>12334773
But, media consumption can make you better~

MuvLuv made me working out and running everyday as an habit. And I stopped to be a massive faggot when SHTF. I just think about Yuuko and know she'd sigh at me. I am not even joking. Well ok, that one got translated anyway.

Anyway, is English your only language? When you learn another one, you'd be surprised how much gates it open: in relationships, access to data you'd never imagined existed, possible paths for your career, etc...

Given your mindset you'd give up fairly quickly though. But that's okay, to each their own.

>some good citizen is probably going to translate your shit for free anyway.
Be happy people are learning it so they can translate shit for you with a "fuck youuuu, you are so sloooooow" as a gift then. It's pretty likely there will be no more attention whores for doing that shit for some obscure stuff by the end of the decade though.

>>12334822
Alot of assumptions in your post but fine we're all friends here anyway so

>MuvLuv made me working out & running everyday as an habit. &I stopped to be a massive faggot when SHTF. I just think about Yuuko & know she'd sigh at me

Thats more about finding something you truly believe in and fighting hard for it. People in general do that for religion, a lover, nationhood, faith, beliefs etc.and its no different in this respect.

>>12334822
>English your only language? When you learn another one, you'd be surprised how much gates it open: etc...

No I do know another language though I am not fluent in it. The example opportunities you gave have more to do with the inherent redeeming qualities of the person than anything else. No doubt the additional language is an advantageous but you have to have the legs to run with it: be a genuine and endearing person to enter a relationship, have the academic qualifications to enter said career in the first place.

You're quite right I am a bit negative and am really only discussing this as way of being devil's advocate. But that's okay, to each their own.

>>12334822
>Be happy people are learning it so they can translate shit for you with a "fuck youuuu, you are so sloooooow" as a gift then. It's pretty likely there will be no more attention whores for doing that shit for some obscure stuff by the end of the decade though.

Quite the contrary, and I'm not saying this for the purpose of refuting you, I do leave a thank you message to them for their hard work when I can. As for the wait between translations there pretty to do in the world whilst waiting. And you seriously underestimate philanthropy online and in the world. Its one of the main reasons online Wikipedia has survived for so long and succeeded despite being nonforprofit. Attention whores is not a nice term to say about the translators. Whats more you & I probably won't still be interested in the stuff we are now by decades end.

>>12334773
This 'return on investment' stuff is just bullshit that monolingual people use to justify their inferiority.
Learning another language is inherently beneficial. It's fun, it stimulates your mind, it improves your understanding of your primary language. Even learning a dead language would go some way to bettering yourself as a person. Learning new things is not a cost that needs to be justified; it's a benefit.
If learning that language also serves some practical purpose, that's even better. And if you spend a lot of time consuming Japanese media, that's a pretty significant benefit. Even if/when things are translated, the original language will generally provide a better experience than an amateur translation.
But you don't need a 'return on investment' from a language. It's like saying that you shouldn't learn to play the guitar unless you're looking for a job as a guitarist.

>>12334773
I have a list of shit not translated. Where are they then huh? HUH?

>Thats more about finding something you truly believe in and fighting hard for it. People in general do that for religion, a lover, nationhood, faith, beliefs etc.and its no different in this respect.
I agree. I just felt it a little preposterous to say that media consumption won't lead to anything, so I had to give an exemple.

>The example opportunities you gave have more to do with the inherent redeeming qualities of the person than anything else.
Indeed. However, personality alone won't give you those potential opportunities if you can't speak with those people. You can learn the language and never make japanese friends of course, but whatever. That's not like we have full control over the outcome.

>>12334873
>Quite the contrary, and I'm not saying this for the purpose of refuting you, I do leave a thank you message to them for their hard work when I can.
Don't worry anon, I was not taking that on you but on the whole weeb community. I just felt like saying it here because having a translation means there must be people learning the language beforehand.

>>12334611
Like I said, I can't study, I'm too dumb and there is no way for me to remember random lines after I see it for the first time. Sometimes when I watch variety and a text appears there are characters I know so I pause the video and see if I remember what each mean but going that way it's gonna take me years before I remember the whole kana.

>>12334926

Not him but what list and media material?

>>12334926

Learn Japanese then.

>>12330896
y-yeah, what stupid b-bakas!

>>12334601
Is this a good idea?

>>12336172
Not him but I think that yes. You learn readings easily and you get actual words.

Knowing kanjis one by one with all their lectures is a huge boost in litteracy, but if you want to start by that you are in for a rough time.

When I'll be fluent enough in reading advanced stuff, I'll tackle the Kanken DS games to reinforce my knowledge of kanjis. But until then, words it is.

I gave up with Japanese because I became too self-conscious about learning it and eventually gave up being a weeaboo, stopped watching anime and just avoided associating with things Japanese.
Now I kinda want to learn it again just to finish it out, but I don't care enough, as I'm already going to school to learn German.

>>12336196
I see. Thanks. After being surrounded by japanese media everyday for two years I might as well start learning the damn language.

1. Japanese is really hard for anglo-languaged people.

2. I am immensely poor and cannot afford proper classes or tutoring

3. despite being able to get learning material online for cheap or free, learning alone will not garner the same effective results as a spoken language class or immersion. I would end up studying nonstop for 20 years and still read at a junior high level.

4. Im an autistic weeb on the jay

>>12336234
>3. despite being able to get learning material online for cheap or free, learning alone will not garner the same effective results as a spoken language class or immersion. I would end up studying nonstop for 20 years and still read at a junior high level.
Funny thing is, it's actually the opposite. You just have the willpower of a slug (and the fact that you are finding well defined excuses not to try is a proof of that).

I started and stopped dozens of times and then eventually my doctor gave me a prescription for adderall. Been studying 10 hours a day for the last year.

>>12336245
theres people in the DJT who would say differently.
many of those people have been in there years and still apparently arent good enough.
some even use drugs to make them study harder.

If its going to occupy my entire life, is it really worth it? I love to learn but people seem to make it sound too impossible.

and by the time i finish learning, wouldnt japan be like america and all the good things about it would have been destroyed? its already happening.

You say its the opposite but you dont seem to be giving any evidence that its not going to take up an immense amount of my life.

>>12336290
The guys you are talking about are simply not doing enough works or burn out, take it again 6 months later and have to relearn most of it, ad vitam aeternam.

It will take a huge amount of your life because you'll use it as much as you should when you'll understand moon. You are saying this as if there was an end to the quest. Are you perfect in English (100% mastery of vocabulary, grammatical rules, dialects, slang)?

And seriously, don't take DJT as a reference for anything.

>>12336245
I always thought that was just a lie. I spent 5 years grinding anki reps, reading through textbooks and websites on grammar, crawling through Japanese material and creating my own decks as I learned new vocabulary, as well as having as much immersion as possible for most of the days and the best I can do is read and partially understand what's going on in some untranslated VNs. Meanwhile, some person I talk to occasionally took 4 semesters of Japanese in college (2 years) and has reached JLPT N1, can speak well, comprehend verbal speech as well as read with ease, without any self teaching or studying outside of what was required for his courses. When I started out, the method advertised 2 years of self-studying to be able to read stuff with ease, but I don't know. I'm probably just retarded and can't learn stuff properly, though.

The only reason learning Japanese might be a waste of time is if the only thing you like is (recent) anime. For games/manga/LNs/eroge your options are severely limited without knowing the language, and even where translations exist for those things, they're mostly really bad. For a weeb, learning Japanese is pretty much the best thing you can do for yourself. Most people don't even realize the vast amount of material they're missing out on.

Okay, it's probably not going to further your career or whatever, but that's true for basically any language besides English and the dominant language of wherever you happen to reside. And since when did /jp/ care about careers anyway? Entertainment is a perfectly valid reason to learn a language.

>>12336323
Oh wow, you completely messed up somewhere. If even immersion AND all the grinding didn't do a shit for you skills, you must get examinated.

"as much immersion as possible for most of the days" sounds fishy though. You probably escaped in your L1 material at any occasion to procrastinate you could get.

>>12336323
On average, how many hours each day did you study? I don't grind anki as much since it doesn't work very well for me in comparison to just reading, but I read for the majority of the day. Been doing that for a little over a year and I'm at the point where I can understand most of what I play.

Your study method is overall almost identical to my own, so the only significant difference that I can think of would have to be how much time per day that you put into it. If you're going to classes then you have to put in a minimum amount of time just to pass, but if you're teaching yourself then it's a lot foggier. On one hand you could put in a lot more time than someone who goes to classes, but on the other hand, a lot of those days could have just been one hour of serious study and then procrastination/reading material that doesn't challenge you for the rest. Because there's no teacher and you have to hold yourself accountable for these kinds of thing though, several years could go by and you could say that you've been studying for several years, it would technically be correct, but how many days in those years were actually spent studying as diligently as possible?

>>12336318
How do you work constantly and not burn out.
and how do you still manage to live a decent life while devoting all of your time to studying.

>>12336388
Not the same guy, but

>How do you work constantly and not burn out.
You just keep going. Aside from something like staying awake for a long time and then being too physically exhausted to continue thinking clearly, I don't believe that burnout exists in the context of studying. Sure, boredom exists, but you can always push through it and read another page, then another, and then another. It's not like in weight lifting where your arms eventually give out on you after a certain amount of time and you couldn't lift the bar up again even if you tried as hard as possible.

>and how do you still manage to live a decent life while devoting all of your time to studying.
Eventually it becomes enjoyable, especially once the line begins to blur and it becomes harder and harder to distinguish between what feels like studying Japanese and what feels like enjoying the process of reading or listening to something that you're interested in.

>>12336373
Admittedly, I spent more time studying during my earlier days when I was just learning Kanji and grammar. Time spent studying (vocab reps, reading through dictionaries of the grammar, actual study, etc) per day was probably 1-2 hours, and then whatever time I had left was just spent reading through Japanese materials (VNs/blogs/manga/2chan/whatever). Unfortunately, I couldn't spend the 14 waking hours of the days reading Japanese stuff because job/classes during the years, but when I was home I usually did that. As of late though (past year maybe), I stopped the formal study and just read whatever I feel like reading and try to comprehend as much as I can. But you're probably right, the way I originally stated my experiences over-exaggerated how much of that time was actually spent learning.

Diligence is another thing. Trying to learn stuff when tired (because of work or other classes) is a lot less productive than having all of the free time to spend learning.

>>12334773
>There is no real return on your investment in bettering yourself and refining yourself as a person, given its only for media consumption.
These arguments always make me lose my shit. Because you're on fucking 4chan. Quit being lazy.

>>12336423
lol you fell for it

bro you cant learn japanese without fucking immersion those state dept numbers saying you need 2200ish hours to learn weird asian languages?? (HINT: THOSE ARE WITH FULL IMMERSION COURSES WITH ACCESS TO NATIVE SPEAKERS)

lol reading vns with a parser and grinding anki and you think you're going to get anywhere?

whoever made that original DJT and popularized that dumb method is a fucking genius

how much aggregate fucking has he done these past years you think? hours wasted? laughs had

good shit

>>12336506
ayyy lmaooooo......

>>12336284

How is your japanese after a year of stimulant-fueled marathon studying?

>>12336668
I can comfortably read most of what I'm interested in, I occasionally need to look up a word here or there but it only takes a second. My main focus at the moment is listening practice and getting my listening comprehension up to speed with my reading, since I neglected in favor of trying to read as much as I could.

>>12336709
Any specifics for what youre doing with the listening practice?

>>12336423
the problem is that you focused on the wrong things, you should spend most of your time reading.

>>12336215

If you're not going to go all the way with it, you may as well just give up to save time. Japanese requires at least a decade of consistent study to be proficient at it and the better part of a lifetime to attain true fluency.

If you don't think your career or hobbies are going to be centered around japan in the next 10 years, then learn a different language that might actually get you a job like chinese or arabic (which would take just as long to learn anyway). Or learn a different skill like programming.

But if you just can't get enough of japanese culture and media, then by all means keep doing what you love.

>>12336751
About two months ago when I started focusing more on my listening practice then I did a lot of my initial listening practice through writing down transcripts. I'd take an episode of something that already had Japanese subtitles, I'd put the subtitle file to the side, and then try to listen closely and attempt to type out everything that they said as best as possible while rewinding as much as required. When I finished the episode then I would compare my transcript to the text from the Japanese subtitles and see where my mistakes were.

This was pretty exhausting and time consuming, but the results were worth it. About a month of doing this as much as I could each day brought my listening comprehension up enough that I'm now doing the rest of my listening practice by watching things and rewinding or pausing if I hit a spot where I lost what they were saying. I never let dialog go by if I completely missed what they were saying, but at this point my comprehension is decent enough that the time it takes to write out the transcripts is too much to justify it. It's great earlier on to get past that part where it feels like they're talking so fast/slurring so much that everything but the occasional word goes over your head, but it's not worth it when it's the other way around and it's only the occasional sentence that you need to rewind and listen to a few times instead of entire blocks of the episode.

I can't give up Japanese now because my company expects me to use it on a daily basis. (・´з`・)

>>12336931
>at least a decade of consistent study to be proficient at it
I'm not sure if I agree with that. I don't know exactly what counts as proficient, but it's been awhile since I've run into anything that required me to reference anything other than a dictionary in order to read. I guess it comes down to the hours per day though. A bit over a year at 10 hours a day totals to something over 3650 hours of study, but if you studied an hour a day then it would take a decade to reach 3650, two hours a day to reach 7300 in a decade, etc. My point though is that when it's possible and not particularly difficult to reach complete the total amount of studying that someone would do if they studied for one hour a day for an entire decade and reach that within only a year of solid study, then numbers like "X amount of years to reach.." can be misleading. It's the hours per day that matters the most.

>>12336931
>Japanese requires at least a decade of consistent study to be proficient at it and the better part of a lifetime to attain true fluency.

Maybe if your definition of proficient is most people's definition of high fluency, and your definition of "true fluency" is winning the Akutagawa Ryunosuke prize.

>>12336931
>If you don't think your career or hobbies are going to be centered around japan in the next 10 years, then learn a different language that might actually get you a job like chinese or arabic (which would take just as long to learn anyway).

If you want to work in Japan, learn Japanese. If you want to work in China, learn Chinese. If you want to work in the Middle East, learn Arabic. It's that simple.

There's so many jobs here in Japan.

>Or learn a different skill like programming.

Learn both. Language ability won't get you far.

>>12337004
language ability alone*

>>12336333

neo /jp/ is dominated by normies

>>12336424

I'm on 4chan and the jay because it helps me chill and fills my need for social interaction.

>>12337004
>There's so many jobs here in Japan.

Such as?

I'm trying to learn Japanese but it's tough.

I'm a linguistics nerds who's normally really great with languages, I read linguistics articles and textbooks for fun, hell I spent 200 bucks a few months ago on a comparative grammar of Latin and Greek and three books on Indo-European linguistics but Japanese just murders me. Fuck.

The grammar isn't hard at all, I find it very fun but it's the fucking writing system. Kanji can go to hell even if they are beautiful.

>>12330851
I honestly don't know OP. I would like to learn it, I have the tools ready, I could most likely find the time, but I just don't do it. Same thing happens to a lot of other things I'd like to do, it's pretty annoying.

>>12330851
My experience with the only other language I learned besides English is that if you are not actively using it to converse with live people, your skill will deteriorate. so yeah I stopped.

When I try to study, I always burn out quickly because I try to go stupidly fast, for example adding 100 words per day. Doesn't help that after my daily dose of either work or school, I don't feel like studying a single word, let alone 100.

>>12337731
>The grammar isn't hard at all, I find it very fun but it's the fucking writing system.
Fuck you and everyone who says this, I have the most trouble with the grammar. Kanji is not fucking hard, the fucking grammar is.

Kanji
>the more you see it, the more you know it
>once you've written maybe 50 different kanji, you'll notice there's a pattern in the stroke order

Grammar
>Do I use られる...?
>Can I use で here?
>How do I say this in Japanese? Which particle do I use? Which conjugation do I use? Does this sound like natural Japanese?

I learned Chinese and talk on Chinese communities about anime.

I can understand a good deal of one-off phrases in Japanese from it, and the Chinese will not automatically rage-ban you for being a foreigner.

Last year, I took a beginner japanese class for a semester. I didn't continue with it. About 4 months ago I started up again. Gave up twice in between.

I wish I would've continued taking classes. I learned really fast. I knew basically no hiragana or katakana and was forced to learn them within the first month of class for a test. It's hard to motivate by yourself.

>>12337770
>Do I use られる...?
easy
>Can I use で here?
easy
>How do I say this in Japanese?
moderate
>Which particle do I use?
easy
>Which conjugation do I use?
easy
>Does this sound like natural Japanese?
hell on earth

>>12337770
Maybe for you. But I am practically a savant when it comes to grammar, I learn that stuff so quickly it's uncanny.

>>12337770
>Japanese
>Grammar
quoting ur ass, nip has no grammar

nobody to speak japanese to lol

>>12337803
>tfw no studybuddy to practice speaking Japanese to

>>12337790

The "natural sounding japanese" part really is hell. Not only is it the final boss, but even if you perfect your accent and phrasing and could mimic a countryside villager or yakuza boss, if you arn't japanese or even asian-looking any japanese person will just think "wow this foreigner speaks surprisingly good japanese, i wonder if they could practice english with me"

>>12337811
Or maybe they do not want to really to talk to people outside of their comfort zone in the first place.

I I had a similar lifestyle in the years it would take to truly have a good grasp of the language than I might but the reality is I'll probably be working and dealing with the daily grind before then, it'll probably get tougher just to browse this site and enjoy hobbies in general by then

>>12337963

This. So much this.

>>12334773
>some good citizen is probably going to translate your shit for free anyway.
maybe I wanna be that good citizen

>tfw born in country and speak fluently language that's grammarly similar to Japan

新着無し

>>12336506
whatever, if the guy gets full immersion for a few months he should be fine. He just needs to take that final step.

>>12336423
get on a plane motherfucker, that's all you got to do. or get skype.

>>12337004
If all you had was a bachelors in history and you were fluent in Japanese and English, what job could you get?

Oh yeah, besides english teacher, of course.

>>12338085
You could upgrade your degree and become a lecturer.

>>12337786
>within the first month
Anon, kana is learnable in days, if not hours if you grind them enough.

>>12338175

Yeah but what would you achieve by just learning kana?

How do you justify / explain to family, friends and peers that you learned Japanese because "i'm an otaku who loves Japanese media despite never visiting Japan and not knowing a single Japanese person"?

>>12338459
Well, if you get it faster, you have more time to learn the rest. Seriously, I don't get why you are asking that question out of the blue.

>>12338465
I never explained a shit. They are too busy being impressed I am doing something they feel is impossible for their tiny brains to ask, while I only fap to eroge.

>>12338465
My mother doesn't give a shit and I don't have any friends or peers.

>>12338459
the point was that if you consider a month a fast pace for kana, you're retarded.

>>12337770

Just read only and you won't have a problem with grammer.

>>12336423
I learned Japanese pretty much exclusively from reading. My only rule was forcing myself to read VNs 1 hour a day. Never did any vocab studying at all.
My grammar study amounted to looking up basic particle usage.

>>12338465
I plan on learning it. No friends or peers, and my family will probably be too amazed to ask why. Or just say it's future proofing yourself.

>>12330851
I was really interested when I got into the Wani Kani beta but I can't afford it on my NEET salary. I tried Anki but got frustrated because it didn't work exactly like wani.

>>12330851
Ì learn didn't give up im just retarded and learn like a baka.

>>12333762
That's how I learned English, for the most part.

To the anons who complain it's only for media consumption - every language will extend your horizons of thought and understanding, as a language is what we use to describe the world around us. Different languages -> different points of view.

Also, fuck hour/rep counts, every brain works differently and you might just be the talented one with some builtin linguistic help from your neurons.

>>12334973
Man, trust me, I'm retarded too. Just going through grammar in tae kim right now is torturous because I'm so dumb, and it always makes me want to do something more fun, like punch myself in the dick.

Kana is fairly easy, though. I learned about 10-20 a day by spending two hours a day pounding them into my head on realkana. Took me two weeks, but it's doable, and even if you don't get much farther, actually recognizing kana when you see them feels pretty good.

I learned all the kana within two weeks of moving to Japan. I know virtually no kanji and can't speak Japanese. I get by pretty fine.

If I wasn't working 10-11 hours a day I'd actually practice but I just don't have the time for anything beyond phrases. As long as I can understand what my students say, I'm good.

Would it be faster to just start reading after learning the pronunciation and skip everything else?

I know three languages (native Polish, learned English and German).

My english is full of shitt gramma, but I learned it on my own, starting as a kid when i was translating NES games with a dictionary in hand.

I just can't grasp Asian languages.
Learning eng and ger was fun, because I made quick progres.
By just looking on the words I could at least recognise letters.

By looking at the jap sentences I just see big fucking mess that is giving me headache.

I learned hira and kana, tried to achieve something more, but failed three times.

Fuck kanji.

>>12338939
Faster I don't know, but it's not necessarily a bad idea. Beware though, it will be violent.

Someone please explain the が partical in a way even a retarded 12 year old could understand.
I would suck your cock in gratitude.

>>12336421
Burnout is when you make slow progress and start procrastinating the fuck out of your next study session in some sort of post trauma reaction.

>>12336506
Aggregator doesn't even work with most games.
You'll have to ditch the training wheels sooner or later.

>>12338889

What do you do?

>>12339003
Probably eikawa.

>>12338970
I've tried the traditional method of learning Japanese and give up because I never feel like I'm making progress even when I am. I just figured that jumping into reading from the start would at least mean you're making noticeable progress every single day, even if it's just a kids manga or something.

>>12339031
>eikawa

Are they 10-11 hour work days as he indicated?

>>12339188
Dunno but he is probably factoring in commuting.

After I finished kanji damage and started learning vocab. I typed out a large portion of the dictionaries of basic and intermediate Japanese grammar and read visual novels for a few hours a day.

I learned more in that month of typing than I had in my previous 2 years of "studying". I wish I had the motivation to keep up that kind of effort but it's pretty damn hard. So now I take it easy.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/8lprxw4l8e5a5aa/grammar.txt

If anyone wants to make use of it so they can ctrl f the thing they want. It doesn't have all the points and it doesn't have all the extra details but you could use it in addition to the actual book to make anki cards like I was originally going to.

>>12339251
Had a quick look at that .txt and it seems like it would be good for going over stuff you've seen properly before, for revising. Thanks for sharing.

>>12339251
I will surely use it one day, thanks.

>>12339297
>Best guess for this image: queso emergency i pray to jesus

>>12339248

Thats stupid.

I finished the grammar book and memorized Hiragana/Katakana. I've been studying Kanji by repetition because I'm too lazy to study every single kanji individually. I hope I don't regret it one day.

>All these folks using Anki
Just use memrise instead.

>>12330851
i was having a lot of issues.
i started learning in my freshmen year, did it off and on for sophomore and junior year.
>really didnt have any skills, barely knew hiragana.
>because i was doing it off and on as a self-study with really relaxed parameters,
>was able to go for my senior year.
>skill rose exponentially there.
>more importantly, excellent speech skills, and oral comprehension
still struggle with a lot of kanji, but 400 is pretty good.
i made a lot of good friends too and the life experience was invaluable.

>>12344627
>course
No thanks

I keep putting it off which is really a shame. Starting next year I'll visit a course, that ought to keep me on my toes.

>>12336323
>reading through textbooks and websites on grammar
You don't just read through those lessons. You learn and exercise them.

Your method sounds like it really lacked structure and aim. (I had the same problem a few years back.)

1. Learn the kana and how they're pronounced (if you haven't already). Write them out with proper stroke order, too.
2. Take some grammar lessons (learning a little vocabulary while doing that). When you're done...
3. Figure out where you want to go with the language from there: Focus on speaking and understanding spoken Japanese or focus on being able to read? This part is key.
- If you want to focus on comprehension, audio shows or anime/live action is probably for you. (You don't have to watch shows raw, just make sure you're listening while reading the subs and look up words.) I don't know of a place dedicated to speaking, but I'd guess paying attention to and mimicking intonation should help.
- If you want to focus on reading, I think kanji is the way to go. Learn the kanji individually; write them, recite the meanings and readings while you do so. (This works and pays off well for me.) Avoid manga with [lots of] furigana; it thwarts your hard work.

Both methods will build vocab, so you're not really missing anything. If you feel you are, all you need to do is switch tracks/incorporate what you feel is missing.

Something I wish I knew from the start:
Japanese is not difficult, but fun if you have the heart and interest.

>some person I talk to occasionally took 4 semesters of Japanese in college (2 years) and has reached JLPT N1, can speak well, comprehend verbal speech as well as read with ease, without any self teaching or studying outside of what was required for his courses.
This really sounds like bullshit. And there's nothing particularly good about "without any self teaching."

Gave up because of busy work schedule. It would actually help with my job if I had kept it up though, since my job often requires me to read through Japanese technical documentation. Maybe I should give it another go.

>>12334822
>is English your only language? When you learn another one, you'd be surprised how much gates it open: in relationships, access to data you'd never imagined existed, possible paths for your career, etc...
This and this >>12334903, very much.

Learning another language broadens your horizons in ways you wouldn't even imagine.
Japanese has presented moments where I better understood my own language (English), realized just how its use can vary or just started seeing some everyday things differently.

>>12334601
Focusing on kanji over vocab works, anon.

>>12336196
>Knowing kanjis one by one with all their lectures is a huge boost in litteracy, but if you want to start by that you are in for a rough time.
You're not really in for a rough time when learning kanji individually unless you don't want to learn them that way or approach without a method.

>>12336234
>2. I am immensely poor and cannot afford proper classes or tutoring
In this age, you don't need "proper" classes nor tutoring (unless you have absolutely no idea what you're doing and want to have your hand held). Believe in yourself, anon.
>learning alone will not garner the same effective results as a spoken language class or immersion.
That's assuming the class actually has native or fluent speakers and it's not like you can't immerse yourself in non-anime tv shows.
Classes do not instill effective results; a lot of it is the student's own perseverance.

Having your own reins on your learning is better, provided you know what it is you want and an idea of how to get it done.

>>12344627
Just use physical cards instead.

>>12330851

Kanji

I guess I will start practice writing..

Tomorrow.

>>12338465
My dad is the one who encouraged me to learn in the first place. I wanted him to buy me imported games online and he said he'd only do it if I learned Japanese.

>>12346207
You sound like you have a cool dad.

>>12346207
>>12346713
Definitely. As for mine, he laughed a bit when I said I was learning Japanese. He also does not let me use his credit card, which is the only possibly within reach and my only way to buy things I like. Sigh...

I keep dropping after learning a few particles because Kanji. Not because it's hard, it is, but that's not why. It's because I've always been horrible with studying any material and because I'm unorganized and don't know where to start with Kanji. I recently decided to just go through the RTK Anki deck and write them down one by one, like how people learn Kanji by grade. This should work. I figure I'll do this first, THEN resume studying grammar. If there's a more efficiant way, feel free to let me know.

When namasensai shows how to write a letter should I watch how he writes it or the picture he shows? They look completely different

Example first lesson i

>>12346029
This. You don't just into logographic languages. You can not infer the writing of the word by hearing it, nor can you infer the sound of the word by reading it.

>>12346822
I would not put off the grammar. Try making a deck from the words in the lessons. Being able to read a sentence feels really good and helps for learning. Doing kanji with no context is a mistake I think.

>>12346822
>I keep dropping after learning a few particles because Kanji.
What does grammar have to do with kanji? Is it really time for you to be worrying about kanji while doing grammar? It's to be started when you're ready to dive into reading, if not in small doses presented in lessons.

See if >>12345668 is of any help.

Pulling kanji from RTK and writing them down sounds fine, but what exactly do you expect to work by doing this?

>>12347331
>>12347457
Thanks, this helps a lot.

>What does grammar have to do with kanji?
Like I said, I've always been horrible with studying any material. This includes getting confused about little things like the order to study in.
>Is it really time for you to be worrying about kanji while doing grammar
Kanji in grammar lessons. But I have a grasp on how to go about this now.

This thread is the blind leading the blind.

>>12348188
oh sighted man

grant me your wisdom

>>12348194
I already did. I have the wisdom to know how elementary everyone in this thread is. It's sort of embarrassing to read.

>>12348188
But I can read.

>>12348211
And what have you read?

>>12348213
Your posts.

>>12348215
And what did they say?

>>12348200
that's not "granting"

that's "lording it over everyone"

similar but distinct

>>12348216
Things that were not helpful and contributed nothing to the world. Much like my own.

>>12348218
No, I granted you the knowledge that everyone posting in this thread is elementary.

>>12348219
I don't think you know the definition of "nothing".

>>12348222
I believe I do.

>>12348223
I believe you don't.

>>12348222
imagine a bunch of blind people attempting to figure out what an elephant is like

and you waltz in and announce "you are all blind, and possibly retarded"

it's true that you have shared a piercing insight with them but it's not anything anybody didn't know before, or useful in any way

>>12348225
I believe we are through with this exchange.

>>12348226
From this knowledge you can derive the conclusion to not listen to advice given in this thread.

>>12348231
thanks for warning me to ignore what you had to say

the problem has solved itself

>>12348235
I don't think you have thought the problem through.

Now, now. Don't let this turn into a certain 毎日日本語のスレ.

Have any of you quitters been reinspired/motivated yet?

>>12348200
Then stop being such a fucker and share your insight. If you don't than you objectively know nothing and need to leave /jp/.

>>12348331
lording implied knowledge over others without ever actually saying anything like an obnoxious imposing ghost is part of /jp/ culture

>>12348331
Insight about what?

Why would anyone who doesn't know Japanese be in /jp/??

>>12348365
i don't know, you tell me

>>12348365
Because moot still hasn't added Japanese captcha like he promised he would three years ago.

I'm lazy and also have low self-esteem so I think I'm too stupid to learn another language anyways.

>>12336323
>Meanwhile, some person I talk to occasionally took 4 semesters of Japanese in college (2 years) and has reached JLPT N1, can speak well, comprehend verbal speech as well as read with ease, without any self teaching or studying outside of what was required for his courses.
That guy is either Korean or Chinese or had studied one of those languages a great deal before starting Japanese. Either way he had prior Kanji knowledge.

Have any of you considered the option of actually travelling there? I assume most of you live in developed countries, and have time to spare, because the jay.
There's so many opportunities for young people to immerse themselves in the actual country as a method to learn, even if it's just for a few months, and give you that little push. A lot of exchange programs for students, or simply young adults. And I guess a few of you even get autismbux to fund the ones that aren't funded which are usually the ones for students.

>>12346859
That guy doesn't know that much Japanese and his videos are full of errors in stroke order and pronunciation. I wish idiots would stop recommending him.

Just nowhere decent to study around here and felt I'd hit the limits of what was realistically possible (without horrendous time drain) by individual learning only, and the local area has no courses available.

Moving into a city very soon and looked up courses, turns out there are loads. So I'll be back on the nihon once I've moved.

>>12348880
Fuck off normalfag.

>>12348880
I'm not wasting my precious neetbux on going to Japan.

>>12348880
I don't want to go until I can speak and read properly. And have money.

>>12349694
you are going to waste years until you finally think you can speak and read properly. then you will arrive in japan and realize you have to start all over again because you learned how to speak it in an awkward way. going there is pretty much the only way to really grasp the cultural context and all that shit.

>>12349834
Thanks god there's Skype and a shit ton of other means to reach Japanese people outside of a bilingual exchange or travel. Beside, going to Japan doesn't guarantee your fluency because you can easily stay in your comfort zone there if you can't put up with self-education at home.

>>12330851
I started months ago, but then stopped when my computer broke.
Restarted again from zero two weeks ago and I'm doing a lot better than my first try

>>12348268
yeah I'm learning a useful language not one exclusively for porn games

>>12350203
is it english

>>12334684
They aren't drawing, never call them that again. Just as words are composed of letters, kanji are composed of radicals/smaller parts. Calling them drawings is completely off the mark.
>>12334598
>until you have enough time
If you started today, learning 5 characters a day, which would take like 20 minutes maximum, you would know all 3,000 "most-used" ones in less than three years. If you took a normal pace of 20, it would only take 100-150 days. Ergo, time is not an issue, when you start, is.

>>12350211
>Calling them drawings is completely off the mark.

川、山、etc

>>12350215
Those "pictographic" kanji are very few in number, and it's still wrong to call them drawings. That'd be like calling "U" a drawing of a bowl or something.

>>12337000
A rule of thumb i've heard is that learning any skill takes a thousand hours to become proficient at.

Afcoarse, when it comes to things like langauges. it doesn't really matter how many hours you put into them. as someone who grew up with the langauge, and thus learned at an age before 9-12 will generally always be better than you at the langauge.

>>12337000
How long have you been studying, at what rate? Well, when you were still actively studying, at any rate.

>>12350227
All words are drawings but not all drawings are words.

>>12350300
I went to google the definintion of "drawing" so I could argue with facts on my side but it begins an infinite loop of "a drawing is a picture, a picture is a drawing", so no debate can take place.

>>12338085
History? If you knew both JP and En and started networking a bit, you would land yourself a job very fast. Gauranteed.

>>12350320
What kind of networking? The IT field?

>>12350328
I meant networking as in building up a network with people who can land you a job. I'm afraid, that these days networking is mostly a requirement for any job. But for working in another country this will especially count.

Try to join some club or something, and meet people there. Then use those people to get deeper in the rabbit hole.

>>12338505
>My grammar study amounted to looking up basic particle usage.
I don't get this. If you encountered a sentence like しかし住人達のたゆまぬ努力は、厳しい立地を利点に変えることに成功する without any grammar study, what could you do? It'd be a mystery. Guessing meaning from vocabulary words while ignoring grammar isn't.. knowing Japanese.

>>12346794
Consider a debit credit card. Alternatively, you could get yourself a credit "voucher" which is identical to a creditcard, but cannot be charged.

If you happen to be Dutch: google for 3V debit card.

>>12330851
I keep making a lot of progress, then because I dont have people to talk to, little bits crack off, and then I get sick of studying the same things I've already studied before just to maintain it.

I've got a solid core that probably wont crumble, somewhere around 200~ kanji and basic conversational skills and grammar, but it's the extraneous shit over and over that wears me out.

>>12350458
A "solid core" of kanji is precisely 2,136 characters, not 200.

The fact that you say 200 is solid leads me to believe your basic conversational skills and grammar aren't too hot. Keep at it, mate.

>>12350339
Humans are not robots. They are capable of guessing grammar from context and words combined without explicit 'programming' of rules. Well, at least some of them.

>>12350998
"Guessing grammar" is half-impossible. For beginners, anyway. For example: 食べさせる. Causative form. Without grammar, one would think this means "to eat". However, with grammar knowledge, it means "to make eat / to cause the event of eating". Multiple this by four times in a sentence and you can see how just guessing from vocab doesn't work.

The cat ate and ran could turn into...

By making [it] eat, the cat wanted to run away.

In conclusion, guessing from vocab without caring about grammar simply does not work.

>>12350485
I meant 2000

>>12351046
Oh. Well, nevermind then. You're good.

>>12330851
Never gave up. I'm part of a professional company to translate indie titles now and I have never felt more fulfilled in my entire life.

Making a difference and helping the industry I love to succeed.

The anon that brought fortune summoners, recettear, HOLDOVER, and other things of interest from vector to /jp/.

>>12351087
Carpe Fulgur-dude?

>>12351102
He was from SA mainly, which is why they made that trainwreck of Fortune Summoners.

>>12338979

>>12351102
I hate the faggot forever for what he did to fortune lolis.

>>12351257
What did they even do besides adding towels around the girls while they were in the bath?

>>12330851
Studied for 4 years, not still given up. Planing on taking a trip to Japan to study further

>>12346996
So? Deal with it

>>12351190
why do you use ga for speaking?
like
okaasan ga "chanto ni benkyou shinasai yo!" to iimashita wa.
is it because the chanto ni part is topic?

>>12351190
Site's name? I think I saw it somewhere else sometime ago. Is it that paid one?

I took a class and actually did well in it, but after it was over without the structured environment i didn't really follow through with it.

>>12351434
Nihonshock

>>12351277
That's all it takes. I still appreciate'm though.

勉強はつまんない

>>12353612
I always get concerned about these short Japanese posts on 4chan. Am I dumb for not being able to read them, or are they dumb and can't make a correct sentence?

>>12353628
It's casual, if I'm not mistaken. It says "benkyou ha tsumannai".

>>12353704
... what purpose does typing it in romaji serves? I know how to read it, I just don't know what it means.

>>12353715
>>12353704
Well, I'm dumb.

http://beta.jisho.org/search/%E3%81%A4%E3%81%BE%E3%82%93%E3%81%AA%E3%81%84

>>12353715
>Am I dumb for not being able to read them
>not being able to read

>>12353739
Read means understand, doofus. Obviously I'd be the dumb one if I couldn't "read" hiragana characters and 勉強.

>>12353746
You should have used the word "understand" in the first place since actual reading Japanese is a well-known issue with the language.

It's not nice to call someone that tried to help you a doofus, doofus.

I forgot I'm not on /a/.

>>12353778
My bad. I've been engaged in a lot of "reading and understanding vs reading" debates as of late, it's affecting my terminology.

>>12351404
Use it this way, "Kono pen ha kakkoii desu", this pen is cool. You use 'ha' to describe the pen in some way.

"Kono pen ga suki", I like this pen. You express something personal in relation to the pen.

>>12353796
Please never use romaji again.

>>12353796
Also, don't help people when- wait, are you trolling? My bad. Carry on.

>>12353806
>>12353811
The dude used romaji, he might not be proficient. What's wrong about the sentences?

>>12353822
The explanations are too brief and are not even accurate. You don't use "は" to describe a pen, you use it to introduce a topic. I don't even want to comment on the が explanation. He used "です" with an い adjective which is not recommended, or even proper usually.

In conclusion, either he knows next to nothing and is teach people, or he is trolling, in which he cast he did an epic job.

>>12348880

Already considered two years ago. I entered Japanese language school to study Japanese along with other subjects with same syllabus as taught by high-school in Japan.

After the 2 years full time intensive course, I was able to speak Japanese on almost par with native speaker. After the university examination, I was accepted and currently I started my first year semesters at a national university in Japan.

How would ...ッ！ be translated? I'm not a part of this phonetic discussion. I just don't get it. Is it like a grunt? How does it sound?

started but stopped due to the time consumption it takes. i'm okay with reading subtitles. they tend to just blend and i hardly notice im reading them most of the time. as for literature i dont mind reading translations. i plan on learning it but its not a priority at the moment.

>>12355634
>as for literature i dont mind reading translations.
95% of Japanese media does not have translations. And will never have translations. The earlier you start, the sooner you can be finished- learning a language a lot of work spread of a lot of time, so the longer you wait the harder it'll be.

>>12338993
Man, this has happened to me in every hobby I've pursued. Maybe I'm just doomed to be a pathetic pleb

>>12348268
This thread has reinspired me

>>12348268
Yes, learning Nipponese is back on my to-do list.

>>12355923
>>12348268
This thread has uninspired me.

>>12356050
>>12355923
Let's be real hear, fellas. You don't need inspiration or motivation to learn Japanese. Those are crutches. It is very, very hard to be motivated for the several years you'll be learning.

What you need is a fucking backbone and at least 1 hour of spare time a day. If you don't have either of these, then carry on as a monolingual, I don't care. Just don't focus on what you want to do, what you're motivated to do; focus on what you need to do to learn Japanese.

>>12330851
Move to the country and whether you like it or not you'll pick up on the language.

Man, I'm so glad I started learning before I discovered 4chan.

What do you do when you're quite new to learning japanese and you're reading something like a manga ? Is it a good idea to find a translated version to make sure you understood it when reading, or do you just keep going and hope you were right ?

>>12359806
If you aren't sure if you're right, feel free to check the translated version to see what someone else thought. As a warning, a lot of translations aren't so hot. Yotsuba's chapter one had a really bad mistranslation from what I remember.

If you're struggling with most of the sentences, do more grammar before reading.

>>12359846
Huh, thanks for the warning, Yotsuba was one of the ones I started reading. For that I've been using that Yotsuba reading pack that has a list of vocabulary. I think past the first volume those aren't free though, are they worth buying/finding somewhere to download them from ?

>>12360111
They're worth pirating. I don't know how good their translation is, the bad one is the one on all the manga sharing sites. Pic related, incorrect translation.

>>12360131
Huh, it does seem like that's what she's saying though. What should it be ?

>>12360597
"If you kick your body, you'll move" or something to that tune. Mistranslating "reaction" as "kick" was an amateur mistake likely made from someone using a dictionary while translating instead of actually understanding the grammar.

Grammar. It feels like an insurmountable barrier, beyond basic wa/ga sentences.

>>12362242
Grammar seems better understood when not observed head-on. The more you try to dissect it, the stranger it gets. Comprehension of it sneaks in or works like magic.

Observing grammar when listening to spoken Japanese (after the lessons) should help.

I got to study it as my minor conveniently in university for about 1,5 years, but I ended up getting hating my other studies and eventually dropped out.
I can now understand and enjoy most of the seiyuu / owarai stuff I watch and listen, but many subjects are impossible to follow because I lack the vocabulary and reading is even worse because I was extremely lazy learning kanji.

mental illness set in hard. I can't concentrate on anything I used to like anymore. it's getting worse with time.

I can understand enough. my vocabulary isn't great. I was never in it for conversation skills because I don't like talking with people. Japanese people are just people like any others. people are a pain in the ass. I just like to read. I hoped to write moon as well as read, and I was pretty good at kanji back when my brain worked better.

I hope in the future I will be less insane so I can start learning again. I always enjoyed studying languages and learning new things before

I'm ok-ish with spoken Japanese and kana, but kanji haunts my nightmares. That's the main reason why I dropped Japanese. Not that I was learning it seriously at any point, it just kind of.. happened. Also, it's hard to find Japanese courses in my first language, while learning it from English courses is a bit.. risky, so I just thought "eh, I'll learn English first".
Yeah, I'm fine with it.

I quit because I found out I didn't really have an interest in the language

Doujinshi and games are fun, but I realized those were literally the only things I wanted. I wasn't interested in the people there, the society, the history, etc...

No offense to Japan or anything, it's hard to explain. Anyone else like me?

>>12362711
Most of /jp/, Japanese-literate or not, couldn't care less about Japan outside of otaku media.

I quit fairly early because I could never figure out how to approach the learning of a language without the structure of a class being taught by someone who knows how to teach. It's an insurmountable thing with few success stories coming from the people who try, and awkward methods that don't seem like good ideas.

This, combined with the fact that I have not enough life left to actually make any meaningful progress, means that it's simply impossible for me.

>>12351011
I haven't gotten to that part yet in Tae Kim but I got the gist of that word from watching/hearing a lot of shows, drama CD, etc.

>>12336506
>lol reading vns with a parser and grinding anki and you think you're going to get anywhere?
;_;

>>12362759
>I have not enough life left to actually make any meaningful progress
How old are you?

Grew out of my weeb phase, will probably stop all together soon
Waste of time

>>12362842
Same here. But then I though "Eh, I spent so much time learning the basics, it'd be a complete waste of time if I threw away all of the progress right now" and decided to continue. I'll probably never use the language, but whatever.

>>12363095
How? There's so much waiting for you to see.

>>12363117
Well, I'm just not that interested. Like, in anything. But if something really catches my eye then I'll probably learn all of the kanji in a week or something (and then forget it all a month later).

>>12363164
Learn 3,000 kanji in a week?

>>12363164
>Well, I'm just not that interested. Like, in anything.
Same here, I can't enjoy things anymore.

>>12363173
I'm pretty sure people have done better than that. Ask someone with a medical degree.

>>12363184
There is no one in the world, barring one with a mental disorder, that has learned 3,000 kanji in a week.

>>12363195
I'm seriously tempted to try. I'd probably fail hard but ugh, I do love a dare. Besides, isn't only 1000 kanji needed for everyday reading?
>>12363180
Well, some things are so overused that an interesting idea becomes boring.

>>12363215
I said 3,000 kanji because there are 3,000 kanji needed for everyday reading.

You won't just fail hard, you will fail MISERABLY. People take years to learn all the kanji. Months, if they focus exclusively on it. 428 kanji a day. Jesus. I need 20 kanji a day and quickly felt overwhelmed.

You say you've spent so much time on the basics, but if you don't know the terrors of Kanji, clearly you know next to nothing.

>>12363218
Yeah, I exagerrated and probably should've been more careful with my words. People do that all the time. I mean, do you take people literally all the time? That's it. I still know the basics and you can't convince me otherwise.

>>12363224
When people give no indication that they are being hyperbolic, yes I take them seriously. Anyone who even says "learn the kanji in a week" is either extremely ignorant or completely joking, which I didn't think you were.

If you know the basics you should be able to pass this test : http://www.jlpt.jp/e/samples/n5.html

It is literally a test for basic Japanese knowledge. If you get most of these questions wrong, then you don't know the basics. If you get most of them right (on the first try), you do know the very most basics.

>>12363228
I had 4 wrong answers.
1 (question 5, に instead of の)
2 (question 6, とった instead of で)
3 (question 7, さびしくありませんか instead of さびしくありません)
4 (last question, 1 (（あちら？） instead of 2 （アメリカ？）
Sorry for taking so long, I was trying to find a way how to screenshot my progress, but no luck.

>>12363337
In that case, you know some of the basics, but not all of the basics.

>>12363347
Well, that's better than nothing. I'm an "all talk" kind of person and was expecting to fail like 10 out of 14. Everything went better than I expected.

>>12363228
>http://www.jlpt.jp/e/samples/n5.html
ayy lmao I've passed N1 and got three of those wrong, mostly due to being half-asleep.

>>12363386
Try the N1 and see whatcha get.

>>12363389
Got all of them right. I did them about a year ago though and they haven't changed the questions at all so I remembered most of the answers without even having to read the passages/listen to the whole audio.

>>12363418
Nice.

I realized the only way I learn Japanese is by translating it. And when I translate I translate porn. And said porn I download and categorize, and it takes so long that I feel I missed new porn and download that etc.

In the end I get mostly porn, and the learning is just forever procrastinated. I am however at my limit now with having been so slow at sorting porn I only have 2012 porn. With 2013 and soon 2014 porn being too much missing, I may actually stop downloading and start translating!

Jaypee, does japanese people like it if there is a gaijin who speaks broken japanese?

>>12363679
Yes, but then they like it even better if THEY get to speak broken English to you.

>>12363228
I tried the n3. 7/14 that's a pass in most high schools.

>>12351011
>Without grammar, one would think this means "to eat"
why is this necesarily true? if someone knows the word taberu, why would they see tabesaseru and think it means taberu

>>12363786
I used that specific example because someone did that very thing.

>>12353746
>Read means understand
ha
haha
ha
whew gave me a good laugh there, anon

>>12363791
What, do you think orating sounds is equivalent to reading something?

I never give up but I never finish either

>>12363837
>wanikani
it's already over

>>12363859
It's great if you aren't in a hurry.

I just want to learn to speak it, I have dyslexia or something so there's no way I can learn the runes + don't want to.

>>12363889
Or have money to waste. Why did you pay for beta Anki?

>>12330851
>How many of you started learning Japanese but gave up?

I.

Started as far back as late 07/early 08. Always would start and give up after a while.

Gave up for good a year ago.

>Why did you give up?
1) When I had the time to actually learn (starting in 2007) I didn't feel very motivated because I had a metric fuck ton of english translated anime/manga/games I had yet to get through

2) I am turning 24 in a few weeks and my priorities in life have greatly shifted in the last 2 years. Right now I am trying to focus on getting a career and eventually going back to college. Will not have the time or energy to learn a third language ( I am already bilingual) while I am working and going to college in the near future.

> Are you comfortable enjoying Japanese media despite not learning the language?
Absolutely. Eventually I realized that 99% of what I am interested in already gets translated. If I were into VNs/LNs it would be a different story but VNs and LNs are shit.

I am no longer a weeaboo. I still watch anime and read manga but nowhere near as much as before, and I barely even touch video games anymore so.

No longer have a reason to learn it.

>>12363907
I'm gonna say, if 99% of what you are interested in gets translated, you either have extremely generic taste or you just don't know what's out there.

>>12363914
I have extremely generic taste. Most of what I reach/watch is action/fantasy/sci-fi. Jap "comedy"/romcoms/drama do not interest me in the slightest

>>12363904
I used Anki for a while. I like that this is structured for me since I'm lazy. No need to do anything but log in then reps. $5/mo is worth the structure to me.

>>12363913
The main reason to learn Japanese isn't even for manga, anime, or video games. It's all in the fine literature. See >>12363117
>>12363922
Yeah, even so. There are lots of action, fantasy, and scifi stuff are not being brought over. You just don't know about it because you don't know enough Japanese to hear about them.

For consideration, I meant generic as in SAO/Madoka, not genres.

Japanese is an illogical pile of shit.

>>12333680
>>12333612

I think that actually writing/talking to people would be very helpful for you.

>>12363968
You're lucky it's actually very logical. Try learning Russian or Arabic, you'll kill yourself.

>>12364030
i literally don't understand how people can rad arabic. it is literally squiggles.

>>12350998
i agree anon. i am n3/n3 ish level and i skim full length books all the time. while my understanding is not perfect, i do grasp the gist of the text. obviously this vague understanding is subpar according to >>12350339 BUT is it not at least a step towards deeper understanding?

>>12364230
Quoth a girl noticing me reading Japanese manga: "I don't see how you can read that, it's all squiggles".

>>12364254
moon squiggles are distinct shapes at least

>>12364586
... So are Arabic letters dude.

>>12330851
>Are you comfortable enjoying Japanese media despite not learning the language?


Yep.

My mom loved some European director that made freaky movies in Finnish or something. No desire to learn the language. You see, OP, some of us can actually read subtitles.

Learning Japanese was a money pit for me. Hell, it continues to be. If I had spent a fraction of the time and money on Spanish, I'd be much better off.

>>12364254

shit you want squiggles try Arabic or Farsi. . . .

بئسمئللاه

>>12364661
>Learning Japanese was a money pit for me. Hell, it continues to be.
... How so? I'm pretty far in Japanese language studies and it hasn't cost a dime.

>>12364675

Good for you.

Four college-level courses at $1,000 each.
One AJATT course I took the bait for at I don't even want to say.

A few bookshelves full of imports, manga at at least $20 each, non-manga books going upwards from there.

All over the course of the last five years.

But you, you WISE PERSON haven't spent a dime so you are just superior in all ways.

>>12364748
Woah, no need for hostility. I was not being confrontational. I was literally just asking how you went about losing money on this.

>>12364748
Why are you being condescending? You're the one who made the mistake of spending money when there are free better alternatives.

>>12364661
you're right about spanish anon but you wouldn't have to spend a dime. just try to woo the latin women at a salsa club

>>12364748
>manga at at least $20 each
Are you only getting ero manga or something? Do you live in a country with ridiculous import taxes?

Why the fuck do people spend money on learning foreign languages? Are they looking for a shortcut or something?

>>12364845
They might be old-fashioned and think money and teachers are the proper way to get learning done.

>>12330851
Not to sound retarded, but I learn better having a personal teacher in front of me then learning on my own. I would be so afraid I'm doing it wrong or understanding it wrong and would want someone to practice Japanese with all of the time. So even if I could have a friend or partner learning with me it would probably help out a lot.

>>12330851
Learning is an ongoing process. You learn everyday.

I think my otaku phase peaked about 10 or 15 years ago, and I even bought some teach-yourself books & CDs, by my tween mind didn't have the discipline to follow through.

I started up again these last few months and this time it's serious. I'm still working with books & CDs from home, but I'm doing some everyday on top of learning other things in school.

There is a Japanese language school in my city, it was originally meant for Japanese expats and their kids to maintain their language if not learn it from scratch if they're 2nd-3rd, etc generation but they also accept anyone who wants to learn.

>>12364845
It's an investment. You can torrent all the mp3s in the world and o all the free online exercises there are, nothing beats the structured environment of a classroom and the help of a knowledgeable teacher. You're then more likely to find a job in whatever language you become fluent in.

Also it's much easier to just quit something you're doing for free than to quit something you've already put your money into.

>>12365069
If you don't have the motivation to learn on your own it's pretty likely you won't have the motivation to learn in a class either. You're still going to have to do a lot of studying outside of class time in order to keep up.

>>12365069
>nothing beats the structured environment of a classroom
this is kind of a crapshoot in that some classrooms are just shitty, like those that move at a sloth pace, or have an knowledgeable teach, while self-teaching has no such uncontrollable qualities.

>>12365069
and do babies learn languages in a structured environment of a classroom? no they learn by being exposed

>>12365382
I don't think I'm a baby. A baby's brain isn't even a quarter of the way to being fully developed, what "works" for them won't work for everyone.

What I mean to say is, babies don't have to study grammar, but you pretty much have to.

>>12363968
>>12364030
Try Polish. Seriously.
>>12365069
>Also it's much easier to just quit something you're doing for free than to quit something you've already put your money into.
Nope, not at all. If you're not into something anymore then you're going to quit anyway. So far, I quit three English courses, Spanish and French (my personal record, I only endured one hour).

Too hard, it takes too much effort.

The kanji just don't stick, I can practice and practice but I never remember them all.

Kana on the other hand was easy as shit, I learned all the kana in like two weeks.

>>12365466
Congratulations on learning the alphabet.

>>12365069
>It's an investment.
Time and passion are the true investments.
>nothing beats the structured environment of a classroom
That's if you lack structure or the ability to make and follow your own regimen. Also: Lacking that "structured environment" makes you free to go on tangents in relation to your studies, presenting a broader learning experience.
>and the help of a knowledgeable teacher.
Sure it's nice to have a knowledgeable teacher, but that's if you're fortunate enough to get a good and likeable one.
The internet (its ability to pull up a wide variety of info, opinions and options) makes paying for a teacher less necessary (though I'm aware there's nothing like interacting with another person).

I'm a little surprised that people stop at kanji because it's frustrating. Honestly, I think the most rewarding part of studying is kanji. It's sort of meditative and very interesting.

>>12367063
Of the three Japanese language facets (grammar, vocabulary, kanji), kanji is by far the easiest, so I don't know what they're talking about either.

>>12367063
tbh i agree
and maybe this is juvenile but it's kind of fun to have a running count of how many you know
i'm only at around 400-500 but it's certainly motivating to have some kind of count going.

>inb4 but anon there are x,000 kanji!
idc you cant bring me down

>>12368039
but anon, there are 3,000 kanji in constant use! this is meant as a "you're 1/6 of the way" kind of motivation

of course, the real hard part is the grammar

>>12368186
my point exactly. grinding kanji all day is nothing if you can't put it all together to a functional grammatical sentence

I had to put Japanese on hold a couple years ago when I started getting serious about Chinese. Now I'm horribly rusty.
After I take HSK 5 in a couple months I'll review N3 and study for N2.