/jp/ - Otaku Culture

I like the direction the touhou games have taken, and touhou games were never supposed to be awfully difficult since they are babys first shump.

If you need additional challenge turn up the difficulty.

And I have no idea why you find the new characters inmemorable, I like almost all of them.

>everyone was ultra hype for touhou, even /jp/. The livestreams for DS and Fairy Wars, a lot of threads in the front page that would max out in a couple of minutes. What happened?

All of /jp/ killem themself or moved on.
Also, since when is touhou becoming less popular a bad thing?

we had this discussion several times and came to the conclusion: go back and play with your kancolles in your general thread

I stopped following the Touhou games after playing Ten Desires demo. I just didn't like the music and difficulty.

>>12129495
Probably the best Touhou game so far just came out, and it features one of the best Touhous ever. Anyone complaining like you do is either insincere or lacks taste.

Also, old /jp/ is dead and pretty much everyone who posted here back in 2009-10 left. Don't expect those times to ever come back.

>>12129540
I don't think there was a single touhou OST that I liked the moment I heard it.
I would always think that they are meh, but after a few more times of hearing them I'd really start to love them

I think DDC is the hardest since it's the only one I can't manage to 1cc, but then again I'm a bad player that hasn't beaten any extra except for Ran's.

>>12129495
>What happened?
Zun got married. That's what happened.
Also, Ten Desires had a god-tier soundtrack, along with UFO and Shuusou Gyoku.

>>12129495
>Touhou 13 was going to doom the franchise because let's be honest, a lot of the characters in recent games are so inmemorable you forget they actually exist. Kyoko, Benben, Raiko, Futo, etc.
First, Futo is among the most popular of the TD cast.
Second, you're implying every game doesn't have a forgettable little shit.
6 and 7's weak casts only have as much presence as they do right now because there is nearly a decade of time to allow material to pile up. Think about that.
And even so, who the fuck cares about the Prismrivers? There was some resurgence of popularity when ZUN tried to shoehorn in the not-primrivers like Benben, but that was mostly out of "BUT WE ALREADY HAVE ONE OF THOSE."
8: Nobody gives two fucks about Wriggle unless they want her for shota fantasies.
9: Wow whoa a whole cast of rehashes, at least we got Komachi out of it.
10: You know you're at a low point when you're popular BECAUSE you're unpopular, sorry Shizuha. Strangely 10 has the most well-received cast on launch.
11: Kisume gets fuck all except "hey look i'm here too with Yamame, you guys like Yamame right?"
12: Oh boy now THIS cast is probably the most forgettable. Its been 5 years now and still nobody gives and shits about Ichirin, Minamitsu, Shou, Nazrin (except for one /jp/ autist). Suprisingly Kogasa got popular enough to get shoved into a new game. Even after Ichirin's redesign and slight popularity boost, everybody went back to not caring.
13: So we got Kyouko. Poor Kyouko. Its also amusing how Yoshika is more popular than her master Seiga. The rest tie in just fine, strangely Tojiko even has a bit of a fanbase. Must be assblasted Mima fans latching onto any ghost they can.
14: The first 3 bosses are wildly popular, especially the mermaid. The not-prismrivers? Not so much. Shinmyoumaru is even more popular than Miko, and Seija somehow even got her own game.

So please, tell me more about how a new game doesn't have the same fanbase as a game 10+ years old.

Is this the secondary containment thread?

>>12129672
Every non-stg thread is a secondary containment thread.

>>12129495
>I think ZUN was right, Touhou 13 was going to doom the franchise

When did he say that, again?

More "The old days were better" garbage. Go away, OP.

The recent touhou games and music were great, and if fans are less "hyped" over touhou now it is probably for the best.

Instead of making more Touhous, why not make new adventures with the old characters?

It's entirely his fault (As he is the games' writer) that we're just having new and less memorable 2hus dumped upon us.

What ever happened to Eientei? Palace of the Earth Spirits? Perfectly good characters that are pretty much exclusive to Doujin now.

>>12129495
ZUN should port the games to console. remaster them (give them a polish) to look new like DDC.yeah right, i was just kidding

>>12131610
I'd like remasted versions of PC-98 games, even if they wouldn't be canon.
Like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcL08PXkKIo

>>12129550
There is still a handful of old /jp/ers left because we still always complain about it

>>12131674
Well, what else are we supposed to do?

>>12131565
>average touhou fan

>>12129495

I'll just copy-paste what I said on /v/ regarding the franchise. This is just my opinion, though.

Boss and Ex-Boss are getting weaker each game.

First we have death incarnate and causality manipulator, eternal moon princess and super-ancient co-founder of advanced moon civilization, omnipotent judge of afterlife and ancient goddesses.
Now we only have saints, tricksters and tsukkumogami as final bosses.

Having hax character as final boss gives more intense feeling while playing for me, and it's not like powerlevel really important in Touhouverse.
I feel shit's just get real whenever I fought ghost princess who can manipulate death, even if she didn't use said power. It's just different than meeting a magic saint or genderbent emperor.

I try to look at the other aspect such as backstory, but nah, Yuyuko and Eirin still have the best backstory so far.
Though, I like Byakuren and Miko's.

I think ZUN's peak was at 8 and still consistent up until 10. From onwards it seems ZUN started to have to come up with ideas.

To summarize I always speculates that ZUN intended to make 2hu games with hax bosses, but it strayed since TH10 and it seems to me that now ZUN just want to make games with nice music and expand the world building. That's why we got plenty of manga now.

>>12129495
>They aren't as charismatic or memorable are most old characters.
No fucking shit, I would never have guessed that characters that were created last year would be less memorable than characters form the last decade. That's unthinkable.
Leave the reclining 2hu alone, she did nothing to you. All she wants is to relax and you can't stop talking about how shitty she is.

>>12131826
I don't know man, fighting the infamous super natural creature Nue and a very powerful and experienced Tanuki who used to live in the outside world did feel pretty "hax" and impressive to me.
Even Raikos backstory, even though she's just a tsukkumogami, felt sort of cool when she explained that she obtained some mystical power that allowed her to stay alive.

Maybe ZUN gives Ex bosses more power nowadays by relating them to well known japanese folkslore rather than making up characters with raw power abilities, and since we are not japanese we can don't find them as impressive as ZUN does.

>>12131826
>what I said on /v/
>what I said on /v/
>what I said on /v/
>what I said on /v/
>what I said on /v/
I've noticed most of touhou posters on /jp/ are shitty, but I didn't think it was THAT bad.

>>12131854
Well, I only go to /v/ for Soku thread.

I gave up Touhou a year ago even though I had only been following half-heartedly since Ten Desires, which was a combination of my not being interested in Japanese history and /jp/ becoming terrible.

I even only come here out of habit anymore.

>>12131826
>I'll just copy-paste what I said on /v/

...well, that explains that broken grammar. I decided to be nice and read it anyway, but I'm sorry, half of it is incomprehensible.

Anyways, ZUN is primarily a musician. He originally made Touhou because he needed games for the video game music he wrote. I thought everyone knew that already.

>>12131927
I wish someone would correct me whenever I type with poor grammar, though it varies from how sleepy I am.

It always hurts if someone pointed that out.

I was all over every game until TD. I don't hate it, but I honestly lost interest.

The Photography games were probably my favorite in the series, but 14.3 doesn't excite me at all.

>>12129495
>2hu is reclining

>>12132125

>>12129495
You're right. Touhou died. And it will probably stay that way.

Touhou's been dead for what, 20-30 years already?

>>12131594
>Instead of making more Touhous, why not make new adventures with the old characters?
Because Gensokyo isn't limited to only the few characters already shown? People complain that he uses too many of the old characters as background characters, and that's a way more valid complaint than "he's making too many". The series is mostly about worldbuilding, not talking about each character in great detail. The manga are more focused on taking existing settings and expanding on them.

>What ever happened to Eientei?
Holy shit dude, Eientei was the main focus of more works and more detailed works than any other. If you're going to pick a setting pick something that isn't actually well fleshed-out.

>Palace of the Earth Spirits
The underground is one of the main focuses of WaHH, even if it isn't very explicit about it. But it makes sense that it isn't often talked about if only because there's a canonical separation between Gensokyo and the underground.

>>12129495
>What happened?
Two things: You got bored of it, and it got stale.

It got stale in the fact that ZUN just churns the games out of obligation now. This has been the case since TD or arguably after UFO. He's run out of ideas to make the games memorable lately. It's difficult to find any reason or any interesting aspect in playing the newer games for more than just a Lunatic clear and then never touching them again.

You finding the characters or plot unmemorable is more likely due to you just getting bored of it. It tends to happen after you've been exposed to the same thing for years. Others that are just getting into Touhou will be excited for it and think it's the best thing ever. Fortunately, there aren't many of those people here.

What happened is that ZUN got better at drawing and it's not a loli paradise anymore.

>>12131826
Regarding Miko: I don't know what you're on about. She's basically the Unicorn in human form, a walking, breathing Psycoframe with permanent Psycho-field if you will. Or the physical manifestation of a spirit bomb if you prefer that. And that's besides her lich-level immortality and sainthood. For the most part, she can take on the older bosses no problem.

>>12133260
>there's a canonical separation between Gensokyo and the underground.

Mr. ZUN, tear down this wall.

>>12133359
>Fortunately, there aren't many of those people here.

Yeah, we wouldn't want to interact with those immature unsophisticated people who still know how to have fun.

>>12129495
Tbh you're right about the "unmemorable characters" part. The last three games had characters with the lamest powers ever. What the fuck happened to interesting, hax characters like Yuyuko, Yukari, Flan, Kaguya, etc? Nowadays we get bland shit like 'the power to listen to ten people at once', 'power make anything follow a rhythm' and I don't even know what that tiny new 2hu's exact power is.
ZUN used to create godly characters that can even rival Type-Moon in terms of sheer hax, what happened?

>>12133515
Get your /m/ shit outta here m8. 2hus can wtfpwn gundem shit any day

>>12133841
Maybe ZUN realized that ambigious "hax" abilities that are never seen in action only brings stupid powerlevel discussions, and nobody who graduated high school likes these.

>>12133882
Why would ZUN care about "powerlevel discussion"? Isn't this shit only a thing in the west?

>>12133917
Taking touhou that seriously is a thing of the West.

A guy made a doujin game he like, you buy it or not, that's it.

>a lot of the characters in recent games are so inmemorable you forget they actually exist

Mystia Lorelei is one of the characters I hardly care for. The UFO cast was pretty meh.

>Kyoko, Benben, Raiko, Futo, etc. They aren't as charismatic or memorable are most old characters

I like Kyoko, actually.

>The livestreams for DS and Fairy Wars, a lot of threads in the front page that would max out in a couple of minutes. What happened?

The people finished their education and got a job. /jp/ of 2014 has a different "generation" than that of 2009.

What never stops is the whining that Touhou will die very soon. We have that since the board started. It's basically the identity of /jp/.

>>12133841
ZUN just want to make music and little girls now.

Touhou is not in a critical state, because the series does not depend on popularity and/or sales to continue. ZUN will keep making the games if he wants to, and he'll stop making the games if he wants to stop. Quite frankly, I don't give a fuck if you think the quality of the games is declining. I personally believe DDC is one of the best Touhou games in a long time, and as long as ZUN is satisfying someone (himself included, of course), the Touhou series is doing just fine.

>>12133841
Miko is a wizard-saint-lich-king who reads minds, eats souls, shoots swords made out of lasers made out of legal documents, has a cape that breathes fire, and is charismatic as fuck.

>>12134033
But does that even compare to Yukari motherfucking Yakumo? Hell, that doesn't even come close to Eirin who sealed EARTH in a fucking pot.

>>12134036
Ah I see.
I think you are blowing Yukaris and Eirins abilities way out of proportion.

They are both very powerful, but we have no hint that they come even close to the omnipotence fanon likes to attribute to them.

>>12134036
Yukari herself says that no matter how powerful you are there's always someone stronger, so the only REAL strength is cunning.

In which case she and Eirin are still near the top, but Mamizou is rapidly gaining on them and Kanako is going the slow-and-steady route.

>>12134041
>They are both very powerful, but we have no hint that they come even close to the omnipotence fanon likes to attribute to them.
It's because people take her profile in PMiSS literally, ignoring the multiple places where Yukari is established to have written that profile herself and exaggerated her abilities. As well as every time Yukari's actually used her powers in canon.

I think people who want omnipotent characters should just go to church instead of looking for them in an indie shmup.

>>12133841

Are there any hax powers left to even give to any new characters? It seems like they're all used up at this point

>>12134246
He should make King Crimson the last boss in the next game

>>12129503
>All of /jp/ killem themself or moved on.
Some of us haven't killed ourselves yet!

Good riddance.

>>12134327
It's not like Kancolle is going to be any better. Or whatever comes after Kancolle.

>>12134333
At least they will be fresher than smellly old 2hags.

>>12134246
Plenty, you just need to be creative enough. Seems that ZUN is lacking in this department as of late

There is no difference in character strength gameplay wise, only patterns one needs to follow to win. Afterall the series for the most part relied on the Spellcard system, even the older games used a very crude version of it Save HRtP.

It's only easier because the system has been changed; technology has become more advanced and new programs are available now for game making which streamlines the programming process, reducing countless equations and numbers which could take hours to code into one simplistic equation and set of numbers.

This scenario is similar to how older games were harder because of limited capabilities of the system it was on and now that modern games are easier.

Or maybe that the older generations of gamers find it easier because they can read patterns and paradigms much more efficiently due to experience.

>>12134338
Oh yes, of course, we must all buy into the latest, newest, shiniest bauble that is being dangled in front of our faces.

>>12134345
The thing is he also need to find appropriate folklore creature for any hax power, unless he'll just add another goddess, youkai sage or complete OC as last boss, which seems unlikely.

>>12134366
Or he could just bring back older characters as bosses and only make the OC as later stages,Final Boss and EX Boss.

Who is to say that characters from previous games may or may not have an interest in the series of events going on during other incidents?

>>12134377
Well, I'm only talking about last boss and probably Ex-boss.

Older characters always has a chance to appear as stage 1 boss or mid-boss.

>>12134377
To sum up, Touhou is getting stale and the solution is to reuse old characters.

Makes perfect sense.

>>12131826
People know about Touhou on /v/?

Nobody would even remember Flan today if it wasn't for the McDonald's video

>>12134366
He can simply introduce more Kishin, oni or even primordial gods and goddesses. There's really no reason for him to be churning out them fucking tsukumogami all the time. He's really running out of creativity

>>12134448
>Implying he's not churning out tsukumogami just so that Mamizou can recruit them all and have an unstoppable tsukumogami army.

>>12134448
Maybe it depends on what story ZUN wants to make.
We barely know about his priorities in making 2hu games.

I think this thread is more a result of the state of /jp/ rather than the state of Touhou.

Anyway, people have been saying the same things since forever. Touhou is dead, the new games suck etc. No one cares. People who like the games will play them, people who doesn't won't. That's all there is to it.

>>12134427
I don't know if they still do them, but they used to have soku threads every night for a while.

>>12134448
>all the time

He made one game with tsukumogami. One fucking game. One. And they were just three side characters.

>>12134772
>What is Kogasa
>What is Kokoro

I don't think characters without a hax like ability are a bad thing. Also the powers are so vague that it ends up to the imagination anyway. We have stuff like "ability to control density" which would mean that suika could create a black hole and destroy the earth. I don't think it's a good thing to try to top stuff like that each new game.
What I really miss on the other hand are silly hats. It might be my imagination but the last two main games didn't had much in the way of hats. It's what is the essence of characterdesign in touhou that no matter who draws a character they can be recognized by the hat and certain accessoires.

Well, the man behind the franchise has been coming up with ideas for the game, characters and music for nearly.... 20 years?. There is a limit to the good ideas he can come up with. And the new changes in his life may have hindered his creativity and the amount of time he can dedicate to Touhou.

And I don't want to think that ZUN is keeping Touhou alive only because the benefits it brings to himself.

Or, as Anons have said above, maybe is it us.

>>12134959
I agree. Maybe is it us.

>>12134051
I like when people act like Yukari could somehow destroy the universe with a simple thought even though she has trouble just getting herself to the moon in SSIB and has to leave Yuyuko there for quite a while since she's too shitty to just warp her back.

>>12135014
You do realize that the moon hosts an ancient advanced civilization that's pretty serious about protecting themselves from invaders from the outside? It's not "Yukari can't warp to the moon", it's "Yukari is capable of breaking through security measures that were likely set up by primordial gods".

>>12135045
Or it's the high concentration of mary sues and shit tier characters on the moon that interfere with Yukari's abilties.

>>12135045
You do realise that Yukari needed multiple gap-trips to scale a mountain?

>>12131826
Do you really want Touhou power tiers to be neverending? Next everyone will be able to destroy Gensokyo on a whim. Touhou benefits from having interesting characters more than it benefits from having strong ones. Miko's backstory is plenty interesting and makes up for her lack of immediate appeal, and Sukuna is a spectacular Touhou.

Also Remilia is hugely small time.

>>12129670
Please don't use wriggle for shota fantasies. Wriggle is a girl.

>>12135045
>It's not "Yukari can't warp to the moon"
The whole sage's trap thing has nothing to do with the fact that she can only get to and from the moon during the full moon.

>>12129495
I'm still waiting for touhou to be good again, but all I get is disappointment,

I'm still anticipating original indie games that don't have Touhou characters.

>>12135588

when the last 3 touhou games came out, me and my friends thought that they were espectacular.
DDC was such a fresh game, and i sincerely think that ISC is the funniest, most enjoyable touhou game to date.
When i'm in more carefree touhou sites or small communities y feel that touhou is as good as ever, new fans keep coming and some old ones embrace them and teach them how fantastic the fandom is and was. But then i come here, or other elitist places like Mok and such, and old player begin to post about how "Touhou is dead", and how the new games are shit. A big bummer since most people i know irl thinks otherwise.
And is sad, because when new people get into the fandom, they might read all this BS,
and they'll think that touhou is actually dead and leave, and that is what actually happening.
Touhou is not dead, u guys are killing it.

>>12135628
>and they'll think that touhou is actually dead and leave, and that is what actually happening.

I never thought about it that way, I don't think that touhou is dead, but now I might say otherwise just to keep people away

>>12135628
Touhou's popularity peeked quite some time ago in the west and its been going down ever since.
http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=touhou

No series is immune to sucketry. Ten Desires left a lot to be desired, and the fandom shrinked as a result of it. ZUN making a bad game is no different from Nintendo creating another uninspired Zelda.

>>12135628
>other elitist places like Mok
I think you mean MotK, but if you're talking about people who tend to shitpost saying that all the new games suck, then we don't condone that over there either. Some people might be pretty elitist about the games, sure, but you'll have that in any community.

>>12135708
hey man skyward sword was fucking cool alright

>>12135708

The graph you posted directly contradicts your statement. August 2013 is not "quite some time ago" and it's going up now, so it hasn't been going down ever since.

And if ZUN ever caves in for digital distribution models and/or localization, the peak is still yet to come.

>>12129495

>What happened?

The players left /jp/ for /v/. For over a month now they had threads every night about the game and they all auto-sage within hours, while ours last days due to inactivity.

>>12135725
You should read more than just the last few sentences of the OP, /v/-kun.

>>12135725
no HM?

>>12135736

Last one I did that a lot of people were talking about ISP and how far they have gotten into it. Unlike /jp/.

>>12135739
The lack of Shinkiroll means its dedicated player base is a small fraction of that of Soku's.

>>12135742
I've seen those threads, and what you guys do can't be properly called "talking".

Say what you will about /jp/ threads, they're benefiting greatly from the lack of everything that went to... or should I say stayed on /v/.

>>12135887

Tell that to OP then because "Why is Touhou declining" is a common topic here nowadays, which isn't actually happening since it's not Touhou that is declining, it's /jp/.

>>12135899
I already did like 80 posts ago.

"tfw no milk girlfriend" is also a common topic nowadays, and then you report it and it isn't. In trying to argue this seriously, OP is actually pretty unique.

>>12135887
That's a little rude. What sort of deep and engaging discussion do we get up to here that doesn't happen there?

>>12135911
Take your own post. By stringing two coherent sentences together, you've already surpassed most of /v/.

No, that was not a hyperbole.

>>12135929
The Touhou threads are populated by /jp/ expats though. They're mostly well-spoken.

http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=%E6%9D%B1%E6%96%B9&geo=JP

>>12135933
I don't like to talk out of my ass, so I actually checked the latest /v/ thread before posting that, and I assure you my statement is 100% accurate. If that's "well-spoken" by /v/ standards, I don't wish to see the rest of it.

I've also skimmed through the thread trying to find something, anything at all about ISC, and there was that one single sentence. So much for >>12135742.

>>12135933
I used to actually discuss stuff in the /v/ threads, but "being a lorefag" and waifu discussion are highly discouraged since that is supposely /jp/ territory.
These people are deadly afraid of being banished to /jp/ or/vg/ so they try to stay as videogame related as possible.

Not a big loss though, there is a good bunch of people taking shit like black Tewi serious, and the threads have mostly involved into ip posting and circlejerking. They even have janitor keeping an eye on their threads everyday who delete "shitposts" such as "go to /jp"

Well, guess I'll stay on /jp/ after all now that it is browseable again

>>12136393
Lore discussion started to get tolerated there and actually waifufags have surfaced on these thread lately, just more subtle.

>>12136440
Maybe we should mentally prepare for having these people here once they are banished from /v/.

>>12136443
Considering they spend a large portion of the thread playing the game, it won't happen for a while. (they try really hard to weasel out of it every time some one mentions it.)

>>12129495
Fuck you, I like Futo and Kyouko.

>>12134427
>>12134569
They have had at least one thread per night each day since January.

>>12136440
>>12136443
>>12136543
They have their own cycle with lore talking being less or more prominent.

>>12131665

Oh shit. I should go download these. I've been looking for a kick in the ass to play the pc98 games

They are just remastered, right? No real gameplay or story changes? Are they translated yet?

>>12131665
Shiiit where can I get these?

>>12138808
For what it's worth, the Alice fight looks more or less how it did in the original.

Has anyone found Mima in the new game yet?

At any rate, Th11 was the best.

>>12135708
>Ten Desires left a lot to be desired


anyway, I think TD dropped the ball when it comes to prettiness of the patterns. UFO's patterns were great, ESPECIALLY Byakuren's. In TD there's literally only one nice looking pattern, Miko's second-to-last spell.

>>12141133
What I really liked about TD were the midfight speechbubbles and the really nice transsition from dialogue into fight at the extra midboss fight.

It just felt like something awesome that made me go: "touhou has finally arrived in modern times".

It's too bad ZUN removed that stuff in DDC

>>12131674

Been here since 2010. And yeah, I must support what OP says: There is no magic on touhou anymore. Since the TD fiasco almot everything that has come out has been mediocre or nearly good at best. Even my faith on Tasogare Frontier got destroyed after the complete shit fighter tha HM is.

The good thing is that after TD I started seriously playing other STGs, discovered Cave and Raizing and nowadays I think the best thing that can happen to touhou now is that ZUN sells the rights to Cave or at least make a colaboration with then.

>>12141160
2010 is not old, anon-kun.

>>12141153
>What I really liked about TD were the midfight speechbubbles

Yeah, I also like that.
I think DDC would be more fun if Seija mocking the player throughout the entire fight

14.3 was a real breath of fresh air for me, and has actually gotten me back into the series; granted I was also a really big fan of the photography games, so that's not going to hold true for a lot of players. I suspect the series may be wrapping up because of Zun getting married and settling down. Luckily, he seems to have his shit back together after releasing the worst flagship and fighter (13 and 13.5) back to back. I expect great things out of 15, whether or not it ends up being the final flagship.

>>12141929
>I suspect the series may be wrapping up because of Zun getting married and settling down.

Yeah, because settling down involves giving up your best available source of income.

If you really believe ZUN's marriage and incoming parenthood will have any effect on his handing of the series, you should be preparing for the Steam release instead.

>>12135739
Everyone hates it.

>>12141964
What's wrong with HM? I don't play any of the fighting games.

>>12141975
Clunkier, less balanced, and worse netplay than 12.3.

Touhou has been dead to me every since I started playing Kancolle 1 year ago.

>>12142039
Good for you. Now go back to your containment thread.

>>12142033
Also retarded system requirements for a game of this level. Even Touhou Labyrinth 2 runs better.

>>12142077
Touhou always has stupid system requirement.

Even EoSD will run slowly if your computer is not above average

>>12142677
My 10 years old crapomatic PC could play it along with most other recent Touhou games. You are talking out of your ass or you are so damn poor you can only afford 3rd world country surplus crap.