/jp/ - Otaku Culture

Moot is a kike.
pity reply

If you enjoy ``real emotional conflicts of teenagers'' then you are not an otaku.

>>12083799
I don't think you know what otaku are.
>``
Faggot.

>>12083804
Otaku is obsessing over fictional things.

>>12083812
Im a teenage emotion otaku.
Ask me anything.

Where can I get a PhD in NEET life?

>>12083831
His degree is in Culture and Representation, not ``Neet Life''.

If you are interested in the program, here is a link to the program.
http://repre.c.u-tokyo.ac.jp/

>>12083857
same shit

>>12083857
I thought this was the useless degrees thread.

>>12083857
You can get a degree just by being evafag?
Do you need to write thesis on how deep eva is?

>>12083857
We call that here "gender studies"

>>12083878
or automatic unemployment

>>12083784
You're throwing pearls before swine. This would be great topic to discuss "real otaku culture" but no one seems interested in anything but witty remarks. As expected of /jp/, always taking it easy.

>>12083954
Please don't marginalize /jp/s epicurean lifestyle.

>>12083954
What did you expect from these worthless imbeciles who are too stupid to even learn hiragana?

>>12083962
You're not on /a/ right now

Beat EVA? I was attracted to EVA originally because of the fights and gorgeous music, but it all goes to hell when the director when into the inner depths of the caverns of Pretentia.

A relateable character, and equally, if not better fights and music would be more than enough to "overthrow" EVA. Simple as that.

I don't understand. Is h speaking on behalf of everyone or is he voicing an opinion and using his studies in culture to base it as fact. Personally I would only expect as much from an EVA fan.

>>12083965
You might as well be, with all of this moot and eva worship.

>>12083980
I hope you're kidding. /jp/ rarely ever talks about eva and hates moot.

>>12083965

>>12083985
I meant in this thread idiot.

>>12083972
I'm not exactly sure what they were even trying to accomplish with the show. I think EVA stands on its own ground without having to resort to a lot of metaphysical and philosophical wackiness.

I wanted a show about giant monsters and robots not a lesson in theopsychism.

This man is correct. I agree with him. More creative shows like eva and less yuruyuri, Japan. Although I don't mind some "moe" stuff, it's already starting to tread the same ground over and over.
>>12083972
I could see people calling Seriel Experiments Lain a tad pretentious, but Evangelion wasn't. The fact of the matter is, you can fully enjoy eva without understanding a lot of the subtext or alternate views but SEL you can't without constantly trying to decipher it. I enjoy both series anyways, but calling stuff pretentious is kind of a weak argument. Although I agree that it wouldn't be hard to start having shows that at least get close to eva again with just having a more serious/realistic look at characters.

>>12083985
Does most of /jp/ like EVA? I know I sure as hell don't.

>>12084014
what /do/ you like?

>>12083972
Pardon my /a/, but in a perfect world, its Hiroki Azumas are now wondering why, in the ten years since it came out, nothing managed to surpass Haibane Renmei.

Unfortunately, we're not living in a perfect world, and our world's zeitgeist has been captured by a monster-of-the-week mecha series with a slightly better characterization than other monster-of-the-week mecha series.

At least it's also a world where Touhou came and freed the creative crowd from the need to even pay attention to anime, so it's not all bad.

Janny murdered asukaposter just like he did his cat!

>>12084014

/jp/ doesn't have much of a reason not to like EVA except to be contrarians.

otherwise eva was responsible for the second wave of otaku in japan back in the mid to late 90s, and without it I doubt this board would be called "otaku culture" right now.

>>12084014
What's not to like?

>>12083972
It can't be beat because it was the original. Now things have to evolve. Kind of like the story, dat metafiction.

Twenty years isn't too long in media and this quote is out of date now. Haruhi changed everything again.

>>12084014
I don't like it nor hate it.
It was entertaining when I was a teen. I don't really think anything of it anymore.

I hate /a/ though and I kind of associate eva with /a/.

>>12084036
I don't get why you would associate eva with /a/, last time i checked (probably about 6 months ago) they seemed just as split about it as /jp/ seems to be. /a/ is all about attack on titan and watamote and whatever other stuff is trending on crunchyroll from what I can tell.

>>12083972

>relateable

ha ha. learn some empathy you pathetic piece of shit. that's the absolute worst "criticism" you can apply to something.

>>12084054
Probably because eva is an anime, and lots of people like it, which probably means alot of people on /a/ like it.

Pretty much the only thing I got out of eva was Rei and Asuka, and fans of both seem like they'd belong in /a/.

Why do the new Eva movies suck? Is something with current anime culture?

>>12083990
I'm still not seeing it.

>>12084098
I wonder what the target audience of the new movies think of them. I guess the majority of people who hadn't seen NGE in any form before might generally like it just because it has a big budget, (presumably) lots of marketing and a legendary name, not to mention a base story that had already proven successful the first time. Did they adapt it for a new generation successfully?

>>12084030
>Haruhi changed everything again
Explain this. It didn't change much from Eva where you can just replace Haruhi, Nagato, Mikuru with Asuka, Rei, and Misato. And nothing really "changed" other than endless eight.

>>12084030
Any good reading material about Haruhi's effects in the industry and subculture?

>>12084063
Sorry anon, but Shinji is insufferable. Even for /jp/ standards, he is a damn loser.Everytime he shows courage, it feels OOC for such a wimp.

In short, it is hard to feel any pity for him. Why? Because in truth, nobody would want to be his friend.

The first thing I remember about Hiroki Azuma is that he was involved in Fractale and got into a Twitter fight with Yamakan about something related to its production.

I'm surprised that people still think eva is better than gits.

What's the videogame equivalent of Eva?

>>12084138
If you really think that you're a fucking normal who never suffered.

>>12084161
http://beta.foolz.us/v/search/text/evangelion/type/op/

>>12084164
Wait, I thought normals were the ones suffering and we were the ones taking it easy.

>>12084164
Excuses are the refuge of cowards.

>>12084170
please go back to wherever you came from we dont want people like you here

Eva is too mainstream

>>12084098
Yes it did

Anno think anime today lack mainstream appeal

>>12084138
This. My god.

>>12084014
I am /jp/ and I kinda like Evangelion

>>12084024
Hey I like Haibane Renmei too but there's just way too much undeveloped story to call it perfect. We never get answers for all the questions it raises and that leaves us unsatisfied.

>>12084204
First of all, it doesn't need any more answers because it already gave all that were needed. It's primarily a character study, and the supernatural setting is only there to help develop them, and the characters are fully revealed by the final episode.

Second of all, answers are obviously not the reason for Evangelion's ongoing popularity and influence. Remember how the original series ended?

And finally, in the perfect world, there's already been five movies to expand on the original series, with the sixth one in production.

How long until the Colony Drop faggots show up and start crying about the "Pre-moe" era that doesn't exist?

>>12084173
Stop being such a baby, okay?

>>12083972
Wow, it's like you really don't know what you're talking about!

>>12084098
They don't. It's relying on the same formula and dissection as the original series but had replaced "otaku"/" anime"/tokusatsu/etc with itself (because eva has come to represent otaku 2nd gen and beyond). Watch closely.

>>12084316
When you stop sucking my dick.

>>12084098
Because it's Anno masturbating over Eva, parallel to Shinji masturbating over Asuka. Only, Anno is enjoying it and hopes to bust a big creamy load all over its face.

>>12084424
That's actually pretty deep.

>>12084431
There is nothing deep about Eva, it just seems that way because it looks cool.

>>12083784
I though eva was pretty okay. Definately not a "CHANGED MUH PERCEPTION FOR EVER CITIZEN KANE OF ANIME"

I can appreciate the unit and angel designs+fights. Other than that original series characters are awful in the sense that I hate them all except kaji.

art and mari are the only things that kept me coming back for rebuild though

Just go play subahibi or something. You'll get all the shinji and philosophy mumbo jumbo and mindfucks you want.

>>12084530
I hate Mari so much.
I haven't watched any of the movies or anything, but I hate her regardless.

eva is the same shit as everything else gainax has produced. There are people still fawning over their childhood. Big fucking duh.


There are multiple rifts in the otaku culture. The person who wrote this knows jack shit about THE ENTIRETY of Japanese otaku culture.

Fucking nub, gtfo.

>>12084138
Yeah, I can't agree with OP's greentext. I couldn't get over my opinion that most of eva's cast is intolerable, with shinji being at the top of that list. The cast ruined the show for me. I would have dropped the show had it not been that most people think it is worth watching.

Damn, so many hatin ass clowns in this thread.

>>12084546
He knows a lot more about it than you. The fact that he traced the evolution of the subculture and formulated a concept of how and why otaku consume what they do is evidence of that.

>>12084431
It really isn't. Anno is likely having a ball with his super soldier tsundere catgirl Asuka, his gay piano playing Kaworu and other crap, and many viewers did too. Just doing what everyone has been doing for almost two decades, wanking it to the ultimate fap material.

another quality article by the people over at colony drop (: anime peaked with toonami (: if you don't like mecha you're a moefag (:

>>12084145
Yeah he's a bit of a shit. The idea that anime hasn't moved past Eva pops up in other places though. That was part of Anno's justification for the movies even.

Say Gundam was as big of a deal as Eva when the movies came out but Gundam type anime were like a 5 year fad that ended around Dragonar and people don't still watch it the way they do Evangelion, because it doesn't remain modern like Evangelion.

On the other hand I wonder if the entire 2D industry has gotten so broad that it may just be impossible for anything to have the same kind of affect on the direction of it as a whole anymore. Everyone is invested in their own kind of things.

>>12084569
So he's pretty much done what various "experts" and otaku have but since he's using EVA as an example suddenly everyone agrees with him because muh deep Chinese cartoon.

Okay.

Reminder: if you hate shinji you are a) self-loathing and identify with him or b) a massive fucking normie that can't differentiate between the typical dense male MC in harems and someone with legitimate reasons to be indecisive.

I'll let /jp/ decide which one it is.

>>12083804
Agreed. Everyone please stop using the tokiko symbol.

>>12084538
We all do

>>12084569
Uh, Your Christian Banana logic is stupid. Formulation and evidence is fucking different. I can say because your mother was a whore you're a faggot because that's the tread that follows. Since your grandfather was a faggot and your grandmother was a whore.

THIS LOGIC IS FLAWED.

Why is moot meeting these people? Is he living dreams for others?

>>12084661
He's learning how they think and act so he can monetize it to his own end

All these butthurt evafags. The show is a suicidal faggot's wank rag about how women are scary. It has no good characters and the vaunted symbolism is just "hurr crosses and religious words=deep shit." The monster fights and robots were okay but other than than that the show sucks, due in no small part to its characters. Relatability is not required for a good character, but when every single character is a horrible person I'd never like even in a "love to hate them" way, it makes the show hard to like as well.

I'm assuming this is a highly abbreviated version of his argument? I'd be interested in reading a fuller version because the premise seems interesting but its pretty underdeveloped in that quote.

Though I gotta say even the bit quoted in the OP has a lot more substance than the rebuttals in this thread, which are all just some variation of "I didn't like Eva."

>>12084644
I can't stand shinji because as a self-hating 14 year old I would have jumped at a chance to fight aliens in a giant robot

>>12084696
You totally didn't oversimplify the situation at all.

>>12084696
Evangelions aren't robots.

>>12084714
as far as shinji knew at the beginning of the series they were

>>12084161
Ocarina of Time, except it didn't age as well.

>>12084629
Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean there's no depth to it.

>>12084657
Retarded. Go read his shit for the evidence. More than your sorry-ass logic, fuckboy.

Nothing will exceed Eva, but I think Eva's success is overstated. The phenomenon is because of it being the ultimate product for its time: there were numerous factors independent of the work itself that also made it a phenomenon. Anything similar will require unique conditions and different actions and attitudes.

>>12084930
>Nothing will exceed Eva, but I think Eva's success is overstated.
Overstated how? It's the most successful anime ever made. Pre and post-Eva anime are completely different. It's approach to anime has also never been replicated except perhaps in the most esoteric of moe series (but even those fail in the thematic department).

Eva is a postmodern masterpiece that has been completely misunderstood and misconstrued because of its stylistic choices (crosses, kabbalah shit). It's a textual play about life, anime, you and me, creator and viewer which seeks (and fails) to integrate these parts into a coherent resolution (likely because this condition cannot be resolved--only acknowledged and acquiesced); still, each local thread can be dissected and explored endlessly which is why we're still talking about this shit.

I mean there are "deep" works, like Ghost in the Shell which also explores postmodern themes, but Eva is an even deeper (albeit more fragmented) dissection of it as well as a transcendent example of the condition itself when we consider the response to it and the impact it has. There is no "otaku culture" without Eva.

>>12084942
>likely because this condition cannot be resolved--only acknowledged and acquiesced
Shit, just to add to this and then I'll leave you guys be.

The narrative structure itself collapses under the metatextual and thematic weight of the series. Anno and viewer become too involved. In seeking to resolve "real world" issues (i.e. those of Anno) the fiction falls apart--all that's left is a sham of structure which holds the essential abstracts. In resolving the characters, perhaps we can resolve the glaring problems in the narrative of Eva and life, but the characters /never resolve/. The ending of EoE is evidence of this, they go right back to where they were. It's an absurdist ending par excellence. Trapped in an endless loop (as evidenced by the new films). How different is this from the fiction of "real life" (Eva appropriates signs and conventions outside of the narrative through countless reference)? Today we appropriate the signs of Eva into our "real lives" on shirts, cars, stationary, posters, with figures, etc. Eva has physically changed the landscape of our life (at least in Japan) as well as the cultural discourse--a precession. Shit, think about it for a minute. It's fucking crazy.

Anyway, done rambling. Keep talking shit or whatever, but do know that there IS depth to Eva, moreso than any other work I've ever experienced. If you don't think it's deep, it's because you don't know what it's referring to--it speaks a completely different language (one of otaku in the 90s). Whatever.

>>12084942
Read the post in its entirety, please. In considering the phenomenon of Eva, it is imperative to focus on the people and the times along with the work to understand why it had such an impact. Then you realize there will be nothing that "exceeds" Eva, regardless of where it excels in over Eva. Nor should you expect anything, for these things aren't expected; there may be a new phenomenon in the unforeseeable future that ushers a new epoch, or attitudes may change with the times and anime will reflect that. Or it may be 'post-Eva' from here on out and everyone dances and fiddles around until it all comes crashing down.

Consider reality, not just the work. Also, postmodernism is simply modernism cannibalizing itself through obsession with reduction, being obscurantist and 'irony' ("It tries to be deep but it really superficial, but because its superficiality is why it's deep!") Only when one doesn't take anything seriously can they praise something through this lens, rather than coming out and saying what they really mean under the verbiage: it's a broken piece of shit in practically everything it set out to do and its broken viewers took it and reveled in brokenness (now I think I understand a bit why Tomino doesn't like Eva).

>>12085112
>it is imperative to focus on the people and the times along with the work to understand why it had such an impact.
Obviously. But it doesn't mean that it's importance is "overstated." It makes no sense to separate the context from the work it comes from since they are dependent, especially in the case of Eva.

>Only when one doesn't take anything seriously can they praise something through this lens
Not at all. Eva is a serious work. The critical discourse stemming from it is serious. Postmodernism is more than irony. That's only the means through which we can deconstruct texts--only one more angle through which we can appreciate a work. It is not (or at least, should not) be an end in and of itself (this is the biggest problem with postmodernists). I will give to you that postmodern "play" is largely masturbatory, but Eva is an incredibly poignant and personal work--it's not that lazy, ironic detachment.

>it's a broken piece of shit in practically everything it set out to do
You're judging the work around "success" in a modernist sense. It refers to narratives that literally transcend and collapse the medium, hence the purposeful inclusion of external responses (fan mail/hate mail), the blending of medium in the ending, and the discarding of traditional narrative halfway through. Do you really think that the guys at Gainax couldn't just wrap up the series with some generic shit? You're also not giving it credit for being an extremely powerful character study and exercise in absurdism.

It's much more than luck, empty pretension, or failure masquerading as success through collective delusion or irony. People misunderstand that the "depth" of Eva is not from its explorations in introductory philosophy, but it's intertextuality/metatextuality regarding the whole of otaku culture, Japanese culture, life and meaning in the post-war, postmodern age. People get frustrated with Eva, but that's the explicit point that some have managed to miss.

>>12084930
>The phenomenon is because of it being the ultimate product for its time: there were numerous factors independent of the work itself that also made it a phenomenon. Anything similar will require unique conditions and different actions and attitudes.
This is true of every highly influential work. Nothing exists in a vacuum.

>>12083799
I don't want to be an otaku you pathetic human failure

Why is everyone talking about fucking Evangelion? Go back to /a/, please. I can't take it easy when everybody is arguing over stupid anime.

>>12085559
Eva is otaku. Anime is otaku.

/a/ is a bunch of sorry fucks who don't know shit about anime. You will never find the level of discussion you see here over in /a/. Sorry the shitposting isn't to your liking.

imho, the moe stuff, in itself, is not a bad thing.

On the other hand, Moe is present in a subtly way in all kind of anime genres; so it doesn´t exist, I think, as an anime genre in itself.

For its time, it was rather groundbreaking, and was a major factor in transforming Akiba from "electric town" to "otaku town" and a big influence on anime in general. Nowadays, it remains an pretty good Monster of The Week show with interesting characters and development

Nearly every conversation I have with results in one of two points being focused on: Shinji was a pussy. FUCK PUSSIES, or, The religious symbolism was meaningless.

The latter is the only thing resembling a fair criticism, but it's still a dumb point. The focus of the series was always on the characters, framed by the events occurring around them, with a general criticism on escapism. I think Eva is substantial as an homage of previous anime as well, not because of the "philosophical underpinnings" or "religious imagery" or what not. Those elements weren't particularly done very well or were very superficial, and generally only served a greater purpose. It understood the core premises behind a lot of popular anime, and what drew fans to those anime, and celebrated them. It really doesn't matter just how familiar with the religious symbolism you are or aren't. It's just there for show, and complaining that it's just there for show is stupid. Does anyone with actually think Evangelion would've been a better series if they had called them "Aliens" instead of "Angels"?

A rose by any other name. Anno just did it for flair. I really don't see what's wrong with that.
Oh, and /jp/ seems slow today, but you guys know that OP quotes something from 2004 or 2005, during a small slump and just before the character goods industry really took off, right? Anime industry is much bigger today than it was in 1995. And it's making good anime pretty much every season. OP is taking him out of context as well, he literally wrote the book on the evolution of otaku subculture. Just because after Evangelion no anime caused a similar reaction from the fanbase it doesn't mean that no anime is "better" than Evangelion.

>>12084534

If you really understand what you've read/watched in VN/manga/anime, most of them gives philosophical mumbo jumbos whether you like it or not

But then again, every single one of those are pretty useless since they're only showing you perspectives and unspoken ideas within your common sense.

>>12083784
Being a NEET =/= Otaku

An otaku has NEET tendencies but a NEET is just a recluse who may or may not get into Otaku culture.

The NEET concept is related to social awkwardness and stigma that people experience in being a society that is moving and evolving faster than they can keep up. They are judged, looked down upon and resented by their peers (which is mostly in their head).

It's a psychological disorder and can be treated provided the person is willing to.

>>12083873
funny enough I met a korean guy who said he did a presentation in his university about EVA and that's how he knew about it by doing research.

Sometimes I feel like I should watch Evangelion out of obligation but since I don't think I'd like it I haven't and probably won't.

>>12086081
This. Also, I've noticed that most Otakus are actually happier than NEETs with their lives and don't care that much about other people's opinion.

Reminds me of a 39y LovePlus guy who really fell in love with Nene and was really happy with his life. I really should start to think about that way of life.

>>12086081
Uh no, you are totally wrong. The vast majority of NEETs are normal social young people who just can't find jobs. A lot of them have given up looking for work and instead party with their friends.

>>12086307
It's pretty good.

What's better plot and characterwise, Madoka or Evangelion?

>>12086435
Madoka would be better if it was cut in half.

>>12084316
>>12084606
Is the joke that Colony Drops actually hate Evangelion?

>>12083812
this is bs
don't project your own interests onto other people

>>12086039
>Just because after Evangelion no anime caused a similar reaction from the fanbase it doesn't mean that no anime is "better" than Evangelion.
They usually say that no anime is more "otaku" than Eva. I think Azuma and Murakami are of the opinion that Eva is the zenith of otaku anime. After Eva, "otaku" began to lose its stigma (I mean, look around today, it's mainstream now), but at the time, Eva was the culmination of sociocultural repression, existential despair, Anno's depression, and an expression of this collective paralysis seeing otaku culture sort of freeze after growing so much through the 70s and 80s.

There was so much going on during the 90s in Japan, especially with regards to otaku that it's hard to talk about it all. You have the Miyazaki trials and the financial crisis, you have first gens getting older, you have the growth of the internet and eroge, "kawaii" explosion in the 80s. I can only assume that a person that deeply involved (Anno) would feel torn apart at how a medium he has had a hand in has sort of gotten so stale. So he kind of shook it up. It was for otaku, by otaku, using only otaku signs from a rich history.

"Best" anime is up to taste, so that's a nonissue. But in terms of relevance and critical importance, there's not much that can compare to Eva except for its predecessors, perhaps (Gundam, Macross, Space Battleship Yamato), and only because they ultimately culminated in Eva.

Also thanks for clarifying the real issue. I hate people who miss the point by shittalking shinji or crosses.

>>12086933
>After Eva, "otaku" began to lose its stigma (I mean, look around today, it's mainstream now),
I don't think that started around Eva. To the best of my knowledge. Densha otoko was the beginning, Haruhi was a landmark, then there was the birth of NicoNico and then came more KyoAni and blah blah until we get to this point with children growing up with niconico and 2ch, and then we have the super popular anime like K-On, T&B, Madoka continuing the trend. Today if we go on nico news, older people still use the obsessive stereotype, and younger people will use otaku to mean "anime fan" and they might use "kimi otaku" to refer to the obsessive type like pic related.

Eva is trash.
Like most Japanese media, they try to make things as convoluted as possible and try to pass it off as depth.
Just write something really long with plotholes that contradict each other if you look hard enough and you have a recipe for success in Japanese media.

I like the artstyle and I like the cute girl archetypes, but if you want something more than wankmaterial and an actual thought provoking story, look to the west.

>>12087073
>most Japanese media
>convoluted

>>12083857
>``
What did I just say?

>>12087073
You are right. Eva would have been better as a pure mecha action anime. The freudian 101 crap sucked. I honestly don't understand why it is rated so high all the time.

I do own an Asuka figure though so.... I'm just another mindless otaku with money to burn.

>>12084014
No, it was pretty bad in all honesty. The only thing I remember fondly about it was the mecha fights and (none-character) art, everything else was just a pain to watch through due to how unlikeable the characters were and how messy the writing was. I'd like to say that it was good for its time, but honestly, it really wasn't.

>>12085230
>People misunderstand that the "depth" of Eva is not from its explorations in introductory philosophy, but it's intertextuality/metatextuality regarding the whole of otaku culture, Japanese culture, life and meaning in the post-war, postmodern age.
Pretty much. Evangelion extends beyond just a look at a broken boy and encompasses the entirety of otaku culture through the inclusion of homages, references, and the use of common cliches and then the breakdown of the narrative to an emotional struggle in a vacuum like environment.

People just like to sit down and look for the "message" and they don't realize that art isn't just a "message" to be received but an emotional experience.

>>12087436
Couldn't that apply to any story about a lonely boy in a world that has unrealistic expectations of him?

but really how much different was it from Secret of Blue water

>>12087553
Nadia was a nigger.
Nobody likes niggers.

>>12087436
>People just like to sit down and look for the "message"
People wanted giant robots fighting aliens and SABISU.

>>12087567
Then Kafka's The Metamorphosis.

>>12087570
That didn't have a happy ending.

>>12087567
Niggers don't exist in anime, it's just a skin color for them.

>>12087574
Death is the closest thing otaku have to a happy end.

All over in the U.S. Japan and even elsewhere, 1995 and a the surrounding years saw all kinds of stuff thrown into all kinds of media purely for the sake of attracting mystique. Worked, too. I still love this shit.

The majority of posters on 4chan's otaku culture oriented boards will actively chide you for any yearnings toward "deeper" characters, better world building and more ambitious writing.

Is it the same in Japan? Is there a "2deep4u" shitposting equivalent?

All over in the U.S. Japan and even elsewhere, 1995 and the surrounding years saw all kinds of stuff thrown into all kinds of media purely for the sake of attracting mystique. Worked, too. I still love this shit.

>>12087604
What does that have to do with 2deep4u?

>>12087616
It's called aesthetics, and it's an important part of art and entertainment. The crosses don't need to mean anything, if they look cool (which they do) they've served a purpose.

Try explaining art to people who think they're too smart for Eva though.

>>12087010
Considering the enormous impact of Eva beyond otaku, it certainly had a hand in making it more socially acceptable. Of course, Studio Ghibli was already doing a good job of that, but TV anime was still looked down upon excepting popular series like Sazae or Doraemon. All the series you mentioned certainly add to this trend, but Eva might be the first "breakthrough" anime. Like before that you wouldn't see department stores with limited edition anime promo goods (that I know of at least).

>>12087497
Nope, because very few anime get to Eva's level of referentiality. Some shows do push the envelope like Nadesico, but coming after Eva, it wasn't so powerful. It's like, Eva has framed all the anime that comes after it. Very few works can claim that level of influence.

>>12087568
Yep, and Eva used those conventions and expectations to contrive a discourse around that very desire (i.e. escapism) from the perspective of both fan and creator. How can a piece of escapist media resolve the problem of escapism? Many anime before discuss the anxiety of apocalypse, war, and nuclear paranoia. I think Eva tries to show how the medium itself is a failure in communicating and resolving issues outside of fiction. The whole series is about reaching out to others, yet being misunderstood and hurt. If Anno used Eva to cope with his depression and isolation, it's obvious that he realized that it wouldn't help him partway through, which is why it takes an almost nihilist turn, but it resolves itself somewhat positively because it did touch a lot of people.

>>12087010
> "kimi otaku"
Isn't that "kimo ota"?

>>12087780
Yes or kimo otaku

No Evangelion, no TypeMoon

'I felt my brain had been smacked hard after just watching the opening theme.' Kinoko Nasu, co-founder of Type-Moon

>Overall, the cause was because of watching the first episode of Neon Genesis Evangelion, which can't have been ignored by neither I nor my contemporaries. The story goes back to my high school days, where I met Takeuchi-kun. At the time I announced that I will become a novelist in the future, and Takeuchi-kun said he will become a manga artist, this was like the plot of some popular manga, and in reality we talked to each other quite a bit. Thinking back on it now, it was pretty embarrassing (laughs). Since then, we both graduated from college, Takeuchi-kun went to work at a game company, and I found a local job. I had the casual goal of "finding some time to write a novel," and I didn't notice my dream was slowly being buried while I lived idly as the day by day. Neon Genesis Evangelion was what gave me a big push in the back... or should I say kicked me and sent me flying. Not even the first episode itself, I felt my brain had been smacked hard after just watching the opening theme. My heart thought, how can someone think to bring the PV (Promotion Video) method to anime? How ideas can be expressed so freely in anime? "If there are people in this world who are so ahead of the rest, what am I still being confused about?" My heart was severely shocked. I supposed Eva has the charm and enthusiasm that makes people think "I have to do something." I'm sure of it. Instead of idly saying "when I have time next time," I should at least write something.

"Higurashi wouldn't have been born without Evangelion." -says Ryukishi07

>Reporter: In what way have your works been influenced by EVA?

>Ryukishi07: It has taught me that there is a way to play a game by considering the world view. Things like, in the OP, what is the true nature of that shining man of which we only get a fleeting reflection? What is the Human Instrumentality Project? This way to play can be done for games, anime, etc. I've realized it can also be applied to stories. Perhaps, this way of playing considering the appearance of the world could be exerting a strong influence in "Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni". Higurashi only presented this way of playing once again, in that meaning, one could definitely say it's a work that wouldn't have been born without EVA.

>Reporter: Please express to us your thoughts and enthusiasm about EVA.

>Ryukishi07: As of yet I don't know the amount of influence that EVA has exerted on the game scenario. I can't really say how much of EVA has crossed over all the presentation and direction of the game. It's also a magnificent work, one that stands over the rest, and, perhaps, the way we've continued after it is a disappointment*. What can we take, what tales we'll be able to spin from this magnificent story? EVA was good, but when it ended ** it seems we haven't learned anything from it. To understand something from this work, and make games and anime with really interesting content well known, we will have to make a much stronger effort, I think.

>>12088079
>>12088083
Hey how about posting some of the positive things eva did instead of just negatives?

Eva worship and moot dicksucking. It's like I'm really on /a/.

>>12087604
Pretty much everyone will chide you if you defend crap with "you just don't understand it".

All this pomo goopy doop.
I bet you nerds would think pro wrestling is genius.

Evan-jelly-on.

>>12086421
So everyone says. I just don't feel like I'd enjoy a show where I don't like the characters.

Some of the greatest books of all time were full of assholes but I didn't enjoy reading them because I'm only into cheap entertainment. Sorry, postmodernists.

>>12086435
Eva is character driven, Madoka is narrative driven. Apples and oranges.

>>12087073
>>12087331
Wow, more people, removed from the context of it's creation, who cannot understand Eva's depth and thus accuse it of being shallow. Guess what, accusations like that imply that you are either unfamiliar with otaku culture to the point that you do not recognize the intertextuality, or too stupid to appreciate something more complex than a generic boy-saves-world story. Go away.

>>12086435
Madoka wins on story by default. Eva has better characterization. The only well-written Madoka char was Homura. Others were decent, but pretty forgettable, including Madoka herself. Fuck blue hair.

>>12085958
imho, the moe stuff, in itself, is not a bad thing.
On the other hand, Moe is present in a subtly way in all kind of anime genres; so it doesn´t exist, I think, as an anime genre in itself.
Moe does exist as a genre due to how it's settled in its conventions. Though, it's not as straightforward as, say, action or romance. It's more like noir--a mix of atmosphere, aesthetic, character types, and standard plots. It kinda tags onto other "proper genres."

People who hate on moe don't know shit about otaku culture, the bishoujo, or what moe even means. Ignore them.