/jp/ - Otaku Culture

Reminder that WaniKani is the superior SRS.

>>11809403
But adding cards to my vocab deck is a pain in the ass... ;_;

Tangentially related, I recently stumbled upon the artist which made one of Wanikani's logos.

http://www.jasmindarnell.com

>>11809471
Does anyon in /jp/ actually use this? It feels like a samefag who can't stop talking about it.

>>11809473
The people who are worried they are doing something wrong are the people who won't shut up about what they're doing because they want people to respond to them telling them it's alright, which is why you get the endless RTK and wanikani circlejerks of people making themselves feel better about what they're doing event though they know deep down what they should be doing but are too scared to actually do it. Learning a language isn't hard, you don't need all these bullshit methods. The base concept is incredibly easy and everyone knows what it is, just like everyone knows how to lose weight, but they are too lazy to actually do it so they do these sugarcoated bullshit convoluted diets that actually don't do anything but give the illusion of progress. That's what RTK and wanikani are, they are just give you a sense of accomplishment and a pat on the back every 5 minutes even though you're really barely learning anything.

>>11809473
I do. I never post about it though.

>>11809485
WaniKani is literally just an SRS with spoonfed vocab and kanji. There's nothing wrong about it, it's no different from using Anki. You can supplment with Anki too if you like. It's just a way for beginners to grind out those jouyou alongside a bit of vocab, which is something that everyone needs to do. There's no backpatting at all, it just keeps feeding you kanji and saying whether you're correct or not.

I shill it because I quite like it and it seems to have much potential to grow. It's cross because it's html and has an open API that's really cool.

My one complaint is I would like to see stroke order, at least optionally, in a writing practice tab.

>>11809485
Well, kanji learning does actually help when it comes to japanese, but I know quite a good amount of people who actually learned the language without studying a single minute of kanji, and just memorizing them by words. Not everyone can do that easily, though. However, I do feel like RTK is too fast for something that is considered not an easy task to go through, so it makes me actually wonder if just "memorizing" meanings and "getting used to kanji" and "being able to distinguish them" is actually something as useful as just fucking writing them down or memorizing them, or even learning them by vocabulary.

>>11809509
Are these people able to read and write at a fluent level? That's very hard to believe. Even native speakers learn kanji in school, it's pretty much standard practice.

Dunno what that guys talking about that is the "right" way to be learning. If he means dictionary reading and exposure, that's nearly impossible without a core vocabulary.

>>11809485
...speaking about samefag who can't stop talking...

>>11809525
One of them, yes, but the other one is only able to maintain a fluent level when it comes to speaking and listening. She learned the language by constant exposure in niconico livestreams, TV shows, and adding people from those skype ID sites. However, it's not hard to believe someone has enough patience/good memory to learn thousands of words without learning the kanji individually. I still vouch for learning it before learning vocabulary, though, because it works very well for me. I tend to memorize words with much more ease with this method than words which have a kanji I don't know. But I still think that overdoing shit to learn kanji in 1 or 2 months feels more like lying to oneself than actually learning the characters.

>>11809503
So then why would you pay for a shittier version of Anki? The answer is obvious, because it goes at such a slow pace that it's something you can do with your eyes closed and actually makes you think you're learning Japanese at a reasonable rate. If you put in some actual effort, you can go at literally 10x wanikani pretty easily.

>>11809509
>I know quite a good amount of people who actually learned the language without studying a single minute of kanji, and just memorizing them by words

That's good, you can learn from their mistakes.

>>11809539
I'm not bothered. I have other things to do and can't be spending all day learning Japanese. It's more of a hobby and at the rate it's moving I should have level 50 in a year. That's fast enough for me considering I supplement with writing practice, so I will really know the kanji rather than only recognize them. It's already paid off with much better comprehension in chat rooms and nico.

Why are you so hurried?

>>11809548
>Why are you so hurried?
It's really pathetic that you think anything faster than wanikani is "hurried". That's like being happy with losing 10lb's a year when you're morbidly obese and telling everyone else their anorexic.

>>11809405
good try devs. even at first glance your product is shit.

>>11809406
keep them in a notepad tab sepparated
or in excel

and import all at once

>>11809571
The issue is that I add example sentences from jisho/weblio in the back of the card (I do not add their translations, however), so I add each one of them manually...

>>11809561
That's a bad analogy.

It's hurried relative. Ten times the pace would be N1-N2 kanji in 1.2 months. Fast by any measurement.

What are your anki stats? I doubt it's much faster unless you are spending a considerable amount of your time learning.

Learning Japanese is like a speed race against other learners.

>>11809574
Why wouldn't you just use the example sentence from the sentence you originally added it from?

>>11809579
>implying you can do N1 in a year with wanikani
My anki stats are about 30-50 words a day. That's basically it. After exactly one year of learning my 15,000 vocabulary had ~2700 unique kanji (I checked), which I had 0 problems recognizing.
Recently I started a writing deck where I just put a couple words like:
＿ - むくろ
＿骨 - がいこつ
on the front and try to write the kanji. I added 100 kanji a day for almost a month, and now I can write almost every kanji I can recognize. It's only been about a month since then, but my pass rate is about 97% and most of the cards are mature now so I don't think I should run into any major problems.
Overall I spend 45-60 minutes doing Anki per day, which of course is a only a fraction of the time I spend "learning" Japanese.

>>11809620
That's... a good idea. Thanks, anon.

>>11809630
I tried SRSing sentences at one point, I didn't really like it and didn't go past a couple hundred, but I still add to the deck from time to time for words that require a bit of context. Some people love doing sentences though.

>>11809405
Wanikani is good for single kanji learning, but it's definitely not good for vocabulary learning: lack of context and just learning the words like a parrot. It's very slow, as well, because obviously it's better for them to slow you down as you need to renew the subscription with time. It's a scam. It would be a good tool for learning single kanji if it was cheaper or for free.

Anki is much better at vocabulary memorizing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUzrqhtyKBA

>>11809713
/jp/ holding the camera.

How many kanji/vocab did you learn before doing reading? I've learnt about 300 kanji and 1000 vocab but when trying to read some simple shit I keep having to check in a dictionary

>>11809923
2k Kanji is what they "know" out of highschool. 2k is also what pretty much every "core vocabulary" thing consists of.

Moege uses much simpler vocabulary of course, so you may wish to start with that.

>>11809923
Keep learning kanji, keep learning vocab, and keep checking the dictionary. One day you'll know enough words to stop checking it.

>>11809923
wow so you studied for a month huh and you find it surprising that you need to use a dictionary when you try to read jap?!?!?!?!

>>11809933
3 months... Yes I suck at it

>>11809939
what have you been doing? even a leisurely 20 kanji a day would give you 1.8k in 3 months. 30-40 vocab a day as well and you'd be making some good progress.

and this isnt even that trolling 100 kanji a day so easy shit. like 20 a day is fucking relaxing

>>11809473
It really is samefag. It does less than anki due to its slow ass pace because they want to joo you.

It took me a week to learn the kanji with RTK. You guys really should do more studying and less /jp/ing.

>>11809990
Study this, asshole. *whips out dick*

>>11809929
>One day you'll know enough words to stop checking it.

Bah. I'm still checking English dictionaries despite over a decade of relative fluency. I'm also checking dictionaries in my very own native language all the time. I'm pretty sure I'll be consulting Japanese ones for the rest of my life. And so will he.

>>11809923
The above aside - from my experience, five times that is when a positive effects become really visible. I don't know what kind of things you're reading, though, may be different for them. Best to get your vocab from your reading practice for maximum efficiency (but learn kanji systematically, you'll need them all).

>>11810002
>I'm also checking dictionaries in my very own native language all the time.
Are you a retard?

>>11810023
Am I a retard for reading things outside of my comfort zone? I wonder...

>>11809977
>$5/mo
>jewing
I can't even buy a big mac for $5 here, WK is cheap as shit.

>>11810030
What is your native language?

>>11810039
Not telling, I'm afraid of internet stalkers. What does it matter?

>>11810030
Not him but it's been more than 1 year since I've checked any dictionary entry in my native language, and I check a word in english every 1 month or something. So I can't imagine how would someone keep checking dictionary entries so often.

>>11810087
There are so many fields of human knowledge and activity and each has its own distinct vocabulary. Are you never trying to find out about any of them? Is your job/college major/autism money (whichever applicable) literally your entire life? Are you not even playing scrabble?

>>11809968
I am getting 15% acuracy with 20 kanji. can only stably to maybe 10 vocab a day

>>11810075
Jesus, what's your language tell us other than a vague possibility of locale?

>>11810125
That's my point. What does it tell you that makes it important for me to mention?

>>11810134
Because languages have their own particularities and by knowing your language it'll make more sense if you use the dictionary or not.

>>11810134
Well, I only meant it in the framework of personal security. if you happen to be in those languages where homonyms are frequent, it seems to me that dictionaries are more helpful.

>>11810030
I think you're a very inquiring and hard-working person, not a retard.
I don't check my native dictionary, but only because I'm lazy and because I don't read any novels in it nowadays. Last time I read one I was horrified how many obsolete and literary I didn't know. They did not prevent me from understanding the plot, but I can't forget the horror of realization that I don't really know even my native language.

I (re-)started reading actual literature in my mother tongue recently and in all honesty there do are words i didn't know here and there; peharps by just surfing the internet or reading poorly translated porn games i wouldn't find new words so often. Not all native speakers are equally good at their own language, anyway. ( http://testyourvocab.com/blog/2013-05-09-Reading-habits )

>>11810159
Man, I barely check words but I feel like I just memorize their meaning after I learn them once. It's strange.

Are there any memorization techniques other than rote memorization and mnemonics?

Pure, mindless rote drilling eventually works, but it's probably the most inefficient way to learn something. And personally, mnemonics don't really work for me. I see how they would work well if it's easy for you to remember catchy stories, but my mind just doesn't work that way.

I think I need some kind of visually based memorization technique, but I don't know of anything other than rote drilling and mnemonics.

Why use anki when you can just translate eroge all day and write shit on lang-8?

>>11810087
When was the last time you used wikipedia?

>>11809927
Yeah I hate to ask but what is moege? Tried google but brings up nothing

>>11810348
moe game, 萌えゲー

>>11810348

Moe games (VN's with nothing but cute girls doing cute things, so the vocabulary used is minimal.)

>>11810184
what I've found that works recently is to visualise the character as something that represents or can be easily linked to the meaning of a word the kanji is used in.

You have to make up your own but here's an example of one I used: 「若い」 mother standing over cot ( young baby in the cot )

I don't memorise all readings of the kanji robotically but rather the vocabulary that involves them. It's a lot easier. A lot.

>>11810377
So shit like
°uguu~ onni-chan! Kawaii desu?

>>11810384
Not that much, I'd say. Once in a while some non-jouyou kanji pops up.

>>11810387
Alright that's great thanks

I just noted that 萌 isn't even a jouyou kanji. That list is so shit.

>>11810447
At this point, it could be considered a jouyou kanji, considering how often it is used in otaku culture.

>>11810447
>俺 wasn't jouyou until 4 years ago

>>11810447
>>11810521
>>11811154
>implying that jouyou is even close to a complete list of kanji you need to know in order to read, and not just the bare minimum to be able to read anything

>>11812883

Lick my nuts, Moogy

>>11812893
Have fun trying to read things with just the jouyou kanji.

How do you like doing your reps jp? I'm going to bed soon and I'll do mine on my smartphone!

>>11812883
Nobody was implying that. Fuck off back to /v/

>>11813204

LICK MY NUTS, MOOGY!

>>11813280
I wanted to do them today but I watched some of Ken Shimura's stuff instead. Had a good laugh

Only started learning Japanese a week ago.
I recently went through Genki 1 and 2.

I'm now doing a basic class based kanji deck.

Now I tried to start a vocab deck Core2k and I noticed that it has some kanji I don't know yet.

How much kanji should i know before going for a vocab deck?

>>11819819
65,000

>>11819819
a lot of people recommend 0.
Just start with vocab, and learn the kanji that go with the vocab as you go.

It's also highly recommended to make your own deck instead of using a premade one.

すみませんですが、ｓｕｃｋ　ｍｙ　ｄｉｃｋください。

。。。お願いします！！！ >_<

>>11819819
You should know about 700 kanji already after a week dude

>>11822576
More like 3000 a day.

I can't do my reps every day, /jp/
I can doo them once a two days, help me please /jp/
It's like I don't have any initial energy to put into doing it.

>>11819819
How did you "go through" Genki 1&2 in a week?

>>11825517
By doing it wrong.

>>11825439
I will give you a kiss for everyday you do our reps

>>11825439

Is RTK a waste of time?

>>11826692

Yes

>>11826692
No

>>11826692
Maybe

>>11826679

LITTLE GIRLS DONT DO DRUGS

>>11826692

I don't know.

Why is /jp/'s Anki thread so pathetic in comparison to /a/'s DJT?

They're actively learning every day and progressing further and further, but our thread is just filled with apathetic replies and an overall sense of lethargic depression. This thread has been up since Wednesday and 90% of the thread is just, "I have no willingness..."

In that same time, /a/'s DJT thread has created at least 7 threads that all reached the bump limit by the end of the day, sometimes even needing to make multiple daily threads in a single day.

Watching these Anki threads is almost identical to watching elephant seals.

>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMV7kuL0sow

>>11826944
>an overall sense of lethargic depression
Welcome to /jp/. We like to take it easy, at our own pace.

Don't bully wanikani poster.
Or he will cry.

>>11827002
Hahahahaha.
Fucking beautiful.

>>11826944
keep posting it in every thread you fuck
DJT is just as bad but more smug and delusional

>>11826944
It's because /a/'s thread is actually about japanese, while /jp/'s thread is about a flashcard program that you use for your first couple years of learning.

>>11827355

shut up you fucking traitor we're just as good as they are

>>11827355
Fuck off. /a/ is a bad place.

>>11827374
>>11827379

It's like I'm really on WaniKani.

>>11827355
/a/'s thread is just RTK but with the added benefit of not being able to go at your own pace and having the support of other people that don't know anything to answer questions. Neither thread is going to do anyone any good, and anyone seriously posting in either is probably never going to learn the language. If anything this thread has less pretense because you can tell it's shit right off the bat.

>>11826695
>>11826699
>>11826897
Can you repeat the question?

>>11827401
Well, I can't argue with that.

>>11827401
Owned.

>>11827401
>Neither thread is going to do anyone any good

I respectfully disagree. As many before me have pointed out, the mere presence of those threads is enough to motivate many people.

OP seems to understand this well and never claims to attempt anything else. Any additional reply has a benefit of keeping the thread up for others to see. Their contents are irrelevant, as they should be.

>>11828886
OP here, why did I create this thread?

I started with anki by randomly clicking on one of these threads few 月 ago, next month I will sign up for JLPT5, all thanks to tiny but unavoidable daily grinding. Having other people here, as delusional as that is, kinda feels like I'm part of /jp/anki community, so it's a way to pass the torch and from time to time - it feels good man...

Is there a lewd kanji/vocab deck? I have no idea about Japanese but I would imagine that they have a lot of euphemisms like in English.

>>11828998
>JLPT5
You must be joking

>>11829107
Some people need encouragement every step of the way or they'll never get anything done.

See also: this thread.

>>11829118
It's better to get encouraged by practical benefits, I think. No diploma could give me the satisfaction I get from reading porn.

>>11829107
yes I know all you people here have finished JLPT1 in a day, and think it's shit, since it took you another day to be more fluent than natives.

But for non troll fags JLPT5 is not that easy, and it is an achievement if you self study. According to Japanese Language Education Center it takes about 250~400 hours of study time to pass it if you don't know kanji. That's a year if you study an hour a day, every single day. And I will take their word for it, not some /jp/ weeaboo faggot that masturbates to translated evangelion, and probably haven't passed any jlpt, but claims he could, if he could just leave his silicon waifu for a day.

>>11829244
I know people who literally passed level 5 by just watching anime.

>>11829244
JLPT5 is piss easy.
And it's worth shit exactly because of that.

>>11829261
that's what they told you.

>>11829268
I went to Japanese university for exchange, I had Japanese lessons 5 times a week, 3-4 clock hours each. In 6 months we did both minna no nihongo 1 books (including the workbook) and half of basic kanji book vol1.

That's enough for JLPT5, I don't think it's enough for JLPT4 since they need like 300 kanji. That is the amount of work it takes, to do the first one - and that was in a japanese environment, japanese teachers, homework everyday, structured classes and tests. Doing it at home takes more time and effort, since you have no teachers available to correct you or explain anything.
So I call bullshit on calling JLPT5 piss easy. BULLSHIT!

But some people think you're either "a fluent shitting on JLPT1 japanese sensei god" or "you don't know how to say hello". With nothing in between. And it takes a few days to get from one to the other.

>>11829297
I feel bad for you. I can't believe someone wasted so much time going to classes just to be able to take N5. Makes me wonder what the hell did you do in those classes. Also, by doing 10 kanji per day (either by writing them or going through RTK or KD or whatever the fuck is your method), you can reach all jouyou kanji in like, less than 1 year, so don't think you can just blame kanji for your incompetence.

>>11829244
1 year to pass JLPT N5?

>>11829297
I learnt from the exact same books, except for 3 years, 1,5 hours/week with a really shitty teacher (forgive me sensei, but you had no teaching qualifications) and only managed to progress through half of those books during class. I could still piss away JLPT5 after a year, although admittedly not with a perfect score.
The only extra work I needed to do is to grind the 500 kanji in BKB during summer break on my own, because classes were just so slow.

>>11829322
yea, what native japanese people teaching japanese language to foreigners at a public university for a living know about how to learn japanese... you probably know more anon.

if you want to reach L5 from zero that's the amount of time you have to put in. Unless you learn only for the test, then I guess you can trim some of that off, but that's retarded - the test is the measure not the goal.

Also you don't teach 10 kanji a day to people who don't know how to say hello or read kana anon. You start learning kanji like 1/3 in. And the language does not consist of kanji, but there's vocab (1/3 of the book) and shit load of grammar (1/3 of minna nn is grammar).

Basically you're just a heater that other people also try learn your precious nihongo...

>>11829353
No, I just think it's a waste of time to spend so much time to study for N5 when if you either study by yourself or self-study while taking classes, you could take N3 or even N2 with enough effort in a single year. In one day to two weeks, one can learn the whole kana, and after that dedicate one to two hours per day to learning kanji by himself, either by handwriting or the anki methods. The issue is that those people teaching japanese to foreigners in a public university expect you to just study in those classes. If you want to learn the language in a good, swift pace, you need to also study by yourself, or else it'll take too long. Classes are good ,sure, but relying solely on them is not. Just like only doing kanji reps everyday is retarded.

>>11829341
thats what they suggest, but I guess you could do it in half as in >>11829297
but it's not piss easy like some people claim, unless you study only for the test.

>>11829344
we did both in 6 months. It kinda works out similar amount of classes. " I could still piss away JLPT5 after a year"
> after a year
> after a year

Yeah, JLPT5 isn't easy at all.

>>11829374
ｸｿﾜﾛﾀwwwwww

>>11829363
> No, I just think it's a waste of time to spend so much time to study for N5
> when if you either study by yourself or self-study while taking classes

Do you have problems with understanding English? I was studying the language. Let me repeat: "the test is the measure not the goal"
And after that amount of effort that's the level one will be at. You can't cheat it. And even if you learn all the kanji - so what? Even if you know 5000 kanji you can't pass N5. You don't know the vocab or the grammar... Only together they form something useful.

>The issue is that those people teaching japanese to foreigners in a public university expect you to just study in those classes.

Oh so all that fucking homework everyday fucking day, pages and pages of it - what was that for?
If I'm only expected to study in the class?

I have a feeling you're just jelly :3

> You don't know the vocab or the grammar... Only together they form something useful.
That's why I can just read Tae Kim's guide or the dozens of textbooks out there, which won't take me 6 months to comprehend and be able to pass N5, which is ridiculously easy and ask you basic knowledge to pass. Homework and such things are good, I admit, but things like immersion can only be done by you yourself. I have no reason to be jealous considering you've put a ridiculous amount of effort to be able to pass the easiest level of JLPT, but that also is a matter of at which pace you go. You don't seem to understand that it's still possible to take N3 and below (I won't say either N4 or N5 because they're too easy) in only one year by just putting the required effort. Don't fool yourself thinking your method is the most effective and your supposed "6 months/1 year" time span to pass JLPT 5 is the universal truth. You can reach much farther than that, but that depends on how much effort you put into it. Grammar, vocabulary, kanji, all of those can be done everyday, by immersion and self-studying. One can actually learn japanese without leaving his home.

Why are you having the same conversation everyday?

>>11829403
I seriously don't remember anyone ever claiming in these threads N5 is hard.

>>11829382
you wasted your time and money dude and will probably never learn japanese because youre not willing to put in the smallest amount of effort lol

>>11829394
> "6 months/1 year" time span to pass JLPT 5 is the universal truth

if you study *nothing*but*the*test*material* - sure you can do it a lot faster But I would take a person that has general language knowledge that also encompasses L5, over a person that only studied L5 curriculum any day...

>You don't seem to understand that it's still possible to take N3 and below
> (I won't say either N4 or N5 because they're too easy) in only one year by just putting the required effort.

And you seem not to understand it's not one level for life. Like once branded with L5 cert, one is forever bound to it's level.

>>11829409
It was free, even got a scholarship, so they kinda paid me to go there and I left with N5+ in my head, what's your point again...?

You're all crazy, I'm out of here...

Bunch of lazy fug boys in here.

Why don't you just take drugs and succeed despite your own laziness?

>>11829415
lol if you dont understand the idea that time is money.

i wonder what kind of degree you got. its of the arts isnt it hahahahahhahahah

>>11829430
and it was time well spent. btw I did Master of Science in CompSci, no student loans - so there - eat your heart out.

>>11829445

Ａｌｌ　ｈａｉｌ　ｔｈｅ　ｍａｓｔｅｒ　ｏｆ　ｓｃｉｅｎｃｅ！

anyone tried this?

>>11829415

LOL
This third worlder is steamed as HELL just because nobody is impressed with his N5 or that it took him a year to pass it. How pathetic that the only reason he studies is to brag to people online about how skilled he (thinks) he is

>>11829450
I want them to rub my dick with the feet

>>11829430
>paying for a degree
jajajajajajjaa

>>11829460
i think it took him 6 months if you read more closely, which is not bad. other people just dismiss it, but they have nothing better to offer really other than some vague notions of doing n3 in a year, if you think about it it's not incompatible either; so.....

>>11829503
6 months is not bad. But I did hear implications of N5 at one year, and he also implied that it is a hard level. That is the whole problem about what he's saying. Regardless of how long it takes, N5 is by no means "difficult".

>>11829506
depending on that you mean by it.

If you just learn 103kanji and 728voc + grammar - it's easy.

If you learn the language just for the sake of it, the time needed to fill in the gaps. You learn more than you need for the test; for use in real life; but that also means that the amount of time before a test can be passed increases. Right? Checked the wiki since they don't have anything on website - the lower ballpark is kinda high - 250 hours that's not something one can do in a month, technically you can but if you have no llife...

>>11829353
>what native japanese people teaching japanese language to foreigners at a public university for a living know about how to learn japanese..
Like all those english teachers in Japan trying to teach english for a living, right?
Japanese language education is just plain backwards.

>>11829367
> after a year
Thats around 40 real hours of studying in class and another 40 hours of self-study/homework during commuting and another ~40 hours of kanji grind during summer break.
And there was all that useless stuff I picked up from anime, porn manga and japanese games. But you were studying japanese in Japan of all places, how could you not pick up everything needed for JLPT5 in a month? I'm envious of you, but you wasted your chance.

>>11829475

Why do people who don't understand Japanese discuss how to learn Japanese?

>>11829560
Because they want to learn Japanese, obviously.

>>11829543

learning for JLPT5 test != introduction to Japanese. You learn 10x more than JLPT5 requires, but 90% of it is not useful on the test, and you will fail.

It's like a cake with raisins , the cake is the japanese class, the raisins in the cake are things tested on JLPT5 . You only eat raisins when you eat the cake. It's only a hand full of raisins and can be eaten in few mouthfuls, but when you need to eat the cake to eat them it takes longer. Get it?

>>11829567
My statement still stands.
You were in native environment.

>>11829560
muh ankee
muh arr-tee-kay

>>11829573
being in a native environment does not make you a rainman, besides just learning lvl5 material is useless.

>>11829567
I seriously don't understand how. I just did N5 and N4samples in the test and they still look ridiculously easy, at the point of a person being able to pass N4 in 6 months of studies. You guys are seriously putting the easier levels of this test in a pedestal and genuflecting as if it had any actual difficulty. It doesn't. At all.

>>11829567
>You learn 10x more than JLPT5 requires, but 90% of it is not useful on the test, and you will fail.

And now you should understand why the test is pointless.

>>11829542
>You learn more than you need for the test; for use in real life
You do realize almost everyone in this board has no need for such skills, right?

>>11829450
>>11829548
What are they doing?

>>11829592
My friend learnt swedish in half a year while in Sweden.
My another friend learnt french in half a year while in France,
Yet another of my friend learnt polish in half a year while in the UK.

And they were normalfags.
You just suck.

>>11829599
how many new letters/pictograms did they have to learn?

>>11829592
yeah not that dude but not being able to learn a language when surrounded by it lol

>>11829599
>learnt polish in half a year while in the UK

Okay...

>>11829608
how do you know he didn't? he's probably more fluent by interacting with the natives than watching anime

>>11829613
now youre just showing how ignorant you are lol

>>11829604
>MUH JAPANESE IS HAAARD
Come on, we are talking about N5 here, not the kind of fluency they have achieved.
You have NO EXCUSE for not being able to learn N5 stuff in a month while living in Japan.

>>11829613
Funny as it might sound, it's true.
The "spot the british" game stopped being funny after an hour. The areas he worked were full of polish and indian/pakistani people, the only british he had seen were retired people.

How many of you guys are learning Japanese as your first foreign language?

>>11829632
>not being trilingual over 20
Just kill yourself.

>>11829640
But Japanese is my fourth language

>>11829651
Hiragana, katakana and kanji are not different languages, Ken-sama.

>>11829651
Serbian, Croatian and Bosnian are not different languages, Stefanovic-kun.

>>11829651
Norwegian, Swedish and Danish are not different languages, Sven-chan.

>>11829640

Are there any languages other than English and Japanese that are even worth looking at?

No one else produces any decent entertainment.

>No one else produces any decent entertainment.
>turkish soap operas
>arab speaking terrorists
>russian drunkards
>german video games
>brazilian vidya players
>serbian war-crime denials
>korean music
>chinese movies
>etc.
You are missing out.

>>11829665
>>11829668
You got one language right

>>11829297
And this is the type of person who supports ankishit threads.

>>11829681
Disgusting.

Go back to /int/.

>>11829701
just let it go anon

>>11829681

>german video games

No thanks, I'm not interested in public transportation simulators.

>>11829617
>thinking JLPT5 is hard
>fluent in any way

top kek

>>11829681
>arab speaking terrorists
>brazilian vidya players
Needs more subtlety.

>>11829748
Are you not entertained by them?

i realized that as my japanese gets better and better, i lost my friends one by one. now im a hikikomori shit

>>11829763

>i lost my friends one by one

You are stronger now. They were holding you back.

>>11829741
what if i wold you you can pass JLPT1 and still think JLPT5 level is not that easy to attain?

>>11810219
「暗記」の意味をチェックしろ

If I'm a single language person hoping to learn japanese how should I start. This thread doesn't really give a "start here if you suck" point.

>>11830136

Learn hiragana and katakana

>>11830147
In that order? I assume kanji comes immediately afterwards.

>>11830211
kata then hiragana. Then study a book.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=va3QCXWX0oM

do them

>>11830211
Yeah, after you've learned kana then just grind kanji. You should aim for maybe 40 a day to get started because the first kanji you will learn are piss easy. Then move up to 100+ a day

For the kanji just download anki and the RTK deck and grind until you know all the basic kanji. Then you will be able to read 90% of VNs, manga, light novels etc

>>11830211
hiragana, katakana order does not matter. Usually people start with hiragana though... If you like flashcards use one of shared anki decks.

Like these - they have pronunciation and stroke diagrams
https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/722065315
https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/1456571491


And after that, well... I would suggest 2 areas of focus:
- grammar/vocab
- kanji

If you're looking for reading material try DJT from /a/ here >>100731456

>>11822681
Dude what the fuck speed it up I learned Japanese in 6 hours now I'm halfway through the Chinese language.

Should I finish my 20th or 24th language before I tell mensa I'm a genius?

The N5 was basically created as a way of jewing money out of people that thought the N4 was too hard.

>>11829353
The only thing heated here is the steaming pile of excrement that you call your Japanese skills.

>>11829353
>what native japanese people teaching japanese language to foreigners at a public university for a living know about how to learn japanese... you probably know more anon.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure he does. Native Japanese know nothing about how it is to be an adult learning their language, and language lecturers are unlikely to be specialists in teaching methodology. They teach because they know the language, not because they know how to learn it.

>>11831952
>language lecturers are unlikely to be specialists in teaching methodology

maybe it could apply to english teachers in japan who are native speakers

but English teachers in England, or German teachers in Germany, or French teachers in France, or Japanese teachers in Japan aren't just teachers because the're native and they know the language - they usually need to have a degree in the language they're teaching and it's usually combined with a degree in teaching - esp. at a university level

The people who become best in their target language are the people who devote absolutely everything to it, to the point of eschewing their own language and culture, not the ones going to Japanese classes.

>>11831971
you have a point

anyway, when you do your vocab decks do you:
- jp -> eng*
- eng* -> jp
- both
?

* - or other language of your choice

I do both, but the cards have been stacking up recently, and since I'm only will consume the jp and not actually speak/write I thought I could cut the daily load by 50%

>>11832247
jp->eng

Eng->JP is always a bad idea because of synonyms, that is unless you're trying to remember vocabulary where there is an official one to one correspondence between English and Japanese.

>>11832247
jp -> jp
Only way to go man.

>>11832247
jp -> jp
I priorize japanese dictionary definitions mainly because they usually explain things much better than the fucking dozens of definitions that rikaisama gives you, making you have no idea whatsoever regarding which one is the right.

>>11832265
I'm nearing native level (far, far past N1) in some aspects of the language and I still use jp -> eng mostly for the odd new word, sometimes with a minimalist indication of correct usage.

>>11832272
Not him but I don't think it's a bad idea to do jp -> en. Hell, even I do en -> native language for certain words, to speed up things, and at this point I'm pretty much fluent in english. The thing is that when you're quite far from native level, it's not a bad idea to force your mind to adapt to a japanese thinking pattern. Instead of associating a direct equivalent of a japanese word in english, you associate an explanation for it. Looks like a better idea for me, though in your case it doesn't really matter since you just need for things to be faster.

Monolingual dictionary definitions are better for verbs and abstract concepts. Bilingual dictionaries are better for common/material things, especially those that require technical language to define.

My decks are jp -> eng, and I think it's better that way. If I already have a good grasp on the meaning, I can just ignore the English definition. If I don't, English is likely to be more concise and easier to read. Whenever I don't trust definitions from jp -> en dictionaries, I double-check a jp -> jp one and write my own.

just curious
surveymonkey com/s/RM5FVJ2
results are after completion, ip not collected

>>11832272
I agree
jp-jp is useful for some things, but many words just have an perfect equivalent in english.

It's especially bad for many nouns
For example:
ネコ科の哺乳類。体長約2.5メートル、尾長1メートル。ふつう全体に黄褐色で、尾の先に暗褐色の房毛をもち、雄にはたてがみがある。アフリカのサバンナに十数頭の群れですみ、共同でシマウマ・レイヨウなどを狩る。インド西部のカチャワル半島の森林の一部にも分布。百獣の王とよばれ、力の象徴とされた

The "雄にはたてがみがある" and the last sentence make it clear that it's about lions, but you have lo read a ton of irrelevant stuff when a simple lion on the back of the card would've been enough.

Is there a good alternative to learning hiragana on my phone other than ankidroid?
I know 4 rows (a,ka,sa,ta) well enough. I can learn one row every 2 days and know it well enough. Ankidroid is a pain because it wants to tell me what to study instead of going by rows.

>>11833892
www.realkana.com
or just grind the shit out of it by writing it or doing an anki deck.

>>11833913
Realkana doesnt work on android, does it?

>>11833917
not that well. Just go to play store and type in hirigana or katakana and download the first 2-5 apps or so and learn it that way

>>11833097
You could always highlight the word so it stands out.

>>11832272
How long did it take you to reach that level and what method of study did you use?

>>11833892
obenkyo
you can select what you are tested on

and there is even that thing where it shows you - ko - and you have to write it

I can't, /jp/, please MOTIVATE me. I want to fuck my procrastination in the ass, but...

Reading through mainichi shinbun articles online it seems like most of the time N3 grammar is enough to be able to read it. I'm studying N2 grammar at the moment and I rarely see grammar points I'm learning come up.

It seems like the thing you need to learn to do is "juggle" long sentences in your head, along with using a dictionary for complex words.

>>11835958
How are you exactly studying N3 and N2 grammar? I plan on taking N3 this year but since there's a whole year for me to study, I think I can deal with N2. I just have no idea where to study for it or how I'm supposed to.

>>11835980
新完全マスター N2
For N3 I just went through tae kim's guide to grammar till the end

>>11835388
4.5 years, of which I've lived here in Japan for 15 months. The main stages I've been through have been:

1) Japanese 101 (first year) - RTK, Tae Kim, Core 6k, first trip to Japan
2) Novice stage (second year) - went through all 20k+ common words in jdict. Two more trips to Japan. Passed JLPT N1.
3) Intermediate stage (third year) - Grind. Two more trips to Japan.
4) Lower advanced stage (fourth year) - Move to Japan and enrol in a Japanese university. Start focusing on business Japanese.
5) Advanced stage (fifth year) - Intern at a large Japanese company and get a job. Start intensely pushing towards native level. Obsessively absorb writing structures and speech patterns and styles into active repertoire. Become indistinguishable from natives online. Start imitating voices in Japanese as a hobby and to improve accent. Become better at expressing feelings and actually having a personality (personalities) in Japanese than native language.
6) End stage (rest of life). Become able to convince natives that I've been living in Japan my whole life. Publish written media in Japanese. Develop a professional Japanese seiyuu level of voice manipulation skill.

Anki, IM chat, anime and reading throughout of course.

Japanese isn't a means to achieve other things for me, it's more of an otaku obsession in itself.

>>11836008
How did you manage to learn so much vocab in such a short time?
I try to do 50 words a day but have a hard time retaining them.

I find it kind of puzzling that so many people get interested in like Kanken level 1 and things like that. Those kinds of things are just a matter of memorization, not skill. There's nothing interesting about that for me.

>>11836008
From what you're implying, the third stage is more than enough for someone to play VNs. But well, you're looking from a point of view where the last stage is being completely fluent and able to speak any sentence whatsoever in japanese. How would you divide the stages for someone whose objective is reading the hardest possible VNs like KKK and similar?

>>11836028
Obsession

Also it was only very superficial J->E learning in the first 2-3 years to expand passive repertoire, so it doesn't take too long. I did 1000 words in a weekend once.

>>11836031
In a way, memorizing more than 6k kanji is a kind of an obsession, and it proves how dedicated you are in the japanese language. I guess it heavily depends on the person.

>>11836037
I already consider myself fluent in a loose sense to be honest. The last stage is to write at a professional level and actually be better at communication than most natives.

>>11836037
I've only ever played one VN in Japanese so I don't know. Sorry. :( But yeah you can start VNs within a year even I'm sure.

>>11836039
Thing is, you could grind that out in half a year if you had enough free time. It's not that amazing.

>>11835879
just keep calm and do your anki, if it's too hard set a daily max limit and don't worry about piling up

>>11832247 and replies
I did J->E and E->J cards, but I noticed that E->J lapse 4x more often than J->E cards, and are the ones that pile up at the end of a rep...

Suspended all E->J for now... I wonder if lack of forcing myself to recall it on the spot will make it harder to remember new ones...
Kinda feel more secure disabling them knowing that only doing J->* worked for >>11836008

btw the surveymonkey thing is also in favor if JP->* (dough with 8 votes it's not really representative)

>>11836057

>Grade 1

>Tests the ability to read and write all 6355 kanji in levels 1 and 2 of JIS X 0208, with their on readings and kun readings
>Requires the ability to use the kanji in sentences and to choose the most appropriate kanji for a given context
>Tests special or unusual kanji readings
>Tests ateji
>Tests knowledge of synonyms and antonyms
>Tests ability to differentiate between homonyms
>Tests special compound words
>Tests complex radicals
>Tests kanji unique to the Japanese language
>Tests classical Japanese proverbs and idiomatic expressions
>Tests place and country names
>Tests the ability to recognize the relationship between modern and ancient or old character forms

Yes, you could probably grind this out in half a year. All those highly educated japs who use Japanese on a day-to-day basis probably fail because they haven't heard of RTK or Anki. For sure.

>>11830227
>100 a day

kek

>>11836222
Who are you bullet-pointing?

>>11836267
probably this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanji_kentei#Grade_1

>>11836008
You're not a novice with 20k words, and if you felt like a novice you didn't actually know 20k words which means your method was likely shitty. Please don't impose your inefficient methods on others.

>>11829382
please stop feeding the troll. this is just sad.

>>11836302
The remainder of his post betrays he has ridiculous standards.

And besides, I know 20k English words according to testyourvocab and I sure feel fluent online, but I still felt like a novice when I actually went to UK and had to learn new words every day. (And don't even get me started on deciphering what the natives say, TV won't prepare you for... that.)

This thread reeks of frustration and bad vibes. Take it easy.

>>11836360
I don't see how it is trolling to say N5 is not hard at all. If you try to justify your lack of skills to pass the easiest JLPT by calling others "troll", you're only fooling yourself.

>>11836265
Pretty much a breeze if you're NEET or have even average willpower

>>11836404
>only does 100 everyday

pleb

>>11836426
suck my cock dude

>>11829651
French, Spanish and Italian are not different languages, Francisco-dono.

>>11836426
>not doing 10000 kanji a day

pleb

>>11836547
I wonder if that's physically possible.

>>11836552
With Anki-kun anything's possible.

>>11836552
No. But it is mentally possible

How do you use WaniKani?
I got a email confirmation, clicked the link and that's it.
They never prompted me for inputing a password etc.
What do

>>11836774
Don't call them, they'll call you.

>>11836774
>How do you use WaniKani?
you don't

>>11836800
How much time should I expect to wait?

I only memorize 30kanji a day.
Are people who say to learn 100 kanji a day trolling or not?

>>11836835
define memorize

>>11836841
Be able to recall it's meaning upon reading.
I don't care about writing anyway.

>>11836848
in that case I guess you can do 100, but that's the point of just having the "meaning" witch will change in compounds?

in case of remembering "meaning"/on/kun and a sample vocab that uses every one on/kun - 30 is VERY impressive

>>11836555
No, I prefer Anki-chan. We're having fun studying together! If you ask her, she can even show you your statistics, no lewd thoughts!

>>11836933
so that's why my bars are getting longer...

>>11836933

>>11836895
Then I must be pretty dumb because I'm only having the "meaning" without on/kun/sample vocab and doing 30 a day is being hard to keep up.
I study around 10-15 minutes per day but I often forget meanings of some of the 30 kanji I did the previous day.
100 sounds too much for me even if it's just the meaning.

>>11837000
>I study around 10-15 minutes per day

You should study more.

why are you attacking us? why did you declare war on /a/?

what's happening?

>>>/a/100865943

>>11837198
We did nothing.
It's only shitposters trying to rile up other boards.
Ignore and report.

Practising japanese with H-manga is great! Of course they tend to have "limited" dialogues but if you need to relax between serious learning sessions..
>>11837198
Did you do your reps?

>>11837198
We take it easy too much to attack /a/

>>11837198

It's those delinquent drug otaku. They're always stirring up trouble. I can tell that it's them by the writing. They get hopped up on their speed pills and start posting modified Hitler speeches and arguing for hours.

So I've finally begun my ascent into learning Japanese. I'm on my second day and know up to the T's. So here's my situation. I can easily tell which phonetic is made for a character when I see one. However I have more difficulty thinking up the character when given a phonetic or Roma-ji equivalent. Does anyone have any advice on how to make it click? Should I just drill it?

>>11837228
Sorry forgot to include I'm learning Hiragana first, not Katakana

>>11837000
100 per day is trolling or genius level. Just find your own pace, as long as it's like at least 5 per day. Although I'd recommend 10 so you'll take less than one year to get to know them all. If you feel like it you can do 20 or something, though. Remember that course students take more than 2 years to learn all of them, so getting to know them in like, 7 months, isn't that much of a bad thing.

>>11836036
I think I had to adopt your obsession when learning Japanese.

You think how well can I spent my time studying Japanese??

I'm going to Japan this years for further studies and this is my plan.

4 years undergraduate program
3 years postgraduate program.
+2 working years in Japan

>>11837238
Lucky, there truly is no better way to gain further experience in a language than to go to the place it's mainly used. I wish I could afford this option myself.

>>11837232

>100 per day is trolling or genius level.

Why genius level? Can't it just be autism level?

It's not that hard to learn, it's just time consuming. An autistic person can pound away for 10+ hours without a problem, but they're hardly geniuses. Just obsessed.

>>11837249
Yeah, you can replace genius by autist, in this case. I just think that it's better for anon to find his own pace rather than trying to do things as fast as possible. I mean, having a good pace is good, but trying to run like crazy and ending up burning yourself isn't a good idea. Because you know, most of the people don't learn 100, or hell, even 50 per day.

>>11837232
Genius/autism level is like 2000 in a day. I think that's near the recorded world record for memorizing German words anyway if I remember correctly.

>>11837260
>2000

Now that's some new type of trolling right there. Why go on the internet and just make lies like that anon?

>>11837242
I would like to master it though.

I did kinda badly on my EJU examination because of obsession in Japanese subject alone.

>>11837263
>Why go on the internet and just make lies like that anon?

Because you can't do anything about it

>>11837242

>Lucky, there truly is no better way to gain further experience in a language than to go to the place it's mainly used.

Throw yourself into an empty room without any objects other than a computer and some Japanese books. Wipe out everything on the computer except Japanese study material and untranslated Japanese games, manga, anime, etc. Arrange for food to be transported to you through a hole in the wall or something like that.

If you enter that room with bag filled with enough amphetamines to take two doses a day then you will be learning at a rate that is at least a dozen times faster than someone who is living in Japan.

Sure, this is a strange scenario, but with isolation, a complete absence of distractions, and amphetamines to ensure that you don't become depressed then you can smash through any language on the planet in record time. People only dedicate a fraction of their time to learning, even when living in a country with a different language, and they never realize what their full potential would be if all of the distractions were gone. This is also definitely much cheaper than living in a different country.

>>11837268
Well that would be an interesting life to be sure. However, I really wouldn't want to give up exercising and my part time job plus other studies. Also getting hooked on amphetamines really doesn't appeal to me.

>>11837268
And of course, don't forgot this.

>>11837268

This is almost identical to my situation right now, but I haven't emptied my room of all the distractions yet. I wish there was an easy way to move everything that I own to a storage container and lock myself in here like some drug fueled monk.

>>11836302
Someone like me back then who's just crammed 20k words into passive memory and only barely passed JLPT1 is a novice by any definition. Novice is not the same as beginner of course. Novices can already read native materials, beginners can't. Maybe I was inefficient, I don't know, but I don't see many other westerners getting much further within 2 years.

I never was recommending or imposing any method anyway.

>>11837268
Pretty much agree with this, lots of foreign people live here and don't really try that hard with the language or trying to integrate into some part of Japanese society, whether online or offline. They end up speaking like a complete foreigner with a stunted vocabulary their whole lives.

>>11826692
yes
learn kun readings, and remember english at the same time, then learn on readings

>>11837303
Also don't forget there are lots of sites like http://atskype.jp/ filled with people looking for Skype friends. You can start your own blog or something for extended writing practice.

You do miss out on some cultural/day to day life things by not being here though.

>>11837326

Are Japanese skype friends nice?

I don't want to be bullied

Is Genki or Japanese the Manga Way better for learning grammar?

>>11837344
I don't make friends with mean people. :>

If you have something in mind about the kind of person you're looking for then you can find lots of really interesting, peculiar people to become friends with.

>>11837326

>http://atskype.jp/

Do any Japanese hikikomori go here or is it mostly just normies who want to practice their English with charismatic Brad Pitt type westerners?

I would like to have an eccentric hikikomori friend. We could play instruments together over skype and do covers of our favorite songs.

>>11836222
Go read blogs of people studying for Kanken 1. Some people do it in about the amount of time I stated. Maybe a year. Everything you just listed is just a matter of memorization.

Kanken 1 has zero relevance to actual Japanese you use in real life, so level of education is irrelevant. Getting a degree doesn't mean you're very intelligent or erudite in this era anyway, since, 50% of Japanese people go to university.

I want to be a bigger faggot /jp/ how do

>>11837447
>50% of Japanese people go to university.
Nice statistic taken out of your ass faggot.
I've heard that not even 20% of the japs go to university.

>>11837466
Well I heard that they don't even have universities in Japan!

>>11837473
they have, it is just that they are irrelevant

>>11837442
This isn't a site for people wanting to practice English, it's a site for people wanting to make normal Japanese Skype friends with natives, so there are all sorts of people. Of course you want to start out on the language exchange sites instead of bothering people who aren't intending to talk to people with broken Japanese. Most people on those are pretty boring but you have to bear with it. I like Japanese girls so it was okay for me.

>>11837466
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/edu_ter_enr-education-tertiary-enrollment

Japan 47.7%.

Why would I be making this up?

>>11837480

>I like Japanese girls so it was okay for me.

Give any girls the virtual D with phone sex?

>New Love Plus +
>Mar 27, 2014

Are you excited for the game of the year?

It won't be long now.

>>11837513

Does that say, "Sorry for making you wait. Hey, look at this" ?

>>11837530
Yes, she is showing you her breasts.

>>11837513

I haven't talked to Rinko in years. She hates me. I know it

>>11837513
is her name takamine?

>>11837000
>Then I must be pretty dumb because I'm only having the "meaning" without on/kun/sample vocab and doing 30 a day is being hard to keep up.
>I study around 10-15 minutes per day but I often forget meanings of some of the 30 kanji I did the previous day.

you're not dumb, people with visual memory tend to have it easier with kanji, maybe try writing them...

anyway you will have to go through all of them again and learn the on reading and the kun reading. If you only want to spend 15 minutes - learn 6kanji/day but really focus on them, and do 2k in a year. Check Basic Kanji Book, maybe that order/example words will help you.

>100 sounds too much for me even if it's just the meaning.

no one said about the 10 minute limit and 99+% retention rate

>>11837513
I played some of the original a while back. It was nice up until speaking into the mic became mandatory.

権利を確認しろ

>>11837596

>until speaking into the mic became mandatory.

Did you feel too shy to tell her that you loved her?

>>11837588

>anyway you will have to go through all of them again and learn the on reading and the kun reading

Won't you just pick up the readings as you go through a vocab deck? I never did a kanji deck yet, but I know that I've memorized a ton of readings without even trying just from hearing them used over and over again with the same kanji.

>>11837611
if it works it works, but then why learn some "meanings", since they would be picked up by the vocab deck as well... rendering the entire endeavor with focusing on kanji a waste of time.

>>11837566
I could only listen to her talk about potato chips so many times before I had to give up. I think love plus made me realize that I don't want a real relationship more than anything else ever has.

>>11837616

>but then why learn some "meanings", since they would be picked up by the vocab deck as well

My visual memory isn't that great. A lot of kanji blur together in my memory and I start to mix them up with similar looking kanji, especially if I mostly see them in compound words. Knowing just the english meanings helps my mind to separate them visually so that I stop mixing them up constantly.

If anything, I found it easier to remember the readings. For some reason that stuck in my mind pretty quick, but I would still be mixing up similar looking kanji for weeks after first seeing them in my vocab deck.

>>11837633
kanji are often created from other kanji, do you know the meaning of all the little parts in the ones that give you trouble? If not maybe the order you are using could be tweaked a little

>>11837622
>I could only listen to her talk about potato chips so many times before I had to give up. I think love plus made me realize that I don't want a real relationship

I don't think love+ is representative of real relationships anon...

>>11837651

Not him, but I've been in both and I can say without a shadow of a doubt that Love Plus is objectively better than the average relationship.

Girls in Love Plus are at least programmed to give the impression that they give a shit about you. Most women don't even bother to pretend that they do. Love Plus girls also won't cuckold you, talk to other men, ignore you for no reason, start having moodswings and screaming at you because they're having their period, etc.

It's just better. I dated a girl for three years and it was hell. You're either depressed, paranoid, or terrified, and it cycles between those three emotions continuously with very brief periods of happiness that are just enough to keep you around. With Love Plus though? Just warm fuzzy feelings, a sense of security and relaxation, and happiness.

>>11837690
Guess this fits you.

>>11837690
It sounds like you're being too dependent. I have no reason whatsoever to believe that my girlfriend of 4 years is going to leave me, but even if she did it's not like there aren't other people about.

>>11837725

>but even if she did it's not like there aren't other people about.

Why invest time in someone if you're not 100% or even 80% sure that they aren't going to turn on you? Women are too volatile and untrustworthy.

Trying to predict the behavior of a woman is impossible because even they can't predict what their turbulent emotions will be like the next day. It's far too much risk for no reward.

>>11837754
Spoken like a true ugly weeaboo.

>>11837754
I'm not investing anything. It's actually saving me time and money by sharing an apartment and chores.

Going by the views of society I'm probably a higher value partner in this relationship so I don't see why I should feel paranoid. I'm more erratic than most women anyway.

If your self esteem is so low that you're worried about being left then either you need to fix that or date someone with equal or worse self esteem.

>>11837899

>If your self esteem is so low that you're worried about being left

It has less to do with them leaving and more to do with worrying about what they're going to take when they leave.

You can get into a relationship, get a good job and build a good life for yourself purely because of your own hard work, become very successful, and depending on if you've been with her long enough for things like common law marriage to set in, then she could just rob you of almost everything that you spent so much time working for.

It's a terrifying thought. Has very little to do with self-esteem though. Women are just able to take too much from you if they decide to hit the road. They're like thieves and you will never be sure when/if they will strike, so you constantly have to spend your life living in fear because there's no way to know if she's ever going to make her move.

Alternatively though, I can throw my DS out the window and Rinko isn't going to take a thing from me.

>>11837940
I can also leave a woman and leave her as a lonely, economically vulnerable single mother with little prospects of finding another nice husband to support them. That's at least as much of a hurtful thing to do, than robbing a man of some of his wealth.

I really get tired of this discussion. The kind of situation you describe represents a very small proportion of married couples. You may as well just avoid going outside in case you get run over by a bus.

>>11838000
>I can also leave a woman and leave her as a lonely, economically vulnerable single mother
Where she siphons your money and holds your child hostage? Yeah fucking right, especially with no fault divorces.
>robbing a man of some of his wealth.
>some
>some
Not "some" with both alimony and child support.
>represents a very small proportion of married couples. You may as well just avoid going outside in case you get run over by a bus
Marriages are at a 50% divorce rate now. 70% of the time it's initiated by the woman. One has far far less than a coin toss's chance of getting hit by a bus.

>>11837228
Drill it by writing it.

>>11837000
>I often forget meanings of some of the 30 kanji I did the previous day.
That's completely normal and is why you have times (eg. 10 times) more review cards than new cards every day. Keep reviewing them and you'll find out they stick after a few days.

Uhhh, am I crazy or is this a typo that has been allowed to persist for years?

If anyone is interested, here is quite recent research article about Japanese language students' attitudes towards mnemonic based study methods for learning kanji.

DL link for the pdf:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/9261tl

Abstract:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1540-4781.2013.12040.x/abstract

RTK mentioned.

>>11838023
Women who are actively looking to marry men for the purpose of stealing their wealth are like one in a hundred.

>Marriages are at a 50% divorce rate now.
The majority of people are idiots, so what. I don't interact with such people. It's more like 1/4 where I live anyway.

>70% of the time it's initiated by the woman.
And most domestic violence/aggression is initiated by men.

>>11838654
good find

>>11838023
You're back-peddling. 70% of women aren't looking to rob you; fucking idiot. You're also committing intellectual dishonestly by twisting data to support a viewpoint that it doesn't. I'm pretty sure 90% of beatings are initiated by men. That doesn't mean if you're a cute neet girl you should avoid men because you have a "90% chance" of being beat.

Stop making shit up to rationalize being celibate not by choice.

>>11838660
>And most domestic violence/aggression is initiated by men.
This is actually not true, it's about even for most types of domestic violence.

this has nothing to do with anki btw

>>11837357
>Is a real text book or a cash cow for 'i liek anime highschoolers' better?
That's my impression at least. I don't have experience with the latter

>>11838023
>>11838660

can you two both go fuck off to /r9k/, thanks

>>11838693
At least you recognize your ignorance.

>>11838693
But both of them are "a cash cow for 'i liek anime highschoolers'"

>>11838643
Why don't you send him an email and ask him to reprint them all.

>>11838714
Considering JtMW has no high school material you're wrong.

>>11839388

>JtMW

But it's more advanced than genki.

who dares to defy DJT

>>11842654
てめえの痴女母の口マンコに俺のをぶち込んでやるぜ

How so you all avoid burning out/stay motivated? I was learning the kana,grammar then kanji/vocab and after a month I couldn't be bothered to start anki or look at my notes

>>11843189

Amphetamines and a timer application on my computer that helps me channel my focus onto my studies.

I set it for an hour, do as much as I can until it beeps, set it for 25 minutes and stretch/look at /jp/ until it beeps, set it for another hour and study as much as I can, another 25 minute break, and I do this until the second dose of pills has worn off and then I go to sleep. It usually totals at about 8 or 9 hours of studying each day, depending on how long the pills last.

Medicine is nice because you don't need to worry about burning out or feeling motivated. It makes the difference between studying and doing something fun feel almost indistinguishable, so boredom or motivation never become a problem.

>>11843209
shame I can't get amphetamines in UK though. Any good (well acceptable) alternatives?

>>11843236

Maybe lots of coffee or some other kind of stimulant. Not sure how effective it would be since I've never tried it before. I was never very interested in stimulants until I got a prescription, so I don't have any experience with what large amounts of caffeine feels like.

It would probably make it easier to focus, but I don't know if it has that "make everything feel interesting" effect that amphetamines have.

>>11843236

If you can't even manage a month without quitting then you will never learn Japanese. Don't try to fool yourself or look for shortcuts.

>>11843346
not trying to look for shortcuts, I would love to acomplish something that I would find useful/ other people find interesting. I just can't work on that thought alone so I end up just doing nothing at all. Need something other than self motavation

>>11843379

Then you won't learn Japanese

>>11843189
this is me on a good day

you're a pussy

>>11843250
You might be on to something with the stimulant angle. I drink 3 cups of weak tea during my daily 3 hours of Japanese studies. I find they provide a nice pause within which I am sufficiently able to unwind.

goodnight thread