/jp/ - Otaku Culture

I don't wanna.

>>11696044
you hafta

>>11696044
I DIDN'T ASK YOU IF YOU WANTED TO.
DO IT.

How many new cards you guys do per day? I just started with the core 6k deck and figured 30 would be good, right?

damn /jp/ i don't want too

>>11696055
Changes based on how busy I am, but I'd optimally be doing 100 vocab a day

>>11696055
However many words I get from what I read. I used to do anywhere from 100 to 200+ but now I rarely get to add 50 a day.

30 words per day is 10,950 words per year. That's pretty good. If you're aiming for educated adult native level then you're looking at something like 50,000, but that's a long ways off and not something you have to worry about right now.

>>11696878
I'm only aiming for high school dropout JAV star level.

>>11696886
Learn chinese and korean then.

I only want to study when my apartment is clean. The last time I cleaned was three months ago...

I do wanikani instead LOL

>>11696911
i tried it today, but I'm confused about their radicals:
ハ - fins (8)
丿 - slide
etc

and then they quiz you on it. ok, i can learn these, but as far as i know they pulled these names out of their ass. why would i learn wanikani-japanese, if my goal is japanese-japanese.

>>11700668
Oh wow. Why would they even do this? Those aren't even unique, it's just ha and no, for fucks sake.

>>11700668
this was my problem with wanikani

What the absolute fuck? I thought it was a troll so I went back to anki, which is 1000 times more useful.

>>11700668
>>11700744
>>11700827
The radicals are merely used for mnemonics which help memorize kanji / vocab later.
They did pull those names out of their ass, but its not like you are going to read ハ as fins... it's just a tool for memorization. Either way, because of the radicals and their method of approach I've been able to memorize way more efficiently than Anki method.
Anki is just flashcards.

>>11700865
You don't need mnemonics past about 700 kanji.

>>11700876
What a coincidence, I just passed 700 kanji today. Not sure if I'll drop mnemonics, though, since I learn kanji by writing them and thus I don't review them very often.

>>11700879
How long did it take you to learn those with wanikani? What else are you studying?

>>11700945
Ah, I'm using Kanji Damage in fact. And besides kanji, I guess I review grammar once in a while, and constantly add words to my vocab deck. I do 10 kanji per day, so it took 2 months and 1 week more or less.

>>11700827
I liked what I did of Wani. It was like Anki, except you didn't have to set anything up! A feature I enjoyed since some of the decks on Anki that required both sound and pictures were hard to set up (well, at least I couldn't do it).

I think I got up to level four or five and then quit, because I have no willpower. But I still think it's a good piece of software!

>>11700976

I quit at level 10. I was no match for the alicrab.

>>11700985

Maybe I'll go through it for fun today.

>>11700988
Oh wowoow is this what I think it is? Fuuuuucking hope so because this is why I kinda stopped.

>>11700998
Shit! It is. Aww shit, now I can use heisig primitive names.

Wanikani devs still don't have pace propaganda yet?

>>11700865

I think I will stick with my hand made "basic kanji book" in anki

>>11701011

Ah, it doesn't work, I'm getting raped. I'm just too far in RTK to override the reading menomics to make any sense. This feature should have been here a lot sooner nonetheless.

wanikani is pretty good
remember that you can't learn without spending money

>>11701231
You also can't learn by going faster than the speed wanikani forces on you. Any faster would surely ruin you later on and is definitely not a ploy to keep people subscribed to wanikani for longer periods of time.

bumping for justise

>>11696878
50,000 is too high. I reached native level after about 30,000.

>>11709831
You're not actually at a native level.

>>11709894
How do you know? Show me your Anki deck with >50,000 cards.

And I meant native level vocabulary to be specific.

>>11709935
Where did I claim to have 50k cards? I'm just going off of basic statistics. I'm sure you have a native-like vocabulary in the things you read, but you're not on the level overall of someone who was born and raised in Japan.

>>11696055
>How many new cards you guys do per day?
I don't even have the fucking stuff installed.

Talking about anki, we should ask the programmers in the /jp/ project and/or artists of the OC thread to just make a Patchouly version of it. I'm pretty sure it'd be a good motivation factor then.

>>11696085
100 new vocab?

>>11710185
Probably, since Anon was asking about new cards. It's not even necessarily effort or time intensive. I do speed recognition reviews so the 200 new + X reviews I did when I started never went more than an hour.

I'm too lazy. Give me some motivation... A begger bey you, jp.

>>11710178
this seems doable

>>11710165
I often come across situations where I know a word where the other person doesn't. It's not that hard to reach native level.

>>11710382
That doesn't mean you're at a native level.

How do you define native level? Same as a university graduate?

Please post some good vocab and kanji cards. I'm using something from 2009 and afraid there are some better cards.

>>11710444
The ones that you make by yourself.

>>11710444
Make your own. Use Rikai, sub2srs and/or epwing2anki.

>>11710438
You can't be native if you're not native. Never delude yourself, natives can tell.

I've lived in Japan quite a while and rarely come across vocabulary I haven't seen before. If I do it's of the literary type which a lot of natives won't know. There is no way the average native knows 50,000 distinct words unless you're counting compounds of smaller words.

>>11710451
You probably talk to non-native English speakers on the web every day without realizing it.

>>11710457
Every single time I see someone misusing "your" and "you're" I know it's non-native English speaker.

>>11710458
Your wrong too.
Yes.

>>11710454
http://www.gamedesign.jp/flash/yojifla/yojifla.html
I'm sure you can get through this then

>>11710458
I have to say in my experience it's the opposite. Foreigners pay close attention to basic rules like that but get other more complicated things wrong.

>>11710458
What a dull mistake. Is this some kind of meme?

>>11710457
I'm 11710451 and I'm actually a non-native English speaker.

>>11710458
I'd say it's actually more common in native english speakers, because the pronunciation makes you fuck up. If you're pronunciation was sketchy, you'd never make this mistake.

>>11710469
>If you're pronunciation

>>11696055
Just do as many as you can handle. Having said that, 30 is a good amount and any more will be though. It takes (afaik) a few weeks before the amount of daily due cards reaches its maximum, so you can't judge the appropriateness of your new cards setting on just a few days basis.

>>11696055
Depends on your free time and how much you want to put effort on one card.

Voca deck can be done with 100 cards per day if you just glance them. But like me, I analyze and type every sentence, because I still might make some stupid mistakes and accidentally learn wrong, so I do 30 per day. + 30 kanji new on rtk. On these parameters it takes about 2 hours per day. Find the most suitable tactic for you.

Yesterday finished 2000 word vocabulary deck and 55 % are on mature status. I need to find or make new voca deck now but I am lazing today.

Are people actually using premade decks? Isn't the whole purpose to read material you like and then add the words you didn't understand and thus you have a context you are likely to remember for them?

>>11710462
meh

4jijukugo aren't that difficult, there's a shared deck of of over 3000 on Anki.

>>11700876
Lies. You need mnemonics for a looong time, though for simple and/or very common kanji, such as many JLPTN1 kanji, you may notice the need for mnemonics drop away quite soon (anything from a few months to a year?).

yesterday was the first day that i did not do my reps, did not sleep the night before b/c of the neighbors.

i beg your forgiveness /jp/

>>11710489
I never used mnemonics at all ever. Just went through the book ignoring the stories in around 40 days.

>>11710502
by the book I meant RTK

>>11710496
me on the left

>>11710487
I use premade decks because have have translation sentences included. If I had started straight with my own decks, over half of the cards would probably had incorrect translation.

>>11710476
>maximum
What are you talking about? Is it the default review limit? Reviews pile up the more you add and the more you have trouble with. A very rough estimate is that you'll get 10 times within a year if you keep doing a constant amount of new cards everyday.
>>11710480
Being careful in your studies is good but you might be overdoing it. You have plenty of chances to correct yourself while using native materials. I'm not telling you how you should study, I'm just saying that you might want to consider alternative ways of doing it.

Thank you /jp/! I will retake my japanese studies, you inspired me.
I stopped 1 year ago at 1500 kanji in heisig. I know the basics of grammar and like 500? 1000? vocab, so I'm just a babby, but I'll do my best. I want to finish heisig so I can start drilling vocab. I must do my reps everyday, and I will do a grammar lesson everyday too.
I will start tomorrow!

Personally I don`t like core 2k\6k, the theme looks like a old japanese textbook, in every moment and in every phrase you feel like you are in the 80`s listening to a conversation between mr.Smith and Mr.Tanaka while they eat sushi in front of the mont fuji. I prefer 8547 日本語文法辞典 the grammar and context is more varied although nothing bets a real personal deck made for and by yourself

>>11710539
>nothing bets a real personal deck made for and by yourself
sorry, I read that as ``a real personal dick'' and couldn't stop laugh

>>11710496
You're fucked. Good luck getting through all the reps anki will throw at you today and in the next couple of days.

Anki being a bitch is the only reason I do my reps every single day, even if I feel like absolute shit.

>>11696055
I do 30 a day but sometimes I skip days.

>>11710532
You don't need Heisig

>>11710572
It helps quite a bit when doing vocab I think, because I tried doing some reps as a test and it was way easier to memorize the words with kanji I knew from heisig that the ones I didn't. Way easier.
I think it's a bit terrible because heisig in a vacuum is completely useless, but if I finish it I'll do the rest better. It's like grinding a lot of slimes to breeze through the boss with a couple hits.

I know Heisig is not necessary, after all, most people learn japanese successfully without it.

>>11710572
Of course not, but it makes things easier.

>>11710496
>picture
Great, now I want to watch some old samurai and karate movies. We need a glorious website for this.

>>11710532
>I stopped 1 year ago at 1500 kanji
Why the fuck do people quit when they're already that far? I don't get it.

>>11710587
>most people learn japanese successfully without it

For 18 years of constant immersion including 12 years of school.

>>11710532
Never put off until tomorrow what can be done today.

>>11710605
>12 years
That really puts things into perspective. I still feel perplexed dismay when I see folks who've spent 5 years and have yet to go beyond textbooks though.

>>11710607
I wish I could actually follow this... I've spent 3 weeks in november doing pretty much nothing regarding japanese studies, and I just started back 2 days ago. I still feel kinda unmotivated, but I don't stop because I know that if I do, it'll be even worse. I'm a bit desperate, though. I feel like I have a good grasp at grammar, but my vocab sucks really hard. I've already tried those vocab decks, but I kept running into kanji I didn't know, and felt even less compelled to actually finish the deck, since I was learning kanji at the same time. I just can't find an effective way of learning vocab for me. Since my knowledge of grammar and kanji is much higher than my vocab, I feel like my studies are completely unbalanced at the moment, and kinda lost my direction.

>>11710615
Just study what you don't understand and be as particular as you need to. You're a whining faggot who probably just doesn't want Japanese enough though, but if you're not then try timeboxing.

Never put off for an hour what can be done right now.
A rep here and then is 8382 in a month.

I'm going to Japan in a few weeks so my motivation is extremely high right now.

>>11710737
How can a NEET like you afford it!?

Which shared decks does /jp/ recommend, apart from creating my own?

>>11710761
My mom and stepdad are paying for it.

I'm staying with my online girlfriend so free lodging and pussy :3

>>11710811
If know kana and basic grammar.

https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/2032035930
or
https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/4221416043

But remember flashcards don't get you far. Look for some real Japanese media and start reading it.

>>11710178
If you explain more of what that would entail I might do it.

>>11710851
flashcards do get you far

>read Japanese media
>add new words to deck

I do this everyday

Namasensei teaching osaka-ben!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIM4G-4kBA8

Haven't touched them for over 6 months now. And I feel like shit for not doing them.
I'll probably have to restart from the beginning to redrill everything into my head, but the thought of doing that shit all over again makes me feel like putting them off for another day. So I tell myself, "I'll restart learning tomorrow."
I've been saying that for the past few months now.

>>11710823
How do i into online Japanese girlfriend?

>>11710919
It'll be relearning, so it'll be faster and easier. Instead of actually learning it, it'll just come back to you after a while. You should start today!

The only progress I got it's with the listening decks.

>>11710905
I always thought this guy is cool. He isn't the best teacher out there though.

>>11710930
learn Japanese

>>11710919
I stopped doing reps midway through the semester when I got scared of going to class. I tried to start again a week ago and it wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it would be. The whole point of Anki is to make you remember things long-term, after all.

>>11710905
I liked the Iran part

I have no issue doing reps but my grammar is shit and I don't ever read so whatever grammar I know is slowly deteriorating.

>>11711204
Well then go and read genki/tae kim/japanese the manga way you fag

>>11711239
I've been meaning to go through Genki for a little more practice, finished Tae Kim, don't really like Japanese the Manga Way. I have no one to blame except for myself. The most I read in a day is like 5 pages of Yotsuba and get annoyed at how slow I'm reading and stop. Something about taking 1-2 minutes to read a page of manga is really frustrating for babbys such as myself.

>>11711261
It's taking me like 5 minutes a page for One Piece right now.

>>11711261
>>11711288
Damn it you guys. I can't even remember if I've ever been like you. I mean it definitely makes sense, but I can't remember. Just keep at it.

>>11711303
your vocabulary must be close to native level then

>>11710905
You can stop trying to advertise your channel now. Your pronunciation is shit.

>>11711308
this

if you want to learn a certain dialect then find some Japanese people from that region

my girlfriend is from Osaka so I have to listen to that shit all day

>>11711303
It's pretty demotivating man. I know the only thing I can really do is to keep reading and improve little by little, but something about me is making me hesitate. It's as if I think I can just do Kanji/Vocab reps, read about grammar, and then magically understand whatever I want.

Something like 「二ヶ月書くのが危険だけど一つの名作くらい書きたい 」 is about as complex of a sentence that I can understand and I wouldn't really say I fully understand it, just get the gist of it.

>>11711313
My girlfriend is also from Osaka, but she is so young that it turns that I know more Japanese than her.

>>11710496

Hara-kiri/Seppuku is such a great movie. I'm writing a paper on it as we speak.

>>11711336
ur fucked m8

2678 cards due.
What do.

>>11711322
>it turns out that I know more Japanese

I kind of know this feel. Sometimes I'll go through my flashcards with her and sometimes there will be words she doesn't know

Don't you have to pay to use wanikani?

>>11711353
yeah, don't bother with it

>>11711353
Seeing them trying so hard to promote on here is kinda amusing.

>>11711353
It's kind of like Anki for dummies. The main appeal I saw in it is that it gave you both Kanji and Vocab. Since it's structured you don't have to worry about running into Vocab that you don't yet know the Kanji for. It's decent enough but I don't think the benefits are worth the price. Maybe if it were cheaper.

>>11711360
The thing is I've heard good things about the site and its interface is nifty, but I'm sure as hell not paying.

>>11711365
What good things? The color theme hurts my eyes.

How do you effectively add new cards to your deck? I copied new words notepad while playing eroge on and then added them to Anki with checking the rikaichan. But adding 184 cards took me almost 2 hours (kanji version, kana version and English) . It seems really ineffective.

>>11711380
see >>11710449
I use rikai to mine as I read, with it I just press a button and it's saved into a txt file I can import.

>>11711380
I put all my new words into google translate and then use rikaichan to type in the definitions

>decide I want to learn Japanese
>learn Kana in two days
>start working on kanji and vocab
>feel I have a good enough base
>try to read something simple
>everything is in fucking kana
Fuck. I learned most of my words in their Kanji equivalent so it's hell trying to figure out what word is used, where one words ends and another starts, what is grammar and not part of a word, etc.

>>11711397
Use rikaichan or jparser.

Google translator parses, but I don't really recommend it.

>>11711380
>It seems really ineffective.

It doubles up as practice. If you want to add new words in batch without reviewing them, simply use existing decks.

>jp
>girlfriends
Am I being rused?

>>11711425
/jp/ is a normiehaven now, like every other place on the internet.

Maybe you should try one of those /jp/ offshoots.

>>11710605
That's because they are learning linguistic skills for the first time. To think that you need anywhere near as much time to pick up a second language no matter what method is just wrong plain and simple.

>>11711449
Learning a new language after your teenage years is pretty hard though.

>>11711451
"no"

>>11711420
I've been trying to do that but most of what I'm reading is scans so the best thing I have is like KanjiTomo. I recently swapped to Rikaisama as well.

>>11711453
Then why do most US citizens speak only one language?

>>11711467
Unique/atypical historical and geopolitical situation

>>11711467
>US
Because most US citizens are idiots.

>>11711467
Most US citizens can't even get a decent score in TOEFL.
If they can't into their native languages, how can they learn other?

>>11711471
No, less than half are.

>>11711477
Koko the gorilla has an IQ of about 70-95 for reference

>>11711476
The average IQ in the US is 98. People who are of average intelligence and above are the minority.

>>11711477
That's misleading. The average IQ for white males in the US is above 100, it's non-whites who are bringing it down. If it was racially pure like some east-asian countries the average would be respectable.

>>11711477
Americans ironically believe in IQ. This just prove how idiot they are.

>>11711483
Thanks for your input, /pol/. Nobody said anything about race, or sex. You said US citizen.

>>11711457
If scan has kana only text, just type it on some text field and check it with rikaichan.

That's how I translated manga chapters when I started, first I typed all possible text from scans to computer text and then analyzed it with the rikaichan.

>>11711487
Many of the people who have their IQ tested and contribute towards the average aren't actually legal citizens.

>>11711491
sage

>>11711491
I bet far more mexican immigrants are bilingual than suburban whites.

To those who haven't been doing reps for weeks/months: start reading random bullshit already even if you don't understand it - I honestly think words stick faster that way, in the long run, better than doing nothing at least. This is coming from an inconsistent bitch who has a habit of spending months at a time doing nothing, has always had a serious problem with anki, is probably ADHD and is now apparently capable of reading le eroge. (Also from my experience, not doing Heisig doesn't mean you're fucked, it just means it'll take you maybe a year - barring the months in which i haven't done shit of course - to learn the joyou instead of a few months, or something, along with the basic vocabulary necessary to actually read some stuff at something other than a snail's pace. Of course you'll be slower but you'll still eventually get there if you really want to, and i really don't know who could say otherwise. Probably beats doing nothing at all anyway, which was kinda my point). Also, well someone already said it, but average native vocabulary definitely isn't 50000 words (it probably isn't in any language honestly).

>>11711503
ADHD isn't real, you're just a faggot

How do you become a normal human being again after you've made an habit of procrastinating absolutely every activity including but not limited to eating and peeing?

>>11711514
Slow but steady steps.

>>11711514
what you lack is a strong Japanese spirit.

>>11711503
It's less than 50000. 50000 is a high degree of literacy.

The problem is in knowing the right words, necessary for everyday life, instead of hundreds of specialized terms related to each of your favorite fetishes.

>>11711505
Thanks i already knew it since i'm not murrikan

>>11711505
No bully!

The only thing hard about learning Japanese is handwriting Kanji and grammar. Even then grammar isn't all that hard and unless you plan on living in Japan you don't need to memorize how to write all those kanji.

>>11711738
I find memorizing how to write them helps me learn them better, that might just be me though.

>>11711505
No bully!

(this isn't "/b/ shit" you fucking janitor, if you aren't regular then don't stick your pussy in this)

>>11711738
Handwriting kanji revolves about a few simple composition rules and a handful of recurring elements, of which there are A LOT fewer than the actual kanji. If you pick any 300 random kanji, they'll contain most of the frequently used elements. The only hard part about handwriting is getting started and people who complain about it probably never did.

>>11711748
I don't think that's just you. Also i found recognizing kanji to be on a different order of "difficulty" than grammar, which is honestly pretty easy peasy and mostly a matter of immersion, while the other entails a fuckload of memorization, definitely moreso than languages which don't use ideograms and such (like, well, almost every other language i think). Anyway If you ask me the most difficult thing is actually being constant about it and delaying gratification, which i suppose goes for anything long-term anyway.

>>11711505
No bully!

>>11711738
It will be a challenge, every day. I'm at 700+ kanji and I'm still not used to writing. I write each one of them 40 times, and I still find it a chore to go through. But some of them end up so good looking that I can forgive the effort required to go through them. Besides, you may actually start liking kanji throughout your journey. I at least prefer them much more ever since I decided to write them.

>>11711852
I honestly don't get how you can write each kanji 40 times (I always thought that's a troll). I stopped writing them out after I was about 100, maybe 200 kanji in (and even then I wrote them out at most 5 times), since I started recognizing patterns (refer to >>11711795) and it just seemed like a waste of time. Maybe my retention rate would be up a couple percent had I kept writing every kanji out alongside with its keyword, but I don't think it would be worth the time.

Kudos for your determination though.

>>11711844
Stop posting that image.

>>11711505
Wow, so mean. /jp/ is a Bully Free Zone in case you didn't know, you meanie

>>11711889
Well, I wasn't going to post it again for today, because, why would I?
But I apologize if that picture upset you in any way.

Jani stop bullying me, you're the one breaking the rules!

>>11711878
Here's a sample page of my notebook. I write 40 times because two lines are exactly 40 squares. It makes it look more organized. Also I think I do it more because it became a routine than it's actual usefulness.

>>11711983
Oops forgot my pic.

>>11711983
Forgot the picture, sorry.

>>11711986
That... Looks really nice. How many new kanji do you do per day and how much time does it take you to write them all out?

>>11712022
10 per day, which totallizes 400. Depends on their difficulty. If it's stuff like 一、二、三, it takes like less than 1 hour. But when I end up with 躍, 締 or 機, I may take 1 hour and a half to 2 hours. Once in a while I extend the amount I write so I can finish a group that contains a certain radical. Also, the order I'm using is from Kanji Damage.

>>11711986
That looks horrible

KD fucking sucks. It's one thing to have bad mnemonics, but it is an entirely different matter to have every single one packed with an obnoxiously awful sense of humor.

>>11712060
Only retards use KD, real NEET use Heisig

>>11712060

Should have gone Heisig.

>>11712043
That is insane amount of dedication. I am pretty sure I couldn't do that. For reference, just about a month ago I finished KD+ deck some anon made, doing 20 new kanji per day, which on average I would say took me ~10 minutes (disregarding reps, of course).

>>11712060
I ignored the mnemonics completely, and I'm pretty sure that most of the people that actually do KD do the same.

>>11712060
I liked the Eazy-E ones, but it is pretty terrible when he writes "This one is 'dry' and 'organ'. Think of your own damn mnemoic." Just leave the space blank if you're going to do that.

>>11712060
Is the guy who made it a nigger or a wigger, I couldn't tell

>>11712064
>>11712067
I found Heisig to be pretty dumb. I ended up just going grade order and making up my own mnemonics.

日

I think it's pretty dumb they made the sun into square. Drawing a circle is damn easier (which is what it used to be drawn as).

>>11712054
So far, to all native japanese speakers that have seen my writing, I've been met with positive feedback. My objective isn't to do something that looks nice anyway, but actually repeat kanji enough times so I can memorize them. How good it looks is just a secondary worry. If you do have any tips for me to improve the handwriting though, it would be helpful, considering the only guideline I follow is the jisho stroke order.

>>11712068
I don't even know how I can do it considering I used to use the KD anki deck. But that shit was awfully annoying because every single card had a duplicate for the sake of memorizing the reading AND the meaning of the kanji. It doubled the amount of work for pretty much nothing. Besides, I find it much easier to open a notebook and look at the kanji I forgot instead of separately searching for it in the website.

>>11712151
Here's a tip, when they say 凄い日本語！！！
It's not a compliment.

>>11712164

You don't have to be so mean to him, jeez

>>11712164
凄い - rikaichan definition
>terrile; dreadful; amazing; great;

I just don't know anymore...

>>11712164
that's a lot more genuine than 日本語が上手ですね

>>11712164
Davido-kun video made it unforgettable for me

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1esrBKPRuo

>>11712164
>not すごい
Don't be that guy

>>11712135
But circles aren't stackable, I hate them.

>>11713779
patent pending*

>>11712135
It is actually often written into a circle when handwriting fast

>>11713789
Only upwards, if you make several columns you're wasting space. It's impractical as fuck.

>>11713828
In what direction did you want to "stack"?

>>11713836
Stacking goes upwards, but what if you want to make multiple stacks?

>>11712362
what an obscure kanji lol

>>11712259
It has bad meaning only when used in sarcasm

I did my reps today, feels good. They only thing that bothers me is that I learned to read a difficult language and the only thing I do with it is read non-h touhou doujin-shi

>>11714021
You can read other things.

Make Japanese friends?

>>11714021
Probably because you can't actually read a difficult language, you can just read the basics and can't progress passed porn.

>>11714059
>can't progress passed porn.
A I don;t read porn and B I am passed porn in my opinion. I can do all the standard weeaboo shit without a tl. That doesn't mean I am proficient, or even passably good. This is more lamenting that I don only one thing with my free time.

>>11714054
I can't even make american friends.

Saying 七時 is really a tongue twister.

>>11714115
Twist your tongue around this.
*whips out dick*

>>11711986
Heh my notebook is so messy compared to yours.

On otherhand I am writing just to remember the shapes. I believe I'll never write Japanese.

>>11714115
place the emphasis on the chi

>>11714021
You should try getting into anime or manga.

Or if you live in Gensokyo only, the music.

>>11714141
That is horrible. Please stop writing like that and just do the shapes with your finger in the air.

>>11714178
No bully.

>>11714202

School won't let me...

>>11714141
What are these even supposed to be? 反?

>>11714211
Probably that "R"

>>11714205
Do you think your funny kid? I was posting here before you so you can't just copy me and expect to be funny.

>>11714218
I'm stealing all your images.

>>11714211
斤

>>11714225
>>11714216
Okay, I feel like I made a fool out of myself here.

>>11714219
steal THIS
*unzips dick*

had 3 cards in a row marked as leech today because I guess I missed them too much in the past,
the very next card was actually バカ

I think anki is trying to tell me something

>>11714460
Why would you add a card as バカ and not 馬鹿?

>>11714501
My vocabulary deck right now is entirely composed of things as introduced in Tae Kim's guide, and that's how it was presented. I did think it was a little strange that it would be written in katakana though when I added it

>>11714532
Just use Rikai

>>11714532
>Tae Kim

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but..

>>11714574
Is it THAT bad? What is the best alternative for basic grammar?

>>11714581
It's good, don't listen to him.

>>11714584
docchi dayou?!

>>11714581
A real textbook. Like, any of them in any of the bookstores around the world.

>>11714584
Says the beginner who probably has no idea.

>>11714590
You're just trying to make him waste money with a shitty textbook. Tae Kim works fine.

>>11714595
Okay Mr. N5.

>>11714601
Oh come on. You're venting because you found N5 that hard?

>>11714607
You forgot your #rekt hashtag.

>>11714581
Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar

>>11714610
How reliable is that dictionary? Sometimes I feel like Tae Kim's explanations are too short or he tries too hard to explain concepts that would be better dealt with by more technical details.

>>11714574
What wrong with Tae Kim?

>Learning grammar from "Grammar" books
kek

>>11714628
that dictionary series if pretty good

there are a lot of example sentences

People who's first foreign language is Japanese do everything so horribly wrong.

>>11714697
Americans are just naturally stupid.

>>11714628
If anything it's too technical for what most people are looking for. And as a first exposure it's not great because it is a dictionary and therefore unordered. But if you have the very basics it's fine.

>>11714740
If you find DOBG hard to follow you should just fucking give up.

>>11714697
Right, I better learn 2-3 other languages first to make it easier.

>>11714697
bitch please.learning languages is about constant trial and error..obviously after covering the basics

>>11715250
He's saying it's the learning you do wrong, not the language.

Shift + S on anki to see stats, please post yours.
I plan to do 50 per day this christmas vacation until 3000, so 8 more days

>>11716255
some of the deck

>>11716255
me again >>11710496

How do guys remember ALL of the readings for kanji? Some of them have so many.

>>11716297
You only need to learn the most important ones. And they're like 2 at max.

>>11716297
I tackle them one by one either through a word that uses a reading or moving on to the next once the previous is familiar.

Joyou.

Good or bad place to start?

>>11716325
I can't even describe how dumb someone must be to start through non-general kanji or jinmeiyou. So the answer is: The only place you can start (unless you're thinking if you should start kana or jouyou kanji, in which the former is what you should do).

>>11716332
kana is overrated

learn chinese first

>>11716325

Do you mean starting from nothing? Fuck no, that's retarded and impossible. You obviously learn kana first.

>>11716344
>>11716332
I meant starting there after learning kana and beginning kanji.

Sorry about that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqEJlkjBxE4
This dude's been in Japan for over 20 years and can barely read the newspaper headlines. Study more /jp/

>>11716258
>筆おろし

why learn words like this?

>>11716377
But he conduct high level conversations in Japanese which is something 99% of people learning Japanese on 4chan can't do.

>>11716430
Maybe he hopes to lose his virginity to an older woman?

>>11716435

a word like that really shouldn't be in a deck that has days of the week in it

>japanese girlfriend invites a friend to our Skype call
>goes into heavy osaka-ben
>can barely understand anything anymore

fuck

>>11716529
>Osaka-ben.

I wanted to actually learn Osaka-ben first for some reason. I'm kind of glad that I didn't though.

http://4chanint.wikia.com/wiki/Japanese

is this actually a good way of learning Japanese?
Got Hiragana and Katakana down, but it's about now where the resources I use become more important.

>>11716866
the only way to learn a language is to expose yourself enough to the language such that you start internalizing the grammar and vocab

>read simple grammar explanations to introduce yourself to basic grammar
>add words you see for the first time in an anki deck (no matter what level you're at)
>read raw manga or whatever you want alongside a translation in order to better understand grammar and sentence structure
>watch anime or whatever you like for listening practice, making use of both japanese and english subtitles
>talk to Japanese people (or find a Japanese girlfriend like I did)

there is no magic way

>>11716440
It can be. Maybe it's the first time he saw that kanji or reading. When I had an anki deck I would add anything with a new reading for a kanji (or a new kanji of course).

>>11716529
>>11716538
Is there a video I can watch with a native comparing standard japanese with osaka-ben and possibly other dialects?

I always love watching them and listening to the various nuances between them.

So many kanji.
Such difficulty.
Much hard.
wow

>>11717421
>>>/reddit/

>>11716255
my stats
The large amount of mature cards in the 2 month range (and the resulting higher number of young and failed mature cards is because I recently screwed around with the database to basically transplant the stats from the old core6k deck onto the new core10 one while rescheduling everything to between 1 and 40 days)

>>11717422
So angry
Why
Much fear

>>11716529
Osaka-ben is fucking easy, you just have to exchange desu with ya and say some nandeyanen randomly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=va3QCXWX0oM

do them

>>11717396
What is "standard japanese"?

>>11710737
I went for a month. Did not know any Japanese and got on great with the locals.

So many qt 3.14s

>>11696030
Anki is literal torture. Fuck that damn thing.

>>11717785
Tokyo-ben, perhaps?
Being the capital and the highest concentration of people in the country must throw it some weight.

I'm doing japanese core 2k on step 3 right now. is this a good idea or a bad idea?

>>11717882
step 3 should be step 9 or something

just stick to it

>>11717428
I was going to comment on how you've spent about 1/4 of the estimated time to learn Japanese by a certain government organization on Anki alone but remembered that it took people over 4000 hours just to get to the old jlpt1.

>>11716440
>>11717031
My list, i enter words i don't know in that notepad first before listing it in my anki deck.

I research each and everyone of those words so the meaning there is not by the dictionary but by my own understanding

it's in katakana because hiragana is so easy and common

I have weird word like
月の物
伝線
尻軽
在日
成田離婚

or noun from game just for the sake of onyomi
穢翼
創刻
尖閣

>>11718255
Researching is good, own understanding is good, but keep the dictionary definitions handy for the situations where you misunderstood.

>>11718255
>fumin fukyuu
Yeah fuck you too buddy.

How do you study, /jp/.
I've been trying off and on to learn Japanese for four years. I managed to learn 70 or so kanji and some vocab, but quickly lost motivation. Especially working with grammar that I can't seem to remember no matter how many times I read it.

Things like Anki take me hours to complete even when I only have like 30 or 40 cards. Wanikani constantly has reps for me and I never manage to finish before getting more pilled on me. What am I doing wrong?

I've been writing notes from Tae Kim's guide and I feel like I've about burned out again now. The furthest I've made it to is the multiple nouns chapter.

;_;

>>11718325
Don't try and make it work, just study inbetween other stuff or whenever you have some down time between games/anime. With any studying you really have to make it enjoyable and take lots of breaks otherwise its going to suck.

>>11718325
Understand before memorizing (Know what a cat is before trying to memorize neko or why there is a word for 上履き)
Put in the hours (10000)
Get lots of examples.
Learn incrementally, go build large cities from small insignificant grains of sand if you have to
Switch between emphasizing quantity and quality, breadth and depth, and other aspects from time to time.
Evaluate your strengths and weaknesses by tackling reality then work on what you need to.

>>11718189
I think those 2200+ hours were just classroom hours, they probably expect them to study outside of that time?

>>11718341
That's what I've been doing. I haven't found a way for it to be enjoyable, though.

>>11718411
Don't listen to him. No pain, no gain.

>>11716255
Voca

>>11718521
RTK

>>11718521
>>11718526
Lewd. also
reviews from 4 days ago
reviews from 10 days ago
reviews from 25 days ago
reviews from 63 days ago
reviews from ... days ago
and that's if you hit good on the default settings every time.
Add X new a day for a year and you get 10X reviews a day blah blah blah.

>>11718417
How do you do it, anon?

>>11718545
I didn't understand a word of what you meant.

>>11718411
Studying isn't supposed to be fun.

>>11718583
How do you do it, anon.

>>11718580
>Add X new a day for a year and you get 10X
reviews a day
>Add 100 new a day for a year and you get 1000
reviews a day
You'll be spending hours just reviewing on Anki at the rate you're going

>>11718597
Reviewing is the reason we are using Anki dude. What is point of reviewing if it doesn't take hours? My reps already take 2-3 hours per day.

>>11718618
Get a life.

>>11718618
It's like you're trying to laze off or something. Just write out every word you don't know onto a list that you write out again everyday. Quadriplicates and above are recommended.

>>11718634
I still don't understand your point.

>>11710496
I used to use my phone to do my reps.

For unrelated reason, I've not been able to use it for a week, until today.

I'm scared to even look at the thing

How can people have less than 300 reps per day and think they're making any sort of progress (with Anki at least). You might as well not even do it if you're memorizing so little.

>>11718764
What I meant to say is you might as well not even use Anki if you're memorizing so little. Almost everyone in this thread has like 100 reps a day, which means they're adding what, 10 cards a day? Just don't even bother.

>>11718649
Perfect.

>>11718764
>>11718772

Please fuck off back to /a/ with that retarded elitist attitude.

>>11718842
Sorry if you interpreted it that way, but really I'm trying to help. I think after a year of not pushing your self very much people will look back and ask themselves why they aren't as fluent as other people. I'm not advising burning yourself out, but I think anything less than 300 reps per day isn't really trying, at least if they're just vocabulary recognition cards. If you're doing kanji cards, well I'd first have to ask why because it doesn't really help very much, but I guess those statistics are a little different. But that's just in the realm of Anki, I think Anki should take up 25% of your study time at the most. In short, I just think people should push themselves rather than just doing the minimum and calling it a day because it's technically learning Japanese. お頑張りください

>>11718859
Anki is just one of many tools you should be using to learn Japanese. Just because someone isn't doing 300+ reps a day of Anki doesn't mean they aren't doing other things.

>>11718859
Why would you use anki over wanikani, anyway

>>11718888
Because wanikani is for beginners

>>11718563
I used Japanese as a means to procrastinate over other study I really didn't enjoy. That and the fact that I knew that my future would have been terrible if I hadn't learnt it. I had to do it to leave my home country in order to change my life for the better. Also Japanese girls and media of course.

>>11718910
Are you in Japan fucking cute anime girls?

>>11718927
not him but I'll be leaving for Japan a week from Friday and will be staying with and fucking a Japanese girl I met online.

>>11718927
Japanese girls don't really resemble anime but they're not too bad for company.

>>11718931
You said that before. At least provide some new information if you're going to blog your oriental exploits.

>>11711738
>>11711748
>>11711852
Here's a good resource on handwriting kanji, it covers most of the relevant components

http://daigotorena.moo.jp/lesson/kaisho-menu.htm

>>11711986
your angles and proportions are off, but they're just legible

>>11714141
I can read most of these pretty easily! You might check out the link too, but specifically I'd like to point out some stuff:
言：the first (top) stroke is just a dot, the first line should be noticeably wider than the rest, and the second fairly small.
斤：the vertical stroke of the "T" should be fairly vertical with a slight slant _left_

here's a helpful diagram from the aforementioned link and if anyone is confused about stuff ask away

>>11718882
I'm saying it's pointless to even use Anki at that point because you're learning so few things that it would be hard to forget with just reading.

>>11718859
i think there's something off with お頑張りください

>>11717785
標準語

>>11718952
Oh, that will be a very helpful link, thank you. Regarding questions, then:
Should I keep practicing in that 1x1cm space or would it be more handful to reduce the number of kanji per day, so I can write it in a bigger space? (and thus improve my accuracy, perhaps)
How does using a brush for kanji pay off, compared to writing it with a pencil or a pen?
近 / 通 / 辺 should I write the left - bottom left radical with 2 or 3 strokes?
Should I increase my kanji per day (from 40 to 50 for example) or focus more on improving where I'm lacking? I think I'm mostly halfassing kanji nowadays because of how tiresome it is. I mean, when I have shit like 臓 showing up I take a much longer time due to the high number of strokes, compared to the average 常用.

>>11719083
It depends on if you can use the stem form of a verb interchangeably with the -te form. Otherwise he's saying please give effort, which may make sense in english but in japanese, it's really strange.

>>11719016
It isn't pointless. Stop talking out of your ass.

How do I stop being lazy /jp/? This has been a serious problem recently with Anki - I stopped doing it for a week and then never picked it back up again. Seems really hard to start again once you've quit.

>>11719169
Do it. Open up anki, pick your desired deck, and start doing it. There really is no secret. If you want to, look at the VNs / games that make you really want to learn japanese. Look at their OPs. Think of how much fun you'll have when you are able to go through them.

>>11719169
Now imagine this, for everything in a persons life. That is my life. I only managed to finish uni because it was shit easy, and even that was a close run thing.

>>11719169
Dunno.. I just realized there is just nothing to do if I don't know Japanese.

>>11719169
Do lazy cards then. At 3 seconds a rep you can do a hundred in 5 minutes.

I don't understand how someone can claim to be a high level otaku yet not have the motivation to put in a few hours a day into Japanese.

>>11719247
this is what pisses me off about /a/

they're so elitist about their anime yet they can't even into japanese

>>11719279
Is /jp/ really any better?

>>11719112
Please don't respond if you have no idea what you're talking about please. 頑張ってください is an extremely common phrase, and お+連体形+ください is a polite form for making requests.

>>11719294
the guy you're responding to is wrong, but お頑張りください isn't nearly as common as the regular 頑張ってください

that's probably why the other guy said it sounded off

>>11719307
I know it's not as common, but don't respond if you literally have no idea what you're talking about other than basic grammar, not even knowing if you can replace て form with masu stem.

>>11719294
I didn't remember you could do that, sorry.

>>11718931
How fat is she?

>>11718859
This is what too much anki does to people. At some point anki should just be a minor part of learning with a bulk of it just reading the language. You can't just grind 300+ words every day and expect to just magically know how to read and converse.

>learning kanji doesn't help much
That alone should show how little you know.

>>11719450
she's actually on the verge of being anorexic

5'1" 83lbs

>>11719454
Most who do "too much" Anki actually spend less time on Anki and have much more free time to spend on everything else that matters.
/over generalizing end
Maybe you should actually read what you're replying to and not just pull out meanings that are most convenient to your world view.

>>11719467
Oh wow. She has the perfect height but is a bit too skinny. Though if JAVs are anything to go by, I don't think I'd want to sleep with a native japanese girl.

>>11719497
We've already had mutual masturbation sessions via Skype and I can definitely tell you that the noises they make aren't limited to JAV.

>>11718859
Do you mean a limit of 300 reviews per day, or 300 new cards per day?

>>11719506
Is she just a gaijin hunter?

>>11719532
doubt it

it took over 8 months for her to feel comfortable enough with me to do something like that

>>11719537
She has to have some flaw.

>>11719515
Whatever he exactly means it's definitely not new cards. >>11718772
I think it's reviews because it looks like he's using the X->10X estimate

And if you're thinking of putting a limit on your reviews, don't. Of course if you know what you're doing then feel free to ignore my unsolicited advice.

>>11719553
Not that anon who wrote the long post criticizing /jp/ers, I don't think anyone should put up a limit for reviews, and this is more because if you keep doing them every day, you'll reach a point of consistency. Why limit yourself to what you can review everyday?

>>11719543
I'll find out next week.

>>11719564
怖い！

>>11719109
pretty sure it's え and this fellow, I think it's more productive to use them in sentences or at least properly spaced so you have practice writing in general--there's info on that on that link plus it's good reading.

I write stuff like 臓 in semicursive (check out 行書 section) and it makes it a lot more fun/less tedious. I'm still not so fluent, but since I had stroke order down really well, it wasn't hard to work on my handwriting.

I'll try posting some stuff from my phone later.

>>11719515
I wasn't saying to limit anything, I was saying the opposite. I think you should be getting at LEAST 300 reviews per day, not at MOST.

>>11719706

>>11719818
٩(๑>∀<๑)۶♥Fight♥

>>11719558
面倒くせ~
ㄟ( ▔∀▔ )ㄏ

>>11719485
>doing 300+ reviews means you spend less time on anki than someone who does less than 300
Am I reading this correctly? Are you literally retarded?

>>11719974
they probably mean that after a certain point it becomes a routine which doesn't take up more than a certain amount of time once you're used to doing it regularly.

i like reading/writing stuff and making paper flashcards more though~

I try to make decks of 80~100 flashcards and rotating as I get comfortable/bored.

>>11718859
You know, a lot of people who do both anki and reading make their own anki deck.
Which means the amount of reps they do is determined not by what they set it as, but by how often they add new words. Also, you're just making shit up.

>>11720492
He's most likely from the japanese thread on /a/. The posters is that thread or so terribly ignorant that it's baffling.

>>11720492
I make my own deck too, I fail to see your point. Are you saying you can't get over 300 reps per day by adding words?

>>11720588
No? But I'm saying if you add X words per day from reading, then the amount of reps you do per day is determined by X. And for me 20 new words per day corresponded to a bit over 100 reps a day. If that guy thinks that you'll remember all 20 of those words a month later just from having seen them once, he's either a genius or an idiot.

>>11719974
You're retarded. Sorry.

>>11716255
Me again, so far my 50 per day is running smoothly

557 cards in 31 minutes for today

You can notice that my answer button are all 2, i drill them to my brain

>>11721249
>that cram
Is there any reason you're doing it the way you do? Of course not, you're pressing 2 on all your right answers. Just edit your settings to get more frequent reviews or additional learning steps. You'll find out soon enough why you shouldn't do so soon enough anyway.

>>11721266
Is cramming on anki bad? i recently discover that cramming, and since i start using it i have more ease answering new young cards

>>11721302
Cramming is for when you need to memorize something for the short term like maybe you have a test this weekend. It's horribly inefficient in the long run though. Same issue with pressing only button 2 on all your right answers. All the buttons are there for a reason, to make you review harder cards more frequently than easier cards. Another issue is that you're going to see a very large jump in the number of your reviews within a month, probably something like an additional 200 at least though if you don't actually continue adding 50 past the holidays then that won't happen.

>>11721249
I like how you think you're special because you started adding 50 words a day for a couple days, cram, and hit 2 for every word. I do 50 words a day too, but I don't cram and hit 3 for almost every card, and I still get 94% of young and 92% of mature, and I'm not just doing it for 2 weeks whatever. I like how you're still getting less than 100 reps a day too, really puts it in to perspective how slowly you're learning even after doing this plan of yours. If you're doing anything less than 10k words per year, just fucking give up.

>>11721665
i am currently enjoying my harvest. i just add vocabulary every now and then

If i add all my list from my notepad, it will only reach up to 3250.. 10k is so far.

Well it can reach it if i copy the whole dictionary. But what's the point?? i plan to enjoy it while learning not to memorize everything possible

>>11721725
Don't mind that guy too much. He's either trolling or has issues beyond learning Japanese. I think you're slow too but then again you've just begun (again? It looks like you've only just started adding recently anyway). The point of "10K" (or any other large number) though is to get a working vocab for reading stuff earlier, but don't sweat it if you're in no kind of a hurry. You'll get there faster than natives anyway.

>>11721725
Then you need to read more. You should just read for at minimum 3 hours per day, and especially, now this is important, do not sit on words like you're doing, keeping them in a notepad or whatever. You learned them while you were reading, so there's no point in waiting a week, forgetting them, and then adding them, just add however many words you get the day you get them. It doesn't matter if it's 20 or 100, you shouldn't just let them sit like that, otherwise it's no different than just adding from a random word list because you'll probably end up forgetting most of them. And if you don't end up forgetting most of them, there isn't a point in adding them to Anki in the first place. But yeah, back to my first point, if you aren't reading enough to get a decent amount of words per day AND you only know 3000, you're barely spending any time at all with Japanese, which makes me wonder why you're even learning it to begin with. If you don't have enough motivation to even read for an hour a day, which at your level could easily net you the 30 words to get you to 10k per year, it doesn't seem like you even want to learn Japanese that much at all. And please don't say you don't have an hour a day, you probably waste an hour on 4chan everyday anyway.

>>11711484
idiot cant be used as an adjective, only stupid can

It's a self-made deck, it has per kanji one card for writing it out, one for the onyomi (with meaning, if any) and one per kunyomi (with meaning). It contains most the jouyou kanji (with the jouyou readings) plus some additional kanji and readings, 2337 kanji in total.

>>11722103
Pls no bully!

>>11722095
http://www.autism.org.uk/helpline

>>11722095
>do not sit on words
Seconding this one. You could extend it to a few days if you're really busy and only get to read once a week if only to avoid having days where you do hundreds one day then zero the next. There's really no reason to let the memory of context fade for cards that you're planning on adding anyway.

>>11722109
You made 4000 cards in advance yourself?

>>11722111
i didnt mean to sound rude, i just know what it's like to mess up synonyms in an L2

>>11722151
Yes, though certainly not in one go. For most jouyou cards, everything except the English translation is autogenerated from the jouyou table in Japanese wikipedia. Knowing the deck is incomplete bothered me in an autistic sort of way, so I made a point to chip away at it every day if even a little. Eventually it got done.

>>11722289
In was referring to the 4000 unseen cards.

>>11722360
I was referring to the whole deck, including the unseen cards.

>>11722624
suck my cock

>>11722709
refer to
>>11722111

http://japaneseclass.jp/

This seems like a fun way to learn.