/jp/ - Otaku Culture

Just read and enjoy it.

>>11681590
It has swimsuit Reimu so yes, it's good.

It's really, really dumb. It's like shounen shit without anything fun.
"Reimu, you have the power of the gods!"
"Okay."
PLOT THREAD OVER. On to the "building a spaceship" arc!

If it didn't have the Touhou name attached to it, nobody would read or enjoy it. There are lots of individual elements that could have been neat (Reisen II, The Lunar Capital, Yukari being a dick) but nothing is fully explored. I think there's a reason ZUN is a programmer and not a writer, and why people like the Touhou games as shmups with cute character designs instead of for the thrilling plots.

Aki Eda's art is nice though. A lot of people seem to dislike it, but I think it's cute and it fits Touhou well enough.

It's not too long. No offense, but how about you read it and form your own opinion?

I'd say most of the critique is exaggerated, although I can see where people are coming from, I guess.

>Is it true that [...] Moon bitches are just a pair of unlikeable Mary Sues?
It's important to keep in mind that the lunarians in Touhou are based on the lunarians of old Japanese lore. They were a race of ancient and very powerful gods, basically. Compared to the power levels we're used to seeing in Touhou they naturally very overpowered.

I just want to mention that since it could save you the trouble of judging them solely based on their ridiculous powers.

>>11681616
I can't say I love nor hate Aki Eda's art. I do really love how she draws Reimu with the long ponytail though.

Read Cage in Lunatic Runagate afterward. It's the same story told differently. I guess it is the complement to SSiB. They're more satisfying together.

>>11681590

Moonbitches?

Ok: imagine all the powers of every god in one being, BUT if you make her body impure by any means (I.E. throwing rotting plant or animal matter at her) they cannot summon the gods into their bodies anymore.

I look forward to this becoming a Watatsuki thread.

>>11681616
To be honest, I actually read Forbidden Scrollery and WaHH just recently, and even though they are not finished, I really like his story telling, even if it seems a little too episodic, with the only continuous plotline being about Kasen in the latter. Still not sure what is going on in FS, exactly, but the slice of life-ness was okay for me.

>>11681619
I wasn't considering that, to be honest. It does help having a little context.

Also, truth be told, I am still reading the others first, mostly because I favor some of the characters much more than the Eientei crowd and associates. Like the fairies, they are up next.

>>11681634
That kind of power seems terrifying. Even with that one, admittedly quite big weakness, though, wouldn't it be relatively easy for them to keep anything impure off themselves in the first place?

Thanks your input, anycase! Have a Rumia.

>>11681657
Defeating them is actually quite easy, anon. You just need to have confidence in yourself. Do not be intimidated by their so called "power". Remember, they are conduits, not the source of the forces they wield.

>>11681657
>mostly because I favor some of the characters much more than the Eientei crowd and associates
SSiB is largely about other characters. The SDM girls are a major part, probably more than Eientei.

>>11681590
>four years I am into the series
>just recently had the time to pick up some of the Touhou manga

Oh you, primaries...

People hate SSiB because they expected it to be serious and grimdark, which it wasn't because it's Touhou. The only canon it contradicted was their headcanon.

Personally, I don't find the Watatsukis particularly likable, but they're the antagonists, so why should they be? IN cast plays a really minor role in the manga, you need to read CiLR to get to their parts. But you also need to read CiLR to get the true ending.

>>11681616
What you mean to say is, it's nothing like "shounen". You just wanted "shounen" and didn't get it.

Whether ZUN is a skilled troll who anticipated this kind of reaction or not is unclear.

Even if you don't like Eientei much, it still has some great moments with SDM and Yuyuko/Youmu. I really enjoyed moments like the Patche-Eirin discussion or the whole "We're going to te moon, lol" and SDM building a spaceship.
As for the Moonbitches, they are actually quite nice, if you don't mind them beating the living shit out of your favourites, that is. Reimu having the power of gods is somewhat justifiable, but as it's never heard about again after SSiB and Cage... I prefer to just treat it as a fun side story. And you can easily read it in one afternoon, so seeing for yourself would be probably the best option.

>>11681704
Patchy's magic moon rocket is one of my very favorite things in the canon. I'm sure SSiB is part of why I began liking the SDM so much.

>>11681704
>Reimu having the power of gods is somewhat justifiable, but as it's never heard about again after SSiB and Cage... I prefer to just treat it as a fun side story.

I'm not sure if you're referring to reimu's powers here or the story as a whole but; normally, a shrine maiden's main duty is summoning and communicating with gods, which is what Reimu does in her battle.

Basically this is why Yukari comes and nags Reimu in the beginning if I remember correctly; so she'd actually do what she's supposed to do for once (other than exterminating youkai).

>>11681723
Also, summoning power of gods happens all the time. Sanae summons Kanako and Suwako. Okuu permanently channels Yatagarasu. Reimu herself summons Kanayamabiko here in WaHH.

She just never used them in fighting anymore, but why would she?

>>11681768
Whoa, I forgot how much her art improved.

shit

>is Silent Sinner in Blue worth reading?
You are the one supposed to decide that after reading a few chapters, dood.

>>11681697
>they're the antagonists
Reimu and co. are actually the antagonists in the moon trip, but the story is from their perspective.

>>11681723
>Basically this is why Yukari comes and nags Reimu in the beginning if I remember correctly; so she'd actually do what she's supposed to do for once

Nope. First it's implied that Yukari tells Reimu to train and summon various gods in order to prepare for the Moon trip and fighting Yorihime, and that's what most people see. The clincher is that Reimu summoning on Earth is what brought on suspicion of the Wakatsuki sisters, which Reisen heard about and told Eirin. It's also the reason Reisen II came to Earth. Eirin becomes suspicious because Yukari tells everyone but Eientei that she's plotting something. These together make up Eirin sending a warning to the Wakatsuki. Eirin figures that the moon trip is a ploy by Yukari and tells the Wakatsuki to split up to catch her, but Yukari already knows this is what Eirin and the Wakatsuki will do, because she made it happen to begin with. By making Reimu summon gods, she put the plan to capture herself into motion in order to subdue the two sisters and Eirin all at once by convincing them that they've won.

>>11681627
CiLR has all of the really good fleshy stuff in it. I really, really recommend the read, since it's more of ZUN's actual writing without being hampered by the manga format and it explores a lot of the underlying threads that SSiB only covers on the surface level.

It's utter shit. This reads like bad fanfiction and looks like complete ass. Who the fuck thinks Aki Eda is the right person to draw this? The only reason anyone defends it is because it says Touhou on the cover. Think anyone would like this if it was a stand alone project filled with original characters?

>>11682377
>Think anyone would like this if it was a stand alone project filled with original characters?
Would you have played 10.5 if it had been just another doujin fighter?

>>11682379
If it played the same way, yes. The cast in that game makes little sense anyway. The only reason some characters are in there is because they had the sprites from the previous game. Remilia can't even confront Tenshi. What is she doing there?

>>11682381
Because she's loved by everybody. It's not like most people knew the culprit was when they decided to investigate, anyway.

>If it played the same way, yes.
Maybe, but SWR's gameplay had issues that weren't fixed until 12.8, and to be honest I don't even try the vast majority of non-Touhou doujinsoft so I probably wouldn't have even given it a chance

>>11682352
You're giving too much credit to Yukari, whose previous attempts at invading the moon were met with horrible, horrible failure I say attempts because Yukari probably tried again after originally getting shitstomped

And the Rocket Crew being antagonists is simply not true. They didn't go to the moon because they wanted to fight the Watatsukis. Mostly, they were just there for the hell of it read: the plot of every Touhou game not involving world-ending peril. They were used as a decoy by Yukari so that she could steal sake.

Not only that, but Reimu always had the power of gods on her side, being a shrine maiden and all. The Hakurei clan works with Yukari to maintain the border to Gensokyo.


All in all, you put too much faith into Yukari, who is decidedly weaker than Shikieki, the Watatsukis, and Marisa/Reimu, and on par with people like Koishi, Suika, and Yuuka. She's incredibly smart, yes, but the extent of her intellect is minimal. Kanako, Marisa, and Eirin are probably on par with her, if not better. She's been shown several times to not be entirely right in the head, often times getting outwitted.

>>11682423
>Yukari, who is decidedly weaker than Shikieki, the Watatsukis, and Marisa/Reimu, and on par with people like Koishi, Suika, and Yuuka.
[citation needed]

>>11681768
>>11681786
Reimu actually has the same character as Yorihime, the power to summon the gods. As in, all of them. The problem is that she's lazy and never practices unless Yukari's poking her with a pointed stick from behind while Yorihime's constantly practicing and working her butt off.

I actually rather like Yorihime, though chapter 18 cemented Toyohime as "Touhou's most loathsome person" in my mind.

>>11682458
>Yama
While Eiki's combat capacity is never directly referenced, at the conclusion of ZUN's "A Beautiful Flower Blooming Violet Every Sixty Years", Yukari Yakumo believes that herself, Yuyuko Saigyouji and Reimu Hakurei to be together "no match for" the Yama.

I liked it. Don't worry about people think. This isn't /a/. Just make your own opinions about things.

>>11682502
She means that they don't want to be lectured by her.

And that's only one of the characters you mentioned.

The only good thing about the manga is the general idea. The actual execution is horrible in every aspect, from writing to art. Combine that with the fact that ZUN apparently didn't even fully care what's going on in it and you have a big pile of shit. Seriously, why is he cheerfully admitting that he didn't explain stuff well enough to Aki Eda? Is that supposed to make the manga less shitty? Because all it is is one slap to the face of anyone who thinks he really cares about is series.

>>11682519
Marisa and Reimu are obvious because they are protected by Batman levels of plot-armor, on top of being the MC's.

Suika is obviously extremely powerful (not to mention she's at least stronger than Tenshi, like Yukari, and Tenshi is pretty strong herself), and she goes a ways back with Yukari. Both Yuugi and Suika are super powerful because of not only being Oni, but being 2 of the 4 strongest Oni in existence.

Watatsukis repelled her invasion of the moon. They're some of the most powerful characters in existence, up there with Demonbane and the Flash for retardedly strong powers.

Koishi has her control of the subconscious, which works on Yukari. Outside of a danmaku battle, Yukari wouldn't stand a cold's chance in hell against her (like all characters).

Yuuka most likely has Alice's grimoire, which would make her notably powerful as well, on top of being a playable character that kicked the ass of Shinki. A lot of her conversations in PoFV also note her as being exceedingly powerful.

Then there's also Eirin and Kaguya, who are Lunarians. In Nip mythology, Lunarians are super powerful bullshit, which is why the Watatsukis are so ridiculously strong. It stands to reason that Kaguya, being the former princess, and Eirin, being the Watatsukis' teacher, are somewhere around that level as well.

>>11682540

Don't put Marisa on the same tier as Reimu. This is the same person who almost lost to Cirno. Also, Suika did defeat Tenshi, but Tenshi defeated her in her own story, and then went on to defeat 6 other powerful characters with barely any rest in between, including god-tier Reimu. Tenshi's top 5, easy.

Watatsuki's are obvious. Even ZUN said they were too powerful.

I...don't want to get into Yuuka. I just want to say I believe she is EXTREMELY overrated and not anywhere near the level the fandom puts her at. Certainly not on the level of titans like Suika. Reimu, Tenshi, or Yukari.

As for the Lunarians. You might have a case with Eirin. Kaguya, however, is not that strong. She mostly uses magical artifacts to fight and has been stated to be decidedly weaker than Eirin such to the point that Eirin has to hold back to avoid wounding Kaguya's pride.

>>11682423
I couldn't be giving too much credit to Yukari because it's pretty much outright said that she planned it in this fashion. Not to the degree of how everything actually worked out (for example, she never gave Yuyuko any real instructions despite Yuyuko's involvement being the entire point of the plan) but it's pretty clear once you go back and put the pieces together.

You also cannot assume that Yukari "tried again"; there is no evidence of this, and it makes little sense for Yukari to acknowledge they're no match for the Lunarians yet try repeatedly after getting beaten before. SSiB's story is even called the second Genso-Lunar war.
There's also much reason to believe Yukari's first "invasion" attempt wasn't even an actual attempt at all, and that precisely like this time, getting captured was the goal.

Rocket Crew weren't antagonists in the usual sense, I meant more that they were the intruders on the Lunarians' home territory. Even if they didn't really mean any harm, Reimu even says this herself.

>decidedly weaker than Shikieki, the Watatsukis, and Marisa/Reimu, and on par with people like Koishi, Suika, and Yuuka
>the extent of her intellect is minimal
0/10 wow

>>11681590
If you're any fan of Touhou then yes it's worth it without question. It was actually getting really good until the very end, but even the end is on par for Touhou. They drink sake together.

>>11682696
You forgot the pool-party.

>>11682352
>the story is from their perspective

Which, by definition, makes them protagonists, and everyone who opposes them antagonists. That's what those words mean, you silly person... people.

>>11682423
>You're giving too much credit to Yukari

No, he's literally just summing up the plot.

And let's just cut this powerlevel discussion short: Yukari is THE strongest youkai in Gensokyo, its ruler and final boss. The only entities who have claims to power exceeding hers are primordial gods (Eirin), ancient godlike celestials (other Lunarians) and agents of cosmic order (Eiki), and in no case it's definite. Watatsukis in particular did absolutely nothing to prove their superiority - they never fought her, she outwitted them, and the only threat they had for her was "we'll demolish that pretty garden of yours" (which, as Reimu demonstrated against them, is a pretty successful way of intimidation).

>>11682540
>Batman levels of plot-armor

They operate in a non-competitive, non-lethal environment and can take as many retries as they want until they succeed. Call it a plot armor, but it's a plot armor in the form of social contract, not some supreme cosmic force - as SSiB amply demonstrates.

Reimu is actually alluded to have high level hax powers that she could tap on if she wasn't lazy, but she hardly ever uses them, and doesn't need to. Marisa, however, is just an ordinary weakling human who knows some magic, which would put her just a bit above the fairies in the grand scheme of things.

>>11681590
>the Moon bitches are just a pair of unlikeable Mary Sues?
Whoever says that is a fucking moron, as well as a smelly and unfortunate hatless Irish who never bothered reading SSiB to the end.

>>11691859
thats because SSiB is fucking boring and the art is horrendous

>>11691876
Exactly like capital letter and apostrophe, I see.

>>11691882
You mean "capital letter's and apostrophe's", idiot.

>>11691900
Ha, now you're being rude and swearing at me. How typical, when one doesn't have anything worthwhile to say.

>every moonbitches thread devolves into powerlevel discussion
classic jaypee

>>11682423
>You're giving too much credit to Yukari, whose previous attempts at invading the moon were met with horrible, horrible failure
She knowingly sent her political opponents to go die on the moon. Granted that they were probably assholes even on youkai standards, but that was pretty cold-blooded.

>>11692002
>She knowingly sent her political opponents to go die on the moon. Granted that they were probably assholes even on youkai standards, but that was pretty cold-blooded.
Are you referring to the first unshowed Lunar War, or are you talking about Remilia?
Because I remember her saying that the first Lunar War was stupid and lead only to a slaughter, but I don't remember her doing it purpose to get rid of her opponent.

Does /jp/ worth reading or not?
Never seen here anything interesting for me.

>>11692002
mind giving the proof?

>>11692290
/jp/ is no good.
It's like a bar where everyone is more or less drunk. Some guys are totally wasted and are just constantly repeating they want to spank Hatate, others are a bit less drunk and are trying to keep everyone in order.

>>11692002
Ah, true. She sent them to the moon because they were warlike youkai. If there ever was a chance for gensoukyo to have any semblance of balance, they needed to go, but she could not do it herself.

She surprised me when she kneeled to beg the moonwhores to not destroy Earth/Gensokyo. It also made me realiza that the moon sues are not above genocide.

>>11692550
What it made me realize is that they're not immune to flattery.

>>11692550
>genocide
The word you were looking for is "PEST CONTROL".

>>11681590
If they were Mary Sues they'd be likable, because Mary Sues are flawless. The Watatsuki sisters, especially Toyohime, are basically space Nazis (like all moonmen,) I guess the Mary Sue whining comes from the fact that ZUN said in an interview that Yorihime could never appear in a game because you're supposed to be able to win in games.

Yorihime's not that bad, has a sense of honor and some degree of respect for her opponents, etc., Toyohime is the real bitch.

>>11681634
When Reimu channeled that god of corruption it was a threat to the entire existence of the mooninites and their perfect flawless moon-nazi paradise.

>>11681704
She doesn't have the power of the gods, she and Yorihime are spiritual mediums. And it's mentioned again in Wild and Horned Hermit, it's what Kasen makes Reimu do training for.

As for the moonbitches, Yorihime was fine, it was Toyohime who was threatening to sterilize Gensokyo while Yorihime agreed to fight using spellcard rules before unbegrudgingly letting everyone but Reimu return to Earth, and then showing Reimu hospitality despite the fact that Reimu is, in the eyes of the lunarians, a putrid, corrupt, impure beast.

>>11681768
>Sanae summons Kanako and Suwako. Okuu permanently channels Yatagarasu.

Because Kanako and Suwako literally physically live in the same place as her, she's not channeling them and acting as an avatar, which is what Reimu and Yorihime do, Utsuho ATE Yatagarasu, this is mentioned time and time again. By doing so, she became a living shrine to Yatagarasu because a shrine in Shinto is considered the literal house of the god which is worshipped there.

>>11682502
She means in terms of rhetoric/debate.

It's pretty bad honestly, it fails at expanding the plotlines and the art is pretty bad.

The Touhou manga with the book library girl is better because the art is really pretty.

Die moonbitches die moonbitches die

>>11682540
>Koishi has her control of the subconscious, which works on Yukari. Outside of a danmaku battle, Yukari wouldn't stand a cold's chance in hell against her (like all characters).

Koishi has no consciousness, there is no control, she's basically an unconscious operating on instinct/whim. Where did you get this idea that this makes her the most superultimate hyper powerful character ever? It never says that anywhere.

>>11682540
>Yuuka most likely has Alice's grimoire

Are you 100% stupid? Alice has Alice's grimoire, it's in her fucking hands. Where do you even get these retarded fanon delusions?

http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Perfect_Memento_in_Strict_Sense/Yuuka_Kazami

Where does it say anything about grimoires? What dialogue in PoFV suggests any such thing? Where is it implied that such a thing would make a difference even if it were true? Yuuka doesn't use magic, she's not a magician.

>>11695451
Welcome to the wonderful world of powerlevel wanking.

>>11695460
Don't you mean fanboy delusion?

Yuuka has youkai moe

>>11695462
That usually goes hand in hand. Someone who hates Touhou will see little reason to hype up it's characters, especially if you consider that characters in Touhou never do anything impressive.

>>11695462
Kinda. Powerlevel and endless discussions.

And when they can't deny that a character is the strongest because ZUN himself said so, they just go "hurr durr shes a nazi lololol" like a bunch of gutless retards unable to cope with the harsh reality.
Must suck to learn that your waifu's a shit. SSiB sucked for a lot of people.

CiaLR > SSiB
Well, at least I enjoyed it. A lot.

It's worth it just for Patchy telling that worthless moonhag to go fuck herself.

>>11695434
>she's not channeling them

Hisoutensoku. Play it.

>Utsuho ATE Yatagarasu

No, she didn't. Please don't overanalyze a poor quality liberal translation. The process is more or less described and it did not involve consumption.

Shinto gods are functionally omnipresent and can reside and manifest in any place relevant to their doman, or just anywhere period. At the same time. (This is discussed extensively in CoLA.)

Weekly reminder that Yorihime is my favourite Touhou.

It's the worst manga (among the canon ones) in my opinion, but it's still worth reading.

>>11695882
I agree with you.

>>11695882
I agree. It has more texts, so there are less faggots to read and spew random bits of it to justify their hatred of some character that I happen to like

>>11704546
I know who you are.
Go back to THP.
I miss you.

>>11704546
you just couldn't let this thread die could you?

>>11704694
I saged my post back then.

>>11692181
Her objective in this was two-fold. First was to get rid of the warlike youkai as said.
The second was to demonstrate to the remaining youkai of Gensokyo that these types of conquests for land and power could likely end very badly, so it should be avoided.
Also, hate to ask, but I forgot where it talks about the warlike youkai actually being sent to death rather than just getting beaten. Which one or where was it again?

>>11712849
Dunno. Probably in CoLR. Keep calling it CoLA for some reason. Damn coca.

>>11695456

Not that guy, but aren't the master spark and double spark both magic spells?

>>11712849
holy piss out my ass that drawing is fucking retarded

please refer to the official chart when powerlevel fanwanking.

>>11715257
>Rikako
>Powerful magic

I approve of this chart.

>>11715257
Your font is awful.
Your pictures are awful.
This shit is as official as that rape doujin that CGRascal butchered earlier.
You tiers don't make any sense, with Luize having "unknown" powers yet being stronger than Yamame.
You're shitting on canon by putting your favourite girls in that bullshit ex tier list.
Your fucking pets are being skinned alive.
Your mom's a fucking whore.
The whole world hates you.
You're going to hell.
Live with it.
Game over.

And you suck, asshole.

>>11715300
You're worng.

>>11715257
>everything in the series made by the author is canon)
So how about that Uwabami Breakers, guys? it's canon right?

>>11715311
Of course, it's just a parallel universe

>>11715257
...lest you end up like the guy who made the attached picture.

>>11681590
glad there are more people like me

I have downloaded ssib ages ago and couldn't get myself to reading it
convinced myself I have to unlock all the endings in touhou 8 first
failed

>>11681672
>warhammer shit

>>11715680
Nice tumblr tier reaction image, m8

Fixed the powerlevel chart.

>>11716138
Sorry, but Eirin-sensei is way above those two kids.

>>11716138
Please keep trying to be a primary. You'll get there one day.

>>11716154
Eirin-Sensei?
Oh, you mean that woman who BETRAYED HER OWN COUNTRY, after SLAUGHTERING THE REST OF THE LUNAR EXPEDITION?
You mean that woman who committed the most horrible crime by making a girl immortal, and walked away freely because she has relations, only to do the same exact thing several years later, poisoning another girl?
You mean that woman that betrayed the country she helped founding?
You mean that woman who could've avoided the whole mess in SSiB if she sabotaged Remi's rocket instead of assisting her in her travel?
You mean that Stage 6 midboss?
You mean the woman that Reisen already has surpassed (inb4 retarded argument "hurr durr i know zun helped making Inaba but i dont like it so its not canon because he didnt wrote the stories")?

Do you really mean THAT woman?
Yeah, sure. Let's put a deceiveful, murderous, potentially insane and horribly egotistical bitch in the top tier. It's not like she got her ass kicked in IN.

>>11716167
Do you want a cockie for that?

>>11716167
Yes, the woman who founded the lunar society.
The woman who could single-handedly slaughter all her Lunarian peers combined.
The woman who's powerful enough to not worry about moon's law enforcement ever laying their hands on her.
The woman who is so far above everyone else that Yukari could only get to her through her self-conceited pupils, and even that required making up a convoluted plan involving a selection of some of the strongest people in Gensokyo and its vicinity.

That woman.

As much as you want to believe in cosmic justice, being an deceiveful, murderous, potentially insane and horribly egotistical bitch does not prevent you from being the strongest bitch around.

>>11716189
>Yes, the woman who founded the lunar society.
No. She just helped founding it. Like all settlers who followed Tsukuyomi.
>The woman who could single-handedly slaughter all her Lunarian peers combined.
Stop making shit up.
>The woman who's powerful enough to not worry about moon's law enforcement ever laying their hands on her.
If "powerful" means "being friend with the local sheriff", then yeah.
>The woman who is so far above everyone else that Yukari could only get to her through her self-conceited pupils, and even that required making up a convoluted plan involving a selection of some of the strongest people in Gensokyo and its vicinity.
Nevermind the fact that her plan backfired on her.

And I noticed you obviously unintentionally forgot the part with Reisen saying she surpassed Eirin.

>>11716215
Never mind that she was Tsukuyomi's mentor and most trusted aide.
So did she slaughter them or not? You really need to decide on one version.
Yes, being powerful means people tend to be nice to you.
In what way was Yukari's plan not a success?

>you obviously unintentionally forgot the part with Reisen saying she surpassed Eirin

There's a difference between light-hearted bickering and outright silliness. I am not willing to cross the line to the latter. Let's keep a semblance of relevance, shall we?

And I forgot something :
>As much as you want to believe in cosmic justice, being an deceiveful, murderous, potentially insane and horribly egotistical bitch does not prevent you from being the strongest bitch around.
I'm not saying she's in the shit tier because she's a deceiveful, murderous, potentially insane and horribly egotistical bitch, but it's because while her plan to lure Yukari out by using Remi as bait was brilliant and totally dickish, it still failed, as Yukari expected that all along.
So yeah, not only she's a deceiveful, murderous, potentially insane and horribly egotistical bitch, but she's also useless : she only get to shine twice in Touhou, and the first time, she ends up being beaten (IN), and the second time, she's outsmarted. Not really impressive.
Add to this, that most often, it's her student that tries to help (SWR, Soku, PoFV) while she just stays at home, and she gives the feeling of not giving a fuck because she's a lazy slob. Kinda like Abaddon, in fact : impressive in fluff, poor elsewhere.

>Never mind that she was Tsukuyomi's mentor and most trusted aide.
Source on that? Is it said in the Touhou materials, or does it comes from the original legends?
>So did she slaughter them or not? You really need to decide on one version.
Haa, I get it.
And yet I disagree because : Lunar Expedition =/= all of her Lunarians peers combined.
The Lunar Expedition was just to bring Kaguya back, and get rid of the last Hourai Elixir. Eirin was here ONLY because she asked for it, I think it's mentionned in the biography. It wasn't a war party, and they were most probably all goons.
"All of her Lunarians peers combined" means the whole Lunar Capital population.
>Yes, being powerful means people tend to be nice to you.
I don't really get your point, here. You're saying it's because she's powerful that she's respected? If that's the case, then I disagree, for the same reason as mentioned before.
>In what way was Yukari's plan not a success?
What?

I checked Eirin's biography, and I couldn't find the part about her willing to be in the party to get Kaguya back. It way not be canon.

However, I found something else :
>For some reason, she helped Kaguya kill all the other messengers instead.
I'll make sure to repost that later, maybe in another discussion thread, it sounds interesting.

Fixed the powerlevel chart.
Now let that thread die.

>>11716244
>plan to lure Yukari out by using Remi as bait

She didn't plan any of this. Yukari did. All she did was anticipate it and warn her pupils on the moon.

>she ends up being beaten (IN)

In a spellcard battle, while trying to not look stronger than Kaguya. That's even more meaningless than usual Touhou battles.

>she's outsmarted

Yeah, well, that only shows she's not infallible and omniscient. It does not make her any weaker.

>Source on that?

CiLR:
>Eirin has been alive for much longer than I have. Due to her longevity, even on the moon, she was a key figure in her role as sage.
>Our master has lived even longer than Lord Tsukuyomi. When he moved to the moon and built the capital, the one he relied on the most was our master, Lady Eirin Yagokoro.

>Lunar Expedition =/= all of her Lunarians peers combined.

I thought the context was clear. I also assumed taking vagueness out of it was the whole joke - wasn't it, Mr. "Reisen surpassed her master"?

>What?

I was talking about Yukari's plan. You know, months of preparations and a number of powerful participants employed, just to produce something Eirin might start worrying about. Because she just can't threaten her directly.

>>11716295
>In a spellcard battle, while trying to not look stronger than Kaguya. That's even more meaningless than usual Touhou battles.
Ha, so you decided to ignore the only totally reliable source for powerlevel discussion.
Well, there's no point in continuing this argument if you're like that.

>>11716300
Forgot my trip. And forgot to sage too.

>>11716300
>the only totally reliable source for powerlevel discussion

I know, huh? I always love bringing up all those people Cirno and Mystia beat up in their games.

>>11716307
Problem is, that a powerlevel discussion discussion requires everyone to, um, "suspend their disbelief". I think that's the expression.
Because there are basically two powerlevel : the lore one, and the game one. Fluff and "crunch", if I remember right.
And they're incompatible.

So either you just follow the fluff, and claims that Yukari is the strongest because she can gap your guts out of your body because you can even say "how much can a wood chuck chuck if a woo chuck could chuck wood".
Or you follow the game, and in this case, Suika is the best, since she actually beat Reimu in a game.

Or you try to mix them, and it's extremely hard to do, and will most often fail. That's what I tried to do just now, mixing lore and game to decide if Eirin was a shit, or if she was still kicking, or if she was good back then when she was young and then turned into shit as she grew old.

>>11716317
Maybe Yukari's power shouldn't be taken so seriously, though. Also, considering ZUN's descriptions of how powerful a character is might be a less shitty way of measuring powerlevels. This would directly indicate those moonbitches as the strongest ones of the lore.

>>11716320
>moonbitches


Whatever ZUN does or say, it should always be taken as granted. If you start ignoring what he said because "he was joking" or "he was drunk", then you can go ahead and start ignoring everything you don't like in the games/mangas/novels with flimsy excuses.
But I still agree that the moonHONEYS are the best.


We encountered a similar problem on touhou-project. A powerlevel argument, with people using Akyuu's book to prove their point, until someone said "wait a minute, she never goes out and only relies on hearsay to write her book". Five minutes later, any mention of Perfect Memento in a discussion would lead to the same argument being repeated.
Yes, even with Reimu and Marisa, despite the fact they must visit the Human Village.

>Powerlevel discussion.

>>11716317
>"suspend their disbelief"

I don't think it means what you think it means. Nobody's bringing real world physics into powerlevel discussion. They're bringing canon sources, and canon sources say spellcards are explicitly designed to give everyone a fighting chance, and that's not even mentioning all those retries that PCs canonically make before they finally beat everyone and finish the game.

>And they're incompatible.

They're perfectly compatible. The "lore" was specifically written to explain what happens in the game. And it was specifically written to say it's not representative of serious powerlevel.

>Suika is the best, since she actually beat Reimu in a game.

As did Cirno.
As did Mystia.

Oh, but they're the best, I agree.

>>11716331
>"wait a minute, she never goes out and only relies on hearsay to write her book"

...but she does go out, and that's not even the problem. The problem is that she's not particularly concerned with factual accuracy in general.

The problem with powerlevel talks is that people can't spend five minutes talking without bringing in Opinions, Feelings, Favorite Characters, Could/Would/Shoulds and going full retard in general.

We've all seen it happen a thousand times.

>>11716523
Your average powerlevelfag.

>>11716523
>I don't think it means what you think it means
Then what is the expression to describe the fact that you're okay with ignoring some facts while accepting others as "real"? Like, having a subjective point of view?

As for the rest, you're just restarting the powerlevel discussion, I don't want to be part of it again.

>>11681697
>Oh you, primaries...
better than being a secondary

>>11681697
>Oh you, primaries...

If he was a primary he would have gotten into Touhou more than four years ago.

This is like calling someone a rock and roll otaku because they discovered The Beatles last year.

>>11716815
In most cases, being a primary has nothing to do with how long you are in the fandom though.
I've known people who have been into Touhou since 07 and still go all like
"I have the same mental illness as Flandre, only I understand her, Remilia locked her in the basement" or never even played Touhou to begin with.

I like the world of Gensokyo, but I don't really enjoy STGs. Mostly I played the games out of obligation. Well, I did play Hisoutensoku with /jp/ back when we had a lot of players.

>>11716827
>"I have the same mental illness as Flandre, only I understand her, Remilia locked her in the basement"
What the fuck.

>>11716827
Were you a fan of shmups before you got into Touhou? If the answer is "no", then you can't be a primary. You got into Touhou because you "heard about it" (in a memetic/osmotic way), or because you like the characters or videos or some other fanon shit.

And if you WERE a fan of shmups, you probably would have played Touhou by now. Again, it's like being a "fan" of a music genre but having never heard that genre's most popular band/songs (whether they're good or bad).

>>11716815
Space Invaders are The Beatles. Touhou is... I don't know, Animal Collective? There are acceptable excuses for a shmup fan to have never heard of it until relatively recently. Including but not limited to the games never having been officially distributed outside Japan.

>>11716827
Oh shit dude, I hear this all the time.
Once, I heard a girl at a convention say that she was in fact Flandre because she used to have an abusive boyfriend after being abused in her past so she claimed only she fully understood how Flandre must feel all the time.
Where the fuck do they get this shit.

>>11716907
Animal Collective is pretty well-regarded, though. The general consensus among the shmup community is that Touhou is a decent game but it's dated (there were better shmups 20 years ago) and not particularly challenging.

>>11717012
>decent
it's just autistic memorization of patterns. Lunatic mode is basically normal mode for real arcade shmups

>>11717063
>opinion

>>11717077
go back to /a/

>>11717063
You're almost definitely trolling, but you have a point in there somewhere.

It's not like the hardest shmups are automatically the best, but Touhou isn't great in terms of "challenge" (which I think is different to difficulty--a solid wall of bullets with one random opening is very difficult, but not challenging).

Though it is pretty easy as far as "OMG this is so HARD!!! ;_;" shmups go. There's certainly a lot less you have to worry about compared to most shmups. In terms of mechanics, Touhou is only a little more involved than Space Invaders or Centipede.

"Decent" is the right word.

>>11717012
>there were better shmups 20 years ago

Oh, there sure were better bands than AC in the 60s/70s. Every dad-shmup fan will tell you that.

>>11717086
>being this mad

>>11717099
My dad and his friends used to play analogue shmups. They'd hook up oscilloscopes and circuit breakers. Get hit and you wouldn't lose a credit, you'd get a dangerous electric shock! Those were the days...

>>11717113
what

That's borderline torture here.

>>11717121
Legend has it that "lives" in modern day shoot em ups comes from the fact that players lost their lives playing analogue shmups in the early 20th century.

>>11717121
>getting hit
You should play on easy mode.

>>11715300
Someone's not being subtle about having liked the AVGN game.

>>11721375
Now that I read your post, I feel like a hipster.
You know, he used it in a video before it was used in a game. Check the "Friday the 13th" test.