/jp/ - Otaku Culture

If jesus is so smart why is he dead?

/pol/ please stay in /pol/

>>11155374
most everyone on /lit/ is an atheist but Dawkins is rather unpopular there

because he's a "pop scientist" and knows nothing about philosophy apparently

which is why any debate between Dawkins and a theistic philosopher is like a debate between a blind man and a death man over a movie

or so I've heard

>2013
>caring about whether or not God exists

tfw im an atheist but im too stupid to refute the argument in op's image

>>11155393
>death man

er, deaf man

>>11155374
A fucking pony made out of clay-dough Isn't a living thing you piece of shit.

Deism is the way to go.

Something, whether it be God or an event like the Big Bang, created the universe with laws, and does not act upon it.

Now the only arguement is that God involves himself in the world somehow, which is pretty easy to dispel with SCIENCE whenever they bring up a subject.

>>11155402
you can start with that thing isnt even alive.

>>11155419
What if we're not alive?

>>11155418
>which is pretty easy to dispel with SCIENCE whenever they bring up a subject.

How is it easy to dispel?

Stephan Jay Gould was a scientist, and he didn't believe in God, but he maintained that, as long as religion isn't making any sort of claims regarding the material world (like with creationism) it can't be disputed scientifically, because science is about questions which can be answered scientifically and religion is about existential and cosmological questions which can't really be answered at all.

Non-overlapping magesteria and all that.

>>11155427
What if I shit on your face?

god is real

he put material (the universe) into the empty container the universe is expanding into (the area outside our universe) to fill it up. but we are only a byproduct of the universe material and we don't know for sure if god outside the container cares about us.

Fucking mind trip. What if we are all clay people? What if clay is people in a smaller world? What if everyone is their own god?

>>11155436

>>11155431
That reminds me of the most basic thing Christians fucked up.

I grew up in a Church of England primary school and came out of a total atheist.
How people can still believe in Christianity with its downright lies is beyond me.

The bible, the most fundamental thing in Christianity downright lies, how anyone can take anything they say seriously I will never know.

Heaven is not in the sky, Hell is not underneath us, God clearly did not create the earth in seven days.

Also note that all pictures of Adam and Eve (drawn by devout Christians infact!) have belly buttons.
That is not possible without being born, as the first humans alive they cannot have been born therefor should not have belly buttons.

Buddhists are generally non-theistic. Some Hindus also, but Buddhists especially.

They sort of skip over the question of God's existence, keeping in mind Buddha's "noble silence."

Buddha thought that certain cosmological questions shouldn't be asked, either because the answer was unknowable or it was just too confusing.

I mention this because sometimes trendy white kid pop orientalist pseudo Buddhist weeaboos insist that Buddhists are atheists.

>>11155452
You're really sweating the small stuff. There's way too many grander issues to care about.

>>11155431
I don't know what you just said, but I don't think you're argueing my point? With the whole 'who is god' out of the way, there's only the question of what he can do. That which can be explained by science is, and that which isn't can be thrown to the religious people if they want it. Science's fault for not being able to explain it.

As for people who say GOD MADE THE SUN SHINE IN THAT EXACT SPOT, once more Deism solves it. Whether it be the event that created the universe or a being, one way or another god did indeed 'make' it happen.

And if they insist he did it manually with his focus and all that shit that he's a caring blah blah blah, then they're a hypocrite because his mind isn't supposed to be able to be understood.

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORDS!
And Boredom!

>>11155453
>Buddha thought that certain cosmological questions shouldn't be asked, either because the answer was unknowable or it was just too confusing.

This is a smart way to go about things, in my opinion.

>>11155453
>Buddha thought that certain cosmological questions shouldn't be asked, either because the answer was unknowable or it was just too confusing.
Buddha must have been bad at math

>>11155456
It's the first fucking page in the Bible.
if that shit is clearly fucking wrong what makes the rest so correct?

Adults lie to children and cutesy it all up in order to convert them.
Why? if their religion is as good as it sounds why do they need to give it all the bells and whistles?

You know what else adults lie to kids about? Santa.
Is Santa real? No.

I just don't get it, the very thought of believing in religion is alien to me, it's just logically not possible for me.

>>11155452
You weren't taught very well otherwise you'd know that Anglicans aren't supposed to be Biblical literalists.

I find it hard to believe that people who actually care about abrahamic religions exist on 4chan.

I would guess most of them are trolls doing it for the lulzorz like OP. But sometimes I'm not so sure.

>>11155464
You really need to calm down and relax and open your mind a little. Edgy militant atheists are just as bad as bigoted blind faith christians.

>>11155465
See biblical literalism is a pretty new development in the history of Christianity, and as far as I know only the Evangelicals actually take the Bible literally. Roman and Orthodox Catholics don't, nor do the more traditional Protestants sects.

The precedent for Christians not taking the Bible literally goes back at least to Augustine of Hippo, who said that was a dumb idea in the fourth century. He flatly denied the Genesis account of creation ages before science had any way of explaining how the earth was formed.

What would not giving a shit whether one exists or not be called?

the path of the truNEET is the only religious guidance you need

>>11155464
>I just don't get it, the very thought of believing in religion is alien to me, it's just logically not possible for me.

Here's a question for you:

If life has no external meaning or significance, what's wrong with the religious for thinking that it does?

Some people are troubled why questions such as "is there life after death, do our sufferings have meaning, and is there final justice?"

So they turn to faith for those answers.

>>11155393

Well they're right. When he debates with someone he let's too many things slip. He is horrible at dealing with the snake oil salesmen type of people that run and plague organized religion. Hitchens, Krauss and to a lesser extent Sam Harris could do it but Dawkins struggles.

>>11155473
But there's no way to open my mind to this stuff.
The only reason why it's so fondly believed is because its old tradition which has worked its way through the world giving power to those in charge.

>>11155487
I have no problem with people having faith in something.
In fact I'm partially jealous they can live in such a lovely state of mind.
My belief of life after death is that there is none, You just cease existing, it's not a hard thing for me to understand and so I guess I don't need that faith shit anyway.

People are free to believe in whatever they want but when they start to force it onto other people or refuse to accept other people having different beliefs is when I have a problem with it.

Think about how much war has been waged because of those things.
It brings more harm than it does good.

>>11155487

A false belief will lead you to false truths. A corrupt belief to corrupt judgment. The wicked man will command you to do evils and you will do so without hesitation. TruNEET is the only way!

>>11155512
>But there's no way to open my mind to this stuff.
>The only reason why it's so fondly believed is because its old tradition which has worked its way through the world giving power to those in charge.
This is a very biased view, but I respect your opinion, especially because of

>I have no problem with people having faith in something.

I hope you have a great day and that we can all get along in the future too, regardless of what we believe in or not.

>>11155464
It's mostly symbolic.

>Is Santa real? No.
Yes, he is. There really was a gift giving bishop named Saint Nick.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Nicholas
His spirit is what causes people to give gifts during Christmas.

That little kid is a smartass faggot and I hope that old man twats him right in the gob.

>>11155512
>Think about how much war has been waged because of those things.

Religion is usually incidental when it comes to "religious" conflict.

>It brings more harm than it does good.

That's entirely subjective.

>>11155478

Welcome to nihilistic hedonism (or hedonistic nihilism, not that it matters, ha ha ha)

>>11155512
>People are free to believe in whatever they want but when they start to force it onto other people or refuse to accept other people having different beliefs is when I have a problem with it.

That goes both ways dude.

The fervent evangelization of the so-called "new" atheists is also rather tiring.

If this post ends in 5, God is real.

>>11155556
just how hard is your shit rekt rite now m8

>>11155487

As long as they understand that it's a personal hobby just like anything in life.

>>11155556

checkmate godists

I find it hilarious that /pol/ has been hijacked by neocons. I miss old /n/ and when 4chan wasn't shit.

>>11155554
That only happens in Amerka because only you give a shit dude

>>11155554
I bet some elderly people wanted to be close to that emergency exit and he wouldn't let them because he's younger and therefore more important and the idea that we should treat old people with respect is traditionalist bourgeoisie bullshite.

Cool hat, though.

>>11155556
>one off from quints
ouch, confirms it

>>11155389
He's not.

Were Adam and Eve even married?

CHECKMATE

>>11155583
If jesus didn't die then why does he consider himself a sacrifice for the sake of humanity?

check AND mate christians

>>11155546

Blind belief in something simply because you want to believe it is the same delusional train of thought that alien abductees and bigfoot chasers have. That alone is one of the most damaging things that religion has inflicted upon humanity as it forces the notion that we can ignore reality when it goes against what we want.

Although the more I think of such a thing I am beginning to realize that perhaps this is a flaw of humanity in of itself for ideologies and sycophants share the same core issue religion does as well. If this is true then we would then assume religion is awful because it preys on this critical human flaw.


>>11155569
I miss when I was part of the void and my atoms were scattered across the universe.

>>11155587
God created them married.

>>11155590
He died but he is not dead.

>>11155590
If he sacrificed himself for our sins or whatever, does coming back to life undo that?

If I was Satan or whoever, I'd call a mulligan on that one.

In this instant I am fully pleasured.

>>11155595
It's one rule for us and another for them.

Is there a name for "I literally don't care about religion or other supernatural things"?

I don't care if it's atheists, theists, or smug agnostics. I just want them all to shut up and talk about shit that's on topic.

>>11155597
>If he sacrificed himself for our sins or whatever, does coming back to life undo that?

Why would it? He died and continued under the power of death. Death is not a necessarily eternal state in Christianity.

What if a /jp/sie was a god?

If you want to truNEET it up, read ecclesiastes.

>>11155602
Whoa there, Epicurus-san. Morality is a _spectrum_.

>>11155604
Christ's elect be risen back to life after their deaths.

"And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."

>>11155595
nice comeback christian but since we didn't actually lose anything since jesus came right back (pussy wimp cant handle staying dead) his ``sacrifice'' was for naught

its like if i let somebody kill me for a million dollars then i come right back to life to spend my million dollars.

your mate is so checked nerd

>>11155593

If gay marriage is bad then how come the supreme court of God's favorite country said it was okay?

check and mate

>>11155591
>That alone is one of the most damaging things that religion has inflicted upon humanity as it forces the notion that we can ignore reality when it goes against what we want.

And how exactly do you know that the materialist viewpoint is reality? Sounds like you need to read up on Epistemology..

>Blind belief in something simply because you want to believe

That's not exactly the logic used by the religious. Try looking into Descartes if you want to know how a theist addresses the existence of God philosophically.

Descartes being the "give her le dick face" guy I'm sure you've all seen.

>>11155614
Your argument has no ground unless you can demonstrate that someone must remain dead permanently or eternally in order for it to be true that they died.

>>11155611
Agnostic atheist?

I'm sure some Tumblr nerd has coined "apathetic atheist" or something like that, and I'm sure it's ironically annoying.

>>11155620
You could try apatheist instead.

>>11155617
Satan is doing it to tempt good Christians to not #slaythegay

>>11155602
The problem of evil is kind of easy for theists to answer when one assumes that 1) free will is important and 2) the afterlife exists.

>>11155590
>>11155597
His earthly body died. It was a trade, a perfect man dying for the sins of Adam, another perfect man.

Have you guys ever read a bible or studied it? I thought it was pretty common but maybe its just for Spanish.

>>11155612

human morality*

this is kinda fun, its like im on an internet forum circa 2003 or something

>>11155392
Is it wrong that I wanted to fuck Saria less than Ruto?

>>11155611
apatheist

>>11155614
But he still killed you, didn't he? You let him kill you for that money, and that did happen, right?

It's the guy's fault he couldn't formulate a better contract. Checkmate people who don't read Terms of Service.

>>11155617
Even gays can enter heaven if they repent.

>>11155602
The Epicurus quote is meaningless as the atheist is incapable of determining whether something is good or evil, and thus cannot make a moral determination about God's actions.

>>11155608
>>11155622
But there was all this build-up and stuff.

It's like a comic book death. They're cheaper than real deaths, so it defeats the point of a character dying, especially if it's the world's most important sacrifice.

>>11155622

If he was perfect then why did it take god hundreds of generations to make him?

check and mate

>>11155402

If the pony represents humanity, then it also has no justification for believing that it was created.

>>11155633
Nobody can make a moral determination about God's action but God, if He exists, but there's no indication that He does besides "some people said so."

How is this otaku culture?

>>11155374
>mfw There are whiners about everything on OUR /jp/, including myself.

>>11155628
well then was it merely the act of killing that satisfies the contract or was it that i should stop being alive (be dead) (be not alive (be in a state where i couldn't bother people again with my living antics of being alive)

solve that nerd

>>11155633
Acts of evil contain more carbon-12 atoms.

>>11155635
>If he was perfect then why did it take god hundreds of generations to make him?

He came to start the time of the gentiles with the new covenant.

>>11155637
>Nobody can make a moral determination about God's action but God

Correct, there is no way to make an objective moral judgement without the existence of divine revelation.

>>11155633

you mean you yourself are incapable of determining whether something is good or evil, so you need cliff notes like religion.

>>11155645
Have you received divine revelation?

>>11155633
>The Epicurus quote is meaningless as the atheist is incapable of determining whether something is good or evil

Morality can exist even if it was dictated by God/the divine yet impersonal cosmos, as the religious say.

Granted materialists don't have much incentive to be moral when there's no divine retribution/negative karma that's out for them. They've got to weight what's good for the group against what's good for them.

>>11155647
Tell me how you determine whether something is good or evil, then.

>>11155625
>>11155631
I didn't really expect a serious answer. But that's interesting, though.

>>11155644

>He came to start the time of the gentiles with the new covenant.

Sounds meaningless and slightly jewey

>>11155651
>Morality can exist even if it was dictated

er, wasn't dictated

anyway atheists can be moral

>>11155657
>Sounds meaningless and slightly jewey

The opposite. It meant an end to observing the sabbaths and favoratism of the tribes of Israel.

I will answer questions about Christianity. Ask me anything.

>>11155628
Alice: Tomorrow I am giving up smoking, so I can be healthier and save money.
Bob: That's great! See you tomorrow!

The next day--
Alice: Hello Bob.
Bob: Alice! Why are you smoking? I thought you gave up today!
Alice: I did! But then I started again LOL #ownt #rekt #bobhurt

>The names of the Dieties that were born in the Plain of High Heaven when the Heaven and Earth began were the Deity Master-of-the-August-Center-of-Heaven, next the High-August-Producing-Wondrous Deity, next the Divine-Producing-Wondrous-Deity. These three Deities were all Deities born alone, and hid their persons.

No disputing that.

>>11155642
In your case, it was the killing. The guy paid to kill you, so if you died of a really bad case of explosive diarrhea it wouldn't count and even if you resurrected, you wouldn't be entitled to the money.

nice

epic

this thread is going by really fast

i feel at home right with my /a/bros

If one of the laws of nature is that physical things can't happen spontaneously, what caused the Big Bang?Either, it must've been something that can ignore the laws of nphysics, or the laws or physics is wrong, which don't believe!

Ergo, Kanako must've created the Universe. Why aren't you bowing in respect to her right now /jp/?

>>11155653

how it makes you feel personally.

of course, god made psychopaths to test our faith too.

>>11155661
What's that phrase Calvinists use to gauge each others Calvinism?

Tulip?

>>11155653

I weigh the action or whatever against my own personal morals and make a decision. How else are you supposed to do it?

>>11155661
Why is regeneration of the elect necessary if such members of the elect will be saved even if slain by a horrible fishing accident at the age of eleven?

Also please don't bump this thread, it's shit.

>>11155667
what does killing do to people?

it makes them dead

are you stupid?

he obviously didn't expect me to come back to life, retard

you are a great example of how dumb christians think

>>11155663
Because she's the second shittiest 2hu next to Sanae tied with Chen.

Can God see the future?

I know there was that one part where the Apocalypse happened, but can God canonically see ahead in time?

>>11155672
>It meant an end to observing the sabbaths and favoratism of the tribes of Israel.

Again, that sounds completely meaningless to someone who isn't a jew and isn't living in an ancient sand pit.

>>11155664
If she did give up, it's still a correct description. Duration was not specified.

>>11155684

God is the alpha and omega, so yes canonically he already planned you saying that and me replying to your post.

God has plan.

>>11155685
If it sounds meaningless to you there isn't anything I can do. A lot of people find meaning in it though, so you're wrong by generalizing it to everyone.

>>11155676
Yes, TULIP: total depravity, unconditional election, limited atonement, irrestible grace, perseverance of the saints. This is only an outline of Calvinist soteriology though, i.e., how one is saved, and is not representative of the entirety of Calvinist theology.

>>11155680
Regeneration happens before death. If an elect person was to die at age 11, he would be regenerated by the time of his death.

>>11155684
Yes.

He also created the universe knowing that lots of people would go to hell.

Did jesus allow the tender loving of children?

>>11155664
Alice: I'm going to sleep.
Bob: I guess I won't ever see you again.

The next day--
Alice: Hello Bob.
Bob: Alice! Why are you awake? I thought you went to sleep?
Alice: I did! But then I woke up #ownt #rekt #bobhurt

>>11155684
>but can God canonically see ahead in time?

The idea is that time is one aspect of the material universe, and because God exists independently of the material universe, which he created, he exists outside of time.

Therefore, God sees past, present, and future simultaneously from the viewpoint of eternity.

I'm not sure which philosopher introduced this argument but I think it might have been Augustine, who I mentioned earlier.

>>11155642
Having heartbeat stop used to be the commonly accepted definition. Things have changed recently with improved medical technology and knowledge, but this was a long time ago.
You can't make a definition based about someone never being alive again afterwards since then you would never be able to pronounce anyone dead, short of omniscience, or some way of looking arbitrarily far into the future, so you couldn't take that as a legal definition.

>>11155681
Yes, and he was dead. But then he was not.

If his expectations are different than what was agreed upon contract, that's his fault for adding meaning where there wasn't or simply not questioning enough. If anything, you're the one acting dumb here, for thinking a deal should fit your personal ideas of the outcome as opposed to what was stated by the parties.

>>11155684
In Bible Canon, yes. Even Jesus foresaw one of his Disciples betraying him.

>>11155697
>Regeneration happens before death. If an elect person was to die at age 11, he would be regenerated by the time of his death.
Would it be possible for me to kill a member of the elect prior to regeneration?

>>11155684
Yes, God knows the future, as he foreordained it. The future is set and will not changed, if it makes sense to speak of it that way.

>>11155709
No. This is not something akin to invincibility, but rather you will never do it as your actions have been foreordained.

>>11155691
Then God was a con artist. He shouldn't have made such a hullabaloo about the whole crucifixion thing.

>>11155618

If all I have to interact with this universe are my senses then trying to find the supernatural is impossible and a senseless task. If a deity truly existed and wanted to be known it would do so to me in a manner that can be comprehended within those senses. if it truly is a deity of the universe then it should by its own rules have absolutely no difficulty in doing this. Faith is insane because any deity who would want to be known would very clearly inform us. I only care for the observable world.

To answer the question of defining reality, if we are to return to the very simple "I think therefore I am" then we can assume they we ourselves exist. The next step is to determine what else is real or false by a series of tests. "Can I sense it?" and more importantly, "Will it go away if I stop believing that it is real?" If the answer to the former is yes and the latter is no then your only conclusion is that your assumption on reality must change to accept that this other object you interact with must exist also. This is partly why I believe the schizophrenic have great difficulty in life because their condition contradicts the very basics of existence.

Get on my local-universe heathens.

>>11155699
http://archive.foolz.us/jp/thread/11089707/#11090150

>>11155714
So essentially we're all characters in a story that God has written.

>>11155712
But he was only dead for three days.

I know people who've been dead longer than that. Why does Jesus get all the credit?

>>11155724
you literally told someone not to bump the thread and you've been bumping the thread ever since

why are you such a shit

>>11155712
what the... hell? i'm literally dumbfounded by how impressively circular and retarded you are

>>11155715
A con is where you give nothing for something. He did give his life, as He promised. Jesus died all the same.

You're really missing the point here.

its barely been an hour and this thread has 123 replies

I love this religion meme.

>>11155731
He didn't give his life, he took it right back or made another copy of it to stay alive.

Either way jesus is the real con man.

>>11155724
If you think about, the Bible and the events of human history fit the ups and downs of a teenager's Livejournal or fan fiction pretty well.

>>11155724
We are creatures which possess wills, which freely choose the actions foreordained for us. Our foreordained actions coincide with our nature and thus there is not contention between forordination and choice.

>>11155702
Alice: I'm going to kill myself.
Bob: I guess I won't ever see you again.

The next day--
Alice: Hello Bob.
Bob: Alice! Why are you alive? I thought you killed yourself?
Alice: I did! But then I stopped being dead #ownt #rekt #bobhurt

>>11155740
So we're internally consistent characters in a story that God has already written, whose actions coincide with their motivations.

>>11155725
Jesus doesn't "get the credit" for dying only but for what he did while alive. And he did technically die for the sake of the whole mankind, so there's that.

>>11155727
You've never done business before, have you?

>>11155735
Even if I look at it your way, it was a life and it was His. So He gave His life.