/jp/ - Otaku Culture

Learning japanese is a waste of time anyway, why don't you start studying some usefull stuff like C++.

http://www.guidetojapanese.org/
http://ankisrs.net/

No gimmicks, no fancy toys, no magical easy method. Read and do your reps.

>>11053013
SEPPLES in 2013?!

I seriously hope you don't do this...

>>11053013

I study C++ too. I would like to learn another spoken language as well tho.

>>11053019
god I love rubbing my dick all over java and gcc

>>11053015
Thank you for the website. I am currently using anki tho.

>>11053028
No. If you want to learn programming, go with one of the Lisps. Read SICP or even Land of Lisp or something.
If you just want to Get Shit Done (e.g. Web development or indie game development or some other boring hobby), learn Python.

Grammar before kanji

>>11053013
>C++

yeah, THAT won't get outdated....

unlike japanese

>>11053047
Everyone in Japan will be speaking romanji within the next ten years.

>>11053047
Have fun translating your silly VNs and anime, weeb.

>>11053038
finalize this, bitch

my garbage collector

>>11053008
kana
grammar
then kanji

better get japanese classes.

>>11053047
fuckin secondary

So which programming language should I start with?

>>11053135
None. You'll never actually create anything useful so why would you bother learning?

>>11053147
I see, thanks.

>>11053135
It really depends on what you want to do. Scripting, web development, application development, embedded software, and so on.
>>/prog/
>>/g/

>>11053060

>>11053060
Believe me, he won't be doing either. Anime translators are made up of a small group of skilled and dedicated people, and VNs take forever to translate. Something OP will never have the patience to do if he's making a thread about learning japanese on /jp/. And this is just assuming he can actually learn the language and not give up.

>>11053135
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html#skills1

>>11053060
>>11053173
Since when is the point of learning a language to be able to translate things?

I'm sure most people here are learning Japanese to consume media, not to translate cartoons for other weeaboos.

>>11053174
http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/sextips/bedplay.html

>>11053038
>No. If you want to learn programming, go with one of the Lisps.
top lel.

Learn an actually useful language like C.

>>11053173
>Anime translators are made up of a small group of skilled and dedicated people
holy shit, that is just straight up comedy

>>11053213
Then you're learning C and how to write programs. You're not learning programming any more than a ditch digger knows engineering.

>>11053229
>programming
>Lips
Oh please, why don't you tell him to learn brainfuck. It's such a beautiful concept.

>>11053229
If you want to know how programming works, then learn Assembly.

Lisp is useless, except maybe for science stuff.
Although most science people go with C since it's faster.

>>11053250
>learn Assembly
oh lord here we go...he won't understand anything. He has no idea how a computer works. He can get the basic concepts with C++. There is no need currently to understand the inner workings, unless you plan to go into compiler development, which is the most masochistic life decision anyone could decide on.

>>11053257
>oh lord here we go...he won't understand anything. He has no idea how a computer works.
Why are you being so arrogant?

>>11053244
Have you actually learned Lisp? It's not obtuse for the sake of being obtuse, it's just minimalistic (in a good way). People always talk about how C is so small or whatever, even with the standard library, but you still need 274 pages to learn it (or a 701 page standard).

You could teach someone everything about Scheme in about half an hour, and the R6RS standard is only 90 pages long (and that's mostly dedicated to the base library).

In terms of overall balance, it's the simplest and most flexible family of human-readable programming languages out there.

>>11053269
>human-readable
>Lisp
Please stop trolling.

>>11053269
You don't need to know a entire language to use it.

Actually, most programmers don't know an entire language.

>>11053269
Once he learns C he can easily adapt to 95% of all used languages. Lisp is a nice concept, and can be used quite elegantly as a proof of concept. Still today it's pointless.

>>11053250
>If you want to know how programming works, then learn Assembly.

That won't teach you how programming works. That will teach you how a Z80 works or how ARM works or how to read an x86 manual (http://download.intel.com/products/processor/manual/325462.pdf , good luck). Programming isn't about that at all.

>>11053290

Lisp is a fine language.

C is compact and easier to understand, so it would be a better starting point.

Unless is kinda subjective, it all depends on what you are doing.

>>11053290
>Once he learns C he can easily adapt to 95% of all used languages.
Not really.

Object orientation.

>>11053282

>>11053307
(********(getOnMyLevel<bro>)) malloc (1)

>>11053307
I see a smiley face!

>>11053298
It teaches you how to manually do processors' commands.
The first C compiler (and other compilers) was made in Assembly.
Also it's the most low you can get before binary.

I'm pretty sure it will teach you how programming works.

>>11053303
is a fad.

C has objects, and they're referred to as such. They're called "data structures", and they've existed since the beginning of time.

Creating MutatorMethodFactory classes is painful cruft we're thankfully starting to move away from, and all the analogies with real-world objects are very misleading. "You can have a Baker class, and it might inherit from the Person class! This is the beauty of object-oriented programming!"
No shit? I guess it was completely impossible to do set theory before object-oriented programming came along.

Similar deal for encapsulation and polymorphism. I can restrict access to any variables I like, and I can pass pointers to any function I like. I understand they have other uses, but it's mostly time-consuming busywork that makes your code annoying to maintain.

>>11053257
dude I wrote a compiler as a class exercise... and then basically threw it out right after turning it in

shit ain't hard

making a compiler competitively close to perfect is, of course, a decades-long group effort, but so are a lot of things

chip assembly-language isn't hard either, but if you aren't heavily into /diy/ and home automation (or taking a class on device drivers, firmware or on how processors work...) it is actually pretty useless as something to know as a lone-wolf individual developer

p.s. quit feeding my reply box expired captchas dammit. Frickin' site devs.

>>11053355
I'm pretty sure you did not.

>>11053355

Getting a compiler to compile quickly and generate reasonable and optimized code is very difficult.

Assembly is simple, but it becomes almost unmanageable as the project grows.

>>11053362
It's a fairly common project.

Well, not as a ``class exercise,'' but I had to make one as a final project.

>>11053362
um, yeah I did. I passed that class. (...Though not with the A grade I wanted. Oh well. But yeah I did get all the required assignments done, tyvm)

>>11053376

Congratulations

>>11053340
It's the difference between teaching someone how to use a particular model of microwave and how to cook. If you teach them how to use the microwave, they may become experts at it and know all of its settings. But if you put them in a different kitchen, with a different microwave or no microwave at all, they're fucked. You're comparing a microwave operator to a proficient chef.

>The first C compiler (and other compilers) was made in Assembly.

And then the first thing they did was to write a C compiler in C:
http://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=V2/cmd/cc.c

C compilers became self-hosting pretty quickly. And today most compilers are written in C.

>>11053349
Except anything that exists in memory to which you can store values is an object.

>>11053362
Writing a compiler isn't that difficult. It's actually one of the exercises in SICP, and that's a first year textbook.

>>11053377
>>11053376
Which language it compiles?

>>11053390
>SICP
Doesn't Lisp use byte code?

I think objects, just like variables, are a good thing.
It's just everyone abuses the hell out of them and creates hundreds of bugs and unmanageable code by spamming them everywhere and trying to keep state themselves instead of letting the computer take care of it by using a functional paradigm.

>>11053385
I don't know the exact meaning for different programming languages. I haven't read it in a while, but I believe the C standard does refer to most datatypes in memory as objects, maybe some other stuff too.

What I meant was when people talk about objects as instances of a class, as though I can't have a "monster" with "hp" and "weapon" variables and various sub-monsters without the miracles of object-oriented programming.

I'm sad you prejudged idiots don't realize how useful and efficient common lisp is.

>>11053423
No dude, don't be sad. Have you seen the average C++ or Python program?
Be happy these idiots aren't smart enough to make a bunch of awful Lisp code.
Just imagine if the average facebook user suddenly became smart enough to find /jp/.

What the HECK, guys. The OP was asking about Japanese and you all are discussing which programming language is the best for beginners? How the HECK did this thread get so easily derailed?

>>11053437
Because we have tons of threads about japanese but programming threads are more rare.
It's natural for threads to be derailed, otherwise we'd talk about the same shit constantly.

>>11053404
No. You can compile or interpret it however you like. It's a programming language, not a program. You could compile it to a bytecode or an intermediary language if you want. In fact, the final exercise of SICP is to write a compiler that compiles Scheme into C.

>>11053437
Fuck off, weaboo. This is a programming thread now.

I absolutely love how people make members of classes private then provide getter and setter methods. Talk about redundancy, which object orientated programming claims to reduce.

Once we hit the Singularity, natural language processing will make programming obsolete.

>>11053472
computer generate me a PYTHON GAME!!!

>>11053466
C has great getter and setter operators, they're called ".", "->", and "="

Maybe they'll catch on.

>>11053483
You think a post-Singularity AI agent wouldn't be able to respond to a request like that? It would do exactly what you ask, probably within seconds. Anything a human being can do, an intelligent AI agent will do better.

There are groups like the Singularity Institute and the Oxford Martin School who are trying in advance to prevent someone from asking a self-improving AI to nuke the world, or to stop the AI from deciding to itself once it has finished building a network of quantum computers. It's a very real threat. So yes, there's no reason an AI running on the fastest computer in the world (probably one it built itself) wouldn't learn English and how to make Python games. I just hope it gets addicted to your game rather than starting a nuclear holocaust so it can gather resources for space travel.

>>11053494
The languages themselves (the ones which descended from C, no idea how the other languages implement this) do provide operators to access the members, but defining a whole set of function just for the sole purpose of directly accessing a member while trying to keep it hidden is idiotic.