/jp/ - Otaku Culture

It's a traditional Chinese pattern memorization game intended to help children cope with autism.

It's a videogame.

I had S-E-X with Lucca.

>>10764446

It's a game series created by a beer guzzling Japanese dude known as ZUN

Its mostly known for its danmaku games, but it has a few official fighter games, too. The doujin games are too numerous to mention, ranging from Super Robot Wars spinoffs to 3d arena shooter games

Touhou is a series games made by ZUN that are mostly Vertical Shoot ‘em Ups games of the subcategory of bullet hell/curtain Fire. Which means that at any given moment there are hundreds of bullets trying their hardest to kill you. Some exceptions are the fighting games in where you punch/slap/kick/shoot the hell out of the other characters and the photographic games where you shoot bullets.

Besides games,ZUN has composed Music Cds and Books and comics. Also there is a shit ton of fan-made content, ranging from music, videos, games and printed works.

>>10764443
It's vidya. /jp/ is a video game board, primarily.
Welcome to /jp/.

Lurk a while.

>>10764449
What kind of game

hahahahaha

get out, newfag

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7lHJXPKoX0

>>10764460
Thank you. Where do I get started?

>>10764468
If you have no experience with SHUMPS, probably TH08 as its generally regarded as the “easiest”. It is also hands down the most complete and awesome game of the series. The fighter games are good if you are into fighters too.

>>10764474
I thought Ten Desires was "the easiest"

>>10764480
I'm just copy-pasting these posts from Something Awful. I've never actually played Touhou before.

>>10764474
>The fighter games are good

Ehhhhh

I have a lot of fun with them, but I wouldn't call SWR or UNL or soku if you prefer "good"

IaMP was pretty kickass, though, even if it made execution unnecessarily difficult for no real reason

>>10764480
Not for a first ever clear. It's the easiest if you already are familiar with STGs or touhou in general.

I think PCB is the easiest game because the bullets are sparser and a little more random, which means there's less memorization than the later games. You can easily 1CC PCB Normal on a first playthrough.

ZUN didn't quite know what he was doing until IN.

>>10764474
Is there a list of all the games?
Do I just go to the Pirate bay and find them?

>>10764494

http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Wiki

>>10764494
google.com

get out

>>10764494
Go for it.

There's also a huge pack of Touhou games (both official and fan games) at
http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=view&tid=283742

If you want direct downloads:
http://doujinstyle.com/
("Touhou [Official Games]" on the right)

>>10764487
IaMP was pretty crappy too. The "casualified" control scheme (melee and projectiles mapped to one button), the pants-on-head retarded spellcard system, and the balance issues that put MvC2 to shame, and the tiny character cast really wrecked it. I'm not a huge Soku fan either, but I'd pick it over IaMP.

13.5 seems to play really well though, even if it has parts of the idiotic "declare" system used in 7.5. I have pretty high hopes for it.

>>10764519
2013 /jp/.

>>10764519
IamP was fun as hell. I bet you're one of those nerds who think fighting games need to have 50 buttons to be tournament-worthy.

>>10764531
>>10764529
Filthy, dumb, casual scum.

>>10764487
Execution was fine. It forced you to be precise with your inputs and not be complete ass. Maybe it's just me, but I think that aside from FRCs(in netplay olol), IaMP is much harder than GG in terms of execution.

Ah yes, I remember the first time I asked what touhou was.

It ruined my life and turned me into a weeaboo.

Pic related

>>10764534
You don't know what you're talking about. Just stop posting.

>>10764540
I won't comment on the quality of the game itself... but if IaMP's execution was hard for you, you should probably go ahead and drop fighting games altogether. Might not be your cup of tea.

>>10764519

My lack of conventional fighter mechanic knowledge precludes my useful or intelligent input on the mechanics of IaMP, but or gameplay-wise, I don't really see how those things are that bad

>control scheme

How was it really a problem? Calling it casualized is kind of silly since which ability you used was dependent on distance. If anything, you might call it unintuitive

>pants-on-head retarded spellcard system

What?? The declaration system was really cool. Please explain

>balance issues

Well, yeah, I guess. I never saw any official tier lists or win rates or anything, but I was under the impression the worst character was Hong Meiling, and she was 'only' about 15-20% win rate lower than the top tiers?

I just wish they remade IaMP with UNL's cast and polished up graphics and mechanics. It's a really cool game and very fun to watch. Unlike SWR and UNL, IaMP was very fast paced

>>10764540

Well, specifically I am referring to how it registered inputs during hit stun, or block stun, I can't remember. As I recall it dropped inputs during some period there

And really, let's face it dude. Inputs should never be the biggest decider of skill in a fighter. That's like saying that whoever has higher APM should be the winner in Starcraft. It should take more than an unintuitive input system to decide who's good and who's bad

>>10764474
I read that name as "Wriggle Nightboy" and thought you had a joke translation.

>>10764549
Sorry, did I offend you? Maybe you should play some more Angry Birds, faggot. Leave fighting game discussion to players that actually take the time to become good at them, rather than playing for 15 minutes because "it has Touhou characters!".

>>10764563

Shouldn't you be in /vg/ shitposting somewhere?

>>10764559
>IaMP was very fast paced

No. Just no. It's fast paced compared to retarded SWR tourneys, maybe, but it's still slow as shit when you put it next to any non-doujin fighter.

>>10764570
Please don't project.

>>10764571

Okay, whatever, nobody cares. We're talking about touhou games here, and comparing it to other touhou games. Can you please take go back to /vg/ now?

>>10764563
Are you the same sort of person who thinks the mainline Touhou games aren't "real" STGs because they're popular outside of being STGs?

>>10764579
Not at all. I just don't think people that, quite frankly, suck ass at fighting games should be commenting on game mechanics when they don't have a fraction of a clue what they're talking about. Whether or not you enjoy a game is subjective, but shitty mechanics are shitty any way you slice it.

>>10764585

So do you feel like explaining why these mechanics are shitty other than saying "They're not like Street Fighter or Guilty Gear and you're all shit"? Or will you be going back to /vg/ now??

>>10764587
I already have, read the thread. And the fact that you mention /vg/ in literally every post you make really just makes it look like you're a recent immigrant yourself.

>>10764587
Shitty fujoshi detected.

>>10764592

/v/ detected. You're lost, go home.

>>10764591

If you're referring to
>The "casualified" control scheme (melee and projectiles mapped to one button), the pants-on-head retarded spellcard system, and the balance issues that put MvC2 to shame, and the tiny character cast really wrecked it

Those aren't really explanations, they're opinions. I can see why you would confuse the two though, as apparently people must instantly agree with you, or they are also shit at fighting games.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXbVW0KQTkw
iamp in a nutshell.flv

A STG that should've remained a STG but for some reason asmassed a bunch of autists together and created a fanbase out of the extraordinary character development, writing and compelling story the game has.

And then you get the pile of overrated crap that Touhou really is.

One of the first things that newer players notice with IaMP are the damage levels. In traditional fighting games, a quick bread and butter combo typically deals anywhere from 15-30%, depending on the situation and character. In IaMP, however, this differs dramatically. Not only are most of the combos situational, but they happen to be air to air juggles, or counterhit-only combos (see the Essential BnBs video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QOSq9fRWeA).). Because of this, many combos cannot be initiated in a ground-to-ground situation, and sometimes combos cannot be fully maximized even when one gets the air-to-air setup. This leads to situations where both players are either in neutral or jockeying for an advantageous position, with a lot of time spent upon positioning games, zoning, and evasion instead of damaging each other. For an example of this, watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r45bxfzKzD8.. This match was over eight minutes long, yet at the 2m41s mark neither player had damaged each other by more than a small amount. In most other fighting games, an entire match would have been played out already, if not multiple games.

>>10764602
Be honest here, have you even played fighting games outside of the Touhou fighters? You can't just discredit examples of good mechanics because "the thread isn't about that lol". People compare the Touhou shmups to CAVE games all the time.

To elaborate further on IaMP's broken mechanics:
- Remilia has no poor matchups, and there's little reason not to use her constantly. This isn't an opinion, it's backed up by statistics gathered from the Japanese tournament community.
- The frame delay after blocking attacks is ridiculously long, allowing even amateur players to keep their opponent stuck in the corner (unless they have remaining bombs) by spamming the same simple BnB combo over and over again.
- The movesets have an overall lack of polish, leading to hilarious exploits like Youmu's chaingrab.
- Being limited to only one super, and being forced to warn the enemy of it to boot, just makes for a boring spellcard system. If SWR/Soku did one thing right, it was changing this.
- This might be an "opinion", but IaMP, like SWR and Soku, are slow paced compared to even other doujin fighters. I'd argue that this only makes the execution even easier than it already is, and takes much of the "reflex-based" gameplay typical of fighting games out of the equation.

Game with fun, semi-serious storylines and a ton of unique fanart-genic characters. Themed after Japanese folk stories, hence the name.

Actual gameplay consists mostly of maneuvering your player character through fireworks patterns sent out by the NPCs

>>10764640
The outcome of this is clear. Many players who play fighting games do so for the rush, the satisfaction of quick action and rapid pacing. In more orthodox fighters, a match is often determined after a player makes anywhere from two to four mistakes that can cost them enough of their life to lose a round. IaMP is almost the direct opposite. Since many characters do not deal high damage, players get many chances to reset the match. Sometimes matches continue even after a player has made more than five or six mistakes, simply due to the fact that a “mistake” didn’t hurt very much. In addition, there is even a life regeneration mechanic which prolongs the matches even further! Witness the match in >>10764620, which is the longest known IaMP tourney match in the history of the game. While games no longer take as long, this match did solidify the game’s reputation as being a little on the slow side. Both players in that video are also quite skilled and were playing optimally — the game is simply designed so that some matchups end up this way.

The icing on top of the cake is that IaMP, in the vein of many doujin fighters, does not have a clock. Players are free to take as long as they wish and lame it up forever, if they so desired. There is no external factor motivating them to finish the task at hand, namely, defeating their opponent. On one hand, the combination of factors encourages a certain style of play where consistency and correct decision-making triumphs in the end. However, this also happens to work against the game, in the sense that because players are allowed quite a lot of room for error, they stand virtually no chance versus someone experienced. Consistency will always win in the end, and unless skill levels are similar (or the more-skilled person is playing abnormally bad), it becomes extraordinarily difficult for a beginner to get any wins at all against the competition.

>>10764620
That actually looks pretty even, for most of the match. I've seen one-sided stomps much worse than that.

IaMP had better music, better fights, and less unnecessary bullshit (weather system and upgrades) detracting from the play.

>>10764620
Well, at least the game's music was good.

>>10764648
In traditional fighting games, autoguard is regarded as a crutch as best and the sign of a rank amateur most of the time. After all, part of a fighting game’s mixups are high and low; players are expected to spot the difference and adjust their defense accordingly. Not only does IaMP not have universal throws, which removes one aspect of the standard trinity of mixups, but it also offers autoguard as a standard option instead of a beginner-friendly choice. To be fair, the pressure game in IaMP is rather intense and there are no distinctions between “fair” high-low games that are considered within human reaction time and “unfair” ones which are blatantly unreactable. To compensate for this, the autoguard system fills in for you and gives players incentive not to use it, as it depletes your spirit bar rather hastily.

However, in conjuction with the lack of throws and the stagger system, this makes opening up an opponent’s defense incredibly aggravating at times. Even after you guard crush an opponent and remove their ability to autoguard, they are still allowed to block either high or low; if they block incorrectly, they can still be staggered because not every high or low move hits cleanly. While staggers do allow for further pressure, it reduces the gameflow to reads and outright guessing due to the previously-mentioned unreactable speed of some characters’ mixups. Those who worked for a guard crush may find themselves frustrated at the opponent’s continued ability to defend even after being punished for doing so.

>>10764664
In addition, certain characters actually benefit by semi-option selecting a wrongblock. Obviously, crouch blocking a jump in attack is almost always bad. However, certain characters have relatively poor hitboxes on their jump attacks, and on these characters it is actually favorable sometimes to crouch block an air attack deliberately to avoid blocking. This not only allows extra reaction time for grazing, but also has the side effect of making improperly timed or extremely deep jump attacks whiff. When this occurs, the opponent can be d-bombed during blockstun, hit with a reversal if they try to attack on landing, or even flat out cross the opponent up and be hit by an attack while they are turned around in the air.

>>10764668
With as much emphasis on movement and dashing as the game has, a dedicated dash button was a fantastic idea. The original IaMP version 1.00 did not allow certain types of inputs, such as high-jump canceling with the D button or doing 3DA/B with that particular input (you had to use 6D3A/B, or alternatively 663A/B). These issues were addressed in subsequent patches and made the game a smoother experience overall. However, there are still some rather inconvenient and outright bad decisions that were never truly addressed.

First and foremost is the fact that the game has no negative edge. While this normally would be a minor inconvenience, IaMP only accepts commands for special attacks if they are inputted as distinct inputs. For example, a 236A will only register if you perform 2, 3, 6, and then A. 2, 3, and then 6 and A at the same time does not register as the correct input and will not execute the move. Although this would not cause issues in games that require fewer continuous inputs, IaMP gameflow often necessitates a series of commands at a relatively quick pace. Even the occasional misinput can alter the flow of a match due to dropping a special , spellcard, or high-jump cancel.

>>10764664
>>10764648
And this is why people that like fighting games are terrible people. You are also the game ethic that has ruined strategy games.

>>10764678
But the larger problem is not the minor inconvenience of the command interpreter; rather, it is a mechanic left over from Tasofro’s previous game, Eternal Fighter Zero: the 1 frame input gap. When coming out from hit, blockstun, or knockdown, there is a 1F period in which the game will not accept unbuffered inputs. You still have a 5F window in which to perform whatever move you wanted manually, such as a doubletapped dash, but utilizing the D button for movement means you have to have 1F precision in these situations. When examined, this mechanic makes little sense and is rather arbitrary: why provide a means to simplify movement but keep in something that renders it useless in some situations? One can argue that 1F suki “rewards” the player for using the more difficult inputs, but the overall implementation ended up making it yet another factor the players have to fight with in addition to their opponent.

>>10764639
>You can't just discredit examples of good mechanics because "the thread isn't about that lol".

Nobody was discrediting anything. I was comparing UNL to IaMP, and then you came out of left field with "Well they all suck compared to REAL fighting games." Congratulations, you have an opinion, but not one relevant to the topic

>To elaborate further on IaMP's broken mechanics:

Agreed for the most part, but

>- The frame delay after blocking attacks is ridiculously long, allowing even amateur players to keep their opponent stuck in the corner (unless they have remaining bombs) by spamming the same simple BnB combo over and over again.

That simply isn't true. Skilled players have plenty of chances to get out of unskilled corner pressure setups

>- This might be an "opinion", but IaMP, like SWR and Soku, are slow paced compared to even other doujin fighters. I'd argue that this only makes the execution even easier than it already is, and takes much of the "reflex-based" gameplay typical of fighting games out of the equation.

Again, saying that reflexes and inputs should be a be-all and end-all in a fighting is like saying RTS games should be decided by who has higher APM. It's a tool to allow you to express your skill, and it should not the be all and end all decider of a game

>>10764640

This guy provides a far more conclusive and thorough look at IaMP. It's true that it's a slow game, but I always felt that with polish it could really be something great

>>10764687
As mentioned earlier, one of the mechanics that prolongs match time is the spellcard mechanic, which not only regenerates life but also gives players access to a powerful super that can shift momentum drastically. The life regeneration aspect of the mechanic has already been discussed, but there are other problems with the implementation of spellcards in the game.

The limited access to spellcards is one of the most common complaints with IaMP. In some regards, spellcards can be considered similar to supers from the original Super Street Fighter II Turbo game: you gain meter which can be used for your one chance at a comeback, or to seal the deal on a round decisively. However, you only get to select one of three spellcards for each of your rounds. In nearly every modern fighting game, characters have access to multiple supers for the vast majority of their time on the field, and while players can technically declare their spellcard phase at any time once they have at least one stock of meter, this is obviously not in their advantage. After a declaration phase runs out, the player loses access to spellcards for the rest of the round. Not only that, but early declarations can backfire, as every bit of life in IaMP counts in the final moments of a round and even a 10% life advantage becomes significant, whereas earlier in the round a 10% difference means much less.

>>10764702
As a result, this reduces IaMP down to a game that seems very barebones and cut-and-dry in its game phases. The pre-spellcard phase is often spent focused upon blockstrings, combos, and footsies; the spellcard phase of a round can be crucial for momentum swings (a rare commodity in this game), or an important time to play denial in order to prevent opponents from utilizing their comeback factor. Although the former can be intense, preventing access to an aspect of the game until a certain time reduces the overall flexibility of the game’s flow. This could have been mitigated in a number of ways, but none were implemented in the original game. The sequel did expand upon the spellcard system by completely redesigning it so that players at least had access to multiple supers at all phases instead of merely the endgame.

>>10764681
Epic rebuttal man.

>>10764711
One of the biggest points of debate for questionable mechanics in IaMP is the guard crush mechanic. Guard crushes are considered melee-type universal special attacks that instantly reduce an opponent’s spirit to 0% when blocked incorrectly. Some are unique in how they work: Alice’s 22B is actually a bullet that deals spirit damage but can be grazed, while Sakuya’s 22A is the only double-hitting guard crush in the game with both hits capable of launching (this makes her extra good for no reason whatsoever). All of them are within reactable time guidelines for humans: some are actually quite slow (Yukari’s are 28F and 30F, which are embarrassingly slow if you’re any decent at this genre).

With a game as focused upon the netplay scene as IaMP’s, obviously there is some abuse of delay tactics by spamming guard crushes online and taking advantage of poor reaction time or input delay from the match. This, however, is a minor concern next to what being guard crushed actually does to the flow of the game. As previously mentioned, not all attacks in the game hit cleanly high or low even if they have a height associated to them. Stagger moves keep the opponent locked in standing animation for further mixup.

>>10764720
However, all of this mixup is mostly a guessing game. Since every character has at least one stagger move and one clean hit move, both at unreactable speed, the game devolves to guessing your way out of the mixup by observing player trends (will he go high 3 times in a row?) and habits. Damage is almost guaranteed during stagger mixup, and usually in higher amounts than if the player had simply elected to eat the guard crush attack. In these cases, the choices often boil down to taking the little damage to get out of a poor situation that’s implied as a followup, or having to go through that situation and hoping for the best.

Some players enjoy the stagger element of IaMP, as it allows for certain mixups that normally do not work when autoguard is in effect. Others claim that it slows the pace of the game down even further than it currently is, and reduces what otherwise would be an intricate web of spacing and zoning into a RPS-fest. Many agree that the 100% spirit damage penalty is too harsh and is far too strong for certain characters, and that it should have been made to deal a little less than that to keep the pace going.

>>10764657
I like how you completely missed the point of the link. It's one game lasting over twelve minutes. It has nothing to do with it being one-sided.

>>10764727
>I like how you completely missed the point of the link. It's one game lasting over twelve minutes. It has nothing to do with it being one-sided.

So what you're trying to say is that fighting games should never last over a minute, because then they won't be like Street Fighter?

That's a rather biased and genre-incestuous opinion

>>10764696
>and then you came out of left field with "Well they all suck compared to REAL fighting games."

Citation needed. I don't recall saying this, unless you're just twisting semantics to fit your strawman arguments.

Also, you only addressed a couple of my points (inculding the blockstring one which I highly disagree with you on). And I doubt that IaMP will be receiving any polish anytime soon, given the game's age.

>>10764556
IaMP's execution was fine, as I said. No anime fighter has difficult execution. By the way, you have really poor attitude. I bet you're one of those guys on #IaMP who complain about people being so bad, ban the new players from the server, and then complain about how there isn't anybody to play against 30 minutes later.

>>10764732
>because then they won't be like Street Fighter?

How in the fuck did you gather that from what he said? Stop with the strawman shit.

You can't honestly tell me that you think 12 minutes is an appropriate length of time for one fighting game match.

>>10764738
>Citation needed.

>>10764559

You cherry-picked my comment here >>10764559
>Unlike SWR and UNL, IaMP was very fast paced

And abbreviated it to just
>IaMP was very fast paced

Then comparing it to conventional fighting games, which nobody except you was doing up until this point, in a demeaning and dismissive way.

I am sorry Anon, but perhaps you should think comments through before you make them if you don't want to be called on them.

>>10764759
>You can't honestly tell me that you think 12 minutes is an appropriate length of time for one fighting game match.

Why shouldn't I? Were it not for the standards set by Street Fighter and other such games that *you* are comparing it to, you wouldn't know the difference.

This is why I can't stand conventional fighting games. They're all practically the same shit these days because the community is so incestuous and any real innovation, for better or worse, is derided simply because it's not "like" a fighting game they already know.

>>10764766
You should just read the giant wall of text in this thread instead of arguing about things you don't know about as an obvious complete newbie to fighting games in general.

>>10764681
Even if you disagree with him (and I do on some points), it's simply childish to dismiss him for expressing his opinion in a lengthy and thought-out manner. I appreciate that he's taken the time to type all that out, and to be open to discussion rather than argumentative.

>>10764696
>saying that reflexes and inputs should be a be-all and end-all in a fighting is like saying RTS games should be decided by who has higher APM. It's a tool to allow you to express your skill, and it should not the be all and end all decider of a game
To be fair, opposed to RTS games, fighting games are much more dependent on reflexes and inputs than strategy. It's inherent in the game design.

>>10764784

I did. And I agree with some parts of it. But it's obvious that its writer, and you for the matter, judge the game from a highly biased standpoint, as exemplified by your post at >>10764759

Imagine if I said "You can't honestly tell me you think 12 minutes is an appropriate length of time for one RTS game match." That is exactly what you are doing. The game's length is wholly unrelated to the content of quality of said match. If you want to hate the pokey gameplay and low skill ceiling, fine. But stop judging it by comparing it to your waifu fightans.

>>10764795
>To be fair, opposed to RTS games, fighting games are much more dependent on reflexes and inputs than strategy. It's inherent in the game design.

That's honestly hugely debatable. Have you ever seen good Marine micro vs Lurkers in Starcraft 1, for example? That video of a Protoss walling in an entire Zerg army with fields and destroying them with Psi Storms in Starcraft 2? Extremely good reflexes are arguably just as important to RTSs as Fighters. And that's fine, there should be room for such skills to shine, but I don't know if I'd say overly complicated inputs is the way to do that.

But I'm not a designer, so I suppose my comments should end there.

>>10764797
>But stop judging it by comparing it to your waifu fightans.

Also, I feel I should clarify this. I am not saying it's wrong to compare it in the sense of healthy design vs unhealthy design. Street Fighter, for example, is a successful fighting game for a reason, and its mechanics certainly play a large part in it. But when you make dismissive comments about mechanics that are not directly comparable, such as assuming that fighting game matches shouldn't take very long simply because most games *aren't* that long, you aren't asking *why* a match is that long, or asking if that match is interesting to play. You're just saying it shouldn't be that long because SF wasn't that long.

That is biased and leads to incestuous game design where games simply mirror eachother rather than leading to innovation.