/jp/ - Otaku Culture

i'm learning object oriented programing, its confusing as HELL

busy learning japanese

>Why don't you learn to program /jp/?
Because i'm a chronic procrastinator.

I try, but whenever I get past the first few pages of a book I forget and need to start over again.

I've completed the first 2 chapters of the C book by that one dead guy over 4 times already.

Laziness? I dunno. Been too depressed lately to give a fuck.

Why?
If you want to make a game you can just use rpg maker.

Already am.

It's kinda fun, but I'm not really progressing where I'd like to.

I tried, but then I got to recursive functions and remembered that I'm mathematically retarded.

>>10576101
This. I have had The Procrastinator's Guide to Getting Things Done on my desktop for the past 3 years and I haven't touched it once.

But I can already program

Can Sakuya teach me to program?

>you could make cool things
I honestly can't think of anything I could make that hasn't already been made.

Also >>10576101 & >>10576103

1.Because it's boring
2.I'm very lazy

programming is easy to learn.

but actually expending the effort to make something is much harder.

I am not smart enough.

I've already decided to just stick to networking and web-development, with some python/bash scripting on the side.

But I can, in fact it is my job.

>>10576134
auto shitposter for jp

>>10576158
I read the first paragraph of the foreword of that book! Am I a programming otaku yet?

>>10576080
from __future__ import 日本語
import sys as システム
各　名前　中　システムのargv:
　　印刷（名前）

http://www.code.org/

>>10576201
> not システムのアグビー：

>>10576269
Gomen.
My power-level is not high enough.

Last time I worked up the motivation to open up K&R I didn't understand how to work out the answer for the incredibly basic maths... "thing" for the temperature program.

I am AWFUL at maths. So, I'd have to learn maths first. I don't even have the motivation to brush my teeth most days, so that's out of the question.

>>10576168
I'm pretty sure that already exists.

int cock=1;
while (cock==1)
printf("del\n");

>>10576291
Was it the exercise where you have to create the reverse program, like Celsius to Fahrenheit instead of Fahrenheit to Celsius?

I had to write that down and work through it for about five minutes to get the opposite formula. In fact, I couldn't do it with proper notation, so I ended up writing a list like "TAKE NUMBER; MULTIPLY NUMBER BY SEVEN; DIVIDE NUMBER BY FOUR..." and then writing it again in reverse.

Being a shut-in has completely destroyed the mathematical part of my brain.

I know Python, it's enough for my programming needs and so there's no real need to learn anything else.
I would've learned assembly to hack VNs, but this will require learning Japanese to be of any use (what's the point of hacking a VN that you like when there's nobody willing to translate it?) and that's too much effort.

>>10576080
>lua programming lang
Silly Sakuya, Get c++, C# or Java

>>10576085
hmm
i found that the switch to OOP was odd at first but drawing pictures for the data flow helped to learn it. it's not that bad but it does take some time.

>>10576080
i do program and am likely to start working on a visual novel soon. i will probably be developing for android or windows.

> Roberto Ierusalimschy

Shalom!

>>10576085
Have fun with functional programing then.

>>10576349
>c++
why

>>10576416
Because it's a good language, nerd.

>>10576420
no it's not. It's just c with oop shittily tacked on. Literally an abomination

>>10576317
Yes, it was.

>Being a shut-in has completely destroyed the mathematical part of my brain.
Mine wasn't that strong to begin with. It's completely ruined now.

>>10576431
Yes, because having undefined behavior every other line is so much better.

>>10576444
u wot m8

>>10576444
implementation defined*

It's a feature, not a bug.

>>10576420
>>10576431

C++ is one of the earlier attempts at an OOP language and while it was good it has been replaced by far superior options for OOP like Java and C#. it is not a bad language but now it is outdated and C or C# would be a good choice and not C++. even real time games can be built with languages like C# now so the need of C++ is dying.

>>10576431
The OOP is useful. And in cases you don't need to use it, you don't have to, and your code can look almost identical to how it would in C.

haskell master race reporting for duty

>>10576092
I hate you self improvement otaku

I can't do shit without losing motivation after a few days

Hey /gp/, what programming language should I start with?

>>10576502
C

>>10576502
pascal noob -> c -> c++

>>10576502
Python

>>10576461
But all of those languages you mentioned are poor attempts at OOP, not just C++.

Smalltalk, Objective-C, Ruby and CLisp are OOP done right.

>>10576502
Lua

>>10576459
In which case you might as well write C (I guess that was your point).

"Objects" exist in C, it's just not an object-oriented language. If you're making a game, for example, you can have a coords struct with x and y variables. In turn you might have a monster struct with a location (coords), hp, strength, etc.
In fact, the simplest C++ classes are equivalent to structs. You don't need to define methods for every class, you can just operate on structs. Need a new monster? You can write a create_monster() function which returns a pointer to a monster struct. Need two monsters to fight? fight_monsters() which takes two pointers to monster structs. Maybe the function subtracts each monster's strength from the other's hp. You go, monsters.

>>10576502
Ruby

>>10576502
http://www.worldofspectrum.org/ZXBasicManual/index.html

>>10576524
Yeah, but C doesn't have classes and and inheritance which can be more useful than structs. It would be especially useful for things that have an obvious hierarchical structure.

>>10576502
LISP

I'm already a "computer scientist" but I can't even get motivated to do anything.

Help how do I stop sleeping all day?

>>10576542
You already have.

>>10576502
Assembler or c++ with lolcode

>>10576539
Reading about the multimedia capabilities of the ZX Spectum is fun stuff.
>Remember that because there is only one loudspeaker in the computer you can only play one note at a time, so you are restricted to unharmonized tunes. If you want any more you must sing it yourself.

>>10576538
You can do trees and linked lists with structs. Just have a struct contain a pointer to its parent or to the next/previous node.

>>10576502
>/gp/
Cute. /g/ and /jp/ do overlap indeed, as it turns out.

Start with assembly. Move on to C. Then Lisp. Then Python.

>>10576538
C has both inheritance and polymorphism. If you have a struct as the first member of another struct, your new struct will inherit from the original.

>>10576080
>If you spend a lot of time on a computer, it could give you something to do and you could make cool things.

That's what I thought.
Then I tried and got confused

>>10576552
They do, but there are people from /v/ swarming into /g/ and saying things like "stop posting anime, you weeaboos!!"

Its the same people I hear are destroying the rest of the site, normals who hate Japanese things and swarm 4chan.

>>10576556
Are you sure about that. I know that's how structs work in C++ but I don't know if they work like that in C.

Well, if anything, the STL library in C++ saves me quite some time in coding stuff.

Explain header files, pointers, structs, typedef, and malloc to me in a way I will understand.

I think I get everything else.

I'm trying to create chat bot AI that simulates having friends and a gf.

>>10576551
Okay? I wasn't referring to linked lists. I was referring to class inheritance. Where certain classes are subtypes of other classes and they should inherit methods and data from them and you have polymorphism.

But according to the other guy structs have polymorphism and inheritence, So, I guess I was wrong about that, anyways.

>>10576563
/v/ needs to be deleted entirely. even /b/ isn't as bad anymore.

>>10576590
congrats on getting 1/10th of the language d00d

https://audiobooks.learningally.org/BookDetails.aspx?BookID=JJ435

I really want to know what this sounds like.

>>10576594
Can you make one that simulates how a cute 2D girl would talk? With sliders for how tsundere she is, for example?

>>10576596
I can print "hello world". I even figured out how to print it in red.

>>10576607
now do it in assembly

>>10576618
.ORIG 3000
LEA R0, MESSAGE
PUTS
MESSAGE .STRINGZ "HELLO WORLD"

>>10576618
>$ cc -S coolredtextprogramimade.c

DONE

>>10576618
>>10576618
I had to do hello world and other things in assembly on a motoralla 6800. It didn't accept the mnemonics so everything had to be typed in Hex and I needed a manual side by side most of the time.

It wasn't difficult, just time consuming.

I don't understand the delusion of assembly being a difficult thing to write in, its quite easy just monotonous.

>>10576634
I don't think the meme is about it being difficult, so much as about it being the most powerful and efficient language.

>>10576594
>>10576604
←

>>10576461
>outdated
you are obviously not aware of the changes that C++11 brought.

>>10576634
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86_instruction_listings

>>10576642
I hope this guy finishes this. He hasn't spoken to us in a while.

>>10576646
>>10576646
I don't see what you're trying to convey with that link. There are many instructions, but they are additions to the base list.

It is no different from the piles of library documentations you need to sort through for other languages.

>>10576654
i felt like i made a point. however i was gone getting food for a bit.

also i am not up to date on C++. but i am also changing what languages i use or will be soon

>>10576646
Good /prog/ thread:
http://world4ch.org/read/prog/1359605422

Just about everything 'cool' thing one can think of has already been done, better than you can ever do it or alternatively in order to do it you would need to devote more man hours than are realistically possible.

>>10576634
Nah, when your eyes are tied you have to think much harder about the things you do.

For a basic example, when writing methods to multiply A and B. Everyone else in my class just used a loop and added A, B times. This works but is obviously very inefficient. To get a better method you have to think more.

Division was even trickier because I could not figure out how to shift the bits to the right using the methods I had. Because I was so limited, it took me longer to figure out a good solution, even though the obvious (but stupid), "Simply add B to itself until it's just under A" came to my mind immediately.

And this is with basic examples of arithmetic operations. More complicated things will be more challenging.

So, what I want to say is your statement only holds if you don't actually try to think very hard. If you come up with the first thing that pops in your mind, then it's just tedious. But if you try to think of an actually good way, then your limitations will make things more difficult.

>>10576703
So where's my good 3D sandbox magical girl game?

Where's my shounen fighting show roguelike?

Where's my RTS with only cute lolis?

Where's my Touhou Myst clone?

>>10576703
This isn't really true, and even if it were true, there are still benefits to programming things that have already been programmed.

The reason it's not true is since technology is expanding, new opportunities for programs are introduced as time goes on. For example, more programs making use of tablet touch interface were made when such an interface became common for consumers. Then there's also, new limits to computation. This allowed for 3D games. And then there's always niche markets that want something very specific but no major gaming company would make it because it wouldn't be profitable enough.

Another thing is, even if something is already done, you might not like some facet of how it's implemented, or it might not be available to you without paying money you don't want to pay. For example, I like the honeyview for reading manga but I dislike the way the bookmarks work. If I wrote my own manga viewer, I could fix that.

Of course, this comes with the assumption that you enjoy the process of coding itself, because making an entire application for a minor change would be overkill otherwise.

I only program if i have to do it.
I guess that's the reason why i always have to learn the programming language from the very beginning before each project.
But it's no big problem because learning programming languages is a piece of cake in relation to <real> languages.

>>10576823
I learned Japanese but I cannot learn programming even though that's what I wanted to do ever since I was 12.

>>10576307
Optimzed to:
printf("del\n");

>>10576871
I'm learning both, and now I can read simple works in Japanese without any sort of aid and I can drive my way around various computer languages. C and pointers, C++ and classes, Java and its just-go-look-in-the-documentation-and-write-long-shit-like-this. And a bit of Assembly because I was fidgeting around with circuit boards and wanted to program a simple robot.

It's rather easy to learn languages once you get one. The only thing is the initial learning curve, you need to get into the programmer logic, it works with mostly any language. What you need is a good introductory course in programming logic. I'm sure sites like Coursera have an Introduction to CS 101 that take care of that for free.

In fact I'll be less lazy and actually link you to one because I want you to realize your dreams, anon. This one is from Harvard. http://cs50.tv/2011/fall/

>>10576538
>>10576556
both you guys have clearly no idea about C.
also, long time ##c lurker reporting in.

>>10576924
>course for programming
Dude...
You just start with your "hello world" and then play around in other peoples codes, learning by doing.

>>10576590
>header files
the CPP is just doing a bunch of copy/pasting

>pointers
pointers are a way to have an indirection to an object, much like the address of a house.

>structs
structs are a way to have user-defined compound types.

>typedef
typedefs allow to introduce type-aliases.

>malloc
malloc allows to allocate a segment of memory. (yes, C has a segmented memory model, get over it)

it's not exactly hard...

>>10576963
I did both. It all clicked together better once I had actual guided logic instilled into me. You can be smart and get it just from reading code too, but clearly this anon hasn't or he would already have been programming.

It's just easier that way.

>>10576952
Why is it ##c?
Why does #c redirect to ##c?
Can't they ask a sysop to give them #c?

>>10576979

>>10576988
freenode policy

Because

1. There is nothing I could program that hasn't already been made.
2. I'm stupid, so I couldn't make anything useful anyway
3. It's incredibly, incredibly boring; I could barely get through the first chapter of SICP.

>>10576969
Thank you, but these are the bits I get.

Rather, I understand what they do, I just don't understand what they're for. I mostly get the syntax, I just don't get the concept. K&R assumes a lot in the later chapters. I've programmed before, but not in any proper language that expects me to know about memory allocation or how a stack works.

I could just look at real code I guess, but I'd appreciate it if someone could give me some quick examples of each and how they're useful, or if anyone could recommend a different book that goes over some of the same concepts in more detail (Applied C is a book with a title that sounds like it might be what I'm after...is it good?)

>>10577001
Is SICP a real thing? I always believed it's just for trolling and posting it ironically.

>>10577004
first off, C has no stack.
if you're just starting to program, read SICP or propably HtDP first. seriously. for learning C the only sane option is K&R and a copy of the latest std-draft. also make sure to do /all/ the exercises and have them looked over by the ##c folks.

>>10577017
You can accomplish two tasks at the same time this way.

>>10577017
http://deptinfo.unice.fr/~roy/sicp.pdf

>>10577020
If C has no stack, why do i always get a stack dump thingy?

>>10577017

Of course it is.

Whether it's really worth reading or not, I don't know. But it's boring as fuck.

>>10577035
because you're confusing implementation with specification

>>10577020
>first off, C has no stack.
I mean the data type in general. One of the K&R programs does something like copying a string by pushing and popping a stack. I vaguely get it, but I'm not confident.

>if you're just starting to program, read SICP or propably HtDP first.
That sounds like it might be good. I guess it's the programming itself I don't fully understand, not the language.
Do SICP and HtDP cover these things? Or are they going to assume I already know certain aspects of programming or mathematics?

>make sure to do /all/ the exercises and have them looked over by the ##c folks.
Would they be fine with that? I imagine it's something they get a lot. Is there a #c-beginner or something? Whenever I ask for help in IRC and people are nice to me, they say confusing things.
I came across some solutions to the exercises once, they were helpful. Although, I remember one of the earlier exercises pretty much required some sort of loop before loops were introduced, or something like that.

>>10577031
Why would you ever want a html2pdf version?

http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book.html

>>10577051
Ack, sorry, that's the one I was looking for. I just opened up the first result, knowing there was a better one out there.

>>10577045
> Or are they going to assume I already know certain aspects of programming or mathematics?
SICP does assume some basic math knowledge, no idea about HtDP. other than that, they require no prior exposure to programming.

> I imagine it's something they get a lot.
every now and again there is someone posting his solutions to the exercises as he works on them over the course of a couple of weeks. the people are usually pretty supportive.

>Is there a #c-beginner or something?
yeah, but it's shitty. just don't be a "retard" and ##c will treat you nice.

>I came across some solutions to the exercises once, they were helpful.
they probably weren't, though. only a very little percentage of people seem to be able to truly master C, and that usually tends to show in even their smaller programs. it's not due to a lack of ability, but rather due to a lack of desire.

>>10577045
>Or are they going to assume I already know certain aspects of programming or mathematics?
Hehehe. I hope you like series and extrema applications.