/jp/ - Otaku Culture

God isn't real.

god no. hell no.

>Japan Religious: 23.5% Non-religious: 75% NEET: 1.5%
Religion, not even once.

>>10498531
Why not?

Do you have any more of those images? We should have a 3D shrine maiden thread.

If religion is my dick and /jp/ an 8 year old shota and that shrine maiden had a pussy wide as ...

>>10498536

simply just because.

I like how they do religion in Japan, they keep the ceremony (usually a weird blend of a bunch of traditions), but don't actually take the beliefs seriously.
That is the best type of religion.

I'm pretty much an atheist myself, but
>huehuehue god's not real stupid christniggers xD xD
You people are an embarrassment.

It's about even split between shinto, buddhism and taoism.

>>10498547
When was the last time you saw that type of thing posted unironically?
Never. Stop inventing things to get angry at.

>>10498547
That's it, keep calling people who aren't brainwashed sheep "edgy". Maybe they'll stop and give into religion!

>>10498546
If they didn't take the beliefs seriously then why do they keep up with the ceremonies?

I'm a buddhist

Why is Tokiko so offensive, /jp/?

>>10498557
Why do non-retards (a.k.a. gnostic atheists) celebrate Christmas?

>>10498557
Because participating in ceremonies is fun.

>>10498557
Ceremony and tradition are great morale-boosters.

>>10498555
>brainwashed sheep

Are you implying that theists can't think for themselves?

>>10498562
Didn't you get the memo that Christmas and other such festivities are mostly celebrated for their commercial aspects these days?

>>10498550
>dannychoo
I'm not saving that shit.

>>10498557
It creates a sense of community and belonging.
It's fun.

>>10498546
You mean like how most Western countries celebrate Christmas, Easter, Halloween, Pancake Day (Shrove Tuesday), St.Valentines Day, and St.Patricks Day?

>>10498576
Watermarks are inexcusable. And it was low-res anyway.

>>10498558
Are you a real Buddhist or a trendy white kid pop orientalist pseudo-Buddhist?

>>10498547
but christianity's idea of god and shit about afterlife is not real. if you go "well, i don't believe in god but i respect your opinion" then you are just spineless faggot, not atheist and not even an ideological man. you are just a fag.

>>10498579
Yes, like that.
But the proportion of seriously religious people in the East is much lower than in the West, and that's better.

>>10498585
I'm neither, I just wanted an excuse to post Shou

Speak none but good of the gods.
We can have no opinions about Truth.

I'm a Christian Qabbalist, I value the Truth of God before all else.

>>10498546
>That is the best type of religion.
The point of having a Religion if youre not going to practice the beliefs

>>10498585
Please don't bully Shii.

>>10498562
>gnostic atheists

The stupidest kind.

Ask Sagan, or Tyson, or Habermas, or Gould, or Zizek...

>>10498562
American Christmas isn't Christmas (It was supposed to be in April too)
>>10498563
>>10498577
No, it isn't fun at all.

>>10498595
See
>>10498577
>>10498565
>>10498563

If i have attained satori but don't actually believe in nirvana, Buddha or noble way, would i be perceived as a religious man i wonder?

Before anyone interludes, there's no me, it's just a form of speech.

What if I formed my own belief out of boredom and don't follow any established religion? My god only cares about space, by the way.

>>10498602
>No, it isn't fun at all.
Lots of people disagree. Fortunately for you, nobody seems to forcing you to participate if you don't find it that way.

>>10498547

I used to enjoy the whole theism v atheism debate back in the early 2000s when it was all the rage on the interweb forums, but this is 2013. Theres no point arguing ecumenical things when religion itself is filled with fantasy and personal biases based on horrible logic and lack of study. Atheism simply asks people to look at and consider the faults.

>>10498602
They are fun you miserable sod.

>>10498579
>most Western countries
You mean America and Canada?

>>10498606
Don't think so, just an enlightened being

Is anybody else offended that hardcore religiousites aren't trying to convert you?

I mean, I've met people who follow a religion that says non-believers get punished in terrible ways, and follow teachings that say non-believers should be converted. So, upon finding out I'm a non-believer, why the fuck aren't they doing everything they can to get me to join them? Do they not _believe_ I'll suffer some horrible punishment? Do they not care, in religions which are supposed to teach some level of altruism?

If I was a psychic and I met a complete stranger and knew he would be tortured later that day, I'd do everything I could to stop that from happening. And I don't even have moral teachings to follow, I'd just do that because I'm not a dickhole.

>>10498602
>No, it isn't fun at all.
Some people think so. They're probably the ones participating in the ceremonies.

My mother sings in the church choir. She's not religious. Every Christmas day I go to church at 5 in the morning ("Julotta") and listen to her sing and the priest say mass. It's nice, but I'm not religious.

>>10498610
>Lots of people disagree
Show me one.

They do that shit because they believe in it.

>>10498613
Does Europe not exist any more?

>>10498616
Because they know you won't listen.

You're a lost cause.

>>10498611
These flame wars have literally gone back millennia, and in their modern form centuries.

13 years is nothing, dude.

>>10498613
My European country celebrates all of these, and we are less than 40% theist.

>>10498619
No one cares about New Arabia

I'm catholic because I like to pretend I'm a paladin

>>10498586
Not everyone is autistic enough to care so much about people being wrong like you do.

>>10498617
>It's nice
You poor thing.

>>10498618
The other day, I went to a temple, washed my hands and mouth, put a coin in the box, picked up an omikuji, thought about purchasing an ema tablet and declined. A good time was had by me. However, I am not a Shinto practitioner. There. One.

>>10498624
Cool
Do you own swords and a templar robe
And pratice Jesus magic

>>10498603

Lol, you don't need a religion to go outside and communicate with people. Most people get bored of church and seeing their neighbors every Sunday.

>>10498626
You're a cool guy, I like you.

>>10498619
Which European countries do all that comercial American shit?
>>10498622
Sorry but your country is pretty much an American colony.

>>10498629
You did all that alone?
Ask me next time, I'll come with you.

>>10498611
>horrible logic
>lack of study

Because there's no such thing as a smart theist, is there?

Never mind all of the theistic philosophers out there, Descartes, Swinburne, Hick, Platinga, Mackey, Kai, Davies, etc.

No, they're all terribly stupid people.

You know /jp/, religion is about the resolution of existential crises.

It answers questions like

do our sufferings have meaning?

is there life after death?

is there final justice?

Those aren't stupid questions and people aren't stupid for turning to spirituality for answers.

Look at the atheists here >>10498597

They reject spirituality but they don't treat it condescendingly, because they know those questions are extremely important to some people, and there's nothing wrong with that.

>>10498636
Nobody said or even implied that it's impossible to meet people or have fun without religion.

>>10498629
Yeah, now go do this shit every week.

If the Japanese arent religious then why are Temples,Buddha and Jizo Statues omnipresent

>>10498637
UK, Ireland, France and Germany are the ones I'm sure about, but I'm sure many more countries do all that stuff too.

>>10498647
They look cool as fuck.

>>10498640
My brother went with me. "The other day" was actually years ago, I'm pretty far from it now.

>>10498630
I don't own swords, but I practice shooting with my dad a lot and have a basic conception of how to fight with a Bowie knife thanks to my dad as well.

I'm currently working on joining the Knights Templar, and they have some really cool robes and and hats. Of course I still need to get my 3rd degree in Masonry before I can do that.

>>10498647
While a majority of the population is agnostic they are still sort of religious insofar as it's part of their culture.

>>10498637
But they are all traditions from before the US was even founded, apart from Valentines, which almost every country, even Japan, celebrates.

>>10498646
There isn't a Shinto shrine in my city at the present. Even if there were, I don't think most visitors people visit the shrine on a weekly basis.

>>10498653
The last I checked the Catholic Church wasn't especially fond of the Masonic order.

>>10498642
>do our sufferings have meaning?
Pain and depression are evolutionary traits that help the species survive
>is there life after death?
No, unless you consider having your atoms become part of another living thing a type of reincarnation
>is there final justice?
Justice is subjective

No religion needed.

>>10498642
>is there final justice
That's what always turns me away from religion. The 'justice' in religion is always horribly unjust and biased.

>>10498653
Pretty sure you can't become a Mason unless your dad or next of kin is a member.

Though here in the UK they introduced some student scheme, so you can become a pseudo-member if you want to get brainwashed at the age of 20.

>>10498662
See, some people don't accept those answers. Those questions can't be answered objectively, so people will always turn to religion for the answers they'd prefer.

>>10498662
"Why does anything exist" seems to be one of the questions that will strictly be the purview of religion.

>>10498657
Does Sintoism require worship every week

Because Christianity does

>>10498648
I'm pretty sure most European sell shit related to those "traditions", but this doesn't mean European people actually practice them.

>>10498674
It barely requires anything.

>>10498675
*European countries.

You all know why religions exist.

>>10498664
Whose justice? The justice of fundies?

>>10498684
It's not a lie if it's unfalsifiable.

>>10498675
European here, I practice 4 out of 6 of those festivities.

>>10498660
There's a lot of Catholic Masons, it's more of a personal morality thing. I take up the strong/weak brother argument derived from St. Paul. Basically there's nothing in the Bible forbidding it, so if you don't feel it's sinful than it's okay to do it. There's also a buttload of Catholics who don't confess, don't go to mass regularly, and use birth control.

I know quite a bit about Masonry and there's absolutely nothing in it that contradicts Jesus, Christianity, or the Catholic Church in any way except that it makes a few hire ups in the church nervous because they think it threatens their authority.

>>10498684
a) The Nazis systematically killed six million Jews
b) The Nazis did no such thing and it was all hearsay

Which is which?

>>10498684
Lots of gnostic theists in this thread.

I'll never understand how someone can claim to be so focused on objectivity while claiming to have answers to unanswerable questions.

>>10498519
yes also fuck edgy teen militant atheists

>>10498684

Religion is a cultural thing

>>10498519
>>10498550
You can't see their armpits, it must be some scam temple for undiscerning tourists.

Too many coincidences.

There must be a greater entity, but it may be just another race of super-intelligent beings that created us and are just as alone as we are.

And it doesn't imply someone/they care about humankind, or that what happens daily is not just an obvious product of interactions of matter and physics.

Too much wine.

>>10498668
That's complete bullshit. It's amazing how much people don't understand about Masonry and how many misconceptions there are.

Masonry is entirely based on free will. There are no invitations, there is no legacy membership, and there's no such thing as a "pdeudo-member" in any of the official Lodges. I won't go into how you join because I just can't do that, but I can tell you it's not through invitation and if you're interested then please research on your own and come to your own conclusions.

>>10498697
Because you have to have some foundation to go on. You probably believe the sky is blue for sure, they just extend that out further.

The only other solution is to be like that Greek philosopher who questioned everything (even the need to question everything) and his friends had to stop him from walking off cliffs and stuff.

>>10498690
Masonry is a jewish organization originated from Baphomet(a semtici deity) worship by heretic templars in the Levant

>>10498685
If you do what's 'right' according to any popular religion, you'll essentially be getting rid of any opportunity for happiness or individuality just to please something you're not even sure exists. If no system of punishment existed in the afterlife that exists according to these religions, maybe I wouldn't be wary about getting involved with them. In general, I do not believe punishment can ever be fair, but religious people always have such a severe obsession with making people suffer for their mistakes.

>>10498690
I just remember hearing about some Bishop who excommunicated some Masons for something to do with their Masonry.

Actually I think that Bishop was later excommunicated himself for being one of those fundie super traditionalist Catholics but those earlier excommunications of his weren't revoked by the Vatican.

>>10498710
A lot of athiests are big on punishment, too.

>>10498704
I think our creators don't even know about us.
They just set off a simulation with a bunch of physics rules and left it to run, life was an accident.

>>10498697
>gnostic theists

Uh I mean gnostic atheists.

>>10498706
Descartes also questioned everything. He remained a very devout Catholic though.

>>10498662
>Justice is subjective
it's not, do you even philosophy? obviously not

>is there life after death?
>No
you can't prove it or disprove it

>No religion needed.
opinions

>>10498713
A lot of people are big on punishment

>>10498713
The social justice movement is a type of religion

There is no god.

>>10498713
I'm not an atheist either. I prefer to not even think about things. I have no real stance, just complaints.

>>10498704
>There must be a greater entity,

unmoved mover and all that

I believe there is one true God. I just don't know which religion is right.

>>10498611
>religion itself is filled with fantasy and personal biases
ever heard about scholasticism? aquinas? ockham?

fuck off

>>10498722
Why was your mother calling out for him then when I banged the shit out her yesterday

>>10498727
Then what gives you the impression there's a one true God, fagstorm?

>>10498723
>I have no real stance, just complaints.
Stances are hard to keep. Complaints are easy to make. I'm in the same boat.

>>10498714
The constants of the universe seem to be "just right" for life to form. Are we lucky or what?

I believe that Shinto is the one true belief system.

>>10498718
Please elaborate both on how justice is objective and on how electrical pulses in our brain travel, still organized, elsewhere after death.

God is such bully, we did he made me so shitty, he is a sick motherfucker with a fucked up sense of humor

>>10498735
Everyone should just line up behind this guy. It would make the world a lot simpler.

>>10498736
When you die, you reach the afterlife. The electrical signals that form your consciousness travel through the fifth dimension into heaven. The end.

>>10498705
somebody already did a few months ago, on some thread somewhere on 4chan, don't remember where. they broke mason code and posted the lolsecret mason writings, while others said all you've got to do to join is just go up to your local lodge and ask. that simple.

>>10498734
>The constants of the universe seem to be "just right" for life to form
I disagree, if the constants were different, we'd just end up with a different type of "life", probably a type unfathomable to us, since we're pretty used to our set of physics.

>>10498740
Shinto lore is also way cooler then abrahamic religions.

>>10498642

I can appreciate some eastern religions, and recognize the time and work that went into creating the stories in religious books, but people are working off faulty logic when they think that putting their hands together will make things better.

I can understand the camaraderie and joy that can come from singing with others in pews. But trying to convince people that God exists and that our ancestors seemed to talk to this dude on a regular basis back when people couldn't read or write just sounds off and makes me respect scientists a lot more.

Being spiritual is better, its a more personal endeavor when you're spiritual and you arn't as likely to inflict your beliefs on others. Being a positive person with odd beliefs still can make people happy and can ultimately help others.

But when people say "God works in mysterious ways" I take that to mean you have no idea what you're talking about but just want to feel safe and convince others of what you think is right. I can understand that, but I can't support it.

>>10498736
>Please elaborate both on how justice is objective
No, do your own homework. read the fucking nicomachean ethics and then come back.

>>10498727
>I just don't know which religion is right.

Does it matter?

All of the major religions are inclusivistic, to varying degrees.

Christianity and Islam tend to be less so than the others, but they're inclusivist none the less, what with Augustine (the primal Christian philosopher and theologian) saying that the righteous unbaptized will ultimately be saved, and Islam teaching that, as long as you submit to God you're a really Muslim, even if you don't profess to be one.

>>10498732
He probably goes by the Cosmological argument
e.g. by the laws of physics, things can not cause themselves/happen spontaneously without cause, therefore the Universe could not have created itself without some no-physical being/force.

'Course there are plenty of objections to this.

>>10498735
>>10498740
Shinto is a shitty buddhism rip-off.
Fuck off.

>>10498744
Some constants would result in minor changes like that. With other constants dumb things would happen, like stars never forming.

>>10498694
c) The Nazis systematically killed eleven million people

>>10498708
It's not a Jewish organization any more than the Catholic Church is. It was "officially" started by the British in the 18th Century, and uses signs and allegories based in large part from Qabbalism, Christianity, and various esoteric orders from ancient times. I can see people coming up with bullshit like worshipping Baphomet because of certain signs like the upside down Pentagram which Masonry uses. But it's important to realize that the Pentagram was also used as a Christian symbol hundreds of years before "satanists" used it.

Templars are separate from Masons, but they often share members.

>>10498756
Not even close.

>>10498756
Shinto is better than Buddhism :)

>>10498736
>and on how electrical pulses in our brain travel, still organized, elsewhere after death

According to the religious the consciousness survives death because the soul cannot die. The soul being the spiritual half of the human person, which has nothing to do with brain activity.

>>10498756
you don't what you are talking about, faglord

I ever wondered if I am the only free willed being here and all people around me are just an illusion. What if all of this was just a dream?

>>10498752
>as long as you submit to God you're a really Muslim
as long as you submit to Allah, you mean. muslims and jews/christians don't share the same god. sure, on paper muslims like to say that their god is the same god of abraham, but if you study and do the research, they are definitely not the same entity.

>>10498759
was just takin the piss m8
Thanks for the info though, I don't know shit about Masonry

>>10498750
>makes me respect scientists a lot more.

Non-overlapping magisteria anon.

Science and religion have fuck all to do with each other. Science answers questions that can be answered scientifically, through observation and experimentation, and religion pursues answer to questions that cannot be objectively answered at all.

>>10498760
>>10498764
Ripped-off Gods, creatures, stories...

Yes, totally not a rip-off.
Now go worship your shitty "religion".

>>10498765
solipsism

>>10498747
It happens, some take Masonry more serious than others. It's not impossible or even that difficult to look up all the DEEP DARK SECRETS of Masonry, but what you get out of Masonry is exactly what you put into it. It's the same reason why Sunday School Teachers and Priests have very different lives despite both of them getting their teachings from the same book.

>>10498772
LEL
go do a google research on shinto/buddhist syncretism before shitting from your mouth, dumbass

>>10498768
Oh boy, looks like we have one of those "moon god" people here.

You realize that all of that is based on really shitty scholarship and that real academics totally reject those arguments, right?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allahs_Moon-god

>>10498772
Oh, don't forget the ideology.

>>10498773
I didn't know about this, thanks Anon

>>10498765
This is only the case on /jp/.
You are our number one poster, since you are the only poster.

>>10498776
Already did.

Hey no need to be butthurt about your shitty rip-off religion.

http://www.vhemt.org/

>>10498781
Is there a reason you're trying to troll Shinto loyalists? You know we don't actually have any, right?

>>10498784
I take offense to that, my Japanese spirit is very strong. I worship Amaterasu every day.

>>10498786
My utmost apologies.

>>10498781
you are so crearly butthurt, you feel the need to distort the facts to try to insult the glorious Shinto religion, unfortunately for you, your shitty attempts are as sucessful asa housefly biting an elephant

>>10498781
Look, after a while Shinto and Buddhism eventually became so deeply entwined as to be inseparable, but that isn't to say that one was based off of the other. That's just ridiculous.

>>10498783
This has to have some element of irony to it, I'm sure of it.

>>10498777
have no idea what you're talking about dude.

maybe "research" was the wrong word. more like the basic precepts:
christians: god is love, god one person in 3 parts, god is intimately knowable
jews: god is judgment, still waitin' on that messiah
muslims: god is abstract, not a person, not knowable, god loves, but abstractly, there is no intimacy

they aren't the same god.

>A wild religion thread appears!
>rest of the board grinds to a halt

orz

>>10498794
You just have to join the party

>>10498789
http://www.vhemt.org/aboutvhemt.htserious

It makes sense that people like this exist and would have banded together eventually.

>>10498794
Everyone has an opinion on religion, apart from the most apathetic of the apathetic.

I'm a level 90 shinto priest

>>10498794
Who are you quoting>

>>10498793
But Muhammed said it was the same God. They all believe in a single omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, eternal, and perfect creator entity. They just don't quite agree on some of the finer details.

>>10498734
>>10498744
>>10498757

We're not in the infinite number of universes where we don't exist. So of course we will think we are lucky when we exist or can experience something, since we haven't been able to exist for possibly a lot longer than just 14 or so billion years, possibly in many more universes than just the human-observable one

>>10498797
You should rejoice that we even have this thread. Normally, the Janitor of Impending Doom deletes any threads that have more than thee posts per minute and aren't image dumps, so this board feels even more dead than usual lately.

>>10498781
byakuren pls go

>>10498803
What are your skills

>>10498806

>But Muhammed said

>>10498793
Dude, what. Christianity is derived from Judaism, and Islam is derived from Judaism and Christianity. None of the religions deny this. The Quran pretty much gives a shout-out to the other Peoples of the Book (Christians and Jews) on the first page.

>>10498806
>But Muhammed said
yeah, that would be what i mean when i said "on paper".

There's lots of Catholics in anime and manga. Hellsing, Planetes, 20th century boys, Railgun, and so forth.

Then there's that one that's set in a Catholic school.

I guess the Japanese are more familiar with Catholicism on about of its 500 year history with their country?

reminder that ZUN!bar died for our sins

Yeah I guess.

>>10498786
Do you also summon susano with your sharingan?

>>10498830
what a half-assed reply

>>10498825
FYI, Chiune Sugihara is regarded as a Saint by some Orthodox Catholics, though he hasn't actually been canonized. Although that might not matter because the Orthodox Catholics have a much simpler canonization process than the Roman Catholics so if someone's treated like a saint they're basically a saint, I think.

>>10498830
>>10498834

ur both half-assed replies, im gonna fuck ur butts

>>10498819
jews and christians are rather close kin, yes. but both are pretty distant from muslims in a lot of ways. iirc, muslims consider themselves the sons of ishmael, whereas jews/christians are the sons of jacob/israel. both are sons of abraham, but the two sons split pretty irrevocably in life.

>The Quran pretty much gives a shout-out to the other Peoples of the Book (Christians and Jews) on the first page.
and then proceeds to spend many more pages about killing the infidels who don't believe in the one true religion as muhammad set it forth, which would include jews and christians. muhammad's tolerance to other religions changed over time, from what i understand.

>>10498841
no u jerkface

>>10498843
mind blown