/jp/ - Otaku Culture

>So how are those reps coming along?
Never missed a day.
>What decks are you currently using?
RTK 1 (all cards mature), Tae Kim Clozed Delete, corePLUS
>How harshly do you grade your reviews?
For RTK and Tae Kim I mark all cards as good and review them again on my own if I get one wrong. For corePLUS I mark all cards as hard.
>Which is better, Anki 1.0 or 2.0?
I don't know. I use Anki 2 and it works fine for me.

I'm only using KD for now. Learning 10 kanji per day. I'm at 10%. I've decided that I'm going to start writing kanji down so I can memorize them better, since I've been having some problems with recent ones.

I can't wait for this thread to develop... been anticipating it for the last couple of days or more, since I'm new to this anki thing I just want to lurk and grab all hints. Bookmarked!

What are some good starting decks, for vocabulary and kanji?

Btw, I think pic is very much related to this thread.

The semantic (meaning-based) memory is much more powerful than the visual memory. If you're having trouble with the kanji, try spending some time creating more unique stories/mnemonics. Writing them once can help, but more than that can often just eat up time unnecessarily

>>10394217
Glad you were looking forward to it!
My personal recommendation to you would be to purchase a copy of Heisig's Remembering the Kanji and use that in combination with the RTK Anki deck to begin learning the kanji.

Once you're through with that, a lot of people like doing both Tae Kim's Clozed Delete deck for grammar and the corePlus deck for vocabulary.

That's pretty much a good starting point

>>10394234
This was meant to be a response to >>10394206

>>10394217
My personal tip for you is NEVER allow yourself to fall behind.

No day is important enough for you to say "Ill catch up tomorrow"

It will only lead you to pain

>>10394275
Immersion. Immerse yourself with japanese content, and vocabulary will naturally come.

For all of you out there doing the corePlus deck, how do I approach it? I understand with the RTK deck and the Tae Kim deck that I first need to learn material in both RTK and Tae Kim's grammar guide before I start SRS'ing, but am I supposed to study the corePlus vocab before SRS'ing as well? If so what is a good place to initially learn the vocab?

>>10394275
How I study it:

First I changed the card layout so there is no furigana on front, just the expression itself. I also moved the sounds to the back of the card so they only play when I see the answer. So when I study I just see the word on the front and I have to give the reading myself. Also I only included the audio for the words. I bypass the example sentences because they generally include words I don't know yet, so it makes them a pain and it would take me too long to read them. So I'm going to read through them later. I'm going through Tae Kim on the side anyway so I'm getting lots of sentence practice.

>>10394217
For kanji, there is Kanji damage and remembering the kanji (RTK). Both seem to be popular here.

When I started out a few years ago, I did RTK. The good thing about RTK is that you learn how to write and recognize all 2000~ jouyou kanji in very short time, using mnemonics. The downside is that it doesn't teach how to read them. But when you start vocab, everything will be easy and you'll know all kanji.

You should probably look those up, and decide what's best for you and your goals.

As for vocab, search for the "core 2000" and "core 6000" decks in anki. When I used them, I deleted all cards the weren't sentences. But I already knew some when I started.

I never studied grammar, but there is that Tae Kim that you can search for. I don't know if it's any good though.

>>10394292
Also I set my time intervals to 1 15 45 120. I hit 1 min. over and over until I am able to recognize the card several time in a row and then let it progress through the rest of the intervals. The 120 intervals forces a 2 hour wait so that I can have some more SRS before it goes to 1 day.

>>10394234
My issue is that I do want to learn how to write kanji, and I've figured that writing them down would be a good idea to help with the mnemonics. Also, when I write the kanji down, I usually repeat the kunyomi, the onyomi, and the mnemonic so I can clearly remember it. First, I write the kanji in a big proportion, then I write the mnemonic below it, by the right, I write the onyomi, by the left, the kunyomi, and by the top, the meaning. And then I start writing the kanji itself in a small proportion several times while repeating to myself those things.

>>10394245
Thanks dearly, I will probably follow your advice in its entirety.
Just one thing though, I suppose I could find a digital (pirated) copy of that book somewhere in the depths of internet, right?

Personally I like Anki v2 better. I like the way it does intervals better if you happen to miss a day.

Also do your reps!

>>10394294
Tae Kim is gold. For those just starting out with the language the guidance is well laid out and will help facilitate the rest of your Japanese studies
>>10394299
You're gonna kill yourself if you try to learn readings, meanings, and writing at the same time. I would save readings for when you start doing vocab/sentence decks, as the readings will come naturally
>>10394302
You are very welcome.
There are definitely pirated versions of the book, but if you can afford it, I would recommend purchasing a real copy of it.
You will be spending a lot of time with it, and I personally find holding a hard copy to be more enjoyable than using a digital version

So for you RTK1 users.

What is/was your average "new kanjis" per day?

I've been hearing everything around 5/day up to 100/day

>learning a language that is going to be dead in 100 years

>>10394302
There is a pdf-sample, I think, that you can look into before you buy it. If you really can't afford it, there is a torrent somewhere, I'm sure, but a real book is more enjoyable. I promise you.

>>10394332
Well seeing as I'm going to be dead in less that I don't see how this is in any way germane to my situation

>>10394332
Ill be dead in 100 years

>>10394321
For the first 1500 I did 50 per day, then I switched to 100 a day for the last 700.

>>10394337
*than that

>>10394337
>>10394341
>resigning yourself to an early death when biological immortality might be right around the corner

>>10394321
Started out 50 for about the first 1000 then dropped to 30. It's not that learning them is so bad, but if you start going higher than 50 a day your review count can shoot up like crazy

What dictionaries (if any) do you guys use when you find unusual/unkown vocabulary, kanji or sentences (as in grammar points) in your cards? Do you just ignore what you don't know completely? Do you try to guess based on context? If you do use a dictionary, hints about online free dictionaries are preferred, but printed ones are okay too.

>>10394321
Start low. I warn you, man. Then increase the number if you can handle the reviews. It's all about how much time you are willing to spend on reviews.

>>10394347
And if anyone is going to discover that cure it will be Japanese, who will only dispense the serum to citizens. In order to attain citizenship, I must first learn Japanese. Q.E.D

>>10394353
Jisho, wakan and Rikaichan.

>>10394321

I think the far I went was 50/day. Now at 1100 I'm doing 20/day, never did less than that.

>>10394353
jisho or wwwjdic are my preferred dictionaries.

jisho has a nicer layout and will display nice results for the not so weird words, but wwwjdic usually has slang or sound effect type stuff that i'm not sure about

I'm doing a the 3300 四字熟語 deck, a custom vocab deck for 漢検２級 and 準２級, and a kanji deck of around 2.6k.

>>10394353
>>10394362
^^Rikaichan (Rikaikun on chrome) is definitely nifty and accessible, and it can speed up your reviewing process by a ton

>>10394353
If you know enough japanese: http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/
I love that there is etymology for some words, like:
黄昏

>>10394384

>>10394393
I tried to post something yesterday and it gave me a blank post afterwards. I don't know why.

>>10394390
Why the hell can't I post it ...?

>>10394360
*the Japanese

I haven't opened anki in months.
suck my cock

>>10394364
It's great to know that. Most dictionaries ignore onomatopoeia and slang completely, which is very troubling and annoying, specially when watching subtitled movies or getting the word "by ear". It may sometimes lead us to think that the subtitles are wrong, or the word was missheard or misspeled.

>>10394452
I will, but only after you have done all your reps, so start working on those accumulated reviews. Oh and no whining or bargaining, those are my unnegotiable terms.
Where do you live?

question do some LN's have ebook (digital) versions?

>>10394496
Yes.
http://www.aozora.gr.jp/

>>10394321
Started with 20/day.
A few weeks later I bumped up to 25/day
Then 25-35/day.
Now I'm actually considering going solid 40/day.

(I'm at #1530 )

I used anki to learn touhou vocab. I think I want to share this deck with my jp bros.

Is cramming my forgotten words bad?

>>10394572
Well if you end up learning them eventually then no. Just remember that the ultimate goal is learning Japanese, not passing some silly reviews. Do whatever you feel is best for your retention

The anki 2.0 update is killing me and I don't know what to do

I have learned 1000+ cards on the "old anki" and I just clicked dont upgrade every time it prompted me to, for some reason I don't think my account is properly sync'd to ankiweb because my progress doesnt show up when I go to the website

I tried to upgrade to 2.0 just now and it has no mention of my progress or the cards due today, and I really don't want to restart. Ive tried exporting the deck and then importing it again on 2.0 but it did no good, does anyone have any solution please, on feb 4th they said they are no longer supporting <2.0

>>10395451
Shiieet. Stories like these make me not want to upgrade to 2.0. If my 5 year old decks reset themselves I would literary kill myself.

>>10395455
If you're that worried about it then export your shit before you install 2, then if it fucks up you can uninstall 2, reinstall 1, and the import your shit back in.

Whenever I look into these threads it seems more like you guys are trying to set some sort of highscore in your ankis instead of learning the language. There's probably something really wrong about that.
So what if you can't use your "deck" anymore? There's people learning without it at all

>>10395478
1) A learned them at different times so different ones require a different length between study times because i'm more familiar with the old ones
2) It can take quite a while to go through ~1500 cards just to catch up to where I previously was and thats not really something I want to do

The real problem is I can't even get my deck to sync to ankiweb

>>10394551
Thank you. What is the name of the deck?

>>10395496
I'm confused. I thought he was talking about the people who post showing that they've done 938300 reps that day or something.

>>10395570
>So what if you can't use your "deck" anymore? There's people learning without it at all

This made it sound like he meant to direct that comment at
>>10395451

Is anki mostly good for begginers? Do any of you here consider yourselves very fluent with japanese and still use it? What are some good advanced decks?

Not that I'm not good myself, just want some tips and to download a few decks for the future

>>10396742
Why would you not use it as advanced student? The principle of learning doesn't suddenly change just because you know a few more words.

So for those on core 2000

How many did you do a day?

Today I got my first mature cards. How amusing. I don't even know how mature ~ young cards work anyway.

>>10395455
>>10395477
Anki 2 saves its decks in another place and doesn't touch the original files, so even if the update screws up you won't lose anything

also, use the "fix database" thing in anki 1 before you upgrade and everything should work

>>10397817
50 but I plan to move up to 75 once I hit 1000 and then 100 later on.

Anyone else using Tae Kim Clozed Delete deck? I've found it really helpful. Grammar is such an abstract thing to review so having an Anki deck for it is nice.

>>10399582
Really? I've been reading through the guide but I've never felt the necessity for using a deck.

>>10399590
I feel like I'd just forget the shit if I wasn't able to review, and reviewing without a deck would be a pain.

so, I just finished learning hiragana and katagana, I'm at a loss on what to do next, help me /jp/

>>10399754
Grammar.

>>10399754
Go through RTK or KD. Knowing kanji will make grammar and vocabulary much easier for you, as you'll otherwise have to learn it all at the same time.

>>10399810
Actually, make that advice conditional. Try going through Tae Kim, and if the vocabulary and kanji is giving you trouble, then go through RTK or Heisig and it will deal with that problem. I'm just saying this on the off chance that you're one of those few people that will have little difficulty with kanji.

>>10399821
RTK or KD*

>>10397855
cards with an interval >21 days are mature, nothing special about them

I'm learning 100 kanji a day without mnemonics. Aren't the radicals themselves supposed to act as mnemonics to some degree?

>>10395451
Check what version your old anki was. anki2 can only import v1.2 or something.

>>10395451
If you would have updated when it prompted you every time this wouldn't be a problem. Kill yourself.

>>10395451
Ankiweb1 and Ankiweb2 aren't synced. You go to 1 by using the HTTP address, and to 2 using the HTTPS address. It's kind of confusing.

>>10400328

>100 kanji a day
>learning

yeah

yeah

>>10400375
>>10400392
I figured out I had to check a certain box when exporting my deck to keep my progress

The new study method is a bit weird and it didn't save my exact progress but at least it saved the cards I learned so I don't have to go through them any more htan I need to

>>10400453
Are you vexed by your inability to learn copious amounts of moonrunes?

>>10400453
I did 100 a day for the last several hundred of Heisig, so it's not like it's impossible or something. The question is whether he's actually learning to write them.

>>10400458

no nigger

I don't even care

if you had said like 20 I'd be doubting, if 10 I'd be jealous, with fucking 100 I'm aware that's impossible

after you learn all the jouyou in 3 weeks do grammar for a week and you'll be fluent, move to nippon then

>>10400459

the keyword here is retention

>>10400465
>the keyword here is retention

Well, it's certainly possible. Mnemonics kept everything in order for me and I think my brain had gotten used to it after 1500 or so, so going up to 100 wasn't a problem. I'm not him, though.

>>10400465
Except you don't 'learn' shit in a single day, regardless of what pace you move at. Adding 100~ kanji a day is entirely feasible, because you will gain a mastery over time via reviews. L2SRS

>>10400465
>20 I'd be doubting
Looks like you're retarded.

>>10400465
I do at least two hours every day just on my kanji deck. At an average of 15 cards per second it's entirely feasible.

>>10400459
There's no point in learning to write until you're almost perfect at reading.

>>10400486
Looks like you're autistic.

>>10400485
>At an average of 15 cards per second it's entirely feasible.
Yes that sounds feasible.

>>10395478
If I lost my decks, I'd be pissed for a while, but you're right that they're not absolutely necessary for learning.

However, even though my Japanese is at the point where I can read and understand most things without having to look up much in a dictionary, I still like to do my Anki reviews. The reason being that there are plenty of words that I may have only run into once or twice when reading/listening to Japanese, and if I review them in Anki, I'm more likely to remember them than hoping that I'll somehow read something new that has that word in it.

Basically, Anki isn't necessary for stuff that you'll get lots of exposure to just by reading/listening to Japanese on a daily basis, but it's great for rare words/phrases/kanji that you don't necessarily come across often.

>>10400496
>20 I'd be doubting
Why? That's not a ridiculously huge amount, to be honest. I did 30 for a while and went down to 20, but I could have done 30 if I didn't have other responsibilities.

>>10400491
That doesn't make any sense. Why would you put off writing, which can be simply learned while you're going through them the first time, to go through all the kanji again at a later point? You people say the stupidest shit, I swear.

What is the best deck to use for kanjidamage?

>>10400505
He might be thinking that it means getting the meaning, pronunciations, and writing it in one day from scratch, and then retaining that for forever.

>>10400515
Also, do you people not think that being able to write it will not help your reading? If you can produce it, you read it. You'll have a better command of it as a whole.

>>10400531
not think that being able to write it will help your reading*

>>10400525
But we're talking about anki and the entire point of SRS is that you won't get it in one day, and maybe not even in 10.

>>10394321

I'm presently in college and as a result am rather strapped for time.

10/day is the way I've been going. I started with 20/day but it proved rather overwhelming to me.

>>>/a/78873956

The DJT threads have good resources in the OP, and /a/nons can be surprisingly helpful for specific questions as long as you are mature.

So have any of you accidentally held down the enter key in Anki?

this is why you never miss a day; your workload goes from being 15-25 minutes to being almost an hour

>>10400596
>15-25 minutes
>almost an hour
Normal session for me: 1-2 hours
Missed a day: 3 hours
Missed multiple days: Pray to god they are not heavy review days or I will be hurting

At least the new anki is much more forgiving and I kept the default setting on mine of 100 review cards and 40 new cards a day

>>10400600

it all depends on how many decks you're doing and how many new cards a day. but yeah, your workload multiplies fucking fast

>>10400584
You can just ctrl+z

>>10400596
Wow a whole hour! What are you gonna do?! You might as well just give up!

>>10400629
You're right, I'm just going to kill myself.

>>10400644
Bye!

>>10400646
Don't worry I'll be right back. ;_;

Not only am I not learning, I'm forgetting things I used to know!

>>10400680
That's the way!

When I stopped doing my reps, I knew about 1000 kanji. A few months have passed now, and I'm too scared to start anew because I will have forgotten so many by now.

So many /a/-fags in here.

why?

>>10401300
This isn't good, better start downloading potentially useful decks.
Aside from an rtk deck, a tk grammar deck, core2k/6k and coreplus, what else is good?

>>10401309
Yojijukugo, idioms, and that deck with useful phrases. Not that there's any reason to panic download though. It's probably just moving on to anki 2.

>So how are those reps coming along?
Good. I've missed a day or two a week ago or so, due to other studies. Doing 50 cards a day, would like to increase to 100, but school prevents me from doing so. If I have alot of freetime during the weekends, I usually do more than 50.
>What decks are you currently using?
Modified CorePLUS deck.
>How harshly do you grade your reviews?
Always "Good" for recognized cards and "Hard" for cards I fail.
>Which is better, Anki 1.0 or 2.0?
Anki 2.0

Should I go with CorePLUS, Core 2000, or with Core 2000 Step 1 Listening + images?

>>10401429

Don't think. Feel.

>>10401429
Depends on what you want to learn. CorePLUS tend to have alot of business terms and whatnot at the start of the deck. But after around 2000 words or so in it becomes less and less. This is probably because how JLPT rank their words, since they tend to include words that would help people that will travel and live in Japan.

But anyways, you still need to have around 10000 words+ or so for reading stuff outside moege. So in the long run corePLUS is the way to go. You need to modify the card layout if you're going with it because the deck is worthless otherwise.

How can I change the language of anki2 to japanese?

what do you guys think of genki? should I give that or a shot or stick with Tae Kim?

>>10402108
Most of the people that I know say that Tae Kim is much better than Genki, and honestly, if you want exercizes you just need to download the Clozed delete TK deck. I recommend you to go with it.

>No ETA, progress bar or timer
Why is anki 2 so shitty?

Fuck anki2
And fuck anki devs for shutting down the old web just because nobody was upgrading
FUCK EVERYTHING I NEED A NON JEWISH FLASH CARD PROGRAM NOW

>>10403751
>This was not done to force users to upgrade, but simply because both the desktop and web versions are provided for free, and I do not have the time or resources to support two major versions at once.

>>10403751
>>10403758
Yeah, this just what happens. Once software upgrades like this, the old version is discontinued after a while. It's too much work for someone to keep up both.

>>10403758
Tell me more lies you filthy fucking jew.

>>10403780
But why they did it?
It was more like a downgrade, anki2 is awful.

>>10403790
It would be nice if someone made a plugin to give anki 2 all the good features of anki 1.

any sort of change is bad!!! why cant everything be the same forever!!! thumbs up if you hate the youtube redesign too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>>10403742
>timer
Timer is still there you have to turn it on.

>>10403964
>>>/a/
>>>/b/
>>>/v/

>>10404087
Don't get so heated dude

>>10404087
sorry it just really grinds me gears that youtube had to do a redesign!!! and now anki!!! i always already used to one way, why did they have to change it!!!!

>>10403964
I don't like changes when my favorites features are removed.

>>10404116
The best youtube design was in 2006. Every other one after that was shit.

Where do you guys download the cards for anki?

>>10406225
apkg files to be specific (mobile version)

>>10406225
>>10406271
You should be able to click "get shared" in Anki and it will open the website, but here is the link

https://ankiweb.net/shared/decks/

For Anki 1 use the non-https version

So I have only one question about Anki2.
Does rikaisama direct import still work with it? Because that shit is too goddamn useful to abandon.

>>10406376
> Note: Presently, this feature only works with Anki 1.2.x.

>>10406225
I've been doing well with creating my own cards.
Ten new kanji per day, ten cards per day. Of course making the card helps my memory a bit too. I'm at 505.

Can we share reading material for practice
Here's Norwegian Woodhttp://www.mediafire.com/?jrncwx4x8eexg

So is there a general guide for people who want to start using Anki? I'm sure there's plenty of questions noobs always ask and that everyone is tired of repeating over and over again.

>>10406325
Thanks!

>>10406225
Do you just look up words and add them or something?

>>10409864
do your reps. that is all.

>>10409941
I don't know how to do my reps if I don't know where to start, really. All the decks and stuff have me lost.

>>10409958
Lurk and you'll find your answers.

>>10408996
Get on my level.

Any recommendations from https://ankiweb.net/shared/decks/japane<wbr>
for a beginner?

>>10410150
You think that's shit?

Why is it such a pin in the ass to color text in anki 2?
Fuck this shit.

>>10411227
get on MY level

>>10412481
is your deck/collection some sort of ancient dinosaur?

>>10411227
I studied 82 cards in that same amount of time today ;_;

is there anyway to get anki to cross reference with another deck to see what cards you're missing?

I have a 1945 deck that's apparently missing 5 cards, I kind of want to import that 5 I'm missing and the new one's if possible and I'm wondering if there is a painless way to do that

I go 20 kanji per day.
U MAD?
By this rate I will learn all kanji next month.

>>10412701
and then you'll realize "learning" kanji like you're doing means shit and you'll be on a lower level than someone who studied vocabulary instead

>>10412701
I learned 1469 kanji in a year

>>10412710
Not him, but this isn't a contest. I study 10 kanji per day while going through sentences that contain said kanji, and honestly it's working pretty well for me. I also study something in grammar everyday. As long as the end result is that you learn japanese, it's alright.

>>10412718
>this isn't a contest
Yeah but the way he worded his post made it sound like he thought he was amazing from cramming kanji as if he got over the hardest part

>>10412651
Not sure about cross referencing, but you could go through them manually.
Not one by one, but say: open 2 instances of anki, open both decks' deck browsers, sort by the same shared criteria - preferably something english so it'd be easier to locate, select the first halves of both decks, stopping at the same card. If the number of selected items - which is displayed in the titlebar - is the same, it means your five missing cards are in the second half of the "complete" deck.
Select the remaining halves... and so on.

I just tinkered a bit, you could also:
Export all your cards from your "incomplete" deck
Export all cards from the "complete" deck
Make a temporary, new deck
Import the "incomplete" set into it, tag/mark the cards
Import "complete" set; duplicates, assuming they are indentical, should not be added
Find untagged cards

>>10412711
I learn them in a month.
UMIRIN

>>10412740

I learned them in one week.

Do you even kanji?

>>10412740
I learned them better than you did.

>>10412748
No you didn't, mirin :)

>>10412735
thanks for this, I'll give it a try later

>>10412710
I wish you people would stop complaining about this. It's nice that you were able to go straight into vocabulary, but kanji are a large barrier to many people that prevents them from doing so. Take your whining back to the thread on /a/. Also any time differnce which would place someone on a "lower level," whatever the fuck you mean by that, would be made up for by the fact that words will be easier and quicker to learn because they already know the kanji being used. You're fucking stupid.

バンプ

I couldn't even get through Hiragana and Katakana. I guess I didn't want it bad enough.

>>10414188
Maybe you were approaching it wrong.

>>10414198
How am I supposed to approach it?

>>10414203
If you didn't before, you could always try Heisig's Remembering the Kana and see if that method works for you. I'm sure you can find it online.

>>10414208
Thanks, i'll give it another go.

>>10414214
Yeah, that's the method I used and it worked very well. He tells you the method to do, so just do what he says. Maybe write them more than he says, though, if you feel it will help you.

I have a question, do i have to complete studying tae kim's grammar before getting to anki?

>>10417527
Accompany the reading of Tae Kim's guide with the flashcard lessons provided in the Clozed Delete's Tae Kim anki deck.

I just upgraded to AnkiDroid 2 and re-imported my Kanji Damage deck from AnkiWeb. Now all of a sudden I have 830 reviews due when I had like 100 before. What the fuck just happened?
Also, what's the difference between the decks "Kanji Damage", "Kanjidamage" and "KanjiDamage Plus+"? Which one do you use?

>>10417536
I don't think that deck is that much necessary. Although it might be because I get annoyed by how I always get the sentences wrong because I didn't put a - in the middle of the two sentences.

>>10417571
It is. You will never grasp or maintain all of those grammar rules through just reading the guide once or twice. You either need to put down notes for reviewing later on whenever you encounter something, or go through the deck.

>get annoyed by how I always get the sentences wrong because I didn't put a - in the middle of the two sentences.

Just mark it as correct either way.

>>10412710

This is what concerns me. I'm doing RtK at a 20 kanji a day pace. I'm more than halfway through now and hoping it really does help, instead of it being a time waster.

By the way, I've had a lot of trouble with remembering kanji as of late. My correct percentage has gone from 90% down to 70%. I've found that once a kanji goes more than a week before popping up again, I'll forget both the story (until I see the kanji, then it's like "oh yeah!") and the kanji itself.

How do I correct this? My daily reviews always wind up being around 140 or so (including my new kanji) cause of this problem and I'm at 1100-ish kanji.

>>10417623
You shouldn't be concerned. As long as you finish off kanji without doing readings and whatnot you're fine. Anything over 3 months on strictly doing pure kanji grinds is a waste of time though. So try to finish it off as fast as possible.

Anyone here heard of RtK Lite? I was wondering if I should just do that instead of RtK to start off with. Thoughts?

>>10417671
But I'm learning the onyomi + meaning of 10 kanji everyday. To know that I'll know more than 3000 kanji in the end of this year is what makes me keep going. And honestly, the more I study, I notice that I'm being able to tell them apart more easily. What's so bad about this method?

>>10418056
Don't bother if you expect to read non-adapted texts. I've found that even 2k is not sufficient even for everyday language. Though you can try learning it if you think this will give you some motivation in your studies.

>>10418093
Besides, you won't grow your dictionary as fast as your kanji knowledge to make full use of it, so probably it does make sense. I didn't use Light, but I did learn kanji ahead of the book if I repeatedly encountered them in the words I learned.

>>10418084
The fact that you could learn 20000 words in that kind of timeframe instead of wasting time on individual kanji which doesn't enable you to read shit.

>>10418499
But I won't learn the kanji, just the words. And that's not enough.

>>10418505
What?

>>10418513
Well, I wanna learn the kanji, and then go into vocabulary. Besides, you may not know, but I can guess many jukugo just by looking at the kanji they are composed of.

>>10418518
Of course you should learn the kanji, but it's still a waste to learn onyomi.

>guess many jukugo just by looking at the kanji they are composed of.
Me too, after going through 5000 words+ it's not that hard. The reason why you skip onyomi is because you learn the onyomi themselves by grinding words.

>>10418529
So you just suggest learning the meaning of the kanji, instead of going through on + kun?

>>10418533
Yes. That's the most effective way. I used to do it the same way as you, and I wasted around 5 months because of that.

In those 5 months I could've learned like 7000 words.

>>10418542

Yet if you had put the minimal effort into learning the on readings with the kanji you would already be able to guess the pronunciation for the vast majority of jukugo. I wouldn't say your method is effective.

>>10418602
It doesn't matter much if you can guess it because you have to look it up anyways the first time you see it because it might be an exception. And if you know a word with a kanji in it, you get an intuitive sense of what the reading is even without specifically looking it up.

But honestly, whatever makes you feel like you're making progress is the best. All that really matters is that you start trying to read VNs or text format LNs as soon as possible, preferably within a year.

>>10418602
Do you really think it's knowing onyomi that makes grinding words easy or knowing the pronounciation?

I barely ever have problems with memorizing the readings of kanji, the problem being is knowing what the HELL it means.

Fine. If you want to go with your method and waste time the same way as I did, go ahead. You'll realize your mistake as soon as you start on vocab.

>>10418626
>memorizing the readings of kanji
Meant, knowing the readings.

>>10418626
You learn what the kanji means from vocab too.

>>10418626

So you never had a problem? That's good. But it doesn't change the fact that you can pick up vocab quicker by already knowing the on readings.

>>10418643
>But it doesn't change the fact that you can pick up vocab quicker by already knowing the on readings.

But not as fast as if you know 2000 jukugo.

>>10418648

Not even sure what you're implying.

>>10418655
That if you learn 高校 = こうこう and 学生 = がくせい then you can guess things like 学校　高校生 about as well as someone who just learned the on readings of 学、高,生,校. And you know 学校 and 学生 as a bonus.

>>10418667

I'm saying if you're going to learn the kanji meaning separately (RTK), than it doesn't make any sense to not learn the on readings with them.

>>10418675
It's like you just ignored his explanation of why it's sensible to skip readings.

>>10418643
>you can pick up vocab quicker by already knowing the on readings.

You don't. Compare the knowledge of 16000 words in a year to your mere 800~ words from kunyomi along with 2500~ onyomi readings.

The guy with 14000 words has not only learned most onyomi readings just by grinding words, he has also learned hundreds of ways on kunyomi combinations.

He can easily figure out the meaning of compounds like 組み合わせる as long as he knows what 組み and 合わせる means.

80% of the time when grinding vocab it's not really pronounciation you're struggling with, it's what it means. While your onyomi knowledge might come in handy in the beginning, in the long run it's the other guy that wins in how much he actually knows compared to what you know in the given timeframe.

>>10418688
>80% of the time when grinding vocab it's not really pronounciation you're struggling with, it's what it means.
I'm going to completely disagree. For me, 80% of the time its the presence/lack of rendaku or an irregular reading that I'm struggling with. But there isn't really a way to make that easier anyway.

>>10418688

I never said just cramming vocab wasn't an option. A lot of people can skip RTK. But not me.

"Heisig is fucking dumb haha fucking stupid RTK users not learning on-yomi LOL"

"No, here is why Heisig is effective and it's okay not to learn readings simulateously:..."

"Haha fucking stupid Heisig users. YO MAMA JOKES Haha. KD da best :D"

-Every discussion about Heisig on 4chan ever.

>>10418699

KD is Heisig; it's the same method. Just supplemented with stories and extra info.

>>10418718
and YO MAMA JOKES

>>10418718
>>10418721
ICHI? MORE LIKE EAZY-E LOL

I didn't do my reps for a week afraid that I have forgotten them for being lazy.Turns out that was not the case. I must not give in to failure!!!

>>10419156
I have never missed a day on my reps, ever. You should be ashamed.

New to these threads on /jp/. What does this place think of AJATT?

Any decks you guys recommend for a complete beginner? (well I had Katakana down long ago but I forgot). Android version by the way.

>>10419932
I have to disagree with the idea that you should try and learn Japanese from any source that you can. Things like anime are not good sources for learning Japanese and can cause you to develop bad or incorrect habits or understanding.

>>10419958
I use anime to double-check grammar only. Is that bad?

>>10419959
That would probably be okay. The two main issues with anime are 1. people don't actually talk like that; if you learn how to speak from anime then you will sound like a fool, and 2. characters sometimes have speech idiosyncrasies or speak in strange ways; so if you learn to speak in that way (not knowing that it's wrong) you will develop very bad habits. Just checking grammar would probably be fine, just be careful.

>>10419943
If you are just starting out you will need to learn the kana (hiragana and katakana). There are two methods I would suggest, and neither necessitate an Anki deck.

1. Brute force. Use http://www.realkana.com/ and grind them until they stick.
2. If brute force is not your thing, which is fine, then use Heisig's book Remembering the Kana. You can find it for download. Review with the website I posted if you need to.

There are Anki decks for kana available, but I don't really know how they are. I'm sure most are fine.

Also I would suggest reading the relevant pages here: http://www.guidetojapanese.org/lea/grammar/writing

>>10419966
Also please learn to write them. It will help them stick into your memory and shouldn't be very difficult.

>>10419958

Anime is a perfectly fine source. 95% of the dialogue in any anime is normal Japanese, just like the dialogue in American cartoons. Just don't imitate their tone of voice or anything cause those are often exaggerated in many anime, especially shonen ones.

>learning Japanese to be able to speak it

>>10419981
And for that 5%, when you're still learning, you may not understand that it's wrong. That is the problem. A newer learner is not in the position to distinguish between what is correct and what is not in situations like that.

>>10419970

I look up karaoke lyric videos on Youtube of my favorite Japanese songs and sing along to them for kanji reading practice. They almost always have furigana for the kanji. Think this is a good way to practice kanji?

Example of what I'm talking about: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHc5BDzbo

>>10419985
That seems like a good idea. Just don't get too hung up on furigana, you know? Make sure that when you review words you have to supply the reading yourself.

>>10419932

Never heard of it.

Reading through it now, seems like an okay thing.

>>10419987

I hate furigana with a passion. I can never block it out when it's there, so my eyes just wind up going up the entire time even when it's simple kanji I know how to read in my sleep like 大学 or something.

>>10420011
Ah yeah, that happens to me too. But I've heard the Japanese also have the habit to look at furigana, that's why they sometimes do jokes writing different stuff as furigana so you accidentally read it like that.

>skip deck for 3 days
>finally catch up
>it takes so long I end up skipping a different deck
Kill me

>>10420079
>posting in this thread
>not doing your reps
Your own fault.

How do you make the transition from reading to listening?

>>10420111
By listening.

>>10420079

Please go back to /a/ with your meme arrows.

I think it is about time I just give up and kill myself already.

>>10421114
lel

>>10421149
>1006 of 1006
You're either cheating, reviewing outside of the anki algorithm or learning stuff you already know/stuff that's too easy for you
either way, you're probably wasting time

>>10421260
>reviewing outside of the anki algorithm

Yeah, you're supposed to do that. It's called reading. Immersion, if you will.

>>10421260
I used to cram Core2k vocab all the time early in on the vocab grinds. I stopped doing that later on though. That's why they are so high. Not really wasting time because I manage to do 50-100 words a day either way.

>>10421149

How are you guys getting that graph?

I'm using Anki 2 and this is the only graph I can find, and it's grossly inaccurate.

>>10421970
scroll down

Show me your graphs /jp/

>>10421982
I'm using Anki wrong.

>>10421982
Y-your graphs look so beautiful... Mine is so shitty ;~;

>>10421997
I guess it must be Hard for you.

>>10421997
Just wondering, what is your average daily reviews, and how many cards do you add per day? I am >>10421935 and I get about 200-300 reviews per day and add about 50 cards.

Why do anki2 graphs group by weeks instead of days?

>>10422035
Probably 50-200 reviews per day. If I skip reps for a day or two I'll end up with 400 reviews.
I have it adding 20 cards per deck per day, and I think one of my decks is going to be adding cards for a few weeks like that.

>>10422065
Does your hard interval only go up by a single day every time you hit it? How many total cards do you have in your deck?

>>10421970
It's not inaccurate. It's just telling you how many reviews, at the moment, you have coming up for the particular deck you have selected. As you review the numbers will change.

>>10422147
No, each button increases by a certain percentage.

I think Hard is 1.5x, Easy is 4x, Very Easy is 8x.

>>10422147
1200 in one deck and 800 in another. I have another hundred or so to add to the 1200 card deck.

>>10420079

I ended up breaking down and buying a Kanji dictionary because the review number would get ridiculous. Now I just try to do a page in that whenever I can.

>>10423280
You're doing something wrong if you have that many due very day. You're either skipping days or you're marking everything so that you'll have to review it every day.

>>10423301

I was skipping days. I had no problem keeping up when I was NEET, but now I've got a job and go to school full time.

>>10423355
My most productive time with the deck is when I commute on the public transport (especially subway) or when I'm on feet. I guess it forces you to do repetitions since there is nothing else you can do. Miss some desktop Anki plugins, though.

For a guy JUST STARTING OUT with this program and with japanese, what are the best decks to download? Which ones did you use when you were starting out? Which you didn't, but you repent on not having done so?

>>10424211
Use your brain, moron. You won't get anywhere by requesting to be spoon-fed at every turn.

>>10417565
I use Kanjidamage.

>>10424211
KANJIDAMAGE

Guys what the fuck.

All your advice is horrible.

I tried to learn using Anki but the way it displays the cards is bullshit and predictable. The program as a whole is clunky, and all the decks suck.

I just installed Rikaichan and made a quick program to drill random vocab using JDICT files, ordered by segments related to frequency of use, and I spend a bit each day browsing 2chan reading shit, using Rikaichan when needed. Skimmed over Tae Kim's grammar guide to get a basic grasp of the grammar and structure of the language.

Works a lot better. I've made more progress in a week like this than I did in close to a month using Anki.

>>10424295
did you you use random order on anki?

>>10424295
>I tried to learn using Anki but the way it displays the cards is bullshit and predictable.
This was one of the main bugs in the old version of Anki.
Fortunately in Anki 2 they have corrected this, and some cards are now displayed upside down to keep you on your toes.

>>10424301

Yes. Either way, the way it spaces them out, and the way I tend to go through the cards, made it predictable.

I don't want delays worth of days when I mastered something. If I mastered something, then I can just glance at it and know what it is immediately, and it takes less than a fraction of a second to get past it. And it helps drive it into long term memory. I go slow at first, to build mnemonics, then go through entire decks in the space of a few hours after that to register them for good. Doing that with Anki is impossible, it either beings looping the cards forever, or ends up now showing you them at all when it thinks you've "mastered" them. If I tell it to show me all cards at once, it begins to loop endlessly on the first few sets due to the weird timing gaps. If I tell it to segment them, then I'm not really learning shit, because I can go through 100 cards and memorize them "completely" for that stretch of time without really having committed them to long term memory. To do that I need to be parsing many more cards so that I can't just keep it all in short term memory.

Anki just doesn't work for me.

>>10424295

I don't understand what you mean. You can edit the decks you know

I just passed kanji 1150 in RtK and am finding it more and more difficult each day to go on. I'm just kanji grinding at this stage, nothing else, as I've been told to do. Now I'm getting impatient just waiting for the end to come.

>>10427912
How many are you doing each day? You can probably increase the amount as your brain has had some time to get used to learning them.

>>10427930

I've been doing 20-25 a day. I very briefly tried going up to 40-60 a day back around the 700s, but that wound up backfiring on me within 3-4 days.

>>10427945
>20-25

I can see why you're impatient. Try going up again.

>>10427912
then stop listening to people and learn a different way. Just keep doing reps of shit you've already seen to keep it from going to waste. I don't know why you fools insist on doing methods that you don't feel are effective.

>>10427954
Don't you know? There is only 1 way to learn Japanese. It's the one that the guy who sounds the most confident uses. You're an idiot if you don't follow people who act like they know what they're talking about.

>>10427971
Thank you for your constructive irony.

>>10428900
No problem!

>>10394206
...... Why would you not write them down to begin with? Do you expect to become proficient in writing just by seeing them?

>>10394234
I hope you realize that mnemonic devices utilize visual memory. The strongest stories are the most memorable visually-- this is why the method of loci has been the most efficient memory device since antiquity.
Beyond that, the Japanese cram school method relies on rote memorization (strengthens muscle memory). You will not be able to write a kanji if you ONLY rely on mnemonic devices. You should at least write it three times to get your hand used to kanji strokes and to improve your penmanship. There's no point learning kanji if your characters look like they were drawn by a schizophrenic child with downs.
Another piece of advice-- don't waste your time learning all of the kanji before you begin anything else. I know it is extremely popular now because of AJATT and Heisig, but it truly is a waste of time. There is no wrong way to learn a language, but there are efficient and inefficient ways. Obviously if you feel comfortable doing it that way, then by all means-- but I seriously suggest that you go through Tae Kim's grammar first. If you at least understand all of the mechanics of a sentence, not knowing the vocab can be remedied in the 20 seconds it takes to look up a word/kanji. It is very difficult to intuit the purposes of grammar unless you have been familiarized. While doing TK you should also learn all of the compounds and vocab suggested/whatever else you come across in personal study.

>>10394299
If you're not having trouble doing it that way then that's great, but you're probably better off studying the reading of kanji compounds in context. Instead of cramming all of the different on-readings, you might as well just learn compounds. It will pay off much more, and it will make more sense.

>>10399810
Knowing kanji does absolutely nothing for grammar, so I wouldn't listen to anything this kid has to say. Apparently if you don't learn kanji first you have to learn everything at the same time?

Wrong. Learn grammar as you learn compounds. It makes more sense to learn kanji readings in context than to simply learn the kanji on their own. It's more work this way, but it will pay off exponentially. If you can grasp the mechanics of grammar you can begin reading sentences immediately-- just look up the shit you don't know.

>>10430173
>There's no point learning kanji if your characters look like they were drawn by a schizophrenic child with downs.
Yep, no point at all. Although it does allow you to read, and to write using a computer, which is obviously the vast majority of writing for most people. But aside from that, completely useless.

How does everyone have their Anki setup for grinding vocab?

I got mine setup like this.

>>10430610

>>10430610
i find it so hard to learn with flashcards.

usually if I see the kanji used in a sentence I remember it better but if it's completely removed like that then it's no good.

Only for cards in the core 6k, the cards that I personally add to the deck have sentences on the back only.

>>10430621
the sentence is right under the compound for that guy though

>>10430621
I'd feel like I was cheating if I had a sentence on the front. I might get the sentence in my head and just remember the word from that, rather than remembering the word as it is.

>>10430675
You could always add more sentences. Learning words by their context is an effective and natural way of learning.

>>10430633
is the 6k set just harder without an example or is it because your 6k set is fairly new still age wise?

>>10430679
Too much work. Studying takes long enough already, much less trying to go back and add more sentences to cards.

>How harshly do you grade your reviews
i wish more people had answered this with more detail. i like having an idea of how people are doing it and how successful they are so far with their studies.

>>10430723
I mark everything the same whether I get it right or not.

>>10430723
I use good (third button) for damn near all my reviews. If it's new or if I had to really think about it (5~10 seconds or more) then I use hard (second button). I use very easy (fourth button) for stuff that was mature, I forgot for some stupid reason, and now I have it locked in again for a while. I use again if I got it wrong. I try to be strict about this but sometimes it's an easy word and I knew it anyway (I go E>J always so sometimes it's just not the first Japanese word I thought of)

>>10430723
>New card or added yesterday
Always "hard"
>I miss it and the next time I'd see it with "hard" is a month later
"Again"
>I miss it and the next time I'd see it is relatively soon (within a week)
"hard"
>It's easy as fuck and I'm never forgetting it
"normal" or "easy"

>>10430731
Hard? Are you the hard otaku that posted his hard graph earlier in this thread?

>>10430686
It's because that's the way I set it up when I first started. I don't even really use the sentences, that would be cheating.

I'm currently doing RtK and having a problem - the stories and kanji aren't sticking to long-term memory. Once a kanji hits the 2 week plus mark in Anki, that's when I'm likely to forget it. Once I see the kanji again after clicking fail, I'll be like "oh yeah!" half the time, but the point is I'm still forgetting them. There's also some kanji I do remember, but with slight hesitation so I know I'll probably forget it when it pops up again in the reviews two weeks from now.

How do I fix this? 2/3 of my total kanji reviews (1170+) are due within a two week time frame, that seems like a lot.

>>10430836
If you're getting that many due within two weeks, then you're doing an awful lot per day. If you're forgetting stuff, then I guess it's too much. Alternatively, you might need more memorable stories.

>>10430790
It's mainly because of OCD or something. It would bother me a lot if I marked them in a disorderly way. I have three decks, Tae Kim, RTK, and corePLUS, and I mark RTK and Tae Kim as good because I can't bear to review them any more often. corePLUS is all hard because I want to make sure it sticks and it doesn't take anywhere near as long to review.

>>10430840

I'm only doing 20 new kanji per day at this point and have been sticking with that amount for a while. I did 25 per day when I started, then I tried 40-60 a day for like four days back in December, then dialed it down to 20 cause the negative results showed after only a few days.

It is a pain making up mnemonics for some of these kun readings while doing my vocab reps. I can remember some like 奉る(たてまつる) but I gotta bust out the stories for 勝る.

Worthless brain.

>>10430864

Assuming you already know grammar, maybe try exposing yourself to the kanji more outside of the kanji grinding reviews? Like, read some short stories or browse 2chan or something where you'll see lots of kanji. With rikaichan by your side, you have no need to fear.

>>10430854
How many cards do you have the core deck though. I did that, but by the time you hit 1000+ the reviews start to become overwhelming.

>>10430880
I wouldn't bother with readings (I assume you're doing RTK vol 2?), because you'll learn those by actually reading. I've read quite a bit and I've seen 勝る countless times and never once seen 奉る. You should focus on what's actually relevant rather than memorizing anything and everything.

>>10431051
This game actually uses it. Weird coincedence that I was playing it earlier.

>>10431051
>I wouldn't bother with readings (I assume you're doing RTK vol 2?)
I'm grinding vocab actually and its part of JLPT1. Maybe I'll suspending it though since its not tagged as edict or a common word.

What is the difference between 言うんだ and 言ってんだ?

>>10431186
The same as the difference between 言う and 言ってる. Without any context this type of question is meaningless.

>>10431191
So 言ってんだ implies progressive tense?

>>10431198
ている isn't strictly progressive, but in any case, they're not special forms, it IS that tense. 言ってんだ is 言っている+んだ.

>>10430836

Did you make a thread on kanji.koohii?

>>10431204

Yeah, that's me. I figured asking both here and there (both places have most of their users following the same method) would be a good idea to get a greater variety of answers.

The original thread is a little over a week old now. The problem seemingly went away for a few days, but has come back again over the past couple days with a vengeance and the sheer number of reviews is starting to cause some "anki fatigue" if you will.

>>10431276
>"anki fatigue"
If you are tired, why don't you stop for a while and do something else? If you don't stop repetitions, you won't forget anything and give your brain some time to process the information you've crammed into it. Learn kana or start with grammar and vocabulary for a change. Nothing motivated me more than discovering that I know how to write some complex words in kanji. Also, 1100 kanji / 2 weeks ~= 80 is really not much, I repeated roughly 50-100 kanji per day even though I was going super slow with Heisig (I had serious trouble inventing and memorizing stories, especially the ones he gave).

>>10431323

Problem is it never is 80 a day. Instead, it winds up being much higher than 80. I usually never go below 120 a day. Like today I have 140 reviews plus whatever new cards I might learn, if I decide to learn new ones today (which I might not).

>>10432707
Are you marking a lot of them as hard? I have all 2200 cards for my Heisig deck mature and I get 25-50 reviews each day, and sometimes none. There are a few days I get 200+ because I switched to Anki after using koohii and threw around 600 cards in in a few days, but that's pretty rare, of course.

>>10432961

No, I usually just click good, not easy or hard unless I have trouble thinking of the kanji, then of course it's hard. Admittedly, there's some kanji that I probably should have marked as easy right from the start, like the kanji for "what", and I've been correcting this lately. I will say that if I forget a kanji, then suddenly remember it and can write it with ease after it's been shown to me, I refrain from clicking Easy or Very Easy just in case as I had already forgotten it once.

It's just forgetfulness that's resulting in the high review counts. Once a card reaches to past three weeks, there's like a 50% chance I'll forget it by the time it shows up again after having been forever since I last saw it. I'd actually probably be fine going from kanji to keyword (even if I've forgotten the story, I tend to automatically remember it upon seeing the kanji), but that is of course not the recommended path.

>>10432707
(I am the same person) I also experienced that second wave of long-term failures and started to keep that in mind to prevent myself from rushing seemingly simple material. I think this is normal to forget many cards in the first iteration even if you get them right the first few times during the short memory stage. I wound up asking myself a question for every kanji I added: "Will I remember this story after a week? a month? a year?" and if I was not sure, I tried to expand or rework the story. I also started giving priority to expanding and reworking stories for the added kanji (including some Heisig stories as well as well) over learning new ones. After about a year of finishing the first volume I ended up with repetition counts as >>10432961さん, so it must be just the matter of time.