/jp/ - Otaku Culture

The proven best method of memorization is repetition. My suggestion is to buy sheets of kanji paper and write out the kanji you wish to memorize until it fills up the paper and each time say out loud its pronunciation.

It's slow, it's annoying, but it's proven effective.

I can't read a single glyph of Japanese sorry

>>10270447
>but I'm realizing that it's a bit silly to do that without knowing how to pronounce them as well

It's not. You can learn readings through vocabulary. There's nothing wrong with that method.

>>10271221
But then why wouldn't he just learn the vocabulary instead.

>>10271230
>>10268173

>>10271230

To help getting used to the squigglys of course.

>>10271230
If he can do that, great. But kanji are very difficult for most people and it benefits them to learn them separately. Otherwise it's just a bunch of random squiggly lines that you're going to write hundreds of times until they stick into your head. It will also make vocab easier because the kanji used will not be as abstract.

>>10270447
Do mnemonics for each kanji, use kanji damage as inspiration.
But just for the onyomi, which will help you knowing how to read words you don't yet.
The kunyomi you will memorize naturally.

After you learn them, play computer games with furigana.

Honestly I think learning readings at the same time as meanings is a waste of time. Once you get to vocabulary, you're not going to just be able to pronounce words. The most that you can do is guess. You'll still have to learn which readings are used in which words and probably learn readings you didn't know yet, especially if you only memorized on-yomi, because you won't know any kun-yomi readings. So if you skipped learning readings at first, you'll get the readings while learning vocabulary and save yourself time. If you learn the readings first it's like you have to learn them twice, I think.

Learn words, not readings of characters. When you learned English, you learned that "ceiling" has a soft c and "car" has a hard c. You didn't start with only the alphabet and go through all the different sounds each one can make before learning a single word.

>>10271310
Japanese isn't the same as English, comrade. Kanji is not an alphabet.

>>10271296
You say it like it's hard and take a lot of time to learn the readings.
Just making sentences about Genghis Khan will make you learn the reading of almost half of every kanji you'll ever see.

昌, pronounced 「しょう」. You're welcome.

>>10271326
You're just complicating the mnemonics you're using. I don't see the point. Besides what use is to know that 人 can be pronounced　-り if you don't have a word for it? You're not going to know when it's pronounced -り or when it's pronounced じん or whatever when you see a word, you'll still have to learn it then.

Why is 「上がる」 such an asshole word with over 40 definitions for different contexts?

>>10271317
And if you think for a second (I know it's difficult for you) you'll realize that the difference supports my point.

>>10271345
You can substitute にん for -り if you want since the first is on-yomi.

>>10271353
Why are you so bad at Japanese?

>>10271375
I'm not. I have 7321 words up my sleeve you nerdmaster. And I read LNs on a daily basis.

>>10271359
No it doesn't. You're wrong on this. Not even Japanese people learn it the way your are advocating.

>>10271361
Actually scratch that, the example works better if you mix on and kun because jukugo can use either.

Learning the readings individually is a waste of time. Just focus on learning a shitload of words and you'll pick up on the readings naturally.

Start with the simple words, like say, 「学生」 and 「先生」. Doesn't matter if you don't know the billion different readings for 「生」 by heart, because just by learning these two simple words, you already know that one of the on-yomi 「セイ」, and as you encounter more complex words, like 「発生」, you already know that the latter part is probably read 「セイ」 as well.

The same principle works with longer, more complex words.
At first glance, a word like 「都道府県」 might seem impossible to approach for a beginner, but if you already know simple words like 「政府」,　「都市」,　「道路」 and 「県立」, it should be no problem.

>>10271345
I'm not talking about learning every reading, most of them are useless.
But almost every kanji has one useful on and one useful kun. This is valid for almost useful kanji.

A lot of them don't even have an useful kun, for example 魔, that you only need to know it's pronounced as ま to be able to read every word word that has it.
Kanji like 人 is just an exception and there are very few of them.

If you don't learn the readings I don't know how you will manage to read words like 清涼飲料水

>>10271430
If there are only few readings that are useful then it seems like it would be easier to just learn the readings in vocab and then you will not accidentally waste time learning readings you won't need.

>>10271437
But knowing the readings beforehand will make it easier to memorize the vocab.

>>10271444
Not by much.

>>10271430
清涼飲料水

Well let's see. I already know the readings for 「清」 from「清潔」, 「涼」 from 「納涼」, 「飲」 from 「飲酒」, 「料」 from 「料理」, 「水」 from 水曜日」, put them all together and you get 「せいりょういんりょうすい」, so yeah, it's no problem at all.

>>10271478
Isn't is a lot faster to just remember せい、りょう、いん、りょう and すい?

>>10271478

I already knew all of the readings by heart, so I was able to read the whole thing instantly. I'm just saying it's a lot more time consuming and frustrating to try to memorize the individual on-yomi for all 2000+ 常用漢字 than to expose yourself to as many Japanese words as possible and acquiring the readings naturally.

>>10271503
But from learning the words he typed you will learn those readings. That's the point of what we're saying. If you learn the words you will learn the readings. You don't have to go through each word you know to get them.

>>10271527
How am I supposed to learn them naturally? It still seems much easier to use the RTK or KD techniques to learn them and then just get used to it.

If you're going to learn pronunciation, learn the entire words that they are used in. Only learn its pronunciation if it's seriously just sitting there, alone.

I learned how to pronounce a bunch of kanji but now it's kind of a pain in the ass because I'm learning how they're actually used too. Fuck!

While I don't want to learn all of the readings this way, would it be a good idea to make like 5 onyomi mnemonics and go through them kanjidamage style for the most frequent readings? According to this chart I found on koohii, the ショウ reading is shared by 67 characters,　コウ　－　65、　シ　－　49、　カン　－　47、　トウ　－　42. And it gradually goes down from there. So just by making 5 mnemonics one could nail 270 characters.

Also, someone here once recommended memorizing those pure group things found in chapter 2 of rtk2. It basically means that if some jouyo has a certain (group of) radical(s), then it will have a certain reading. But not vice versa. Pic related, highlighted it in blue because the charts look terrible. Should one bother? The groups are pretty small, but going through vocab while knowing the readings from before feels great. I'm also afraid of making a set rule for myself like this, then encountering a non-jouyo in the wild and confusing the readings.

How to read Japanese:

1. Complete RTK1
2. Complete Tae Kim's Grammar Guide
3. Complete Core 2000 (and 6000 if you wish) Anki decks for vocab, sentences, and listening practice. OR
3. Start reading and add words manually, but you will have more trouble this way, as you'll have to add several thousand cards yourself and such. But some people are impatient!

Now you can read Japanese.

>>10271578
>as you'll have to add several thousand cards yourself

By this I mean the cards that you would already have pre-made in the Core decks.

>>10271549
>How am I supposed to learn them naturally?
being born as japanese

>>10271549

Expose yourself to a shitload of Japanese and learn things as they come. Just yesterday I learned the word 「界隈」【かいわい】 as I was reading random shit online. This was the first time I'd seen the on-yomi 「ワイ」 for 「隈」. A couple of minutes ago I came across the same word again. And now that I'm talking to you about it, I'm pretty sure I will NEVER forget this reading, and the next time I encounter a 熟語 with 「隈」 in it, I'll know how to pronounce it.

This kind of thing happens all the time, and it's always satisfying.

What will you tell me next?
That you also don't learn how to hand write them?

>>10271578
Why does no one ever seem to recommend the CorePlus Deck?

>>10271615
Personally I prefer the Core 2000 and 6000 decks because

1. Eventually I want to stop grinding prebuilt decks and move on to reading and adding words that I come across. Personally I think 6,000 words is a good place to stop.
2. Core 2000 and 6000 decks have separate cards for the sentences and they have audio recordings already built in, so that you can get lots of reading and listening practice.

>>10271612

Learning how to handwrite them is a goddamn useless skill if your end-goal like me is just reading and listening comprehension.

>>10271627
The CorePlus also has sentences. Audio practice isn't really needed.

And you could always just make a seperate deck just for your VN/LN vocab, while still doing your CorePlus reps.

>>10271633
>just reading and listening comprehension.
You are literally a fag

>>10271653

Well, I don't plan on moving to Japan, so fuck it.

>>10271637
>The CorePlus also has sentences.

I know. But I would prefer they were separate.

>Audio practice isn't really needed.

For you, perhaps. If you have any interest in understanding spoken Japanese you will need listening practice.

>And you could always just make a seperate deck just for your VN/LN vocab, while still doing your CorePlus reps.

I'd rather not bother with duplicate cards.

>>10271633
Have fun trying to read calligraphy.

>>10271676
>>10271653

>people being elitist over someone's chosen method of learning the language

Every thread without fail.

>>10271674
As if listening to a single sentence for every word will help your listening practice by much, It's much more efficient to just DL an anime with jap subs and watch.

>>10271685
>method of learning the language
More like not learning the language

>>10271686
And besides it's not like Japanese uses fuckhard vowel slurs or anything like Arabic or some shit. It's more of a contextual thing.

>>10271686
6,000 sentences will certainly give you a lot of reading and listening practice.

Why are CorePlus users so pushy?

the sentences in the core decks are so basic that they don't really provide any comprehension benefit whatsoever

>>10271757
True.