/jp/ - Otaku Culture

Considering I never learned it, no.

probably

i got 40% right on todays set of review cards for vocab

no one knows how hard it is to be as stupid as me

I memorized multiplication tabled real easy, but I barely know Kajiji.

Why did they translate "multiplication tables" but not "kanji"?

In Japan, they call the multiplication tables "ninety-nines".

>>10268135
Are you just pretending to be retarded?

Best Cure

>>10268135
What would they translate it to? Chinese characters?

Memorizing individual kanji meanings or readings is useless.

Just memorize words.

>>10268148

>>10268154
Fatass

>>10268152
It'll get even more abstract if you do it that way, wait until you get to 10k words+

Does someone have that chart that gives you an outline of which precures to watch and in what order?

>>10268113
why is she the only one in that room with a weird hair color

fug i wish i could mindbreak her loli ass ;_;

>>10268152

The purpose of memorizing kanji is that they're like mnemonics though. It's easier to memorize words if you know the meanings and can develop little mnemonics for vocab based on the meanings of kanji that you already know.

>>10268173
>>10268152
Besides, it only takes you 2 months at most if you put down some time on it. It's fully possible to pull at least 50 kanji per day. As that's the amount I do with words.

>>10268152

Kanji, vocab, and grammar should be learned simultaneously.

Post your Anki stats for the month.

>>10268152

no

>>10268128
I do actually.

>>10268204

It takes you 14 fucking seconds to do a card? You're pathetic. Worthless. Loser. Absolute trash. Pathetic excuse for a human being. I hope that you die in your sleep tonight.

>>10268215
B-but that's because I browse /jp/ all the time between my reps...

>>10268217

I'm sorry for bullying you.

>>10268222
I love you too. I'mma change into my jammies and hit the bed after having worked so hard today! Goodnight anon.

I just started anki lately.. but i have a few questions. Just how do you just start with the symbols like that with learning what each stoke means ( which i guess is like the alphabet) Like how can i learn this if i don't know what each part of the symbol means? Also how so you read japanese? do the sentences start with I,He,she,they,etc? or is it backwards or something? I feel like i wont be able to learn this because just learning whole words without the basic a,b,c etc is fucking hard. are you guys learning the japanese alphabet before using anki or is that just how you learn it? Also im using heisigs member the kanji cards with anki, is that good? what other packs should i use after im done? (for grammar, sentence structure,etc)

>>10268259
without learning what each stroke means*

>>10268259
Also kanji is used with video games and vns, right? if someone could answer my questions, i would be really grateful because im confused at how i should go at this and how you can remember each kanji or read without knowing what each little symbol means in the kanji.

>>10268259

>do the sentences start with I,He,she,they,etc? or is it backwards or something?

Japanese is an SOV language so sentences are structured as subject-object-verb instead of the normal subject-verb-object that we use in English.

SVO: Dogs eat feces.
SOV: Dogs feces eat.

>>10268281
So how do you read that normally? do you have to read it in sov then turn it into svo in your head every time while reading vns,etc? Also if you could explian how to learn each little symbol and what it means in a word (kanji) i would be happy. cuz i dont get it. do the little strokes or symbols in each kanji even mean anything? are the strokes the alphabet? like is , lets say - (which means one in kanji,i know but) would that mean a or b,c in a kanji?

>>10268299
or the symbol 形, does the 3 strokes on the right mean anything? are they letters?

象, this too, is each little symbol in the kanji a letter? or did you guys not care and just learned the words without caring about how they form? Also can i learn grammar and vocab on anki? what decks are good? can i learn sentence structure sov (too on anki?) if i could get some answers to my questions >>10268299
>>10268259
>>10268304
I would be able to understand japanese more.. so please..

>>10268281
Japanese students will tell you that Japanese, on the other hand, while frothing at the mouth, is completely backwards!! Even some Japanese teacher might tell you that the basic Japanese sentence order is [Subject] [Object] [Verb]. This is a classic example of trying to fit Japanese into an English-based type of thinking. Of course, we all know (right?) that the real order of the fundamental Japanese sentence is: [Verb]. Anything else that comes before the verb doesn't have to come in any particular order and nothing more than the verb is required to make a complete sentence. In addition, the verb must always come at the end. That's the whole point of even having particles so that they can identify what grammatical function a word serves no matter where it is in the sentence. In fact, nothing will stop us from making a sentence with [Object] [Subject] [Verb] or just [Object] [Verb]. The following sentences are all complete and correct because the verb is at the end of the sentence.

Grammatically complete and correctly ordered sentences

私は公園でお弁当を食べた。
公園で私はお弁当を食べた。
お弁当を私は公園で食べた。
弁当を食べた。
食べた。

fine guys... be that way.. I just needed some questions i had cleared up..

>>10268299

It's best not to think too much about why a kanji character looks a certain way. The various symbols inside of any specific character do mean things, but it's so abstract that it's not worth paying any attention to why it looks like that. Just look at the meaning then make up some mnemonic or find some other way to burn a connection between the appearance of the character and its meaning into your mind.

Just memorize the meanings of kanji and start to learn vocab. Just knowing the meanings of a bunch of kanji characters is worthless on its own, but once you start to learn vocab then you will see little connections between the meanings of characters and the words that they're used in and that will help you remember.

>>10268328
Read this http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/grammar/ from the beginning. Learn hiragana/katakana. Don't stress over such things. Everything will come out naturally, anon.

>>10268331
But too remember basically 3000 pictures without knowing the meaning of how they are formed....
It sounds impossible.
If you could could you give me tips on what decks to use with anki? like if heisigs remember the kanji is good? can i use anki to learn vocab? and grimmer,sov? Also too repeat my other question, do you guys have too "shift" the words in your mind from sov too svo to make it sounds right?

>>10268165
You don't think green is a weird hair color?

>>10268341
1 - Learn the hiragana and katakana.
2 - Read Tae Kim's grammar guide. Remember to review things you don't really remember. Use it for when you get stuck into strange sentences.
3 - Use www.kanji-damage.com or RTK to learn the kanji. Learn 2000. If you want to, learn 3000.
4 - Go through those core vocab decks.
4* - Immerse yourself within japanese.

>>10268343
There's no green hair in that image

>>10268348
Wait so i should learn hiragana and katakana first, not kanji? are vns in hiragana and katakana at all? does learning hiragana and katakana first make it easier to learn kanji or do they have no relation what so ever?

>>10268348
Also which vocab decks should i use? any of them on anki? is Tae Kim's grammar guide on anki?

>>10268352
All the way to the left, guy in a orange shirt. Are you fucking blind?

>>10268353
Hiragana and katakana is like the basic part of japanese. Katakana is used to write western words mostly, and hiragana you will see together with kanji. It also has a huge grammatical purpose. For example, you're reading a manga, and then a strange kanji you've never seen before or you've forgotten pops up. You notice some small hiragana characters by it's side. You just write them with a japanese keyboard and the kanji will pop up. When you write in a japanese keyboard, everything will show up as hiragana, or katakana, if you switch modes. But if you press the spacebar once, the first kanji readings will show up. if you keep pressing the spacebar, you'll see more and more kanji possibilities for that sound. For example, あさｰ>朝ｰ>麻ー＞厚狭

>>10268348
Alright i found a deck of both hiragana and katakana, are they usually learned together? And i found Tae Kim's grammar and anki and japanese vocab

>>10268359
I don't know exactly, since I'm still on kanji. But I've heard that one of the good vocab decks is related to JLPT, and there are some other vocab decks called core-something.

>>10268374
yeah its called core 2000 japanese vocabulary. and also thanks, ill follow your steps.

So with kanji don't worry about the strokes or symbols? just basically keep remembering what they look like as a whole? id that what everybody did hear? like with 形 again, if you see the 3 lines again in another kanji or the other symbol, wouldn't knowing what it means help you know the words? what do the 3 lines on the right side by them self mean anyway?

>>10268353
Yes, hiragana and katakana are the first things you should learn and memorize. Katakana is mainly used as pronunciation of foreign words (for example ice cream would be romanized as aisu kuriimu, which would be spelled in katakana: アイスクリーム)

There are usually many ways to read a kanji character.
水 - water
the traditional japanese pronunciation of kanji is usually given in hiragana: みず ( romanized as mizu)
pronunciation that is derived from chinese is usually given in katakana: スイ (romanized as sui)

Kanji can have many pronunciations, so it can get confusing. Learn the hiragana/katakana first, then learn some grammatical structures. After that you can start replacing parts in sentences with kanji.
わたしはこうこうせいです。this sentence is completely in hiragana
romanization: watashi wa koukousei desu.
english: i am a high school student.

The same sentence using kanji:
私は高校生です。

>>10268395
So does わたしはこうこうせいです。 and 私は高校生です。 have no relation at all? are they basically two whole different languages? which one is more used in vns? kanji or hiragana? is the grammar and vocab the same for all 3 languages?

>>10268395
Also thank you for explaining all this.. how long did it take you?

hiragana is letter and kanji is full words. you mix them up however you want cuz jap is dumb.

>>10268403
Everyday use of Japanese always uses kanji. Hiragana is like a helping hand that tells you how to pronounce the kanji. I guess you can compare it to like the alphabet in a way. There are a handful of hiragana and katakana, just like there are 26 letters in the alphabet. But there are thousands of kanji.

So yeah, using kanji in japanese would be like the "final" form. You will never see わたしはこうこうせいです。in VNs/magazine/news. It will be as 私は高校生です.
In that sentence,
わたし is 私 (watashi, I)
こうこうせい is 高校生 (koukousei, high school student)
は (written as ha, spoken as wa) is a marker (read up on grammar usage and you will see what it does) so it isn't written in kanji. Usually only verbs and nouns are written in kanji.
です (desu) is used to end a sentence, so it also doesn't really have a meaning. (there are many forms, and this is the polite form)

>>10268403
kanji are typically used along with hiragana in stuff that literate japanese people would be reading, including VNs.

>have no relation at all?
they are the same, but the first one would be in a children's book while the second one is normal.
>are they basically two whole different languages?
no, everything you can say with kanji can also be said with hiragana (although not vice-versa). kanji is more or less unnecessary beyond shortening sentence length (as far as i know). i think that's why some people are trying to abolish the use of kanji altogether (won't happen).
>which one is more used in vns
both
>is the grammar and vocab the same for all 3 languages?
yes. the norm is using kanji when possible with hiragana to fill in the other stuff (sentence particles like は, です, verb endings, etc). katakana is typically used for loanwords, like the stuff they borrow from english. it's not uncommon to see stuff like GAY-MU = GEE-MU = ゲーム used to refer to a game (gay-moo).

im not the guy you're responding to, though. and i also am only reading at an elementary level.

>>10268437
>>10268439
thanks guys im kinda starting to understand now. though the Hiragana being the alphabet in the kani is a little confusing for me to understand.. I hope the janitor keeps this thread because i might have more questions through the week.

>>10268415
Not that long, since it's relatively basic japanese.

Also kanji are composed of radicals that help give a hint as to what the meaning is. For example, look at these expressions:
泳ぐ (verb, to swim)
海 (noun, ocean)
洗濯機 (noun, washing machine)
All three have the 3 strokes on the left side. That is the radical for water, 水. Notice that all the expressions share something with water. You can use radicals to get an idea of what the meaning is.

>>10268486
Sorry, for the washing machine example, i only mean the first character.

>>10268486
when do you learn radicals? when you learn grammar?

>>10268534
when you're learning kanji and whatever's teaching it to you says "hey look this thing has the same radicals as that thing. they look kinda similar so you can remember easier"
radicals don't really matter.

the first thing you need to do is memorize the hiragana perfectly. after that, you can read simple things and you can start grinding kanji and slowly picking up grammar. maybe someone else has suggestions for where to learn basic grammar rules, but i haven't found shit. i just try to absorb it as i go.

>>10268562
Are you using anki for kanji,vocab,grammar?

are we being retarded again and telling people to grind vocab before they learn grammar or start reading? please stop doing this. it isn't nice.

>>10268534
Japanese classes (beginning) will usually teach like this every week:
1. give you some vocab (probably mostly in hiragana at first since it's easier) to memorize
2. tell you to memorize 10-ish kanji and write them down several times (with the correct stroke order)
3. teach some grammar structure
4. give you a short article at the end that uses everything you learned that week
5. of course, give some kind of test/quiz

You can probably use that plan to self-teach yourself if that helps. There are also a lot of useful links in the thread that will help too.

Usually they don't focus too much on the radicals (i wasn't told to memorize the radicals), but when you're learning kanji they will have the main radical in the description of the kanji so you know what it is. And I guess it isn't that important because, as people have said, you can come up with your own pneumonics that probably work better for you.

>>10268584
i was using anki for kanji, but i have found kanjidamage to be more useful.
this guy >>10268594 is right, though. you really need to understand basic sentence structure and some grammar rules before worrying about kanji at all.

That poor girl in the back of OPs picture...I know her feels. Completed RTK 1 and 3 in around 5-6 months doing 20 new Kanji a day. I've heard others finish in 2 to 3 months...oh well at least I finished memorizing a bit over 3000 Kanji.

On the plus side I'm 1548 translated sentences in of a pack of 8000 lol...

I have no motivation to finish learning kanji. How do you guys keep motivated after say the first 100-200?

>>10268872

I beat myself. It is the way of the monk.

When I feel my motivation going away then I grab the belt and start whipping my back as hard as I can. I scream and I cry while I do it, but I know that this is developing the discipline that is needed to learn the language I wish to learn.

I have dislocated my jaw from punching myself, my back is covered in scars, there are scars on my forehead from bashing my head into objects, but I have learned Japanese.

>>10268886
that sounds more like a flagellant than a monk, you know

I finished RTK1 in 2.5 months, so no it didn't. I can pick up new ones very quickly too since I learned Heisig primitives.

>>10268196
Not necessarily. If that works for you, great, but dividing things up is fine.

I set a kanji guide as my desktop background. Now I can read kanji and remember which VNs icon was next to that symbol.

>>10268872
Just remember that if you put in some effort everyday, you will finish. I thought that I would never be able to learn the jouyou kanji, it seemed like such a monumental task to learn 2,100+. But I worked at it everyday and gradually wore them out and finished.

>>10268872
I just ask myself why I'm learning Japanese in the first place and usually that's motivation enough for me.

If you're getting burned out maybe you should cut back a bit? Instead of doing like 50 a day do 20 a day until you get out of your rut. Worst thing you can do is just quit altogether. If you end up picking it up again in the future you may need to start all over if you forgot everything. Learning a bit at a time is always better than nothing.

>>10268929
It might also be a good idea for him to just step back for a few days. When I hit around 400 kanji I just felt really overwhelmed with the task and quit. After about a week I realized I didn't want to give up and went back to it reinvigorated and finished.

so recently I've been reading some VNs like grisaia albeit very slowly, it takes so much out of me that I can only read a scene or too before getting physically exhausted, this doesn't happen just with grisais but with pretty much everything in japanese, how can I change this and make it fun to read like the good old days?

and I'm having troubles with light novels any easy ones you guys recommend to practice on?

OP's picture smells like crayon just a little bit.

>>10268154
Best cure

i have question

does と regularly mean "with?" i know it means "and" as in [noun と noun], but i saw a sentence [verb と noun] translated as [verb with noun].

>>10270295

LOL!!!

と

look like a benis in a sock
woohhhhh

>>10270417
hahaha

>>10270295
Keep reading Tae Kim's guide. と can be used like as a "if" for natural consequences. For example,　学校に行きませんと友達が会いません.
If you don't go to school, you won't meet your friend. (with context applied).

>>10270295
It has various uses. It can be used as a conditional aswell.

i.e. [Condition] と [Result]

>>10269085
Any suggestions for either problem?

>>10270435
Is it a grammar problem or a vocab problem? For increasing reading speed you'll just have to work on those.

took me 30 years

>>10270443
it just feels like if a sentence is too long or I hit some kind of a stop the whole sentence falls apart and I have to focus on it and re read over and over until it makes sense, it's probably just something I have to get used to but I honestly don't know if it's grammar or vocab problem.

Is there some kind of intermediate grammar guide out there I can work on?

>>10270466
I have that problem all the time with the に particle. I know exactly what it is supposed to do, but when I see it inside a big sentence I have no fucking idea what it is about, and teh sentence falls apart ;_;

>>10270466
>it just feels like if a sentence is too long or I hit some kind of a stop the whole sentence falls apart and I have to focus on it and re read over and over until it makes sense

Like I expected. Everyone is like that in the beginning stage, to better yourself you'll just either have to go through more advanced grammatical concepts indepth, or keep on reading easier things.

As after all, Japanese is a pretty abstract language, in terms of word usage at times, because of how contextual it is. Knowing what the word means in different contexts is a must.

You could make use of the intermediate to advanced section on Tae Kim. Make sure you make notes for the rules, so as you can review them at any given time easier.

Another tip would be to go through translated LNs, and attempting translation yourself and comparing yours to the TLed one. It helped me a lot.

no, i love kanji and have fun working on my handwriting

>>10270509
What LNs would you recommend, I'm looking for some easy ones to try

I was always told that using translations was the worst thing you could do but I guess it wont hurt to try

>>10270466
like in english just break it up into clauses or unital elements.

multiple-highlighters might work for visually making it less intimidating,

>>10270525
It's more as to see how everything gets put together, and why things are translated like they are.

It also helps you see how different the language is at times, and how much of it gets left out in English translation and why it is pulled out of the equation.

I did translations of Kino No Tabi, and it was fairly easy. At least for me.

Another good tip would be: >>10270550

I still don't have the multiplication memorization, I'm not sure about reading clocks, I think I'm fairly accurate with those.

Kanji are easy for me though.

>>10270558
Thanks for the suggestion, I'm just always apprehensive about English translations because I'm afraid I'll just take that translation and not learn anything from it, just parroting it because I saw it translated that way not understanding what it really means or putting it into practice,

I've gotten halfway through learning the Hiragana. For learning, I use Tae Kim's Guide to Learning Japanese along with Namasensei's Japanese Lessons.

I am currently at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4c4OcwrNE8

There's a thing in the video that I'd love to clear up: Is the only difference between i-adjectives and na-adjectives that na-adjectives use a 'na' after the adjective?

Example:
>i-adjective
Kawaii /jp/ desu
>na-adjective
Kirei na /jp/ desu

Thank you!

>>10270737
na-adj. can directly modify a noun by sticking 「な」 to it. i-adj. doesn't have to do this.

>>10270776
I think I understand it now, thanks.

>>10270737
The way you conjugate forms and tenses differs between them both too.

>>10268113
No. But I'm not a lazy piece of shit either.
It did however take me twice as long as everyone else to learn the difference between ツシ and all other lookalike niggers.
kanjis is ez
katagaytana is bullshit

>>10268886
I think this might be first time in my life I've actually literally felt gay for somebody.

>>10268113
Yes with everything else too. Being in class learning kanji is quite difficult no matter what you do or how long it takes though.

It's spelt "memorise".

>>10273983

fug off britain

we use Z in american

>>10275397
Fuck yeah. Z for life.

I have been playing Touhou for over three years and I still haven't 1cc a game on normal.

>>10275397
>>10275415
It's pronounced Zed, you baka.

>>10275477

I don't see an E or a D in the letter Z. It's just Z.

What do you say when you see a Zebra? Zedbra? That sounds retarded.

>>10275477
ZEEEEEEEEEE

>>10275422
Don't worry, you're not alone ;_;

>>10275422
See that bomb button? Press it. People have literally done runs on some games where they do not dodge a single bullet in a single spellcard, they just bomb them all, just to prove a point.

>>10275505
it's pronounced zedebra